538280
01-16-2006, 06:21 PM
I thought it would be fun to take a look at and compare two very similar players who get very little press even here at BBF and are always underrated and overlooked.
Ron Cey and Sal Bando were close to contemporary third baseman. Bando was a few years older and thus got his start in the mid 1960s while Cey didn't reach the majors until 1971. They were extremely similar players. Neither were high average hitters at all, with BAs of .254 for BAndo and .261 for Cey, but they walked a lot and hit for good power and thus had secondary averages of .325 (Cey) and .305 (Bando). Both could hold their own at third, but weren't great fielders by any stretch. Most of their value came in the batter's box. They were both key members of great teams and probably didn't receive enough credit for what they did for those teams. Both played in pitcher's parks. Both were very good college players for Pac 10 schools. Really, the more I think about it it's unbelieveable how similar their characteristics were. Here are their career totals:
playerID nameLast nameFirst StartYr EndYr G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO IBB HBP SH SF GIDP AVG OBP SLG
ceyro01 Cey Ron 1971 1987 2073 7162 977 1868 328 21 316 1139 24 29 1012 1235 117 62 26 82 185 .261 .354 .445
playerID nameLast nameFirst StartYr EndYr G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO IBB HBP SH SF GIDP AVG OBP SLG
bandosa01 Bando Sal 1966 1981 2019 7060 982 1790 289 38 242 1039 75 46 1031 923 69 75 65 57 149 .254 .352 .408
Looking at those numbers, it would appear they are very similar and that Cey deserves to rate slightly ahead. But, I have Bando in my top 100 players (#79) and rated as the 8th best third baseman in history. I do rate Cey higher than most at #15 all time at third, but still far behind Sal.
How can such similar players be that far apart? There are many reasons:
1.Although they ended up with about the same career totals, Bando was better at his best. His top 3 Win Share seasons were 36, 31, and 29 while Cey's were 28, 27, and 27. Bando in 1969 had a monster season, batting .281 when the league average was .250 along with 111 walks which was good for third in the league, and with 31 home runs and 113 RBI his power wasn't hurting either. Plus, he was playing in a low run scoring environment, with the league OPS at 688, and in pitcher's park with a park factor of 96. He had 36 Win Shares that season. Cey had all those same skills and certainly did all those things in different seasons, but he never put it all together in one year for a season like that. Bando in 1973 when he led the league total bases, extra base hits, and doubles and led his team to a World Series title was also better than Cey ever was. Overall, Bando had a much better peak.
2.Bando was one of the greatest intangible players of all time. He was the leader of the Oakland A's who won three straight championships 1972-1974 and helped to keep the team together during some of their famed brawls. Reggie Jackson in his autobiography talks at some length about how great Bando was for the team and how he kept everyone focused on their goals-winning the World Series. The line you'll find everywhere about him is "the glue who held the A's together". Cey, from what I've read, was a very good man who like all the other Dodgers was active in the community, but there's little evidence that he had value on the standings outside of his stats like Bando.
3.Bando did much better in MVP voting. He finished second in the vote in 1971 behind only his teammate Vida Blue, meaning that MVP voters regarded him as the best position player in the AL that year. He also finished 3rd in the vote in 1974 and 4th in 1973. He ended his career 155th all time in BBRef's "MVP shares". Cey only finished top 10 once in the vote (8th in 1977) and is 634th all time in MVP shares.
4.Cey was a very slow baserunner, and was nicknamed "The Penguin" because of his waddling running style. Bando was hardly a gazelle, but he was a smart baserunner who could steal bases when needed.
5.The numbers above are unfair to Bando somewhat because he came along later and played a few years in the pitching rich 1960s. Cey came along later and thus stuck around until the home run explosion of 1987 and the late 80s, and never played in the 1960s. Bando's raw BA, OBP, and SLG are worse than Cey's, but their relative stats are about the same. Bando's relative line was 100/110/109 while Cey's was 99/107/114.
Both are very, very underrated, of course. But, Bando I believe has a very good case for the Hall of Fame. Cey not as much, although he was a great player and the best of the famous Dodger infield of the late 70s and early 80s (better than Garvey). I have heard Bando referred to as "a poor man's Ron Cey". He certainly isn't that.
Ron Cey and Sal Bando were close to contemporary third baseman. Bando was a few years older and thus got his start in the mid 1960s while Cey didn't reach the majors until 1971. They were extremely similar players. Neither were high average hitters at all, with BAs of .254 for BAndo and .261 for Cey, but they walked a lot and hit for good power and thus had secondary averages of .325 (Cey) and .305 (Bando). Both could hold their own at third, but weren't great fielders by any stretch. Most of their value came in the batter's box. They were both key members of great teams and probably didn't receive enough credit for what they did for those teams. Both played in pitcher's parks. Both were very good college players for Pac 10 schools. Really, the more I think about it it's unbelieveable how similar their characteristics were. Here are their career totals:
playerID nameLast nameFirst StartYr EndYr G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO IBB HBP SH SF GIDP AVG OBP SLG
ceyro01 Cey Ron 1971 1987 2073 7162 977 1868 328 21 316 1139 24 29 1012 1235 117 62 26 82 185 .261 .354 .445
playerID nameLast nameFirst StartYr EndYr G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO IBB HBP SH SF GIDP AVG OBP SLG
bandosa01 Bando Sal 1966 1981 2019 7060 982 1790 289 38 242 1039 75 46 1031 923 69 75 65 57 149 .254 .352 .408
Looking at those numbers, it would appear they are very similar and that Cey deserves to rate slightly ahead. But, I have Bando in my top 100 players (#79) and rated as the 8th best third baseman in history. I do rate Cey higher than most at #15 all time at third, but still far behind Sal.
How can such similar players be that far apart? There are many reasons:
1.Although they ended up with about the same career totals, Bando was better at his best. His top 3 Win Share seasons were 36, 31, and 29 while Cey's were 28, 27, and 27. Bando in 1969 had a monster season, batting .281 when the league average was .250 along with 111 walks which was good for third in the league, and with 31 home runs and 113 RBI his power wasn't hurting either. Plus, he was playing in a low run scoring environment, with the league OPS at 688, and in pitcher's park with a park factor of 96. He had 36 Win Shares that season. Cey had all those same skills and certainly did all those things in different seasons, but he never put it all together in one year for a season like that. Bando in 1973 when he led the league total bases, extra base hits, and doubles and led his team to a World Series title was also better than Cey ever was. Overall, Bando had a much better peak.
2.Bando was one of the greatest intangible players of all time. He was the leader of the Oakland A's who won three straight championships 1972-1974 and helped to keep the team together during some of their famed brawls. Reggie Jackson in his autobiography talks at some length about how great Bando was for the team and how he kept everyone focused on their goals-winning the World Series. The line you'll find everywhere about him is "the glue who held the A's together". Cey, from what I've read, was a very good man who like all the other Dodgers was active in the community, but there's little evidence that he had value on the standings outside of his stats like Bando.
3.Bando did much better in MVP voting. He finished second in the vote in 1971 behind only his teammate Vida Blue, meaning that MVP voters regarded him as the best position player in the AL that year. He also finished 3rd in the vote in 1974 and 4th in 1973. He ended his career 155th all time in BBRef's "MVP shares". Cey only finished top 10 once in the vote (8th in 1977) and is 634th all time in MVP shares.
4.Cey was a very slow baserunner, and was nicknamed "The Penguin" because of his waddling running style. Bando was hardly a gazelle, but he was a smart baserunner who could steal bases when needed.
5.The numbers above are unfair to Bando somewhat because he came along later and played a few years in the pitching rich 1960s. Cey came along later and thus stuck around until the home run explosion of 1987 and the late 80s, and never played in the 1960s. Bando's raw BA, OBP, and SLG are worse than Cey's, but their relative stats are about the same. Bando's relative line was 100/110/109 while Cey's was 99/107/114.
Both are very, very underrated, of course. But, Bando I believe has a very good case for the Hall of Fame. Cey not as much, although he was a great player and the best of the famous Dodger infield of the late 70s and early 80s (better than Garvey). I have heard Bando referred to as "a poor man's Ron Cey". He certainly isn't that.