Medicus Bat

[Erik]

Has anyone used this training device? Where can I find this product? I have seen the "Hindge Bat" but I can't seem to locate the "Medicus Bat" .:hp :hp


EL,

[Fuddrules]

Are you sure it's not a golf product?

http://www.medicus.com/

[jsiggy]

Has anyone used this training device? Where can I find this product? I have seen the "Hindge Bat" but I can't seem to locate the "Medicus Bat" .:hp :hp
EL,

Pretty sure this was Nyman's term for a bat he created when demonstrating some swing plane & momentum transfer concepts. Name obviously came from the medicus golf club mentioned above. Idea is similar to simulate the weight on the end of the rope swing from Adair's The Physics of Baseball. The hinge bat is a commercial version of it.

[wogdoggy]

metalwood bats make them if your willing to shell it out.

[Erik]

metalwood bats make them if your willing to shell it out.

what is the purpose of this device? This seems a little steep for this product. Please explain why this product is needed.



EL,

[Erik]

Pretty sure this was Nyman's term for a bat he created when demonstrating some swing plane & momentum transfer concepts. Name obviously came from the medicus golf club mentioned above. Idea is similar to simulate the weight on the end of the rope swing from Adair's The Physics of Baseball. The hinge bat is a commercial version of it.


Would you consider this product something that will develop a swing? If so in what way ? Please anyone explain.


EL,

[Adam Williams]

This bat is very easy to make

[Adam Williams]

another picture

[swingbuster]

is that dangerous? wow! do you hit balls with it?

[Adam Williams]

No it isnt dangerous.

To hit with it you have to be connected. If you are disconnected at all you will know. It also helps with some swing plane issues. If you are a hands to the ball guy or a swing down guy you will find out in a hurry.

[Ohfor]

Way more effective than the HBH.

[jsiggy]

Adam looks like he used the exact same materials as I did when making mine. Two heavy duty eyebolts and a single adjustable link. Works pretty well. Cost about $5.50 (plus an old beat up bat) if I recall.

And yes you can definitely hit with this bat. If you disconnect or use the hands to the ball approach, the bat head is dead. You can really feel it when you get good momentum transfer though.

http://photos.imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/analysis/sig-medicus.gif

Another option... I have an assistant/friend who uses some mooring rope for the same purpose - 1-1/2" diameter very heavy manilla rope - that works well too. You can't hit the ball as far (further than you might think though), but you also don't have the follow-through worry (I recommend a top hand release with the hinged bat - or else it hurts). I think the rope may be as good or even the better choice for swing plane issues - but not as good for other momentum transfer issues. Cost of the rope bat was about $2.50 ($0.79/ft).

If you're trying to decide which to use/make, the kids I've worked with seem to like the hinged bat better (primarily because they like watching the ball fly further), but the rope bat is safer - may be better for younger kids.

Edited to reword (hopefully clearer), add last paragraph, and link in photo of both hinge bat and rope bat that I made. I found the rope at a local hardware store. (I left it a little long just for the added weight.)

[Erik]

You can definitely hit with this bat. But actually I have a friend who uses some mooring rope for the same purpose - probably 1-1/2" diameter and very heavy - that I think works even better. You don't have to worry about the follow through (I have to use release tophand with this hinged bat or it hurts whereas the rope I don't).[/QUOTE]

Do you put the rope in the middle and still use the two bolts that screw into the bats ends?


EL,

[jsiggy]

Do you put the rope in the middle and still use the two bolts that screw into the bats ends?


No, sorry I wasn't clear. I edited the above photo to add the rope bat I created.

[Ohfor]

Eric

You're always lurking...

.....and learning.

[Erik]

No, sorry I wasn't clear. I edited the above photo to add the rope bat I created.


Thanks for the info. I made one today and tried this out. I hit with this first of a tee. I then tried it with softoss. This took a little time but I got it. I finally hit some in the medium speed batting cage. Man, I about broke my back with a two hand finish. I did start hitting though once I got the hang of this device. I like it! I will try the rope and let you know. Thanks for the clips.


EL,

[Erik]

Eric

You're always lurking...

.....and learning.

Ohfor,
there is so much to learn from good teachers. I feel like I have hit a gold mind of knowledge. I have spent my entire life playing this game and competing with the best. I now have a new game and this is to Instruct how to be the best. I feel there are some of the best Instructors right on this sight. Where there is good teachings in this subject you will see me.


EL,:waving :waving

[jsiggy]

Thanks for the info. I made one today and tried this out. I hit with this first of a tee. I then tried it with softoss. This took a little time but I got it. I finally hit some in the medium speed batting cage. Man, I about broke my back with a two hand finish. I did start hitting though once I got the hang of this device. I like it! I will try the rope and let you know. Thanks for the clips.


Interesting. I've used the hinge bat on the tee and with front toss. but I've never tried live or machine pitching though. Thanks for the info.

[fpdad]

I put a ~4 wraps of duct tape over the screws and bolts; keeps the bathead from hitting you in the back as easily, esp. when you keep both hands on the bat as you swing.
I think keeping both hands on the hinge bat helps the hooking action, rather than releasing the top hand which encourages more extension.

[ragweed]

Curious how people use this device and what kind of feedback do you get from it.

rw

[wogdoggy]

guys do you make any length adjustments for the hooks? looks like a 29 inch bat can get to be 31 inches plus unless you shave some wood somewhere?

[jsiggy]

guys do you make any length adjustments for the hooks? looks like a 29 inch bat can get to be 31 inches plus unless you shave some wood somewhere?

Used a 34" bat and took the exact amount off the bat that I added with the hooks & link. I'm pretty sure it was 4". I used the ratio of the metalwood bat from an image on their website to determine where to cut.

[RobV]

It'd be nice if someone could post a clip of this in use.

:D

[tom.guerry]

Medicus bat/club is fine for learning feel of "rotational component" of swing.

That means it is just fine in hitting if you don't belive in the "torque" component of the swing.

I personally do believe in the torque component which is one of the BIG differences between golf (handle club/grip so it is like one big hand/no push/pull) and hitting, in hitting you want the push/pull or pull/pull of bat handle as describied by Mankin.

If you do belive in arm action emphasis in the hitting swing,I would limit the use of the medicus to learning the feel of staying connected to the bodies rotation, but do not let it degrads the torque element of the swing. A good deal of thought needs to go into grip as well as per mankin.

[Ohfor]

Whoooooooooooooooooa. WOW!

We just finished our first "Medicus" lesson.

We hit off the Swing-A-Way in the basement. First couple of swings he wrapped the bat around the cords so bad that it took forever to untangle it.
Then, he finally figured out what medicus requires. Got the feeling of the swing. Memorized it best he could.

We then went to the cage and he had the best bp session of his life.

We have learned a valuable lesson. We didn't think he was pushing his arms.....well, medicus proved differently.

And......the best......he had to ask me if he was cheating (cheating while timing the machine). Why? Because he said he had so much more time than he used to. Why? Because he let the shoulder rotation take over as opposed to rotating, then pushing, then getting eaten up by the pitch.

Another interesting point is he says he feels quicker the other way and slower this way. Why? Because the load of the bat on the shoulder rotation feels slower than the unencumbered turn of the body without connection. That unencumbered turn without connection feels quick. Makes sense. It is. But, you can't hit that way. The body flys open and leaves the bat. No bat, no load, feels quicker. Yet, by the time he flew open, then pushed with the hands, the ball would be on him. Felt quick, yet gets jammed and had trouble with timing. A very valuable piece of information on how the body "fools" you. It gives you a wrong read. You have to be sharp to figure out what is going on. Compare that to the "slow" feel which is a turning body with a connected bat that STARTS ROTATING IMMEDIATELY instead of after you've flown open and pushed your hands. The fact that it starts rotating immediately is why it is actually quicker even though it feels slower. And, make sure you understand that when I say "slow feel" I don't mean it's slow. What I mean is it feels slow COMPARED TO the way he was doing it before. The slower feel is right. The quicker feel is wrong. Damn that body sending "funny" reads to the brain.

Very interesting session.

I also need to add that watching the Mr. Englishbey video of him hitting the ball off a tee over 250' with one arm played a major role in our "ah ha" moment.

[ragweed]

Ohfor, WHat in your opinion is the best way to use this thing. Start with the tee then soft toss perhaps? You didn't use it in the cage did you? Any video?

If you push, the attached end leaves the swing plane...is that correct?

Very cool idea.

ragweed

[Ohfor]

Tee and soft toss is a good place to start.

I took a few swings in the cage and I hit one or two decent. The problem we had using it in the cage was the machine was throwing all over the place and we couldn't just set our swing plane and swing there, (like you usually can against a pitching machine; within a small margin of error) the ball might be ankle high, shoulder high or in between. Not that that is all bad. We are just rookies at it. And, you definately have to be very good with your posture to make those extreme adjustments, and I am not that good yet.

Yup, push with the hands and the end leaves the plane.

The value of the lead arm in setting the plane is very well demonstrated with this.

[ragweed]

thanks for the answer. I know if it made and impact on you then it must be good.

I'll have the boys try it. I do think the rope would work very well also.

rw

[4for4]

I put a piece of pipe insulation around the end to absorb the shock.

http://66.206.15.241/hmimgs/medicusbat.gif

[jsiggy]

thanks for the answer. I know if it made and impact on you then it must be good.

I'll have the boys try it. I do think the rope would work very well also.

rw

My only complaint on the rope is that different pieces of the same type of rope seem to swing slightly differently. I recently made three of these - basically all identical - and yet I'd top the ball with one of the three on every swing unless I realized which one I had and adjusted for it... couldn't ever figure out why.

On the otherhand, as you can imagine, pushing a rope causes a lot of problems. :D

[jsiggy]

I put a piece of pipe insulation around the end to absorb the shock.


Good idea... thanks 444.

(Though I will say that a couple of good whacks to my back really facilitated my motor learning process adapting to a top hand release... but it might reduce it's effectiveness for some of the kids I work with.)

[4for4]

Good idea... thanks 444.

(Though I will say that a couple of good whacks to my back really facilitated my motor learning process adapting to a top hand release... but it might reduce it's effectiveness for some of the kids I work with.)

I hear ya. I had to adapt mine cause my kids wouldn't stop crying. Sheesh.

[ragweed]

I'm going to build one of these. Any rule of thumb as to where to cut the bat? I understand you are cutting the bat "out" and not adding length.

RGWD

[retkag]

Whoooooooooooooooooa. WOW!

We just finished our first "Medicus" lesson.

We hit off the Swing-A-Way in the basement. First couple of swings he wrapped the bat around the cords so bad that it took forever to untangle it.
Then, he finally figured out what medicus requires. Got the feeling of the swing. Memorized it best he could.

We then went to the cage and he had the best bp session of his life.

We have learned a valuable lesson. We didn't think he was pushing his arms.....well, medicus proved differently.

And......the best......he had to ask me if he was cheating (cheating while timing the machine). Why? Because he said he had so much more time than he used to. Why? Because he let the shoulder rotation take over as opposed to rotating, then pushing, then getting eaten up by the pitch.

Another interesting point is he says he feels quicker the other way and slower this way. Why? Because the load of the bat on the shoulder rotation feels slower than the unencumbered turn of the body without connection. That unencumbered turn without connection feels quick. Makes sense. It is. But, you can't hit that way. The body flys open and leaves the bat. No bat, no load, feels quicker. Yet, by the time he flew open, then pushed with the hands, the ball would be on him. Felt quick, yet gets jammed and had trouble with timing. A very valuable piece of information on how the body "fools" you. It gives you a wrong read. You have to be sharp to figure out what is going on. Compare that to the "slow" feel which is a turning body with a connected bat that STARTS ROTATING IMMEDIATELY instead of after you've flown open and pushed your hands. The fact that it starts rotating immediately is why it is actually quicker even though it feels slower. And, make sure you understand that when I say "slow feel" I don't mean it's slow. What I mean is it feels slow COMPARED TO the way he was doing it before. The slower feel is right. The quicker feel is wrong. Damn that body sending "funny" reads to the brain.

Very interesting session.

I also need to add that watching the Mr. Englishbey video of him hitting the ball off a tee over 250' with one arm played a major role in our "ah ha" moment.

This is a great post IMO and one a lot of people should take note of. If your swing feels like it always has it is probably wrong.

retkag

[Ohfor]

Had a brief conversation with Steve E about this and the summary of it is....

The new swing has the barrel going fast. A good thing.

The old swing has the body going fast. Not a good thing if the barrel isn't going fast.

In the past, we were trying to quicken the body. Now, we're trying to quicken the barrel.

[swingbuster]

The fact that it starts rotating immediately is why it is actually quicker even though it feels slower.

Early spatial connection? hummmmmmmmm vs late for spinning swing



The slower feel is right. The quicker feel is wrong. Damn that body sending "funny" reads to the brain.

Quick swing vs bat speed through leverages....it is a funny thing...enjoy

[Ohfor]

Hey Eddie.............EDDIE HASKEL!!

Please post your BHUT swing with a medicus bat.

lol

[swingbuster]

medicus bat.

Gee Mrs Cleaver that thing looks like it could hurt Wally and the Beave.

[bluke1]

Maybe it is necessary to hit off a tee. I can't do that right now, but I've had everybody at work swing this thing (people with no training whatsoever). It was made just like the pictures from page 1 of this trhead, and the thing has not broken down during any swing! I would just like to know why. I think maybe I've screwed up somewhere. Any help would be appreciated.

[Ohfor]

You'll get your answer when you hit off a tee.

[map]

Ohfor, Just curious about your experience with the medicus bat. Have you been able to quantify an improvement in batspeed and reaction time after training with this? Logically,this would seem to follow since you and your son feel he is rotating more quickly and maintaining better connection. Just wondering since I''m about ready to take the chopsaw to one of my old bats. Thanks, Mark

[bluke1]

Ohfer,

Thanks for the quick response. I expected that to be the case.

[Ohfor]

Ohfor, Just curious about your experience with the medicus bat. Have you been able to quantify an improvement in batspeed and reaction time after training with this? Logically,this would seem to follow since you and your son feel he is rotating more quickly and maintaining better connection. Just wondering since I''m about ready to take the chopsaw to one of my old bats. Thanks, Mark

I don't have a batspeed or reaction time measuring device. I did at one time. In fact I waited several months for it. ;) And, I sold it to someone who had waited over a year for his to be repaired. No one would return his calls.

But, I didn't find it anymore useful than the Personal Pitcher. (Unless you feel like bragging about your son's batspeed). On the personal pitcher, a light comes on, warning you of the imminent pitch, you load, then it pitches, then you swing.

With the reaction trainer, the light comes on, you load, another light comes on (simulating the pitch) and you swing. Then it measures your speed and reaction time.

So, one gives you the measurement. One gives you feedback by how well you hit the ball.

I found it much easier to get the kid to hit off the personal pitcher than swing in front of the reaction trainer.

Therefore, I can not recite any numbers.

I can tell you that at the cage we go to, we have them crank it up as fast as it will throw. They tell us it is high 80's. I might believe 85.

Anyway, at the same cage, same speed, he has much improved both the percentage of well hit balls and the quality of those hits. And, the video looks like he's improving.

Also, he has almost gotten rid of the "pull off the ball swing" that I posted and asked about a while ago. If you're a setpro guy you'll know which one it was. It was the one Nyman claims to have the answer to but won't share it. It used to appear as he got into his "better, better, harder, harder, faster, faster, quicker, quicker mode". Which is the mode that starts to break him down after several successful swings by trying to do things better/faster than his level of development allows.

Anyway, a long answer to a short question. No I don't have any batspeed readings................and don't really see a need for them.

Know a guy whose batspeed was over 100mph..........he couldn't hit.

Know another kid, on a team I coached in 2003. One of the slowest batspeeds on the team. Best hitter we had. Drove the ball in the gaps. He knew how to swing. The others just cut loose.

[swingbuster]

Know another kid, on a team I coached in 2003. One of the slowest batspeeds on the team. Best hitter we had. Drove the ball in the gaps. He knew how to swing. The others just cut loose.

Swinging the bat vs focusing the energy

[jsiggy]

I'm going to build one of these. Any rule of thumb as to where to cut the bat? I understand you are cutting the bat "out" and not adding length.

RGWD

I took the photo of the metalwood bat and used the same ratios.

[chesspirate]

I...used the same ratios.

Care to share with the class?

[jsiggy]

Care to share with the class?

Sure - I really wasn't trying to force anyone else to do the math, just didn't have the bat or numbers in front of me. :)

Ratios I used were 52% and 65% of the bat. So, for a 34" bat, I cut at 17-3/4" on the handle and 22" , leaving 12" sweet spot (i.e., removed 4-1/4" for the eyehooks/link).

The amount to cut out depends on the hardware you buy. I don't recall the exact sizes of the eyehooks or link I used - I just found some fairly heavy duty ones at the local Home Depot.

[Jevan]

I built one the same way using the approximate metalwood ratio. Used a 30-inch Louisville Slugger. Handle end is about 18 3/4", eye screws and link are about 4 inches. Total bat length is about 34 inches. Hope it helps.

Thx for the insulation idea Tim. I also have a padded vest that I slip on.:crazy

Jim

[TrojanSkipper]

Fellas: Do you think it would be a good idea to make a short medicus (about 24-27") and then just use it as a bottom hand drill??? I do worry about some of my young guys clobbering themselves in the back...

[wogdoggy]

What if you get the exact same results swinging the hinged bat as you would a regular bat.after making one I found it no more difficult or different than swinging a regular bat.both good and bad swings are produced with both.what exactly are we looking for swinging this contration?:confused:

[chesspirate]

My big question (since i made one last night) is how to start exactly. Getting in my stance and then loading and swinging from there seems kinda awkward with the bat head all 'limp' and all. Allthough, i think it will work out okay, i'm dying to see a clip of somebody using it, good or bad, just to see it.

[wogdoggy]

just swing it like you normally do...and i'd bet you'll produce the same results as with your solid bat..still wondering what this does or improves or tells ya?

[jsiggy]

just swing it like you normally do...and i'd bet you'll produce the same results as with your solid bat..still wondering what this does or improves or tells ya?

I can only give my experiences which so far have been pretty good.


My daughter can feel the difference when she is pushing (rear arm) much more readily with this bat. We use it with 2-arm and open-top hand swings. Definitely helps connection short-term - regular swings right afterward are much better connected.

I used with two freshman boys who were taught hands to the ball and swing down for years. The bat head had little power at impact... more noticeable to them than swinging a regular bat.

Had a 11 yr old girl who used the rope (bat was too heavy)... she was able to understand the swing plane perpendicular to the spine being more powerful quickly with it's feedback vs. trying to convince her.

Have you purposely taken bad swings to feel the difference? Swing with arms or down while staying upright and see what you feel.

The worse the swing, the more this device (or the rope) makes it evident. So it seems it's great for use with younger kids (caveat being watch out for the follow-through).

[Ohfor]

I believe it's quite possible that a young hitter that struggles may not benefit from the medicus bat. The medicus exposes a certain kind of problem. I don't think everyone has that problem. A bad or struggling hitter can have a myriad of problems. Doesn't have to be the one that medicus reveals. Therefore, they may swing it and not see the value in it. But, it's worth an old cracked bat and $5.00 worth of hardware to rule in or out whether your hitter is suffering from the problem.

And, if he/she is, it will be immediately exposed...........and I might add, almost as immediately fixed.

[jsiggy]

I believe it's quite possible that a young hitter that struggles may not benefit from the medicus bat. The medicus exposes a certain kind of problem. I don't think everyone has that problem. A bad or struggling hitter can have a myriad of problems. Doesn't have to be the one that medicus reveals.

Interesting. Maybe related to this...

For the stand tall, swing down, hands to the ball guys - they could more easily tell they weren't getting power to the bat head with the medicus. (And were somewhat irritated that a 15-yr old girl demonstrating it to them was.) But neither was able to figure out how to change their swing using the medicus to improve things much. So while it showed their problem clearly, it seems they're too far off from a good swing for it to help them get to the solution?

[wogdoggy]

so its more likely to expose a linear move or a downward path...

both of my boys and myself hit pickles off a tee and had very nice results.no picklejokes please.:laugh

[Ohfor]

Interesting. Maybe related to this...

For the stand tall, swing down, hands to the ball guys - they could more easily tell they weren't getting power to the bat head with the medicus. (And were somewhat irritated that a 15-yr old girl demonstrating it to them was.) But neither was able to figure out how to change their swing using the medicus to improve things much. So while it showed their problem clearly, it seems they're too far off from a good swing for it to help them get to the solution?

Are you asking what I was alluding to? Or....How can they not see their "medicus exposed" problem and use the feedback to correct it? I think I can answer them. In the second question, they are interpreting the feedback wrong. Just like I mentioned earlier. Medicus made us, our body, feel slower. Yet, at the same time, the barrel was moving faster. They read that slower body as wrong....yet, it's right. I think (my opinion) it is directly related to the old saying, "good hitters slow things down". For the life of me I couldn't make that happen although I had experienced it a time or two in my life. I liked it. But, couldn't duplicate it......Now I can.

But, I still think, as woggy or a couple of others have posted, that it's quite possbile for a less than great, or struggling hitter, to already have connection like medicus teaches, and not understand what we get excited about.

Maybe his swing is long. Maybe he drags the bat. Maybe he has timing issues. Maybe his rotation isn't optimal. Maybe he disconnects for pitch location. Maybe he doesn't understand the value of posture, etc etc.

But for those who had/have connection problems, Mr. Medicus is a real good tool.

[RobV]

I agree.

Things we are trying to fix is a lot of early disconnection (leading with rear elbow i.e. bat drag, hands moving first etc.). Basically a real long swing.

My son, even though he can't describe very well what he is feeling, he does say that after using the medicus bat, a regular wood bat feels so much easier, and faster to swing. His swing looks like it is one move moreso now (rather than seeing the bat and hands move, then hips/shoulders rotate).

I wont say it is a cure all, but I feel we've made a lot of progress in the last week, than we had in the last couple months.

We'll se what happens in a week or so when the season starts. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.;)

[chesspirate]

Even though i made one the other night, i haven't used it yet to hit anything.
I'll be trying it out this evening with at least one of my buddies and i'll chime in later.

[swingbuster]

medicus bat...find the bat barrel, create the whip, Bonds top hand ( when used at release not launch correctly) BHUT action that can help create this feel of pop, stop tugging the knob all the way through the swing, focus the energy,


DING DONG...bells ringing and lights coming on.. Finally, something smart enough to communicate with Ohfer. Two eye bolts and a bat cut into....it finally clicked


Things we are trying to fix is a lot of early disconnection (leading with rear elbow i.e. bat drag, hands moving first etc.). Basically a real long swing.

Rob...the rear elbow is hooked to the top hand and it is leading the swing for your son and 1000s more . You must put it in an unleveraged position and it cannot do that anymore. Pronate it, lift the barrel to a weightless position, and bring the lead elbow down. Learn how to send the hands back the right way not just an up and away push...


They must have all PM to you and said I was crazy and don't try that as your sons genetic potential would be destroyed by playing like the best players in the world. He will be in another town with kids before you know it...listen to other options as you know the problem but rotation is not going to fix it. He is rotating his heart out now and he looks better but nothing has really changed mechanically yet

[Ohfor]

I believe we have a "promise" of clips.

That's a step.

[tominct]

Whoooooooooooooooooa. WOW!

We just finished our first "Medicus" lesson.

We hit off the Swing-A-Way in the basement. First couple of swings he wrapped the bat around the cords so bad that it took forever to untangle it.
Then, he finally figured out what medicus requires. Got the feeling of the swing. Memorized it best he could.

We then went to the cage and he had the best bp session of his life.

We have learned a valuable lesson. We didn't think he was pushing his arms.....well, medicus proved differently.

And......the best......he had to ask me if he was cheating (cheating while timing the machine). Why? Because he said he had so much more time than he used to. Why? Because he let the shoulder rotation take over as opposed to rotating, then pushing, then getting eaten up by the pitch.

Another interesting point is he says he feels quicker the other way and slower this way. Why? Because the load of the bat on the shoulder rotation feels slower than the unencumbered turn of the body without connection. That unencumbered turn without connection feels quick. Makes sense. It is. But, you can't hit that way. The body flys open and leaves the bat. No bat, no load, feels quicker. Yet, by the time he flew open, then pushed with the hands, the ball would be on him. Felt quick, yet gets jammed and had trouble with timing. A very valuable piece of information on how the body "fools" you. It gives you a wrong read. You have to be sharp to figure out what is going on. Compare that to the "slow" feel which is a turning body with a connected bat that STARTS ROTATING IMMEDIATELY instead of after you've flown open and pushed your hands. The fact that it starts rotating immediately is why it is actually quicker even though it feels slower. And, make sure you understand that when I say "slow feel" I don't mean it's slow. What I mean is it feels slow COMPARED TO the way he was doing it before. The slower feel is right. The quicker feel is wrong. Damn that body sending "funny" reads to the brain.

Very interesting session.

I also need to add that watching the Mr. Englishbey video of him hitting the ball off a tee over 250' with one arm played a major role in our "ah ha" moment.

So I should take my son's wooden tee-ball bat (he's 8 with major connection issues) and make one of these bats? Seems easy enough.

[tominct]

I made one of these devices with my son's old wooden tee-ball bat. I then took it into the basement and hit a few off the tee with it. Needless to say the bat drapes over the shoulder, this is supposed to happen I presume. I stayed connected and hit the ball squarely off the tee, but I also hit the ball fairly squarely off the tee when I deliberately disconnected and cast my swing. I have no clips yet to show, but I would like some feedback from people who have used such a device about what I should expect.

Thanks,

Tom

[tominct]

But, it's worth an old cracked bat and $5.00 worth of hardware to rule in or out whether your hitter is suffering from the problem.

And, if he/she is, it will be immediately exposed...........and I might add, almost as immediately fixed.

Is the most significant problem, in your opinion Ohfor, one of disconnecting?

[tominct]

Is the most significant problem, in your opinion Ohfor, one of disconnecting?

See your earlier posts, my bad.....:o

[CoachZee]

After reading these posts, I just had to try it. I went in my basement and found my 30 year old cracked baseball bat (don't ask me why I even kept it that long). I sawed it down and made my Medicus Bat. I also went out and bought some rope just in case. After having the bat head hit me in the back several times, I decided to use the rope at practice.

It was really interesting watching my girls trying to hit the ball off a tee with the rope several were very, very frustrated. I then explained how to hit the ball with a circular hand path and some got it some didn't. What seemed to work best was having the girls use Steve's hammer drill and then try the rope again. That is what I intend to use in the future.

A couple of girls got hit by the end of the rope. One finished her swing very high and got it in the face and one slapped her back pretty hard. No welts thank goodness. I was afraid it might add new meaning to "whipping" them into shape.

[Ohfor]

If you simply release the top hand, you will not hit yourself in the head.

I think you still can get the jist of it even if you don't normally release your top hand.

I need to get a piece of rope.

Can anyone give me the specs of the rope so if I go to Home Depot, or wherever you get this, I can properly explain what I'm looking for.

[CoachZee]

If you simply release the top hand, you will not hit yourself in the head.

I think you still can get the jist of it even if you don't normally release your top hand.

I need to get a piece of rope.

Can anyone give me the specs of the rope so if I go to Home Depot, or wherever you get this, I can properly explain what I'm looking for.

I think JSiggy used a 1 1/2 inch manillar rope. Home Depot only sold a 3/4 inch. I ended up at a construction supply store and bought a 1" 3 feet long for $2. I just put duct tape far enough up for the grip and a little at the top to keep the rope from fraying just like the pictures on the first page of this post.

[jsiggy]

Can anyone give me the specs of the rope so if I go to Home Depot, or wherever you get this, I can properly explain what I'm looking for.


I found the rope at a "specialty" hardware store. Home Depot/Lowe's didn't have large enough. 1-1/2" manilla rope was enough of a description. Searching ebay for "1-1/2" manilla rope" will give photos samples such as here (http://cgi.ebay.com/NAUTICAL-ROPE-1-1-2-MANILA-Yard-Dock-Home-Manilla_W0QQitemZ7752823688QQcategoryZ2034QQssPage NameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem). I think it was sold .79/ft.


It was really interesting watching my girls trying to hit the ball off a tee with the rope several were very, very frustrated. I then explained how to hit the ball with a circular hand path and some got it some didn't. What seemed to work best was having the girls use Steve's hammer drill and then try the rope again. That is what I intend to use in the future.

A couple of girls got hit by the end of the rope. One finished her swing very high and got it in the face and one slapped her back pretty hard. No welts thank goodness. I was afraid it might add new meaning to "whipping" them into shape.


The rope does not swing well without a circular hand path. Very good for the hands to the ball kids. But Coach Zee is correct on getting hit by the rope. Hurts a lot less than the medicus bat though! Still I took a slap in the face which didn't feel too good. I'd recommend kids wearing a helmet until you see they are comfortable with the top hand release for the rope too.


I think JSiggy used a 1 1/2 inch manillar rope. Home Depot only sold a 3/4 inch. I ended up at a construction supply store and bought a 1" 3 feet long for $2. I just put duct tape far enough up for the grip and a little at the top to keep the rope from fraying just like the pictures on the first page of this post.

I tried smaller rope initially (3/4")... the larger 1-1/2" manilla rope works much better IMO as it's weight is closer to a bat and balls will fly a bit, so you get better feedback for well hit balls.

I can't recall the name of the tape I used... was in the electrical tape section of hardware store and looks kind of like electrical tape but is slightly sticky on the outside too. It mentions being used for bats. Duct tape worked too but the grip didn't feel as good.

[chesspirate]

I'm a tad frustrated. (Sorry i didn't chime in earlier, long weekend and such) but i played with the medicus bat i made and let two of my friends try it out and we must have missed something.

In dry swinging the thing we all were wondering what exactly we were supposed to be feeling. One of my friends is a 'pusher' of the hands, the other one a little less so, i like to think i'm not so bad, but video proves to me that i do push into contact.

Anyway, as Fungo hates (i'm pretty poor now so i'll probably have no other option than to use the tee) we were in the cages and I said "what the hell" i'm gonna use this bad boy in the cage! After two misses, i got into a couple (3 or 4?) and then decided to go back to my regular cage bat, couldn't tell much of a difference, same went for my buddies. They gave up on it, but i was a tad more persistent and tried it again, started to use my hands a lot more and got that bad boy to whip in front of me. Unfortunately it took quite a while to overcome that, and i think i left that session worse off than i came into it.

Again, i must be missing something! Any advice from anyone that has had success (ohfor, i'm looking in your direction) and maybee some anecdotal advice as well, i spent the time and money on this thing and want to get some benefit out of it. Thanks

[Ohfor]

I'm a tad frustrated. (Sorry i didn't chime in earlier, long weekend and such) but i played with the medicus bat i made and let two of my friends try it out and we must have missed something.

In dry swinging the thing we all were wondering what exactly we were supposed to be feeling. One of my friends is a 'pusher' of the hands, the other one a little less so, i like to think i'm not so bad, but video proves to me that i do push into contact.

Anyway, as Fungo hates (i'm pretty poor now so i'll probably have no other option than to use the tee) we were in the cages and I said "what the hell" i'm gonna use this bad boy in the cage! After two misses, i got into a couple (3 or 4?) and then decided to go back to my regular cage bat, couldn't tell much of a difference, same went for my buddies. They gave up on it, but i was a tad more persistent and tried it again, started to use my hands a lot more and got that bad boy to whip in front of me. Unfortunately it took quite a while to overcome that, and i think i left that session worse off than i came into it.

Again, i must be missing something! Any advice from anyone that has had success (ohfor, i'm looking in your direction) and maybee some anecdotal advice as well, i spent the time and money on this thing and want to get some benefit out of it. Thanks

Hard to pick up exactly what you're saying. But, I should start with the fact that I said a couple of times that it may not help you. If not, to me it means the things medicus teaches, you're already doing. Move on.

But, then you say you are arm pushers and I have trouble reconciling that you can push your arms and make medicus work for you.

So, I'm not sure what to tell you. I suspect you aren't doing it properly. You mentioned dry swings and cage work. Did you hit off a tee? Is your body rotation and connection causing the barrel to arc and "catch up" to the rest of the body considerably before contact? Is your lead arm "turned on"?

Things to think about.

[retkag]

I suggest you go out on a tee and start there. You want to be able to hit the ball at least 60 feet so you can see how it flies. When you can do this consistantly you will begin to understand what it is you should be feeling.

Ohfer is right the balls you really get into will feel as though you were turning slow but the ball really takes off and you will be surprised.

Try no stride swings first where your posture is set to just turn into the ball.

retkag

[egvfastpitch]

Does anybody have a swing clip using the medicus bat or nautical rope? I'd like to use the video in a side-by-side of our hitters using the same tool.

Brian

[tom.guerry]

one arm lead arm or 2 hand medicus can give the feel of staying connected to the "rotational" component of the swing. Nyman believes this is all there is. The back arm is just along for the ride and providing stability.

Mankin recognizes the role of the back arm and applying torque which is "REAL" in my opinion and is essential for a quick high level swing.

mankins backward chaining approach uses initially one arm back arm drills with the pathfinder,then adds the lead arm. This is a much more accurate way of simulating the "real swing".

Donny explains well how the earlier two armed loading is done.

These are not add ons to "PCR" in my opinion, but need to be taught from the beginning.

http://www.batspeed.com/media/WhipHigh.wmv

[MannyRamirez2006]

I see this thread only lasted about 3 weeks. I am curious about this hinge bat?? Any opinions???? Should I have a go at it??

[Jake Patterson]

I see this thread only lasted about 3 weeks. I am curious about this hinge bat?? Any opinions???? Should I have a go at it??


Speaking of which.... Where has jsiggy gone?? Anyone know?
jake

[4for4]

Speaking of which.... Where has jsiggy gone?? Anyone know?
jake

He broke his leg so we had to shoot him. ;)

[tom.guerry]

hinged bat or articulated bat or hose or steering wheel knob/"pathfinder" (Mankin) are ways on teaching a connected/CHP/pendulum/whip handpath.

High level bb requires handle torque applied to amplify this connection to allow quicker acceleration further back in the handpath as demonstrated and described by Mankin.

You want to learn a good CHP, but also one that can be enhanced by handle torque. Mankin has good demo clips with the "pathfinder":

http://www.batspeed.com/media/WhipHigh.wmv

this demonstrates a torque only arm type swing which can benefit from superlite bats



http://www.batspeed.com/media/THTHigh.wmv

this shows earlier batspeeed when adding torque via top hand to CHP




http://www.batspeed.com/media/Rose_Keys_to_CHP.wmv

this shows some keys to a good CHP in Pete Rose, including:

1-maintaining power V
2-keeping front shoulder turning up to contact
3-retaining lead arm angle long enough (the famous "BM Hinge angle"), anlge at lead elbow,not lead wrist in this case




http://www.batspeed.com/messageboard/74320.html

A full text explanation:

The number one reason rotational mechanics generates greater bat speed than linear mechanics is due to the path the hands take during the swing. In a good rotational swing, about 50% of the bat speed developed come from a circular path of the hands. Both types of mechanics rely on torque to accelerate the bat-head, but with a straighter hand-path (linear mechanics), torque (pushing the back-hand past the lead-hand) must account for 80% (or more) of the bat-speed.

When doing a Swing Review of a batter who is having trouble adapting to rotational mechanics, I usually note that although the batter rotates his or her body, they still extend their hands in a straighter path. Using a straighter hand-path and trying to accelerate the bat-head with Top and Bottom-hand-torque (the rotational method of applying torque to the bat) just does not work efficiently.

Without the bat-head acceleration that comes from the circular-hand-path, the batter quickly falls behind the power curve and must extend the back-arm in an attempt to catch up. There is no way a batter can use Bottom-hand-torque if the back-arm extends. Therefore, it is imperative that your son practices and develops the correct hand-path for rotational mechanics. Once he can accelerate the bat-head using only the path of the hands (no torque applied), he can start adding to that bat speed by adding Top and Bottom-hand-torque.

In my previous post, I pointed out that getting the body to rotate does not assure you of great bat speed. The key to transferring body rotation into bat-head acceleration is to develope a productive circular-hand-path (CHP). Once you generate good bat speed from the hand-path alone, then torque is added to reach maximum bat speed. But in order to determine how much bat speed is coming from the path of your hands alone (how much body rotation is being transferred into bat speed), you must first isolate torque from the swing (which is the push/pull action of the hands). One way to get the feel of a torque-free swing is by swinging a rubber hose at a ball on a tee. If torque is applied, the hose will bend just above the hands and will add little power to accelerating the end of the hose. You will soon learn that thrusting the hands forward produces poor results. --- Instead, learn to swing, or fling, the hose in a circle (like a ball on the end of a rope) instead of shoving the hands forward (A to B) and the hose will not bend. When translated into swinging a bat, use the same technique for creating a CHP - swing or fling the bat head, rather than shoving the bat handle at the ball. Note, torque is a very important part of the swing, but the first step is to learn a CHP, so that torque can be applied correctly.

To practice a CHP, I like setting up the heavy-bag and having the student swing a light bat with a steering-wheel-knob attached (as shown on the instructional video). First, with the top-hand only, the batter's hand will start up close to the back-shoulder. As the batter rotates, the forearm (of the top hand) will rotate down to horizontal, maintaining a circular path. The back-elbow will be back at the batter’s side at contact (in the slot). This circular hand-path creates maximum bat-head acceleration and is the same hand-path the batter will use with both hands on the bat. Once a proper circular hand-path is developed, the batter must learn to add torque (top hand (THT) and bottom hand (BHT)) without altering the circular hand-path. This procedure - applying torque - is explained in the instructional video/DVD.

Although some batters practice and develop CHP, BHT and THT, they never reach full potential because their swing is "too mechanical" (too much tension in the hands and arms). In order to progress, the batter must learn to acquire a good loose launch position and initiate the swing with the correct forces (top-hand holding or pulling back) and then just let CHP, THT and BHT happen. You cannot think your way through a good swing. --- Remember: "A ballistic motion, once initiated, produces trajectories that can only be efficiently changed at its margins." So just set up the swing correctly, stay tension free, and rotate. When you get it right, the bat-head will fling through the contact zone at great speed on a clean plane.