how do you pronounce Lajoie?

[Blackout]

I just heard Chris Berman say "Lah-shu-way"

but I've also heard it pronounced Lah-Joy

anyone know how it was said?

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I just heard Chris Berman say "Lah-shu-way"

but I've also heard it pronounced Lah-Joy

anyone know how it was said?
According to wikipedia, it's pronounced la-ZHWAY

but according to fact monster it's pronounced:

Laj•oi•e

Pronunciation: (lash'u-wā"),
—n.
Napoleon (“Nap”), 1875–1959, U.S. baseball player.

[westsidegrounds]

Correct French pron. would be La-zhwah.

But HWR is looking for how people back then pronounced it, right? I'd like to know too.

I always assumed they said La-joey (as in Joey Bishop).

[MasonDixon]

I've always pronounced it "Lah-Zoo-Ay". Probably not the correct pronunciation.

[SABR Matt]

For the longest time I pronounced it La-Ho-Eye

WAY off.

In the last year I've been pronouncing it La-Zhwah realizing he was french in origin.

[HDH]

I read in a magazine article titled Call Me La Zwa that Napoleon LaJoie often corrected people. While reading it, I asked a French Canadian friend to pronounce his last name. Since then, everyone I've ever heard pronounced it incorrectly. You will need to ask a person who's 1st language is French to pronounce it. It sounds like Le - Zshwa (No English combination does it justice).

The most irritating mis-pronunciation is the Texas Auto Mechanics version: La - Joe - Way.
The most common mis-pronunciation: La - Joy.

[Clockwork]

If I'm talking baseball with my friends, I say la-joy.

But if I talk baseball with someone who knows what their actually talking about (ie, not my friends) I say la-zwah.

[538280]

I've always pronouced it La-jo-ee. I'm glad Berman even mentioned him, regardless of how he pronouced it. I'm glad whenever ESPN mentions anything about baseball before 1980, since they almost never do.

[ElHalo]

I always assumed it was Lah-Joey, but then I actually bothered to look it up and saw that he pronounced it "lah-zhwah," with the "zh" sound like the "s" in "measure."

[iPod]

Good thread... when I first read it I read it "La zshoo ee" and since then I've been tenative about how to pronounce it.

Others...

Earle Combs
Edd Roush
Sal Maglie
Kiki Cuyler
Ed Reulbach

[SABR Matt]

Earle Combs I say Earl (the usual way) Cohms (think co as in cobra with an ms at the end)

Edd Roush I say the Roush part like house (as in...OW!...)

Sal Maglie: Sal Mag-Lee

Kiki Cuyler: Kee-Kee Keye-Ler (eye with a k in front of it)

Ed Reulbach: Ed Rule-Bock

[LouGehrig]

Nap LAJOIE is pronounced "winner."

When sticking to the pronunciation of the actual letters in his name, the American pronunciation is La Jo EEE.

He did play most of his games in America, the land of the free and the home of the braves.

[SABR Matt]

Modern examples...

Shigetoshi Hasegawa...
If I hear one more announcer mangle that into See-Geh-Tah-See I'll snap...LOL It's She-Geh-Toe-She guys...two sh sounds...not that hard!

Ichiro...people keep putting the emphasis on the wrong syllable...

It's not Ee-CHEE-Ro...it's EE-chee-ro

Last year I had all kinds of problems with Clint Nageotte...

The proper version is Na-zhaht...the same kind of j sound as Lajoie...with a hard ah vowel.

And JJ Putz is not pronounced like the yiddish word (putts)...it's pronounce like the english word (puts).

That is all for your Mariner lesson. :)

[LouGehrig]

How about Tony K U B E K?

[westsidegrounds]

<...>
Kiki Cuyler: Kee-Kee Keye-Ler (eye with a k in front of it)

<...>

It looks like that, but the "Kiki" according to all the stories I've read stands for the sound Pirates fans would make when he made a great play or whatever: they would go "Cuy! Cuy!" So apparently it should be Keye-keye Keye-ler.

[iPod]

Heh, "keye" isn't really helping me... could be "kee" or "kai" or "kay".

[iPod]

Earle Combs I say Earl (the usual way) Cohms (think co as in cobra with an ms at the end)

Edd Roush I say the Roush part like house (as in...OW!...)

Sal Maglie: Sal Mag-Lee

Kiki Cuyler: Kee-Kee Keye-Ler (eye with a k in front of it)

Ed Reulbach: Ed Rule-Bock

I only ask about Earle because I remember reading somewhere that it might have been pronounced "Cooms".

[mordeci]

Heh, "keye" isn't really helping me... could be "kee" or "kai" or "kay".

he means k + eye. Ki Ki rhymes with fly fly.

[mac195]

It's not Ee-CHEE-Ro...it's EE-chee-ro

EE-che-ro sounds closer than Ee-CHEE-Ro, but in Japanese there isn't much extra stress on any of the syllables. Ichiro is just a flat "ee-chee-ro", same with ee-rah-boo, and maht-soo-ee.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

How does one pronounce Mel Ott? :D

[flash143817]

How does one pronounce Mel Ott? :D

The same as Ed Ott, but without the Ed part.

[J W]

I've always said "la-JOY" until my father corrected me just a month ago. I guess I'll just do my best scathing mock french accent in front of him from now on. :p

I was wrong about "Cooms" too.

Kiki Cuyler I usually go "kee-kee KOI-ler" like I was Curly Howard (the Stooge) or something. Obviously I haven't been around too many baseball historians in person. :D

Some other names I'd like to know about and how I pronounce them:

Heinie Manush "mahn-OOSH" (I think this one's right)
Ben Oglivie "OH-guhl-vee" (can't get around the "gl")
Tommie Agee "AY-jee" (I've heard the "a" and "g" pronounced short)
Gavvy Cravath "KRAV-eth" (heard it "krah-VATH")
Lon Warneke "WAHR-nek-ee" (heard it "wahr-NEK-ee")
George Uhle "YOOL" (no idea)
Red Schoendienst "SHOHN-dee-enst" (that's the only way I've heard it)

[mac195]

Red Schoendienst "SHOHN-dee-enst" (that's the only way I've heard it)

Heh. I always thought it was "SHANE-deenst". I think that's how the Boston radio guys used to say it, but they probably had it wrong.

[Imapotato]

I pronounce

Lajoie as "great-est 2b of all time"

I think that's the American version

[ElHalo]

I've always pronounced Shoendienst as:

Show-end-eyenzt

Where the "eyenz" is pronounced like the German numeral "eins."

[leecemark]

--I pronouce it la-joy in my head. As far as I can recall I've never had occasion to speak his name aloud. The only people I know who would have any idea who I was talking about are those here with whom all communication is written.
--Schoendienst was still around as manager of the Cardinals when I first started watching the game. As I recall it was pronounced Show-N-deenst. I wouldn't bet too much that is right though. It was a long time ago and I was just a kid. I'm sure we have some old Card's fans around who remember it like yesterday.

[iPod]

I've always pronounced Shoendienst as:

Show-end-eyenzt

Where the "eyenz" is pronounced like the German numeral "eins."

It's "shane-deenst". That one I'm sure of.

[iPod]

While we're at it... recent players who will confuse future generations:

Chuck Knoblauch
Jim Thome
Kirk Rueter
Jose Vizcaino
Justin Duchscherer
Kirk Saarloos
Huston Street
Marco Scutaro
Mark Grudzielanek
C.C. Sabathia
Jim Mecir
Doug Mientkiewicz
Sidney Ponson
Akinori Otsuka
Rob Mackowiak
Mark Teixeria
Bill Mueller

[brihev]

I just heard Chris Berman say "Lah-shu-way"

but I've also heard it pronounced Lah-Joy

anyone know how it was said?

I've always heard 'La-shu-way'. But NASCAR driver Randy Lajoie pronounces it "La-joy".

[J W]

I've always heard 'La-shu-way'. But NASCAR driver Randy Lajoie pronounces it "La-joy".

That's it! That's where I got "La-JOY" from! Thanks a lot, brihev!

I should be hitting my head over that one... motorsports were the first that I closely followed, but my mind is on baseball here :) .

[Appling]

In my childhood ignorance I pronounced Nap's name as "la-JOE-ee".
Recently I came to understand it is pronounced something like 'LA-zhah-way".

Important thing to me is which syllable should be accented? probably the first? (I don't know French)

Not hard to understand why they named thatg early Cleveland team the "Naps" rather than the "Lajoie's".

[Barnstormer]

Again, if it's "correct" pronunciation we're looking for, that is :

la-zhwah

just two syllables.

Still looking for evidence re how his contemporaries - the average Naps fan, for example - would have pronounced it.

I think given the absence of broadcast media at that time, you're not going to get that evidence. The average Naps fan would probably have pronounced it wrong, in a variety of different ways, most commonly La-JOE-way or La-JOY. There were no radio or TV announcers to standardize the pronounciation so I imagine it was widely butchered. I mean how would the average NASCAR fan pronounce Randy Lajoie's name if s/he only read it in the paper and never heard it pronounced? :ughh (shudder)

And if HDH's post about the article "Call me La-zwa" is right, and it seems quite reasonable, Nap himself preferred the correct French pronunciation and corrected people when he could (like his teammates) but probably didn't sweat it too much.

[westsidegrounds]

Well, we somehow know that Johnny Evers' name is pronounced eevers not evvers ... and Philly fans all say Toe-mee, and not though-m or tomay ...

[Barnstormer]

Well, we somehow know that Johnny Evers' name is pronounced eevers not evvers ... and Philly fans all say Toe-mee, and not though-m or tomay ...

I'm not sure that everyone knows that's how you pronounce Evers name...I seem to recall hearing lots of announcers and such saying "Tinkers to Eh-vers to Chance", I wouldn't say that's common knowledge.

And Thome plays today in the era of mass media, people hear his name all the time. I was referring to people in Lajoie's time, I don't think the average fan knew the correct pronunciation (heck, 100 years later we are still discussing it and people still aren't sure!).

[Bluesteve32]

I have a book stashed away someplace called Cult Baseball Players - about guys like Steve Bilko, Bo Belinsky, etc - which if I remember correctly has an appendix giving pronunciations for a lot of players' names ... nothing to do with the rest of the book, but interesting.


Does anyone know for sure about Edd Roosh/Rowsh/Roash/Rush, BTW?

Speaking of Steve Bilko. ;) I understand Phil Silvers called his character after the PCL great according to some sources.

[Appling]

I have a book stashed away someplace called Cult Baseball Players - which if I remember correctly has an appendix giving pronunciations for a lot of players' names ...

Does anyone know for sure about Edd Roosh/Rowsh/Roash/Rush, BTW?

From this thread, sounds like a great book to have.
Regarding Roush, I always understood his name to be pronounced "Rowsh". never seemed to be a question about him.

Johnny Evers name was always pronounced "EE-vers", except perhaps in the Grantland Rice poem.

Lajoie is the name I never was sure of.

[brihev]

[QUOTE=Barnstormer] I mean how would the average NASCAR fan pronounce Randy Lajoie's name if s/he only read it in the paper and never heard it pronounced? :ughh (shudder)

Depends on where that fan is from. If they were from the hollers of Carolina, one way. If from the bayous of Louisiana quite differently. :crazy

[Barnstormer]

[QUOTE=Barnstormer] I mean how would the average NASCAR fan pronounce Randy Lajoie's name if s/he only read it in the paper and never heard it pronounced? :ughh (shudder)

Depends on where that fan is from. If they were from the hollers of Carolina, one way. If from the bayous of Louisiana quite differently. :crazy

I assume a cajun from the bayous would actually pronounce it correctly!

[keving7]

Johnny Evers name was always pronounced "EE-vers", except perhaps in the Grantland Rice poem.

Lajoie is the name I never was sure of.


Actually Franklin Pierce Adams wrote "Baseballs Sad Lexicon"

Grantland Rice is remembered for his 4 Horsemen reference, among numerous other writings.

"Outlined against a blue, gray October sky the Four Horsemen rode again...."

[ElHalo]

I mean how would the average NASCAR fan pronounce Randy Lajoie's name if s/he only read it in the paper and never heard it pronounced? :ughh (shudder).

This is kind of a trick question, though... we all know the average NASCAR fan can't read.

[schlabotnik]

I just heard Chris Berman say "Lah-shu-way"

but I've also heard it pronounced Lah-Joy

anyone know how it was said?

My origins being french-canadian from Montréal, maybe I could suggest the following : http://www.chez.com/jardindenfants/Trenetyadlajoie.htm

Lajoie should be pronounced approximatively like :

LA.........Like the La in Labatt's then you add a a final "J" sound
JOIE.......Like....YOU , but change the Y for a CH and then you add an AHHH

Should sound like..... LAJ- CHOU - AHH


Johnny.

[SABR Steve]

I've always said "la-JOY" until my father corrected me just a month ago. I guess I'll just do my best scathing mock french accent in front of him from now on. :p

I was wrong about "Cooms" too.

Kiki Cuyler I usually go "kee-kee KOI-ler" like I was Curly Howard (the Stooge) or something. Obviously I haven't been around too many baseball historians in person. :D

Some other names I'd like to know about and how I pronounce them:

Heinie Manush "mahn-OOSH" (I think this one's right)
Ben Oglivie "OH-guhl-vee" (can't get around the "gl")
Tommie Agee "AY-jee" (I've heard the "a" and "g" pronounced short)
Gavvy Cravath "KRAV-eth" (heard it "krah-VATH")
Lon Warneke "WAHR-nek-ee" (heard it "wahr-NEK-ee")
George Uhle "YOOL" (no idea)
Red Schoendienst "SHOHN-dee-enst" (that's the only way I've heard it)
Gavy or Gavvy Cravath is pronounced "krah-VATH." About three years ago I attended a SABR meeting in San Diego with Cravath's family as our featured guests. He was born in San Diego County. They pronounce the name as above: "krah-VATH."

[Sultan_1895-1948]

How do you pronounce "Honus?"

you mean, Haw-nuss or Hoe-nuss?

[runningshoes]

you mean, Haw-nuss or Hoe-nuss?

I've always pronounced it Hoe-nuss.

[Captain Cold Nose]

I've always pronounced it Hoe-nuss.
I've called him Haw-ness, as he was also called Hans.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

I've called him Haw-ness, as he was also called Hans.

Maybe the flying dutchman inspired George Lucas to name Hans Solo?

[Cubsfan97]

Ive always pronounced it La-hoe-ee

[Brian McKenna]

i just learned dan brouthers is pronounced broothers per baseball's first stars

[SABR Steve]

you mean, Haw-nuss or Hoe-nuss?
Yes. I found one site that pronounces it as "HON-es." His nickname was originally spelt "Hannes," according to his biographer. Presumably, the writers simply chopped off the first syllable of "Johannes."

[GaryL]

For what it's worth, I remember reading in Leo Durocher's autobiography that as a child his name was actually pronounced in the French style: Du-ro-SHAY.

Also, over the years, I've heard Lou Boudreau's name pronounced at times with the accent on the first syllable and at other times on the second syllable. I can tell you as a long time Cub fan who heard Lou broadcasting the Cub games over many years, he always pronounced his name: Lou BOO-drou.

Other names that always have me guessing every time I see them are: Al Bridwell, Jack Chesbro, Buck Ewing, Heine Groh, Frenchy Bordagaray, Bill Wambsganss.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

How do you pronounce "Honus?"
I call him John Peter Wagner. :D Seriously, I've always pronounced it Haw-ness.

[ElHalo]

Other names that always have me guessing every time I see them are: Al Bridwell, Jack Chesbro, Buck Ewing, Heine Groh, Frenchy Bordagaray, Bill Wambsganss.

Having a hard time grocking what you can't make out in most of these names. Unless I'm missing something obvious, the first four should be:

Al Bridwell... well, can't imagine any possible way of pronouncing it besides "Brid" (like "Britt," with a "d") - well.

Jack Chesbro... Chez (rhymes with "pez" or the first syllable in "lesbian") - bro (rhymes with "go").

Buck Ewing... Just like Patrick Ewing.

Heine Groh... High-knee Grow.

Last two I'm not so sure of, but I've always pronounced Wambsganss as wams (rhymes with calms or the first syllable in "Dominic") - ganz (like cans).

[yanks0714]

I am here to help you all with the absolute corrent pronunciation of Nap LaJoie's name:

It is pronounced {altogether now } ' Nap '. Now wasn't that easy? Sheesh, how hard can that be? :confused: :cool: :rolleyes: ;)

Humor aside, I've pronounced it Lah-jah-way. I saw that is some book one time. I had always pronounced it Lah-joey before.

Now, how do pronounce hockey HOF'er Maurice Richard???

[Scoops]

MOH-reese REE-shar(d). I say the (d) if I'm speaking English and I don't when I'm speaking French.

The poor French Canadians of the NHL often seem to have a hard time getting their names pronounced properly. Just ask Simon (SEE-mohn*) Gagne of the Flyers. He gets called "Simone" far too much. Martin Brodeur of the Devlis has issues with his last name too (BROH-der).

And I have always been driven insane by Greg Gagne of Minnesota Twins fame. Gag-knee, as opposed to the way Eric Gagne pronounces his last name (Simon too).

Hearing Lajoie pronounce La-zhoo-eh in Ken Burns' Baseball knocked me for a bit of a loop. I'd always just pronounced it the French way. Incidentally, La-zhoo-eh sounds a lot like the French La Jouet: The Toy.

* That's the best way I can think of writing it.

[SABR Steve]

I only ask about Earle because I remember reading somewhere that it might have been pronounced "Cooms".


When I was a kid in the 50's all the oldtimers said "Cooms."

[SABR Steve]

I'm not sure that everyone knows that's how you pronounce Evers name...I seem to recall hearing lots of announcers and such saying "Tinkers to Eh-vers to Chance", I wouldn't say that's common knowledge.

And Thome plays today in the era of mass media, people hear his name all the time. I was referring to people in Lajoie's time, I don't think the average fan knew the correct pronunciation (heck, 100 years later we are still discussing it and people still aren't sure!).

Fred Snodgrass a comtemporary pronounced it as EE-vers or A-vers on a the tape version of "The Glory of Their Times."

[Brian McKenna]

it's pronounced ee-vers

[Nomtoc]

La-Hoy.

..................................................

[Rusty Barr]

How do you pronounce Jack Fournier?

Also, I learned that Hooks Dauss is a big encyclopedia boo boo. They called him Hookie Dauss

[Brian McKenna]

La-Hoy.

..................................................

it is Lah-jah-way

[Rusty Barr]

Hans Lobert on the Glory of Their Times CD says it is pronounced "HAHN-is....the same way you pronounce HAHN-is Wagner". German for John. (John-is...except an H for the J)

I'm guessing Jack Fournier is Szhock For-NYEH?

[SABR Steve]

Hans Lobert on the Glory of Their Times CD says it is pronounced "HAHN-is....the same way you pronounce HAHN-is Wagner". German for John. (John-is...except an H for the J)

I'm guessing Jack Fournier is Szhock For-NYEH?


I only asked because every dictionary has it as "HOE-nes" with a long "O". Curt Gowdy used to pronounce it that way too, but he mispronounced a lot of things. Every old-timer, however, has been heard to say "HAHN-is." Wagner may very well be the greatest ballplayer of them all and we need to get this one right. Zounds, I even named my boxer dog Honus (HAHN-es).

[Charbonne]

Well, I hate to break it to you guys, but Nap's my great great uncle, and the way the family pronounces his last name is "Lashwah", with the "sh" part sounding a bit like the j from jet. I have also heard every pronunciation in the world for Lajoie, and as far as the family is concerned, at least "lajoy" is expected. The worst was at my brother's graduation, where I don't know what they said, but it was nowhere close.

[ipitch]

Well, I hate to break it to you guys, but Nap's my great great uncle, and the way the family pronounces his last name is "Lashwah", with the "sh" part sounding a bit like the j from jet. I have also heard every pronunciation in the world for Lajoie, and as far as the family is concerned, at least "lajoy" is expected.

Do you know how Nap pronounced it? That's all that really matters. People with the same last name (even if related) don't always use the same pronunciation.

[Captain Cold Nose]

Well, I hate to break it to you guys, but Nap's my great great uncle, and the way the family pronounces his last name is "Lashwah", with the "sh" part sounding a bit like the j from jet. I have also heard every pronunciation in the world for Lajoie, and as far as the family is concerned, at least "lajoy" is expected. The worst was at my brother's graduation, where I don't know what they said, but it was nowhere close.

That's how Hal Linden pretty much pronounced it in a documentary I saw some time ago. Thanks.

[leewileyfan]

Nap was my father's childhood idol. My father, born in 1895, referred to him as Nap [or Napoleon] LaJOY.

Seeing the post immediately above, an invoking my HS French teacher, Mr. Trezza, it would have been La-JWA, making Charbonne and the Lajoie family quite happy.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

I just heard Chris Berman say "Lah-shu-way"

but I've also heard it pronounced Lah-Joy

anyone know how it was said?

Thats what I'm going with. The reason, what convinced me. I saw Nap's nephew in an interview, many, many years ago and when asked, thats the way he pronounced it. It could have been on ESPN and it could have been Berman doing the interview.

[Tyrus4189Cobb]

I've always said "Lah-joy" because that's how I pronounced it upon entering my interest in baseball, so it stuck.

While we're on the subject, Frankie Frisch= Frankie "frish?"

Dan Brouthers= Dan "Brothers" or "Brow-thers?"

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Well, I hate to break it to you guys, but Nap's my great great uncle, and the way the family pronounces his last name is "Lashwah", with the "sh" part sounding a bit like the j from jet. I have also heard every pronunciation in the world for Lajoie, and as far as the family is concerned, at least "lajoy" is expected. The worst was at my brother's graduation, where I don't know what they said, but it was nowhere close.

I'm certainly not going to challenge what you say. If you say your related to Nap I believe you.
But, are there other nephews out there. I can only tell you what I did see in an interview years ago and at that time wrote down the pronunciation that nephew gave, He pronounced it Lah-Shu-way.

I'm not here to debate what you say, not being a blood relative your pronunciation would have to be accepted.
But, is there a possibility that some family members do pronounce it differently.

[leewileyfan]

Not to be contentious, here; but this is fun.

For a final "e" to be pronounced as "AYE" it has to be marked by an accent aigu [sp?] which slants diagonally from upper right to lower left [like the slash mark on a keyboard that shares space with the question mark. Otherwise, the "e" is totally silent. [How'm I doing so far, Mr. Trezza?]

That either leaves you with "OI" = "WA" as in French; OR "OY" as in OINK [English].

La-JOO-AY ten seems a bit of a tortured attempt to "sound" French.

[flash143817]

Dan Brouthers= Dan "Brothers" or "Brow-thers?"

Broothers like Brewers, but with a "th" after the w.

[StanTheMan]

Napoléon "Nap" Lajoie (English pronunciation: /ˈlæʒəweɪ/; September 5, 1874 – February 7, 1959)

Piece of cake!

[jnakamura]

I've always heard 'La-shu-way'. But NASCAR driver Randy Lajoie pronounces it "La-joy".

In many (most...all) cases it's simply up to the individual family.

A simple example is the French surname "Gilbert". Most Americans with this name pronounce it GIL-bert. But of course back in the "old country" (and in Eastern Canada) it's pronounced Zshil-BEAR. I've got a friend with the surname "Dube", again, French, which in France is pronounced Doo-BAY...but he and his family pronounce it "Doobie" LOL

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Might as well keep it going.
Looked at at least a dozen sources, one from Nap himself. The most used pronunciationt is Lah-zhwa. La-joy is out.
Nap himself said he often heard La-joy but that was wrong and he preferred Laj-a-way.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

I've always heard 'La-shu-way'. But NASCAR driver Randy Lajoie pronounces it "La-joy".

Randy may be using an American type pronunciation Nap himself being French preferred La shu-way.

I have to go with the French version.

Another example....Calamari...Cal-a-mar-ee, thats the way it looks but it's an Italian or Latin word. Being Sicilian I pronounce it .....Cal-a-ma-dee and so do most Italians. Many Italian words the "R" is often pronounced as a "D".
French name, I go with La-shu way or La-shu wah...... get rid of that La-joy.