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View Full Version : Better defensively: Machado vs. Lawrie



George H Ruth
09-03-2013, 01:09 PM
If we take defensive metrics in to account - who's had the better season defensively between Machado and Lawrie?

I'm still learning about metrics, so if you can back it up some good metrics that would be useful for me. Thanks.

leewileyfan
09-04-2013, 10:49 AM
FWIW: Here's how my metric evaluates Machado and Lawrie for 2013 thus far:

Player...........Innings.............Rating....... .....Defense Runs>AVG 3B........Adj. Runs, Playing Time

Machado........1,214............... .987 ............... + 7.6 .......................... 7.56
Lawrie........... 686............... .960 ............... + 1.9 .......................... 0.66

leewileyfan
09-04-2013, 11:02 AM
If we further adjust for team pitching staff K's vs. LG, both players are adjusted down a bit:

Machado's staff = -12 K's below LG staff average goes from +7.56 to +7.4.

Lawrie's staff = -92 " " " " " goes from +0.66 to - 0.5.

Both are net for playing time to date.

Tyrus4189Cobb
09-04-2013, 11:11 AM
Your best bet is to use fangraphs if you're looking to use metrics. Based on that, I'd give it to Machado who has 30 Defensive Runs Saved (DRS) and 26.8 Ultimate Zone Rating (UZR) compared to Lawrie's 6 DRS and 1.3 UZR. By these measures, Machado is successfully fielding many more balls above the average third baseman, converting these to outs and thus preventing runs. Lawrie on the other hand is simply above average.

How familiar are you with DRS and UZR? Some differences exist between the two metrics. When someone is so vastly ahead of another, it is clear that Machado is the superior defender.

http://www.fangraphs.com/library/defense/drs/

http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/john_dewan_and_research_assistant_speak/#3

leewileyfan
09-04-2013, 03:52 PM
Your best bet is to use fangraphs if you're looking to use metrics. Based on that, I'd give it to Machado who has 30 Defensive Runs Saved (DRS) and 26.8 Ultimate Zone Rating (UZR) compared to Lawrie's 6 DRS and 1.3 UZR. By these measures, Machado is successfully fielding many more balls above the average third baseman, converting these to outs and thus preventing runs. Lawrie on the other hand is simply above average.

If one looks to the links provided, the first outlines the favored metric outline of defensive skill levels, ranging from +15 DR [Gold Glove quality], through +10 [Great], on down through -15 {Awful]. In light of your own post, Machado [+26.8 DR] looks like 2 times Gold Glove level; and the lesser Lawrie at +6 DR, playing only 55% of his team's innings, comes off between Above Average and Great.

The first link also cautions against rating a player until he has three years of play to average out. Some careers last barely three years; especially great glove, no hit guys, who become moot by that caveat. I do not believe it is unreasonable for a fan to expect a defense metric to be more focused and flexible than that. I would argue that a solid metric can do that, unconcerned with up-and-down performance volatility. Performance variations can and do happen, especially in narrow career expectations, wher 20 years is an extraordinary accomplishment, and seven or less is closer to average.

Since Gold Glove Awards have lost much credibility, how come GG rates higher than GREAT?

The second link reads like a lengthy rationalism for UZR; and its major emphasis is what UZR does NOT connote.

If year-to-year UZR numbers mean ONLY UZR values and are not to be interpreted as markers for player value and performance, what added info is there for the inquisitive fan.

I'd suggest that fans starting out in evaluating defense metrics be guided by their own observations, then sort through the data, determining that [those] which comport best with their own evidence.


:How familiar are you with DRS and UZR? Some differences exist between the two metrics. When someone is so vastly ahead of another, it is clear that Machado is the superior defender.

This awards default status for truth to DRS and UZR. See above.


:http://www.fangraphs.com/library/defense/drs/

http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/john_dewan_and_research_assistant_speak/#3

See comments above.