Cuban Players Defectors

[Cubano100%]

Cuban Players in MLB or Minor Leagues

Danys Baez Pitcher Devil Rays
Livan Hernandez Pitcher Nationals
Orlando Hernandez Pitcher White Sox
Jose Contreras Pitcher White Sox
Alain Soler Pitcher Mets
Yuniesky Betancourt SS/2B Mariners
Kendry Morales 1B/3B/Outfielder Angels
Brayan Pena C Braves
Michel Hernandez C Cardinals
Ariel Prieto Pitcher Marlins
Jorge Toca 1b White sox
Michael Tejera Pitcher Rangers
Juan Diaz 1B Cardinals
Vladimir Nunez Pitcher Indians
Raul Valdez Pitcher Cubs
Alex Sanchez Outfielder Giants
Eddy Oropeza Pitcher Orioles
Juan Muniz Outfielder Marlins
Yobal Duenas 2B/3B Yankees
Arian Cruz Pitcher Reds
Hansel Izquierdo Pitcher Pirates
Maikel Jova Outfielder Blue Jays
Joel Perez Outfielder Yankees
Maique Quintero Pitcher Nationals
Gary Galvez Pitcher Red Sox
Yunel Escobar SS/3B Braves
Saydel Beltran Pitcher Yankees
Mael Rodriguez Pitcher Diamondbacks
Jose Cordero Pitcher Twins
Rafael Galvizo Pitcher Marlins
Roberto Sotolongo Pitcher Cubs
Miguel Perez Pitcher Mets
William Plaza Catcher Yankees


In other countries waiting legal papers and holding tryouts:

Dominican Republic

Francisley Bueno Pitcher
Osbeck Castillo Pitcher
Juan Miguel Miranda Outfielder
Ayalen Ortiz Outfielder
Donell Linares Infielder


Costa Rica/Nicaragua

Michel Abreu 1B
Barbaro Canizares Outfielder/1B/C
Mikel Neninger Pitcher
Yosandry Ibanez Pitcher
Amaury Sanit Pitcher

USA

Amaury Casanas Outfielder
Hassan Pena Pitcher
Reinier Bermudez Pitcher

[Cubano100%]

Yunel Escobar is ranked # 4 among Braves' best prospect

Yunel Escobar: Individual Stats (Batting)
Team From To G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG
Rome Braves 06/18 06/18 48 198 30 62 13 3 4 19 93 14 30 0 2 .358 .470 .313Danville Braves 06/21 06/29 8 30 9 12 2 1 2 8 22 5 4 0 0 .472 .733 .400
Rome Braves 06/29 09/05 48 198 30 62 13 3 4 19 93 14 30 0 2 .358 .470 .313

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Yunel%20Escobar&pos=SS&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&did=milb&pid=488862


Gary Galvez: Individual Stats (Pitching)
Team From To W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV IP H R ER HR BB SO
Greenville Bombers 04/08 09/05 10 4 3.35 31 18 0 0 0 126.1 118 64 47 12 40 87

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=G%20Galvez&pos=P&t=p_pbp&did=milb&pid=465008

Kendry Morales is ranked # 5 among Angels' prospects
Kendry Morales: Individual Stats (Batting)
Team From To G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG
Rancho Cucamonga Quakes 05/21 06/13 22 90 18 31 3 0 5 17 49 6 11 0 0 .400 .544 .344
Arkansas Travelers 06/13 09/04 74 281 47 86 12 0 17 54 149 17 43 2 0 .349 .530 .306
Surprise Scorpions 10/04 11/10 24 92 19 35 14 0 2 18 55 12 13 0 0 .444 .598 .380

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Morales%20%201B&pos=&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&did=milb&pid=434778

Arian Cruz: Individual Stats (Pitching)
Team From To W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV IP H R ER HR BB SO
VSL Reds 05/17 07/07 2 0 0.00 5 2 0 0 0 13.2 4 0 0 0 0 17
Chattanooga Lookouts 07/23 09/05 3 1 3.26 13 0 0 0 0 19.1 23 9 7 1 6 16

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Arian%20Cruz&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&did=milb&pid=485566

Brayan Pena: Individual Stats (Batting)
Team From To G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG
Richmond Braves 04/08 09/01 81 282 27 92 21 2 0 25 117 28 19 3 1 .383 .415 .326
Atlanta Braves 05/23 10/02 18 39 2 7 2 0 0 4 9 1 7 0 0 .200 .231 .179

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Brayan%20Pena&pos=C&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&did=milb&pid=430910

Roberto Sotolongo 3 2 .600 1.88 .187 11 2 43.0 32 15 9 10 37
http://www.dominicansummerleague.com/estadisticas/east/chicagocubs.htm

Alain Soler is ranked #10 among the Met's best prospects

The following players are young enough and have time to develop:
Juan Miguel Miranda
Ayalan Ortiz
Osbeck Castillo
Francisley Bueno

The following are running out of time:
Barbaro Canizares
Michel Abreu

Note: Does anyone remember pitcher Jose Ibar?
He started one of the two games for Cuba against the Orioles. The rumor in Cuba is that he was caught trying to defect 2 years ago and was in jail. Because the Cuban government does not comment about these issues, I am unable to corroborate the story. If this is true, I hope he can get out of it soon. He has not been in the roster for the Havana Cowboys for the last couple of years. He has run out of time!

[El Nino Linares]

Trust me when i tell you that 2006 will be Kendry's year to make people start to talk i see things in him similiar to Linares, just that Linares was put on the Cuban national team as the third hitter at the age of 15.... out of left field...
And all of those Cuban prospects are not as young as they could be.... If they would have defected b4... And would have studied in this country and were schooled, fed, and trained here well then things would be alot different i bet you that atleast 1/2 of them would be starting on a team right now......

[jalbright]

One question is, how many of these guys lost large chunks of time (half a season or more away from top level competition) in the process of defecting? That plus the family back in Cuba effectively being hostages explains a lot, if not everything.

Jim Albright

[jalbright]

From another thread:

You have good players in [Japan] but they dont fair too good in the majors the only two worth mentioning is Ichiro, and Matsui (Yankee)... Bc everyone else is good for a while and then they get rocked.....

You missed Iguchi. Also, while I sympathize with your positions on Cuban players who defect (they had significant lapses in play against top competition, the families back home as virtual hostages, older players, cultural differences, etc), don't the Japanese deserve consideration for the same issues? How many Japanese come over before age 30? Since they have to serve nine years in that system before they can come over unless their teams agree, darned few. Nomo probably outshined El Duque in the majors. Sasaki and Hasegawa had some good years pitching, though Hasegawa had some quite rough ones. Contreras and the Livan Hernandez haven't greatly outshone those two so far. What every day players can Cuban defectors put up to match Iguchi, H. Matsui or Ichiro? Both sides have some positives, both some weaknesses. Certainly, neither players from Japan nor Cuba can simply come to the majors if they want to when they want to. Either way, the pool going to the majors is limited by factors beyond the players' control. Rather than knock the other side's performances in the majors, let's discuss why the performances were what they were--and, more importantly, recognize that there are pools of talent in each country that aren't being allowed the opportunity to play in the majors or minors.

Jim Albright

[El Nino Linares]

That is very good that we have some people who understand... The truth is that they do waste a lot of time on the defecting... Going to other countries, and then getting citizenship in this country and try to get their families out... I think that certain things that are unseen... I know those family members suffer in Cuba bc their father is the US and the govt as well as the people that are communist get on them and call them names throw things at them, etc....

[Cubano100%]

Cuban authorities take away players passports when the team travels abroad. On the other hand, if you defect while not traveling with the team, Cuban authorities won't allow you to apply for a passport. Cuban players have to gain citizenship in other countries to get a passport for traveling to America. Often, this is a long process.

First: The story of Juan Diaz, "the Cuban Thunder" (Industriales Lions)
http://www.minorleaguenews.com/baseball/affiliated/aaa/international/redwings/articles2005/05/11/01.html

Second: Former Reds pitcher Jose Rijo saved 6 Cubans from deportation

Juan Miranda (Pinar del Rio Cigar Growers) and Ayalen Ortiz (Industriales Lions)
http://www.washtimes.com/sports/20050303-021417-1224r.htm

Last: The story of Orlando "El Duke" Hernandez who once said: "I have played for the two best teams in the world: The New York Yankees and The Industriales Lions"
http://www.tuftsprimarysource.org/issues/20/08/duke.of.havana.html

[Cubano100%]

He used to throw 100 and 101 mph consistenly. He established a new record for most strikeouts in the Cuban National League. He could not top 88 mph while holding tryouts. It is believed he had back problems prior to his defection. The Diamondbacks selected him in the later rounds during 2005 draft. I hope they put him under the knive or fix him. He is still young. One scout once said he was worth 100 millions, but now he is not worth a penny.
Too bad that the world has not been able to see his talent. Hopefully, he can comeback. He was assigned to play for the Owls(A), but he was not used in any games. This leave me to assume that Arizona is trying to fix him or that he was released.

Does anyone knows anything new about this guy?

[Cubano100%]

Where are the scouts? He is very young and with tons of talent. He will be a first round pick in 2006.

Originally Posted by joe-fan:
Hassan Pena was seen at Jupiter, Florida on the 18th of this month. He pitched two innings, and needless to say he had great stuff! He struck out 4, had great comand, and his fast-ball was in the nineties. He seemed bigger(more muscular). Rumor has it that he is going to stay in the U.S. and enter the draft.People are going ape-sht over that because its said that he is going to play at Palm Beach Community college this semester. Their season starts in January and the coach there is Alex Morales, also a Cuban who use to play MLB.




Stay tune, more defections are coming. Poor Castro.
:dance

[Ichiro51]

From another thread:



You missed Iguchi.

Another person also said Iguchi is a fluke because he can't turn a clean DP.

[Cubano100%]

Another person also said Iguchi is a fluke because he can't turn a clean DP.


Ichiro51:

We had our argument and I wished you good day in the WBC Thread. This is a Thread for Cuban defectors. If you wish, you can opened your own Thread about Japanese baseball.

[Ichiro51]

I assume agree with Jim Albright requires me to create another thread for it?

[jalbright]

Please, Ichiro51 and Cubano100%, don't drag me into your battles. I think both of you have knowledge and both have something valuable to say--but from where I sit, when the two of you post in the same thread, you irritate each other to the point it's a simple spitting match. I don't want any part of that.

Jim Albright

[Cubano100%]

Hassan Pena will stay here and enter the draft

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Crack of the Bat

More Jupiter Part 3

By Blaine Clemmens



At the close of Jupiter report #2, I was headed to the stadium to catch Friday's 12:40 game between the NY/SF Bandit Stars and Louisiana All Star Baseball Team. There was a buzz in the complex about the starting pitcher for the Bandit Stars, a young Cuban named Hassan Pena. So I joined dozens of other scouts to watch Pena's two inning outing. For me he lived up to the buzz.



The team Pena was to face, Louisiana All Star Baseball Team, is generally a very quality team, with a number of upper level D1 and professional prospects. When scouting and evaluating players of any age, it is always helpful if you get a chance to do so when they are facing quality competition. For that reason, Perfect Game's showcases and tournaments are extremely valuable to both MLB scouts and college coaches. They know when they come to scout a PG/WWBA tournament they are going to see the top players competing against each other, and in the case of WWBA tourneys, they will see them competing in wood bat tournaments.



So as we all settled into our seats, about 20 minutes before game time. Whenever there is a standout pitcher scheduled to pitch, scouts generally will get to that game early. We want to get there in time to watch the pitcher warm up. It is fun to get a look at prospects from the time they are playing catch and long toss in the outfield all the way through their pre-game bullpen session. It is not only fun, but it is very useful. Watching a pitcher play long toss can tell you a lot about his arm action, arm strength, and the effort with which he throws. With the good ones, the ball just comes out of their hand much easier. They reach long distances with easy effort.



Pena is one of the good ones. He is not a physically imposing right-hander, but has a quality frame - 6'2" 205 lbs. with a strong lower half and a loose and wiry upper half, an excellent build for a pitcher. He pitches from a 3/4 slot with a very loose and easy arm action. The ball came out of his hand easily.



Pena's delivery had some similarities to Jose Contreras of the White Sox. He has a relaxed little leg kick and fluidity throughout his delivery, maintaining good rhythm. As for his stuff, well, Pena caught everyone's attention when he was warming up at 89-90 mph. He also teased us with his breaking ball and change-up during the warm-ups. Yes, it appeared that we all had made the right decision to scout the young Cuban righty.



During Pena's two innings he was pitching comfortably in the 91-93 range with explosive life at the plate. Pena has a sleepy and rhythmic sort of delivery that can relax hitters a bit. It is clear that Pena throws hard, so yes, hitters are geared up for that when they step in the box. However, most hitters are taught to approach pitchers with what is called "soft to fine focus" and that approach, which is the proper approach, can play into the favor of pitchers that have sleepy, relaxed deliveries. The best hitters will still be on time, but generally those are the hitters who have excellent timing mechanisms and bat speed, and yes, that is why they are the best hitters.



If you are not aware of what "soft to fine focus" means, get in touch with a local hitting coach, he should be able to demonstrate or explain it to you. Basically, it means the hitter trains his eyes to focus softly on the bigger image of the pitcher on the mound and the background around him. As the pitcher progresses through his delivery, the hitter starts to gradually narrow his focus, ultimately being totally focused by the time the pitcher's hand reaches the window from where the ball comes out.



That is why you see so many young hitters with poor timing. Some of them have plenty of natural bat speed but have not mastered the ability to stay relaxed until the ball is ready to come out of the pitcher's hand. So many young hitters are intensely focused as soon as they step into the box, which causes them to be tense. No hitter can hit with tension. Then again, there are also many young hitters that have good bat speed, but they are too relaxed in their approach, which causes a late timing mechanism.



Ok, this was not supposed to be a hitting lesson, but if one talented player reads this and is able to apply some of that to his game and becomes a prospect, then it was a good lesson to offer. As for Pena, he is a prospect right now and I believe he is subject to the amateur draft. If that is the case, his performance certainly earned him some money.



Besides that lively fastball, he also showed a plus breaking ball, a 73-76 mph curveball with a very sharp change of direction. It looked perhaps like he was throwing a spike curveball. In any case, he was very aggressive with that pitch and frankly, I love watching pitchers that throw the curveball aggressively. Pena also showed a very usable 77-78 mph change-up. He kept all of his stuff down in the zone and got a lot of ground balls. Pena has power stuff, but he can pitch with it, which will allow him to keep his pitch counts down, which will allow him to reach back and get something extra later in games when he wants or needs a strikeout.



Ok, so clearly I liked Pena. He is an upper round talent, but like I said, I think he is subject to the draft, but not for sure. As for some players from that game that are draft eligible, the players that stood out the most to me were Tyler Slocum, a SS/OF for the Louisiana team, his teammate, catcher Dillon Guillory (committed to Louisiana-Lafayette), and for the NY/SF team I liked SS Jonathan Fernandez (son of Tony Fernandez, former MLB All-Star shortstop), and to a lesser extent, right-hander Nick McCalley (committed to Coastal Carolina).



Slocum has tools that stand out for the pro game. He has a plus arm from both SS and the outfield, which he showed off during the Skill Show workout, reaching 90+ from each position. Not only does he have the arm, he is at least an average runner and is athletic. Though his swing is a bit long, he does get the barrel to the ball pretty well and he is strong with some physical projectability (6'0" 170).



Right now he is a strong prospect as a draft and follow, but with some refinement in his game, particularly his fielding technique at SS and better timing with the bat, it is conceivable to see him going around the 15th round and going out next summer. He reminded me somewhat of a high school shortstop from Hamilton HS in Arizona that was drafted and signed in the 4th round with the Cubs this past draft, Dylan Johnston. The difference is that Johnston is a left hand hitter and a notch better runner, thus he was a 4th rounder. Johnston was known to be very signable and Slocum could be too, as we were informed his academic record has kept him from receiving D1 offers at this point.



Guillory is a strong armed catcher with quick footwork and a quick arm. In that game against NY/SF he threw out a runner and I had him in the range of 1.90 on that throw. Now, I might have been a smidge off (though I don't feel like I was), but regardless, he tossed a laser right on the bag. In the Skill Show workout he showed the same type of footwork and arm strength. Guillory also showed strong block and recover abilities and a playable bat. Did I mention that he is a switch hitter with a 6'1" 185 lb. frame? There will be some pro interest in Guillory as switch hitting catchers with excellent catch/throw skills are not real common, especially at the high school level.



There is another good '06 prospect on the Louisiana team, 6'5" 175 lb. RHP T.J. Forrest, but I did not see him. Oh wait, there was another '06 on Louisiana that sort of caught my eye, though not particularly from a pro perspective. Chandler Laurent is a 5'10" 170 lb. OF/MIF with a plus arm. He showed good defensive abilities and fundamentals in both the outfield and infield. Laurent is an athlete with some tools and should be followed.



A couple of quality '07 arms were on the Louisiana team. Though I did not see him in Jupiter but have seen on a couple of other occasions, LHP Forrest Moore is one to watch in the coming year. The '07 arm I did see and thought deserved some mention, at least from the college perspective was RHP Jordy Poche.



Poche is a small righty (5'9" 165), but he touched up to 91 in his first inning against NY/SF and sat in the 86-88 range for quite awhile. He showed a hard rolling 72-73 mph curveball and an excellent change-up that he threw with command and plus arm speed. Poche also showed the ability to both sink and cut his fastball. Quite a bit of pitchability with him, he will be a good college recruit because of that and because pro ball will shy away from him.



As for the NY/SF Bandit Stars, I did like RHP Nick McCalley, who I saw on two occasions in Jupiter. The concern I had with him was not his stuff or abilities, and if he was really the 6'3" 185 lbs. he was listed at, then he is a legit prospect. However, there is no way (and I am not the only one that felt this way) he is 6'3" 185 - more like 5'11" 200 for me. I did like the quick arm, the 87-90 mph fastball (T91) with sink and the late breaking 71-73 mph curveball he was able to throw for strikes.



Fernandez was another player that caught my eye on the NY/SF team. He has such similar actions and body type of his father that for any fan that watches as much baseball as I have my whole life, it was obvious that he had to be related to former All-Star and Gold Glove winning shortstop Tony Fernandez. His actions were fluid and he made plays on the run look easy. He is a switch hitter and appears to be much more physical than his father would have been at a similar age, though I must tell you that my history of watching Tony is limited to seeing him on TV with the Blue Jays, among other teams. After all, I am only 32 and was 10 years old when he broke into the Big Leagues in 1983.



That is another of the great things about scouting high profile PG events like WWBA in Jupiter, there are always sons of ex-big leaguers and those players always get at least a second look. The genes and lineage of a player is very important when considering the type of player a youngster may become. There is also the factor of those players having polished games and a general comfort level around the game. Though it is not a guarantee that a son of an ex-big leaguer is going to be a future star or even prospect, but there are plenty that are.



Some of present day crop of sons of ex-big leaguers or those with pro athlete lineage that were in Jupiter include Fernandez, INF Marcus Lemon (father is former All-Star Chet Lemon, OF with White Sox and Tigers, now the coach of Chet Lemon's Juice), RHP Chris Andujar (father is former All-Star Joaquin Andujar, RHP with Astros and Cardinals), SS Justin Jackson (I believe his uncle is former NBA All-Star Brad Daugherty), RHP Tyree Hayes (father Charlie Hayes, 3B with Phillies, Yankees, Giants, Rockies), don't think he attended (injured) but was on a roster and has attended PG/WWBA events - RHP Kyle Drabek (father is former All-Star and Cy Young winner Doug Drabek, RHP with Pirates, Astros, others), and SS Steve Lombardozzi (father Steve Lombardozzi, SS with Twins, Astros). The likelihood is that there were others there too.



After the hitting lesson tangent and the ex-big league dad thing, I am not going to get to the night games from the Friday at 2005 WWBA Championships. However, I promise to get to them in the next report. They were well worth my time and there were plenty of prospects to report about. But I am not finished with this report because...



I missed a couple of the best young prospects in the earlier blocks of games. An '07 RHP (6'5" 190) named Rick Porcello, pitching for the Farrah's Builders team out of New Jersey, was seen up to 94 mph by the scouts covering his game and his teammate, '06 LHP (6'2" 170) Jeffrey Locke also reportedly touched up to 93 in a relief appearance in that game. I did see Locke later in the tournament and was very impressed by him. Locke is a quick armed lefty with wide, sloped shoulders and a good, leveraged delivery. He tilted the fastball and in the two innings I saw he was 88-91.



I also like his breaking ball and saw him lock up hitters with its tight spin and late action.

I had velocity readings for his curveball anywhere from 78 mph down to 68 mph but the shape seemed to be about the same, a hard 12/6 breaker. He came in with the fastball against righties and I felt like he showed some pitchability. Gotta love those strong armed cold weather (he is from New Hampshire) lefties with athletic and projectable bodies. Look for Locke to possibly get some early round consideration this spring. A 6'2" 170 lb. lefty with the ability to reach up to 93 and with a good hook, yeah, I think someone will like him.



While I was watching Hassan Pena, I missed two RHP prospects for the East Coast Grays in their game against Midland. Brian Dupra, a 6'3" 180 lb. RHP from Rochester, New York was reportedly 88-92 against Midland. Rawnsley had given Dupra's name as a kid to see if I got a chance. Well, I missed my chance when watching Pena. I also missed him teammate, 6'4" 185 lb. '07 RHP Matt Harvey. I was told by our scouts that in that same game against Midland that Harvey was up to 94 mph. To boot, on the second day he showed big time resilience by reaching up to 93 mph, though I missed that game as well.



So, as you can see, there is not a perfect science for one roving scout to catch all the top action. You roll the dice, commit to a game, get out of it what you can, then move on to another one. Do I wish I had missed Pena to see Harvey and Dupra? I was disappointed, but that is just the way it goes. If I had seen Dupra and Harvey, that would mean I missed Pena and that would have also disappointed me.



The point I need to make here is that even though I did not see them, our Perfect Game staff did, and they are able to report it. Again, a fine illustration of why these events are such a valuable service to the game. Our listing of all the pitchers that registered fastballs above 88 mph just goes to show how many quality players were in Jupiter.

[Cubano100%]

Orlando "El Duke" Hernandez (Mr. October)

3 World Series Rings with The New York Yankees
1999 ALCS MVP with The New York Yankees
1 World Series Ring with The Chicago White Sox
Post Season Record 9 wins 3 loses 2.55 ERA

Livan Hernandez

1 World Series Ring with the Florida Marlins
World Series and NLCS MVP with the Florida Marlins
Post Season Record 6 wins 2 loses 3.99 ERA
2005 Washington Nationals All Star

Jose Contreras

1 World Series Ring with The Chicago White Sox
Post Season Record 3 wins and 3 loses 3.77 ERA

Rolando Arrojo

1998 Tampa Bay Devil Rays All Star

Danys Baez

2005 Tampa Bay Devil Rays All Star

Rey Ordonez

3 Times Gold Glove Winner with The New York Mets

[Cubano100%]

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/baseball/13386734.htm

Cuban Bárbaro Cañizares, who is playing in Nicaragua, wants the opportunity to show he can play in the major leagues.BY KEVIN BAXTERkbaxter@herald.comFifty dollars.
That's all it took to change Bárbaro Cañizares' life forever. And though time will ultimately tell if it's changed for better or worse, on at least one level worse seems to be winning. In a rout.

''I can't stand not being with him,'' said Onix Vargas, a Miami beautician and the Cuban ballplayer's girlfriend of 12 years. ``It hurts. I want him with me, because I want to start a family. We want to start a family. But we can't do that if we're apart.''

And they have been apart for more than a year, since shortly after Cañizares said goodbye to the rest of his family in Cuba to begin a complicated journey that took him to the Bahamas, Florida, Mexico, Costa Rica and finally to Nicaragua, where he leads that country's four-team winter league in hits (40), home runs (eight) and RBI (27) through 33 games.
That might be good enough to earn him a shot at playing -- and starting a family -- in the United States, which is all he has wanted. This month, the Yankees and Mets sent scouts to see Cañizares play with the Mets' Wilfredo Blanco, liking enough of what he saw to recommend a contract and a $20,000 bonus.

HAVING FAITH

''I have faith that I'll get the chance to go,'' Cañizares said from Managua, where he plays on a Boer team featuring fellow Cubans Michael Abreu, Yosandri Ibañez and Maikel Neninger. They left the island together in February 2004, placing them among the 29 baseball players who have defected from Cuba in the past two years but have yet to sign with big-league teams.

Cañizares' journey began shortly after he gave a fan in Havana the shirt off his back. What he didn't know, though, was the foreigner he sold his national team jersey to was an official with the U.S. Interests Section. Because of that, Cañizares received a lifetime suspension from Cuban baseball -- and left him no choice but to defect.

''That was like telling me I couldn't live,'' he told Nicaraguan journalist Edgard Rodriguez. ``My life was baseball. My dream was to make the Cuban team. I had no interest in politics.''
Sounds good, but the truth is a bit more complicated. An earlier defector, Osmani Garcia, told one baseball agent that Cañizares was ''crazy'' about leaving as far back as 1999 -- desires Cañizares confirmed in Mexico in 2002, days before security around the Cuban team was tightened following the defection of pitcher Jose Contreras.

The suspension, however, forced his hand.
''I was going to leave,'' he said. ``It didn't matter how.''
But he might have acted too late. Although Cañizares insists he is 26 years old, he already had played eight full seasons in the Cuban national series by 2002, when he was named MVP of the Intercontinental Cup tournament in Havana. The Cuban roster at that competition listed his birth date as Nov. 21, 1974, which would make him 31 now -- ancient for a 6-2, 220-pound catcher starting in pro ball.

AMONG THE LEADERS

On the plus side is his performance in Nicaragua, his first real competition in two years. Aside from his power numbers, Cañizares also ranks among the league leaders in doubles (eight), triples (three), runs (23) and batting (.325). Every one of those numbers is better than those of Abreu, who got a $425,000 bonus to sign with the Red Sox in September, only to have the deal voided when Abreu was unable to establish the proper residency to qualify for a visa, then was found to have lied about his age.
''All we want is the chance to go [to the U.S.] and demonstrate what we can do,'' said Abreu, who was hitting .264 with five homers and 15 RBI through 110 at-bats for Boer. ``For now, we've stopped here, but at least the possibility exists to go forward.''
And that's something -- among other things -- the players didn't have in Cuba.
''Everyone is free to think, to act, to do what they want,'' said Neninger, who was 2-3 with a 4.10 ERA in seven games. ``That allows us to overcome the other things we don't have, like money, to reach our goals.''

Added Cañizares, who gets about $2,000 a month plus room and board in Nicaragua: ``We're better off here than in Cuba, because at least we're free and we can do what we want and achieve what we can. We feel bad, because we haven't accomplished what we want. But we have faith we'll get the chance.''

[Cubano100%]

Complete stats, click below:

http://www.lnbp.net/pro-stats.htm


Barbaro Canizares y Michel Abreu are killing the pitching in Nicaragua.

Home Runs

Bárbaro Cañizares, Bo 9
Michel Abreu, Bo 9
Wilson Batista, Ch 5 (Dominican)

AVERAGE

Wilson Batista, Ch .347
Bárbaro Cañizares, Bo .336
Danilo Sotelo, SF .333
Próspero González, Ch .322
Justo Rivas, Le .311
Michel Abreu, Bo .308

RBI

Bárbaro Cañizares, Bo 34
Wilson Batista, Ch 31
Carlos Villalobos, Ch 27
Michel Abreu, Bo 25

[Cubano100%]

Alay Soler did not pitch to much in 2 years. Only 15 innings in the 2004 Dominican Winter league. Even tough he had a 5.34 ERA, he struck out 22 batters.

Now he is pitching for the Ponce Lions in Puerto Rico. In 14 innings, he has not allowed a run yet.

To our Boricua friends: Is there a place that list the players stats in Puerto Rico?

Even though he will go to Spring training, he will start the season in Port Lucie. The Mets want to protect him from the April cold weather. He may push one of the back end starter out of the rotation sooner than expected though.

"For those who think that the Cuban national league is A Ball"

Canizares, Abreu, Alexis Hernandez, Mikel Jova, Miguel Perez and Arian Cruz (excellent ERA) performances in Nicaragua; Soler in Puerto Rico; Raul Valdez and Brayan Pena good performances in the Dominican should leave no doubt that the Cuban National league is the strongest A league in the world.


PUERTO RICO

Soler vence a los Lobos
ARECIBO -- El cubano Alay Soler no permitió carreras en cinco actos en la victoria 6-1 de los Leones de Ponce sobre los Lobos de Arecibo.
Soler, quien lanza por primera vez en Puerto Rico como pelotero profesional, no ha permitido carreras en 14 actos.
Su apertura el miércoles fue la primera en lo que va del torneo, ya que los Leones lo estaban usando como relevista.

http://www.miami.com/mld/elnuevo/sports/13417779.htm

[Cubano100%]

Some Cubans among the Italian oriundos!



SQUADRA-Team GIOCATORE-Defector

Palfinger Reggio Emilia Julio Villalon


http://www.baseball.it/dati_squadra.asp?ID=331&anno=2005


C. dei Normanni Paternò Jesus Ametler


http://www.baseball.it/dati_squadra.asp?ID=205&anno=2005


Caffè Danesi Nettuno Roberto Colina
Caffè Danesi Nettuno William Ortega

http://www.baseball.it/dati_squadra.asp?ID=105&anno=2005

[Cubano100%]

12/16/2005 4:37 PM ET
Soler is Mets dark horse reliever
Former Cuban star hopes to impress this spring
By Kevin T. Czerwinski / MLB.com

Mets Headlines



It's no secret that the Mets have been trying to beef up their pitching staff, particularly their starting rotation. Kris Benson has spent time on the trading block this winter as general manager Omar Minaya continues looking for ways to tinker, hoping to find a way to upgrade a solid but not outstanding staff.
Minaya may not have to look further than his own organization to find a dark horse candidate who could provide the help he seeks. Alay Soler, the Cuban defector whom New York finally brought into the fold at the end of October, has been brilliant so far while pitching for Ponce in the Puerto Rican Winter League. While it's difficult to get too excited about statistics, especially in the watered down world of the Winter Leagues, Soler seems to offer more than a glimmer of hope in what many believe has become a pitching-depleted system.

The hard-throwing right-hander is 1-0 in four games (two starts) for Ponce and hasn't allowed a run in 14 innings. He's struck out nine and walked five while opposing hitters are batting .104 against him. In contrast, Jason Scobie, who pitched last season at Triple-A Norfolk and led the organization with 15 victories, was 1-2 with a 10.50 ERA in four starts for Ponce with the opposition hitting .418 against him.

"I feel good, but it still feels like I have a little bit more to go until I'm 100 percent," said Soler, 26, whose only other meaningful innings since he pitched for the Cuban National Team in 2003 were the 15 1/3 he recorded last year in the Dominican Winter League. "It's not injuries or anything like that. I just haven't pitched in a while. I'm still fine tuning everything. Everything is starting to take off the way it's supposed to, though.

"I didn't feel I'd be this effective coming in here, but I'm working hard and everything is now falling into place little by little. I'm effective and that's all that counts. I hope the club takes that into consideration for next [2006] season."

While the club will give Soler a long look in the spring, it's difficult to say where he would fit in, especially if Benson is still in the picture. There are already six starters for five spots with Brian Bannister waiting in the wings at Norfolk. He would conceivably compete with Jae Seo, who had a remarkable August, and Victor Zambrano, who lost his spot in the rotation. New York's middle and long relief remains a muddled situation so there is the possibility that Soler could come out of the 'pen if he pitches well enough in camp to make the team.

"I'm not worried about it," said Soler, who went 10-4 with a 2.01 ERA in 125 1/3 innings for Pinar Del Rio of the Cuban League in 2003, striking out 102 and walking only 17. I know I have to work hard to earn a spot. Everyone is there for one reason and that's to help the team. Whatever role I have, that's what I'll do to help the team."

Soler will be back in the United States next week, closing on his new Virginia waterfront home. Next Friday, he's planning on visiting the Children's Hospital in Norfolk and has already made a substantial donation to the Ronald McDonald House. Soler loves children, and he wants to do his part for the holidays. He left his two sons in Cuba and although he speaks to them regularly, he hasn't seen them since he defected in 2004.

Though Soler will return to Puerto Rico after the holidays to continue pitching for Ponce, he's scheduled to participate in the 15th annual Rookie Career Development Program in Virginia in mid-January. While he's already experienced so much during his time in Cuba and during his subsequent flight to and exile in the Dominican Republic, he wants to participate in the program in an effort to get better acclimated to life in the Major Leagues.

"I've had good times and bad times, but I feel at this time I have an open road ahead of me," said Soler, who signed a three-year $2.8 million deal in 2004. "I basically led the big league life when I played for Cuba though it wasn't much. I was living the lifestyle on the National Team."

As for his friends and teammates on Cuba's National Team, Soler said that he was sad to hear that they may not be able to participate in next spring's World Baseball Classic because of the United States embargo on his country.

"It's too bad because the young guys can't come here and show everyone what they have," said Soler, whose repertoire includes a fastball, sinker, slider, changeup and occasional knuckleball. "Still, I'd like the U.S. to put together a Cuban team that I can play for and represent my country that way."

Soler expects to arrive in St. Lucie sometime in late January, three weeks ahead of report time for Spring Training. He wants to continue working out and not lose any of the ground he has gained by pitching in Puerto Rico.

"He can't wait to get to the U.S. and play baseball for the Mets," Soler's agent Joe Rosario said. "He goes to sleep early every night so the next day can come."


Kevin T. Czerwinski is a reporter for MLB.com. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.

http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051216
&content_id=1283417&vkey=news_nym&fext=.jsp&c_id=nym


By the way, Mr. Brian Banister got rocked by Cuba in Holland. The American team did not show up for the game to decide the fifth place. The American team went shopping instead of playing the game. I wonder how the people in Holland perceived that.

[Agente Libre]

The U.S. skipped their last game because the field was unplayable, not because they wanted to go shopping.

[Cubano100%]

The U.S. skipped their last game because the field was unplayable, not because they wanted to go shopping.

Was the USA the only team that found the field unplayable?

[Agente Libre]

There was a huge rainstorm and the field was not in good shape. It did not make sense to risk injury over 5th place in a tournament that really didn't mean much anyway.

[Cubano100%]

In Nicaragua, Cuban Michel Abreu of Boer Indians hit 2 home runs in a game and leads the league with 11.

Where are the Marlins?

I wonder why they can not fill the stadium.

[Agente Libre]

From what I've heard, Abreu still can't sign a contract because his papers aren't in order.

[Cubano100%]

From what I've heard, Abreu still can't sign a contract because his papers aren't in order.

That was when Boston voided his contract. He was in Mexico first. Then, he went to Costa Rica where Cubans have solved their legal status in the past. Now, he is in Nicaragua. I bet you he has some type of Costa Rican document when he can travel to Nicaragua. If he does not have one, I guess he will get Nicaraguan citizenship by playing there and promoting their new league. Money talks!

[Agente Libre]

Maybe, but he's been out of Cuba for 2 years, so something has gone wrong in his situation. I doubt Boston would have voided his contract if they thought his paperwork would be resolved quickly.

[Cubano100%]

In Nicaragua, Cuban Barbaro Canizares of Boer Indians hit a home run and now has 10 behind fellow Cuban Michel Abreu that has 11.

[Cubano100%]

I just found out with other Cubans that pitcher Reinier Bermudez (Metropolitanos Warriors and Industriales Lions) is in the USA. He played in the 44 Series.

He will be entering the 2006 MLB draft.

Man, we need some hitters to defect. What is going on with Cuban pitchers? The pitchers are leading the hitters in defections. I guess the 32 millions given to Jose Contreras has somthing to do with it.

Everybody expects Kendry Morales to put big numbers soon. That is a lot of pressure on this guy. But Super Kendry is young and have some time to adjust to his new life.




Barbaro Canizares y Michel Abreu are killing the pitching in Nicaragua.

Home Runs

Michel Abreu, Bo 11
Bárbaro Cañizares, Bo 10
Wilson Batista, Ch 6 (Dominican)

AVERAGE

Bárbaro Cañizares, Bo .350
Wilson Batista, Ch .349
Justo Rivas, Le .313
Michel Abreu, Bo .309

RBI

Wilson Batista, Ch 38
Bárbaro Cañizares, Bo 37
Michel Abreu, Bo 32

[Cubano100%]

Do you want to watch a gorgeous play?

Click the below link:


http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=435358

Under Multimedia, select Betancourt's Gorgeous Play.




Michel Abreu hit his 12 leading Hr in Nicaragua.

[Cubano100%]

Notes: Betancourt drawing comparisons
Defensive similarities to Vizquel have infielder on fast track
By Chris Hester / Special to MLB.com

Yuniesky Betancourt entered Wednesday with one error over 44 games this season. (Jeff Roberson/AP)


SEATTLE -- Yuniesky Betancourt is making a good impression playing shortstop for the Mariners. The slick-fielding middle infielder is already being compared to one of the game's greatest defensive shortstops, former Mariner and current San Francisco Giant Omar Vizquel.
"Everybody keeps wanting to compare him to Vizquel, and I think that's good -- I don't think there's anything wrong with that," manager Mike Hargrove said of the comparison between his current shortstop and the 11-time Gold Glove Award winner he used to manage in Cleveland. "The difference between Omar and Yuni is that Omar's been doing it for 20 years and Yuni's been doing it for about a month. He certainly is a very talented defender, and I think he's going to hit."

Betancourt made a pair of defensive gems in Tuesday night's 2-1 victory over the Angels. In the first inning, Vladimir Guerrero hit a roller toward short with two outs and a runner on third base. Betancourt charged and picked the ball bare-handed before throwing a strike to first base to end the inning.

In the seventh inning, the Angels plated their only run of the game and had runners on the corners with two away when the left-handed-hitting Steve Finley lofted a ball down the left-field line. With left fielder Raul Ibanez shading Finley toward the gap, Betancourt was forced to race into the outfield, making the catch in foul ground with his back to the infield.

"The play he made down the line on the foul ball, that's as good a play as you'll see anybody make," Hargrove added. "I thought that was more impressive than the barehand [play], but they both were pretty good."

The 23-year-old Cuban has been almost flawless in the field, handling 149 chances at shortstop and making just one miscue for a .993 fielding percentage. At second base, he's handled 44 chances without making an error.

With the bat, Betancourt is hitting .222 with six doubles, four triples and seven RBIs in 42 games since being called up from Triple-A Tacoma on
July 28.

http://seattle.mariners.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20050914&content_id=1209622&vkey=news_sea&fext=.jsp&c_id=sea

[Cubano100%]

The Ponce Lions and Alain Soler beat The Arecibo Wolves 2 to 1.

Soler retired 20 consecutive hitters until Omar garcia hit a HR in the 7 th inning. Soler allowed only 2 hits.

Picture of Alain Soler
"El Toro/The Bull"
http://www.anteprima.net/Baseball/fotografie/FOTO/AlainSoler.jpg

[Cubano100%]

MAYAGUEZ, Puerto Rico.

The Ponce Lions beat the Mayaguez Indians 6-5.
Gabriel Martínez had 3 RBI in support of Cuban right handed Alain Soler (3-2).
Soler trew 7 innings in which he faced 25 batters. He allowed 2 Earned Runs on 3 hits. He also had 7 SO and 1 walk.

[Cubano100%]

Bold indicates Cuban defectors.

Batting Ave

Bárbaro Cañizares, Bo .352
Wilson Batista, Ch .333
Justo Rivas, Le .315
Michel Abreu, Bo .315
Henry Roa, Le .309
Edgard López, Ch .308
Alexis Hernández, Le .304
Danilo Sotelo, SF .304
Ofilio Castro, SF .301
Maikel Jova, Le .300

Hits

Bárbaro Cañizares, Bo 68
Wilson Batista, Ch 64
Maikel Jova, Le 61
Norman Cardoze, SF 56
Michel Abreu, Bo 56

2B

Walter Sevilla, Ch 13
Maikel Jova, Le 12


3B

Mario Holmann, SF 3
Wilson Batista, Ch 3
Bárbaro Cañizares, Bo 3
Rivas y Bonilla, Le 3

Home Runs

Michel Abreu, Bo 14
Bárbaro Cañizares, Bo 10
Wilson Batista, Ch 6
Danilo Sotelo, SF 5


Runs

Bárbaro Cañizares, Bo 42
Wilson Batista, Ch 36
Dwaine Bacon, Ch 36
Carlos Villalobos, Ch 36
Jimmy González, Bo 32
Danilo Sotelo, SF 31

RBI

Wilson Batista, Ch 42
Michel Abreu, Bo 39
Bárbaro Cañizares, Bo 37
Maikel Jova, Le 33
Alexis Hernández, Le 33
Carlos Villalobos, Ch 33
Norman Cardoze, SF 32

Stolen Bases

Mario Holmann, SF 13
Dwaine Bacon, Ch 12
Rogearvin Bernadina, SF 11



ERA

Aristides Sevilla, Le 1.34
Julio Raudez, Ch 1.60
Jairo Pineda, SF 2.45
Rafael Batista, SF 2.50
Miguel Pérez, Ch 2.54
Devorn Hansack, Le 2.79
Franklin Sánchez, SF 2.93
Miguel Gómez, Bo 3.23
Julio Villalón, Le 3.61
Olman Rostrán, Ch 3.66

Wins

Julio Raudez, Ch 10-0
Franklin Sánchez, SF 7-3
Miguel Pérez, Ch 7-3
Aristides Sevilla, Le 6-2
Rafael Batista, SF 6-5

Losses

Miguel Gómez, Bo 4-6
Maikel Neninger, Bo 2-5
Rafael Batista, SF 6-5

Saves

Boanerges Espinoza, Ch 9
Amauri Sanit, Le 8
Donald Calderón, SF 6
Pineda and Rojano, SF 4

Strikeouts

Devorn Hansack, Le 89
Franklin Sánchez, SF 68
Miguel Pérez, Ch 48
Miguel Gómez, Bo 44
Aristides Sevilla, Le 43

Walks

Estelin Soto, Bo 36
Rafael Batista, SF 33
Byron Zepeda, Bo 29
Devorn Hansack, Le 26
Neninger and Colón, Bo 24
Pérez, Ch and Pineda, SF 24

Innings

Franklin Sánchez, SF 76.2
Rafael Batista, SF 75.2
Devorn Hansack, Le 71.0
Aristides Sevilla, Le 67.1
Julio Raudez, Ch 67.1
Miguel Pérez, Ch 63.2
Miguel Gómez, Bo 61.1

Complete Games

Gómez, Bo and Sevilla, Le 1


Shutouts
Miguel Gómez, Bo 1

[Cubano100%]

Though I have written in the past that Winter Leagues are overrated, this is a good start for Soler. At least his performance has showed that his talent is above winter ball.


In Puerto Rico, the Ponce Lions beat the Manati Atenienses for the second straight game. Cuban right handed Alain Soler (Mets) tossed 6 innings of one hit ball.

Puerto Rican newspaper link: Spanish

http://www.primerahora.com/noticia.asp?guid=8752DC3E55124CD98EFE546081B3D5EF

From the Mets web site:

His Ponce teammate, Alay Soler, is the Cuban defector who seemingly looms larger in the Mets' plans now than he did a month ago. Soler has a 3-2 record and a 2.37 ERA in eight games -- six starts -- with 25 strikeouts and just 25 baserunners in 38 innings.

http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060106&content_id=1291951&vkey=news_nym&fext=.jsp&c_id=nym

[Cubano100%]

01/06/2006 1:27 PM ET


Pena producing big numbers this winter
Talented catcher among club's prospects having solid seasons

By Mark Bowman / MLB.com



There doesn't appear to be any room on the 2006 Atlanta roster for Brayan Pena. But the 24-year-old catcher appears ready to come to Spring Training with intentions of proving he's got the offensive skills necessary to be a productive big leaguer.
Coming off a season in which he hit .326 for Triple-A Richmond, Pena has continued his hot hitting in the Dominican Winter League. Playing for Gigantes, he produced a .326 batting average (49-for-168) with three homers and 25 RBIs.

The switch-hitting Pena was among the league leaders in several offensive categories. He ranked second in doubles (15), third in extra-base hits (19) and fifth in hits (61).

"The guy puts the ball in play and doesn't strike out," Braves assistant general manager Dayton Moore said. "He has incredible hand-eye coordination and is a winning-type baseball player. Every team he has been on, everybody has rallied around him and drawn from his energy."

Pena, who defected from his native Cuba in 2000, was promoted to Atlanta three times last year. He recorded a hit in his Major League debut (May 23), but ended up producing just a .179 batting average in 39 at-bats.



With Brian McCann set to be the starting catcher and Todd Pratt slated to be his backup, Pena will likely begin this season back in Richmond. But the organization has noticed the consistent offensive production he's continued to provide since signing in November 2000.

"He's established himself and given the organization a lot of confidence that he can play in the big leagues," Moore said. "He's just going to have to wait for the opportunity. One thing about him is that he's going to give you all he's got wherever he is."

Because Gigantes didn't qualify for the playoffs, Pena has joined Estrellas, which is currently playing in the round-robin portion of the league's playoffs.


http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060106&content_id=1291995&vkey=news_atl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl

[Cubano100%]

Cuban RHP pitcher and former Industriales Lions prospect Hassan Pena was clocked at 93 MPH in Juniper, Florida. He had one start to show his skills to the scouts and plan to enter the 2006 MLB Draft.

http://www.perfectgame.org/2005/stories/12_01_05_88_or_more.cfm

[Fermin Lafita]

Francisley Bueno and Canizares both signed with the Braves

[Cubano100%]

Francisley Bueno and Canizares both signed with the Braves



Looks like the Atlanta Braves are now the Havana Braves!

C Brayan Pena
SS Yunel Escobar
LF/C Barbaro Canizares
Pitcher Francisley Bueno


That is good news! How about Michel Abreu and Osbeck Castillo?

[Agente Libre]

What were the bonuses for Bueno and Canizares?

[Cubano100%]

Barbaro Canizares is traveling to the Dominican Republic to work out at the Braves baseball academy. He probably will start the season en AA.

[Agente Libre]

Maybe ... sounds like he doesn't have papers yet if he's traveling to D.R. instead of just going to Florida. He's practically old enough to be the father of some of the kids at the D.R. academy.

There were drug allegations swirling around Bueno; curious if the Braves were aware of that. (Before he defected, Bueno was supposedly booted off Cuba's 2004 Olympic team for failing a drug test.)

[bppb266]

First of all ..i want to say hello to everybody..specially to those who came from cuba and keep baseball on blood :-)

I want to apologize for my english. Its not perfect.

So.. here.. a list of cubans who were in winter leagues this year

NAME TEAM COUNTRY

FRANCISLEY BUENO LEONES DEL ESCOGIDO REPUBLICA DOMINICANA
OSBECK CASTILLO LEONES DEL ESCOGIDO REPUBLICA DOMINICANA
BRAYAN PEÑA GIGANTES DE CIBAO REPUBLICA DOMINICANA
RAUL VALDEZ AZUCAREROS DEL ESTE REPUBLICA DOMINICANA

RAFAEL GALBIZO CRIOLLOS DE CAGUAS PUERTO RICO
JOSE CORDERO CRIOLLOS DE CAGUAS PUERTO RICO
ALAY SOLER LEONES DE PONCE PUERTO RICO

ARIAN CRUZ LEONES DE LEON NICARAGUA
JULIO CESAR VILLALON LEONES DE LEON NICARAGUA
AMAURY SANIT LEONES DE LEON NICARAGUA
ALEXIS HERNANDEZ LEONES DE LEON NICARAGUA
MAIKEL JOVA LEONES DE LEON NICARAGUA
YOSANDRY IBAÑEZ BOER MANAGUA NICARAGUA
BARBARO CAÑIZARES BOER MANAGUA NICARAGUA
MICHEL ABREU BOER MANAGUA NICARAGUA
MICHAEL NENNINGER BOER MANAGUA NICARAGUA
MIGUEL PEREZ TIGRES DEL CHINANDEGA NICARAGUA
ALEJANDRO ZUAZNABAR TIGRES DEL CHINANDEGA NICARAGUA
ALEXEI HERNANDEZ SAN FERNANDO MASAYA NICARAGUA

ADRIAN HERNANDEZ CARDENALES DE LARA VENEZUELA
MAYQUE QUINTERO PASTORA DE LOS LLANOS VENEZUELA
JORGE TOCA TIBURONES DE LA GUAIRA VENEZUELA
VLADIMIR NUÑEZ TIBURONES DE LA GUAIRA VENEZUELA
ALEX SANCHEZ LEONES DE CARACAS VENEZUELA

HANSEL IZQUIERDO MAYOS DE NAVAJOA MEXICO
ARIEL PRIETO YAQUIS DE OBREGON MEXICO
MICHAEL TEJERA YAQUIS DE OBREGON MEXICO

That's all


B.

[Agente Libre]

Who is Alejandro Zuaznabar? Never heard of him.

[Cubano100%]

Who is Alejandro Zuaznabar? Never heard of him.


I think he was in one of the junior teams. He defected to Venezuela and had 6 ABs in the Nicaraguan Winter League but he went back to Venezuela due to family matters. I think he played in the Venezuela Summer League prior to his trip to Nicaragua. I found out about him in the Nicaraguan Winter League Web Site.

[bppb266]

Who is Alejandro Zuaznabar? Never heard of him.

Well there is not a lot of references about him...

He played at junior level with Kendry Morales & others . here is a link (in spanish)

http://www.inder.co.cu/indernet/Provincias/stg/lideres_beisbol_juvenil_final.htm

Also, he played for Metropolitanos in the 43 Series (2003). I dont know how much time.



B.

[bppb266]

I know could be some lost data, but i will appreciate any help to complete this info. I want to create a database or centralized web to follow all defectors (its not a good word in my opinion) over the years. Other idea could be colaborate with cubanball.com to create this kind of database. what do you think about this ?

2005 Major League Players

Orlando Hernandez ------------- Chicago White Sox
Jose Ariel Contreras ---------- Chicago White Sox
Alex Sanchez ------------------ San Francisco Giants
Brayan Peña ------------------- Atlanta BRaves
Yuniesky Betancourt ----------- Seattle Mariners
Danys Baez -------------------- Tampa Bay Devil Rays
Livan Hernandez --------------- Washington Nationals
Michael Tejera ---------------- Texas Rangers

2005 Minor League Players on Team Rosters

Saidel Beltran ---------------- Charleston Riverdogs (A) ------ New York Yankees P
Jose Angel Cordero ------------ GLC Twins (R) ----------------- Minnesota Twins P
Arian Cruz -------------------- Chattanooga Lookouts (AA) ----- Cincinnati Reds P
Juan Carlos Diaz -------------- Springfield Cardinals (AA) ---- St. Louis Cardinals 1B
Yobal Dueñas ------------------ Trenton Thunder (AA) ---------- New York Yankees 2B
Yunel Escobar ----------------- Rome Braves (A) --------------- Atlanta Braves SS
Osvaldo Fernandez ------------- Tabasco Olmecas (AAA) --------- Mexican League P
Rafael Galbizo ---------------- GLC Marlins (R) --------------- Florida Marlins P
Gary Galvez ------------------- Greenville Bombers (A) -------- Boston Red Sox P
Adrian Hernandez -------------- Vaqueros Laguna (AAA) --------- Mexican League P
Michel Hernandez -------------- Portland Beavers (AAA) -------- San Diego Padres C
Hansel Izquierdo -------------- Altoona Curve (AA) ------------ Pittsburgh Pirates P
Maikel Jova ------------------- New Hampshire Fisher Cats (AA)- Toronto Blue Jays OF
Kendry Morales ---------------- Arkansas Travelers (AA) ------- Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim 1B
Juan Carlos Muñiz ------------- Carolina Mudcats (AA) --------- Florida Marlins OF
Vladimir Nuñez ---------------- Tucson Toros (AAA) ------------ Arizona Diamondbacks P
Eddie Oropesa ----------------- Tabasco Olmecas (AAA) --------- Mexican League P
Branyan Peña ------------------ Richmond Braves (AAA) --------- Atlanta Braves C
Joel Perez -------------------- GLC Yankees (R) --------------- New York Yankees OF
Josue Perez ------------------- AZL Rangers (R) --------------- Texas Rangers OF
Miguel Perez ------------------ Saltillo Saraperos (AAA) ------ Mexican League P
Nestor Perez ------------------ Visalia Oaks (A-Adv) ---------- Tampa Bay Devil Rays 2B
William Plaza ----------------- Charleston Riverdogs (A) ------ New York Yankees C
Ariel Prieto ------------------ Albuquerque Isotopes (AAA) ---- Florida Marlins P
Mayque Quintero --------------- Potomac Nationals (A-Adv) ----- Washington Nationals P
Maels Rodriguez --------------- Missoula Ospreys (R) ---------- Arizona Diamondbacks P
Jorge Luis Toca --------------- Charlotte Knights (AAA) ------- Chicago White Sox 1B
Raul Valdez ------------------- Iowa Cubs (AAA) --------------- Chicago Cubs P
Rolando Viera* ---------------- Tabasco Olmecas (AAA) --------- Mexican League P

2005 Independent League Players on Team Rosters

Edisbel Benitez* -------------- El Paso Diablos --------------- Central League P
Jose Cano* -------------------- El Paso Diablos --------------- Central League IF
Carlos Castillo --------------- El Paso Diablos --------------- Central League IF
Carlos Castillo --------------- Newark Bears ------------------ Atlantic League P
Jorge Diaz -------------------- El Paso Diablos --------------- Central League IF
Alexis Hernandez -------------- Yuma Scorpions ---------------- Golden Baseball League C
Oscar Macias ------------------ El Paso Diablos --------------- Central League IF
Agustin Marquetti* ------------ El Paso Diablos --------------- Central League P
Rolando Viera ----------------- Elmira Pioneers --------------- CAN-AM League P
Amaury Casañas ---------------- Elmira Pioneers --------------- CAN-AM League IF
Yolexandry Reina -------------- Toronto Maple Leafs ----------- Intercounty Baseball League P

2005 International League Players on Team Rosters

Jesus Ametller ---------------- Warriors Paterno -------------- Italian League 2B
Roberto Colina ---------------- Caffe Danesi Nettuno ---------- Italian League 1B
William Ortega ---------------- Caffe Danesi Nettuno ---------- Italian League OF
Amauri Sanit ------------------ El Boer ----------------------- Nicaraguan League P
Julio Cesar Villalon ------------- Palfinger Reggio Emilia --------- Italian League P
* Released

B.

[Jake83]

What the Angel are planning to do with Morales is the question. I do not see him as a 1st basemen because of Kotchman and his defensive ability and range in the outfield is well below average which was not known before he defected. He is a monster at the plate though but because he does not have a positon in Anaheim in may be awhile before he is a starter at the Major League level.

[Cubano100%]

What the Angel are planning to do with Morales is the question. I do not see him as a 1st basemen because of Kotchman and his defensive ability and range in the outfield is well below average which was not known before he defected. He is a monster at the plate though but because he does not have a positon in Anaheim in may be awhile before he is a starter at the Major League level.


DH. He was not good in Cuba defensively either. I think the baseball people knew this. He can play 3B/1B/LF/RF to provide some rest to the other starters. It would be shocking for me to see him not to make the Angels team out of Spring training. That is why the Angels traded Finley and moved Erstad to CF. Casey Kotchman hit only 34 HRs in 5 minor league seasons (A,AA,AAA). He also hit 103 doubles. In contrast, Super Kendry hit 24 HRs and 29 doubles in less than a full season in A, AA, Arizona Fall League.

I hope the Angels keep both though. This year the World Series is between Chi Sox or Angels VS Mets.
http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/players/playerpage/387403

[Cubano100%]

First of all ..i want to say hello to everybody..specially to those who came from cuba and keep baseball on blood :-)

I want to apologize for my english. Its not perfect.

So.. here.. a list of cubans who were in winter leagues this year

NAME TEAM COUNTRY

FRANCISLEY BUENO LEONES DEL ESCOGIDO REPUBLICA DOMINICANA
OSBECK CASTILLO LEONES DEL ESCOGIDO REPUBLICA DOMINICANA
BRAYAN PEÑA GIGANTES DE CIBAO REPUBLICA DOMINICANA
RAUL VALDEZ AZUCAREROS DEL ESTE REPUBLICA DOMINICANA

RAFAEL GALBIZO CRIOLLOS DE CAGUAS PUERTO RICO
JOSE CORDERO CRIOLLOS DE CAGUAS PUERTO RICO
ALAY SOLER LEONES DE PONCE PUERTO RICO

ARIAN CRUZ LEONES DE LEON NICARAGUA
JULIO CESAR VILLALON LEONES DE LEON NICARAGUA
AMAURY SANIT LEONES DE LEON NICARAGUA
ALEXIS HERNANDEZ LEONES DE LEON NICARAGUA
MAIKEL JOVA LEONES DE LEON NICARAGUA
YOSANDRY IBAÑEZ BOER MANAGUA NICARAGUA
BARBARO CAÑIZARES BOER MANAGUA NICARAGUA
MICHEL ABREU BOER MANAGUA NICARAGUA
MICHAEL NENNINGER BOER MANAGUA NICARAGUA
MIGUEL PEREZ TIGRES DEL CHINANDEGA NICARAGUA
ALEJANDRO ZUAZNABAR TIGRES DEL CHINANDEGA NICARAGUA
ALEXEI HERNANDEZ SAN FERNANDO MASAYA NICARAGUA

ADRIAN HERNANDEZ CARDENALES DE LARA VENEZUELA
MAYQUE QUINTERO PASTORA DE LOS LLANOS VENEZUELA
JORGE TOCA TIBURONES DE LA GUAIRA VENEZUELA
VLADIMIR NUÑEZ TIBURONES DE LA GUAIRA VENEZUELA
ALEX SANCHEZ LEONES DE CARACAS VENEZUELA

HANSEL IZQUIERDO MAYOS DE NAVAJOA MEXICO
ARIEL PRIETO YAQUIS DE OBREGON MEXICO
MICHAEL TEJERA YAQUIS DE OBREGON MEXICO

That's all


B.

Michel Hernandez Cardinals 40 man roster
Francisley Bueno Braves
Barbaro Canizares Braves

[Cubano100%]

Mets RHP Alain Soler had 3-2 record during the regular season in the Puerto Rican Winter League. He ended with 2.37 ERA. In the post season, he had a 2-1 record and 1.45 ERA.

Spanish link:

http://www.primerahora.com/noticia.asp?guid=C753F695AB404747A2417B8B13748EE6


Let's go Mets!

[Cubano100%]

http://havanajournal.com/culture_comments/4340_0_3_0_C/

[Agente Libre]

Can you post the story? That link didn't work for me.

[Cubano100%]

Can you post the story? That link didn't work for me.


A Cuban beisbol story


Joselito of the mound


In the upcoming US Major League Baseball games that will include Cuba’s national team, no mention will be made of Jose Ibar (e-bar). Unlike his teammate Jose Contreras who recently signed a four year 32 million dollar deal, Jose Ibar never made it out of Cuba.

Touted at one time as the hardest thrower in all the Cuban leagues, Ibar was the first player ever to win 20 games in a season. He was the pitching star who helped Cuba win Olympic gold in ’92 and ’96. Inside Cuba he was one of the superstars. Everywhere he went people recognized and lionized him. He was even given a new sports car by that ultimate baseball fan Fidel. The picture of Ibar standing beside his new Mitsubishi made it to the US press.

In the 90’s, when MLB scouts began to court various Cuban players to defect with the promise of millions of dollars and freedom’s they could not enjoy in Cuba, Jose Ibar resisted. Like most loyal Cubanos, his first allegiance was to his family and the system that had brought him along as a player. Numerous times he passed up the chance to jump the Cuban ship for greener pastures. As he aged, though, and saw the dismal condition lived by former star Cuban baseball players, he began to have second thoughts. By then, in his early 30’s, the writing was on the wall; he had only a few more years to play at the top level. Any chance at financial security and some prosperity beyond the paltry existence of most Cubans had to be soon. Most Cuban baseball players were living for a month on less than the one-day food allowance of their American or Japanese counterparts.

So, ever faithful to the Fatherland, rather than defect to the Cruel Neighbor To The North and play, Jose requested to be able to go to Japan and play the few remaining years of his illustrious career. A few former Cuban players had been granted this “privilege” by the Castro regime and it had enabled them to secure some buffer against the hardships facing most Cubanos on a daily basis.

Unfortunately for Ibar the decision coming down from on high was “no, no es licito (permitted).” Perhaps it was his own fame that worked against him. For such an “idol” of Cuban nationalism to choose to play out his last years in a capitalist society, coming home “filthy” rich by Cuban standards: well, what would that say about the virtues of “La Revolucion?”

Having passed up multiple opportunities to defect while on foreign soil, one can imagine Jose’s feelings at hearing this. It must have seemed the ultimate insult. Having given the best years of his playing career to the all powerful Cuban state and Fidel, at a salary that was dwarfed by the income of chambermaids and bartenders in the tourist hotels, he was now expected to finish out his career in “Fidel’s Baseball Army” and settle for the meager life that projected into his old age. An icon perhaps, but one scrambling daily just to hold body and soul together, like almost all other Cubanos.

Is it any wonder that Jose chose to try and leave? Even at the cost of leaving his lovely wife, children and family, Jose realized that his last chance at any real financial security was quickly passing. His arm, once mightier than all others, capable of throwing 100 mph fastballs all afternoon, could take only a few more seasons. He simply had to leave soon, or not at all.

Heading out to sea from anywhere in Pinar del Rio, the most western province in Cuba, is a perilous voyage. The Gulf Stream flowing up from the south rushes through the Yucatan Straits like a river torrent, reaching speeds of 10 mph in some areas. If there is a north or easterly breeze, the rushing flow against the winds produces sharp, jagged, high-topped waves that break over a small vessel. It is a notoriously treacherous stretch of water, and full of hungry sharks. Even heading out from the north shore of the peninsula toward the US is dangerous, given the much longer distance to land and again the very rough seas.

No one knows the details of the trip or how Jose and his party were found out and captured at sea. Such things are not spoken of in public in the land of the bearded one. When there is such fear of reprisal that none dare speak the name Fidel, but rather stroke an imaginary beard on their chin to signify his name, anything that might embarrass “el gran jefe” is swiftly swept under the carpet and goes unreported.

The rumor mill has it that Jose was in possession of a gun at the time of his arrest; a big taboo on an island of dictatorship. But, no one can say for sure. When apprehended, any independent thinker in a land of demanded conformity is quickly demonized. Even if the gun story is untrue, the additional stain of the charge will surely mean a long imprisonment.

So, you will not be hearing about the former superstar of Cuban baseball in the upcoming games; the magnificent Joselito who could throw a ball like a bullet and do it all day, the one who led the Cuban team to such golden glory over all the world in ’92 and ’96, the one who came through in the clutch, the kind and devoted good-looking black kid from Granma Province, the one most admired and looked up to by all.

For, during the upcoming games in the US – where he will be – well, you don’t want to go there.

John R. Bomar
Arkadelphia, Arkansas
johnrbomar@hotsprings.net

[Cubano100%]

Freedom to play


Escobar’s escape from Cuba opens new life
07/09/05
By David Dawson, Rome News-Tribune Sports Writer
Email this story to a friend


Yunel Escobar was promoted to Rome after hitting .400 in eight games at rookie league Danville. Ryan Smith / Rome News-Tribune
Although many minor league baseball players feel the most grueling aspect of their profession is the constant travel, it’s highly unlikely that Rome Braves shortstop Yunel Escobar will ever be heard complaining about long late-night bus trips or the living-out-of-a-suitcase lifestyle.

For him, any hardships he might endure during a trip to, say, Augusta or Savannah, are mild inconveniences compared to what he endured last fall — when he literally went on the road trip of a lifetime.

Making a daring escape from Cuba, Escobar spent three straight days stowed away on a boat last October, slowly sailing away from the life he once knew.

The boat eventually found the shoreline in Miami, where Escobar, 22, defected to the U.S. and took up residency for several months before entering last month’s major league draft.

The Atlanta Braves selected him in the second round, ending a whirlwind six-month stretch that forever altered Escobar’s life.

“Getting the chance to play baseball (in the states) is very special to me,” said Escobar, speaking through a translator. “It wasn’t easy for me to get here.”

Simply by making it safely to the states, Escobar likely has already completed the most challenging part of his journey to the major leagues — a path that’s been successfully traveled by a long list of Cuban defectors.

Brayan Pena, who played nine games with Atlanta this year before being sent down to Class AAA Richmond, had a key role in helping the Atlanta organization find out about Escobar, his close friend. The two players were former teammates on the Cuban national team.

After signing with the Braves last month, Escobar was sent to Danville of the rookie-level Appalachian League, but was there only eight games before it became apparent that he was ready for a new set of challenges.

Escobar hit .400 in his abbreviated stay at Danville, and was quickly promoted to Rome. Here he has dazzled fans and the Braves coaching staff with his supreme skills.

“He’s fun to watch,” said Rome manager Rocket Wheeler. “The guy can really make some plays.”

Escobar said his days with the Cuban National Team helped him prepare for professional baseball in the states.

“The pitchers in Cuba were older and had more savvy,” he said. “Here, guys rely more on the power game. But (playing in Cuba) was good for me.”

While baseball prosperity has come quickly, some other elements of Escobar’s transition will take far longer, like adjusting to everyday life in America.

“It’s a process, and it’s going to take time. We’ve been working with him, helping him get accustomed to living here,” said Marco Paddy, the Braves’ director of Latin American operations. Paddy has been traveling with Escobar since he signed last month and served as his interpreter for this story.

Although Escobar knows virtualy no English other than simple baseball lingo, the energetic infielder is one of the Braves’ most boisterous players, both on and off the field. During any given game, he can be heard above the crowd, shouting or whistling at his teammates.

“Two out, guys, two out,” Escobar yells in broken-English, followed by a shrieking whistle that’s loud enough to drown out a train.

“I’ve been doing that (whistling) since I was a little kid,” said Escobar. “It’s fun for me. It’s my way of keeping myself and my teammates focused.”

Escobar, who will likely take English classes during the off-season, is also lively in the clubhouse. He is constantly chattering with teammates, even those who don’t understand what he’s saying.

“He’s really brought a lot of life to this team,” said Wheeler. “He’s such an upbeat guy, and it’s a joy having him on this club.”

Escobar says his enthusiasm comes naturally, and is simply a reflection of his personality and style of play.

“It doesn’t matter what the circumstance, I will always maintain that fire and that energy,” he said. “That’s the way I play all the time.”

According to some, Escobar is already approaching “major-league-ready” status. And although that’s a lofty description, it might also be accurate for a player who’s been on national all-star teams since he was eight years old.

“I don’t feel any pressure about being here,” he said. “I am going to play my game, and be aggressive like I’ve always been.”

For Yunel Escobar, there appears to be nothing but smooth sailing ahead.



http://news.mywebpal.com/partners/680/public/news6...

You can see his picture when you click the above link.

[Cubano100%]

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/cline200510200828.asp

[Agente Libre]

Ha ha ha ... That Escobar story is pure fiction. He was smuggled to U.S. on a speedboat and everyone in Miami knows it. (The trip takes a few hours; not 3 days.)

[Fermin Lafita]

Here is an article from PB POST on Hassan Pena

Commentary: Boat transports young pitcher to new way of life
By Emily J. Minor

Palm Beach Post Staff Columnist

Saturday, January 28, 2006

As a boy in Cuba, Hassan Pena learned to pitch with a baseball made of socks and tape. He'd eaten red meat maybe a half-dozen times. If that.

And his family residence was in such disrepair that the government eventually condemned the building, sending him and his parents off to more dormitory-like living quarters.



Now, he's in America, playing on a community college baseball team, watching his favorite Major League players on television, enjoying the freedom of telling a good Fidel joke — not to mention the occasional triple Whopper with cheese.

It's hard to know which is more satisfying, really, since each of those indulgences has an exhilarating reward.

Pena, 20, a top prospect on Cuba's Industriales team, left there on a speedboat in August, and he won't be going back. He lives with his mother's sister in West Palm Beach. His career advisers are his cousin, Richard Valdes, and Marcos Gonzalez, a Cuban lawyer and the founding partner in the law firm where Valdes works.

I met Pena Thursday after practice, his gray polyester uniform still dusty from the ball field. He was shooting pool in Gonzalez's office, the evening light fading, the sky lit up beyond the windowed 6th-floor wall, like one of those old Florida postcards.

Pretty. But the story of young Pena is rife with danger and emotion.

And promise. The baseball gods willing, Sports Illustrated will get to this story soon.

He tried to leave Cuba twice, was unsuccessful the first time, ended up in jail and on the government's list. If you know anything about Cuba, you know you don't have a rousing career in Cuban baseball after trying to leave.

And it's not that Pena didn't know what he had.

After he'd impressed government officials with his breaking ball, he'd joined an elite group of young athletes. They stayed in nice hotels — not the luxurious ones set aside for tourists, but hotels nonetheless. He had a private shower. He ate an occasional steak.

But after that first attempt, his parents knew life would not be the same for Hassan Pena, their only child.

He says his parents knew their son would "never be a person in Cuba."

So he tried again, and the second time was the charm, and after 10 wretched hours at sea, he reached South Florida dry land in August.

And thus began his American life, the jaw-dropping trips to Wal-Mart and the lobster dinners and the countless hours of ESPN. And while this kid continues to adore this life, Gonzalez worries.

Did he and Valdes do the right thing?

In the complicated world of professional baseball, Pena could have gotten more money right off if he'd first moved to the Dominican Republic or Nicaragua. That way, he could have entered the majors as something called a free agent. Now, he'll go through the draft — which will certainly mean less money.

Gonzalez, who was born in Cuba and came here on the Mariel boatlift, said these decisions tortured him for many nights. But in the end, they decided it was more important for Pena to be with family and learn how to become "a good citizen."

In the end, they decided the kid's talent would carry him through.

Pena is scheduled to pitch today for Palm Beach Community College, and some big-time scouts are supposed to be there. On Thursday, he looked handsome and happy — but still very much like a boy who misses his mother.

Gonzalez said that since August, through it all, a day has rarely passed without Pena wondering aloud about one simple thing.

"He wonders what his mother is eating back in Cuba," Gonzalez said. "He mentions this almost every day."

[Cubano100%]

Ha ha ha ... That Escobar story is pure fiction. He was smuggled to U.S. on a speedboat and everyone in Miami knows it. (The trip takes a few hours; not 3 days.)


How about the scouting report?

Good for him he came that quick.

[Agente Libre]

"Baseball America" just came out with their top 100 draft prospects and Top 25 junior college prospects today, which are compiled from surveys of MLB scouts. Hassan Pena is not on either list, which was surprising. Pena received good reports after the tournament in Jupiter in the fall, but it looks like he'll need to work his way into the higher rounds.

[Cubano100%]

"Baseball America" just came out with their top 100 draft prospects and Top 25 junior college prospects today, which are compiled from surveys of MLB scouts. Hassan Pena is not on either list, which was surprising. Pena received good reports after the tournament in Jupiter in the fall, but it looks like he'll need to work his way into the higher rounds.


I got their Prospect Handbook and I did not see his name. Maybe it is because he came so late and only pitched in that tournament. He did well in his first start for PBCC. Maybe he ends up with the Havana Braves.

[Fermin Lafita]

Yeah, I dont know either. I know he pitched as well as anybody at the Jupiter tournament and BA still didnt mentioned his name in their Jupiter wrap up. Maybe its because at that time nobody knew if he was staying in the US. I still think that he'll go in the top 3 rounds and has a chance at going very early if he stays healthy, throws strikes and keeps his speed at 91-93 to go with his great curveball. Although Baseball America didnt write about him, I can tell you there were about 50-60 scouts there for first game

[Kiefer]

I lived near Ibar's house. He spent several months in prison, and he can't play baseball anymore in Cuba.

[Fermin Lafita]

Hassan Pitched his second game today
He pitched 6 innings and didnt allow any earned runs and struck out 6. He left the game with the score 6-1, however, he didnt get the win because the other team came back and tied the game at 6. PBCC eventually won the game though
so far he is 1-0, 10 innings pitched 0 earned runs.

[Agente Libre]

Sounds like Pena is doing well so far but remember, he's 21 years old and everyone else in his league is 17 to 19. It won't be good enough to just have good stats; he'll need to really dominate in order to impress the scouts. (There were several Cubans in their 20s at Miami Dade College last year and they didn't even get drafted, even though they had good stats.)

[Fermin Lafita]

Here is an article about yesterdays game. Hassan is 20. BTW he is not the oldest kid on the team there are a few 20 year olds on the team. I graduated high school when I was 18 and played JC ball when I was 19 and 20. i dont think there are many 17 year olds on any team he plays. The kids are mostly 19 year olds only a few months younger than Hassan. Anyway, I agree with you that stats isnt the only important thing but it would suck if he has good stuff but cant win games.



MCC drops home opener on errorsMIKE HENRYHerald Staff WriterBRADENTON - In most respects, Manatee Community College's 9-8, 10-inning loss in its home opener against Palm Beach CC was fairly typical for an early February game: a combined 25 hits and seven errors, with all five of the Lancers' miscues coming in the final two innings.
Although the outcome will be relegated to footnote status by next week, coaches, players and a few dozen fans won't soon forget watching Panthers freshman right-hander Hassan Pena shut MCC down for six innings Friday.
The 20-year-old Cuban defector allowed four hits, including doubles by Ryan Williams and Mitch Rodriguez, and struck out seven before exiting with a 6-1 lead.
"(Pena) is going to get a lot of money," said MCC coach Tim Hill. "He has a major-league breaking ball that's a hammer, and he mixed both sides of the plate. His fastball is 90 miles per hour, which is not overpowering, but it's effective with that sharp breaking ball.
"He is the real deal. He kind of handcuffed us."
First-year Panthers coach Alex Morales said Pena is a walk-on who lives with an aunt and uncle in West Palm Beach.
"Lucky me," Morales said.
"He should be a pretty decent draft pick in June. He was throwing both pitches for strikes and located them for the most part, and his velocity was pretty good."
Once Morales left the game, the Lancers (2-2) worked their way back into it. Catcher Steve Giummo blasted a two-run home run in the bottom of the seventh, making it 6-3.
The Panthers (3-3) scored an unearned run in the ninth, but the Lancers forced extra innings with a four-run outburst against two relief pitchers.
Williams led off with a single and raced to third base on Sean Morrison's double. A walk to Brent Coleman loaded the bases.
Giummo lined a single to right field, making it 7-4, and three batters later, George Markovich tied the game with a single on a 3-2 pitch.
But two MCC errors in the top of the 10th led to two unearned runs, and the Lancers managed only one run in their half.
"It was sort of disappointing to lose our home opener, but a lot of things happened that we can learn from," Hill said. "Hopefully, we won't be making some of the same mistakes we made (Friday).
The Lancers unveiled their new electronic scoreboard and a carpeted halo behind home plate with "LANCERS" spelled out.

[Cubano100%]

The below info was from 2004 Cuban National Series. He was 19 then. Now he is 20.



Hassan Pena Sánchez
Fecha de Nacimiento: 25 de marzo de 1985
Lugar: Centro Habana, Ciudad de la Habana
Edad: 19 años
Estatura: 1´84
Peso: 83 kg
Batea: Derecha
Tira: Derecha
Posición: Lanzador
Series: 1
Equipos: Metropolitanos e Industriales (Nacional)
Debut: XLIII Serie Nacional 2003-04 con Metropolitanos
Residencia: Centro Habana, Ciudad de la Habana
Número: 34
Equipos en la Serie Provincial: Centro Habana

Posee todo lo necesario para que se convierta con el paso de algunos años en uno de los mejores lanzadores cubanos. Condiciones físicas idóneas para lanzar y una velocidad elevada que combina con efectivos lanzamientos en rompimiento, le dieron buenas actuaciones en la pasada serie, en la que no obstante le faltó estabilidad. Poco a poco debe ir madurando en todos los sentidos, para que de esa manera los mismos resultados sobresalientes en las categorías precedentes pueda mantenerlo en la Serie Nacional e incluso, extrafronteras.


The key is to let scouts know where he is and keep them informed about his progress. He will be picked by the Braves probably because his former teammates will let the Braves scouts know everything about him.

Anything but those two AA teams in Florida and the Royals would be fine for him.

[Agente Libre]

If he turns 21 next month, that's not a major difference from what I said earlier.

The fact remains, the vast majority of 21-year-olds are juniors at four-year colleges, and scouts will be taking that into consideration.

Obviously, something caused him to be left off the Baseball America "Top 100" and "Top 25 junior college" lists.

[Fermin Lafita]

I think scouts care mostly about one thing, and that is: Can this guy get out hitters at the Major league level? Hassan's age can only help him. He is one of the youngest Cuban players with talent to have ever defected. You look at the other Cuban pitchers that defected and most of them were in the second stage of their careers. Most of the time the concern that scouts have is whether the Cuban player is telling his real age. Thus, I find it hard to believe that his age will hurt him, if anything it is one of the things that makes him attractive. I dont know why Baseball America doesnt have him in top 100, maybe there are 100 better players than him. I do know, that he has gotten and will continue to receive a lot of exposure. For a guy that wasn't even that established in Cuba, he has gotten a lot of pub since his arrival. At his first game every team was present,there were at least 50 scouts there. Five teams even had their Scouting directors present. It is all up to Hassan, if he throws like he is capable of, he will be fine. If he doesnt go high in the draft it will be because he didnt perform, not because he was a year older than the kids he was competing against.

[Fermin Lafita]

I think scouts care mostly about one thing, and that is: Can this guy get out hitters at the Major league level? Hassan's age can only help him. He is one of the youngest Cuban players with talent to have ever defected. You look at the other Cuban pitchers that defected and most of them were in the second stage of their careers. Most of the time the concern that scouts have is whether the Cuban player is telling his real age. Thus, I find it hard to believe that his age will hurt him, if anything it is one of the things that makes him attractive. I dont know why Baseball America doesnt have him in top 100, maybe there are 100 better players than him. I do know, that he has gotten and will continue to receive a lot of exposure. For a guy that wasn't even that established in Cuba, he has gotten a lot of pub since his arrival. At his first game every team was present,there were at least 50 scouts there. Five teams even had their Scouting directors present. It is all up to Hassan, if he throws like he is capable of, he will be fine. If he doesnt go high in the draft it will be because he didnt perform, not because he was a year older than the kids he was competing against.

[Cubano100%]

Let's go Hassan. You are from the Industriales Lions team.

When is that Sports Illustrated articule coming out?

[Cubano100%]

What are his pitches? Laffita.

[Fermin Lafita]

Fast Ball, Curve, Change, and a fast knuckle ball that drops like a split finger

[Cubano100%]

Fast Ball, Curve, Change, and a fast knuckle ball that drops like a split finger


Thanks. He got the tools.

[jon7jmets]

February 4, 2006 -- The Mets have signed Michel Abreu, a Cuban defector expected to provide some insurance at first base.
According to a baseball official, Abreu will get a one-year minor league deal and probably will be a minor leaguer for the Mets. The two sides came to terms on Wednesday, said Abreu's agent Bernie McGregor.

According to McGregor, the right-handed hitting Abreu — whose first name is pronounced "Michelle" — is a 6-foot-3, 230-pounder who plays primarily at first but also has played left field and third base. The agent said Abreu, 31, will have a chance to make the Mets —...http://www.nypost.com/sports/mets/62897.htm

[Agente Libre]

Fermin Lafita -- I know you're involved with Pena and I'm not trying to argue with you. I'm just telling you how baseball scouts think. Last year, there were a bunch of 20-something Cubans in the draft and only one of them -- Yunel Escobar -- was drafted in the first 10 rounds. About 8 others either signed for $5,000 late in the draft or didn't get drafted at all.

If there were 50 scouts at his first game 10 days ago and he still didn't get listed in the Baseball America lists, then something is going on. Either the scouts didn't think he'd be drafted in the first 3-4 rounds, or they think he's older than he is. Even when Cubans are telling the truth, a lot of scouts assume the player is even 2-3-4 years older. That's just the way it is, and you can blame Joe Cubas and a few other agents for that.

As for Pena's age vs. the age of his competition, that will definitely be a factor. That's just reality. Pena is almost 21 and he was basically a professional baseball player in Cuba for the last few years, while the others in his league are 17 to 19 and were sitting in high school 6 months ago.

I hope Pena does well. I have no reason to root against him. I'm just giving my opinion here.

[Cubano100%]

http://www.nypost.com/sports/mets/62897.htm


I guess he is trying to put some number in the minor and try to sign a better contract then. He certainly has no place with the Mets.

[Agente Libre]

The Mets will hold his rights for 6 years, so this was a very strange move. The Marlins were reportedly interested but probably offered a smaller signing bonus. Abreu should have still signed with Florida. He has no chance in N.Y. unless people get hurt.

[Cubano100%]

The Mets will hold his rights for 6 years, so this was a very strange move. The Marlins were reportedly interested but probably offered a smaller signing bonus. Abreu should have still signed with Florida. He has no chance in N.Y. unless people get hurt.


What is the purpose in signing for one year then?

[Cubano100%]

Going back to Hassan Pena, Yunel Escobar did not attend college in USA and still was drafted in the second round in 2005. So if the scouts think you are good, somebody will select you. Escobar was almost 22 when he was selected.

However, a lot of publicity does not hurt and it would had been better for Pena to be included among the top college prospects.

[Agente Libre]

Abreu did not sign for one year; he signed for 6 years. There is no such thing as a 1-year minor league contract for first-time professional players. Abreu, like a lot of other defectors, has a brand new agent (Bernie McGregor) and the agent probably does not know what he's talking about.

As for Yunel Escobar, he got lucky. He basically lied about his age and his stats -- he told teams he was an all-star and that he was a .350 hitter in Cuba -- and the Braves apparently believed him. According to the Miami Herald, he also trained with a bunch of released players who were no good, so that made him look better when the scouts watched.

The bottom line is, if Hassan Pena outperforms the league he's playing in, he should be okay in the draft. But it will take more than a 90-mph fastball for him to get drafted in the high rounds. He will need to look polished, mature, etc. Again, as a 21-year-old, he will be looked at differently than a 17 or 18-year-old. That's just the reality of scouting.

After that, teams will know he's probably desperate to sign, so it's not automatic that he'll get a big bonus even if he's drafted high. Escobar got lucky and was drafted by a team with money. If Pena gets drafted by the Reds or Royals or Brewers, they might offer him $10,000 and say "take it or leave it."

[Cubano100%]

All of these problems with Cuban players would be greatly solved by granting them free agency like others.

How in the world MLB invites Cuba to compete in the WBC and does not grant Cuban players free agent status?

As a result, you have those players that go to another country wasting time to get legal documents. You also have players like Hassan Pena that should be playing in high A or AA trying to enter the 2006 draft risking an injury.


I hope thing change for the better soon.

[jon7jmets]

yanks and mets after Bárbaro Cañizares

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/baseball/13386734.htm

[Cubano100%]

yanks and mets after Bárbaro Cañizares

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/baseball/13386734.htm


I think he signed with the Braves already.

[MiamiBaseball]

Fermin Lafita -- I know you're involved with Pena and I'm not trying to argue with you. I'm just telling you how baseball scouts think. Last year, there were a bunch of 20-something Cubans in the draft and only one of them -- Yunel Escobar -- was drafted in the first 10 rounds. About 8 others either signed for $5,000 late in the draft or didn't get drafted at all.

If there were 50 scouts at his first game 10 days ago and he still didn't get listed in the Baseball America lists, then something is going on. Either the scouts didn't think he'd be drafted in the first 3-4 rounds, or they think he's older than he is. Even when Cubans are telling the truth, a lot of scouts assume the player is even 2-3-4 years older. That's just the way it is, and you can blame Joe Cubas and a few other agents for that.

As for Pena's age vs. the age of his competition, that will definitely be a factor. That's just reality. Pena is almost 21 and he was basically a professional baseball player in Cuba for the last few years, while the others in his league are 17 to 19 and were sitting in high school 6 months ago.

I hope Pena does well. I have no reason to root against him. I'm just giving my opinion here.

Yep Age is factor One of the Cubans got drafted, signed and plays with my brother for the Twins Org. i met him Personally and man he looks older then me and i'm 30... If i'm a scout why would i want to look at someone thats doesn't have room to develop in the future thats the reason why alot of them left late in the draft... Trust me scout see alot and Baseball America if they didn't list him they know why...

[Agente Libre]

You must be talking about Jose Cordero. I think he was telling scouts he was 21 or 22 last year. He's at least mid-20's and maybe even older.

[MiamiBaseball]

Yeah i didn't want to say names lolol but you said it...

[Fermin Lafita]

Who said that age doesnt matter?

Our discussion dealt with whether, assuming Hassan is 20, which he is, it matters that he plays against 18 and 19 year olds. That is a different discussion than whether Cubans or other players have lied about their age in the past. I havent said that age doesnt matter. I simply said that if Hassan is really 20 then it doesnt matter if plays against 19 year olds. On his team there are a couple of kids that are under control that are older than Hassan. Do you think that their respective teams dont get excited whent those kids play well because they are 20?

[Fermin Lafita]

As for Pena's age vs. the age of his competition, that will definitely be a factor. That's just reality. Pena is almost 21 and he was basically a professional baseball player in Cuba for the last few years, while the others in his league are 17 to 19 and were sitting in high school 6 months ago.

So what you are saying is that Scouts would preferred to see a Kid like Hassan pitched well in workouts in another country versus seeing him pitch against JUCO kids? Nobody knows how high the kid is going to get drafted, but he wont be penalized because he pitches well against JUCO kids, Now if he got shelled by JUCO kids, that would be a problem. You are saying that doing well against JUCO kids is worst for a Cuban than not playing at all. I guess we'll see soon, Bermudez the other kid that came with him isnt playing anywhere. We'll see if that is better strategy. As long as Hassan doesnt get hurt, he is better off playing at a community college if he wasnt going the FA rout than not playing at all. The FA rout was not really an option in his case for reasons personal to Hassan and his family

[cuban_aficionado]

I think it all comes down to timing with Hassan Pena. I think the kid has lots of potential and really good stuff, but the reason there isn't so much noise about him is that he hasn't been playing for a long time in the USA. If Hassan just pitched his second game in the Jupiter leage a couples of days ago is impossible the MLB scouts have enough data on his pitching style, pitch count, average velocity per pitch and per game, ERA and so forth.... What I really think is happening with Hassan is that the MLB scouts are being really careful not to prejudge, prequlify or label this young cuban pitcher. Once Hassan Pena has pitched 20 or so games then we may see MLB scouts writing their recomendations for MLB teams.
With Penas' unique situation (One of the few Cuban baseball players able to show his stuff in USA soil and willing to participate on the draft) the MLB scouts have the luxury of taking their time, as opposed to makind decisons after only seen a cuban baseball player play once, they feel no hurry to make Hassan Pena a priority just yet.

[cuban_aficionado]

WBC presents big chance for Scouts

A rare opportunity awaits international baseball scouts who travel many miles every year looking for players who could someday become Major League stars.
The scouts can stay close to home and watch players from 16 countries compete against each other in the high-intensity forum that will be the inaugural World Baseball Classic.

"We're always looking for talent," said longtime Major League scout Deacon Jones, "and this gives us a chance to see players from all over the world."

The depth of international scouting varies with each big league organization, but check out a section of seats directly behind home plate at any given game during the three-week tournament and you're bound to see nicely dressed gentlemen holding radar guns and taking notes.

"We're going to cover it, definitely," Yankees general manager Brian Cashman said. "What we take from it, I don't know, because it's hard to speak to something that never has been done before. It's hard to say until we see the level of competition, but if there are games being played, we're going to cover them."

As the game continues to grow globally, the WBC could be the ideal stage for a young player from Italy, Korea, the Netherlands, Canada, Mexico or South Africa to draw interest from a Major League organization.

A stellar performance in the WBC could change someone's life forever.

"We have a vibrant scouting program in place, and have been involved in international scouting in what we think is a very aggressive manner for quite some time," Braves general manager John Schuerholz said. "We will have three scouts at all WBC locations.

"You never know when a player catches your eye in a different way, or shows you something at this level of competition that you haven't seen before. A certain player might have a competitive edge or spirit that we haven't had a chance to see otherwise."

"We don't know what to expect from countries that are not as developed in amateur programs, but this gives us a chance to see players that are underexposed on the international stage perform," Schuerholz said. "We already have a base of knowledge on a lot of the players, and this will enable us to supplement."

The timing of the WBC is another bonus for organizations. With the event being played in conjunction with Spring Training, scouts are already in Arizona and Florida.

"I think it's exciting for all of us," said Jones. "A lot of us will be on our normal Spring Training assignments, and to watch some [WBC] games would be a good change."

Paul Ricciarini, the Astros' senior director of player personnel, said the reigning National League champions will have scouts who normally cover Spring Training reporting on every WBC team involved.

"We're going to show up at the games and see what happens," he said. "If you never bet on a horse, you're never going to cash a ticket. You have something to gain and nothing to lose by covering the games."

To make things even better, the Italian team will be managed by Matt Galante, a longtime Astros employee and current special assistant to Houston general manager Tim Purpura.

Phillies scout Gordon Lakey said that his organization will put more of an emphasis on the teams with the fewest number of Major League players, a game plan most clubs are expected to follow.

"Some teams, like the Dominican, Puerto Rico and the U.S., have proven Major League players on them, so we would put less emphasis on them," he said. "I think we are all anxious to see what the teams from the Far East not affiliated with organizations in the U.S. are like."

Also, you can expect the Cuban team to draw considerable interest -- just in case any of those players eventually become available.:radio
"We're curious about the Cubans," said Roy Smith, the Dodgers' vice president of scouting and player development. "But the [WBC] as a whole is great. Anytime you can have an event that showcases this much talent, you have to take a look.":D

Lakey agreed that having Cuba involved adds another dimension to the event.:clapping

"That is going to be a very interesting situation," he said. "They have been kind of under wraps over there, and it will be interesting to see what they bring.":gt

Except for Cuba and the two teams that don't make it out of the first round in Tokyo, each of the WBC teams will share Spring Training facilities with Major League clubs from either March 3-6 or March 7-10, when the two Asian qualifiers join the Mariners and Padres at the Peoria Sports Complex.

Major League clubs hosting WBC teams are: the Red Sox (Australia), Blue Jays (Canada), Astros (Dominican Republic), Tigers (Italy), Diamondbacks (Mexico in Tucson and USA in Phoenix), Braves (Netherlands), Nationals (Panama), Mets (Puerto Rico), Athletics (South Africa) and Phillies (Venezuela). The Major League teams will play at least one exhibition game against their WBC visitors.

"You never know," Smith said. "Someone may hit a ball across the street, run like the wind or throw so hard that they stand out. It's always smart to have someone there to see it."

[Agente Libre]

Fermin -- I didn't say doing nothing would have been better for Pena than pitching at a JUCO. You either misread my post or are twisting my opinions around.

I simply said that Pena'a age will be a factor; that the level of competition will be a factor; and that the fact Cubans are always assumed to be lying about their ages will be a factor.

I think Pena would have been better off seeking free agency, or playing independent league baseball (better competition vs. wood bats), or holding a regular series of workouts. JUCO might turn out good for him, but there is a lot of risk involved. He's pitching against younger competition and against aluminum bats, which makes the scouts' jobs even tougher.

All of that aside, even if Pena pitches awesome at JUCO and scouts love him, if the Royals or Reds or Twins draft him, he might get stuck with a $20,000 bonus. That's the biggest risk with the draft -- Pena might have to sign for little money or wait for the 2007 draft.

As for Bermudez, he is 22 or 23 and didn't even have good numbers in Cuba, so pitching at a JUCO wasn't going to help him much anyway.

Again, you seem to be taking this personally, which is why it's usually bad for family/friends to try to represent players. I've never said anything here to bash Pena; I'm simply giving an opinion.

[MiamiBaseball]

TRRRRUUUUU lol

[Fermin Lafita]

All of that aside, even if Pena pitches awesome at JUCO and scouts love him, if the Royals or Reds or Twins draft him, he might get stuck with a $20,000 bonus. That's the biggest risk with the draft -- Pena might have to sign for little money or wait for the 2007 draft.

.Again, you seem to be taking this personally, which is why it's usually bad for family/friends to try to represent players. I've never said anything here to bash Pena; I'm simply giving an opinion.[/QUOTE]


Im not involved with Hassan as much as you think, other than being good friends with the guy who is advising him.

Here are the bonuses paid by the Royals, Reds and Twins (the teams you mentioned above) to their top picks last year:
Reds: 1. Jay Bruce 1.8 mil 2. Travis Wood 600,000 3. Zach Ward 420,000
Royals 1. Alex Gordon 4.0 Mil 2. Jeff Bianchi 690,000 3, Chris Nichols 445,000
Twins 1. Matt Garza 1,350,000 2. Henry Sanchez 900,000 3, Paul Kerry 650,000

Anyway, it seems to me that if Hassan gets any of these types of numbers he is better off than having gone to another country, remember he was not an established Cuban star like Contreras, El duque or Alain soler.

I know you have a different opinion and thats fine. I just believe that if a team would have paid big money for a player in the international market they would draft that same player in the top rounds of the draft if he was available

I think that Contreras, El duque , Livan, Soler, Morales would have all gone in the first round of the draft if they had not been free agents. Players like them obviously are better off by exploring the free agent market. Players like Escobar and Hassan I think are better off staying here while showing themselves more to all the teams

Anyway, Im sure Hassan will have plenty of opportunity to show his talent. As for taking this personally, I can assure that I am not, as I dont really have a personal stake in this matter.

Obviously, it seems that you think going to another country and becoming a FA is always better than staying here, that is why you are " Agente LIbre"
I think that its usually better for Cuabns to become a free agent but in some cases its not worth all the hassles.

[Cubano100%]

Ok guys time out. What does JUCO means? I am not an agent. As for Bermudez stats, they are better than Pena's. Bermudez has a better ERA and opponents ave against him.
Both were born in 1985.


Both are going to get drafted in the first 3 round God willing.

[Kiefer]

Buen año en las Menores (http://arch1.cubaencuentro.com/deportes/rapidisimas/20051006/91029d36ade202f85a272bd55655698f.html).

[MiamiBaseball]

Ok guys tiem out. What does JUCO means? I am not an agent. As for Bermudez stats, they are better than Pena's. Bermudez has a better ERA and opponents ave against him.
Both were born in 1985.


Both are going to get drafted in the first 3 round God willing.
JUCO is Junior Collloge or Community College 2 years college not a University... Reason people go to Junior Colloge is to become Draft eligible in those two years any of those two years. Unlike University you're not eligible after your Junior year "3 years" depending on your age to...

[Agente Libre]

That's odd. I thought Bermudez was 1-2 years older than Pena but I guess he's only a few months older.

No one seems to know what Bermudez is doing. I don't see how he's getting drafted in the first 3 rounds if he's not pitching anywhere and not having workouts.

[Agente Libre]

On a different topic, I've seen Cuban defector Alejandro Zuaznabar mentioned here and elsewhere. I had never heard of him before; does anyone know when he defected and where? It says he signed with the Mets in Jan. 2005 but has been having paperwork problems, which means he must have defected in 2003 or 2004. Thanks.

[Cubano100%]

On a different topic, I've seen Cuban defector Alejandro Zuaznabar mentioned here and elsewhere. I had never heard of him before; does anyone know when he defected and where? It says he signed with the Mets in Jan. 2005 but has been having paperwork problems, which means he must have defected in 2003 or 2004. Thanks.


I can not post the info from the Nicaraguan Winter league. They used a program that does not allow me to copy and paste. They had a section for players form other countires playing in this year tournament. They had the following on Zuaznabar:

He was a member of the Cuban Junior Team in World Tournament in Quebec 2002. He played 2 years for Metropolitanos before seaking refugee in Venezuela. With Hugo Chavez?:hp

Imagine a Cuban defector seaking help from Chavez! He only played 11 games in the Venezuelan Summer League (final 2 weeks) and was not able to travel to the USA in 2005. He supposely batted 301 en 2004 for the Metros.
He plays 3B ant outfield. He is 6'0 and weights 180 pounds. He is 21. He was 11 out of 44 in Venezuela for a 250 average.




From the 2004-05 season files: I changed the age already.

Reinier Bermúdez Collazo
Fecha de Nacimiento: 6 de enero de 1985
Lugar: Plaza, Ciudad de la Habana
Edad: 21 años
Estatura: 1´78
Peso: 70 kg
Batea: Derecha
Tira: Derecha
Posición: Lanzador
Series: 1
Equipos: Metropolitanos e Industriales (Nacional)
Debut: XLIII Serie Nacional 2003-04 con Metropolitanos
Residencia: Plaza, Ciudad de la Habana
Equipos en la Serie Provincial: Cerro

Bermúdez debutó con Metropolitanos en la pasada contienda, y tuvo buenas actuaciones a pesar de su promedio de limpias de 4.83. Relevó 13 juegos y abrió en dos oportunidad, mostrando talento y condiciones para convertirse en un pitcher ganador dentro de nuestras Series Nacionales. Estaba inicialmente en el roster de Metros en esta justa, pero un cambio de última hora lo traspasó a la selección azul por el también lanzador derecho David Álvarez Pombo.


Hassan Pena
Fecha de Nacimiento: 25 de marzo de 1985
Lugar: Centro Habana, Ciudad de la Habana
Edad: 21 años
Estatura: 1´84
Peso: 83 kg
Batea: Derecha
Tira: Derecha
Posición: Lanzador
Series: 1
Equipos: Metropolitanos e Industriales (Nacional)
Debut: XLIII Serie Nacional 2003-04 con Metropolitanos
Residencia: Centro Habana, Ciudad de la Habana
Número: 34
Equipos en la Serie Provincial: Centro Habana

Posee todo lo necesario para que se convierta con el paso de algunos años en uno de los mejores lanzadores cubanos. Condiciones físicas idóneas para lanzar y una velocidad elevada que combina con efectivos lanzamientos en rompimiento, le dieron buenas actuaciones en la pasada serie, en la que no obstante le faltó estabilidad. Poco a poco debe ir madurando en todos los sentidos, para que de esa manera los mismos resultados sobresalientes en las categorías precedentes pueda mantenerlo en la Serie Nacional e incluso, extrafronteras.


Save your info before it is gone.........I am glad I saved some of the teams info before it was gone.

[Agente Libre]

Thanks. I really miss those bio's from last year. I saved most of the good players but not every single one (like Zuaznabar).

[Cubano100%]

http://www.pbcc.edu/Sports/bio.asp?sport=1&roster_id=339

[Cubano100%]

http://www.mdc.edu/athletics/docs/BASEBALL%20ROSTER.pdf

Catcher Hanseld Diaz was selected by the Yankees in the 2005 draft. I guess he went back to college.

Wasn't Yohan Limonta in the group of players that came with Escobar, Guevara, Cordero and Galvizo?

[Agente Libre]

Yes he was; he went undrafted. Glad to see he's still playing. I thought he was a better prospect than a couple of the players who were drafted. Hope he does well.

[Agente Libre]

Haven't seen any scores this weekend from So. Fla. college baseball; if anyone has a Hassan Pena update, please post it. Assume he's pitched at least once since last weekend's games.

[Cubano100%]

Ariel Prieto se deshace de su ‘rabia’
6 de febrero de 2006

VALENCIA, Carabobo, Venezuela.— El tiempo transcurrido desde que el Departamento del Tesoro de Estados Unidos aprobó la participación de Cuba en el Clásico Mundial de Beisbol no ha curado las heridas que tal decisión causó al lanzador cubano Ariel Prieto.

Antes de que Cuba fuera admitida oficialmente en el campeonato que enfrentará a 16 países, algunos sectores del exilio cubano en Estados Unidos plantearon la idea de armar un equipo compuesto por los peloteros que han desertado de la isla.

“Estoy molesto por no poder jugar en ese torneo. Tengo rabia por eso”, dijo Prieto a ESPNdeportes.

“Cuba no tiene que participar en ese torneo porque siempre ha criticado el beisbol profesional. Si Fidel Castro no quiere profesionalismo que se vaya a casa del c&$%*”, dijo Prieto.

“Los peloteros cubanos que hemos desertado por los problemas políticos en Cuba podíamos armar un equipo para jugar en el Clásico Mundial”, agregó Prieto, quien desertó de la isla en 1995.

“La culpa de eso la tienen Estados Unidos y el beisbol organizado de las Grandes Ligas, que es la peor porquería que existe”, agregó.

Prieto aclaró que no tiene nada en contra de los peloteros de la selección nacional cubana, pero que esta incómodo por su aprobación para jugar en el Clásico. El derecho se encuentra en Venezuela participando en la Serie del Caribe como refuerzo de los Venados de Mazatlán, campeones de México. Prieto lanzó con los Yaquis de Ciudad Obregón en la temporada regular de la Liga Mexicana del Pacifico y luego se trasladó a Venezuela para reforzar a los Tigres de Aragua, que cayeron en la final ante los Leones de Caracas.

Prieto, de 35 años, lanzó en seis temporadas en las Grandes Ligas con Oakland y Tampa Bay entre 1995 y 2001. Tuvo una marca de 15-24 y efectividad 4.85 en 70 partidos en las Ligas Mayores.


To sum up, Ariel Prieto, a Cuban player who saw action with Oakland, is mad because Cuba is allowed to play in the classic. He does not understand why MLB allows Cuba to send a team when Castro abolished professional baseball in Cuba and have criticized professional baseball over the years. MLB officials are hypocritical. He also stated that he does not have anything against the Cuban players on the team.

[cuban_aficionado]

Ariel Prieto se deshace de su ‘rabia’
6 de febrero de 2006

VALENCIA, Carabobo, Venezuela.— El tiempo transcurrido desde que el Departamento del Tesoro de Estados Unidos aprobó la participación de Cuba en el Clásico Mundial de Beisbol no ha curado las heridas que tal decisión causó al lanzador cubano Ariel Prieto.

Antes de que Cuba fuera admitida oficialmente en el campeonato que enfrentará a 16 países, algunos sectores del exilio cubano en Estados Unidos plantearon la idea de armar un equipo compuesto por los peloteros que han desertado de la isla.

“Estoy molesto por no poder jugar en ese torneo. Tengo rabia por eso”, dijo Prieto a ESPNdeportes.

“Cuba no tiene que participar en ese torneo porque siempre ha criticado el beisbol profesional. Si Fidel Castro no quiere profesionalismo que se vaya a casa del c&$%*”, dijo Prieto.

“Los peloteros cubanos que hemos desertado por los problemas políticos en Cuba podíamos armar un equipo para jugar en el Clásico Mundial”, agregó Prieto, quien desertó de la isla en 1995.

“La culpa de eso la tienen Estados Unidos y el beisbol organizado de las Grandes Ligas, que es la peor porquería que existe”, agregó.

Prieto aclaró que no tiene nada en contra de los peloteros de la selección nacional cubana, pero que esta incómodo por su aprobación para jugar en el Clásico. El derecho se encuentra en Venezuela participando en la Serie del Caribe como refuerzo de los Venados de Mazatlán, campeones de México. Prieto lanzó con los Yaquis de Ciudad Obregón en la temporada regular de la Liga Mexicana del Pacifico y luego se trasladó a Venezuela para reforzar a los Tigres de Aragua, que cayeron en la final ante los Leones de Caracas.

Prieto, de 35 años, lanzó en seis temporadas en las Grandes Ligas con Oakland y Tampa Bay entre 1995 y 2001. Tuvo una marca de 15-24 y efectividad 4.85 en 70 partidos en las Ligas Mayores.


To sum up, Ariel Prieto, a Cuban player who saw action with Oakland, is mad because Cuba is allowed to play in the classic. He does not understand why MLB allows Cuba to send a team when Castro abolished professional baseball in Cuba and have criticized professional baseball over the years. MLB officials are hypocritical. He also stated that he does not have anything against the Cuban players on the team.

YES HE DID IT, PRIETO TOLD IT LIKE IT IS!!!!!!!!:D :dance :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Agente Libre]

Still haven't seen any updates or news stories about Hassan Pena since early February. Anyone know how he's doing at Palm Beach Comm. College?

[Kiefer]

Betancourt can’t outrun home base (http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/mariners/story/5534052p-4983621c.html).

[Cubano100%]

Still haven't seen any updates or news stories about Hassan Pena since early February. Anyone know how he's doing at Palm Beach Comm. College?


Either you scared him away or Hassan got rocked. You never know how many people read this forum.

[Agente Libre]

What do you mean, scared him away? He's the one that started posting here. All I did was ask for an update. I don't think the results of Palm Beach's games are top secret.

[cuban_aficionado]

Spring Training is Back:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060220/ap_on_sp_ba_ne/bbn_nationals_hernandez_1

Article about Hernandez's physical condition..

[Cubano100%]

Atlanta is closed to sign another Cuban!!!!!!


Braves get 2 Cubans


Braves sign Cuban defector By Bill Shanks
BravesCenter Publisher
Date: Feb 17, 2006

BravesCenter.com has learned the Atlanta Braves have agreed to contracts with two Cuban defectors. Bill Shanks has the exclusive information.

BravesCenter.com has learned that the Atlanta Braves have signed two Cuban defectors that could play in the upper level of the farm system in 2006.

The Braves have signed outfielder Barbaro Canizares and agreed to a deal with left-handed pitcher Francisley Bueno. The deals represent a greater emphasis on the international market by the Braves, who were helped with their international scouting earlier this winter by the return of Rene Francisco from the Dodgers as the International Scouting Director.

Canizares just turned 26 years old last November. He’s six-foot-two, 220 pounds and can play the outfield, first base, and even catch. Canizares played this winter in the Nicaraguan Winter League and hit .352 with 10 home runs and 29 runs batted in 54 games and 193 at bats. He also had a .445 on base percentage. He played on the same team with Braves’ prospects Ardley Jansen, Devin Anderson, and Ben Grezlovski.

Canizares defected in February of 2004 from Cuba. He spent some time in Mexico, but finally went to Costa Rica in order to become a free agent. Canizares played on the Industriales a few years ago with Yunel Escobar, who was Atlanta’s second round pick in last June’s draft.???

Here is a link to a story a reporter for the Miami Herald did on Canizares back in December. The Braves expect Canizares to go to camp and compete for a job with the Mississippi team as a corner outfielder.

Bueno will turn 25 years old on March 5th. He was the Player of the Year in Cuba in 2002 and on Cuba’s Gold-winning Olympic team in 2004. He has been playing this winter in the Dominican Winter League with the Escogido Lions, with Wilson Betemit being one of his teammates. Bueno is being compared by Braves’ scouts to Odalis Perez. He has a fastball in the 88-92 mph range, along with a sharp curve, a change up, and a split. But his curve ball is his main breaking ball. Bueno is 5’11”, 200 pounds. He’ll compete for a job as a starter with the Double-A team this spring at Disney.

The Braves believe Bueno is their best addition this winter from the international market. Francisco was also instrumental in the signing of Yoel Campusano, a 17-year-old third baseman from the Dominican. The Braves compare Campusano's body type to that of Adrian Beltre at the same age. Campusano will be in Florida this spring and fight for a job on the Gulf Coast League roster.

Atlanta is negotiating with at least one more Cuban defector and hopes to have a deal soon. :clapping

The Braves also signed catcher Jon Williams to a minor league contract. The left-handed hitter will turn 27 this May. He was drafted by the Giants in 2001 and last played in their system in 2002. Williams will fight for a backup catcher's job with Myrtle Beach at Disney.


Bill Shanks is the author of Scout's Honor: The Bravest Way To Build A Winning Team, a look inside the Braves‘ traditional scouting and player development philosophies.


The Cuban Braves!!!!!!



Any team is fine except the AA Marlins!

Or the Orioles which refuse to sign Cuban defectors!:grouchy

[Agente Libre]

Bueno should be an interesting player, but it's amazing that in 2006, with so much info. available, that stupid errors are still made by the media. Bueno wasn't even ON the 2004 Olympic team, let alone the "player of the year." (He got kicked off Cuba's Olympic pre-selection for failing a drug test, then he defected.)

[Cubano100%]

Livan Hernandez, Isla de la Juventud Grapefruit Growers

An Isle of Youth native, Livan joined the Team Cuba in 1994 at the age of 19. After defecting, he joined the Florida Marlins for their 1997 World Series victory over the Indians, winning series MVP. Traded to San Francisco and then to Montreal, Livan has one of the better ERA's in the majors. Today he is the Washington Nationals' ace starter who made the '05 NL All-Star roster


http://www.cubancards.com/images/gallery/LivanHernandez.jpg

Courtesy of Cubancards.com

[Cubano100%]

Orlando Hernandez "El Duke", Havana Industriales:clapping :clapping

A former Havana Industriales, Hernandez defected in ‘97 with a 126-47 record. He would become a legend with the New York Yankees, helping win the World Series in '98, '99 and 2000. In '03 he joined his half-brother Livan with the Expos, and signed with the Yanks in '04 for an excellent half-season. During '05 he became a reliever with the World Series champion Chicago White Sox and was traded to Arizona for '06.

http://www.cubancards.com/images/gallery/OrlandoHernandez.jpg
Courtesy of Cubancards.com

[Cubano100%]

Rolando Arrojo, Villa Clara Orange Growers

From Villa Clara province, Arrojo was on Cuba’s 1992 Olympic squad. He defected in ’96, signing with the Tampa Bay Devil Rays. In ’98 he appeared in the All-Star game and was runner-up to the AL rookie of the year. He also played for the Rockies and Red Sox and in '03 he joined the Yankees’ organization.

http://www.cubancards.com/images/gallery/Rolando-Arrojo.jpg
Courtesy of Cubancards.com

[Cubano100%]

Vladimir Nuñez, Havana Cowboys

From Guanajay in Havana Province, Nuñez played in 3 Serie Nacional seasons prior to defecting in Venezuela in 1995. He played with the Arizona Diamondbacks in ‘98 and moved to the Florida Marlins in ’99. In 2001 he had a 2.74 ERA in 52 relief appearances. In 2004 he relieved for the Colorado Rockies, then went to the Texas Rangers. The in '05 he signed a minor league contract with the Diamondbacks.

http://www.cubancards.com/images/gallery/Vladimir-Nunez.jpg
Courtesy of Cubancards.com

[Cubano100%]

Osvaldo Fernandez, Holguin Hounds

A standout on Team Cuba, the Holguin native had a 3.30 ERA in 8 Serie Nacional outings. Fernandez pitched for the San Francisco Giants in ’96 and ’97 and missed the ’98 and ’99 seasons, before returning with the Reds in ’00 and ’01. In ’02 he was with Expos minor league system and was released by the Reds in the spring of ’03.

http://www.cubancards.com/images/gallery/OsvaldoFernandez.jpg
Courtesy of Cubancards.com

[Cubano100%]

Ariel Prieto, Isla de la Juventud Grapefruit Croppers

Prieto, who played in 10 Serie Nacional seasons with the Isle of Youth, left Cuba in 1994. He pitched as a starter and reliever with the Oakland A’s from ’95 – ’98 and fought through injuries. Back with the A’s in 2000 and then re-injured, he mid-relieved for the Devil Rays in ’01. In '04 he attempted a comeback with the Detroit Tigers' AAA Toledo Mudhens.

http://www.cubancards.com/images/gallery/APrieto.jpg
Courtesy of Cubancards.com

[Cubano100%]

Jorge Luis Toca, Villa Clara Orange Growers

A first baseman with three Serie Nacional championship teams in Villa Clara, Toca batted .319 in 8 seasons. He defected in 1998 and signed with the New York Mets in '99. Toca saw 25 games in the majors between ’99 and ’01 and was traded to the Pirates’ organization in ’03. In '04 he played for the Tigers' AAA Toledo Mudhens and, in January of '05, Toca signed a minor league contract with the White Sox.

http://www.cubancards.com/images/gallery/Jorge-Luis-Toca.jpg
Courtesy of Cubancards.com

[Cubano100%]

Yobal Dueñas, Pinar del Rio Cigar Makers

The second baseman from Pinar de Rió first joined Team Cuba in 1999. Yobal cracked a dramatic two run homer at the 2002 Intercontinental Cup in Havana to give Cuba a 2-1 win over South Korea and the cup. He defected in November of 2003 and signed with the Columbus Clippers.

http://www.cubancards.com/images/gallery/YobalDuenas.jpg
Courtesy of Cubancards.com

[Cubano100%]

Euclides Rojas, Industriales Lions

The former Havana Industriales is remembered as one of the best relievers Cuba has seen. Rojas left Cuba in 1994 and played in the short-lived Western Baseball League before signing with the Marlins’ organization. He was the Boston Red Sox’s bullpen coach for the '03 and '04 seasons. Rojas played 13 seasons in Cuba with a 2.93 ERA.

http://www.cubancards.com/images/gallery/EuclidesRojas.jpg
Courtesy of Cubancards.com

[Cubano100%]

Great! Looks like Michel Abreu can not travel yet. This is why I am never critical of Cuban defectors. By the time they get to USA, they are mentally exausted.:mad:


http://amcostarica.com/thursday.htm

[Kiefer]

Betancourt's Daring Dash From Cuba Into Mariners' Lineup Not Yet Complete (http://www.kirotv.com/sports/7404044/detail.html?rss=sea&psp=sports).

[cuban_aficionado]

Yuniesky Betancourt stroked a two-run single against Padres ace Jake Peavy to score the only two runs for the padres on a 10 ining exhibition game.:clapping :clapping :clapping

The article doesn't have much but this is the link:

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060302&content_id=1331079&vkey=spt2006gamer&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

[Cubano100%]

Kendry Morales had 2 singles in 3 AB with 2 RBI in his first exibition game in the Major Leagues.

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/boxscore.jsp?gid=2006_03_02_milmlb_anamlb_1

Brayan Pena 1-2.

Danys Baez pitched a scoreless inning.

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/boxscore.jsp?gid=2006_03_02_atlmlb_lanmlb_1

[Agente Libre]

Anyone heard any updates on Abreu and Canizares' visas; Yamel Guevara, J.M. Miranda or Ayalen Ortiz's efforts to sign contracts; or Hassan Pena's performance at Palm Beach Comm College?

[cuban_aficionado]

El Duke is already pitching for his new team. Orlando Hernandez pitched two scoreless innings Saturday and he got the win for Arizona. :clapping :clapping :clapping


http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/recap;_ylt=AlDtvnK5xi6a3gft942irvQRvLYF?gid=260304 104

[Cubano100%]

Today, El Toro Soler pitches for the Mets and Baez for the Dodgers in the same game.

There 3 players from Pinar del Rio that played together in Cuba and may be playing in the Majors this year: Contreras, Baez and Soler.
If we could send our players freely, there would be many Cubans in the Majors.

Kendry doubled in 3 AB.

http://www.cubancards.com/images/gallery/MuchachoKendry.jpg

[jon7jmets]

Gammons


The Mets and the Puerto Rican team will play tomorrow in an ESPN-televised game at 2:10 p.m. Mets brass plans to use the game to showcase to the nation some of its top talent. Fernando Martinez, the 17-year-old Dominican outfielder who signed for $1.4 million in July, is scheduled to play. So is highly regarded fourth-round pick Hector Pellot, a teenage second baseman from Puerto Rico. Outfielder Lastings Milledge and 2005 first-round pick Mike Pelfrey also are penciled in. :clapping

[jon7jmets]

Soler 1.2ip 3hit 3er 3hr.

[Cubano100%]

Soler 1.2ip 3hit 3er 3hr.


It was a catastrophic debut for sure. Let's hope next time will be different.

[Cubano100%]

Yunel Escobar has been playing SS and RF for the Braves during Spring trainning.

The other day he hit a double in 1 AB.

March 6, 2006

Y Escobar rf 2-0
B Pena ph 1-1
K Morales 1-0

[Cubano100%]

MDCC Cuban Players

ESPA Cubana

NAME GP AB Runs H 2B 3B HR BA RBI
Hamzeld Diaz 18.0 56.0 15.0 27.0 4.0 0.0 2.0 0.482 17.0
Johan Limonta 19.0 64.0 20.0 25.0 4.0 3.0 3.0 0.391 14.0

[joe-fan]

Hassan Pena pitched agaist Miami-dade this last tuesday, Mach 7, 2006. He pitched 7 perfect innings. 8K, No hits, no walks, no hit batters. Many scouts were present.

[Cubano100%]

Angels prospect Super Kendry Morales hit his first homer. 1-2 with 1 RBI.

Tempe, AZ (Sports Network) - Kendry Morales' ninth inning homer gave the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim a 6-5 win over the San Francisco Giants, 6-5, in Cactus League action at Tempe Diablo Stadium.

Mariners SS Y. Betancourt 1-3.

Braves SS prospect Y. Escobar 2-4 with a double.

Braves C prospect B. Pena 0-1.

L. Hernandez pitched 3 innings with 3 hits 1 ER 2 walks and 2 SO.

[aarond23]

I love Livan Hernandez. I think he's one of those ageless guys that will be able to pitch into his 40s. A great hitter also.

Would you agree he is the best Cuban in recent memory?

And where is Rene Arocha today?

[Cubano100%]

I do not know about Arocha wherabouts. He was the first one who walked away from the Cuban team. He started at age 15 in the Cuba National League. He was one of my favorites. He had some injuries prior of his defection. The same goes for Ariel Prieto.

In the late 80's and early 90's, the Industriales Lions had the best pitching in Cuba. Lazaro Valle would have been a Cy Young in USA. Orlando "El Duke" Hernandez, Renee Arocha, Lazaro de la Torre, Jose Modesto Darcourt, Ivan Alvarez, Osvaldo Fernandez (no the one with the Giants), Alfredo Despaigne y Euclides Rojas were also part of the team. I am not from Havana but that was the team I rooted for. My team sucks!

If you talk about Cuban pitchers in the USA, Contreras has the most talent. El Duke the most heart and Livan the most durability. However, the Expos-Nationals over use him a lot. He throws to many pitches per game. The Nationals need a new owner soon.

Lazaro Valle was number one in Cuba in the 90's and El Duke barely was the number 4th starter for the National team. Valle had a high 90's fastball, great slider, changeup and curveball. Never defected and should be having hard time now. No vision whatsever! I heard when I was in Cuba that he did not want to leave his old mom behind.
Sometimes defecting is not easy as people think.

Hopefully, the end is soon.

[aarond23]

http://www.leaguelineup.com/WELCOME.ASP?URL=SPONSOR

http://www.cubanball.com/Images/Majors/MajorsAB/ArochaR/arochar.html

A google is mi amigo...looks like Arocha has a baseball school in Miami and was inducted into the 'Cuban Sports Hall of Fame' in 2004. :)

[Cubano100%]

Thanks for the info!

[Rennie Stennett]

Since the WBC is played in the States, do you think any members of the Cuban team will defect after the WBC is over ?

[Cubano100%]

Since the WBC is played in the States, do you think any members of the Cuban team will defect after the WBC is over ?


To much security around them. Cuba is a close society where only the government controls the TV, radio and media. Despite some radio stations from Miami, Cubans do not know a lot about the world. There are a lot of security around them and I bet you many players think of their families who would be left behind. After Contreras defected, the Cuban government blackmailed his wife and retained her and his 2 daughter despite having visas for Nicaragua and the USA.

They can not go back to Cuba to see their relatives either.

[Cucamongadan]

I was thinking its too bad there's no Cuban defectors playing for their new country in the WBC- I'd love to see it happen (but , on reflection, I guess a better wish for the future would be to see them playing for a free Cuba).

[Cubano100%]

Morales making powerful impression
Better defense, plus slugging, add up to roster consideration
By Mike Scarr / MLB.com




TEMPE, Ariz. -- Once considered a "can't-miss" Major League prospect, Kendry Morales is quickly moving into the "can't-ignore" class.
The 22-year-old is showing the offensive skills this spring for the Angels that vaulted him into legendary status as a mere teenager in his native Cuba. Morales is also demonstrating that his future may not solely rest on his ability to swing a bat as he works to improve his defensive fundamentals around the bag at first base.

Morales, though, is just pleased with the opportunity.

"I feel that I am ready," Morales said through an interpreter. "But [Spring Training] is a good experience."

Morales is hitting .406 this spring and leads the Angels in doubles, extra-base hits and total bases. None of which comes as a surprise, exactly, but the pace at which he grows comfortable with the next level of pitching has been impressive.

"Good hitters make adjustments and he has been making adjustments," hitting coach Mickey Hatcher said. "You don't do that, you're not going to survive at this level, but he's been doing that."

Morales has been making impressions ever since he landed on American soil.

After joining Class A Rancho Cucamonga last May 21, Morales drilled the second pitch he saw for a home run. In 22 games for the Quakes, he hit .344 with five homers and 17 RBIs to earn a promotion to Double-A.

That step slowed his progress, initially. Through 12 games, Morales was hitting just .156 without a home run, but a big night against San Antonio changed all that when he exploded for a three-home run and five RBIs.

Morales homered in four straight games from July 30-Aug. 3 and later in August, he embarked on a 15-game hitting streak that helped him earn organizational Player of the Month honors. He ended his year at Arkansas hitting .306 with 17 homers and 54 RBIs.

But his year wasn't done. Morales hit .380 in 14 Arizona Fall League games and led the developmental circuit with 14 doubles.

All of which served as a ringing endorsement for the Angels' six-year deal they signed him to on Dec. 1, 2004. Again, no surprise, as it came on a resume built during his playing days in Cuba.

Morales hit .330 during his career there and became the first teen since Omar Linares in the 1980s to play for the Cuban national team when he suited up in 2002. During the 2002-03 season, Morales hit .391 with nine homers and 42 RBIs for Industriales and then starred in the Baseball World Cup by hitting a grand slam as Cuba claimed the gold medal with a victory in the final over Taiwan.

Still, the number that might be the most impressive is nine, which is the number of times it took Morales to successfully defect to the U.S. He did not play at all in 2004 after being banned by the Cuban government following his attempts to leave the country.

When Morales finally did get out of Cuba by boat, his ordeal was not quite over as he waited to establish residency in the Dominican Republic and become a citizen there before gaining legal entrance to the U.S. By the time he arrived last year, Spring Training was over and he was sent to Rancho Cucamonga.

Now the burgeoning offensive phenom, whom the Angels have followed since he was 16, is living up to the hype and presenting the club with a decision, if not some interesting options.

"He's definitely put himself on our depth chart," manager Mike Scioscia said. "If he is a part of our best lineup and our best offense, he will be a part of our ballclub."

Morales is being considered for a possible DH role and back up at first base. Currently Juan Rivera is the leading candidate for DH, with Dallas McPherson as a left-handed option if he doesn't win the third baseman's job. But McPherson is 1-for-9 this spring and is trying to return from hip surgery that has been complicated recently by a right oblique strain.

Also in the DH mix are Tim Salmon and Robb Quinlan. Salmon is hitting .360 in nine spring games but is no longer an option in the outfield. Quinlan is hitting just .231 in 10 games, but he can play as many as four positions.

Morales played third and the outfield and even pitched once for Cuba, but the Angels are working him exclusively at first where they believe his skills are most suited and will allow him the quickest advancement to the Majors.

"I have been very impressed with his work ethic and dedication to become better at his position," said Minor League roving infield instructor Rob Picciolo. "The one thing he must improve on is consistency, make the plays on a daily basis. But I see improvement in almost every area."

Morales will not cause anyone to forget about Casey Kotchman or Darin Erstad at first, but he is gaining the trust of the club that he can play the position adequately.

The recent setback to Garret Anderson, who has a strained left arch, has also put Morales in a better position for a team that is still in need of some offensive punch. The Angels are not about to be blinded by his sparking spring numbers but find them encouraging nonetheless.

"I've seen guys hit .900 in Spring Training and when the lights go on, they struggle," Hatcher said. "The challenge is when opposing pitchers start turning it up a notch. But there is not a guy in this room that doesn't believe he can't handle the challenge."

The likely destination for Morales has been Triple-A, but the young hitter is showing that he aspires to a higher level and that might be sooner than expected.

"What kind of role he is able to forge, we will have to see," Scioscia said. "There is still time."

Time and place are two luxuries which Morales can now afford to enjoy.

Mike Scarr is a reporter for MLB.com. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.


http://losangeles.angels.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060315&content_id=1351395&vkey=spt2006news&fext=.jsp&c_id=ana





Kendry Morales, a switch hitter, was the cleanup hitter for the Cuban team. I just can not stop thinking of having an one-two punch with Yuliesky Gourriel and Kendry Morales during the WBC. By the way, both are 22 years old.

[aarond23]

Hey Cubano...here's a question....why do all the Cuban players have normal Latino names except for the fast outfielder Leslie Anderson?

Any ideas?

[Cubano100%]

Anderson is from my hometown. Before Columbus arrived in Cuba, there were between 50,000-100,000 native Indians in Cuba. They were weak compared to the Central, South and North American Indians. They were wiped out due to deseases brought by the Europeans and hard labor. The Spanish brought slaves from Africa to replace the Indians. Then, in the 1800's and the first half of the 1900's there were a lot immigrants coming to Cuba from Spain, other Carribbean islands such as Hispanola (Haiti and D.R.), Jamaica, Jews, etc.

In the east coast in Cuba, you will see a lot of colored people with heritage from those Carribbean islands and Africa. They came to work in Cuba. When Castro took power, we began to received influence from former Communists countries. This is why we have Serguei, Vladimir, etc. Then, Cubans started to move out and immigrants stopped coming.

The USA influence is big still. When Cubans look up, we only see this gigantic mass of land call North America with a super culture (music, fashion, sports, etc). On top of that, many Cubans have relatives in the states so parents will give their kids English sounding names.

But I assume Leslie Anderson's ascentors are from Jamaica.

He is one of the best players for my hometown team, the Camaguey Ceramists. Him and RHP Villo Odelin, both member of the Cuban team. Another good one is Loidel Chapelli who is in my Avatar.

We have rare names specially the young Cubans that do not fall in any language such as Odelin's first name. If he defects, Americans will shorten his name immediately. I can not say it nor write it myself. You can look it up in the Cuban roster to see what I am talking about.

[Agente Libre]

... also, even though it's a very, very, very small group, there is a population of exiles from other countries living in Cuba (fugitives, deserters, etc.) and it's not out of the realm of possibility that the Anderson kid is related to one of them. (People have been talking about his name for years; "Leslie" is rare enough, let alone "Leslie Anderson". Just looking at the kid, he looks more like a black kid from U.S. than a Latin kid from Cuba or D.R.)

[Kiefer]

There are a lot of players that have rare last names, examples: Yorelbis Charles, Pedro Poll, Yoelmis Poll, Roger Poll, Maikel Folch, Michel Fors, Ifreidy Coss, Yoelbis Fiss, Antonio Scull, William Pons, Kenen Bally, Alexei Bell, Jorge Smith, etc.

[Agente Libre]

Yes, but when it comes to odd Cuban names, Leslie Anderson is definitely the king. When he first showed up on a Cuban roster (in Canada in 2000), everyone thought it was a mistake.

[Kiefer]

Yeah, moreover his full name is Leslie Anderson Stephes.

[Agente Libre]

Maybe his parents are a couple of 60's radicals who moved to Castro's paradise. Would love to know his family background.

[cuban_aficionado]

Contreras pitching gets noticed in Spring Trainig Games....:clapping :clapping :clapping

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060325&content_id=1362424&vkey=spt2006news&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws


El Duke # 2 Starter for the Diamondbacks…:radio :D :D :D

http://arizona.diamondbacks.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060325&content_id=1362938&vkey=spt2006news&fext=.jsp&c_id=ari


Kendry Morales today batted 1-2 with 2 RBI following yesterday’s performance of 3-4 with two Homeruns scoring the only two runs in the Angel’s win…..

:crazy :crazy

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/boxscore.jsp?gid=2006_03_26_seamlb_anamlb_1

http://losangeles.angels.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060325&content_id=1362461&vkey=spt2006gamer&fext=.jsp&c_id=ana

[Agente Libre]

Also read a note today that Francisley Bueno and Barbaro Canizares are still absent from Braves camp because of visa problems.

[Agente Libre]

Anyone have an update on Cuban defector Roberto Alvarez, an outfielder from Matanzas who arrived in Miami in February 2005? I heard he went to D.R. for free agency last year but haven't heard anything since then.

[Martin Dihigo]

I know could be some lost data, but i will appreciate any help to complete this info. I want to create a database or centralized web to follow all defectors (its not a good word in my opinion) over the years. Other idea could be colaborate with cubanball.com to create this kind of database. what do you think about this ?

2005 Major League Players

Orlando Hernandez ------------- Chicago White Sox
Jose Ariel Contreras ---------- Chicago White Sox
Alex Sanchez ------------------ San Francisco Giants
Brayan Peña ------------------- Atlanta BRaves
Yuniesky Betancourt ----------- Seattle Mariners
Danys Baez -------------------- Tampa Bay Devil Rays
Livan Hernandez --------------- Washington Nationals
Michael Tejera ---------------- Texas Rangers

2005 Minor League Players on Team Rosters

Saidel Beltran ---------------- Charleston Riverdogs (A) ------ New York Yankees P
Jose Angel Cordero ------------ GLC Twins (R) ----------------- Minnesota Twins P
Arian Cruz -------------------- Chattanooga Lookouts (AA) ----- Cincinnati Reds P
Juan Carlos Diaz -------------- Springfield Cardinals (AA) ---- St. Louis Cardinals 1B
Yobal Dueñas ------------------ Trenton Thunder (AA) ---------- New York Yankees 2B
Yunel Escobar ----------------- Rome Braves (A) --------------- Atlanta Braves SS
Osvaldo Fernandez ------------- Tabasco Olmecas (AAA) --------- Mexican League P
Rafael Galbizo ---------------- GLC Marlins (R) --------------- Florida Marlins P
Gary Galvez ------------------- Greenville Bombers (A) -------- Boston Red Sox P
Adrian Hernandez -------------- Vaqueros Laguna (AAA) --------- Mexican League P
Michel Hernandez -------------- Portland Beavers (AAA) -------- San Diego Padres C
Hansel Izquierdo -------------- Altoona Curve (AA) ------------ Pittsburgh Pirates P
Maikel Jova ------------------- New Hampshire Fisher Cats (AA)- Toronto Blue Jays OF
Kendry Morales ---------------- Arkansas Travelers (AA) ------- Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim 1B
Juan Carlos Muñiz ------------- Carolina Mudcats (AA) --------- Florida Marlins OF
Vladimir Nuñez ---------------- Tucson Toros (AAA) ------------ Arizona Diamondbacks P
Eddie Oropesa ----------------- Tabasco Olmecas (AAA) --------- Mexican League P
Branyan Peña ------------------ Richmond Braves (AAA) --------- Atlanta Braves C
Joel Perez -------------------- GLC Yankees (R) --------------- New York Yankees OF
Josue Perez ------------------- AZL Rangers (R) --------------- Texas Rangers OF
Miguel Perez ------------------ Saltillo Saraperos (AAA) ------ Mexican League P
Nestor Perez ------------------ Visalia Oaks (A-Adv) ---------- Tampa Bay Devil Rays 2B
William Plaza ----------------- Charleston Riverdogs (A) ------ New York Yankees C
Ariel Prieto ------------------ Albuquerque Isotopes (AAA) ---- Florida Marlins P
Mayque Quintero --------------- Potomac Nationals (A-Adv) ----- Washington Nationals P
Maels Rodriguez --------------- Missoula Ospreys (R) ---------- Arizona Diamondbacks P
Jorge Luis Toca --------------- Charlotte Knights (AAA) ------- Chicago White Sox 1B
Raul Valdez ------------------- Iowa Cubs (AAA) --------------- Chicago Cubs P
Rolando Viera* ---------------- Tabasco Olmecas (AAA) --------- Mexican League P

2005 Independent League Players on Team Rosters

Edisbel Benitez* -------------- El Paso Diablos --------------- Central League P
Jose Cano* -------------------- El Paso Diablos --------------- Central League IF
Carlos Castillo --------------- El Paso Diablos --------------- Central League IF
Carlos Castillo --------------- Newark Bears ------------------ Atlantic League P
Jorge Diaz -------------------- El Paso Diablos --------------- Central League IF
Alexis Hernandez -------------- Yuma Scorpions ---------------- Golden Baseball League C
Oscar Macias ------------------ El Paso Diablos --------------- Central League IF
Agustin Marquetti* ------------ El Paso Diablos --------------- Central League P
Rolando Viera ----------------- Elmira Pioneers --------------- CAN-AM League P
Amaury Casañas ---------------- Elmira Pioneers --------------- CAN-AM League IF
Yolexandry Reina -------------- Toronto Maple Leafs ----------- Intercounty Baseball League P

2005 International League Players on Team Rosters

Jesus Ametller ---------------- Warriors Paterno -------------- Italian League 2B
Roberto Colina ---------------- Caffe Danesi Nettuno ---------- Italian League 1B
William Ortega ---------------- Caffe Danesi Nettuno ---------- Italian League OF
Amauri Sanit ------------------ El Boer ----------------------- Nicaraguan League P
Julio Cesar Villalon ------------- Palfinger Reggio Emilia --------- Italian League P
* Released

B.

bppb266

Dejame saber si te puedo ayudar armar una data base . . . .

[Cubano100%]

Also read a note today that Francisley Bueno and Barbaro Canizares are still absent from Braves camp because of visa problems.

By the time they get here they will be collecting Medicare. They have wasted almost 2 o 3 years since they left. Then, we have to read articles in the media about how bad Cuban players are.

Where did you read that note?

[Mattingly]

Also read a note today that Francisley Bueno and Barbaro Canizares are still absent from Braves camp because of visa problems.
Anyone have an update on Cuban defector Roberto Alvarez, an outfielder from Matanzas who arrived in Miami in February 2005? I heard he went to D.R. for free agency last year but haven't heard anything since then.
Don't these guys have immigration attorneys who can smooth things out for them? I figured that instead of filling out countless forms, they could get someone who knew exactly what the quicker process was.

I've known a few, and part of the process involved getting letters of recommendation from people they've worked with (mostly people in the fashion, music, engineering fields). I'm not sure how it would be done for people who've sought asylum from another country.

[Agente Libre]

Cubano100% -- I read the note in either the Atlanta paper or in one of the Braves' minor league affiliates' papers (Mississippi or Myrtle Beach).


Mattingly -- The biggest problem with defectors is most of the recent ones have been with smugglers and not agents. With about 95% of them, their cases get so screwed up that there's no easy fix, and then, after the players have been out for so long, no one wants to get involved because it's expensive and the players' values have dropped to nothing (like with Michel Abreu, Barbaro Canizares, etc.)

A lot of these guys were taken to the D.R. illegally, and then the D.R. stopped granting papers to Cubans and they've been stuck ever since. They have no D.R. papers, and no other papers to travel out of D.R. with. It's a scandal, really, but one the media hasn't really covered.

[Cubano100%]

No more Free Agent!

Finally, they are here in America, the land of the free.


Staff starts task of setting up rosters

LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla. | It's getting to be that time. The minor leaguers in the Atlanta Braves system should know their fates no later than Friday, as the player development staff gets down to the serious business of assembling the rosters for the individual affiliates.

The player development staff was scheduled to have the first of several meetings Sunday night to determine which players are going where, according to J.J. Picollo, Atlanta's director of minor league operations.

"This will be the first really serious discussion," Picollo said Sunday morning. "We've talked about players individually, but now we have to begin seeing them in the context of overall rosters and what's best for their development as players."

Picollo said the staff hopes to let the players know their fates Thursday in anticipation of breaking camp Saturday.

Cubans arrive

The two Cuban players delayed by visa problems arrived in time to work out Sunday morning, so it appears unlikely either will begin the season with the Myrtle Beach Pelicans.

Barbaro Canizares, a 26-year-old outfielder/first baseman, and left-handed pitcher Francisley Bueno, 25, got to meet their new teammates and the minor league field staff. Canizares, who took infield, was a teammate of Ardley Jansen in the Nicaraguan Winter League.

"He's a very powerful hitter, a very good hitter" Jansen said of the 6-foot-2, 220 pound converted catcher. "He played mostly outfield this winter."


http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/mld/myrtlebeachonline/14195640.htm

[FlashGordon]

I thought the big problem with defecting was that these guys would get easier asylum in the U.S., but coming here means that they are draftable as rookies, whereas if they get asylum in a third country (usually the DR or Mexico) then they can play the free agent market. The trouble with the second option, as we can see in the recent examples, is that the visa issues become very murky.

[Agente Libre]

Exactly right. Right now, defectors are faced with two bad choices.

[cuban_aficionado]

I hope future Cuban defectors read this thread somehow or baseball agents get the word out that the place to go is Honduras when you leave Cuba. Honduras , not Mexico or Dominican Republic, has one of the friendliest Cuban Political Asylum Laws and that will help tremendously when ball players arrive to ask for residence as a political refugees.

Once they get their residence in Honduras they can get Visas to come to the USA as free agents.

Again, this is a better route than trying to obtain residency status in the D.R or Mexico.

[Agente Libre]

That was good advice last year, but as of March 1, 2006, Honduras is no longer granting asylum to Cubans.

Now that Honduras is saying "no," I am not aware of a single country in the hemisphere, other than U.S., that is granting papers to Cubans right now. If anyone knows otherwise, please feel free to correct me. I'd love to be wrong.

[FlashGordon]

I can understand that older players might not have much time left in their careers, but I still find it hard to understand why a defector would rather take the hard road to asylum and MLB by going to another country than the U.S. I also understand that the laws of a number of countries regarding asylum states that if a person touches down in another country, they are obligated to ask for asylum there first, but I'm not sure that's the problem here. Even as rookies, these guys would earn a boatload more in a few years than the average asylum seeker could earn in 10. Not a bad way to start a new life. Why, then, jump through extra hoops and create uncertainty for yourself by going the FA route? Besides, most of the players coming out of Cuba haven't been scouted yet, so it's unlikely they'll pull down a Manny Ramirez-sized contract.

I just don't think it's worth the trouble if freedom is really the main reason for defecting to begin with.

[Cubano100%]

Freedom, money and the desire to play against the best are the reason for defecting.

[FlashGordon]

Freedom, money and the desire to play against the best are the reason for defecting.I can understand that. I'm just saying that as reality sets in, I'm just not sure it would be worth the red tape trying to get asylum in Honduras, Panama, or anywhere else just for a chance for a little more money. I think that's especially true when the added risk puts the other two reasons into jeopardy.

One thing that just occurred to me (you'll have to let me know), does it make it any easy to travel in and out of Cuba if a person has official asylum in a country other than the U.S.? I think that would definitely add more weight to the decision to try for another country. The U.S. keeps changing its policies about travelling to visit family for anyone with U.S. citizenship. What is the policy on the Cuban end (for people travelling into Cuba)? Is there any added difficulty for Cubans who become U.S. citizens or have asylum in the U.S., vs. the DR or Mexico?

[FlashGordon]

I'm going to walk a tightrope here.

Just so we're all clear, the U.S. (and many other countries) will accept political refugees, but not economic refugees. In other words, even though a ballplayer might want a better income, the reason Cubans can get asylum more easily than, say a Haitian, is because the government considers the Cuban government to be a hostile, repressive regime. A ballplayer from Mexico, for instance, would not be given asylum in the U.S. because Washington doesn't consider the Mexican state to be a totalitarian regime.

What this means is that a Cuban ballplayer will get asylum in the U.S. because he is automatically considered to be politically persecuted, not because he is poor and wants a better economic situation or because he is a ballplayer. In the eyes of the INS, a Cuban is a political refugee first and a ballplayer 2nd. If that same person gets asylum in Honduras, he is no longer considered a political refugee by the INS.

[cuban_aficionado]

That was good advice last year, but as of March 1, 2006, Honduras is no longer granting asylum to Cubans.

Now that Honduras is saying "no," I am not aware of a single country in the hemisphere, other than U.S., that is granting papers to Cubans right now. If anyone knows otherwise, please feel free to correct me. I'd love to be wrong.

Is really sad to hear that Honduras changed the policy this month. Too bad, because it was much easier to get a residence there than in other places....

[Agente Libre]

Flash Gordon, et al -- What you're saying makes sense, but you need to remember that Cuban players are often at the mercy of the smugglers who got them out. No smuggler is going to bring out a player and *hope* the player gets drafted -- up to 364 days after the player defected -- in a decent round and receives enough money to pay the smuggler's fee. Hence, smugglers direct the players toward third countries in the hopes of a bigger payday.

That fact aside, MLB's policy toward Cubans is terrible. Instead of welcoming Cubans with open arms, like they do all other foreign players, they make Cubans go in the draft if they set foot in U.S. No one would ever suggest that Hideki Matsui or Ichiro should go in the draft, but MLB wants Cuban veterans like Contreras to be drafted. It's ridiculous.

[FlashGordon]

Flash Gordon, et al -- What you're saying makes sense, but you need to remember that Cuban players are often at the mercy of the smugglers who got them out. No smuggler is going to bring out a player and *hope* the player gets drafted -- up to 364 days after the player defected -- in a decent round and receives enough money to pay the smuggler's fee. Hence, smugglers direct the players toward third countries in the hopes of a bigger payday.It hadn't occurred to me that a smuggler might deliberately insist upon a 3rd country for a bigger payday. Does that also mean that they will refuse to bring someone without the money upfront who is unlikely to get signed?

That fact aside, MLB's policy toward Cubans is terrible. Instead of welcoming Cubans with open arms, like they do all other foreign players, they make Cubans go in the draft if they set foot in U.S. No one would ever suggest that Hideki Matsui or Ichiro should go in the draft, but MLB wants Cuban veterans like Contreras to be drafted. It's ridiculous.I would consider the policy somewhat unfair, but terrible is stretching it. It's not as though they are barred from playing baseball or that they are immediately repatriated. There are much more terrible things in life than entering the MLB draft soon after entering the U.S., but I agree that the policy lacks consistency.

[Agente Libre]

Flash -- Yes, for 99% of Cubans (ballplayers or otherwise), the smugglers must be paid in advance.

As for MLB's policy, I think "terrible" fits. You might not think the draft is that big of a deal, but:

-- Cuban players, who leave Cuba with negative net worth, are forced to wait up to 364 days before beginning their baseball career. If a player defects the day after the draft, he must wait 364 days to start his career;

-- Cubans are forced into the draft with 18 to 21-year-olds even though the vast majority of defectors have no place to play other than an independent league for a couple weeks in May (most defectors are beyond college age). Even if they are college age, who is supposed to pay the costs? An agent can't do it or the player is ineligible;

-- For a player like Jose Contreras, the draft could have resulted in a loss of about $28 million dollars and prevented him from EVER attaining free agent rights.

Saying Cubans aren't "repatriated" isn't much of a mitigating factor given that no other players face that prospect. This country is chock full of players from D.R., Venezuela, Mexico, Panama, etc., who were released and never went home.

[Cubano100%]

The Cuban Import


http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2005/02/17/magazine/20cuban.1.184.jpg




http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/20/magazine/20CUBAN.html?pagewanted=1&ei=5090&en=0df9c2569206f6aa&ex=1266642000&partner=rssuserland

[FlashGordon]

Flash -- Yes, for 99% of Cubans (ballplayers or otherwise), the smugglers must be paid in advance.

As for MLB's policy, I think "terrible" fits. You might not think the draft is that big of a deal, but:

-- Cuban players, who leave Cuba with negative net worth, are forced to wait up to 364 days before beginning their baseball career. If a player defects the day after the draft, he must wait 364 days to start his career;

-- Cubans are forced into the draft with 18 to 21-year-olds even though the vast majority of defectors have no place to play other than an independent league for a couple weeks in May (most defectors are beyond college age). Even if they are college age, who is supposed to pay the costs? An agent can't do it or the player is ineligible;

-- For a player like Jose Contreras, the draft could have resulted in a loss of about $28 million dollars and prevented him from EVER attaining free agent rights.

Saying Cubans aren't "repatriated" isn't much of a mitigating factor given that no other players face that prospect. This country is chock full of players from D.R., Venezuela, Mexico, Panama, etc., who were released and never went home.I understand your points, however, if Jose Contreras didn't play baseball at all, much less draw interest from scouting agents, his net value would still be $0.00. My point is that, among refugees, Cubans have it pretty good, even if they have to face "the horror" of the draft. I just think a little perspective is in order here. I know plenty of non-citizens who don't even have the right to work in the open job market. A drafted ballplayer will still have a better situation than a working disabled refugee without family here to help them.

[cuban_aficionado]

CONTRERAS JUST SIGNED THE DOTTED LINE FOR $29 MILLION DOLLARS IN THE NEXT THREE YEARS.

HE IS GETTING $8 MILLION FROM HIS CURRENT CONTRACT THIS YEAR ($32 million, four-year contract he signed with the Yankees following his defection from Cuba in October 2002) .

SO CONTRERAS STOCK IS GOING UP, UP, UP MY FELLOW AMERICANS!!!!!

AFTER THE COOL $8 MILL THIS YEAR, CONTRERAS WILL BE PAID $9 MILL in 2007, $10 MILLIONS IN 2008 and $10 MILL IN 2009.


NOT BAD FOR A FORMER CUBAN TEAM STARTING PITCHER BORN IN LAS MARTINAS, PINAR DEL RIO PROVINCE.!!!!!!:clapping :clapping :clapping

NOW, PLEASE, CAN WE GET MORE CUBAN PITCHERS IN THE MAYOR LEAGUES???

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-whitesox-contreras&prov=ap&type=lgns

[Cubano100%]

I understand your points, however, if Jose Contreras didn't play baseball at all, much less draw interest from scouting agents, his net value would still be $0.00. My point is that, among refugees, Cubans have it pretty good, even if they have to face "the horror" of the draft. I just think a little perspective is in order here. I know plenty of non-citizens who don't even have the right to work in the open job market. A drafted ballplayer will still have a better situation than a working disabled refugee without family here to help them.


Come on Flash!


The issue here is why are Cuban ball players treated differently by MLB?

Why do playes from Japan, Dominican R. and Venezuelan are declared free agents and Cubans do not?

Cubans go to the Draft and if they are not selected because age or whatever reason then earn pennies in the Indy leagues.

If someone sign them, then they are property of that team for 6 years. By the time they become free agents, they will be in retirement mood.

Is that right Agente Libre?

[Agente Libre]

That's right.

Saying Cubans "have it good" compared to most other refugees is a rather strange argument. I'm not aware of too many refugees from Mexico, Panama, the D.R., etc. (There might, of course, be some refugees from Venezuela soon.)

If that's the standard, then why not put millionnaire Japanese players in the draft and let Cubans be free agents?

Why not put Dominicans, who live at home with Mom and Dad and can get seen by scouts every day of their lives, in the draft instead of Cubans?

Why give free agency to Japanese after ONE year while simultaneously trying to force Cubans to wait up to 13 years? (Up to 7 years in minors plus 6 years in majors.)

[Cubano100%]

Where is the baseball union on this issue?

[Agente Libre]

Out to lunch. They tend to worry mostly about current major leaguers. The fact the Cuban defector market is dominated by scumbags probably doesn't help, either. Cubans haven't been real discriminating lately in who they have chosen as their representatives.

[Cubano100%]

What do you think about Contreras new contract?

I thought he would have opted for free agency.

[Agente Libre]

Looks like a good deal. At Contreras' age and with his history in Cuba, it seemed risky to wait a year for free agency. Looks like a fair deal for both sides, assuming he stays healthy and consistent.

Apparently, the White Sox told him yesterday was the deadline for signing the deal and he said yes. I guess the offer had been on the table for a while.

[Cubano100%]

What history in Cuba?

[FlashGordon]

Saying Cubans "have it good" compared to most other refugees is a rather strange argument. I'm not aware of too many refugees from Mexico, Panama, the D.R., etc. (There might, of course, be some refugees from Venezuela soon.)You're right, there aren't refugees from those countries. There are refugees from numerous African and Asian countries, however. None of these countries is likely to produce individuals with realistic baseball aspirations, either. You must first separate the political from the baseball and acknowledge that the Cubans get a much more streamlined asylum process than refugees from other countries seeking asylum in the U.S. That's the political side of things.

Moving toward baseball you are dealing with another set of issues. The crazy discrepency between the draftability of a Cuban who has asylum in the U.S. vs. asylum in another country, as I have said in large text even, is unfair. The only thing I can imagine is that there are a different set of labor laws that apply to someone who could be sent back to a different country where they have asylum, vs. in the U.S. But once again, a Cuban baseball player would have a huge advantage over, say a North Korean, who gains asylum in a place like Honduras. There's no way they'd even make it over the border into the U.S.

In a nutshell, I see a lot of "poor me" crybaby B.S. that is really more about making a million-dollar salary than it is about gaining safety and security in a country that is inclined to grant asylum. If it's all about the Benjamins, then I have very little sympathy. If you want to argue from a position of equal treatment among aliens granted the opportunity to compete in the U.S. labor market, I'll be glad to hear it. But realize that once you start messing with the draft system and who is draftable vs. who isn't, you are starting to mess with the kind of issues that lead to lock-outs. What's more, it is very possible that the shift could go the other way and MLB could decide that the way to achieve consistency is to treat all Cubans whose only experience has been in the Cuban league as draftable material. Again, I'm not saying I think it's the answer, but it might be the answer that Selig and crew go with.

By all means, fight the system, but also admit that there are many advantages a ballplayer from Cuba has, even entering into the draft. I just once want to hear either one of you agree that the conditions for a Cuban ballplayer who gains status as a refugee in the U.S. is far and away better than if they'd never arrived in the U.S. at all and in general better than for the average Cuban who is not a professional athlete.

[Cubano100%]

Anything is better than Cuba or any other Communist country!

[FlashGordon]

I think there is an ambiguity in the question at hand that is interfering with your ability to understand my response. If you want to ask why Cubans who come to the U.S. get treated different than those who establish residency elsewhere, I can tell you the rationale provided by MLB. Quoting an article from the time José Contreras arrived in the U.S. (you can find the entire article at ESPN.com (http://espn.go.com/mlb/s/2002/1110/1458871.html)):

"If Contreras is a U.S. resident, he will be subject to the draft just as would be the case if a Dominican player came to the U.S. and established residency here before he signed a professional contract, as was the case with Moises Alou and many other Dominican players," said Frank Coonelly, baseball's chief counsel.

Now if you want to ask how it is justified that Cubans are treated differently, the answer is simple.

They aren't.

They only have a more difficult position from which to negotiate before entering the U.S.

The commissioner's office argues that the U.S. embargo against Cuba prevents the league from allowing Cuban defectors who live in the U.S. from being treated as free agents. The U.S. embargo prohibits Americans from doing business with Cuba, with the goal of cutting off the flow of funds to the communist government.

The problem is that a Japanese or Dominican player has more flexibility to negotiate for a contract before coming to the U.S. Obviously, a Cuban player is less able to contact scouts or agents while on Cuban soil. Once they hit U.S. soil and request asylum (an easier route to U.S. residency than a Dominican--any Dominican--would have to finding residency in the U.S.), they are considered draftable.

If you want Cubans to be able to negotiate for contracts before arriving, you'd have to lobby the U.S. Congress to lift the embargo against Cuba. The problem is that if you lift the embargo, you are endangering the chances for future defectors to gain asylum. There is no easy fix, unless you are not looking for equal treatment, but rather special treatment. I have a funny feeling that asking for special treatment will enrage other players who established residency in the U.S. before signing a contract, including U.S. citizens who must enter the draft before gaining free agency.

The Cuban defectors already have special treatment, because they can defect and gain instant residency, which is more than a Mexican player can get. In fact, most young talent entering this country stands a better chance by working their way through the draft system than trying to negotiate cold on the FA market. Players like Ichiro don't even need to come to the U.S.; MLB sought them out. Cuban players are often unknown quantities and only the superstars (what few there are) can hope to do well in free agency. But, by law and MLB policy, if they establish residency in the U.S. first, even those players are treated as draftable rookies. That's just consistency.

[FlashGordon]

Anything is better than Cuba or any other Communist country!Then why not stay in the D.R. or Mexico or anywhere else once you've gained residency? The fact is that it is a lot better here in the U.S., even for someone subjected to the "terrible" process of the FA draft.

[Cubano100%]

Then why not stay in the D.R. or Mexico or anywhere else once you've gained residency? The fact is that it is a lot better here in the U.S., even for someone subjected to the "terrible" process of the FA draft.


So you agree with me then. Of course nothing compare to the USA. That is why 90 % of the people in this world want to come here.

Not all players request asylum and if they choose to establish residency in the U.S., this process does not occur instantly.

So they are Cubans during all this time until they can apply for residency. They should be able to negociate a contract during this time. Once they become resident, then you can send them to the draft.

If they commit a crime before or even after they gain residency, where are they going to be deported?

Cubans generally do not complaint about the USA. Actually, we love it here. We look forward to be part of the melting pot.

[FlashGordon]

So you agree with me then. Of course nothing compare to the USA. That is why 90 % of the people in this world want to come here.I suppose that depends upon what you want me to agree with. I agree that life in the U.S. is, on the whole, much better than life in Cuba. I don't necessarily agree that 90% of the world's population wants to come here, but a lot certainly do.
Not all players request asylum and if they choose to establish residency in the U.S., this process does not occur instantly. You're right, it isn't instantaneous. But compared to the process a person coming from Haiti would have to go through, it is a much easier one.
So they are Cubans during all this time until they can apply for residency. They should be able to negociate a contract during this time. Once they become resident, then you can send them to the draft.That's an idealistic expectation. Obviously if the player could be drafted, there's a good possibility that no one will negotiate a FA-structured contract. Also, there are work visa issues that won't be settled until the immigration status is settled. By the way, I do believe that the MLB owners use this legal situation to their benefit and have no desire to change it. I wouldn't put it past them to work in collusion, collectively refusing to negotiate with anyone whose immigration status could become one that makes them draft material.
If they commit a crime before or even after they gain residency, where are they going to be deported?I would imagine it would be determined by the nature of the crime and if that person has residency in another country. I doubt they would deport a Cuban to Cuba, mainly because the U.S. (as do many other countries) refuse to repatriate someone to a country where they would face persecution. There are a number of cases that have come to light in the past couple years of people who have residency in the U.S., are convicted of a felony, and have to be held indefinitely because there is no where to send them. Again, I don't endorse the practice, but it certainly happens. But then we digress; this has nothing directly to do with baseball.
Cubans generally do not complaint about the USA. Actually, we love it here. We look forward to be part of the melting pot.That has generally been my impression of Cubans in the U.S.: that they are eager to become part of this country. As I've said before, I'm proud that my country allows Cuban refugees to stay. I would be much prouder if we treated more immigrant groups so generously. I'm very curious to see if the Guest Worker program gets passed, especially for Mexicans. That could also have some interesting consequences for baseball.

[Cubano100%]

Other countries can work on having a Communist system so they can be treated like Cubans are today. Not only Cubans but other people have been treated the same way if they have come from Communist countries. Before 1959, Cuban immigration to the USA was very small.

As for your Mexican argument, I hope Mexicans remember to treat with decency other immigrants when they arrive in Mexico from Central and South America. In fact, their track record is just the opposite. Most of these immigrants want to come to the USA just like the Mexicans do. Maybe you have some work to do to persuade the Mexican authorities to be kind to other immingrants the same way you do here in America.


Have a good day and please let's talk about Cuban defectors in here.

If you want to open a Thread to write about Immigration and Guest Worker program go ahead. You seem to comeback to same agenda over and over again.


I have no desire to discuss Guest Worker Program in this Thread. Aren't you a moderator?

[Agente Libre]

Cubano100% -- When I said "history in Cuba," I was referring to Contreras' heavy workload down there. Like Duque and a bunch of others before him, Contreras' right arm likely has more mileage on it than most other pitchers of the same age. Factoring in international play, the Select Series, the Super Liga, etc., Contreras has been pitching year-round for well over a decade. His off-seasons in U.S. have been the first of his long career.

[Agente Libre]

Flash -- I find it borderline impossible to even debate with you since you move the goalposts with just about every post.

If the main thrust of your argument is that it's better in U.S. than it is in Cuba and Cubans should, thus, just put up with whatever restrictions are thrust upon them, then that is a rather spurious argument.

Allowing your emotions to rule your logic is also problematic, e.g., your comments that "if it's just about the Benjamins, I have no sympathy." If that's the case, why aren't you clamoring for millionnaire Asian players to be draftable? Why are you not opposed to Asian players receiving MLB free agency after as little as one year when even American players need to wait 6 years or more?

The simple fact is, MLB loves Asians because every time an Asian player comes to MLB they sell millions of dollars in jerseys, hats, etc., and MLB's Asian TV ratings increase. With Cubans, MLB makes no new money, so they treat them like a cheap labor source, like they've been doing with other Latins for well over 50 years.

If you have no problem with that, then that's certainly your right. But in a specific discussion about equality of treatment in MLB -- not about Cubans in general, or U.S. immigration policy, etc., etc. -- then it's as plain as day that Cubans are getting shafted.

[Cubano100%]

In another forum, a Cuban in the D.R. wrote that Juan Miranda had 4 home runs in a game last year. He apparently did very well.

As for Ayalen Ortiz, he impressed the scouts for his size and strenght.

The Cuban guy also wrote that Yamel Guevara is healthy again.

Who knows for sure but at least the guy lives in D.R.

Hopefully, all can come to the USA soon and start playing meaningfull baseball.

[Agente Libre]

I hope he's right but I doubt all of it. Miranda and Ortiz have been available for over a year and Guevara has been out since Oct. 2004. Hard to believe good prospects would be unsigned for all this time.

[FlashGordon]

Flash -- I find it borderline impossible to even debate with you since you move the goalposts with just about every post.

If the main thrust of your argument is that it's better in U.S. than it is in Cuba and Cubans should, thus, just put up with whatever restrictions are thrust upon them, then that is a rather spurious argument.

It takes two, my friend. The problem is that you are either looking for full condemnation or full endorsement of your position. My points have been the following:

Cubans who defect to the U.S. are treated like everyone else who gains residency before sealing a major league contract.
Cubans who come to the U.S. for asylum have an easier time gaining residency than just about any other immigrant group.
Cubans who complain that they have to go to a third country to score a big contract and thus are treated unfairly have a very skewed sense of the benefits of U.S. asylum laws, focusing instead on the conditions of the labor practices of MLB.
Cubans are free to work toward changing the MLB policies regarding the negotiation of contracts, but should be prepared to lose that battle.
Asking to come into this country as an asylum seeker and then to be allowed to register as a FA is not asking for equal treatment; it's asking for special treatment.
If you want the easiest solution to changing the conditions by which Cubans can negotiate for contracts, then activating the Cuban American population to lift the embargo is the simplest solution, but that begets other problems.
Finally, to reinforce what I said before, the U.S. gives Cubans preferential treatment by allowing them to stay as asylum seekers, to then turn around and bite the hand that feeds you by arguing that someone like Contreras can't become an instant millionaire isn't going to win any support for the cause to change the labor laws in this country.


Allowing your emotions to rule your logic is also problematic, e.g., your comments that "if it's just about the Benjamins, I have no sympathy." If that's the case, why aren't you clamoring for millionnaire Asian players to be draftable? Why are you not opposed to Asian players receiving MLB free agency after as little as one year when even American players need to wait 6 years or more?Distinguish, please, between my logic and the U.S. government's and MLB's. Whether or not I have any sympathy is irrelevant to the labor laws of this country and the way MLB carries them out. If Jose Contreras had any way to negotiate a contract before arriving in the U.S. and establishing residency, this point would be moot. The embargo prevents any American citizen or business from sealing any agreements that could result in money flowing into Cuba. Lift the embargo, solve the problem. The problem is that Cuban nationals in the U.S. want to maintain the embargo, but then not have to live with the consequences it brings. If that isn't moving the goalposts, I don't know what is.

What's more, even working within the limitations of the laws on the books, a Cuban national who becomes a ballplayer can do very well for himself. If you are going to argue about changing the laws, please don't use a 7-figure salary as a reason. A good friend of mine from Cuba has a whole family to take care of and is trying to do so on a student's salary. When I hear Cubans arguing about how they (as a people) are being unfairly treated because a ballplayer must jump through the hoop of the draft, it makes me want to spit nails.
The simple fact is, MLB loves Asians because every time an Asian player comes to MLB they sell millions of dollars in jerseys, hats, etc., and MLB's Asian TV ratings increase. With Cubans, MLB makes no new money, so they treat them like a cheap labor source, like they've been doing with other Latins for well over 50 years.Edit: Comment added 4/3/06, 21:04 EST: Are you insinuating that MLB is racist for its treatment of Latinos, then using a racist smear of your own to suggest favoritism of Asian players?

Now who's using spurious logic to make an emotionally driven point? The problem is that an Asian player like Ichiro can draw enough attention that he can negotiate a salary and a contract before gaining residency. As a result, his work status is different from that of a defector. Any foreign national who enters into a labor agreement with a U.S.-based company has a different work visa that allows them to stay with a different immigration status than a defector might. A buddy of mine from Chile has to make the shift from a student visa to a work visa; that changes his tax status and also changes the requirements for his residency. If he had come here without acceptance to a grad program or without an offer for a job already on the table, he would have been sent back as soon as his tourist visa ran out. A Cuban who claims asylum doesn't have that problem.

If you have no problem with that, then that's certainly your right. But in a specific discussion about equality of treatment in MLB -- not about Cubans in general, or U.S. immigration policy, etc., etc. -- then it's as plain as day that Cubans are getting shafted.I still don't agree that shafted is the way to look at this. If they are being shafted, then it is the forces keeping the embargo in place that are doing the shafting. The minors are full of Asian players as well as Latinos of every stripe who went through the draft. The problem is that seasoned players in Cuba don't have the ability to land a contract before defecting. Meanwhile, there are plenty of other immigrant groups who would love a shot at gaining residency through asylum, even if they get treated as the equivalent of a recent college grad entering the baseball draft.

[FlashGordon]

One last little nugget to consider:

Assume, for a moment, that MLB changes its draft policy to permit a Cuban with at least 10 years experience in the Cuban national league to negotiate as a FA. Such a move would be somewhat on par with the current 5/10 rule for U.S. players.

Do you really think Castro would allow any players to accrue enough play time to qualify? Do you think he would allow anyone to become a superstar? Wouldn't rewarding those players who managed to get that much playing time in under Castro's watchful eye be, in effect, rewarding Castro's pets?

[Cubano100%]

[QUOTE=FlashGordon] The problem is that Cuban nationals in the U.S. want to maintain the embargo, but then not have to live with the consequences it brings. If that isn't moving the goalposts, I don't know what is.



How can you speak for all Cuban Americans? Are you one of us? You are missing the word some.

[Agente Libre]

Flash -- First of all, I'm not asking for a full endorsement of anything. All I've done is point out that Cubans face the toughest restrictions of any class or nationality of (potential) MLB players, and it seems like a rather odd policy for a league claiming to want to attract the world's best players.

Second, about 90% of your last 2 posts are based on flawed knowledge of immigration and labor law.

Third, contrary to your belief, Cubans who arrive as refugees are not "residents" until at least 366 days after their arrival in U.S. If they are not "residents" for U.S. immigration and labor law purposes, then it seems rather odd for MLB to consider them "residents" for draft purposes.

Fourth, lifting the embargo is not the panacea you claim it would be. We have no embargo on Japan or Mexico or Korea, but players from those countries cannot freely come to the U.S. to play MLB. We could lift the embargo on Cuba tomorrow and Castro would likely institute a Mexican, Japanese or Korean-style reserve system for his players.

Fifth, Cubans arrive here as refugees simply because they have NO OTHER OPTION. Unlike Ichiro, who marched down to the consulate and was given a U.S. visa, Cuban players are forced to defect if they choose to leave Cuba. For MLB to then use the political situation in Cuba, and resultant embargo, as its purported rationale for subjecting Cubans -- even Cubans in their late 20s and 30s -- to the draft is absurd.

Sixth, your allegation in #7 is nonsensical given that U.S. labor law has absolutely nothing to do with the MLB draft. U.S. labor law does not require Cubans to be drafted; MLB does so.

Seventh, other than a handful of Puerto Ricans who are drafted each year, I'm not aware of any Asians or Latinos who "went thru the draft." All Asians and all Latins, except those from P.R., are exempt from the draft, which is largely the basis for my argument that Cubans should likewise be exempt.

Eighth, while Ichiro was posted and is not the best example, Asians like Hideki Matsui, Kaz Matsui, etc., were able to negotiate lucrative MLB contracts because of MLB's newfound cozy relationship with Japan, a relationship driven by -- the shock! -- money. MLB makes money by signing players from Japan whereas they lose money -- strictly speaking -- when they sign Cubans, since there is no market in Cuba for MLB products, TV packages, etc.

Ninth, not sure why you would require a Cuban to achieve 10 years for free agent status. MLB players need only 6 years for FA (not 5 or 10, as you claimed) and Asians now need only 1 year of MLB.

Last but certainly not least, if I was accusing MLB of being "racist" I would have used the word myself. I don't think MLB is racist; I think they discriminate based on dollars and cents. Japanese people have money to spend on MLB products, so it's "Welcome to MLB, Mr. Matsui." Cubans have no money to spend on MLB products, so it's "Please report to the June draft, Mr. Contreras, or take a hike to a 3rd country."

[Cubano100%]

Kendry Morales receives the Fred Haney Award, for best rookie in spring training, from the Angels.

Despite a strong Spring Training, the Angels opted to send Super Kendry to AAA.:mad: :mad: :mad:

[Cubano100%]

Hey, Agente. Have you read this story before?


http://www.washtimes.com/sports/20050303-021417-1224r.htm

[FlashGordon]

Flash -- First of all, I'm not asking for a full endorsement of anything. All I've done is point out that Cubans face the toughest restrictions of any class or nationality of (potential) MLB players, and it seems like a rather odd policy for a league claiming to want to attract the world's best players.The restriction isn't based on nationality; it's based upon the MLB draft policy. You'll have to revamp the entire draft system.Second, about 90% of your last 2 posts are based on flawed knowledge of immigration and labor law.Name those elements, please.
Third, contrary to your belief, Cubans who arrive as refugees are not "residents" until at least 366 days after their arrival in U.S. If they are not "residents" for U.S. immigration and labor law purposes, then it seems rather odd for MLB to consider them "residents" for draft purposes.So in other words, they shouldn't be allowed to play for a year? I think that would cause even more problems, but okay.Fourth, lifting the embargo is not the panacea you claim it would be. We have no embargo on Japan or Mexico or Korea, but players from those countries cannot freely come to the U.S. to play MLB. We could lift the embargo on Cuba tomorrow and Castro would likely institute a Mexican, Japanese or Korean-style reserve system for his players.I said lifting the embargo would create new problems, didn't I?Fifth, Cubans arrive here as refugees simply because they have NO OTHER OPTION. Unlike Ichiro, who marched down to the consulate and was given a U.S. visa, Cuban players are forced to defect if they choose to leave Cuba. For MLB to then use the political situation in Cuba, and resultant embargo, as its purported rationale for subjecting Cubans -- even Cubans in their late 20s and 30s -- to the draft is absurd.Clearly they have the option to defect to another country. And Ichiro didn't just march down to the consulate for a work visa; his future employers did that for him.Sixth, your allegation in #7 is nonsensical given that U.S. labor law has absolutely nothing to do with the MLB draft. U.S. labor law does not require Cubans to be drafted; MLB does so.No, it doesn't require Cubans specifically be drafted. It requires that anyone who is a resident of the U.S. enter the draft unless they have been tendered a contract while residing in a foreign country and their signing team applies for their work visa as their employer. The same thing happens every time a foreign student is offered a job at a U.S. company; the company is then responsible for vouching for the future employee. The draft applies to anyone with U.S. residency seeking employment. That's why Moises Alou, a domincan national, was drafted. So was Manny Ramirez.

The difference for Koreans, however, is that Korean men are not allowed to leave the country at will because all men are considered reserve troops. So they must play in the Korean leagues. While they are there, they can be scouted and wined and dined by MLB representatives. Once they have a contract in hand, they are granted permission by their government to leave.Seventh, other than a handful of Puerto Ricans who are drafted each year, I'm not aware of any Asians or Latinos who "went thru the draft." All Asians and all Latins, except those from P.R., are exempt from the draft, which is largely the basis for my argument that Cubans should likewise be exempt.Puerto Ricans are more than a handful. They are American citizens by birth and must go through the draft like any other American citizen wishing to play baseball. In addition to Moises Alou and Manny Ramirez, there are countless foreign nationals who come to this country as children or students, who never take American citizenship and enter the baseball draft. Manny just became a citizen within the last few years.Eighth, while Ichiro was posted and is not the best example, Asians like Hideki Matsui, Kaz Matsui, etc., were able to negotiate lucrative MLB contracts because of MLB's newfound cozy relationship with Japan, a relationship driven by -- the shock! -- money. MLB makes money by signing players from Japan whereas they lose money -- strictly speaking -- when they sign Cubans, since there is no market in Cuba for MLB products, TV packages, etc.Ichiro is the perfect example. He was sought out, offered a job, and was extended a work visa to come here. That is what happens when a Cuban who gains residency in another country applies for free agency. The Cubans who come straight here haven't got an opportunity to negotiate and be tendered a contract before gaining residency and are treated like anyone else who walks in off the street looking to join MLB.Ninth, not sure why you would require a Cuban to achieve 10 years for free agent status. MLB players need only 6 years for FA (not 5 or 10, as you claimed) and Asians now need only 1 year of MLB.I didn't say I would require it, I just used it as a hypothetical example. If you don't like the example, fine with me.Last but certainly not least, if I was accusing MLB of being "racist" I would have used the word myself. I don't think MLB is racist; I think they discriminate based on dollars and cents. Japanese people have money to spend on MLB products, so it's "Welcome to MLB, Mr. Matsui." Cubans have no money to spend on MLB products, so it's "Please report to the June draft, Mr. Contreras, or take a hike to a 3rd country."That's not discrimination, that's capitalism. Regardless of whether or not MLB can sell trinkets to Cuban nationals (that embargo again), the owners of any MLB team reserve the right to negotiate what they want with whom they want. If they really undervalued Cuban players as a whole, why can those who gain asylum in another country EVER be allowed to file for free agency.

And just as an aside, I've stated again and again that the MLB policy is flawed, unfair, could stand to change, etc. I don't even consider myself to be a good little Yankee capitalist and you are hitting upon the very reasons why. You keep wanting to ascribe MLB policy, U.S. economic and immigration policy, and the practices of capitalism to me. All I'm doing is explaining why things are they way they are; you assume that means endorsement. My contention however, as it has always been, is that describing the way Cuban baseball players become integrated into MLB as some monstrous abuse of the Cuban people lacks perspective. Just like your posts.

[FlashGordon]

How can you speak for all Cuban Americans? Are you one of us? You are missing the word some.If you know of any group of Cuban-Americans actively lobbying to lift the embargo against Cuba, please let me know. I for one would love to know about it and would really like to see them pose real opposition to the vocal majority of Cuban-Americans that do.

[Agente Libre]

There are Cuban-Americans opposed to the embargo. Mostly second or third-generation Cuban-Americans who were born in U.S. or recent arrivals from Cuba who haven't figured out the economics yet.

That said, you anti-embargo types are naive. If you really think a bunch of fat American tourists drinking mojitos and smoking cigars on the tourists-only beaches and staying at the tourists-only hotels will somehow spread freedom to the Cuban masses, you need a few history lessons. Cuba is already "trading" with the entire rest of the world, and that hasn't done a damn thing for the average Cuban.

[FlashGordon]

Third, contrary to your belief, Cubans who arrive as refugees are not "residents" until at least 366 days after their arrival in U.S. If they are not "residents" for U.S. immigration and labor law purposes, then it seems rather odd for MLB to consider them "residents" for draft purposes.
I just wanted to address this one further. You are right that Cubans are not lawful permanent residents once they are granted asylum and that they must be here a full year to have that. However:What Will Be My Status After I Am Granted Asylum?
You will have asylee status. You will receive an I-94 Arrival and Departure record documenting that you are able to remain indefinitely in the United States as an asylee. You will be authorized to work in the United States for as long as you remain in asylee status. You may obtain a photo-identity document from USCIS evidencing your employment authorization by applying for an Employment Authorization Document (EAD). You will also be able to request derivative asylum status for any spouse or child (unmarried and under 21 years of age as of the date you filed the asylum application, as long as your asylum application was pending on or after August 6, 2002) who was not included as a dependent in your asylum decision and with whom you have a qualifying relationship. This means that you will be able to petition to bring your spouse and/or children to the United States, or allow them to remain in the United States indefinitely incident to your asylee status.
(from the U.S. Gov. web page: http://uscis.gov/graphics/services/asylum/faq.htm#dec3)

In other words, as soon as asylum is granted, an asylee (ballplayer or not) has more freedom to work in this country than someone on a student or tourist visa. They are given temporary residency until one year has elapsed. Then it becomes permanent.

[FlashGordon]

That said, you anti-embargo types are naive. If you really think a bunch of fat American tourists drinking mojitos and smoking cigars on the tourists-only beaches and staying at the tourists-only hotels will somehow spread freedom to the Cuban masses, you need a few history lessons. Cuba is already "trading" with the entire rest of the world, and that hasn't done a damn thing for the average Cuban.You don't seem to have very much faith in the ability of the American business community to overwhelm Castro and Co. If tourist dollars were the only thing to flow into Cuba I'd agree with you, but I tend to think the internal pressures that would be created by the sudden influx of consumer goods and a whole new world of potential jobs needed to generate the income to purchase such goods would do much more to knock off Castro than the embargo has. But that's my opinion.

But please remember, this is Baseball-Fever. If you can't relate this back to baseball, then you are just soap-boxing and sniping. Lifting the travel ban for American citizens would also mean that baseball scouts would get a chance to scout players and dangle contracts in front of their faces in a way they can't now. That might be good for Cuban ballplayers, but ultimately it wouldn't be good for the average Cuban looking to come to the U.S. because it would also probably mean revisiting the asylum laws as they apply to Cuban defectors.

[Agente Libre]

The restriction isn't based on nationality; it's based upon the MLB draft policy. You'll have to revamp the entire draft system.

Not really. MLB could simply exempt Cuban refugees from the draft. All it would take is a one-sentence memo from the Commissioner.

(By the way, it's largely unknown but the Justice Dept. found MLB to be in violation of federal law with respect to its treatment of Cubans back in 1991 or 1992. The current arrangement was a hastily-arranged compromise that allowed Rene Arocha's career to get started, but it's still, by no means, 100% legal if federal immigration and labor laws are strictly applied. No player, however, has wanted to wait several years for the issue to be fully litigated.)

Name those elements, please.

I did, at least in part. You have made misstatements about Cubans' immigration status and work status, and have also intertwined labor law with MLB rules.

So in other words, they shouldn't be allowed to play for a year? I think that would cause even more problems, but okay.

No, I'm saying that if Cubans are not residents under U.S. law until at least 366 days after arrival in U.S., then that logically makes such Cubans "foreigners" for draft purposes. Seems odd a Cuban can be a "foreigner" under federal law -- the laws MLB claims to be constrained by -- while they are "residents" for draft purposes.

Clearly they have the option to defect to another country. And Ichiro didn't just march down to the consulate for a work visa; his future employers did that for him.

Uh, no, to both statements. Cubans end up wherever they end up. It's not like you or I heading to the airport and choosing from 100 destinations. As for Ichiro, and every other foreign player, teams simply request visas. It's up to the players to actually go get them.

No, it doesn't require Cubans specifically be drafted. It requires that anyone who is a resident of the U.S. enter the draft unless they have been tendered a contract while residing in a foreign country and their signing team applies for their work visa as their employer.

Right, except that (1) Cubans aren't "residents" at all until 366 days after arrival and (2) Cubans outside Cuba are no longer subject to the embargo, so MLB has no reason to claim the embargo as a defense (as it always does; see the 2001 Viera case).

The draft applies to anyone with U.S. residency seeking employment. That's why Moises Alou, a domincan national, was drafted. So was Manny Ramirez.

Much different cases. Those players actually WERE U.S. residents as the law defines it. Ramirez had been living in U.S. most (if not all) of his life; ditto for Alou. Both were also at U.S. schools when drafted.

The difference for Koreans, however, is that Korean men are not allowed to leave the country at will because all men are considered reserve troops. So they must play in the Korean leagues. While they are there, they can be scouted and wined and dined by MLB representatives. Once they have a contract in hand, they are granted permission by their government to leave.

Koreans are constrained by the Korean Baseball Federation, not by the military service requirement. If an MLB team found some kid throwing 98, I'm sure they'd be happy to wait the 27 months while he's in the military (if his service isn't deferred or waived while he's playing, as is now common).

Puerto Ricans are more than a handful. They are American citizens by birth and must go through the draft like any other American citizen wishing to play baseball. In addition to Moises Alou and Manny Ramirez, there are countless foreign nationals who come to this country as children or students, who never take American citizenship and enter the baseball draft. Manny just became a citizen within the last few years.

Right, but only a handful of P.R. players are drafted each year. That's all I meant by the "handful" comment.

As for there being a "countless" number of foreigners drafted each year, I'd bet there weren't even five in last year's draft.

Ichiro is the perfect example. He was sought out, offered a job, and was extended a work visa to come here. That is what happens when a Cuban who gains residency in another country applies for free agency. The Cubans who come straight here haven't got an opportunity to negotiate and be tendered a contract before gaining residency and are treated like anyone else who walks in off the street looking to join MLB.

See, this is where you're wrong again. Cubans aren't U.S. residents for at least 366 days after arrival; a period of time in which the U.S. gov't considers them foreigners and during which any Cuban would have more than enough time to hold workouts and sign a contract.

That's not discrimination, that's capitalism. Regardless of whether or not MLB can sell trinkets to Cuban nationals (that embargo again), the owners of any MLB team reserve the right to negotiate what they want with whom they want. If they really undervalued Cuban players as a whole, why can those who gain asylum in another country EVER be allowed to file for free agency.

Given Fidel's mismanagement of the Cuban economy for the last 40 years, something tells me it's more than the embargo that's keeping the average Cuban from being able to afford $140 El Duque jerseys. (We're talking about a guy who received tens of billions from the Soviets while simultaneously ruining every industry in the country. Cuba even has to import SUGAR these days. How absurd is that?)

Anyway, in regards to your last sentence above, MLB is not cavalier enough to try to make every Cuban defector draft-eligible, especially those on foreign soil. There would simply be no way to do it that would be remotely justifiable from a legal standpoint. (Keep in mind, a lot of legal experts believe the entire MLB draft could be overturned via a court challenge, but no player has challenged it (yet).)

And just as an aside, I've stated again and again that the MLB policy is flawed, unfair, could stand to change, etc. I don't even consider myself to be a good little Yankee capitalist and you are hitting upon the very reasons why. You keep wanting to ascribe MLB policy, U.S. economic and immigration policy, and the practices of capitalism to me. All I'm doing is explaining why things are they way they are; you assume that means endorsement. My contention however, as it has always been, is that describing the way Cuban baseball players become integrated into MLB as some monstrous abuse of the Cuban people lacks perspective. Just like your posts.

I'm not sure I followed anything you said here. I also do not recall describing MLB's policy as a "monstrous abuse of the Cuban people." I've said Cuban players are getting shafted, and if you limit the discussion to baseball, then that's an accurate statement. You're the one who expanded the discussion by comparing Cuban baseball defectors to Haitian rafters and the like, which is a rather odd way of conducting an argument.

In closing, you endorsed the Guest Worker program a few days ago. Do you believe these workers should be immediately free to work at the job and at the salary of their choosing/negotiation, or should they be forced to wait up to 364 days before being drafted by a Holiday Inn in Iowa or a farm in Nebraska? Your argument is so disjointed you are advocating -- if not demanding -- better labor rights for ILLEGAL ALIENS than you are for Cubans who are in the country legally. Not sure I grasp the logic of that.

[Agente Libre]

In other words, as soon as asylum is granted, an asylee (ballplayer or not) has more freedom to work in this country than someone on a student or tourist visa. They are given temporary residency until one year has elapsed. Then it becomes permanent.

Most Cubans are paroled into the country as refugees, not as asylees. It appears you quoted the wrong federal statute, or at least one that is rarely applicable to Cubans.

That fact aside, your "in other words" statement is 100% false. First of all, why would people on student or tourist visas have any expectation of work rights whatsoever? That makes no sense.

Second, asylees are not considered "temporary residents." That might be your interpretation of it, but it's not their status from a legal standpoint. Regardless, asylees are allowed to work for two common sense reasons: So they can eat, and so the U.S. gov't doesn't have to support them for months or years while their applications are pending. (Otherwise, every tourist could apply for asylum and collect checks from Uncle Sam until they decide, or are forced, to return home.)

[Agente Libre]

You don't seem to have very much faith in the ability of the American business community to overwhelm Castro and Co. If tourist dollars were the only thing to flow into Cuba I'd agree with you, but I tend to think the internal pressures that would be created by the sudden influx of consumer goods and a whole new world of potential jobs needed to generate the income to purchase such goods would do much more to knock off Castro than the embargo has. But that's my opinion.

Right, except that Cuba is already trading with the entire rest of the world, and there has been no such influx of freedom, jobs, consumer goods, etc.

But please remember, this is Baseball-Fever. If you can't relate this back to baseball, then you are just soap-boxing and sniping.

You're joking, right? You're the one who took us down the "Cubans are treated better than Haitians" and "if only the embargo were lifted" paths.

Lifting the travel ban for American citizens would also mean that baseball scouts would get a chance to scout players and dangle contracts in front of their faces in a way they can't now. That might be good for Cuban ballplayers, but ultimately it wouldn't be good for the average Cuban looking to come to the U.S. because it would also probably mean revisiting the asylum laws as they apply to Cuban defectors.

Yes and no. Lifting the embargo would assuredly, if not automatically, end some of the refugee rights extended to Cubans. But with practically every Cuban having a relative or friend in the U.S., I'm sure many would qualify for visas under the existing visa regime. Hell, there might even be a (net) reverse migration back to Cuba from So. Fla.

[Agente Libre]

Hey, Agente. Have you read this story before?


http://www.washtimes.com/sports/20050303-021417-1224r.htm

Yes, I saw it last year. Wish someone would do an update on those guys (plus Guevara, Osbeck Castillo, etc.).

[Cubano100%]

Alright! No more Mambo Jumbo Dumbo liberal arguments and dance with me propaganda in this Thread.



Where are the moderators in this forum?

It seems to me that the Moderators chose whom they want to restrict the use of this forum. If you are a liberal you get a free pass but if you are a conservative you get banned.

I am running out of patience here. If I start to post political comments in response to other comments in here you, the moderators, don't have any right to ban or correct me. You have not done the same with one of your own.


Do you want me to PM you directly?

You have to apply the same rules to every one. Be fair or lose your credibiliy!

[FlashGordon]

Most Cubans are paroled into the country as refugees, not as asylees. It appears you quoted the wrong federal statute, or at least one that is rarely applicable to Cubans.Maybe you need to look up both. Asylum is a status granted to a refugee. An asylee is a refugee granted asylum.

That fact aside, your "in other words" statement is 100% false. First of all, why would people on student or tourist visas have any expectation of work rights whatsoever? That makes no sense.Students may work in jobs directly tied to funding their education (work study). Tourist visas, do not permit this. These are the two most common visas held by visitors to this country. Cubans, because of their land of origin, can claim asylum, which is not available to people from other countries (including the D.R., etc.). The only other option available is a work visa, which can only be granted once an offer has been made. Cubans, on the other hand, as refugees granted asylum, can stay as long as they want, with or without a job offer. They can seek out employment, including a job as a ballplayer. The hardest part about getting a job in the U.S. for a Cuban is getting out of Cuba and onto U.S. soil. The rest is a virtually automatic (although not instantaneous) process.

Second, asylees are not considered "temporary residents." That might be your interpretation of it, but it's not their status from a legal standpoint. Regardless, asylees are allowed to work for two common sense reasons: So they can eat, and so the U.S. gov't doesn't have to support them for months or years while their applications are pending. (Otherwise, every tourist could apply for asylum and collect checks from Uncle Sam until they decide, or are forced, to return home.)Again you lack perspective. In Germany (where I have studied), asylees are not permitted to work and are required to live in specially designated housing. Cubans in the U.S. are free to live where they like and work where they like, including MLB. Cuban asylees in the U.S. have it comparatively good.

[FlashGordon]

Right, except that Cuba is already trading with the entire rest of the world, and there has been no such influx of freedom, jobs, consumer goods, etc.The impact on the U.S. lifting the embargo would have a disproportionately large impact on the Cuban economy. We are the closest, biggest economy with, as you indicated below, a large exile community. No matter what kind of safeguards would be set up to block it, American business and business capital would seep in at every crack like floodwater. Just look at how the communist boat was swamped in Eastern Europe.

You're joking, right? You're the one who took us down the "Cubans are treated better than Haitians" and "if only the embargo were lifted" paths.No, I'm not joking. As a mod myself, I consider it an obligation to relate each post to baseball in some way, even if you insist on trying to turn it back to political and economic theory. The one industry we can and should be talking about is baseball and the effect that lifting an embargo would have on it.

Yes and no. Lifting the embargo would assuredly, if not automatically, end some of the refugee rights extended to Cubans. But with practically every Cuban having a relative or friend in the U.S., I'm sure many would qualify for visas under the existing visa regime. Hell, there might even be a (net) reverse migration back to Cuba from So. Fla.That's assuming, I imagine, that lifting the embargo was accompanied by the end of the Castro regime. If Castro remained in power, I would think there would still be lots of people refusing to go back, just as former East Germans continue to move to the West. I for one doubt that Cuban ballplayers would be in any hurry to move back to Cuba and might even be wary of returning for a visit.

[Agente Libre]

Maybe you need to look up both. Asylum is a status granted to a refugee. An asylee is a refugee granted asylum.

Not true. There are differences between the two statuses.

Students may work in jobs directly tied to funding their education (work study). Tourist visas, do not permit this. These are the two most common visas held by visitors to this country. Cubans, because of their land of origin, can claim asylum, which is not available to people from other countries (including the D.R., etc.). The only other option available is a work visa, which can only be granted once an offer has been made. Cubans, on the other hand, as refugees granted asylum, can stay as long as they want, with or without a job offer. They can seek out employment, including a job as a ballplayer.

Again, full of factual mistakes. This country is chock full of asylees and refugees from all over the world -- Cuba, Asia, Middle East, Africa, Central America, etc.

That fact aside, I still don't understand your complaint about TOURISTS not having work authorization.

The hardest part about getting a job in the U.S. for a Cuban is getting out of Cuba and onto U.S. soil. The rest is a virtually automatic (although not instantaneous) process.

You seem to rather dismiss the difficulty of getting out of Cuba. Your argument is sort of like asking Mrs. Lincoln how, other than her husband getting shot, she enjoyed the play.

Again you lack perspective. In Germany (where I have studied), asylees are not permitted to work and are required to live in specially designated housing. Cubans in the U.S. are free to live where they like and work where they like, including MLB. Cuban asylees in the U.S. have it comparatively good.

I don't understand why you keep shifting the argument away from the specific argument of MLB. First you compared Cuban baseball players to the plight of Haitian rafters, and now you're invoking German asylum laws. I don't see the logic.

[FlashGordon]

Alright! No more Mambo Jumbo Dumbo liberal arguments and dance with me propaganda in this Thread.



Where are the moderators in this forum?

It seems to me that the Moderators chose whom they want to restrict the use of this forum. If you are a liberal you get a free pass but if you are a conservative you get banned.

I am running out of patience here. If I start to post political comments in response to other comments in here you, the moderators, don't have any right to bann or correct me. You have not done the same with one of your own.


Do you want me to PM you directly?

You have to apply the same rules to every one. Be fair or lose your credibiliy!
As I've stated elsewhere, it takes two. We have been trying to discuss the situation of Cuban defectors in MLB, but it becomes difficult when you and Agente insist on crying discrimination. Your own myopic view of the policies of baseball and how they relate to the asylum laws in this country make it very difficult to hold a discussion. What's more, unless I miss my count in this thread, it's two against one here. If anyone is under attack, it is me. The problem is that the two of you are rapidly losing the debate and refuse to concede even the most basic points, choosing once again to claim discrimination, this time based upon political viewpoint.

In case you've missed it, the three branches of the U.S. government are controlled by conservatives and those policies hold sway, including in the way business is conducted in MLB. Apparently you want to label everything you consider to be Cuban unfriendly as liberal mumbo jumbo, despite the fact that I have written in support of free trade and of the American policies granting easy access to asylum for Cuban defectors. I have also spoken against Castro and argued that his policies would be overwhelmed by private U.S. business interests because it can't adapt to the shifting landscape fast enough (our own Congress has trouble enough trying to keep up).

Maybe if you made this discussion less about how much we Americans and our Major League Baseball have it out for the Cubans and actually considered the raw mechanical facts of why things are they way they are, you might actually realize you aren't under attack. The American system is a flawed system, but a very effective one; even conservatives agree to that. The problem comes when trying to identify what those flaws are. I seriously doubt George Steinbrenner, for instance, would appreciate any accusation that his support for the current policies placing Cuban defectors with asylum in the U.S. into the draft puts him in the company of Hanoi Jane Fonda. He's as conservative as they come.

I have my ideas on how to fix those flaws in MLB and you have yours. Mine involve lifting the embargo, yours involve carving out a special exception for Cubans who defect to the U.S. Because MLB benefits greatly from the current conditions, I don't think they are inclined to carve out any exceptions, especially considering they've passed on those opportunities to change it in the past. But trying to smear them with accusations of discrimination based upon money is a ridiculous argument to make for a capitalist enterprise: it will always be about money and expanding baseball into potential markets. Our players play in their leagues, their players can play in ours. The only difference between Cuba and the Japan is that there is a more favorable climate for conducting business negotiations so that their players don't need to come to us. Unfortunately for Cubans, that isn't the case for them.

I can keep this up all day if I need to, but I do have other things to work on. I at least make an attempt to keep this about baseball while maintaining a sense of perspective. You all want a "Down with Castro! Down with the MLB draft rules!" message that echoes your own. You won't always get it, but to twist it into an ideological argument--maybe you have been in Cuba too long.

[FlashGordon]

Not true. There are differences between the two statuses.Yes. A refugee is a person without asylum status.



Again, full of factual mistakes. This country is chock full of asylees and refugees from all over the world -- Cuba, Asia, Middle East, Africa, Central America, etc.

That fact aside, I still don't understand your complaint about TOURISTS not having work authorization.I never said that this was something only available to Cubans; only that Cubans have access to something that isn't available to everyone. You're right, there are asylees from other countries in the U.S. The difference is that you don't like what that means for one of the few nationalities with a special interest in what it means for baseball.

And I invoke the tourist visa because that is the status of a number of foreign visitors who have nothing but a passport. Those who don't even have that or have a tourist visa are considered here illegally and they can't change that status by applying for asylum. Cubans can.You seem to rather dismiss the difficulty of getting out of Cuba. Your argument is sort of like asking Mrs. Lincoln how, other than her husband getting shot, she enjoyed the play.I don't dismiss anything. I only mean that it isn't the problem of the U.S. or MLB. If a person has to overcome personal difficulties to achieve something, it doesn't give them carte blanche to flout laws and policies. It really isn't a serious concern for MLB how hard it is to get out of Cuba or to set foot on American soil; only that once you are here, you adhere to the labor laws.
I don't understand why you keep shifting the argument away from the specific argument of MLB. First you compared Cuban baseball players to the plight of Haitian rafters, and now you're invoking German asylum laws. I don't see the logic.I'm not shifting an argument, I am giving perspective to your argument that we have it out for the Cubans. You make your own flimsy non-argument about working as an asylee as if it's bloody obvious that they need to eat. I merely pointed out that having asylum status doesn't necessarily have to mean the host country owes the asylee anything. In some places in the world, asylum seeks merely take up space and state aid. The U.S. policy is unique because it allows the asylee to work and live as they want--provided they follow the laws of the land. Considering that Cuba isn't full of starving children with swollen bellies, crawling with flies, without any healthcare, where deathsquads and warlords rule instead of a stable, centralized government...
I think the Cubans who come here have a good condition to walk into.

And once again, to claim that the MLB policies that require potential ballplayers with residency in the U.S. to enter the draft, is a failure to recognize that it is a small price to pay--even if it could use changing.

[Agente Libre]

Flash -- I'm done with the discussion. It was bad enough that you made about 20 factual mistakes in your argument and continually expanded it away from MLB to a discussion of Haitians and German asylum law, but to then have the audacity to self-declare yourself the winner is behavior more fitting a 3-year-old than a moderator of a web forum. It's clear you're just another know-it-all liberal. To each her own, I guess.

[FlashGordon]

Flash -- I'm done with the discussion. It was bad enough that you made about 20 factual mistakes in your argument and continually expanded it away from MLB to a discussion of Haitians and German asylum law, but to then have the audacity to self-declare yourself the winner is behavior more fitting a 3-year-old than a moderator of a web forum. It's clear you're just another know-it-all liberal. To each her own, I guess.I believe that taunt earns you the 3-year-old tag, too.

[Mattingly]

Anyone have any links to the steps taken by Cuban baseball players as to the asylum and/or refugee process? And how they got to eventually play in MLB games?

Rather than the back-and-forth, I'm just trying to find out info and that's it. :)

EDIT: If anyone has any links to Cuban asylum seekers or refugees, as they're treated by the US Government, I'd appreciate these also.

[Agente Libre]

It's really a simple process, albeit one that can take a long time.

If a Cuban arrives in U.S., he is ordinarily paroled into the country as a refugee. (This is not an official resident status; the person has technically not been admitted into the country but is allowed to stay pending "adjustment" of his status 366 days (or longer) after arrival.)

Once paroled, the player then needs to secure a work permit and a Soc. Sec. number, a process that takes from a week to a month. Once the work permit and SSN have been secured, that's it: The player is eligible to start working. Although a Cuban could arrive in U.S. and be eligible to work in as little as a week's time, they have to wait up to 364 days before signing a pro contract since MLB requires all Cuban refugees, regardless of age or service time in Cuba, to enter the draft.

For players who defect to a foreign country, the embargo still applies to them until they secure (1.) foreign residency papers and (2.) a work permit from the U.S. Treasury Dept., which enforces embargoes. Cubans cannot begin to negotiate MLB contracts until #1 and #2 have been secured. Due to the pro-Castro shift in this hemisphere, many countries are no longer offering status to Cubans at all, and the process can take 1 or 2 years in the remaining countries that will consider granting status to Cubans.

To me, if MLB was truly serious about attracting the very best of Cuban baseball, they would welcome Cuban refugees -- even Cuban refugees in the U.S. -- as free agents. It seems odd MLB gives "super free agency" to Asians while trying to force 32-year-old Cubans into the draft ... a draft most Cubans can't even prepare for since most are too old for high school or college, and the indy leagues don't start until 3 weeks before the draft.

[FlashGordon]

To me, if MLB was truly serious about attracting the very best of Cuban baseball, they would welcome Cuban refugees -- even Cuban refugees in the U.S. -- as free agents. It seems odd MLB gives "super free agency" to Asians while trying to force 32-year-old Cubans into the draft ... a draft most Cubans can't even prepare for since most are too old for high school or college, and the indy leagues don't start until 3 weeks before the draft.I don't disagre with what you say here, although you keep wanting to make this about "Asians" vs. "Cubans" and that's where I take exception. This isn't necessarily about one part of the world over the other; it's about red tape, legal loopholes, and MLB failing to address the *very special* circumstances as they apply to Cubans. Applying the same laws to both groups results in disproportionate treatment because of the existing political and economic realities between the U.S. and those respective regions. The policies as they exist for Cubans as a people are very generous; as they exist for ballplayers (treating their work conditions as the same as anyone else looking for work), there is a blind spot that MLB exploits. Because of those laws, however, a Cuban who gains asylum elsewhere (and those alternatives are dwindling, as you say) gains a position for negotiation that one who comes straight here does not. Maybe Selig and friends are afraid that carving out special conditions to reflect the special situation of Cubans who defect to the U.S. would mean attacking the draft system as a whole. Who really knows what their true intentions are? But they certainly can hide behind laws regarding immigration and asylum to shift the blame off their shoulders. We can try to change the laws as a voting public in a democracy so that baseball can't get away with this or the players can put pressure on Selig and the other owners to make that change (I don't think the player's union is particularly sympathetic unless it means restructuring the draft policy wholesale).

Unfortunately for Cuban players, MLB is operating within the laws (including those granting MLB a monopoly) and don't seem willing to allow an exception for prospects coming from countries that are under an embargo. But then morality and legality are not always the same thing, either.

[Cubano100%]

As I've stated elsewhere, it takes two. We have been trying to discuss the situation of Cuban defectors in MLB, but it becomes difficult when you and Agente insist on crying discrimination. Your own myopic view of the policies of baseball and how they relate to the asylum laws in this country make it very difficult to hold a discussion. What's more, unless I miss my count in this thread, it's two against one here. If anyone is under attack, it is me. The problem is that the two of you are rapidly losing the debate and refuse to concede even the most basic points, choosing once again to claim discrimination, this time based upon political viewpoint.

In case you've missed it, the three branches of the U.S. government are controlled by conservatives and those policies hold sway, including in the way business is conducted in MLB. Apparently you want to label everything you consider to be Cuban unfriendly as liberal mumbo jumbo, despite the fact that I have written in support of free trade and of the American policies granting easy access to asylum for Cuban defectors. I have also spoken against Castro and argued that his policies would be overwhelmed by private U.S. business interests because it can't adapt to the shifting landscape fast enough (our own Congress has trouble enough trying to keep up).

Maybe if you made this discussion less about how much we Americans and our Major League Baseball have it out for the Cubans and actually considered the raw mechanical facts of why things are they way they are, you might actually realize you aren't under attack. The American system is a flawed system, but a very effective one; even conservatives agree to that. The problem comes when trying to identify what those flaws are. I seriously doubt George Steinbrenner, for instance, would appreciate any accusation that his support for the current policies placing Cuban defectors with asylum in the U.S. into the draft puts him in the company of Hanoi Jane Fonda. He's as conservative as they come.

I have my ideas on how to fix those flaws in MLB and you have yours. Mine involve lifting the embargo, yours involve carving out a special exception for Cubans who defect to the U.S. Because MLB benefits greatly from the current conditions, I don't think they are inclined to carve out any exceptions, especially considering they've passed on those opportunities to change it in the past. But trying to smear them with accusations of discrimination based upon money is a ridiculous argument to make for a capitalist enterprise: it will always be about money and expanding baseball into potential markets. Our players play in their leagues, their players can play in ours. The only difference between Cuba and the Japan is that there is a more favorable climate for conducting business negotiations so that their players don't need to come to us. Unfortunately for Cubans, that isn't the case for them.

I can keep this up all day if I need to, but I do have other things to work on. I at least make an attempt to keep this about baseball while maintaining a sense of perspective. You all want a "Down with Castro! Down with the MLB draft rules!" message that echoes your own. You won't always get it, but to twist it into an ideological argument--maybe you have been in Cuba too long.



Build a wall between the USA and Mexico bigger than the Chinese wall. Get this president out of power for trying to give legal status to mostly one nationality even though there are millions of them here already. There is not political instability in that country and they enjoy democracy.

Before Castro and still under Batista Cubans did not leave the country in masses.

You are a Mambo Jumbo Dumbo liberal moderator who turned this Thread into your own agenda.

Open a Thread of your own to discuss you liberal agenda such as the new proposal to give legal status to immingrants, student visas and dance with me propaganda.


Stop exporting America. Close all the baseball academies around the world. Bring all these academies and jobs to America. Close all the borders. Drop bombs in the head of every dictator.

Then Cuban players will benefit because we can form our own players unlike other countries. I wrote about baseball therefore nobody can ban me or write anything against me.


The only miopic crying and also a liberal is you. You got no moral to ban me.

You do not have anything to say about why the government in the south mistreat other immigrants but they cry once in America.

For all the Moderators in here, you got no moral and credibility. One of your own, Flash Gordon started this fight and writes 99 % outside baseball to push his or her liberal agenda.
How can I become a moderator so I can show how it should be done?

[FlashGordon]

Build a wall between the USA and Mexico bigger than the Chinese wall. Get this president out of power for trying to give legal status to mostly one nationality even though there are millions of them here already. There is not political instability in that country and they enjoy democracy.Not really a baseball statement, in fact it sounds like you have a political agenda here.
Before Castro and still under Batista Cubans did not leave the country in masses.I'm not sure what this has to do with our discussion. But I have posted elsewhere that I think most Americans underestimate the degree to which Cubans love their homeland.
You are a Mambo Jumbo Dumbo liberal moderator who turned this Thread into your own agenda.I've only been posting here for a week or two; it was political before I got here. And to have an agenda means to have a plan of action. I've suggested ideas, but ultimately stated that the policy that's in place is not designed to be abusive toward Cubans.
Open a Thread of your own to discuss you liberal agenda such as the new proposal to give legal estatus to immingrants, student visas and dance with me propaganda.The weird thing is that the only thing remotely propagandic in what I've posted is that I personally think lifting the embargo against Cuba would be more effective than leaving it. I can understand why some don't agree, particularly Cubans, but I'm not the one calling for radical changes like building a wall between us and Mexico.
Stop exporting America. Close all the baseball academies around the world. Bring all these academies and jobs to America. Close all the borders. Drop bombs in the head of every dictator.Now this is propaganda.
Then Cuban players will benefit because we can form our own players unlike other countries. I wrote about baseball therefore nobody can ban me or write anything against me.I'm certainly not trying to get you banned, but in a democracy I have the right to write something against your ideas. One that I object to here is that you've just said we should stop giving preferential treatment to one group, then you endorse giving it to another. That isn't democracy, that's demagoguery.
The only miopic crying and also a liberal is you. You got no moral to ban me.Again, I'm not trying to ban you. But whether or not I'm a liberal, I still have the same right to my opinion that you do. You keep using "liberal" as if the word carries the same pejorative traits as "pederast". Believe it or not, being a liberal isn't a crime. But oddly enough, as I've stated before, I've endorsed some very conservative positions in this debate.
You do not have anything to say about why the government in the south mistreat other immigrants but they cry once in America.I'm not sure what you are getting at here. If you want to claim that I don't have enough insight to make any valid claims, then you are making an ad hominem argument rather than taking on my points. Weirdly enough, you seem to believe that the embargo should go too, although you've been dancing around saying so. What I did say was that the U.S. government has thrown open their doors to any Cuban who sets foot on our soil, but that claims that the labor laws don't make special exceptions in the case of the MLB draft lacks perspective and fails to balance an injustice against all the good those laws do provide for Cubans.
For all the Moderators in here, you got no moral and credibility. One of your own, Flash Gordon started this fight and writes 99 % outside baseball to push his or her liberal agenda.
How can I become a moderator so I can show how it should be done?There were about 5 or 6 pages of posts before I joined in, so no, I didn't start this fight. I'm also not trying to push any kind of agenda. I've stated my opinions where I felt they should be acknowledged, but I've always accepted that others might not agree. I can tell you, however, that making wild accusations (such as the one claiming I could possibly be a Castro-spy), even if tongue in cheek, will get you no closer to the mod status you covet.

[Cubano100%]

Flash: I can not even read your post no longer. Your posts look like a carbon copy of one of Castro's 5 hours speeches. Have a good day!


The topic of this Thread is about Cuban defectors. Please, all comments should be around this topic. Anyone having info on Cuban defectors around the world is welcomed to share their info. All other MAMBO JUMBO DUMBO DANCE WITH ME PROPAGANDA should be posted in another Thread.

I am the MODERATOR of this Thread. All Moderators at Baseball-Fever have failed to do their job.

[Mattingly]

Flash: I can not even read your post no longer. Your posts look like a carbon copy of one of Castro's 5 hours speeches. Have a good day!

The topic of this Thread is about Cuban defectors. Please, all comments should be around this topic. Anyone having info on Cuban defectors around the world is welcomed to share their info. All other MAMBO JUMBO DUMBO DANCE WITH ME PROPAGANDA should be posted in another Thread.

I am the MODERATOR of this Thread. All Moderators at Baseball-Fever have failed to do their job.
Even if you disagree with Flash's posts and/or his posting style, you are not a Moderator here. You do not know all of the Moderators here, so only one in particular have you had a disagreement with, not all of us.

This thread is currently under discussion by the various BBF Mods, so can everyone just keep themselves calm for the moment?

At the moment, let's just all stay away from any debating, which seems more like locking horns here, and focus upon Cuban defectors and how they're treated by MLB.

Thanks.

-Matt

[Cubano100%]

MLB Player Cuban team

Dodgers RHP Danys Baez Pinar del Rio
White Sox RHP Jose Contreras Pinar del Rio
Nationals RHP Livan Hernandez Isla de la Juventud
Arizona RHP Orlando Hernandez Industriales Lions
Mariners SS Yuniesky Betancourt Villa Clara

AAA

Cardinals 1b Juan Diaz Industriales Lions and Metropolitans
Cardinals C Michel Hernandez Industriales Lions and Metropolitans
Angels 1b/DH Kendry Morales Industriales Lions
Braves C Brayan Pena Cuba Junior team Industriales Lions and Metropolitans
Toronto RF Maikel Jova Villa Clara
Cubs LHP Raul Valdez Havana Cowboys

AA

Marlins Outfielder Juan Muniz Industriales Lions and Metropolitans
Braves SS Yunel Escobar Industriales Lions and Metropolitans

A

Boston RHP (Greenville) Gary Galvez Cuba Junior team
Cubs (Preoria) RHP Roberto Sotolongo Cuba Junior team

Mexico AAA
Tuneros de San Luis 2b/3b Yobal Duenas Pinar del Rio


Agente: looks like Sotolongo came from D.R. finally.

Stay tune for more info on defectors for this upcoming season!

[Cubano100%]

Even if you disagree with Flash's posts and/or his posting style, you are not a Moderator here. You do not know all of the Moderators here, so only one in particular have you had a disagreement with, not all of us.

This thread is currently under discussion by the various BBF Mods, so can everyone just keep themselves calm for the moment?

At the moment, let's just all stay away from any debating, which seems more like locking horns here, and focus upon Cuban defectors and how they're treated by MLB.

Thanks.

-Matt


That is good! All of you have to be fair or lose your credibility. This friendly discussion has been going on for a few days. Now that I wrote because all moderators except (Flash Gordon) have disappeared thus I will be becoming one in this Thread then suddenly you guys are back. WOW!

If you guys want to pick on somebody, don't pick on me because you will hear me. It seems dubious and suspicious to me how you guys appear whenever I replied in the past to comments from the world wide liberal community. I am not a conservative nor a liberal but if you liberals start posting Mambo Jumbo Dumbo Dance with me propaganda then I will become a conservative.

Why did take so long for someone to check out this Thread?

Was it because I posted that all of you have disappeared suddenly?

Anybody can disagree with me man. Do not go there! But if you post something wait for my reply.

I want no PM from nobody. I did not start anything nor I have in the past. I will delete all of them as soon I receive them.

Haven't you asked yourself where have gone all Cubans in this forum? There were about 5 of us.

I almost left too. We are sicked and tired of the Mambo Jumbo Dumbo dance with me propaganda in this forum. Now we have even a moderator who threatened to ban poeple at the IP level posting 99% comments outside baseball or the title of this Thread.

Again, where have been all Moderators lately?

I do not believe there are not Moderators in the International section. I have noticed them in the past.

I started to think there is a conspiracy at Baseball Fever.

[Mattingly]

That is good! All of you have to be fair or lose your credibility. This friendly discussion has been going on for a few days. Now that I wrote because all moderators except (Flash Gordon) have disappeared thus I will be becoming one in this Thread then suddenly you guys are back. WOW!

If you guys want to pick on somebody, don't pick on me because you will hear me. It seems dubious and suspicious to me how you guys appear whenever I replied in the past to comments from the world wide liberal community. I am not a conservative nor a liberal but if you liberals start posting Mambo Jumbo Dumbo Dance with me propaganda then I will become a conservative.

Why did take so long for someone to check out this Thread?

Was it because I posted that all of you have disappeared suddenly?

Anybody can disagree with me man. Do not go there! But if you post something wait for my reply.

I want no PM from nobody. I did not start anything nor I have in the past. I will delete all of them as soon I receive them.
I'm the co-Mod of Current Events and the Yankee forum. That's where I do most of my posting. I don't check out this thread too much. I've posted here in the past simply because the Intl forum doesn't have a regular Mod. I was merely trying to keep it active.

I have no interest in picking on yourself or anyone else. I just think that the whole thing has gone astray and I couldn't care less who's "at fault", who "started it" or anything similar. In short, let's just leave the prior discussions behind.

As to waiting for your reply, isn't that what I've just done? I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

As to sending you a PM, I don't remember having done so recently.

[FlashGordon]

Anybody can disagree with me man. Do not go there! But if you post something wait for my reply.You invite someone to disagree, then intimidate them? Apparently not.

You aren't helping your cause.

[Cubano100%]

Actually Mattingly, these are the reasons why I started this Thread specially toward the non Cubans:

1. To identify Cuban defectors and their teams
2. To publish their stats
3. To publish their stories
4. Maybe to publish their teams and stats in Cuba
5. To give updates about their situation and baseball careers



MLB has to live by their decisions. MLB policy on Cuban defectors is go to the draft. That is what they want. It is all about cheap labor and not about what make sense or is right.

Maybe the current MLB policy is one reason why Cubans in Miami-Dade, Broward, West Palm Beach counties and the Keys do not support the AA team down there: the Miami Goldfishes.

[Mattingly]

Actually Mattingly, these are the reasons why I started this Thread specially toward the non Cubans:

1. To identify Cuban defectors and their teams
2. To publish their stats
3. To publish their stories
4. Maybe to publish their teams and stats in Cuba
5. To give updates about their situation and baseball careers

MLB has to live by their decisions. MLB policy on Cuban defectors is go to the draft. That is what they want. It is all about cheap labor and not about what make sense or is right.

Maybe the current MLB policy is one reason why Cubans in Miami-Dade, Broward, West Palm Beach counties and the Keys do not support the AA team down there: the Miami Goldfishes.
In that case, please tell that story. Right now would be fine.

Thanking you very much in advance. :)

[Mattingly]

Of the Cubans currently in MLB, how did they get here? Perhaps it was said before, but it's been a very busy thread, to say the least. :D

I know that El Duque and Jose Contreras defected. I think that Contreras came here via Venezuela, didn't he?

I'd like to know more about Danys Baez and others, what route they took to get here, as well as how long it took from the time he and others left Cuba to being on an MLB team.

Thanks. :)

[ELPURI]

If you know of any group of Cuban-Americans actively lobbying to lift the embargo against Cuba, please let me know. I for one would love to know about it and would really like to see them pose real opposition to the vocal majority of Cuban-Americans that do.


WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM TALKING ALL THE TIME ABOUT POLITICS?????:mad:
AREN'T YOU THE ONE THAT CLOSE THE CUBAN POLITICS TREAD??? NOW TALKING ABOUT CUBAN POLITICS ALL THE TIME. WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM???
:mad: :mad: :mad:

[Agente Libre]

Contreras defected in Mexico in Oct. 2002, then inexplicably came to U.S., then left for Nicaragua when his agent learned Cubans are eligible for the draft.

Danys Baez defected at the 1999 Pan-Am Games in Winnipeg, then went to Costa Rica or D.R. and signed a free agent contract there.

El Duque took a boat to Bahamas, was eventually released and allowed to travel to C.R., and signed his contract there.

Most of the big-money players followed a similar route, mostly because corrupt foreign gov't officials are always quick to do anything if there's money involved. Most other defectors have TRIED to take a similar route, but a lot get side-tracked in the bureaucracy for months or years. There are over a dozen recent defectors who have been waiting up to 2 years to get their affairs in order so they can sign. The pro-Castro political shift in this hemisphere has also thwarted many defectors; I'm not aware of a single country, oher than U.S., that is currently granting status to Cubans.

[Agente Libre]

Rumor around Miami yesterday is that several players arrived in Florida by boat. If anyone has heard anything, please post info. here.

[Astro]

Kendry Morales signed rather quickly for a defector

[Mattingly]

WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM TALKING ALL THE TIME ABOUT POLITICS?????:mad:
AREN'T YOU THE ONE THAT CLOSE THE CUBAN POLITICS TREAD??? NOW TALKING ABOUT CUBAN POLITICS ALL THE TIME. WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM???
:mad: :mad: :mad:
Your 2nd post and you're getting on someone's case? Please, not now.

That matter has been officially closed and shall remain as such. Please return to discussing baseball.

Thanks.

[Mattingly]

Contreras defected in Mexico in Oct. 2002, then inexplicably came to U.S., then left for Nicaragua when his agent learned Cubans are eligible for the draft.
Was José Contreras eligible for the Nicaraguan draft or the MLB draft? I remember that there was a power struggle for him between Boston and the Yanks, and the Red Sox hired his former pitching coach, I think. I remember the part about Nicaragua.

If in Nicaragua, what made Cubans eligible for that country's draft? Any details would be greatly appreciated. :)
Danys Baez defected at the 1999 Pan-Am Games in Winnipeg, then went to Costa Rica or D.R. and signed a free agent contract there.
I see that Danys Baez (http://baseball-reference.com/b/baezda01.shtml) was a 2001 rookie at age 23, which was still pretty young.

How amenable are each of Costa Rica or the Dominican Republic to Cuban defectors (at least members of the Cuban National team)? Do they often enter the draft there (if applicable)? When Danys signed with the Devil Rays, was he a free agent or did he enter the amateur draft?
El Duque took a boat to Bahamas, was eventually released and allowed to travel to C.R., and signed his contract there.
That's interesting. I'd thought all along that he'd come straight from Cuba to play for the Yanks in 1998. How long was he on the Costa Rican baseball team?
Most of the big-money players followed a similar route, mostly because corrupt foreign gov't officials are always quick to do anything if there's money involved. Most other defectors have TRIED to take a similar route, but a lot get side-tracked in the bureaucracy for months or years. There are over a dozen recent defectors who have been waiting up to 2 years to get their affairs in order so they can sign. The pro-Castro political shift in this hemisphere has also thwarted many defectors; I'm not aware of a single country, oher than U.S., that is currently granting status to Cubans.
So as to the baseball players, if someone were on the Cuban team, their best bet to play professional would eventually be MLB? What is their chance if they'd wanted to play for Venezuela, Dominican, Costa Rico, Puerto Rico (a US commonwealth)?

Thanks for your time. :)

[Agente Libre]

Kendry Morales took about 6-7 months to sign his contract, followed by about 5 months of visa problems. Rumor has it Morales signed using fake papers, and then used part of his signing bonus to buy "legitimate" papers from a corrupt D.R. government official, which is why it took him 5 months to get his visa issued.

[Agente Libre]

Was José Contreras eligible for the Nicaraguan draft or the MLB draft? I remember that there was a power struggle for him between Boston and the Yanks, and the Red Sox hired his former pitching coach, I think. I remember the part about Nicaragua.

If in Nicaragua, what made Cubans eligible for that country's draft? Any details would be greatly appreciated. :)

Contreras SHOULD have been in the 2003 MLB draft based on prior MLB rulings -- Contreras received refugee status from the U.S. in Oct. 2002 -- but he ended up becoming a free agent in Dec. 2002 using Nicaraguan residency papers.

There is no Nicaraguan draft that I'm aware of, at least not one that a player like Contreras would be subject to (like in U.S., Japan or Mexico).

How amenable are each of Costa Rica or the Dominican Republic to Cuban defectors (at least members of the Cuban National team)? Do they often enter the draft there (if applicable)? When Danys signed with the Devil Rays, was he a free agent or did he enter the amateur draft?

Not sure what "draft" you are referring to. The only draft a Cuban defector could end up subject to is the MLB draft, which is limited to players in U.S., Canada and Puerto Rico. All other players, except those governed by working agreements in Japan, Korea and Mexico, are free agents.

Costa Rica and D.R. used to be very welcoming toward Cubans but that is no longer true. The D.R. has basically eliminated residency for Cubans, and the process in Costa Rica now takes so long a player's career would be in jeopardy by the time the needed papers are received (see Michel Abreu, Barbaro Canizares, Amaury Sanit, etc.).

That's interesting. I'd thought all along that he'd come straight from Cuba to play for the Yanks in 1998. How long was he on the Costa Rican baseball team?

He wasn't. He simply went to Costa Rica for residency purposes, which made him eligible to sign an MLB contract as a free agent. Of all Cuban defectors, Duque probably had the easiest time. He was well-known as a player, and his brother Livan had just been the World Series MVP a few months before Duque defected. Everything fell into place for him very quickly. Most subsequent defectors have had a much tougher time.

So as to the baseball players, if someone were on the Cuban team, their best bet to play professional would eventually be MLB? What is their chance if they'd wanted to play for Venezuela, Dominican, Costa Rico, Puerto Rico (a US commonwealth)?

Well, if a Cuban decides to leave Cuba, MLB makes the most sense. Aside from rookie leagues for teenagers, the countries you listed only have 3-month winter leagues that would pay a maximum of $30,000 for the 3 months. (Costa Rica's league is basically an amateur league with no salaries.)

[Mattingly]

Agent, thanks for that great reply. :D

From what I remember about Orlando Hernandez, NY's late John Cardinal O'Connor had also personally lobbied Fidel Castro to allow Hernandez' family to come to the USA without issues. In an unusual turn, Castro allowed this to happen. I think that Hernandez lives in Florida, likely Miami.

Anyway, good day to you. :)

[Cubano100%]

Agent, thanks for that great reply. :D

From what I remember about Orlando Hernandez, NY's late John Cardinal O'Connor had also personally lobbied Fidel Castro to allow Hernandez' family to come to the USA without issues. In an unusual turn, Castro allowed this to happen. I think that Hernandez lives in Florida, likely Miami.

Anyway, good day to you. :)

Castro did it to score some points in the public opinion. Orlando Hernandez was banned from baseball in Cuba once his half brother Livan defected. So the government in Bahamas could not deport him like they have done in the past with other Cuban players and regular Cubans.


Cuban players go to another country to get their legal documents so they can be declared free agents. Once becoming a free agent you can negotiate with all teams though only a handfull of teams have signed Cubans. I do not know why Cuban players always end up with the same teams. MLB officials have to ask that to the other teams especially the Baltimore Parakeets.

Did they sign a deal with Castro so they would not sign defectors when they played the Cuban team?

[Mattingly]

Castro did it to score some points in the public opinion. Orlando Hernandez was banned from baseball in Cuba once his half brother Livan defected. So the government in Bahamas could not deport him like they have done in the past with other Cuban players and regular Cubans.

Cuban players go to another country to get their legal documents so they can be declared free agents. Once becoming a free agent you can negotiate with all teams though only a handfull of teams have signed Cubans. I do not know why Cuban players always end up with the same teams. MLB officials have to ask that to the other teams especially the Baltimore Parakeets.

Did they sign a deal with Castro so they would not sign defectors when they played the Cuban team?
When a player's brother or half-brother (I think Livan is Orlando's half-brother, but unsure if they share a mother or father), they are automatically banned from the Cuban team? How often has this happened?

When you say that Castro allowed El Duque's family to come to the USA, was that to score points with the American public? I presume you didn't mean those in Cuba, but just wanted to make sure.

In either case, years earlier, the relatively new O'Connor had introduced himself to New York as a New Yorker by wearing a Yankee cap. The very next day, he'd worn a Mets cap, thereby solidifying him with the regular baseball-loving folks out there. This after he'd replaced the very popular Terrence Cardinal Cooke, just for background info.

I've known lawyers who've dealt with work visas, but I'm not sure if with Cubans. Do these guys not have good lawyers why they are stalled so long? Or is the beauracracy so bad? I'm not too sure.

As to going to another country, that's been the DR & Costa Rica in the past, but not much longer is what yourself (and/or Agent) are saying, right?

As to teams which have or would sign Cuban defectors, the Yanks and D-Rays are two. The Red Sox were definitely after Jose Contreras, so they could be counted also. Which teams do you feel would not--or at least so far have not--signed or discussed terms with Cuban defectors?

As to the Cuban defectors when they played the National team, are you referring to the WBC? In the past, the Cuban team has played the Baltimore Orioles. I presume that was in the USA, but I never followed this too closely.

[FlashGordon]

Cuban players go to another country to get their legal documents so they can be declared free agents. Once becoming a free agent you can negotiate with all teams though only a handfull of teams have signed Cubans. I do not know why Cuban players always end up with the same teams. MLB officials have to ask that to the other teams especially the Baltimore Parakeets.

Did they sign a deal with Castro so they would not sign defectors when they played the Cuban team?I don't believe it is anything as sinister as that. I know that once the Red Sox had Pedro Martinez and Manny Ramierez under contract, they became more active in the Dominican Republic, building a baseball academy and looking for talent to draft. As big as teams as the Red Sox and Yankees are, they can't afford to have a huge presence everywhere at the same time, so they usually go where they have active contacts.

The optimist in me tends to think that teams with Cuban players have an advantage when it comes to scouting reports on defectors. If you have a valued member of your squad who is from Cuba and knows a little something about a player who has recently made it off the island, then that team will be more likely to consider the option, especially if it fills a need. Teams with very few contacts will want to see the player in action before committing themselves. If they can get away with signing a low end minor-league contract, they can hedge their bets, but without seeing the player in action, especially against big league opposition, they will be buying the proverbial "pig in a poke" (trans. un cerdo en saco). That doesn't have to be interpreted as disrespect; it's just hard business sense.

[Cubano100%]

Follow my bold letters to answer your points.

When a player's brother or half-brother (I think Livan is Orlando's half-brother, but unsure if they share a mother or father), they are automatically banned from the Cuban team? How often has this happened?

Sometimes. El Duke was banned after Livan defected.

When you say that Castro allowed El Duque's family to come to the USA, was that to score points with the American public? I presume you didn't mean those in Cuba, but just wanted to make sure.

Yes. The same way he wanted to donate money to Katrina victims.

In either case, years earlier, the relatively new O'Connor had introduced himself to New York as a New Yorker by wearing a Yankee cap. The very next day, he'd worn a Mets cap, thereby solidifying him with the regular baseball-loving folks out there. This after he'd replaced the very popular Terrence Cardinal Cooke, just for background info.

I've known lawyers who've dealt with work visas, but I'm not sure if with Cubans. Do these guys not have good lawyers why they are stalled so long? Or is the beauracracy so bad? I'm not too sure.

Castro can care less about lawyers. As for third countries, Castro send coaches from different sports to help them develope their programs. He also send doctors, teachers and so forth. These countries get cheap labor from the Cuban gobernment because they do not have the money to spend in these programs otherwise. In return, Castro gets from them assurances that their countries won't be a heaven for Cuban defectors. Cuban defectors are bad for Castro's reputation if he has one. He also send people to work with the poor in these countries to rally them against the rich.

In any given Latinamerican country, the rich and middle class are a minority and the poor are the majority.

Let me stop right here because I know sombody will come to post something about this and a new war will begin.

As to going to another country, that's been the DR & Costa Rica in the past, but not much longer is what yourself (and/or Agent) are saying, right?

See prior answer.

As to teams which have or would sign Cuban defectors, the Yanks and D-Rays are two. The Red Sox were definitely after Jose Contreras, so they could be counted also. Which teams do you feel would not--or at least so far have not--signed or discussed terms with Cuban defectors?

The Orioles were sued once. I guess it is difficult to prove. They signed late last year LHP Eddie Oropeza who is a veteran out of the Mexican League. Oropeza has been around for a while. He has played for some MLB teams.

Some of the teams that give us a chance are:

Yankees
Mets
Red Sox
Braves
Marlins
Twins (one player)
Angels (one player)
D-Rays
San Fran (one player)
Cardinals

Maybe somebody else can expand on this.

As to the Cuban defectors when they played the National team, are you referring to the WBC? In the past, the Cuban team has played the Baltimore Orioles. I presume that was in the USA, but I never followed this too closely.

At Havana:

Orioles 3
Cuba 2

At Baltimore:

Cuba 12
Orioles 7

[FlashGordon]

Castro can care less about lawyers. As for third countries, Castro send coaches from different sports to help them develope their programs. He also send doctors, teachers and so forth. These countries get cheap labor from the Cuban gobernment because they do not have the money to spend in these programs otherwise. In return, Castro gets from them assurances that their countries won't be a heaven for Cuban defectors. Cuban defectors are bad for Castro's reputation if he has one. He also send people to work with the poor in these countries to rally them against the rich.

In any given Latinamerican country, the rich and middle class are a minority and the poor are the majority.

Let me stop right here because I know sombody will come to post something about this and a new war will begin.No war is necessary; I agree with you more than you realize. This is the same kind of propaganda stunt that Chavez recently pulled when he sold home heating oil to programs for the needy in the Northeast (U.S.) this past winter. Out of one side of his mouth he condemns the U.S. and threatens to withold oil, and out of the other he offers to sell the oil directly to the poor. There really isn't anything altruistic in his aims; its all to make him look good, mainly in the South American, Carribean region. Not everyone buys it, but enough do that he's beginning to have an influence over the politics of the region.

The way Castro uses baseball to boost his image is very similar and when baseball was removed as a medal in the Summer Olympics recently, he used it as an opportunity to condemn the U.S. for not actively lobbying harder to keep it, claiming it was our way to trying to hurt Cuba further by denying them a chance to win a medal.

[Mattingly]

Cubano, thanks for your excellent reply. I'll try to reply to this later on.

Flash has re-entered the thread, and I do hope that you two can see things a little better now. I'd like to hope that can happen, and since I have the utmost respect for yourself (Cubano), as well as Agent and Flash, I'd like to see this happen.

Everyone enjoy. :)

[Cubano100%]

I just want to see my country free and all Cubans working together for a better tomorrow. If you are a politician from either side, you have to face the election to see weather or not people agree with your policies.

To the extremists in Miami and Cuba, you can shoot them. They are a minority controling the politics.


You can ban me now because I am not talking about baseball.:D :D :D

More Cubans from other Forum may join this forum soon. Do not worry they are baseball fans and not hardliners. They are disperse around the world. Let's see how many join BBF. We may even have a few from Cuba too.;) ;) ;)

I have had disagreements in the past with Agente Libre, Fermin Laffita, Jim Albright, Honus Warner and others. No problems and no big arguments with them. But if someone writes about how wonderfull is the Cuban government and life in Cuba, you should expect I will reply.

When I say someone it is directed to anybody and not to any specific person in here.

[Mattingly]

*takes steps to nuke Cubano's account* :D ;) :p :laugh :crazy

Sounds good, man. We're all human beings, so that the tension shouldn't be high at all. We're all people, you obviously love baseball like everyone else here, and you bring a unique perspective.

If someone bugs you about politics, you know my PM box is always open.

Peace! :)

[FlashGordon]

I just want to see my country free and all Cubans working together for a better tomorrow. If you are a politician from either side, you have to face the election to see weather or not people agree with your policies.That is something I agree with 100%. Whether left or right, ultimately the majority of the population should have the right to choose, and to change direction when one side can't do the job.

[Cubano100%]

MLB

Pitcher Danys Baez Dodgers
Pitcher Jose Contreras White Sox
Pitcher Livan Hernandez Nationals
Pitcher Orlando Hernandez Arizona
SS Yuniesky Betancourt Mariners


AAA

1B Juan Diaz Cardinals
C Michel Hernandez Cardinals
1B Kendry Morales Angels
C Brayan Pena Braves
Outfielder Maikel Jova Toronto
Pitcher Raul Valdez Cubs
Pitcher Maikel tejera Giants
Outfielder Alex Sanchez Reds


AA

Outfielder Juan Muniz Marlins
SS Yunel Escobar Braves


A

Outfielder Joel Perez Yankees
Pitcher Alain Soler Mets
Pitcher Gary Galvez Boston
Pitcher Mael Rodriguez Arizona
Pitcher Roberto Sotolongo Cubs
Outfielder Josue Perez Texas
Catcher Juan Gutierrez Orioles
Pitcher Rafael Galvizo Marlins
Pitcher Zaidel Beltran Yankees


Mexico

Pitcher Hansel Izquierdo Petroleros de Boca Chica
2B/3B Yobal Duenas Tuneros de San Luis




Stay tune for more!

[Agente Libre]

Also:

RHP Rafael Galbizo (A - Marlins)

Looks like Arian Cruz (AA - Reds) and Jose Angel Cordero (A - Twins) are either hurt or were released at the end of spring training.