Best right fielder ever?

[538280]

The BBF all-time team so far:

C-Johnny Bench
2B-Rogers Hornsby

This one should be easy, who is the best right fielder ever?

Babe Ruth.

[64Cards]

The BBF all-time team so far:

C-Johnny Bench
2B-Rogers Hornsby

This one should be easy, who is the best right fielder ever?

Babe Ruth.
Yup.

Hammerin Hank, Frank Robby and Roberto were all superb players too.

[538280]

Yup.

Hammerin Hank, Frank Robby and Roberto were all superb players too.

Yes, but none of them are as good as Ruth, and I can't imagine anyone taking them over Ruth.

[MasonDixon]

There can only be one.

[julusnc]

George Herman "Babe" Ruth

[ElHalo]

1. Ruth
2. Aaron
3. Robinson
4. Ott
5. Ichiro
6. Crawford
7. Waner
8. Kaline
9. Heilmann
10. Klein
11. Keeler
12. Sosa
13. S. Rice
14. Cravath
15. V. Guerrero
16. Clemente
17. Rose
18. R. Jackson
19. Sheffield
20. O'Neill

Paul O'Neill's inclusion might just be a sentimental choice. Strong position; the first 18 all make my top 100 players.

[iPod]

Yikes, not a Clemente fan I see.

[The Dude]

Nor a Gwynn fan it seems.

[ElHalo]

Nor a Gwynn fan it seems.

I actually forgot about Gwynn. I always think he's a left fielder. He'd go around 13th.

[leecemark]

-The top 3 should be pretty clear cut for everyone, although somebody cast a bewildering vote for Clemente.
1. Ruth
2. Aaron
3. Robinson
4. Jackson
5. Ott
6. Crawford
7. Gwynn
8. Kaline
9. Clemente
10. Waner
11. Rose - a more valuable player than half the above, but only kind of a RF
12. Winfield
13. Sosa
14. Heilman
15. Oliva
16. Parker
17. Evans
18. Walker
19. Guerreo
20. Suzuki
--The last two are somewhat projected. They could easily climb higher or fall off the list altogether in the next couple years. This is an incredibly deep position. Honorable mentions; Thompson, Keeler, Craveth, Klein, Cuyler, Furillo, Colavito, Maris, Bonds and Sheffield and even with 30 players listed I'm sure I'm over looking someone who deserves mention.

[714 on beer and dogs]

try adding 99- 63 and a World Series record 45 year scoreless inning legacy.

[leecemark]

--How does what Ruth did on the mound make him a better rightfielder? If we're talking best player its fair (if a little tiresome) to bring up pitching. Doesn't apply when we are going by position.

[ElHalo]

Come on, Bill, Paul Waner? I'd take Gywnn, Sosa, Jackson, Kaline, and Dave Winfield, etc over Paul Waner. He's the opitime of overrated. When you put the phrases "high average hitter" and "played in the 1920s", that's the definition of overrated. :D


I'd take Waner over all of those guys, and Kaline is the only one who's even remotely close. People always underrate Big Poison.

[leecemark]

--At least by those who don't realize all the incredibly high BAs of the 20s and 30s really were just because so many great players were active then and not due to conditions :laugh :laugh :laugh .

[ElHalo]

--At least by those who don't realize all the incredibly high BAs of the 20s and 30s really were just because so many great players were active then and not due to conditions :laugh :laugh :laugh .

Waner hit 48 points above league average, which is certainly more than you can say of, say, Reggie Jackson.

[leecemark]

--The extra 400+ HR helps me get past the BA edge for Waner. A better modern comparison to Waner would be Gwynn. Tony and Paul were the same kind of player, but Gwynn was better and against better competition. I can't see any logical way to rate Waner ahead in that matchup.

[714 on beer and dogs]

--How does what Ruth did on the mound make him a better rightfielder? If we're talking best player its fair (if a little tiresome) to bring up pitching. Doesn't apply when we are going by position. cost him multiple wins.But are u serious ? Ruth spent 6 years as the best lefthander in baseball prior to his being THE BABE. Get your head out of your abacus and realize the truth

[ElHalo]

--The extra 400+ HR helps me get past the BA edge for Waner. A better modern comparison to Waner would be Gwynn. Tony and Paul were the same kind of player, but Gwynn was better and against better competition. I can't see any logical way to rate Waner ahead in that matchup.

The home run is such a sporadic event. You can't rely on it for offense, because it comes so infrequently. Even the very best HR's ever (I believe McGwire was most frequent) won't hit one more than once every three games. They're too infrequent to rely on for continuous offense, and I generally try and disregard them entirely. Well, not entirely, but to a large extent. I'm not saying I'd rather have 2 singles than a home run... but it's pretty damned close.

As to Waner / Gwynn, that's a no brainer. Waner has a better OPS+, Waner was top 10 in BB's 11 times to Gwynn's 1, Waner once led his league in RBI, Waner wins in 200 H seasons, etc., etc. Plus, half of Gwynn's career came against the worst league in arguably the history of baseball. That heavily discounts him, in my view.

[leecemark]

--What a player did at another position is of only minimal import for me when we are talking about the best by position. Babe is #1 without it anyway. Save that ammo for when we are talking about best player period.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

--At least by those who don't realize all the incredibly high BAs of the 20s and 30s really were just because so many great players were active then and not due to conditions :laugh :laugh :laugh .

As I said:

OVERRATED = "high average hitter" + "played in the 1920s" :laugh

[ElHalo]

As I said:

OVERRATED = "high average hitter" + "played in the 1920s" :laugh

Well, my definition of an overrated player is somebody with a low BA who played in the 70's and 80's, so I guess everyone has their quirks.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Well, my definition of an overrated player is somebody with a low BA who played in the 70's and 80's, so I guess everyone has their quirks.

No, You just copied me just to be contrary. :rolleyes:

Besides no one thinks the players from the 70s-80s are overrated. except for you I guess... :D

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Well, my definition of an overrated player is somebody with a low BA who played in the 70's and 80's, so I guess everyone has their quirks.

Hmmm...Lloyd Waner, Hafey, Bottomley Meusel, etc. Sound familiar. Let's just Babe Herman, Bob Meusel and Ken Keltner into the HOF while we are at it..

[ElHalo]

Hmmm...Lloyd Waner, Hafey, Bottomley Meusel, etc. Sound familiar. Let's just Babe Herman, Bob Meusel and Ken Keltner into the HOF while we are at it..

Well, somebody let Gary Carter, Kirby Puckett, and Tony Perez into the Hall of Fame, and the best that you can say about them is that they aren't as deserving as Chick Hafey. Throw in the fact that mediocre players with long careers like Robin Yount and Dave Winfield made the Hall, and I'd say, yup, it's pretty clear that 70's and 80's players are overrated.

[HDH]

1) Ruth
2) Aaron
3) Waner

Paul Waner is under-rated: If you believe his statistics are high because of the era he played, then you also should consider Ruth in that category as well. As an OF, he had great range and a great arm. On offense, he produced over 3000 hits, had a lifetime .333 ave, and rarely struck out; he was a good baserunner and scored over 100 runs 9 times; and was one of the all-time clutch hitters. As far as stolen bases go, the 1930s philosophy of baserunning did not promote base stealing. His brother, Lloyde, was considered the fastest man in baseball and stole single digit base totals. He was voted in the HOF by the original BBWAA whos selections were extremely strict especially compared with today's selections. If I were building a team, I would take him before Ruth and Aaron; There's no way Waner is below top 5.

[mordeci]

You had me until:

If I were building a team, I would take him before Ruth and Aaron.

[714 on beer and dogs]

You had me until:OK In get it , a player who hit 342 with 714 - 2200 plus as well as being the best lefthanded pitcher of his day is someone to dump

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Well, somebody let Gary Carter, Kirby Puckett, and Tony Perez into the Hall of Fame, and the best that you can say about them is that they aren't as deserving as Chick Hafey. Throw in the fact that mediocre players with long careers like Robin Yount and Dave Winfield made the Hall, and I'd say, yup, it's pretty clear that 70's and 80's players are overrated.

Chick Hafey? It's clear that our baseball views are in two different universes... :laugh

[NationalPastime1980]

Who voted for Roberto? I guess they have never heard of the Sultan of Swat!

[Blackout]

this poll should've been made public (like the CF one) so we could laugh at who voted for Clemente :(

[leecemark]

--Nobody who takes even a casual glance at the numbers could come to the conclusion that Clemente was better - or even nearly as good - as Robinson. This isn't a case where it is close and you can say Clemente was enough better than his numbers to make up the difference. It isn't a matter of prefering styles or comparing eras. That Frank Robinson was better than Roberto Clemente is clear enough to be regarded as fact, rather than opinion.

[leecemark]

--Can one person form a consensus? I'll keep my senses for now, but congrats on taking leave of yours. :laugh
--I'll give credit where its due though. Your comparison of your Clemente argument and Pickett's Charge is an apt one. Good and appropriate historical reference.

[HDH]

Although its very obvious most people would choose Ruth as the greatest RF ever, it is for his hitting that changed the game in addition to his early days as a pitcher. In truth, he was a poor defensive RF; he played LF almost as much as RF in order to avoid the sun.

I've heard arguments that Reggie played center and was used in RF instead of Winfield but, in truth, when I saw Reggie play, he was very bad defensively. He did not move to LF when Winfield was acquired because he refused to. If you watched the games, the broadcasters also noted that RF was a large whole. Hank Aaron and Frank Robinson were not bad OF but were not exceptional.

When you ask me who is the greatest RF, of course Babe Ruth is in this position, However, Baseball is a game of defense and for day-to-day, if I couldn't have a Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, Ty Cobb, or Barry Bonds (since his 70 HR year), I want an outstanding hitter who is outstanding defensively also. I would take Dwight Evens and Dave Winfield over Reggie Jackson; Paul Waner and Mel Ott over Harry Heilmann; and Ichiro Suzuki over Sammy Sosa.

I've read where Roberto Clemente's fielding is over-stated and he was not a very accurate thrower. I don't know what to believe so I would take Aaron and Robinson over Clemente.

If I were a GM and was building a team and could choose a player from any era, my RF would not be Babe Ruth. I can't stand sloppy defense. I think he would be perfectly happy as a DH. It would be Ty Cobb then Paul Waner then Mel Ott.

One player I don't know much about is Stan Musial who hasn't seen much attention here.

[ElHalo]

Although its very obvious most people would choose Ruth as the greatest RF ever, it is for his hitting that changed the game in addition to his early days as a pitcher. In truth, he was a poor defensive RF; he played LF almost as much as RF in order to avoid the sun.

This is a common misconception. He switched back and forth between LF and RF (usually playing RF at home, LF on the road) because his fellow corner OF'er, Bob Meusel, was one of the great corner defenders of all time, certainly the best of his own time. Meusel got to play whichever field had more ground to cover. Ruth had the stronger arm, and with LF in the Bronx being more expansive, Ruth usually played in RF.

He was not a poor defensive RF'er. He had an outstanding arm, and until around 1929 or 1930 he was relatively rangy and sure handed in the outfield. He declined precipitously after that, but so do a lot of players in their mid to late 30's. Up until age 33 or 34, he was a B or B- fielder. Only after that did he really become a liability. But that's common. See Williams, Bernie, a guy who was an A- fielder, four time GG winner, up through age 32 or 33, and then became a C or C- fielder.

Not sure why people say that the Babe was a poor defender; he became poor in his mid and late 30's, but before that he was a fine fielder.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Not sure why people say that the Babe was a poor defender; he became poor in his mid and late 30's, but before that he was a fine fielder.

I think many people see Ruth as some big fat guy. When you see old film reels of him it's usually from later in his career when he became heavy. You rarely see old film reels of Ruth's Red Sox days or early Yankees days. He was quite thin with the Red Sox. Being a pitcher I'm sure he had a very strong arm.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

OK, who are the two people that voted for Clemente? How does Clemente have more votes than Aaron? :crazy

[BigStellyPADRES4LIFE]

How do Clemente or Aaron have any votes? Ill tell you why.... we got some racist ideas going on here.... ;) No but really come on reveal yourself i could use a good laugh.

[leecemark]

--I was the Aaron vote, but it was mostly just to be contrary. Hammering Hank is a top 10 all time player, but it would require some serious spin to make a case he was better than Ruth. Now that I've stepped forward, would the misinformed undividuals who cast votes for Clemente step forward so we can begin their education.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

--I was the Aaron vote, but it was mostly just to be contrary. Hammering Hank is a top 10 all time player, but it would require some serious spin to make a case he was better than Ruth. Now that I've stepped forward, would the misinformed undividuals who cast votes for Clemente step forward so we can begin their education.
Is this where the "board of education" meets the "seat of knowledge"? :laugh

[Honus Wagner Rules]

--I was the Aaron vote, but it was mostly just to be contrary. Hammering Hank is a top 10 all time player, but it would require some serious spin to make a case he was better than Ruth. Now that I've stepped forward, would the misinformed undividuals who cast votes for Clemente step forward so we can begin their education.
Perhaps if Aaron was the defensive whiz Speaker, Mays, and Ashburn were, there might be an argument.

[Bleacherbee]

With Rob Deer inexplicably being left off the poll I had to choose the second best RF of all time, that one guy who played for New York when the world was all black and white

[leecemark]

--Aaron and Mays were pretty much equal with the bat and Aaron lasted a bit longer as an effective player. I have Mays as my #1 all time, so yes if Aaron was a great CF instead of a good RF defender I would have him ahead of Ruth.

[BigStellyPADRES4LIFE]

--I was the Aaron vote, but it was mostly just to be contrary. Hammering Hank is a top 10 all time player, but it would require some serious spin to make a case he was better than Ruth. Now that I've stepped forward, would the misinformed undividuals who cast votes for Clemente step forward so we can begin their education.

Now i see why nobody has been in the HOF unanimously, and why its so hard to get 100% of anything..... man people like you stink... but then again you are what makes the world interesting so i guess i cant complain that much..... ;)

[leecemark]

--Well I do what I can and I'll go shower immediately. :D

[Sirmudgeon]

It seems a fine fettle, what with olfactory comments being cast about, but one contributor sees it thusly:

1. Ruth
2. Aaron
3. Robinson
4. Clemente
5. Crawford

Ott, Waner, Ichiro, Dihigo all appear to be H.M. guys, compared to this list. Take all stats, all contemporary opinions, all apparent/anecdotal/actual character evidence into account, be realistic, this seems to be a rational order of players one would choose, given the opportunity, to play right. Bad Vlad is coming up, but then, so was Griffey in the CF spectrum 'till he got hurt. So was Mantle, for that matter. To throw a fellow out at the plate, Dewey Evans is not a bad choice, but I'd rather have Vlad, and certainly Clemente, all around, even Ichiro if it comes to that. Robinson, well, that guy was a stud, and still is. Aaron, umm, 755 rings a bell, you could just write in .310-40-100 next to his name, for TWENTY YEARS IN A ROW, and not be far wrong. Ruth needs little further support, he speaks for himself in a variety of ways.

What does the all-time team look like thus far?

[HDH]

This is a common misconception. He switched back and forth between LF and RF (usually playing RF at home, LF on the road) because his fellow corner OF'er, Bob Meusel, was one of the great corner defenders of all time, certainly the best of his own time. Meusel got to play whichever field had more ground to cover. Ruth had the stronger arm, and with LF in the Bronx being more expansive, Ruth usually played in RF.


This is incorrect. Bob Meusel had one of the strongest and most accurate throwing arms the game has ever seen. He was also fast and covered allot of OF. Although the Babe was a pitcher, he was not very strong armed or accurate from the OF.

[ElHalo]

This is incorrect. Bob Meusel had one of the strongest and most accurate throwing arms the game has ever seen. He was also fast and covered allot of OF. Although the Babe was a pitcher, he was not very strong armed or accurate from the OF.

You're right about Meusel, that he had one of the best arms ever and covered a lot of ground. However, EVERYONE I've ever read said that Babe had an excellent throwing arm. Where are you getting your information from?

[iPod]

This is incorrect. Bob Meusel had one of the strongest and most accurate throwing arms the game has ever seen. He was also fast and covered allot of OF. Although the Babe was a pitcher, he was not very strong armed or accurate from the OF.

How could you be a pitcher and not be strong armed?

[RuthMayBond]

How could you be a pitcher and not be strong armed?Phil Niekro, Dave LaRoche, Greg Maddux, Preacher Roe ...?

[gotahavmypops2]

I agree with 53280 Babe Ruth is the best RF ever. No one ever was more important to their team.. Imagine the '27 Yankees without him. his hr hitting was amazing! By the way Chris it's me Nick

[Bluesteve32]

Since I still think he is the best baseball player ever, just narrowing it down to RF should be easy.

George Herman Ruth!

[The Commissioner]

I am so very glad to see from the poll results thus far, that there does exist at least some modicum of sanity here.

[schlabotnik]

1. Ruth
2. Aaron
3. Robinson
4. Ott
5. Ichiro
6. Crawford
7. Waner
8. Kaline
9. Heilmann
10. Klein
11. Keeler
12. Sosa
13. S. Rice
14. Cravath
15. V. Guerrero
16. Clemente
17. Rose
18. R. Jackson
19. Sheffield
20. O'Neill

Paul O'Neill's inclusion might just be a sentimental choice. Strong position; the first 18 all make my top 100 players.


You have Clemente in 16Th position :confused: I will admit that I have a lot to learn in Baseball in general but this one I reeeeeaaaalllyyy would like you to explain. Just the fact that you've put Guerrero in front of him let me think you have never seen Guerrero on a regular basis. Yes he can hit the ball all over, but his defense was so sloppy and too many times when he was in Montréal

[schlabotnik]

OK, who are the two people that voted for Clemente? How does Clemente have more votes than Aaron? :crazy


I voted for Clemente on the basis of the question being : Who is the best RF. I will admit to Ruth and Aaron's batsmanship, but in fielding + the power of his arm, Clemente gets my vote. Seems that in most of these posts, the defensive qualities of players gets to be the 5th wheel of the cart.

[ElHalo]

I voted for Clemente on the basis of the question being : Who is the best RF. I will admit to Ruth and Aaron's batsmanship, but in fielding + the power of his arm, Clemente gets my vote. Seems that in most of these posts, the defensive qualities of players gets to be the 5th wheel of the cart.

Except that that's not really what the question was asking. Yet again, a subtle turn of phrase does us in.

The question isn't "who's the best defensive RF'er," it's "who's the best RF'er." Clemente's a better defender than Ruth or Aaron, but as total players, their offensive advantages totally outweigh Clemente's defensive edge.

[schlabotnik]

Except that that's not really what the question was asking. Yet again, a subtle turn of phrase does us in.

The question isn't "who's the best defensive RF'er," it's "who's the best RF'er." Clemente's a better defender than Ruth or Aaron, but as total players, their offensive advantages totally outweigh Clemente's defensive edge.

Ok i'll give you that one if : tu peux me dire pourquoi il est si tant tellement préférable que le côté qui la frappe soit plus important que le côté qui la lance ? :p

[schlabotnik]

How subtle is this ? :waving

[RuthMayBond]

Ok i'll give you that one if : tu peux me dire pourquoi il est si tant tellement préférable que le côté qui la frappe soit plus important que le côté qui la lance ? :pI can tell you why it is so preferable that the side that hits is more important that the side which catches because even the bad "sides" that catch can catch 85+% of what's hit their way, but the "side" that hits does less successfully, and if you don't get above .250 you're unlikely to get anywhere. Comprendez-vous? :D

[schlabotnik]

I can tell you why it is so preferable that the side that hits is more important that the side which catches because even the bad "sides" that catch can catch 85+% of what's hit their way, but the "side" that hits does less successfully, and if you don't get above .250 you're unlikely to get anywhere. Comprendez-vous? :D

Now that's an explanation. Yes I do "comprendre" and will learn from it.

[RuthMayBond]

Now that's an explanation. Yes I do "comprendre" and will learn from it.De rien :D As I believe Monsieur Ted Williams said, hitting a ball, with a round stick, straight, as far as sports, it is "la chose la plus difficile" :D

[schlabotnik]

De rien :D As I believe Monsieur Ted Williams said, hitting a ball, with a round stick, straight, as far as sports, it is "la chose la plus difficile" :D

Mes sincères félicitations pour la qualité de votre français; d'où vous vient-il ?

[RuthMayBond]

Mes sincères félicitations pour la qualité de votre français; d'où vous vient-il ?Comme "location" dit, je viens de "northeast Ohio" de les Etats-Unis. Il est vingt-sept ans :eek: (ou annees?) depuis j'etudie le francais.

[schlabotnik]

Comme "location" dit, je viens de "northeast Ohio" de les Etats-Unis. Il est vingt-sept ans :eek: (ou annees?) depuis j'etudie le francais.
There is a "play on words" with your moniker
Ruth-May- Bond
Rude-mais-bon...........rough-but-good

[Baseball Guru]

Comme "location" dit, je viens de "northeast Ohio" de les Etats-Unis. Il est vingt-sept ans :eek: (ou annees?) depuis j'etudie le francais.


Damn, 27 years since you studied and you can still remember:eek:

Impressive.. btw, Ruth gets my vote;)

[RuthMayBond]

There is a "play on words" with your moniker
Ruth-May- Bond
Rude-mais-bon...........rough-but-goodWell, at least people will agree with the "rude" :laugh :laugh :laugh :laugh

[RuthMayBond]

Damn, 27 years since you studied and you can still remember:eek: Mais j'ai etudie le francais pendant NEUF ans/annees, c'est un LONGTEMP.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

You're gonna see a lot of..

Ruth
Aaron
Robinson

And then it gets more interesting.

[steelcitybombers]

The Hammer hands down.

[AlecBoy006]

I think Al Kaline would make more sense than Sosa. He got skinnier by year, and despite hitting 60 homers 3 times, he was a strikeout artist.

[DoubleX]

Many might wonder why names like Al Kaline, Sam Crawford, Reggie Jackson and Dave Winfield are not on this list but Vladimir Guerrero and Sammy Sosa are.

But the point is moot anyway because other than some Aaron supporters you might find out there, I imagine the vast majority will take Ruth.

[Edgartohof]

1) Ruth
2) Aaron
3) Waner

Paul Waner is under-rated: If you believe his statistics are high because of the era he played, then you also should consider Ruth in that category as well. As an OF, he had great range and a great arm. On offense, he produced over 3000 hits, had a lifetime .333 ave, and rarely struck out; he was a good baserunner and scored over 100 runs 9 times; and was one of the all-time clutch hitters. As far as stolen bases go, the 1930s philosophy of baserunning did not promote base stealing. His brother, Lloyde, was considered the fastest man in baseball and stole single digit base totals. He was voted in the HOF by the original BBWAA whos selections were extremely strict especially compared with today's selections. If I were building a team, I would take him before Ruth and Aaron; There's no way Waner is below top 5.

I believe there are LOTS of ways that he can be below top 5 - even 10.

[drncollazo]

Dear Mr. McAdam,

Anytime I think of a complete right fielder, one who could hit, run field and throw with consistency, I think of Roberto Clemente. I do not believe anyone of the players you listed could play right field like Clemente could. Certainly, not one had the accurate arm Clemente possessed. I'm old enough top have seen this man throw runners out at first base on routine hits to right field. He could match those throwing skills with fielding skills (12 time Golden Glove winner) and with timely hitting. Actually, spectacular hitting, when one considers that he always batted third on the lineup and that he faced some of the greatest hurlers in baseball history (i.e. Ferguson Jenkins, Nolan Ryan, Bob Gibson, Sandy Koufax, Don Drysdale, Tom Seaver, Juan Marichal, and many others). I noticed that you had Al Kaline ahead of Clemente. Even Kaline would tell you Clemente was better than he was.

You may wish to revise your list.

[Captain Cold Nose]

Dear Mr. McAdam,

Anytime I think of a complete right fielder, one who could hit, run field and throw with consistency, I think of Roberto Clemente. I do not believe anyone of the players you listed could play right field like Clemente could. Certainly, not one had the accurate arm Clemente possessed. I'm old enough top have seen this man throw runners out at first base on routine hits to right field. He could match those throwing skills with fielding skills (12 time Golden Glove winner) and with timely hitting. Actually, spectacular hitting, when one considers that he always batted third on the lineup and that he faced some of the greatest hurlers in baseball history (i.e. Ferguson Jenkins, Nolan Ryan, Bob Gibson, Sandy Koufax, Don Drysdale, Tom Seaver, Juan Marichal, and many others). I noticed that you had Al Kaline ahead of Clemente. Even Kaline would tell you Clemente was better than he was.

You may wish to revise your list.


Welcome.

Who's Mr. McAdam?

Kaline is quite humble.

[stejay]

Obviously the Babe.... This is the scenario....

Babe

(Gap of the size of a galaxy)

Everyone else

1. Babe
2. Aaron
3. Ott
4. Robinson
5. Clemente
6. Rose
7. Waner
8. Jackson
9. Sosa
10. Kaline
11. Griffey jr.
12. Keeler
13. Crawford
14. Suzuki
15. Rice
16. Gwynn
17. King Kelly
18. Slaughter
19. Winfield
20. Klein

Why is DiHigo on the list. He is outclassed in that poll, and should have had Sosa, waner or even Rose instead of him.

[RuthMayBond]

Obviously the Babe.... This is the scenario....

Babe

(Gap of the size of a galaxy)

Everyone else

1. Babe
2. Aaron
3. Ott
4. Robinson
5. Clemente
6. Rose
7. Waner
8. Jackson
9. Sosa
10. Kaline
11. Griffey jr.
12. Keeler
13. Crawford
14. Suzuki
15. Rice
16. Gwynn
17. King Kelly
18. Slaughter
19. Winfield
20. KleinIchiro, Slaughter, Rice ahead of Winfield, no Sheffield/Heilmann/Manny, good one

[JimmieFoxxFan]

i have to say ruth because he was not only a famous hitter but he had an arm and even though people describe him as lazy he hustled when he needed to

[SHOELESSJOE3]

I think Al Kaline would make more sense than Sosa. He got skinnier by year, and despite hitting 60 homers 3 times, he was a strikeout artist.

I saw plenty of Al Kaline even though not from Detroit. Lots of trips to Cleveland and Detroit from Buffalo NY, when the Yanks played there.
All I can remember about Al was that he seemed to be the perfect ball player, at bat, on the bases and extra special in the outfield. When taking an extra base it seemed he always made it. At bat a very good hitter yearly near the top in AL offense, knew how to run the bases, in the outfield making some difficult catches look easy and his throws a thing of beauty.

One game on a fly ball he held Mantle on second base with a perfect throw to third. The next batter hits a fly to the same spot and Mantle goes, the throw on the money but the third baseman drops the ball. I guess Mantle is thinking he made one perfect throw, could he make another, he did.

Nothing spectacular, no 40 or 50 home run seasons, not even a 30 season, no tape measure drives. But if one were to build a near perfect player that could do everything a player could and do it all well, that was Kaline.

[Tyrus4189Cobb]

-The top 3 should be pretty clear cut for everyone, although somebody cast a bewildering vote for Clemente.
1. Ruth
2. Aaron
3. Robinson
4. Jackson
5. Ott
6. Crawford
7. Gwynn
8. Kaline
9. Clemente
10. Waner
11. Rose - a more valuable player than half the above, but only kind of a RF
12. Winfield
13. Sosa
14. Heilman
15. Oliva
16. Parker
17. Evans
18. Walker
19. Guerreo
20. Suzuki
--The last two are somewhat projected. They could easily climb higher or fall off the list altogether in the next couple years. This is an incredibly deep position. Honorable mentions; Thompson, Keeler, Craveth, Klein, Cuyler, Furillo, Colavito, Maris, Bonds and Sheffield and even with 30 players listed I'm sure I'm over looking someone who deserves mention.

Crawford over Clemente, Kaline, and Gwynn?:rant::rant:

I dont know why, but it seems that Clemente is very underrated at BBF.

[RuthMayBond]

Crawford over Clemente, Kaline, and Gwynn?:rant::rant:Absolutely

<I dont know why, but it seems that Clemente is very underrated at BBF.>

The problem is that Clemente is one of SEVERAL right fielders who, rated in their ENTIRETY (not defensively only), are VERY close together by many statistical methods. Winfield, Kaline, Gwynn, Clemente and Paul Waner all have an OPS+ between 129 and 134 (if you go down to a 127 OPS+ then add Dwight Evans), and around eleven thousand plate apps. If Sheffield's batting drops off, he could join this group

[Tyrus4189Cobb]

Actually, I made a slight error. I thought he was talking about Carl Crawford, then I remembered Carl is a LF. I completely forgot about Sam Crawford.

sorry:dismay::cry:

[RuthMayBond]

Actually, I made a slight error. I thought he was talking about Carl Crawford, then I remembered Carl is a LF. I completely forgot about Sam Crawford.

sorry:dismay::cry:
Your credibility is, uh, spared :shhh::highfive::faint::pray::disbelief: :crossfingers:

[NJMetfan4life]

Wasn't Ruth a left-fielder?

[KCGHOST]

Wasn't Ruth a left-fielder?

Ruth played in RF for 1131 games and in LF for 1057.

As for Clemente, I do tire of the argument "well, I saw him play and ....". Where do you think the rest of us were?? A lot of us saw him play and admire his skills but he isn't at the same level as Ruth, Aaron, Ott, and Robinson.

He is in that cluster with Waner, Kaline, Gwynn, Jackson, etc. His defense doesn't raise him above their level. It simply raises him to that level. And that's not too shabby.

[Sirmudgeon]

Thanks for the insights on this post. I knew Meusel was good but not so good as he apparently was on D. I didn't realise Ruth played that many games in LF. I can't believe Rose is a RF, I saw him play mostly at 3B and LF. How many games did Cobb play in RF (where an earlier poster places him with Ruth at DH)? Both intriguing ideas, but Ruth never played DH (where he probably belongs on an all-time dreaam lineup), so can't vote for him there, I guess, according to the spirit of the poll. Ichiro is good, and should be considered a Dead Ball player, against better league-wide pitching. Loved Aaron for class and consistency, Frank Robinson is/was a beast, Waner is indeed under-rated, I've heard amazing things about Dihigo, Dewey Evans was very good defensively. When I think RF D, I always think of Clemente, and he did so much for Latino ballplayers, he deserves that statue (just look at big league rosters, and compare them to his heyday- what an incredible difference).

All that said, if you take the poll to mean all-around player, no one other than Ruth can realistically be considered. Incredible numbers, versatility (now in relief, from RF, Ruth- just like LL!), cultural icon, immeasurable long-term impact on the game, it would be difficult to design a more apt candidate.

Guys like Kaline, Ott, yes Clemente, Waner, Winfield, Wahoo Sam, etc. great in their eras, same with most of the moderns. Sosa, long-term impact and impressive HR numbers, not such great shakes from so many other standpoints.

With all due respect, I am disappointed that some contributors think so little of their opinions that they would cast a vote just to be contrary. I read these voting totals and find them to be faintly ridiculous. I love the arguments put forth by various authors on these pages to support their positions, yet find voting for the unqualified to be specious, at best.

I too am disappointed not to see Rob Deer get any votes, and no one has mentioned Dave Kingman, though his more appropriate position would probably have been "way out of left field, with Manny and maybe Jay Johnstone."

In sum, this is really the one all-time position that ought have been unanimous in the vote totals. That it isn't is not a facet of "that's why we have debates", but rather a "let's debate for debate's sake, and toss our votes just to be in dissent." Not impressed.

[White Knight]

1. Ruth
2. Aaron
3. Robinson
4. Ott
5. Ichiro
6. Crawford
7. Waner
8. Kaline
9. Heilmann
10. Klein
11. Keeler
12. Sosa
13. S. Rice
14. Cravath
15. V. Guerrero
16. Clemente
17. Rose
18. R. Jackson
19. Sheffield
20. O'Neill

Paul O'Neill's inclusion might just be a sentimental choice. Strong position; the first 18 all make my top 100 players.

No Dave Winfield?