Throwing a curveball at 12 years old

[BuzzBaseball]

What do you experienced guys think about 12 year old pitchers throwing a curveball? Personally, I am against it. However, there are an overwhelming number of kids this age throwing curveballs in tournaments and my son's regular league. My son throws a fastball and change-up. He throws them well, his fastball measured 71mph on the Jugs and he has very good control. His change-up is seldom called upon but he can throw it well and the difference in speed from his fastball is almost where it needs to be...

However, most of the other pitchers on his team are throwing a curveball. I have not allowed my son to throw it, not even to learn how to grip it. The pressure is just now starting to subtlely surface to throw a curveball. Am I being to overprotective by not allowing any talk or instruction of the curveball?? Is there a better option than a curveball? Maybe a split finger? I have heard that can just as damaging to a young arm.

My gut feeling is to just stay the course and not allow any curveball instruction at all until he is at least 14 or 15. Any thoughts.....

[Bluesteve32]

I tend to agree. You son may be pitching high school and some of the other just may have sore arms.

[BadKarma]

My brother was throwing a curveball at 12 years old, and it didn't hurt him at all. He was already one of the harder throwers in the league, and that helped that much more. Now, he didn't go overboard with it, but would use it on occassion. He pitched all the way through College as well, so again, I don't think it hurt him at all. I believe the majority of the arm trouble comes with overuse of the curveball. I don't see anything wrong with teaching him how to throw the curveball, as long as he understands to use it in moderation, and not to go overboard in practicing it.

Having said all of that, I would advise you to go with your gut. Everybody is different, just because my brother, and other kids, can handle throwing curveballs at a young age does not mean that everyone can handle it. If he is pitching effectively, no need to fix what ain't broke. Definately get him throwing curves at 15 or 16 though. In High School and beyond those fastballs tend to travel long and far off of a good hitters bat :crazy

[Sultan_1895-1948]

What do you experienced guys think about 12 year old pitchers throwing a curveball? Personally, I am against it. However, there are an overwhelming number of kids this age throwing curveballs in tournaments and my son's regular league. My son throws a fastball and change-up. He throws them well, his fastball measured 71mph on the Jugs and he has very good control. His change-up is seldom called upon but he can throw it well and the difference in speed from his fastball is almost where it needs to be...

However, most of the other pitchers on his team are throwing a curveball. I have not allowed my son to throw it, not even to learn how to grip it. The pressure is just now starting to subtlely surface to throw a curveball. Am I being to overprotective by not allowing any talk or instruction of the curveball?? Is there a better option than a curveball? Maybe a split finger? I have heard that can just as damaging to a young arm.

My gut feeling is to just stay the course and not allow any curveball instruction at all until he is at least 14 or 15. Any thoughts.....

I threw curves that young and no arm troubles from it.

The only advice I would give you, is that by making something taboo, or something he "can't have," you are in a sense making it more intriguing for him.

If other kids are throwing it, he's eventually going to want to try and throw it and become even more curious about it. You might as well show him the proper way to throw it; but also explain to him why it's important he waits until he's older before he adds it as a regular part of his repetoire (if that's how you feel). Maybe it's just me, but I would want to make sure he knows the right way, cause it's probably gonna happen one way or another.

In terms of danger, a circle changeup could be pretty dangerous as well. You never mentioned what type of change he throws, but most who try to throw the circle change really exaggerate the inverse wrist movement, trying to get the ball to move away from a lefty or in to a right just a bit. If he keeps his same arm slot, and doesn't over-do it, it shouldn't be a problem, but nah, I see no reason for not throwing a curve as long as you show him the proper way.

[chesspirate]

I agree somewhat with the above, overuse is the real problem, and misuse is the killer.

Knowing how to throw a curveball properly and not 'snappin' or 'turning' the wrist with extra force.

There is also another way to throw a curve that some youth coaches taught a while ago. They figured, if the kids were gonna throw it anyway, might as well teach them a way that they wont kill themselves. This pitch worked well for me when i was his age, eventually i had to learn a 'real' curve but this might be a nice bridge in the gap. Go a head and think about throwing a football, where instead of in baseball, your fingers on top, think of throwing a spiral pass with the fingers on the side, use all four fingers to grip one side with the thumb on the opposite side. The simple idea or 'cue' of throwing a football takes out the thoughts of 'snapping' and all that stuff, the grip will slow the ball down and the football sideways throw should create enough spin to make a decent 12 to 6 curve.

The horseshue of the ball should be roughly in the same diretion as the 'u' formed by your hand when in front of you after a 'football' throw. I enjoyed using this pitch very much, and because you don't really change much, you still try and throw it hard. Easing up doesn't help it

[East Coast Bat Co]

I would say stay away from it until he is at least 14 years old. However, if you are going to throw it, make sure his arm isn't getting extended at the elbow. Make sure it has some flex in it. This will help absorb the pressure put on the arm.

[wogdoggy]

whats the reason to encourage a 12 yr old kid to throw that pitch?You guys need to win that badly?12 yr old baseball guys nothing really matters....gotta love these chest pounding fathers teaching their twelve year old the hook.

[Stealth]

"There is also another way to throw a curve that some youth coaches taught a while ago. They figured, if the kids were gonna throw it anyway, might as well teach them a way that they wont kill themselves. This pitch worked well for me when i was his age, eventually i had to learn a 'real' curve but this might be a nice bridge in the gap. Go a head and think about throwing a football, where instead of in baseball, your fingers on top, think of throwing a spiral pass with the fingers on the side, use all four fingers to grip one side with the thumb on the opposite side. The simple idea or 'cue' of throwing a football takes out the thoughts of 'snapping' and all that stuff, the grip will slow the ball down and the football sideways throw should create enough spin to make a decent 12 to 6 curve. "

This works well - we have three kids on our 11 year old team that throw this pitch. Try it! Think of it like holding a coke can, point your fingers and thumb toward the plate and throw normal. It works really well and is easy to learn at this age.

[BuzzBaseball]

I think I'll I'll just make my kid stick with the fastball and changeup for a couple more years. If the coach doesn't like it my son can play elsewhere.

[riverhawk]

I just graduated from college, where I was in the rotation for all 4 years. During those four years I worked on developing a change up every off season and was unsuccessful in doing so. I had a good circle change when I was a kid, but once I started throwing a curve (when I was 13 or 14, I forget), I pretty much stopped throwing it. My advice would be to keep him throwing the change as his second pitch for the next few years, not because a curve will hurt his arm, but because it is, in my belief, a much more effective pitch.

[XFactor]

Just to reinterate what most have already said (some good advice too, it makes me so proud *tear*)

Why, if he is throwing 71 mph fastballs with good control and has a change up he can locate and it has good movement, would you need a curveball?

He can strike out just as many people with fastball/change up then just using a curveball.
When he gets to the HS age, would you rather have a pitcher that just knows how to throw a curveball or one who knows how to pitch? Changing speeds, changing location. Being able to hit his spots 80 out of 100 times instead of 60 of 100.

Usually kids who rely on the curveball at that age tend not to want to learn how to master their control of a fastball or a change up until they are just a specialty pitcher, someone who is good for about 1 inning and thats about it.

Good luck with you n your son! I hope he kicks some butt

[Riverdog]

Being able to throw a curveball is a status thing. Lots of kids can and the others talk about it. The kid in the league with the best curveball is a hero and is looked up to. Your kid will try to throw a curveball as soon as you're not looking.
My advise is to teach him the proper way to throw it and do your best to regulate how much he uses it. There's few things more harmful to the arm than a LL curveball. On the other hand, if it's properly thrown, it shouldn't hurt.
If you're not absolutely certain what the correct way is, find someone in your league with a pitching background and get him to help.
Like some of these other guys, I threw curveballs when I was very young. I played some pretty serious baseball and now, several years later, can still throw BP for 20 hitters without a break. My dad was a pitcher and he taught me the proper way.
Be afraid of what he doesn't know, not what he does know.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Being able to throw a curveball is a status thing. Lots of kids can and the others talk about it. The kid in the league with the best curveball is a hero and is looked up to. Your kid will try to throw a curveball as soon as you're not looking.
My advise is to teach him the proper way to throw it and do your best to regulate how much he uses it.

Very sound advice imo. Better off teaching him the proper way to throw it and explain to him your reasons for not wanting him to use it this early in his "career." At least then the curiosity factor is out of his system. Think of it as cracking a beer with him so he gets a taste and doesn't go off to a party and get totally trashed. Ok, bad example. Seriously though, it's in our nature to want what we can't have, and the more you tell him no, the more he'll want to eventually do it, most likely whether you're around or not.

[Ursa Major]

For 12 year olds, throwing a curve is like having an Ipod and a cellphone; ya lose face if you don't have one. And, I agree, if you're not there all the time, they're going to throw 'em in warmups anyway.

If he's throwing seventy-one -- and is this in LL, with the mound at 46? Geez, a change-up oughta do it. You're doing most kids a favor by throwing a curve if you're throwing that fast. And few kids that age can throw it without telegraphing it.

That football 12-to-6 is pretty easy on the arm and is pretty effective. But definitely, throw the change more often and save the curve for two strike pitches to the top three or four guys in the opponent's lineup. Maybe show it early to get 'em thinking, and it'll make the high heater that much harder to catch up with.

[wogdoggy]

Yesterday, 05:21 AM
Riverdog
Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 32

Being able to throw a curveball is a status thing. Lots of kids can and the others talk about it. The kid in the league with the best curveball is a hero and is looked up to. Your kid will try to throw a curveball as soon as you're not looking.
My advise is to teach him the proper way to throw it and do your best to regulate how much he uses it. There's few things more harmful to the arm than a LL curveball. On the other hand, if it's properly thrown, it shouldn't hurt.
If you're not absolutely certain what the correct way is, find someone in your league with a pitching background and get him to help.
Like some of these other guys, I threw curveballs when I was very young. I played some pretty serious baseball and now, several years later, can still throw BP for 20 hitters without a break. My dad was a pitcher and he taught me the proper way.
Be afraid of what he doesn't know, not what he does know.
__________________

,,Just look at your kids bone structure if he's a little immature for his age,WHY take the chance,growth plates etc.who knows?problem is the kids will try it,I just keep telling him its bad for his arm till he gets older.We have alot of baseball left.its not worth it yet.

[TRIPxCORE]

Try maybe teaching him the "football" curve. If you don't like getting him into the curve so early, maybe try working with him on a slider. I know its still a breaking pitch but to my understanding it can be less intrusive on the arm.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Try maybe teaching him the "football" curve. If you don't like getting him into the curve so early, maybe try working with him on a slider. I know its still a breaking pitch but to my understanding it can be less intrusive on the arm.

I think a true slider could be more damaging on a kids arm. It's basically a sharp slurve that breaks on two plains like Lidge's and Krod's. What about going with a cutter. No more stress on the arm than a fastball, just placing more pressure on the middle finger. Could be a devastating pitch if he learns to control it at a young age. I'd stay away from any type of inverse 2 seamer though, that could be as bad as a curve on his arm.

[Big_Mac]

i learned how to throw a curveball when i was 10 but i never really started throwing it in games til last year (im 13 now). i have never really had any pain in my shoulder because of throwing it but i don't really overuse it. the first pitch other then a fastball i learned was a change-up but i think if your throwing your curve properly, you should be good.

[andrewlevino]

in little league in ct they just banned the curveball

[wogdoggy]

in little league in ct they just banned the curveball


good luck enforcing that one.:laugh

[Chris O'Leary]

Is there a better option than a curveball? Maybe a split finger? I have heard that can just as damaging to a young arm.

I think you are right to be cautious.

How about a knuckle curve? It achieves the same result (bites due to topspin) but that spin is achieved in a completely different manner (via a flick of the index or middle finger).

How about a screwball?

Also, I think that much of the negative publicity about the splitter is incorrect (but you have to have big enough hands to be able to throw it).

[Fireballer]

My Father forbids me to throw a Split finger fastball Fearing my arm will be destroyed... all i can throw really is the main three

Fast
Change
Curve

i tried throwing a split finger before and i can throw an excellent one.. i throw it like i throw my fastball only that i change my grip..... should i really stop throwing it?

[Chris O'Leary]

i tried throwing a split finger before and i can throw an excellent one.. i throw it like i throw my fastball only that i change my grip..... should i really stop throwing it?

I believe that both the split finger fastball and the screwball have acquired reputations for being dangerous that are not deserved.

Many people say "Well _____ threw a screwballer/splitter and he ended up with arm problems." However, more often than not the damage that was done to that pitcher's arm was done by something else (e.g. their curveball).

[bbjunkie]

My 12 yo son has played around with the curve in the past, but never had much success with it until this year. I taught him the correct way to throw it, but he reserves it for the best hitters with a 2 strike count. Most of the batters in our league he can get with a decent FB and a so-so change. We figured out this year that just taking a little off the curve, it drops off the table just before the plate. A couple games ago a buddy of his was at bat. He's a strong hitter and he was looking to hit it hard. The boy threw the curve and the kid took a mighty swing as the ball bounced off the plate. The batter dropped his bat and grabbed his head with both hands in mock frustration. He walked away shaking his head.

To sum up, it is a devastating pitch if thrown correctly and used in moderation. I've read a lot on the subject, and the experts generally think that it is no more harmful then a FB to young throwers if done right. I think the real culprits are overuse and breaking balls that require twisting motions.

BTW, in last year's LLWS some kids were reportedly throwing 70% curves. At a gut level, that seems like way too much.

[jimmiemac]

The 4 top pitchers in college last season were asked when they first threw a curveball and three didn't until HS and one didn't until college. Guess which one was drafted the highest? Lance Broadway of TCU was the first college pitcher selected and he threw his first curveball as a sophmore in college.

[Chris O'Leary]

The 4 top pitchers in college last season were asked when they first threw a curveball and three didn't until HS and one didn't until college. Guess which one was drafted the highest? Lance Broadway of TCU was the first college pitcher selected and he threw his first curveball as a sophmore in college.

Trevor Hoffman's dad wouldn't let him throw a curveball until he was in college.

[Ohfor]

Neither would mine. Big deal.

[TG Coach]

It's not throwing a curve that hurts kid's arms. It's throwing a curveball incorrectly and too frequently that hurts them.

A lot of kids teach themselves how to throw a curve. It's usually incorrect. They tend to come from the side at 9/3 or 10/4. A properly thrown curve is thrown curve is thrown 12/6.

Another concern with throwing a curve, is a coach who can't recognize when the pitcher's mechanics are beginning to fail in the game.

I've seen plenty of kids with poor throwing mechanics who are more likely to hurt themselves throwing blazing fastballs than a kid throwing fifteen curves a game.

But when it all comes down to it, I've only personally witnessed four kids injuring their arm. One was very poor mechanics. He didn't throw a curve. The other three were just pitching way too frequently. Two of them didn't throw a curve.

[TG Coach]

My son has a mild case of O-S. He plays through it. Sometimes he'll ice after playing. It's also important not to overuse the knees. There are kids now playing way too many games. Normal growing pains are turning into chronic injuries from wear and tear.

If a kid is experiencing more frequent pain, O-S should be monitored closely. There are growth plates that can suffer permanant damage.

Note: If anyone's kid has pain in his heels, it's the same kind of condition but called Severs. My son passed through that a few years ago. In addition to ice and rest, get him out of his cleats, basketball shoes, whatever, as soon as he's done playing. Has anyone noticed more kids are wearing flip flops after games. Even the sporting goods catalogs list them in the equipment section now.

[Jake Patterson]

I think I'll I'll just make my kid stick with the fastball and changeup for a couple more years. If the coach doesn't like it my son can play elsewhere.

Buzz, it has more to do with the players physical maturity than his age. Some players are not ready to throw a curve until they are 16 or 17 while others may be ready at eleven. If you go to www.drmikemarshall.com he conducted some pretty extensive research on pre-pubescent- pubescent and post-pubescent pitchers. He makes taht study available online. Worth reading.

[Mark H]

Anything by Marshall is suspect.

[Jake Patterson]

Anything by Marshall is suspect.

His body development research was sound. I verified with a pediatrician and several physical therapists. His pitching techniques are a different discussion and should not be used to confuse this thread.

The discussion we should avoid is, "At what age should a player throw a curve?" It has more to do with his body and physical maturity than it has chronological age. Marshall's research speaks to this quite well.