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BamaYankee
04-05-2012, 08:55 AM
So, all of a sudden, my daughter Willa (9 in June) has taken an interest in baseball. I'm thrilled! She asked me to play catch with her a couple of weeks ago, and It was like the "Field of Dreams" moment when Kevin Costner asked his ghost dad for a catch. For a week she used her brother's RHT glove on her left hand and threw with her right until I got here a lefty glove. Went to the cages and she got the bat on the ball more often than I thought she would.

She studies ballet. And she is good. Long and lean, several instructors have pulled me aside and told me she has the stuff to be a great dancer. What I have found is how easy it is to give her instruction, especially movement. Never seen a kid learn to crow-hop as fast as she did. "Oh, Dad. It is the same as a pas de chat!" "Uh...yeah! I guess so." :)

So her goal is to practice through the summer and she will decide if she wants to play fall baseball. I am sure she will be the only girl in our league not playing softball. The wife is a little concerned about her starting at the player pitch level, but I think she will get up to speed soon enough.

Ethan is cool with it. With baseball being "his thing" I was a worried about possible conflict of world's colliding but I think he will be happy to have her play catch with. I tried to talk him into the ballet lessons for the conditioning and coordination, (and hey, tons of chicks-right?), but that isn't on his radar yet.

Anyway, thought I would share. It is going to be a fun season. If any of you Dads out there had a daughter choose baseball, let me know your experience.

Kings over Queens
04-05-2012, 09:02 AM
Mine played softball for a season or two and gave it up for Dance. I'm not surprised that your daughter's dance ability has helped her on the diamond. Athletic is athletic, right.

I wish my son would entertain the idea of taking up dance. It would help him in so many ways, but as far as he's concerned, just the mere thought of dance will make him gay.

Thanks for sharing your story Bama. Enjoy!

Jake Patterson
04-05-2012, 09:10 AM
So, all of a sudden, my daughter Willa (9 in June) has taken an interest in baseball. I'm thrilled! She asked me to play catch with her a couple of weeks ago, and It was like the "Field of Dreams" moment when Kevin Costner asked his ghost dad for a catch. For a week she used her brother's RHT glove on her left hand and threw with her right until I got here a lefty glove. Went to the cages and she got the bat on the ball more often than I thought she would.

She studies ballet. And she is good. Long and lean, several instructors have pulled me aside and told me she has the stuff to be a great dancer. What I have found is how easy it is to give her instruction, especially movement. Never seen a kid learn to crow-hop as fast as she did. "Oh, Dad. It is the same as a pas de chat!" "Uh...yeah! I guess so." :)

So her goal is to practice through the summer and she will decide if she wants to play fall baseball. I am sure she will be the only girl in our league not playing softball. The wife is a little concerned about her starting at the player pitch level, but I think she will get up to speed soon enough.

Ethan is cool with it. With baseball being "his thing" I was a worried about possible conflict of world's colliding but I think he will be happy to have her play catch with. I tried to talk him into the ballet lessons for the conditioning and coordination, (and hey, tons of chicks-right?), but that isn't on his radar yet.

Anyway, thought I would share. It is going to be a fun season. If any of you Dads out there had a daughter choose baseball, let me know your experience.
Thanks for sharing... I have two sons, but coached girls basketball for 11+ years...

leecemark
04-05-2012, 09:42 AM
--I have 2 granddaughters, ages 7 and 9, playing Little League. Last year at 6 and 8 they played T-ball and coach pitch, rspectively, and both and there were other girls on their teams. This year they are both playing kid pitch (the younger one is actually the more serious about baseball) and will be the only girls on the team. If they continue they will probably move to softball with the other girls next year, but at this age there isn't much difference in the athletic ability of boys and girls. The younger girl was the best player on her tee ball team and the older one about average on the coach pitch team. If your daughter wants to play she should definately have the opportunity.

tradosaurus
04-05-2012, 10:06 AM
As a father of 5 girls and 4 boys I find it personally offensive when girls are allowed to play in boy's league. What is being proved by allowing this?

I noticed last year in my son's 12U tournament play that a girl was playing and it was joke.

Fortunately I don't see any girls at the 13U level and hopefully never will.

Kings over Queens
04-05-2012, 10:11 AM
Good Lord man, tie a knot in it already. :laugh:

There was a girl on one of the teams when we were at Cooperstown last summer. It was strange.

I wouldn't let my daughter play baseball at that age, and if the league put a girl on my team I'd coach her, but it would be difficult.

tradosaurus
04-05-2012, 11:15 AM
I was going for 10 kids but I heard every 10th person in the world was Chinese and I didn't want a Chinese kid. :rockon:

Roothog66
04-05-2012, 01:32 PM
As a father of 5 girls and 4 boys I find it personally offensive when girls are allowed to play in boy's league. What is being proved by allowing this?

I noticed last year in my son's 12U tournament play that a girl was playing and it was joke.

Fortunately I don't see any girls at the 13U level and hopefully never will.

I just got back from the USSSA Spring Nationals where one of the best teams in the country (12maj) had a girl playing short and leading off. She was, by a fairly wide margin, the best shortstop I've seen at that age. She turned two dp's on my team and made a fantastic play on a first and third double steal, where she cut the ball off, made a behind the back tag of R1 and threw R3 out at the plate. She also went 3 for 3 at the plate in a 7-0 win. I'm a believer.

tradosaurus
04-05-2012, 02:13 PM
I just got back from the USSSA Spring Nationals where one of the best teams in the country (12maj) had a girl playing short and leading off. She was, by a fairly wide margin, the best shortstop I've seen at that age. She turned two dp's on my team and made a fantastic play on a first and third double steal, where she cut the ball off, made a behind the back tag of R1 and threw R3 out at the plate. She also went 3 for 3 at the plate in a 7-0 win. I'm a believer.

Believer in what?

BamaYankee
04-05-2012, 02:21 PM
As a father of 5 girls and 4 boys I find it personally offensive when girls are allowed to play in boy's league. What is being proved by allowing this?

I noticed last year in my son's 12U tournament play that a girl was playing and it was joke.

Fortunately I don't see any girls at the 13U level and hopefully never will.

Offensive? Really? How do you feel about the uncoordinated fat kids playing ball. Equally offended? Should they be separated, too? Geez.

I don't see a lot of difference between boys and girls at that age. I am not interested in her shattering gender sterotypes, either. I am glad she has an appreciation for the game, she should try it while she still can and at the end of the day I will be totally satisfied if when she grows up, she will sit beside her old man, drink a beer with me and watch a game on TV.

roga danar
04-05-2012, 02:21 PM
Believer in what?

Talent Is Overrated: What Really Separates World-Class Performers from Everybody Else
by Geoff Colvin

tradosaurus
04-05-2012, 03:17 PM
Talent Is Overrated: What Really Separates World-Class Performers from Everybody Else
by Geoff Colvin

The problem with society is that girls grow up to think they can act and perform like men. They grow up confused and disoriented and the divorce rate keeps increasing because there is no defined gender roles in the marriage.

How many women play in the NFL, NBA, MLB? Oh that's right, none because they can't compete at that level!

So why set up a young girl for failure?

leecemark
04-05-2012, 03:28 PM
--The vast majority of boys aren't going to play MLB either. Most of them are going to be done with organized ball before high school. Are they failures too? The purpose of youth sports is not to develop future pros. It is primarily to have fun. Learning something about the game and how to be part of a team should also be a priority. These are things that benefit both boys and girls. They will take up separate pursuits on their own soon enough.

BamaYankee
04-05-2012, 03:32 PM
--the vast majority of boys aren't going to play mlb either. Most of them are going to be done with organized ball before high school. Are they failures too? The purpose of youth sports is not to develop future pros. It is primarily to have fun. Learning something about the game and how to be part of a team should also be a priority. These are things that benefit both boys and girls. They will take up separate pursuits on their own soon enough.

thank you!

Kings over Queens
04-05-2012, 03:36 PM
--The vast majority of boys aren't going to play MLB either. Most of them are going to be done with organized ball before high school. Are they failures too? The purpose of youth sports is not to develop future pros. It is primarily to have fun. Learning something about the game and how to be part of a team should also be a priority. These are things that benefit both boys and girls. They will take up separate pursuits on their own soon enough.Would you feel the same if a boy wanted to play on a girls softball team?

leecemark
04-05-2012, 03:56 PM
--Little League has not been an all boys league for 40 years or more. As a matter of principle I would be fine with a boy playing in a girls softball league for ages below puberty, after which a boys size and strength are generally going to be an unfair advantage. As a practical matter a boy joining an all girls league would probably find the teasing from other boys to be a negative outweighing the positives he might get from being on the team.

songtitle
04-05-2012, 04:02 PM
I saw a boy play SS on a girls fast pitch team (maybe 12U). The parents were morons threatening to sue everyone if he was teased, etc.

tg643
04-05-2012, 04:48 PM
I don't have an issue with girls playing baseball. There are two reasons why I wouldn't do it. 1) The best part of playing youth sports is hanging with your friends. While the girls I saw play baseball were accepted by the boys, they weren't really friends. 2) In middle school the boys start catching up to the girls physically. By high school the boys have passed the girls. If a girl aspires to play high school softball, the best way is to play softball. Baseball and softball are not the same game.

My daughter was a girly girl at an early age. We had her in gymnastics for an activity. Her athleticism was obvious. At age seven she asked to play soccer, basketball and softball since her friends would be playing. The first time she threw, caught or hit a softball was the night before her first practice. That night she suggested maybe going out in the yard might prevent her looking stupid at the first practice.

When my daughter was in high school the baseball and softball team played each other for charity. The girls pitched and played defense on the softball field. The boys pitched and played defense on the baseball field. The girls won. 65 mph underhand from forty feet and a riseball was more than the boys could handle.

My daughter's reaction to hitting baseball pitching, "You have all day to decide whether or not to swing" compared to softball. She was accustomed to a lot of 60-65 mph in travel. From forty feet it's similar to 100 mph from 60 feet. The baseball pitchers were at 80-85

Jake Patterson
04-05-2012, 04:59 PM
The problem with society is that girls grow up to think they can act and perform like men. They grow up confused and disoriented and the divorce rate keeps increasing because there is no defined gender roles in the marriage.

How many women play in the NFL, NBA, MLB? Oh that's right, none because they can't compete at that level!

So why set up a young girl for failure?Some of the best soldiers I ever had the privaledge of serving with were females... I don't think they would agree with you.

The Flush
04-05-2012, 06:16 PM
There have been girls on my son's all-star teams the last 2 years. Last year our best catcher was a girl and she could knock the snot out of the ball. After seeing here play ball in the summer, it was weird to see her as a cheerleader in the fall. She has moved on the softball this year, while the other one is playing soccer (and she is great at it) instead of baseball.

leecemark
04-06-2012, 07:02 AM
--Your wife is free to make her own choices, but your previous comments have been about limiting the choices of women. You also made several offensive comments about women serving our country. Clay should have made his complaint about you via the "report post" function, but he was not wrong about the nature of your posts. They were unacceptable for this site. You may disagree all you wish, but please keep your posts civil and respectfull.

roga danar
04-06-2012, 08:21 AM
--Your wife is free to make her own choices,....

Excellent response lee

Choice. Trado's problem is choice.

clayadams
04-06-2012, 11:22 AM
WOW, OMG... Trado's comments are allowed to stay but mine aren't. Nice to know where the board owners stand on the issue of sexism! The least you could have done is leave my completely separate post to the OP alive.

To the OP, enjoy the time spent with your daughter. That's what this is about. Whether she plays softball or baseball, you've found a common link for your relationship to grow.

shake-n-bake
04-06-2012, 11:48 AM
I'd find it surprising that your daughter's commitment to dance allows for much time to take on baseball seriously enough to play on par with boys for very long. My daughter's 11. She's a beast, and I mean that affectionately. Very good softball and basketball and volleyball player. She got involved with competitive cheer about a year and a half ago. They take that stuff real serious. Right now is her official brief off season and she goes to conditioning classes 2 days a week that are for all intent and purpose mandatory. I've always been of the impression dance and gymnastics were similar in nature also.

tg643
04-06-2012, 12:13 PM
WOW, OMG... Trado's comments are allowed to stay but mine aren't. Nice to know where the board owners stand on the issue of sexism! The least you could have done is leave my completely separate post to the OP alive.

To the OP, enjoy the time spent with your daughter. That's what this is about. Whether she plays softball or baseball, you've found a common link for your relationship to grow.
Any post linked to Trade's offensive post that was deleted went down with it. I lost one too. It's the way links work. If the source is deleted everything connected goes too.

tg643
04-06-2012, 12:20 PM
Private message from Trade to me: You've been brainwashed by the feminist movement. How many boys can get pregnant at 14?

My response: I am a man. I don't need to subjugate women to feel good about myself. I coexist quite well in partnership. We still manage to maintain our personal masculinity and femininity. My daughter did not get pregnant at fourteen or any other age up to twenty-three. Rather than think for her, I raised to to think for herself and be responsible and accountable for her decisions and actions. She is very capable of taking care of herself. She graduated from college PBK while playing a college sport. She now interns for one of the most prestigious law firms in the world before heading off to a prestigious law school. I trust her judgement in men. Her boyfriend, who I expect her to marry after law school is a great guy.

clayadams
04-06-2012, 01:08 PM
Any post linked to Trade's offensive post that was deleted went down with it. I lost one too. It's the way links work. If the source is deleted everything connected goes too.

I beg to differ. His post is still there.

Megunticook
04-06-2012, 01:15 PM
I find it personally offensive when girls are allowed to play in boy's league.

Wow. Aren't we in the 21st Century now?

Next thing I'm going to read on this board is that it's offensive that women are allowed to vote, or own property, or choose their husband. I guess they should stay barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen.

BamaYankee
04-06-2012, 01:29 PM
I'd find it surprising that your daughter's commitment to dance allows for much time to take on baseball seriously enough to play on par with boys for very long. My daughter's 11. She's a beast, and I mean that affectionately. Very good softball and basketball and volleyball player. She got involved with competitive cheer about a year and a half ago. They take that stuff real serious. Right now is her official brief off season and she goes to conditioning classes 2 days a week that are for all intent and purpose mandatory. I've always been of the impression dance and gymnastics were similar in nature also.

Yeah, she's 8 turning 9, and not a member of the company yet. It is twice a week for her at 1.5 hrs at a time. At 11, she will be able to join the company, and then they start to really work. People would be surprised how many hours a day the jr high and high school practice their craft.

Jake Patterson
04-06-2012, 02:07 PM
The problem with society is that girls grow up to think they can act and perform like men. First. this "the" problem??? WTH? Second, Why not let them grow up thinking they should act like just.... people??
Why the distinction? Last, the divorce rate is going down - you should do your research.

They grow up confused and disoriented and the divorce rate keeps increasing because there is no defined gender roles in the marriage. I had 4 sisters none grew up confused or disorientated... They played sports, got their MBA's and three of them own/ed their own businesses and make - well ... lots.


How many women play in the NFL, NBA, MLB? Oh that's right, none because they can't compete at that level!
So why set up a young girl for failure?How many 5'4" men make it in the NFL? NBA? So once they are identified as being among the smallest we shouldn't let them play either??? Why set them up for failure??? And why is this falure - let them play until they run out of talent...

CandlestickBum
04-06-2012, 02:35 PM
First. this "the" problem??? WTH?

It's a recently popular usage, and drives me crazy, everyone is running around saying variations of this. "The" issue/problem/topic dejure is..........

In that vein:

THE most apt quote for this thread is:
"Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt"

Chris O'Leary
04-06-2012, 03:31 PM
I'm not sure about the cross-over between baseball/softball and ballet, other than strength and athleticism, but there is a huge cross-over between ballet and soccer. The year some of my girls went up on point, their leg strength went way up and suddenly they could kick the heck out of the ball.

BamaYankee
04-06-2012, 09:04 PM
I'm not sure about the cross-over between baseball/softball and ballet, other than strength and athleticism, but there is a huge cross-over between ballet and soccer. The year some of my girls went up on point, their leg strength went way up and suddenly they could kick the heck out of the ball.

Well, my daughter can understand instruction in relation to movement, especially with the feet. I don't know for sure if it is the ballet training-- I think it is. Maybe she is just really damn smart instead.:rockon: My example earlier was the crow hop. I told her once what I wanted to her to do, and she nailed it first time. Easy for her because it is pretty close to a ballet move she does in class. Later at the cages she showed off again with keeping her feet in line at the plate. I can't quite describe it but the boys I have coached haven't picked up on things quite as quickly.

Chris O'Leary
04-06-2012, 09:49 PM
Well, my daughter can understand instruction in relation to movement, especially with the feet. I don't know for sure if it is the ballet training-- I think it is. Maybe she is just really damn smart instead.:rockon: My example earlier was the crow hop. I told her once what I wanted to her to do, and she nailed it first time. Easy for her because it is pretty close to a ballet move she does in class. Later at the cages she showed off again with keeping her feet in line at the plate. I can't quite describe it but the boys I have coached haven't picked up on things quite as quickly.

This is the mark of a visual learner and a (really) good athlete; they have a direct connection between their eyes and their bodies.

People mock me for saying that I told Torres, "See this? Do this," but that's exactly how it worked.

I never really saw it with my older son, but I've seen it in my younger son; his baseball footwork is very advanced (and seemingly innate) and he can pick up a soccer moves very quickly just by watching clips of good players.

OnTheBench
04-06-2012, 11:59 PM
As the dad of a girl who started playing in kindergarten and is still doing so in eighth grade (14s, tryouts are tomorrow), I would say to go for it if it looks like her skill level will put her in the middle of the pack or better on her team. We have not had to deal with any issues with her male teammates or their parents since she has always been a solid contributor on all the teams she has been on, but I could see it being a problem if her skills put her near the bottom. I will also say that it has probably helped that my daughter started playing in kindergarten so it has always been that she was just one of the kids. Your daughter's situation may be different since she will be starting at a later age. If fall ball in Alabama is like it is here (more developmental/recreational than summer ball) then that is definitely the time to try it to see how it goes. For us it has been a great experience.

clayadams
04-07-2012, 12:27 AM
I love reading stories like this "OnTheBench" and the OP. I don't think guys like Trado realize just what kind of relationship having such a strong bond over something develops with your daughter. I always supported her dancing, always went to her competitions and recitals. However, I had nothing to teach her, all I could do was watch and be proud. With something like this, we can develop an unbreakable bond. Some of it would still be there with softball, but not to the extent it is with baseball. Thanks for posting OTB. :)

Ursa Major
04-07-2012, 01:38 AM
Coupla thoughts here:

First, to Bama, I've helped coach my niece (who plays 10u softball), and agree that the footwork and hip movement of dance really shortcuts the teaching process.

Reminds of a story of a girl who was one of the few playing in our 9-10 league a few years back; she was very graceful but hadn't played at all before and it took awhile to raise her game, but she was clearly by the middle of her second year one of the better infielders. In the playoffs, the team ran out of pitchers and brought her in to close a tight game. She pitched from the stretch, starting with her hands at her sides and bringing them up with straight elbows until her hands met straight above her head, then she bent her elbows to bring her hands straight down and threw. I'm sure there's a technical ballet term for that movement. After a few pitches, I turned to a body and muttered, "I bet she's had some ballet training". Directly in front of me, a woman who bore a remarkable resemblance to the girl (i.e., obviously her mother) turned to me and in a voice dripping with icicles said, "Actually, she hasn't." Awwwwwkward! She got the first two hitters and finished off the game with a K, and her all-male group of comrades rushed the mound to crush her with congratulations. And I'm sure every one of them -- when faced with attitudes like Tradasaurus' in sports or school or business -- will think back to that moment, or another like it. If we believe - as I do and most folks do - that sports are important because the prepare us for a life where we have to learn teamwork skills for the second most important part of our life (behind family life), isn't it important that we learn how to deal with females as equals? After all, unless you're going to be a monk or a member of Augusta National, you're going to be working with women. And, by the way, she stayed in the league as an above-average player for two more years and, even if she didn't continue on, derived all the benefits of baseball that her male colleagues had and then some, because she'd done it in a milieu dominated by guys.

Three years ago, Ursa Minor played on a 15u summer team that played a couple of games against a largely inner-city, African-American squad that had a slightly chunky young woman on the team. I noticed in warm-ups that her teammates were civil to her but consciously were testing her by throwing the ball as hard as they could to her, and she got each heat-seeker without fuss or complaint. She was the starting catcher and did well, and then came in to close. She struck out two - including Ursa Minor - to end the game, and as we walked back to the car and talked about the game, I kept my ears open for any sign that he was embarassed to be whiffed "by a girl". When he talked about that at-bat, he lamented his failure to have a good approach to the AB but didn't mention a word about her gender, and it's pretty clear that it didn't factor into his feelings about his disappoingment. I was actually pretty proud of him.

As far as strong women leading to a higher divorce rate... well, that's the biggest load of crap I've heard in a long time. (And, if it did, I'm guessing it's attributable to women who finally had the courage to walk out on misogynistic and abusive jerks.) I'm sure it was an overbearing wife that caused Arkansas Coach Bobby Petrino to hire and bonk a 25-year old assistant behind his wife's back. :shrug: And if you're going to pull this cause & effect down to the case of a girl deciding that she wants to play baseball with boys? Pleeeeze....

tg643
04-07-2012, 09:30 AM
I love reading stories like this "OnTheBench" and the OP. I don't think guys like Trado realize just what kind of relationship having such a strong bond over something develops with your daughter. I always supported her dancing, always went to her competitions and recitals. However, I had nothing to teach her, all I could do was watch and be proud. With something like this, we can develop an unbreakable bond. Some of it would still be there with softball, but not to the extent it is with baseball. Thanks for posting OTB. :)

From all the time my daughter and I spent in the car on weekends traveling to and from travel softball tournaments I was far closer to my daughter than a typical dad. There was very little she wouldn't discuss with me. She called from the hotel Friday night of her first college softball roadtrip. She said when she got on the charter bus she thought of the years of getting in the car with me and all the talks.

I heavily recommend if a girl is still a good baseball player by 7th grade and wants to play through high school, she makes the switch to softball. Startng in 7th grade, for the next three years the boys shoot past the girls physically.

tg643
04-07-2012, 09:33 AM
Ursa ... Trade is from East Santorum TX. You head east out of Dallas about one hundred years. You'll find it on the far right of the road.

shake-n-bake
04-07-2012, 02:30 PM
I can easily see a girl coming from dance/ballet, or gymnastics, or skating, or cheer being a natural in most other youth sports. The athletic ability necessary is mind blowing. The willingness to make the personal commitment to working toward perfection is a norm. Girls seem to gravitate to what they are truly passionate about. It'd be very rare to hear a complaint from a coach that a girl involved in these sports wasn't all in. We see it all the time in the most traditional boys' sports.

The coaches are tough on the girls. Not mean, but really push in an encouraging way because they know the girls are so devoted. High expectations are common. A lot of us would cry foul about a youth baseball program that demanded so much from a boy. We're talking about taking on a lifestyle. Not to mention girls from these type of backgrounds are used to being center stage. Confidence runs really high here. I don't think it's an "I'm out to prove something" thing.

It's just a matter of physically staying on par with the boys which eventually will come to an end. That and the sports I mentioned require a tremendous amount of sacrifice. School, a little time with friends, and basically everything else devoted to perfection. Gets increasingly more difficult to squeeze in another interest requiring them to be present at specified times.

JCincy
04-07-2012, 03:00 PM
Some dance styles and gymnastics heavily emphasize core strengthening and elasticity. This type of training would benefit the athletes of many types of sports: baseball/softball, football, volleyball, soccer, etc... regardless of gender.

tradosaurus
04-07-2012, 08:21 PM
Wow. Aren't we in the 21st Century now?

Next thing I'm going to read on this board is that it's offensive that women are allowed to vote, or own property, or choose their husband. I guess they should stay barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen.

You said, I didn't. :dance

Roothog66
04-08-2012, 10:44 AM
I don't think you can overlook a very good point that Ursa was making. Let's admit it, to succeed in the workplace, most women have to deal with an environment that is male dominated. I think a girls deciding to stick with baseball and showing what it takes to succeed could be a strong indicator of someone who is going to go far in life. My own daughter played one year of baseball at the 8yo level where she dominated, but decided the next year that she "didn't want to play with boys." It was somewhat disappointing to me. I had started recruiting to put together an all-girl 9u team. A couple of years later, she really doesn't care much for sports, which kills Mom (a high school All-American softball and basketball player). Her passion is now Irish Dance. If you've ever been to one of those competitions, you'd understand how much I wish she'd stayed with baseball!

tg643
04-08-2012, 12:23 PM
You said, I didn't. :dance

Trade's posts should come with the same disclaimer as the backside of the point spread gambling cards ... For entertainment purposes only.

The Glovedoctor
04-08-2012, 09:13 PM
My wife operates a very large dance studio with a ballet foundation (Royal Academy of Dance syllabus). I can tell you that the girls there don't practice, they train. The serious ones take probably 10 classes a week, and they are all exceptional athletes. Females are different, yes - but to say they are not at a males level are ridiculous. Females can do amazing things with their bodies (please, keep it clean). Playing baseball is not conventional for women, but I invite everyone to google LSU's Mo Isom - a fantastic womans soccer player who is very capable of being on the Tiger football team. It's not likely to happen, but she is capable and it is a possibility.

Anyway, my point is - respect the ladies.

OnTheBench
04-08-2012, 10:58 PM
I heavily recommend if a girl is still a good baseball player by 7th grade and wants to play through high school, she makes the switch to softball. Startng in 7th grade, for the next three years the boys shoot past the girls physically.

I would agree that 7th grade is about right. My 8th grade daughter is starting that transition this spring. About 2 months ago she decided she wanted to try out for the high school softball team and made varsity so we are just beginning the process of juggling both sports this week. Fortunately the high school softball season ends about the same time that league play begins in baseball. I suspect that this may be her last year in baseball, which is kind of sad after all these years, but it is probably time. I do think she is capable of making our high school's freshman B team next year based on her size and skill level as well as the likely pool of boys trying out. In this regard, she's 5' 10" and doesn't swing or throw like the vast majority of the softball players I've seen. That came from a lot of hard work on her part to develop her skills using information taught to her from a variety of sources including what I have learned reading this forum. Nevertheless, she knows she doesn't have a chance of making the sophomore team after that so my feeling is that her transition to softball will be complete next year. Our community does have a high school in-house rec baseball league so maybe she will continue there but her competitive baseball days are probably coming to an end.

Ursa Major
04-09-2012, 12:53 AM
I don't think you can overlook a very good point that Ursa was making. Let's admit it, to succeed in the workplace, most women have to deal with an environment that is male dominated. I think a girls deciding to stick with baseball and showing what it takes to succeed could be a strong indicator of someone who is going to go far in life. My own daughter played one year of baseball at the 8yo level where she dominated, but decided the next year that she "didn't want to play with boys." It was somewhat disappointing to me. I had started recruiting to put together an all-girl 9u team. A couple of years later, she really doesn't care much for sports, which kills Mom (a high school All-American softball and basketball player). Her passion is now Irish Dance. If you've ever been to one of those competitions, you'd understand how much I wish she'd stayed with baseball!Yeah, there's a reason that there's a TV series called "Dance Moms" and NOT one called "Baseball Dads." Those Moms would make us look like Quakers by comparison when it comes to overzealousness and self-delusion.

But I appreciate your picking up on the learning lessons that come with co-education in sports. At some point, every kid will have to learn to deal with women in a competitive (i.e., workplace) environment. The sooner that the boys can fully adjust to treating women as equals and comrades (or superiors), the easier it will be to excel in that environment.

Yes, it would be nice if more girls could stay with baseball through high school, but their self-interest dictates that they move over to softball at some point. A cousin's daughter was an all-star catcher with the boys' teams through elementary and middle school, but ultimately realized that she'd topped out at 5'3" at age 12, and the boys were surpassing her. But the toughness developed in the boys game served her well in softball. And she did avoid one recurring problem - umpires insisting that she wear a protective cup when behind the plate.

tradosaurus
04-09-2012, 06:03 AM
My wife operates a very large dance studio with a ballet foundation (Royal Academy of Dance syllabus). I can tell you that the girls there don't practice, they train. The serious ones take probably 10 classes a week, and they are all exceptional athletes. Females are different, yes - but to say they are not at a males level are ridiculous. Females can do amazing things with their bodies (please, keep it clean). Playing baseball is not conventional for women, but I invite everyone to google LSU's Mo Isom - a fantastic womans soccer player who is very capable of being on the Tiger football team. It's not likely to happen, but she is capable and it is a possibility.

Anyway, my point is - respect the ladies.

"We reviewed her skill, the things she can do and do well," Miles said at his post practice press briefing. "We kind of felt like there's four guys on the team right now that would be ahead of anybody that tried out the other day, including Mo. I told her that today.

She could never make a major Div 1A football powerhouse. Coach Miles let her try out, I would bet, only to minimize any criticism had he told her to pound salt.

I wonder if motherhood could be considered a career? :cap: Because that is what my four daughters are aspiring to acheive.

Jake Patterson
04-09-2012, 08:00 AM
I wonder if motherhood could be considered a career? I feel there is a bigger problem in this country with fatherhood than motherhood...

I would consider it one of the most noble jobs on earth, but it's only a part of what a person can become...

BamaYankee
04-09-2012, 08:34 AM
I feel there is a bigger problem in this country with fatherhood than motherhood...

I would consider it one of the most noble jobs on earth, but it's only a part of what a person can become...

Yep. This is very true.

Megunticook
04-09-2012, 09:16 AM
I wonder if motherhood could be considered a career? :cap: Because that is what my four daughters are aspiring to acheive.
Being a Mom is the most important "career" there is. Pains me to see a woman dismissed or pitied because she's "just a stay at home mom." What job in the world is more valuable than that?

At the same time, if a woman decides she wants to play baseball, or become a firefighter, or a corporate CEO, or even President of the U.S.A., I say more power to her, have at it. Doesn't offend me in the least.

clayadams
04-09-2012, 10:08 AM
There are absolutely zero issues with a woman choosing to be a stay at home mom. My wife is and I'm proud of her. The PROBLEM is that men are rarely men anymore. So let me ask you Trado, when one of your daughters' husbands leaves her and her kids (statistics certainly lean towards it happening), what have you done to train her in order to take on the world? Or have you successfully trained them to be nothing but mindless slaves to men, only taught to "obey". Personally, my daughter will be taught to take care of herself. Baseball is a wonderful life lesson. Softball may be in her future some day, maybe not. For now, she loves playing baseball, she's pretty dang good at it, so I'm happy to help her be her best at whatever she chooses.

tg643
04-09-2012, 03:04 PM
I would agree that 7th grade is about right. My 8th grade daughter is starting that transition this spring. About 2 months ago she decided she wanted to try out for the high school softball team and made varsity so we are just beginning the process of juggling both sports this week. Fortunately the high school softball season ends about the same time that league play begins in baseball. I suspect that this may be her last year in baseball, which is kind of sad after all these years, but it is probably time. I do think she is capable of making our high school's freshman B team next year based on her size and skill level as well as the likely pool of boys trying out. In this regard, she's 5' 10" and doesn't swing or throw like the vast majority of the softball players I've seen. That came from a lot of hard work on her part to develop her skills using information taught to her from a variety of sources including what I have learned reading this forum. Nevertheless, she knows she doesn't have a chance of making the sophomore team after that so my feeling is that her transition to softball will be complete next year. Our community does have a high school in-house rec baseball league so maybe she will continue there but her competitive baseball days are probably coming to an end.

There has been a transition the past few years with softball hitters from linear to rotational. It's been aided by the college and 18U Gold ASA pitching distance beong moved back three feet to 43 feet. My daughter is six years removcd from high school. I don't know the current high school pitching distance.

My daughter hit left and was fast. Some people told me I should make her a slapper. Not knowing better I taught her rotational and how to bunt. It had her ahead of the pack.

It is important to learn the quick release of a softball player versus a baseball throw. The game is fast given it's on a small field.

Jake Patterson
04-09-2012, 03:32 PM
If we can't stay on topic I'll shut the thread down. I feel both sides are at such a different point WRT to the subject that further discussion is fruitless.

Cannonball
04-09-2012, 07:02 PM
First to Bama Yankee, I understand your daughter wants to play baseball but to be honest, I'd have her make the move to softball if you think softball is something that might be in her future. If she has as much talent as I think she might have, find a good travel ball team and allow her the opportunity to develop friendships that will last a lifetime. My daughter is playing college softball. She was blessed to get on a great travel ball team where she has those friendships. In fact, last night when she went back to college, one of her travel ball teammates was waiting at her college apartment to spend the night. My daughter would never change any of that.

tradosaurus, I hope and pray that your daughters meet men who treat them right. My family makes it no secret that we are strong in our faith. I sometimes think that positions such as you support are based upon at least a portion of that belief system. Still, that does not mean that a woman's place in the home is to be a servant to the man. When you speak of roles, both the man and woman have so many roles that I don't think there is a "traditional" place in the home anymore. My wife and I will celebrate our 29th anniversary the 23rd of this month. We are a partnership. We have also raised our daughter to stand up for herself. When she eventually gets married, I am sure that she will look for a Christian man who treats her as an equal and not subservient.

Per you statment about athletic abilities. At 13 or 14, my daughter could have started on our freshman baseball team. She was better than at least 2 or 3 starters. I know that because she attending every baseball clinic I gave until after her 14 birthday. After that, she went to softball clinics. She could hit balls off our varsity field fence at 14. She threw better than most of the boys. She hit with wood most of her life and hit baseballs in practice instead of softballs off of a ATEC Rookie machine set up at 35 feet. At 14, she was 5'8" tall and could box squat 175 lbs. She squatted 185 as a freshman and now squats 200+. In the weight room, she can put many of the boys to shame. Sure by the time the boys were sophomores they passed her up. I won't disagree that by her senior year, those boys were better at every phase of baseball. Still, none of them could hit her when she pitched and believe me, they tried. The age the OP is dealing with is in that area where the boys are just beginning to develop and pass the girls. I know that there are many who would argue that the Baylor team that just won the National Championship could not beat a boy's high school varsity basketball team. I'm betting that there are several boy's varsity basketball teams in this country that they could beat. JMHO!

clayadams
04-09-2012, 08:33 PM
I just wanted to post a quick little tid bit from "my world". For many years I was a motorcycle road racer. It's male dominated just like every top tier sport. There are a few female road racers, but they never make it to the top... until now. Last month the first female in the history of road racing won at Daytona, one of the biggest races in the US.

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=47601

Now, I know what some of you are thinking... this is nothing like a "physical" sport like baseball. Make no mistake, this has zero comparison with racing of the 4-wheeled variety. Motorcycle racers are some of the most fit athletes on the planet. Any pro racer's routine would put any pro baseball player's routine to absolute shame. I'm not joking and I'm not exaggerating. The amount of physical exhaustion you go through to throw a 400lb motorcycle around for 30+ minutes is insane. I liken it to sprinting as hard as you can, while stopping to dead lift 200lbs, throw it down and sprint again. The only break you get is while going down the straights. Every muscle in your body changes what the motorcycle does. I remember one time while racing in the GA heat (it was 94 degrees that day and 70% humidity) and as I pulled into my pit at race end, I fell over and passed out from exhaustion. Anyhow, I just wanted to post this up for the OP and everyone else to show that females are capable of some amazing things when given the chance. Elena is a pro rider, meaning she gets paid to race. I've been watching her since she was 12 and I'll fully admit, she'd hand me my tail on my best of days. I also know that she's one of the most polite, well mannered, women I've ever had the chance to meet.

johnlanza
04-10-2012, 06:50 AM
Maybe it's just me, but I think this thread has just derailed....


Edited with the following:
Just thought I'd mention that my comment above was not in response to clayadams comments.
I think the post that prompted me to write my comment may have been deleted by a moderator...

BamaYankee
04-10-2012, 07:02 AM
Maybe it's just me, but I think this thread has just derailed....

Yep. I appreciate your insights and encouragements. I think I am most happy that she is developing an interest in the game of baseball. If she feels confident enough in the fall to try it, then great. If she just wants to go see our minor league team play with her dad then that is pretty cool, too.