View Full Version : 2nd Greatest Base-Stealer of the 1980s
baseball junkie
07-19-2006, 04:51 AM
Reading Rickey's Thread about base stealing, I noticed a lot of names from the 1980s were mentioned. So forget Lou Brock, Billy Hamilton, Ty Cobb, Honus Wagner, Eddie Collins and Joe Morgan and let's just focus on the 1980s.
Obviously Rickey Henderson was the greatest base stealer of the decade, but who comes in at No. 2? Maybe it's only me but I find this interesting because I remember when the stolen base was valued and it meant something to steal 100 bases in a year.
Soley focusing on base stealing and not considering any other factors who was the best base stealer in the 1980s who's name was not Rickey Henderson?
I assume most of us are old enough to remember watching these guys play.
Captain Cold Nose
07-19-2006, 05:33 AM
Coleman was a stolen base machine. The others posted good and sometimes great numbers in that department for a longer period of time, but in the mid to late 80's, some argued Coleman was even better than Henderson in that department. Of course, time has told a different story.
Honus Wagner
07-19-2006, 06:51 AM
otis my man nixon
yankillaz
07-19-2006, 09:16 AM
How come nobody mentiones Tim Raines??? Coleman was the fastest player in the 80's, but c'mon!!! Raines won the sb title from 1981-1984 (in 1981 he stole 71 bases in 313 ab's in 1981!!! The best percentages of abs/sb per player in the 80's go like this, with 50 or more bases stolen:
Rickey Henderson: 4.123 (1982)
Tim Raines: 4.408 (1981)
Ron LeFlore: 5.371 (1980)
Vince Coleman: 5.607 (1986)
Eric Davis: 5.845 (1986)
Raines was also second to Henderson in steals for the decade.
Imapotato
07-19-2006, 09:20 AM
I think Tim Raines was better then Rickey
Raines was alot smarter that's for sure....but of course "rock" was on rock...so I am sure that helped
Sockeye
07-24-2006, 10:00 AM
3 straight seasons of 100+ steals. Gotta go with Vince Coleman.
brett
07-24-2006, 04:49 PM
Raines is almost certainly the second best base stealer in history next to Henderson.
In the 80s, Raines stole 583 but was only caught 90 times (86.6%).
Henderson stole 838 but was caught 190 times (81.5%).
Wilson stole 451 and was CS 85 times: 84.1%.
Wilson is interesting because he had an amazing percentage, especially in '79-'80. I remember several times in which they ruled a steal as "indifference" simply because the catcher KNEW he had no shot and didn't want to risk the throw.
After '80, the a few things started to happen. First, Wilson did not strike out very much and he was running out close plays at first all the time-many infield hits, many times reaching on errors and often just making the throwout close. He also was so fast from first to home that the Royals held him back a lot to keep him from getting beat up on all the slides, and of course he led the league in triples 6 times and had more inside the park homeruns than anyone in recent times (I think 7 years in a row he had 1).
Anyway, as for Raines, Henderson had 255 more steals in the decade but was caught 100 more times. 255 for 355 (the difference) would only be a 71.8% rate which is not much above the break even level (63-64% for the 80s).
-Kyle-
07-24-2006, 06:51 PM
Raines is almost certainly the second best base stealer in history next to Henderson.
In the 80s, Raines stole 583 but was only caught 90 times (86.6%).
Henderson stole 838 but was caught 190 times (81.5%).
Wilson stole 451 and was CS 85 times: 84.1%.
Wilson is interesting because he had an amazing percentage, especially in '79-'80. I remember several times in which they ruled a steal as "indifference" simply because the catcher KNEW he had no shot and didn't want to risk the throw.
After '80, the a few things started to happen. First, Wilson did not strike out very much and he was running out close plays at first all the time-many infield hits, many times reaching on errors and often just making the throwout close. He also was so fast from first to home that the Royals held him back a lot to keep him from getting beat up on all the slides, and of course he led the league in triples 6 times and had more inside the park homeruns than anyone in recent times (I think 7 years in a row he had 1).
Anyway, as for Raines, Henderson had 255 more steals in the decade but was caught 100 more times. 255 for 355 (the difference) would only be a 71.8% rate which is not much above the break even level (63-64% for the 80s).
That bolded part pretty much convinced me. More steals, higher percentage, Raines beats Wilson.
ElHalo
07-24-2006, 06:58 PM
Obviously Rickey Henderson was the greatest base stealer of the decade.
Actually, since the thread was asking for the second best base stealer of the 80's, I had to vote "other," for Rickey Henderson.
In my opinion, Vince Coleman is the best stealer of all time. Coleman had 39.22 SB's for every 100 times he got on base in his career. For Henderson, that's 26.31; for Raines, it's 20.32. He might not have been good at much else, but for just straight base stealing, nobody tops Coleman, ever.
hubkittel
07-27-2006, 12:32 PM
coleman led the NL in SB every year from 1985 to 1990. the three straight years of 100+ SB. also had a year when he stole 50 straight bases. raines was obviously the better player, one of the greatest lead off men of all time, but coleman was THE stolen base guy of the NL in the 80's. btw, coleman wasn't the fastest guy in the league-he wasn't even the fastest guy on his own team. that honor belongs to willie mcgee.
KCGHOST
07-27-2006, 12:59 PM
To me Raines was the best thief of the 1980's (583/90/86.6%), so I have Rickey second (838/190/81.5%).
Honorable mention to Vince Coleman (472/98/82.8%) and Willie Wilson (451/85/84.1%)
Baseball Guru
07-27-2006, 01:27 PM
How come nobody mentiones Tim Raines??? Coleman was the fastest player in the 80's, but c'mon!!! Raines won the sb title from 1981-1984 (in 1981 he stole 71 bases in 313 ab's in 1981!!! The best percentages of abs/sb per player in the 80's go like this, with 50 or more bases stolen:
Rickey Henderson: 4.123 (1982)
Tim Raines: 4.408 (1981)
Ron LeFlore: 5.371 (1980)
Vince Coleman: 5.607 (1986)
Eric Davis: 5.845 (1986)
Raines was also second to Henderson in steals for the decade.
Great point on Raines..
Here are the leaders for the 80's:
Rickey Henderson... 838
Tim Raines... 583
Vince Coleman... 472
Willie Wilson... 451
Ozzie Smith... 364
Steve Sax... 333
Lonnie Smith... 331
Brett Butler... 307
Mookie Wilson... 293
Dave Collins... 284
That being said, I think Vince Coleman was the best... He has the 3rd, 4th and 6th highest total SB's post 1900 in history....
He was also #3 for the decade and only played in half the decade... Hell, if he could have gotten on base more, he realy could've challenged Henderson's post 1900 record and maybe even Hugh Nicol's all-time record...
What was Ron LeFlore's deal? What ended his career?
baseball junkie
07-28-2006, 01:19 AM
Come on, not even one single vote for Willie Wilson? Wilson was a base-stealing machine.
Imapotato
07-28-2006, 01:39 AM
Actually, since the thread was asking for the second best base stealer of the 80's, I had to vote "other," for Rickey Henderson.
In my opinion, Vince Coleman is the best stealer of all time. Coleman had 39.22 SB's for every 100 times he got on base in his career. For Henderson, that's 26.31; for Raines, it's 20.32. He might not have been good at much else, but for just straight base stealing, nobody tops Coleman, ever.
Well I know it's not the 80's but what about a guy like Max Carey who took off at the most opportune time?