Dr. Frank Jobe - HOF ?

[hammy]

I recently heard an interview with Tommy John, a worthy HOF candidate in his own right, where he said that he was surprised that Dr. Frank Jobe had not been given more serious consideration for the Baseball HOF. Having thought about it, it does make some sense. If you look at off the field contributions, Dr. Jobe's elbow-ligament transplant (aka Tommy John) surgery has changed the game in dramatic fashion. I'm new to this site and would be interested to hear feedback on your feelings about Dr. Jobe being considered as a HOF'er.

[Eddie Collins]

Interesting point. I don't anyone would mind seeing him in.

[J W]

I dunno about inducting him through the composite ballot, but I don't see why the Hall can't set up a little exhibit detailing his accomplishment. Heck, if Abbott and Costello are in there...

...speaking of which, I second Macker in that I don't think it's fair giving the composite ballot to the VC players. Not turning in any ballot I think is a shirking of responsibility; but these guys don't get the BBWAA process to go through. With these conditions, we will never see another manager, ump, or executive get a bust in the Hall, much less a physician! Make it a seperate process with some sort of seperate committee, and do it soon, that's what I say.

[mikey_s]

Undoubtably he added years to the careers of many players. But his research and work have cause players, owners, agents, and managers from MLB to the little leagues to change or at least look hard at their development philosophy. Most development based coaches ( who know something) won't permit their young pitchers to throw curves, before they reach a physical maturity, and warn kids of the dangers from the sinker and other pitches. He pioneered the benefit of long toss, the development of mechanics, training, strengthening and rehab exercises and so on and so on.
Don't forket Jobe is like amillion years old ( doesn't actually do the surgery anymore...) and started his research into the medical side of BB many years ago.

I think he has made a HUGE contribution in a completely positive fashion as opposed to some member (bowie!!). If you don't feel anybody but players should be there then it doesn't matter. But otherwise....

[mikey_s]

The work this guy has done has CHANGED the way BB is played and coached from little league to the major leagues.

Once again if you don't feel non-players should be in I understand (don't necessarily agree...) but the point is once pandora's box is opened and Bill mazeroski was admitted a whole group of Non-famers became eligible. I can with malice say that Dr. Jobe's contribution to BB was significantly greater than Bill Mazeroski's (and I like Maz!!)

[Imapotato]

I think he made a great contribution to the game of Baseball, and should have a small exhibit showing how much.

Does that mean he is "in" the HOF, about as much as Abbott and Costello as someone pointed out...but that's a good thing.

[mikey_s]

Coaching, training and strengthening changes were made as a result of the research and documented proof of the effects of pitching on the players arms. A surgical technique doesn't sprout out of someones arse!!!

Do you think that the geniuses who manage this game give a flying potato about the players health?? Well they do now.

Look I am not going to document the minute of his work. If there is someone's opinion you value (other than your own) talk it over with them. Look into the history of sports injuries and his contribution in specific. I am not going to convince you of anything since I have no credability with you. So talk it over with some one you know and trust see if you can't get a different perspective on it. ............... not like either of us have a vote or anything.... ;)

[Cougar]

Dr. Jobe has improved the health of probably thousands of people. Although the surgery was invented in the context of baseball, it has transcended the game itself. There's not a whole lot of other people in the baseball world that can be said about.

At the same time, there are All-Star and perhaps even HOF caliber pitchers (Tommy John, John Smoltz, Mariano Rivera, Kerry Wood, ) whose careers would have been shortened or perhaps never even started without this revolutionary physician.

Contributor to the game. Uh, yeah, not even a close call. He belongs in the HOF; his presence would improve the place.

[mikey_s]

Regardless of the fact that he has made a fortune off these overpaid bums I REALLY appreciate the trickle down or Spin-off results of his work: To wit. We don't have thousands (tens of thousands) of kids with scrapped arms because they think the best road to the bigs is with a screwy deliver/pitch.

The kids coming up now (I think we will see a lot more) have better mechanics, conditioning and have been kept away from throwing curves. Fastballs don't ruin an arm (not as often) as curves being thrown by 12 year old and sliders being thrown by anybody!!!

[hammy]

Batting gloves, maple bats, air travel were either enhancements or public works actions that baseball used to augment performance or convenience. LTS saved careers, and we will soon (5-7 years) be seeing the first group of players that LTS saved become HOF candidates (Rivera, Smoltz). Tommy John himself should be a HOF'er already. I happen to believe there is a place in the HOF for the Marvin Millers and Frank Jobes of the baseball world, but I also agree that a permamant exhibit would be a good idea as well.

[Brad Harris]

It wasn't too long ago that someone (SI?) ran an article asking who, besides Tommy John, has ever had a successful career of note after "Tommy John" surgery....

Wood and Smoltz are the only others I might point to. (When the heck did Mariano Rivera undergo LTS?)

I seem to recall that John, himself, was something of a co-contributor to the pioneering surgery in terms of determining what to transplant and where. I might be way off on that, but wouldn't that mean Jobe shares credit for "inventing" the surgery with John?

Furthermore...I am really interested, after reading these posts, in learning more about the long-term impact that Jobe has had on the game. If it's a big enough (and direct enough) impact, then Jobe most certainly deserves to be credited with induction.

Very interesting question though. I would think the safe bet - in the meantime - would be to honor his achievements with an exhibit of some kind. Naturally, this would lead to educating the public about Jobe's credentials (as a possible Hall of Fame candidate).

[mikey_s]

Originally posted by Chancellor
It wasn't too long ago that someone (SI?) ran an article asking who, besides Tommy John, has ever had a successful career of note after "Tommy John" surgery....

Wood and Smoltz are the only others I might point to. (When the heck did Mariano Rivera undergo LTS?)

I seem to recall that John, himself, was something of a co-contributor to the pioneering surgery in terms of determining what to transplant and where. I might be way off on that, but wouldn't that mean Jobe shares credit for "inventing" the surgery with John?

Furthermore...I am really interested, after reading these posts, in learning more about the long-term impact that Jobe has had on the game. If it's a big enough (and direct enough) impact, then Jobe most certainly deserves to be credited with induction.

Very interesting question though. I would think the safe bet - in the meantime - would be to honor his achievements with an exhibit of some kind. Naturally, this would lead to educating the public about Jobe's credentials (as a possible Hall of Fame candidate).

One of the more "tangible" results of Jobes work has been the development of a special set of shoulder exercises wich develops the muscles that support the rotator cuff and reduce the chance of injuries. Typically our shoulder capsule is not "evenly" developed. Some muscles are stronger and the basic tenet (as I understand it) is that you need the muscles that you use in moving the arm/shoulder/body part of you choice, in one direction to be balanced with the muscles that move it in the other direction. I suspect that through the rehabilitation of shoulder surgeries these set of execises called ....... the Jobe exercises are known and practiced by all/most pitchers in MLB. Perhaps the exercises have been around for years? (or maybe some were developed by Jobe/his team) But the COMBINATION and application of these exercises is the point. Never mind the careers he has "saved" through surgery. How about the careers he saved through PREVENTION...... Hard to measure..... maybe there are stats on pitcher burnout... longevity by decade .... something that may/maynot (as stats are quite subjective) support the assumption.

[Cougar]

Originally posted by Chancellor
When the heck did Mariano Rivera undergo LTS?


Sometime in the first half of the 90's, before he ever made the bigs. He didn't have his breakout season until he was 25, so it must have been at a fairly young age, like Kerry Wood or Billy Koch.

[Captain Cold Nose]

Anyone know offhand who "invented" arthoscopic surgery?

[MudvilleMike]

I'd have to vote no on Jobe. The contribution to baseball has to be more direct than this. A variety of physicians and scientists have made discoveries that have benefited baseball players. The same could be said of inventors and many others.

I could be persuased otherwise, but at this point I'm far from convinced.

[Fuzzy Bear]

I think the HOF could recognize Frank Jobe in any number of ways without inducting him. Some have suggested an exhibit on sports medicine, which is an idea. Another might be a section of the library on sports medicine, which could be named after Jobe.

I'm super-critical of anyone other than managers being inducted; their accomplishments have to be super-special. Just being a good GM for 10 years doesn't put you in the HOF, in my opinion.

[KCGHOST]

I'm with Fuzzy. Give them an exhibit or create some kind of wing like they did for writers. Actually I like Jobe in the HoF better than managers. At least I know he did something besides ride good horses.

[Big_Mac]

for all of the pitchers careers he has prolonged and players who are still prolonging their careers with his surgery, yes, he deserves a place in the HOF.

[crzblue]

After attending the Baseball Reliquary event today where Dr. Frank Jobe was inducted into the Shrine of the Eternals _http://baseballreliquary.org _ I was wondering if there was a post here on Frank Jobe. I found it! I am of the opinion that the HOF should do something about him being honored. If not inducting him into the HOF then an exhibition deailing the TJ operations.

[chicagowhitesox1173]

I would say he was a well deserving contributer who should be in. I never even thought of him until I saw this post.

[Captain Cold Nose]

A nice exhibit on the third floor would do just fine.

[jjpm74]

A nice exhibit on the third floor would do just fine.

This. A picture of him, an explanation of the procedure, an explanation about what happened to a pitcher before the procedure existed in the corner somewhere would be more than enough.

Dr. Jobe doesn't belong in the HOF and his role in baseball is peripheral. WP. Kinsella, Jack Norworth, Albert von Tilzer, Ernest Thayer, and many others have made huge, but indirect and peripheral lasting contributions to baseball. That does not mean they should all be enshrined in Cooperstown.

[rsuriyop]

Exhibit yes. HOF plaque no.

[JR Hart]

I have no problem with hall inducting him or recognizing Jobe. But Dr Robert Kerlan, Jobe's mentor, derserves equal recogninition. Kerlan eventually became to arthritic to operate, and that's where Jobe stepped in. Kerlan was a pioneer in sports medicine.

[toomanyhatz]

For contributions to the game, I'd love to see him with a plaque. If the standards are, either playing the game exceptionally well, or changing how it was played, he certainly has the requisite qualifications for the latter.

[Macker]

If the standards are, either playing the game exceptionally well, or changing how it was played, he certainly has the requisite qualifications for the latter.
But he didn't change how the game was played. He merely helped players continue their careers. I'd put in Lena Blackburne before I'd even think of Jobe, and I wouldn't even put in Blackburne.

[toomanyhatz]

But he didn't change how the game was played. He merely helped players continue their careers. I'd put in Lena Blackburne before I'd even think of Jobe, and I wouldn't even put in Blackburne.

Fair enough, though he did change the game in the way that pitchers trained, and adding to careers had a lot to do with the 'specialization' of pitchers that became more minute after TJ surgery became a possibility. Not that everyone thinks that's a good thing, mind you. :shrug:

Much appreciate the mention of Blackburne, though, since it reminded me about his interesting story. The main difference between him and Jobe is that Jobe used his expertise in a way that had a profound effect on the game. Blackburne had a profound on the game too but it sounds more like he stumbled on something that worked- not by accident, but by good fortune. I suppose good fortune should be awarded too, so much of the game depends on it.

Eventually, there will be multiple pitchers in the Hall of Fame that owe their extended (and therefore HoF) careers in part to Jobe's work. That's probably the best argument for him to go in as a contributor.

[Macker]

If Jobe could take the mound and put up good stats until the injured pitchers return, he might have a case. Until then, maybe he can be put in a doctors hall of fame.