Unbelievable Little League Story.

[ESPNFan]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/rick_reilly/08/07/reilly0814/index.html

I'd love to hear what the take on this is here.

[The Dude]

That's disgusting. Especially since he knew exactly what happened to him.

[Zito75]

Sounds like the same coach who was paying players to bean weaker players on his own team... That's just not right!

[Elvis]

Not cool at all and not very sporting. Kind of like shooting fish in a barrell and calling it sport. I wouldn't have walked him to face the cancer patient. Imagine the cancer patient was a pitcher and they kept bunting on him. Some will do anything to win even if it's cruel and unkind. Great lesson in humanity to teach these kids.

[Mike D.]

The line "I'd have done the same thing. It's just good baseball strategy" is very telling.

Does anyone else find it wrong that when we're talking about 9 and 10 year olds, that "baseball strategy" comes into play at all?

If you're a coach of little kids, and you're playing to win, you should go buy a copy of MLB 2006 for Playstation, and leave little kids alone. It's not about you and your manager fantasy, it's about the kids having fun.

Ugh...disgusts me.

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

Even if the kid didn't have cancer, I would have ordered my pitcher to pitch to the best batter. It is a GAME for crying out loud. Everyone should have a chance to bat. They were in the lead, so probably they would have won it anyway.

I can only think of one word to describe this coach: PATHETIC

[Honus Wagner Rules]

If the cancer kid was so weak that he could have severely injured himself why is he even playing in the PONY League? The parents can't have it both ways. They want their son to be treat normal but also be be treated "special" when it counts. Tha'ts hyocrisy! Also if baseball is supposed to be fun and not about winning then why is there a championship game? Does this league keep stadings and stats? Isn't that against the spirit of "fun"? People are so PC that they don't understand that kids love to compete. I know I did at that age. I wanted to win ever game and crush my opponent everytime. I wanted to take the pitcher deep every time. I played baseball because it was fun and I wanted to win. One year I played on a Little League team that went 2-21-1. Do you think that was much "fun" for our team? :o

[ivylover]

Coach=big *******! even if the poor kid was batting .400 i would have pitched to the slugger.

[willie24fan]

That just smells like a bad move to walk the batter to get to the next batter. At least go after the batter, its not about Barry Bonds and the World Series.

However, instead of us "lucky/normal" people answering, the people who should be giving the insight are those who are somewhat disabled, how would they want to be treated? Just like any other player? Well, then walk the guy in front and pitch to me, that's why I'm playing right?

Yes, you want to win, but not at the cost of embarrasing someone. Especially not blatantly with an intentional walk in a Pony League game. Championship game, whatever, its still 9 and 10 year olds. You win by going at their best player, not picking on the weakest link.

[PopTop]

Honus, I played on a team that went 0-17-1, struck out with the winning run on third in the game we tied. I still have a lot of great memories about that team and can barely remember some of the details about other teams I played on that did win.

I'm in agreement here with Honus. If this kid is so sick he can barely make it through the day, he probably shouldn't be playing in a league that is competitve like this one. I'm not a heartless person, and can take a lot of pity on this kid and his family. And at the end of the story, it sounds like this will only make him a bit tougher and more resolute.

I'm curious about something here: Did the Red Sox only have nine players? We only read about one at bat here. Did the sick kid bat before this? Was he subbed in, did he start? We don't know the answer to that just reading this story. If he was subbed in, then part of me thinks his coach might also be rethinking his 'strategy' to not start the sick kid, then pull him for another and not put the sick kid, or his team, in this position to begin with.

[Say Hey]

If the cancer kid was so weak that he could have severely injured himself why is he even playing in the PONY League? The parents can't have it both ways. They want their son to be treat normal but also be be treated "special" when it counts. Tha'ts hyocrisy! Also if baseball is supposed to be fun and not about winning then why is there a championship game? Does this league keep stadings and stats? Isn't that against the spirit of "fun"? People are so PC that they don't understand that kids love to compete. I know I did at that age. I wanted to win ever game and crush my opponent everytime. I wanted to take the pitcher deep every time. I played baseball because it was fun and I wanted to win. One year I played on a Little League team that went 2-21-1. Do you think that was much "fun" for our team? :o

I agree 100%.

[ESPNFan]

Just my opinion but I was never in a "competative" league where there was a cap on runs scored during an inning. Also there probably isnt much thought given to "baseball stratagey" in the league if batting a sickly child is your idea of giving protection to your teams best hitter. And I don't know about any of you guys experienced it but I can't remember a Intentional walk given to anyone until I hit Babe Ruth League.

[538280]

There's a lot of hypocrisy (like HWR said) coming from the parents in that story. They want their kid to be treated normal, and yet are upset when the coach makes a "normal" play (isn't that what happens in real baseball games? Yes!). They basically want him to be treated normal but then at the end want them to treat him special. Sports should be about competition, regardless of age.

[ESPNFan]

There's a lot of hypocrisy (like HWR said) coming from the parents in that story. They want their kid to be treated normal, and yet are upset when the coach makes a "normal" play (isn't that what happens in real baseball games? Yes!). They basically want him to be treated normal but then at the end want them to treat him special. Sports should be about competition, regardless of age.

Trying to treat a disabled child normaly is one thing. Don't you think taking advantage of obvious disability to secure victory is something else entirely?

[RuthMayBond]

Quote from the article:

Farr thinks the Sox coach is a hypocrite. He points out that all coaches put their worst fielder in rightfield and try to steal on the weakest catchers. "Isn't that strategy?" he asks. "Isn't that trying to win? Do we let the kid feel like he's a winner by having the whole league play easy on him?"

[Elvis]

True Story:

In Brooklyn, New York, Chush is a school that caters
to learning-disabled children. Some children remain in
Chush for their entire school career, while others can
be mainstreamed into conventional school. At a Chush
fundraiser dinner, the father of a Chush child
delivered a speech that would never be forgotten by
all who attended. After praising the school and its
dedicated staff, he cried out, "Where is the
perfection in my son, Shaya" Everything God does is
done with perfection. But my child cannot understand
things as other children do. My child cannot remember
facts and figures as other children do. Where is God's
perfection?" The audience was shocked by the question,
pained by the father's anguish, and stilled by the
piercing query. "I believe," the father answered,
"that when God brings a child like this into the
world, the perfection that he seeks is in the way
people react to this child."

He then told the following story about his son, Shaya.

One afternoon, Shaya and his father walked past a park
where some boys Shaya knew were playing baseball.
Shaya asked, "Do you think they'll let me play?"
Shaya's father knew that his son was not at all
athletic and that most boys would not want him on
their team. But Shaya's father understood that if his
son was chosen to play, it would give him a sense of
belonging. Shaya's father approached one of the boys
on the field and asked if Shaya could play. The boy
looked around for guidance from his teammates. Getting
none, he took matters into his own hands and said,
"We're losing by six runs, and the game is in the
eighth inning. I guess he can be on our team, and
we'll try to put him up in the ninth inning."

Shaya's father was ecstatic as Shaya smiled broadly.
Shaya was told to put on a glove and go out to play in
center field. In the bottom of the eighth inning,
Shaya's team scored a few runs but was still behind by
three. In the bottom of the ninth inning, Shaya's team
scored again, and now had two outs and the bases
loaded, with the potential winning run on base. Shaya
was scheduled to be up. Would the team actually let
Shaya bat at this juncture and give away their chance
to win the game?

Surprisingly, Shaya was given the bat. Everyone knew
that it was all but impossible because Shaya didn't
even know how to hold the bat, let alone hit with it.
However, as Shaya stepped up to the plate, the pitcher
moved a few steps to lob the ball in softly so Shaya
could at least be able to make contact. The first
pitch came in, and Shaya swung clumsily and missed.
One of Shaya's teammates came up to Shaya, and
together they held the bat and faced the pitcher
waiting for the next pitch. The pitcher again took a
few steps forward to toss the ball softly toward
Shaya. As the pitcher came in, Shaya and his teammate
swung the bat, and together they hit a slow ground
ball to the pitcher. The pitcher picked up the soft
grounder and could easily have thrown the ball to the
first baseman. Shaya would have been out and that
would have ended the game. Instead, the pitcher took
the ball and threw it on a high arc to right field far
beyond the reach of the first baseman. Everyone
started yelling, "Shaya, run to first. Run to first."
Never in his life had Shaya run to first. He scampered
down the baseline wide-eyed and startled. By the time
he reached first base, the right fielder had the ball.
He could have thrown the ball to the second baseman
who would tag out Shaya, who was still running!!

But the right field understood what the pitcher's
intentions were, so he threw the ball high and far
over the third baseman's head. Everyone yelled, "Run
to second, run to second!" Shaya ran toward second
base as the runners ahead of him deliriously circled
the bases toward home. As Shaya reached second base,
the opposing shortstop turned him in the direction of
third base, and shouted, "Run to third." As Shaya
rounded third, the boys from both teams ran behind him
screaming, "Shaya, run home." Shaya ran home, stepped
on home plate, and all 18 boys lifted him on their
shoulders and made him the hero, as he had just hit a
'grand slam' and won the game for his team.

"That day," said the father softly with tears now
rolling down his face, "those 18 boys reached their
level of God's perfection".

----------------

It seems to me that Little League's first priority should be to build character, not win at all cost.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Trying to treat a disabled child normaly is one thing. Don't you think taking advantage of obvious disability to secure victory is something else entirely?
Well, I liked the attitude of the sickly kid. Instead of pouting about it he went to work trying to improve his hitting so that one day he might be the guy that gets walked. The kid "gets it"! And the parents do not. :(



By the way, the next morning, Romney woke up and decided to do something about what happened to him.

"I'm going to work on my batting," he told his dad. "Then maybe someday I'll be the one they walk."
:clapping

[PopTop]

Just my opinion but I was never in a "competative" league where there was a cap on runs scored during an inning. Also there probably isnt much thought given to "baseball stratagey" in the league if batting a sickly child is your idea of giving protection to your teams best hitter. And I don't know about any of you guys experienced it but I can't remember a Intentional walk given to anyone until I hit Babe Ruth League.Different organizations and different age groups have different rules. In our LL, we don't even keep standings until the 'majors' level, which is predominantly 11-12 year olds. I never even played in a dad's pitch league growing up. Our Pee Wee division was kid's pitch, period. It's not that way any longer.

All I'm saying here is we're supposed to judge a coach or coaching staff by an article written to tug on our hearts and get a lot of hits on the 'net. We don't know the whole story. What happened during the rest of the season when this kid took the field or came to bat?

If a kid like this signed up for our league, I can tell you that we would try and hash out the situation BEFORE he ever took the field. And we might ultimately have to make the decision that he simply could not play in the majors level because there was too much risk of him getting hurt. The fact the town is split over this incident, according to the story, suggests to me that there's a whole lot more to this story than one dadgum at bat.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

True Story:

In Brooklyn, New York, Chush is a school that caters
to learning-disabled children. Some children remain in
Chush for their entire school career, while others can
be mainstreamed into conventional school. At a Chush
fundraiser dinner, the father of a Chush child
delivered a speech that would never be forgotten by
all who attended. After praising the school and its
dedicated staff, he cried out, "Where is the
perfection in my son, Shaya" Everything God does is
done with perfection. But my child cannot understand
things as other children do. My child cannot remember
facts and figures as other children do. Where is God's
perfection?" The audience was shocked by the question,
pained by the father's anguish, and stilled by the
piercing query. "I believe," the father answered,
"that when God brings a child like this into the
world, the perfection that he seeks is in the way
people react to this child."

He then told the following story about his son, Shaya.

One afternoon, Shaya and his father walked past a park
where some boys Shaya knew were playing baseball.
Shaya asked, "Do you think they'll let me play?"
Shaya's father knew that his son was not at all
athletic and that most boys would not want him on
their team. But Shaya's father understood that if his
son was chosen to play, it would give him a sense of
belonging. Shaya's father approached one of the boys
on the field and asked if Shaya could play. The boy
looked around for guidance from his teammates. Getting
none, he took matters into his own hands and said,
"We're losing by six runs, and the game is in the
eighth inning. I guess he can be on our team, and
we'll try to put him up in the ninth inning."

Shaya's father was ecstatic as Shaya smiled broadly.
Shaya was told to put on a glove and go out to play in
center field. In the bottom of the eighth inning,
Shaya's team scored a few runs but was still behind by
three. In the bottom of the ninth inning, Shaya's team
scored again, and now had two outs and the bases
loaded, with the potential winning run on base. Shaya
was scheduled to be up. Would the team actually let
Shaya bat at this juncture and give away their chance
to win the game?

Surprisingly, Shaya was given the bat. Everyone knew
that it was all but impossible because Shaya didn't
even know how to hold the bat, let alone hit with it.
However, as Shaya stepped up to the plate, the pitcher
moved a few steps to lob the ball in softly so Shaya
could at least be able to make contact. The first
pitch came in, and Shaya swung clumsily and missed.
One of Shaya's teammates came up to Shaya, and
together they held the bat and faced the pitcher
waiting for the next pitch. The pitcher again took a
few steps forward to toss the ball softly toward
Shaya. As the pitcher came in, Shaya and his teammate
swung the bat, and together they hit a slow ground
ball to the pitcher. The pitcher picked up the soft
grounder and could easily have thrown the ball to the
first baseman. Shaya would have been out and that
would have ended the game. Instead, the pitcher took
the ball and threw it on a high arc to right field far
beyond the reach of the first baseman. Everyone
started yelling, "Shaya, run to first. Run to first."
Never in his life had Shaya run to first. He scampered
down the baseline wide-eyed and startled. By the time
he reached first base, the right fielder had the ball.
He could have thrown the ball to the second baseman
who would tag out Shaya, who was still running!!

But the right field understood what the pitcher's
intentions were, so he threw the ball high and far
over the third baseman's head. Everyone yelled, "Run
to second, run to second!" Shaya ran toward second
base as the runners ahead of him deliriously circled
the bases toward home. As Shaya reached second base,
the opposing shortstop turned him in the direction of
third base, and shouted, "Run to third." As Shaya
rounded third, the boys from both teams ran behind him
screaming, "Shaya, run home." Shaya ran home, stepped
on home plate, and all 18 boys lifted him on their
shoulders and made him the hero, as he had just hit a
'grand slam' and won the game for his team.

"That day," said the father softly with tears now
rolling down his face, "those 18 boys reached their
level of God's perfection".

----------------

It seems to me that Little League's first priority should be to build character, not win at all cost.
Great story. :clapping

[Mike D.]

Great story, Elvis.

I think between that story and the one in ESPN, the moral of the story is obvious...adults suck.

I think organized sports are awful. When I was a kid (and I'm only 30), I played sandlot ball..and everyone played, everyone hit, and even when problems arose, we found ways around it to keep the game going.

[Astro]

Pretty sad, I do not remember EVER seeing an intentional walk when I played little league

[Ubiquitous]

Late to the party, but I don't the blame the coach. The kids parents probably wanted their son to have as normal a childhood as he could. Situations like these where it is possible to fail are normal for children. You can't put your kid out there in normal society and want everybody to treat him the same only when it favors your kid. Sometimes being treated normally is going to go against your child. That is life, you can yell and complain and treat your kid like a victim and those conspiring against him as the villains but that won't do any good for your child nor will it help him grow up to be a well adjusted adult. It appears that Romney did what I would hope someone in his position would do which is work harder to become better. Which if this hadn't happened, if they had given him special treatment, he would have less desire to improve himself. The actions of those who wish to protect him from hurtful feelings would have been doing him a disservice.

[Mike D.]

To those who seem to think the coaches are in the right here...you really think coaches should be calling for intentional walks in little league games so they can win games?

Why? Wouldn't it be better for the pitcher to pitch to the big hitter, and either win or lose based on his abilities? Isn't it better for the big hitter to do the same? Whatever happened, the players woudn't have been crushed, and they'd have won or lost on their own merit, not on the workings of some coach who thinks he's Tony LaRussa or something.

I think the less adults have to do with kids playing (other than making sure they're safe), the better.

[blslivewire]

This coach is a peice of trash. Strategy my ass. They're kids. I hope his wife bitches at him non stop for a year(like I have to hope).

All this tough love talk is ridiculous. They have the rest of their lives to be treated like dirt in the real world, let them feel ok about themselves for 15 minutes when they're 10.


Does anyone think if the "best hitter" had been pitched too and won the game, that a 10 year old would second guess the coach about an intentional walk? IBBs don't happen in little league anyway. And if the kids were upset, they'll get over it and learn a lesson.


When I was 10ish and in little league, I hated to lose too. Hell, I hated games ending in a tie.
But then I grew up.

If you want to take a competetive approach to life, fine. But that doesn't mean you have to take that attitude into a game. Especially into one where your job is to teach impressionable children. If this coach is such a great strategist, let Jim Leyland step aside and he can take over a major league team and see how much Confusious here can teach us.

Treating someone who isn't as fortunate as you differently and-god forbid-helping them out isn't a sign of weakness, it's a sign of human decency-something this world and this culture severely lacks.

[Astro]

To those who seem to think the coaches are in the right here...you really think coaches should be calling for intentional walks in little league games so they can win games?

Why? Wouldn't it be better for the pitcher to pitch to the big hitter, and either win or lose based on his abilities? Isn't it better for the big hitter to do the same? Whatever happened, the players woudn't have been crushed, and they'd have won or lost on their own merit, not on the workings of some coach who thinks he's Tony LaRussa or something.

I think the less adults have to do with kids playing (other than making sure they're safe), the better.
The goal is to win, in any game.... while I think it is sad he walked him, it was, indeed, smart if you want to win...

I agree with Ubiquitos 100%, the way to avoid this happening dont let the kid play, if he wants to play you have to expect things like this

[Sliding Billy]

When I was a kid (and I'm only 30), I played sandlot ball..and everyone played, everyone hit, and even when problems arose, we found ways around it to keep the game going.
I'd been thinking almost exactly the same words as I'd been reading through some of the horror stories on the baseball fundamentals forum. There were two great things about sandlot ball: the one I appreciated at the time was that all day there weren't any grown-ups around. The one I appreciate now is that we had to choose up sides--sometimes with an odd number of players--decide disputed calls, when to quit and start over with new teams, all by ourselves. We all played very competitively, and some of us didn't even like one another very much, but as you say, we had to keep the game going, so we had our own conventions and intuitions about what was fair and not, and we relied on them. Never got much good as a ballplayer, but learned a lot about life.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

To those who seem to think the coaches are in the right here...you really think coaches should be calling for intentional walks in little league games so they can win games?
Then's what the point of playing a championship game which this was?



Why? Wouldn't it be better for the pitcher to pitch to the big hitter, and either win or lose based on his abilities? Isn't it better for the big hitter to do the same? Whatever happened, the players woudn't have been crushed, and they'd have won or lost on their own merit, not on the workings of some coach who thinks he's Tony LaRussa or something.
How about the kids who won? People keep accusing the coaches of trying to win "for themselves". What, the coach's team didn't deserve to win. Didi those kids work hard all summer to get to this point? Shouldn't the coach do all he can to help his kids do the best they can?



I think the less adults have to do with kids playing (other than making sure they're safe), the better.
I can agree with that.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Why are the adults so much more upset by this than the cancer kid? These adults should take a lesson from him. He's not pouting or giving interviews trashing the opposing coach for walking the other hitter to get to him. He took it in stide. Imagine that. He's not going to carry this stigma for the rest of his life. It's the upset adults that need to grow up. :rolleyes:

[Astro]

Why are the adults so much more upset by this than the cancer kid? These adults should take a lesson from him. He's not pouting or giving interviews trashing the opposing coach for walking the other hitter to get to him. He took it in stide. Imagine that. He's not going to carry this stigma for the rest of his life. It's the upset adults that need to grow up. :rolleyes:
Because people think they have a right to get upset over anything.... even tho they do not

[Imapotato]

The line "I'd have done the same thing. It's just good baseball strategy" is very telling.

Does anyone else find it wrong that when we're talking about 9 and 10 year olds, that "baseball strategy" comes into play at all?

If you're a coach of little kids, and you're playing to win, you should go buy a copy of MLB 2006 for Playstation, and leave little kids alone. It's not about you and your manager fantasy, it's about the kids having fun.

Ugh...disgusts me.

My thoughts exactly

Your are not a 'manager' in little league, you are a mentor to teach the game and get kids off of their vide games and learn the greatest game ever invented

No one should have an intentional walk in little league

and the kid with cancer SOBBED himself to sleep that night....that is ok with you??????

As for the kids

I don't recall one win, lose or tie in little league

I remember after the game, we got a free snowcone

[blslivewire]

Because people think they have a right to get upset over anything.... even tho they do not

Interesting. I know our current administration is having its way with our constituional rights but I did not know our own emotions are now regulated.

[Astro]

My thoughts exactly

Your are not a 'manager' in little league, you are a mentor to teach the game and get kids off of their vide games and learn the greatest game ever invented

No one should have an intentional walk in little league

and the kid with cancer SOBBED himself to sleep that night....that is ok with you??????

As for the kids

I don't recall one win, lose or tie in little league

I remember after the game, we got a free snowcone
It's life, read Ubi's post.....

Life isnt fair, not everyone can be happy.... there are winners and losers, the mentality many people have today of "Everyone's a winner" is not even close....

It is sad, yes, but it's life, life isnt always fair.... if you want to protect a child from the harsh realities of life, dont let him out... keep him inside his entire life then when they leave they can become exposed to reality....

[ESPNFan]

Why are the adults so much more upset by this than the cancer kid? These adults should take a lesson from him. He's not pouting or giving interviews trashing the opposing coach for walking the other hitter to get to him. He took it in stide. Imagine that. He's not going to carry this stigma for the rest of his life. It's the upset adults that need to grow up. :rolleyes:

Actually any Adult with an ounce of moral fiber would be upset that coaches of 9-10 year olds would put winning infront of victimizing a sickly child.

If Romney had come up with the game on the line and failed w/o the Intentional Walk, then thats life. Like I said before the baseball stratagy excuse is complete garbage. If their town league was anything like mine was for kids that age then there were no tryouts and every kid who wants to play plays. You go through the batting order and let the kids play. And parents who want their child to be treated normally are should be upset when another supposed adult decides to turn said inclusion in to an opportunity to victimize and single out for personal gain.

[Padday]

To everybody who says that the boy shouldn't have been playing if he was so weak, which do you think would be more cruel:

What happened to him in this article or...

Telling him that he can't play.

At that age it's all about equal opportunities for anybody who wants to play so singling out children and telling them they can't play because they aren't in good enough condition is going to affect a child much worse than one incident in a game.

Also, this incident could have been handled a lot better by the parents and coaches. Instead of bickering about whether it was right or not they should have been comforting and encouraging him. I'm sure that the reaction made would just have made him feel worse and the last thing a child with a disability needs is to have their disability put on display and paraded in public.

[ESPNFan]

It's life, read Ubi's post.....

Life isnt fair, not everyone can be happy.... there are winners and losers, the mentality many people have today of "Everyone's a winner" is not even close....

It is sad, yes, but it's life, life isnt always fair.... if you want to protect a child from the harsh realities of life, dont let him out... keep him inside his entire life then when they leave they can become exposed to reality....

Youth Baseball is not life.

Youth Baseball should be a diversion for him so he can enjoy being a kid, Not something to remind him that not only do you have cancer but adults, who should be caretakers of a fun activity and know better, will use it agisnt him and his team. That is unfair and unacceptable.

Life is what that child and his family have to deal with every time the bring him in for treatment TO KEEP HIM ALIVE.

Parents should not have to worry about protecting children from "harsh realities of life" when they send a 9 year old to play a ballgame.
And this kid knows more about "harsh realities" than god willing you I, or anyone we know and love ever will.

[Astro]

Youth Baseball is not life.

Youth Baseball should be a diversion for him so he can enjoy being a kid, Not something to remind him that not only do you have cancer but adults, who should be caretakers of a fun activity and know better, will use it agisnt him and his team. That is unfair and unacceptable.

Life is what that child and his family have to deal with every time the bring him in for treatment TO KEEP HIM ALIVE.

Parents should not have to worry about protecting children from "harsh realities of life" when they send a 9 year old to play a ballgame.
And this kid knows more about "harsh realities" than god willing you I, or anyone we know and love ever will.
He was playing baseball, he got up and he struck out.... how does that make the other coach's "villains"? Were they supposed to let him get a hit because he had cancer?

[Elvis]

He was playing baseball, he got up and he struck out.... how does that make the other coach's "villains"?

If you haven't figured that out by now then we can't tell you.

[Astro]

If you haven't figured that out by now then we can't tell you.
Dont get me wrong, I think it was a sad move... but if you did not want something like this to happen, then dont allow him to play.... and if something like this does happen, dont complain about it afterward, you knew what you were getting him into, and something like this should be expected

[Elvis]

Dont get me wrong, I think it was a sad move... but if you did not want something like this to happen, then dont allow him to play.... and if something like this does happen, dont complain about it afterward, you knew what you were getting him into, and something like this should be expected

It was the wrong thing to do. It's called sportsmanship. That's what little leagues should be about teaching - sportsmanship, character and fair play, not "let's win at all costs no matter who gets hurt".

[Padday]

Dont get me wrong, I think it was a sad move... but if you did not want something like this to happen, then dont allow him to play....
If you refer to my earlier post you'll see my view on this. It just doesn't seem right to deny a 9/10 year old the right to play baseball.

[ESPNFan]

Dont get me wrong, I think it was a sad move... but if you did not want something like this to happen, then dont allow him to play.... and if something like this does happen, dont complain about it afterward, you knew what you were getting him into, and something like this should be expected

Your kidding me right?

If you think something like this should be EXPECTED then your out of your mind.

His parents knew very well what they were getting him into when they signed him up for Little League. What they did not know was that there were adults who would deliberately target him for his health related lack of ability.
And lets not forget that these coaches also took an oportunity to shine away from the good player in an everyone plays league. At this level of baseball thats just sad. Let the kids decide the game themselves.

[Ubiquitous]

So lets say that the kid doesn't have cancer lets just say he is just some uncoordinated string bean they stick out in Right Field. Do we even hear about it? Nope. Is intentionally walking the kid ahead of him to get to the string bean right? Well probably a lot of you would say yes. But think about this, remember your own days in TBall and little league. Did you play every batter the same? Did you play every fielder the same? Did you try to hit it to the best fieler on the team or did you try to hit it towards the get picking his nose and looking into the stands? When some weak hitting uncoordinated little kid came up did you play him the same as the "big" kid? I'm willing to bet that if you played little league baseball at all or even pick up games you didn't treat everybody equally.


Finally I would like to add that we know next to nothing about this game and what actually happened. We honestly don't even know if it was a blatant intentional walk. All Reilly said was that they decided to walk "Jordan". We don't even know how Romney was used, For instance in our league our teams had about 14 or so kids in it near the end of the game the batting order would get thrown out the window so that kids could get at bats. It could very well be that Romney was sitting on the bench the entire game and because of the rule his coach had to put him in there that inning or the inning before. So it is quite possible that his own team wasn't even treating as utopically as you guys would wish. Bottom line is we only have Reilly's version and it doesn't have a lot of details but it has a lot of emotional manipulation.

[Padday]

So lets say that the kid doesn't have cancer lets just say he is just some uncoordinated string bean they stick out in Right Field. Do we even hear about it? Nope. Is intentionally walking the kid ahead of him to get to the string bean right? Well probably a lot of you would say yes. But think about this, remember your own days in TBall and little league. Did you play every batter the same? Did you play every fielder the same? Did you try to hit it to the best fieler on the team or did you try to hit it towards the get picking his nose and looking into the stands? When some weak hitting uncoordinated little kid came up did you play him the same as the "big" kid? I'm willing to bet that if you played little league baseball at all or even pick up games you didn't treat everybody equally.
I would agree that at one stage or another people tend to try to take advantage of weaknesses in players. But these tend to be heat of the moment type of decisions and compared to a premeditated choice by an adult coach who's supposed to be teaching good sportsmanship to young impressionable athletes, they don't seem that bad.

[wamby]

If I had been the opposing coach, I doubt if I would intentionally walk anyone at that level. This is moot, though, because I would never, ever coach youth baseball.

If I were that kid's coach, I would suck it up and try to explain to that kid that not everyone sees your condition as a crutch. I would not go so far as to say get used to it, however.

If I were the parents of a kid in that condition, I would be pretty leery of having him play in a competitive league like that. I would also be wishing that the other parents on both sides would shut up about it.

This actually sounds like a good life lesson for the kid. Nearly every kid gets taken advantage of in some way, what happened to this kid was just more public than others.

I've always that Youth baseball stinks, even when I played it. This story (if it's true) is another reason why.

[ESPNFan]

So lets say that the kid doesn't have cancer lets just say he is just some uncoordinated string bean they stick out in Right Field. Do we even hear about it? Nope. Is intentionally walking the kid ahead of him to get to the string bean right? Well probably a lot of you would say yes. But think about this, remember your own days in TBall and little league. Did you play every batter the same? Did you play every fielder the same? Did you try to hit it to the best fieler on the team or did you try to hit it towards the get picking his nose and looking into the stands? When some weak hitting uncoordinated little kid came up did you play him the same as the "big" kid? I'm willing to bet that if you played little league baseball at all or even pick up games you didn't treat everybody equally.


Finally I would like to add that we know next to nothing about this game and what actually happened. We honestly don't even know if it was a blatant intentional walk. All Reilly said was that they decided to walk "Jordan". We don't even know how Romney was used, For instance in our league our teams had about 14 or so kids in it near the end of the game the batting order would get thrown out the window so that kids could get at bats. It could very well be that Romney was sitting on the bench the entire game and because of the rule his coach had to put him in there that inning or the inning before. So it is quite possible that his own team wasn't even treating as utopically as you guys would wish. Bottom line is we only have Reilly's version and it doesn't have a lot of details but it has a lot of emotional manipulation.

Ubiquitous, me personally I honestly believe that at that age, unless its some type of select team, that the coaches should coach, teach and mentor the children and not insert themselves into game situations. Pitching around children in a league like this just shows how patheticly shallow the coaches are, reguardless of the health of the batter they are facing. The Children should decide the game, not adults living out their bigleague managerial fantasies. I understand and agree with your point about kids playing kids differently ,but you have to realise the difference between kids interacting and reacting to the abilites of the other kids, and an adults decision to not only deprive a child who excells a opportunity at success but to do so to capitalize on the disability of another kid.

As far as what actually happend in the game goes, we do only have Reilly's version but his description of the reactions of all who witnessed the walk would seem to imply that there was some type of blatant disrespect involved. If that truely is the case, such disgraceful behavior should warrent town officials to seriously question weather the coaches of that team should be allowed to coach or be in any position where they could be looked on as rolemodels.

[538280]

Ubiquitous, me personally I honestly believe that at that age, unless its some type of select team, that the coaches should coach, teach and mentor the children and not insert themselves into game situations. Pitching around children in a league like this just shows how patheticly shallow the coaches are, reguardless of the health of the batter they are facing. The Children should decide the game, not adults living out their bigleague managerial fantasies.

This is what I don't get. How are these coaches trying to live out their fantasies? They're just trying to win the championship game, probably just as much for the kids as for themsevles. Walking this kid Jordan to face Romney gave them almost a sure win (and championship) so they took it. This is not unfair, this is playing by the rules, and it's NOT them "living out their fantasies".


I understand and agree with your point about kids playing kids differently ,but you have to realise the difference between kids interacting and reacting to the abilites of the other kids, and an adults decision to not only deprive a child who excells a opportunity at success but to do so to capitalize on the disability of another kid.

Capitalizing so they can win? Maybe they should get a taste of the real world here, and make an actual baseball decision. I don't care what age these guys are, this is a championship game (meaning, since standings, etc are kept they're already making it competitive), and they should be playing to win.

When I play sports (or baseball), I play to win the game. It doesn't matter if the other guys suck. If I"m playing football, and on the other side the team gives the ball to a weak, sickly kid who can't run, what do you want me to do? Not tackle him behind the line for a 5 yard loss, and instead let him gain yards? It's the same type of situation.


As far as what actually happend in the game goes, we do only have Reilly's version but his description of the reactions of all who witnessed the walk would seem to imply that there was some type of blatant disrespect involved. If that truely is the case, such disgraceful behavior should warrent town officials to seriously question weather the coaches of that team should be allowed to coach or be in any position where they could be looked on as rolemodels.

Blatant disrespect? I know if I was on the other team (not Jordan or Romney's) I would be upset is they didn't walk Jordan.

[Padday]

This is what I don't get. How are these coaches trying to live out their fantasies? They're just trying to win the championship game, probably just as much for the kids as for themsevles. Walking this kid Jordan to face Romney gave them almost a sure win (and championship) so they took it. This is not unfair, this is playing by the rules, and it's NOT them "living out their fantasies".



Capitalizing so they can win? Maybe they should get a taste of the real world here, and make an actual baseball decision. I don't care what age these guys are, this is a championship game (meaning, since standings, etc are kept they're already making it competitive), and they should be playing to win.

When I play sports (or baseball), I play to win the game. It doesn't matter if the other guys suck. If I"m playing football, and on the other side the team gives the ball to a weak, sickly kid who can't run, what do you want me to do? Not tackle him behind the line for a 5 yard loss, and instead let him gain yards? It's the same type of situation.



Blatant disrespect? I know if I was on the other team (not Jordan or Romney's) I would be upset is they didn't walk Jordan.
It's not about the legality of the decision its the morality of the decision. We can all agree that it was the right choice in regards to a stratigic point of view, but at childhood level it's about what goes on on the field and the outcome of a game should be decided by how the children play.

And with your football scenario, I don't think it's the same thing. It's about the fact that he walked the player before and not the fact that he struck out this Romney kid.

[538280]

It's not about the legality of the decision its the morality of the decision we can all agree that it was the right choice in regards to a coaching and stratigic point of view, but at childhood level it's about what goes on on the field and the outcome of a game should be decided by how the children play.

In a championship game? You're going to play not to win in a championship game? By there being a championship game you're already saying you want competition and drive to win. Otherwise they wouldn't keep standings. Competition is what fuels the kids to play. As much as you may want it this way or try to make it this way, it's almost always going to be about winning and losing. I know, playing sports, that I could never be happy unless my team was doing all we can to win.

[Padday]

In a championship game? You're going to play not to win in a championship game? By there being a championship game you're already saying you want competition and drive to win. Otherwise they wouldn't keep standings. Competition is what fuels the kids to play. As much as you may want it this way or try to make it this way, it's almost always going to be about winning and losing. I know, playing sports, that I could never be happy unless my team was doing all we can to win.
I never said that you should play not to win but play to be fair and a good rolemodel in the case of the coach. At their level the game should be about learning about the game, learning about life, making friends, learning about good sportsmanship and most importantly about having fun and if you happen to win then that is an added bonus.

[Ubiquitous]

Again though we have no real idea how "Jordan" got walked. But let us ignore that and ask the question again. What if Romney doesn't have cancer? In fact what if Romney simply isn't as good as Jordan? What if Jordan is a really good player?

[Ubiquitous]

Would I intentionally walk a kid in the last inning with two outs and a runner on third? No, not at that level. The skill level of the kids involved makes it likely a steal of home on a miscatch of one of those intentional balls or even while Romney is up to bat likely. I would tell the pitcher to give Jordan nothing good to hit but I wouldn't want my pitcher trying to hit a moving target or my catcher moving while trying to catch.

[538280]

I never said that you should play not to win but play to be fair and a good rolemodel in the case of the coach. At their level the game should be about learning about the game, learning about life, making friends, learning about good sportsmanship and most importantly about having fun and if you happen to win then that is an added bonus.

Being a good role model? If I were on that team, and they didn't walk Jordan I wouldn't be happy with the coach for what he did.

Again, if it's about learning the game why are they having a championship game. Sports is about competition, not learning life lessons or making friends. I think we disagree on the meaning.

When I play, I play with good sportsmanship, not cheating or anything like that, but I also play, first and foremost, to win. And if that means I have to take advantage of someone else's weakness I would not stop at it. Would you object to a team applying a shift on that level? Throwing a curveball because they know a certain kid can't hit it? It sounds to me like you're against a team trying to win if they apply any sort of strategic element.

[Padday]

Again though we have no real idea how "Jordan" got walked. But let us ignore that and ask the question again. What if Romney doesn't have cancer? In fact what if Romney simply isn't as good as Jordan? What if Jordan is a really good player?
Good question and since nobody has answered the original question you asked I'd guess nobody would have made an uproar quite like this. I think though that these games should be left up to the children to decide and weaker children shouldn't be descriminated against especially (and I know I sound like a broken record now) by the coach who should be a rolemodel.

[Ubiquitous]

I never said that you should play not to win but play to be fair and a good rolemodel in the case of the coach. At their level the game should be about learning about the game, learning about life, making friends, learning about good sportsmanship and most importantly about having fun and if you happen to win then that is an added bonus.


Well I'm sure the kids on the winning team had fun, and I think everybody learned about the game. Don't pitch to the best hitters, pitch to the weaker ones. I also think that if the parents and opposing coaches hadn't thrown a hissy fit either most kids wouldn't have cared either. It would have been oh well we lost lets go get some ice cream. Or if you really want to protect the kids from harm there shouldn't have even been a championship game. It should have just been a regular season, who ever has the most wins gets the trophy. Or even better like some leagues everybody who participates gets a trophy regardless of record.

[Ubiquitous]

by the coach who should be a rolemodel.
But what does being a rolemodel mean? Was the coach fair? Did he cheat? Did he break the rules? And if it is unfair who is it unfair too? If it is unfair to Romney then every at bat of Romney's is unfair, his presence on the team is unfair to his team and the opposing team, and Romney should not have been there or some sort of special dispensation should have been given to him. For instance in one league I belonged to we had a handicapped kid who played and his at bats didn't count. He got to hit and play and nobody had to bite the bullet for him or get put in an awkward situation.

[Padday]

Again, if it's about learning the game why are they having a championship game. Sports is about competition, not learning life lessons or making friends. I think we disagree on the meaning.
Why can't learning the game and playing in a championship go together, after all you won't be able to play in one if you haven't learned the game. And by life lessons, I mean things like if your coach tells you that taking advantage of a players weakness in a blatant manner, as the one explained in the article, is unethical they could use that advice in a real life situation.Less fortunate people are exploited everyday and if children can learn that this leads to terrible things then that surely is a positive, right? And I just think that going out to win as your top priority is a bad attitude to have.

[Padday]

Well I'm sure the kids on the winning team had fun, and I think everybody learned about the game. Don't pitch to the best hitters, pitch to the weaker ones. I also think that if the parents and opposing coaches hadn't thrown a hissy fit either most kids wouldn't have cared either. It would have been oh well we lost lets go get some ice cream. Or if you really want to protect the kids from harm there shouldn't have even been a championship game. It should have just been a regular season, who ever has the most wins gets the trophy. Or even better like some leagues everybody who participates gets a trophy regardless of record.
I agree with you totally on the parents reaction. It only made it worse. But I have actually participated in spoting events where parents start swearing at umpires and officials and jeering at 12 year olds, and this only gets the kids rallied up aswell. One game they stopped it early because there was a fight at the end (I was huddled in a corner away from the fight)and it all started because of parents on the sideline. Some were even encouragin the violence. It was ludicrace.

[TonyK]

One thing overlooked is why did the Sox coach place this cancer survivor after his best hitter in the lineup? These are only 9 and 10-yr olds, and one of them wears a helmet when he is an outfielder, so I'm not buying the "win at all costs" philosophy of the Yankees coaches.

I wouldn't have IBB walked the kid but would have had a talk with my pitcher to discuss how to pitch to him.

"All coaches put their worst fielder in RF". Again, these coaches don't strike me as two I would want to have coaching my son in LL. Sometimes the worst place to put your worst fielder is RF. If your LL pitcher throws hard then a lot of hits will be going to RF. We used to switch outfielders from LF to RF depending on who we had pitching. They will soon find this out for themselves.

My son was intentionally walked in a LL Majors Championship Game once. The strategy worked and we didn't score. We did not walk their star player with only one out left in the game. He hit a double, and then scored the tieing run. In hindsight, if we did IBB him we probably would have won the game on a no-hitter.

[Elvis]

Sports is about competition, not learning life lessons or making friends.

At 9 years old it shouldn't by about competition. It should be about having fun, learning the basic skills of the game, sportsmanship, fair play and making friends.

[W_Marone]

It's a little league game parents and coaches, its about teaching the fundamentals, there is no big payoff for winning the championship. Pitch to the kid, and what goes down goes down. I wouldnt rank this up there with coaches paying children twenty bucks to hit a handicapped kid in the head, or parents fighting in the stands or in parkinglots about a play or a call. Remember its about the kids, why wont some parents realize this?

[ESPNFan]

This is what I don't get. How are these coaches trying to live out their fantasies? They're just trying to win the championship game, probably just as much for the kids as for themsevles. Walking this kid Jordan to face Romney gave them almost a sure win (and championship) so they took it. This is not unfair, this is playing by the rules, and it's NOT them "living out their fantasies".

Capitalizing so they can win? Maybe they should get a taste of the real world here, and make an actual baseball decision. I don't care what age these guys are, this is a championship game (meaning, since standings, etc are kept they're already making it competitive), and they should be playing to win.

When I play sports (or baseball), I play to win the game. It doesn't matter if the other guys suck. If I"m playing football, and on the other side the team gives the ball to a weak, sickly kid who can't run, what do you want me to do? Not tackle him behind the line for a 5 yard loss, and instead let him gain yards? It's the same type of situation.

Blatant disrespect? I know if I was on the other team (not Jordan or Romney's) I would be upset is they didn't walk Jordan.

I would say that Intentionally walking a batter is counterproductive to what an "everyone plays, everyone makes the team" league is trying to accomplish.
Add to the fact that they did it to pitch to a obviously disabled child and that the Coaches admitted it was "baseball strategy" and you have exactly the type of overly competitive adults who should never coach a youth sport. If your willing to publicly embarrass a child in order to win a game then yes I think these guys were living vicariously through their team and its accomplishments. These are the same type of men who falsify birth certificates and genreally give youth sports a bad name.

And yes it was a championship game and the kids do play to win but as we see with the 4 run per inning cap there were controls in place to prevent excessive humiliation etc.. Unfortunately that spirit was lost on the oafs who coached that game. And thats great that you play to win as you should, but how adults play pick up games and how youth sports should be run are two different things.

[ESPNFan]

Again though we have no real idea how "Jordan" got walked. But let us ignore that and ask the question again. What if Romney doesn't have cancer? In fact what if Romney simply isn't as good as Jordan? What if Jordan is a really good player?

Now We Do.

http://www.clippertoday.com/print_this_story.asp?smenu=4&sdetail=15583


Scream across the diamond to intentionally walk the hitter because the cancer victim is too weak and frail to hit the ball.

How anyone can defend these guys is mindboggling now.

[Elvis]

If that's what was truly said within earshot of the boy than that's beyond disgusting--it's vile beyond comprehension. These are 9-year old kids! :( :(

[flash143817]

What a pathetic story.


Stories like this are why everyone in America thinks they are entitled to something. It has been bred by this pitiful attitude that we are supposed to protect everyone from themselves like everyone is a damn incompetent. Everybody is just supposed to play nice and hold hands and everyone is a winner YAY!!!


Screw that. If it's not about winning then they shouldn't have a championship game or even keep score. The kid wasn't upset, so why are the self-righteous parents trying to live vicariously through him. If the parents are afraid of him failing then put him in a little league where they don't keep score and everyone lobs it underhand to all the batters so nobody gets offended.

And I'm not sure why it was mentioned earlier in the thread, but I was on multiple terrible baseball teams when I was growing up. A 3-15 team when I was 9 and a 1-19 team when I was 12. Both of them sucked...a lot. But never once did I want the other teams to let up on us just because our team was terrible. Hell I was so damn happy when I pitched us to our only win that 12 year old year.


And I think what it getting lost in all of this is the stupidity of the losing coach. None of this would have happened if he didn't bat his worst hitter after his best one. Not sure where he thought that was a good idea.

[ESPNFan]

What a pathetic story.


Stories like this are why everyone in America thinks they are entitled to something. It has been bred by this pitiful attitude that we are supposed to protect everyone from themselves like everyone is a damn incompetent. Everybody is just supposed to play nice and hold hands and everyone is a winner YAY!!!


Screw that. If it's not about winning then they shouldn't have a championship game or even keep score. The kid wasn't upset, so why are the self-righteous parents trying to live vicariously through him. If the parents are afraid of him failing then put him in a little league where they don't keep score and everyone lobs it underhand to all the batters so nobody gets offended.

And I'm not sure why it was mentioned earlier in the thread, but I was on multiple terrible baseball teams when I was growing up. A 3-15 team when I was 9 and a 1-19 team when I was 12. Both of them sucked...a lot. But never once did I want the other teams to let up on us just because our team was terrible. Hell I was so damn happy when I pitched us to our only win that 12 year old year.


And I think what it getting lost in all of this is the stupidity of the losing coach. None of this would have happened if he didn't bat his worst hitter after his best one. Not sure where he thought that was a good idea.

You know what your exactly right.
In fact now looking at the situation with the runner at third why risk throwing 4 pitches to the plate when a passed ball will score a run. Just have your 9 year old drill the batter with the first pitch because the runner can't advance on a dead ball. Less chance for error that way and whats a possible injury in comparison to etarnal glory in the pantheon of 9-10 little league champions.

http://www.mustangmods.com/data/10900/brilliant.jpg
BRILLIANT!!!

[Hammerin Hank]

"This isn't the Special Olympics. He's not retarded"

A remark coming straight from human garbage. It may not be the Special Olympics but there be some "retards" around these parts.

[Ubiquitous]

If that's what was truly said within earshot of the boy than that's beyond disgusting--it's vile beyond comprehension. These are 9-year old kids! :( :(


Actually we have no idea what he said the link article was not a direct quote. At best he yelled to his pitcher from either the first base coaches spot or the dugout area to walk the next batter. I seriously doubt he went into a long explanation like it is printed in the article. Reminds me of the allstate insurance radio comercial in which the coach is screaming to the runner on first to steal second base but not to tell anyone or they might they throw them out. The writer is in all probability embelishing or adding his own view to aid in completing the picture he wants you to see.

The second article linked gives a little more info, but again a lot is missing. I'm willing to bet Mr. Reilly borrowed heavily from this article. Either that or both borrowed from another article. A lot of it seem to have similar style. Personally I would like to know how Romney was used, what he did before in the game and in the season. These guys are painting a picture and in that Romney is the poor victim and that is all he is. The coaches are villains and that is all they are. In reality they are all human beings and their is more to Romney then being a poor helpless victim. Which is the role these people want him to play.

[Imapotato]

I want to thank all the self absorbed, morality challenged individuals for teaching me a valuable lesson in this thread

Taking your advice, I went out and pushed a 5 year old off his tricycle to show him that when you are bigger then someone else you can take what you want

Then I went to the Boys club and dunked on some 11 year olds and when they cried I told them to shut their cakeholes, everyone loses and fails

I then went to Shriner's hospital and told the kids with leukemia to 'suck it up' No one gets something for nothing and to get out get a paper route so they would stop sponging off my taxes

Then when I came back home, my son showed me a picture he made...it was horrible, so I crumpled it up, threw it out and fired him

Yes I fired my son, because like you said, he should learn how to deal with shotty work not being accepted in the real world

I think I molded some young minds today, and its all thanks to you guys

(sarcasm...another American trait that is deemed perfectly fine in todays society)

[willie24fan]

Winning at all costs is destructive thinking. That breeds the thinking that one should sacrifice everything, honor, family, whatever, to win. That's sickening. That's why NCAA athletes are not true "scholar-athletes" but in fact just professionals who are not getting paid but are exploited for the schools' benefit.

The problem is that from the very young age, start of organized sports, parents and coaches make athletics more important than other aspects of life and give them elite status; thereby engraining in the exceptional athlete a warped sense of entitlement. Read Our Guys by Bernard Lefkowitz about how some "star" football players raped a mentally retarded girl.

[Ubiquitous]

I want to thank all the self absorbed, morality challenged individuals for teaching me a valuable lesson in this thread

Taking your advice, I went out and pushed a 5 year old off his tricycle to show him that when you are bigger then someone else you can take what you want

Then I went to the Boys club and dunked on some 11 year olds and when they cried I told them to shut their cakeholes, everyone loses and fails

I then went to Shriner's hospital and told the kids with leukemia to 'suck it up' No one gets something for nothing and to get out get a paper route so they would stop sponging off my taxes

Then when I came back home, my son showed me a picture he made...it was horrible, so I crumpled it up, threw it out and fired him

Yes I fired my son, because like you said, he should learn how to deal with shotty work not being accepted in the real world

I think I molded some young minds today, and its all thanks to you guys

(sarcasm...another American trait that is deemed perfectly fine in todays society)

Ahh nothing like taking it to its most illogical extreme.

[Hammerin Hank]

Deleted per request.

[Ubiquitous]

Winning at all costs is destructive thinking. That breeds the thinking that one should sacrifice everything, honor, family, whatever, to win. That's sickening. That's why NCAA athletes are not true "scholar-athletes" but in fact just professionals who are not getting paid but are exploited for the schools' benefit.

So how is this winning at all costs. They walked one batter in the championship game. They were winning. Did they cheat. Were they using steroids? Did they fix games in the regular season? The coach made a decision, it wasn't a nice decision, it wasn't a pleasant decision but it wasn't win at all costs.



The problem is that from the very young age, start of organized sports, parents and coaches make athletics more important than other aspects of life and give them elite status; thereby ingraining in the exceptional athlete a warped sense of entitlement. Read Our Guys by Bernard Lefkowitz about how some "star" football players raped a mentally retarded girl.

Criminal behavior is not exclusive to sports players nor is the ingraining of special entitlement exclusive to athletes. There is nothing anyone can say or teach a kid that will make him think he can rape a woman. that is something inside that individual who commits that heinous act. It wasn't the sport that causes someone to rape a mentally retarded girl.

[willie24fan]

So how is this winning at all costs. They walked one batter in the championship game. They were winning. Did they cheat. Were they using steroids? Did they fix games in the regular season? The coach made a decision, it wasn't a nice decision, it wasn't a pleasant decision but it wasn't win at all costs.



Criminal behavior is not exclusive to sports players nor is the ingraining of special entitlement exclusive to athletes. There is nothing anyone can say or teach a kid that will make him think he can rape a woman. that is something inside that individual who commits that heinous act. It wasn't the sport that causes someone to rape a mentally retarded girl.

The sport does not cause rape, its the special entitlement that is granted to athletes (among others, yes).

[Ubiquitous]

The sport does not cause rape, its the special entitlement that is granted to athletes (among others, yes).


I haven't read the book, but what special entitlement makes somebody think they can rape a mentally retarded girl? Or even a normal girl?

[ESPNFan]

Actually we have no idea what he said the link article was not a direct quote. At best he yelled to his pitcher from either the first base coaches spot or the dugout area to walk the next batter. I seriously doubt he went into a long explanation like it is printed in the article. Reminds me of the allstate insurance radio comercial in which the coach is screaming to the runner on first to steal second base but not to tell anyone or they might they throw them out. The writer is in all probability embelishing or adding his own view to aid in completing the picture he wants you to see.

The second article linked gives a little more info, but again a lot is missing. I'm willing to bet Mr. Reilly borrowed heavily from this article. Either that or both borrowed from another article. A lot of it seem to have similar style. Personally I would like to know how Romney was used, what he did before in the game and in the season. These guys are painting a picture and in that Romney is the poor victim and that is all he is. The coaches are villains and that is all they are. In reality they are all human beings and their is more to Romney then being a poor helpless victim. Which is the role these people want him to play.

Well of course there is more to this than Romney just being a helpless victim. If a kid like him can give cancer the boot then a couple of coaches with inferiority complexes should be no sweat.

The point is he shouldn't have had to deal with this because at this level of athletics the Intential walk was a bush league tactic. Not only that but one of the coaches had coached Romney on his baskettball team so there is no doubt he was fully aware of his condition, and yet lies about it saying he didn't know the boys medical history. If you can coach a impared sickly child and then turn around and use that knowladge agisnt him you really are a scumbag with no compassion at all.

[Ubiquitous]

The guy might very well be a scumbag. I'm just not going to label him that based on a couple of quotes and a few paragraphs simply because two writers want us to take that view.

Like I said we really have no idea how Romney was used at all. NOr am I going to blame an opposing coach for Romney's well being. Personally if Romney was in as bad of shape as the second article indicates in terms of skill and condition then he shouldn't have been playing at that level. He should have still been in T-Ball instead of a fast pitch league.

[willie24fan]

I haven't read the book, but what special entitlement makes somebody think they can rape a mentally retarded girl? Or even a normal girl?

If you've been involved in sports, you've seen the entitlement. The book describes how even where the teams are mediocre, the "stars" get special treatment and how that star treatment starts in LL, where the stars get lauded, extra candy, extra attention from the coaches, parents, etc. This just builds from there.

I remember how in 9th grade (last year of Junior High), the top student got a trophy about 12" high, and the starting QB? He got a trophy 4 FEET high. Is that the right message to send to our kids?

[Elvis]

I remember how in 9th grade (last year of Junior High), the top student got a trophy about 12" high, and the starting QB? He got a trophy 4 FEET high. Is that the right message to send to our kids?

According to many here, the right message to send to our kids is, "It's a cruel competetive world out there and you better get used to fighting to be better than the next guy, even if it means being unkind to get ahead."

As long as we keep preaching "competition and getting ahead" over "cooperation and acts of kindness", we'll always live in a world filled with violence, rage and selfishness.

[Hammerin Hank]

According to many here, the right message to send to our kids is, "It's a cruel competetive world out there and you better get used to fighting to be better than the next guy, even if it means being unkind to get ahead."

As long as we keep preaching "competition and getting ahead" over "cooperation and acts of kindness", we'll always live in a world filled with violence, rage and selfishness.

I can't even believe there are people on this board with that state of mind. I always thought this was a rather intelligent group of people we have here.

[Ubiquitous]

I know what kind of special treatment athletes get. I am asking what kind of special treatment one gets that makes them think they can rape a mentally retarded girl? That is aberrant behavior inside the person.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

I don't agree with the decision to walk Jordan to get to Romney. Its one thing for Romney to be treated "the same" as everyone else, but his weakness was exploited and that is disgusting.

Had there been a "normal" kid on deck, would the manager have walked Jordan? Probably not imo.

[sturg1dj]

I don't know if this has already been said

but I blame the cancer kid's coach

I mean come on, why bat a bad kid after your best...haha

too far?

[Wasp]

I don't get why everyone is so up in arms about this. I highly doubt Romney was "picked on" for his condition. The black and white picture is that he was a worse hitter than the kid who was walked. That's all. Now, I am a little disgusted that the coach denied that he knew about Romney's condition, when he most likely knew about it all along. Anyway, the point is Romney has gotten over the incidence, and is working to become a better player(good for him). That's all that really matters.

[blslivewire]

I don't agree with the decision to walk Jordan to get to Romney. Its one thing for Romney to be treated "the same" as everyone else, but his weakness was exploited and that is disgusting.

Had there been a "normal" kid on deck, would the manager have walked Jordan? Probably not imo.

EXACTLY!!!! This is the issue in black and white. Any decent human being would see it this way. But we(males) have to put on this stupid front all the time to prove that we're tough and spin the issue into some primitive lesson.

99% of adult life sucks. Childhood is for having fun before all the s*** happens. There's a time to teach kids lessons-such as exploiting the weaknesses of others for petty prizes-and then there are times to do the right thing.

No one has said they should have tossed underhanded to the kid. You just don't exploit the weaknesses of a child who has just survived cancer!!! It's called being a decent human being.

Tell this story to any parent and the great majority of them will be horriefied at what this coach did.

And for all you tough guys who think it's so tough or honorable to teach this kid a lesson about how "life isn't fair," I've got some news for you: This kid is 10 times tougher than you ever thought about being. He stared cancer in the face and beat it. He's already learned his lessons and he could probably teach you a thing or two about toughness and fairness.

[Hammerin Hank]

I don't know if this has already been said

but I blame the cancer kid's coach

I mean come on, why bat a bad kid after your best...haha

too far?

Kind of draws some qustions, doesn't it? It's like the coach was using reverse strategy instead of none at all, eh?

[sturg1dj]

intentional walks in little league is kind of where it bothers me.

you want hindsight? Don't intentionally walk the kid, do the old un-intentional intentional walk. Don't give him anything to hit.

Then the cancer kid isn't crying because everyone knows he bad and they pitched to him just for that, but instead hes crying only because he lost the game.

If this happened when I was pitching in little league, and someone told me to walk someone, I'd hit him (NOT HARD, I'm NOT SAYING HURT THE KID). I'd throw a curve that just nicked the kid, and it would just look like no big deal.

[TonyK]

intentional walks in little league is kind of where it bothers me.

you want hindsight? Don't intentionally walk the kid, do the old un-intentional intentional walk. Don't give him anything to hit.

Then the cancer kid isn't crying because everyone knows he bad and they pitched to him just for that, but instead hes crying only because he lost the game.

If this happened when I was pitching in little league, and someone told me to walk someone, I'd hit him (NOT HARD, I'm NOT SAYING HURT THE KID). I'd throw a curve that just nicked the kid, and it would just look like no big deal.

Good LL hitters can usually avoid being hit, or even swing and hit the ball before it hits them. I've seen it done. So maybe your pitch doesn't hit them, it goes to the backstop, and the tieing run scores.

Imagine what the Yankees coaches would have done if their pitcher understood what was happening and decided he didn't want to win the game this way?

Instead of striking out the cancer survivor, he let him hit the ball by lobbing it right down the middle. The boy hits it and there is a play at 1B for the third out. It never would have happened because the pitcher was probably the son of one of the two coaches I bet.

The goal of every LL minor league should be for all of the teams to finish with close to a .500 record. This undefeated coach and his team lost the battle that day no matter what the scoreboard read.

[RuthMayBond]

Now We Do.

http://www.clippertoday.com/print_this_story.asp?smenu=4&sdetail=15583



How anyone can defend these guys is mindboggling now.It's never said that the coach did this, just implied. If he did, he should be put out of the league (and I've got to believe the ruckus would have started then and not waited until the four balls came)

[willie24fan]

I know what kind of special treatment athletes get. I am asking what kind of special treatment one gets that makes them think they can rape a mentally retarded girl? That is aberrant behavior inside the person.

No, the theory I admit is, that's aberrant behavior which is released because of the special treatment bestowed on them. If they were not given exhaulted status, this behavior would not occur. People exhibit aberrant behavior because they think they can get away with it because they are "special."

[538280]

I would say that Intentionally walking a batter is counterproductive to what an "everyone plays, everyone makes the team" league is trying to accomplish.
Add to the fact that they did it to pitch to a obviously disabled child and that the Coaches admitted it was "baseball strategy" and you have exactly the type of overly competitive adults who should never coach a youth sport. If your willing to publicly embarrass a child in order to win a game then yes I think these guys were living vicariously through their team and its accomplishments. These are the same type of men who falsify birth certificates and genreally give youth sports a bad name.

And yes it was a championship game and the kids do play to win but as we see with the 4 run per inning cap there were controls in place to prevent excessive humiliation etc.. Unfortunately that spirit was lost on the oafs who coached that game. And thats great that you play to win as you should, but how adults play pick up games and how youth sports should be run are two different things.

I completely disagree with you. I don't think they were being overly serious about the game or anything, I think they want to WIN. And that, IMO, is the message that should be sent as much as anything else. This is not taking advantage of weak child, it's doing what you can, because you want to win the game. I don't suspect we're going anywhere with this, though, so we'll just agree to disagree.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

No, the theory I admit is, that's aberrant behavior which is released because of the special treatment bestowed on them. If they were not given exhaulted status, this behavior would not occur. People exhibit aberrant behavior because they think they can get away with it because they are "special."
This is most riduculous theory I've ever heard. Male athletes become rapists becuase they were coddled? Is that what you are saying? :rolleyes: Men become rapist because they have violent tendencies and they act out. Many male athetes are coddled and given exhaulted status and about 99% don't go around raping women. How do you explain that?

[538280]

It's never said that the coach did this, just implied. If he did, he should be put out of the league (and I've got to believe the ruckus would have started then and not waited until the four balls came)

Now see I disagree with that article. No one should or will be lauding and congratulating the coach because he intentionally walked Jordan, and I don't think that was the intent (though I cannot say for sure, I was not there). I think anyone with one iota of knowledge about the game would know that in strict baseball terms, that was absolutely the right decison. That makes what they did a baseball decision, and since this was a compeitive championship game I would have done the same thing.

[Elvis]

Many male athetes are coddled and given exhaulted status and about 99% don't go around raping women. How do you explain that?

Easy cheerleaders and cheap hookers.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

According to many here, the right message to send to our kids is, "It's a cruel competetive world out there and you better get used to fighting to be better than the next guy, even if it means being unkind to get ahead."

As long as we keep preaching "competition and getting ahead" over "cooperation and acts of kindness", we'll always live in a world filled with violence, rage and selfishness.
Well since you said "we" then I think you need to stop preaching "competition and getting ahead". Then come talk to us.

[Elvis]

Well since you said "we" then I think you need to stop preaching "competition and getting ahead". Then come talk to us.

Har har har.

[PopTop]

I don't know what the real and complete story is. The consensus here appears to be that hanging is too good for the Yankees coach. Maybe Vic Morrow can come back from the dead and play Bob Farley in the movie.

What I do know is that if passion ran this high when it came time to sign up volunteers for youth league programs, there'd be a waiting list two miles long for even the smallest of organizations. And I know that isn't the case. So I urge everyone here who has strong feelings for this story to head out and sign up to coach, umpire, work the concession stands, mow the fields, etc. If you truly want to effect change, push away from the computer and get outside.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

that was absolutely the right decison. That makes what they did a baseball decision, and since this was a compeitive championship game I would have done the same thing.

What made it the "right" decision? The fact that one of the best hitters was up, or the fact that Romney was on deck?

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Har har har.
:laugh :laugh :laugh

[RuthMayBond]

Now see I disagree with that article. No one should or will be lauding and congratulating the coach because he intentionally walked Jordan, and I don't think that was the intent (though I cannot say for sure, I was not there). I think anyone with one iota of knowledge about the game would know that in strict baseball terms, that was absolutely the right decison. That makes what they did a baseball decision, and since this was a compeitive championship game I would have done the same thing.I was referring to the screaming/yelling mentioned in the article. If the coach never did that, the article has a cheap insinuation

[trosmok]

.......
What I do know is that if passion ran this high when it came time to sign up volunteers for youth league programs, there'd be a waiting list two miles long for even the smallest of organizations. And I know that isn't the case. So I urge everyone here who has strong feelings for this story to head out and sign up to coach, umpire, work the concession stands, mow the fields, etc. If you truly want to effect change, push away from the computer and get outside.

:clapping

Ah! A voice of reason amidst the otherwise. Spot on, PopTop, and I hope others heed your call. For years I have worked with both youth and young adults in Special Olympics and other more competitive endeavors. Often I dreaded the notion some games were going to be 171-0, or worse yet, 0-0 at the time limit, but surprisingly this wasn't the case. A few blowouts aside, most games were 6-4, 3-2, and during pivotal moments the emphasis was first: Do No Harm! and then try to win. I have mixed emotions about the story from Bountiful (ironic name, eh?), but one thing I try hard to follow, in business and in life, is to not criticise without offering a beneficial alternative or suggestion. I have also learned that some adults simply never will know compassion, empathy, or joy in simply living for the beauty of life, so the Pony League coach probably sleeps smugly and soundly knowing he did the right thing for himself, devoid of any thoughts of others. Poor fellow, I guess I feel sorry for him the most in all this.:(

[willie24fan]

This is most riduculous theory I've ever heard. Male athletes become rapists becuase they were coddled? Is that what you are saying? :rolleyes: Men become rapist because they have violent tendencies and they act out. Many male athetes are coddled and given exhaulted status and about 99% don't go around raping women. How do you explain that?

Let's get off the rape issue. I'm saying these acts are more likely to be committed because the coddling leads them to believe that they are entitled to do whatever they please. Not that coddling causes rape.

The main point is that my belief is that society has put athletes on too high a pedestal and it starts very early on.

[PopTop]

For years I have worked with both youth and young adults in Special Olympics and other more competitive endeavors.You, sir, are the one deserving of a big round of applause for your work with the Special Olympics.:clapping

As for your note about the adults, I couldn't agree more. I worked almost 50 games this year, about half of them behind the plate. It makes for a very busy April and May. There were plenty of times I would be rushing from work to get to the park and asking myself why I was putting so much effort into this because of a few of the adults. But then you get to the park and see the kids, and it's all hunky-dory. I've had one incident with a kid over the years; wish I had experienced that few with the parents :rolleyes:

[baseball junkie]

This story is another sickening display of "humanity" at its worst.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

This story is another sickening display of "humanity" at its worst.
This is humanity at its worst? Not terrorists crashing airpanes into buildings? Not civilians being killed in Lebanon? Not kids being assaulted by adults? Not the millions of babies being murdered (aborted) every year? Not the Civil War in the Sudan? Not the thousands of people executed around the world for non-capital crimes?

[Dick Groat's syndrome]

I'm still amazed as to why the Sox coach put Romney behind Jordan. :noidea It just doesn't make sense. In baseball or moral terms, why do it? How many times do you think Jordan got on base this season with 2 outs, and then Romney struck out. He must've taken a lot of crap for that (Romney). I just don't understand. When I first read the article I immediately thought how sickening it was, but now, I don't see the big deal. If Tommy Toothpick was behind Jordan, and he was a beanpole with no coordination or power, but perfectly healthy, then this uproar wouldn't have occurred.

[Imapotato]

Intentionally walking a 10 year old in little league and then saying it 'was good baseball strategy'

is ALL you need to know from this story

I have had numerous run ins with these types of coaches and my 13 year old no longer plays baseball because he had a good coach then ran into a moron who thought he was Tommy Lasorda

[538280]

What made it the "right" decision? The fact that one of the best hitters was up, or the fact that Romney was on deck?

Both. Obviously if the kid up was no good they woudn't have walked him, and if the next guy could hit, they wouldn't have either (depending, of course, on exactly how good this Jordan was, I don't know that).

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Let's get off the rape issue. I'm saying these acts are more likely to be committed because the coddling leads them to believe that they are entitled to do whatever they please. Not that coddling causes rape.

The main point is that my belief is that society has put athletes on too high a pedestal and it starts very early on.

Mike Tyson anyone? But he was hardly coddled as a little kid. Later on as a youth he was.

The rape scenario might be a bit over-board. I will agree that the pampering that starts from a very young age (especially with basketball players...doesn't some website list the top junior high "prospects?:rolleyes: ) can and often does lead to a sense of entitlement later on. But then you also have exceptions from time to time, like LeBron. He's as mature and as well grounded as you could hope for a young man in his position. No surprise that inner city youths who grew up with very little and now suddenly find themselves rich beyond belief sometimes make poor decisions. That's getting off topic though.


Both. Obviously if the kid up was no good they woudn't have walked him, and if the next guy could hit, they wouldn't have either (depending, of course, on exactly how good this Jordan was, I don't know that).

Ok, fair enough. Both. But do you seriously think the IBB would have come had a "normal" kid been on deck. You don't see that action as exploiting the kids extreme weakness? Kinda like picking out Jim Abbot to arm wrestle and declaring yourself champion after you've "won."

[flash143817]

You know what your exactly right.
In fact now looking at the situation with the runner at third why risk throwing 4 pitches to the plate when a passed ball will score a run. Just have your 9 year old drill the batter with the first pitch because the runner can't advance on a dead ball. Less chance for error that way and whats a possible injury in comparison to etarnal glory in the pantheon of 9-10 little league champions.

http://www.mustangmods.com/data/10900/brilliant.jpg
BRILLIANT!!!

If a pitcher doesn't have control enough to throw 4 wide ones, how is he gonna have the control to hit the batter? But of course I would expect the same shortsighted thinking from someone who supports a moronic coach that bats his best hitter right in front of his worst hitter, creating this whole situation in the first place.

Like I said before, if people don't want it to be about winning a championship, then don't hold one in the first place.

But let's just take a biased reporter's word for it, unless of course you are so upset because you have a special connection to the kid.

I will say one thing...this issue sure seems to split right along the political spectrum.

[flash143817]

I don't get why everyone is so up in arms about this. I highly doubt Romney was "picked on" for his condition. The black and white picture is that he was a worse hitter than the kid who was walked. That's all. Now, I am a little disgusted that the coach denied that he knew about Romney's condition, when he most likely knew about it all along. Anyway, the point is Romney has gotten over the incidence, and is working to become a better player(good for him). That's all that really matters.

I agree with this post. The kid isn't upset. He is taking it as a learning experience, like he should. He wanted to be in a real league and treated normally, he was, and by all account, he is perfectly fine with that.

Now if we could just eliminate bitching parents from athletic competition it would have made this the non-issue that it should have been.

[flash143817]

I'm still amazed as to why the Sox coach put Romney behind Jordan. :noidea It just doesn't make sense. In baseball or moral terms, why do it? How many times do you think Jordan got on base this season with 2 outs, and then Romney struck out. He must've taken a lot of crap for that (Romney). I just don't understand. When I first read the article I immediately thought how sickening it was, but now, I don't see the big deal. If Tommy Toothpick was behind Jordan, and he was a beanpole with no coordination or power, but perfectly healthy, then this uproar wouldn't have occurred.

Exactly, and that is why I am annoyed that people are doing so much whining about it. Everybody has to get their little bleeding heart on just because the kid had cancer. I'm sorry he had cancer, that really sucks for him and I hope he makes (or made) a full recovery. But he got exactly what he (and presumably the parents) wanted: he was treated normal, and he happened to fail. Failure is a part of life and according to the article he has learned from it and is working to make himself better.

Kudos to the kid. Huge thumbs down to the parents.

[538280]

Ok, fair enough. Both. But do you seriously think the IBB would have come had a "normal" kid been on deck. You don't see that action as exploiting the kids extreme weakness? Kinda like picking out Jim Abbot to arm wrestle and declaring yourself champion after you've "won."

If it was a "normal" kid who couldn't hit, yes.

And I do see it as exploiting his weakness. My contention is that it doesn't matter that people are explointing his weakness, they should be trying to do all they can to win for their team. This is a champiionship game here, competition and drive to win at all costs is already being encouraged by there being such a game in the first place.

You want kids to learn the game? Why not show them an appropriate time to intentionally walk a batter? Because this is the textbook time (very good hitter up, bad one on deck, setting aside the whole cancer issue)

Another thing, if this hasn't already been mentioned. Why exactly would anyone bat this kid Romney behind the best hitter on the team?

[flash143817]

Ok, fair enough. Both. But do you seriously think the IBB would have come had a "normal" kid been on deck. You don't see that action as exploiting the kids extreme weakness? Kinda like picking out Jim Abbot to arm wrestle and declaring yourself champion after you've "won."

I think it would have been the exact same with a "normal" weak player. Every Little League team I was on had at least one or two horrible horrible players that got maybe 1 hit a season. I'm sure the manager would have walked one of our better hitters to get to these horrible ones any day of the week in a championship game. I know I'd want the manager to if I was on the pitching team.

But then again, none of my coaches ever decided to bat our horrible hitters right behind our best hitters. They always batted at the end of the lineup where they belonged.

[baseball junkie]

This is humanity at its worst? Not terrorists crashing airpanes into buildings? Not civilians being killed in Lebanon? Not kids being assaulted by adults? Not the millions of babies being murdered (aborted) every year? Not the Civil War in the Sudan? Not the thousands of people executed around the world for non-capital crimes?


I think somebody needs a xanax.

[flash143817]

If it was a "normal" kid who couldn't hit, yes.

And I do see it as exploiting his weakness. My contention is that it doesn't matter that people are explointing his weakness, they should be trying to do all they can to win for their team. This is a champiionship game here, competition and drive to win at all costs is already being encouraged by there being such a game in the first place.

You want kids to learn the game? Why not show them an appropriate time to intentionally walk a batter? Because this is the textbook time (very good hitter up, bad one on deck, setting aside the whole cancer issue)

Another thing, if this hasn't already been mentioned. Why exactly would anyone bat this kid Romney behind the best hitter on the team?

Wow I agree with everything in this post.

As far as the bolded part, something tells me that either the coach was preparing himself for parental sympathy by batting his worst hitter WAY to high in the order, or he was a complete moron who probably shouldn't be coaching a team to begin with. Or maybe Romney was his son. We all know how parents overrate their own kids at these levels.

[W_Marone]

This is humanity at its worst? Not terrorists crashing airpanes into buildings? Not civilians being killed in Lebanon? Not kids being assaulted by adults? Not the millions of babies being murdered (aborted) every year? Not the Civil War in the Sudan? Not the thousands of people executed around the world for non-capital crimes?

I have to agree....sure this a disappointing turn of events in this story but, c'mon guys its not the end of the world. Worst things have happened in baseball than walking a good player to pitch to a player recovering from cancer, to be frank, there have been worse situations in which coaches have paid players to hit mentally handicapped players in the head, and things of that nature. Lets not blow this way out of proportion gentleman. This isnt the worst thing that could happen. But, continue discussion boys, just felt I had to add something.

[blslivewire]

And I do see it as exploiting his weakness. My contention is that it doesn't matter that people are explointing his weakness, they should be trying to do all they can to win for their team. This is a champiionship game here, competition and drive to win at all costs is already being encouraged by there being such a game in the first place.

You want kids to learn the game? Why not show them an appropriate time to intentionally walk a batter? Because this is the textbook time (very good hitter up, bad one on deck, setting aside the whole cancer issue)

Another thing, if this hasn't already been mentioned. Why exactly would anyone bat this kid Romney behind the best hitter on the team?

These are children. You don't teach kids to stoop to such levels in order to win a petty prize. And yes, a little league championship is petty, despite what anyone-even the kids-may think.

Petty prizes are not excuses for this behavoir. And under no circumstances does anyone with a shred of decency in them exploit the weaknesses of a child. If it's high school, fine. Maybe even junoir high. But these are prepubescent children and you don't do that to them.

On teaching the kids the game.... I've got a feeling this kid could teach that coach and anyone defending him about the game. This kid gets it. He wasn't in it for the petty prizes. He was playing baseball because he learned at a much too early age just exactly how valueable life is and wanted to enjoy as much of it as he cann.

As for the batting order, it's like saying it's okay to steal from a store since the don't nail the stuff down to the floor.

And I've heard of some leagues that have a rule where the players bat either in alphabetical order(I think this is t ball though) or by the position they play on the feild. This league or the coach may have used tht method.

[ElHalo]

Petty prizes are not excuses for this behavoir. And under no circumstances does anyone with a shred of decency in them exploit the weaknesses of a child. If it's high school, fine. Maybe even junoir high. But these are prepubescent children and you don't do that to them.

I completely disagree. This kind of thing teaches kids a multitude of valuable lessons: life is always unfair; people are always going to cheat and scratch and toss you on the garbage heap to gain the tiniest, slightest advantage over you; never trust anything from anyone; and always remember that everyone else in the world is out solely for their own interest, and cares less about your feelings than about dog droppings on the sidewalk. Bravo to this coach; he's helping kids learn about how real life really works.

[Astro]

Petty prizes are not excuses for this behavoir. And under no circumstances does anyone with a shred of decency in them exploit the weaknesses of a child. If it's high school, fine. Maybe even junoir high. But these are prepubescent children and you don't do that to them.

9 and 10 year olds are in 4th and 5th grade respectively.... is there really that much of a difference between 10 and 11 (since you said maybe even junior high)

[tigers527]

I hope I am not stealing anyones thunder, as I have only read the first page of responces. To be wholely honest I have not even read the story, but I have heard the details on sports radio today. I am disgusted, but not by the usual suspects. I am ticked at Riley, I mean isn't something bigger then a 9-10 y/o little league game he could of "moralized" about?

He left everyone to speculate about the entirety of both the game but the season and the preformance of the coaches in question. Leaving up in the air rather or not the coach of the "disabled" kid, used him sparsely perhaps only putting him on deck late in games, when the game is won or lost by what happens with the previous batter? Rather or not the other coach kept up with the entire league and employed this same strategy with the "normal" kids who were weaker hitters? With these ommisions I don't think the story is fair.

That said, I think you could for sure call the one coach a heel if he walked the bases loaded to face the handicapped kid with 2 outs, one batter though not so much of a heel.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Yeah, no kiddin' The coach is a trailblazer and an innovator. Hopefully 10 years from now this kind of "harsh lesson" mentality will be commonly brought down upon all young boys, especially those with cancer. After all, why let them wait to find out reality. Might as well get them started early. Life sucks and people are evil. Lesson learned.

[Astro]

Yeah, no kiddin' The coach is a trailblazer and an innovator. Hopefully 10 years from now this kind of "harsh lesson" mentality will be commonly brought down upon all young boys, especially those with cancer. After all, why let them wait to find out reality. Might as well get them started early. Life sucks and people are evil. Lesson learned.
A) Why does it matter if he has cancer, if he wants to be treated normal that should not matter
B) He does not have cancer anymore (or that is how I took it)

[Elvis]

I completely disagree. This kind of thing teaches kids a multitude of valuable lessons: life is always unfair; people are always going to cheat and scratch and toss you on the garbage heap to gain the tiniest, slightest advantage over you; never trust anything from anyone; and always remember that everyone else in the world is out solely for their own interest, and cares less about your feelings than about dog droppings on the sidewalk. Bravo to this coach; he's helping kids learn about how real life really works.

Wow, you sure have a dark, fearfull impression of life. I bet you think that shows like Mr. Rogers are bad for kids because he teaches exactly the opposite.

"The most important decision that a man has to make in his life is this: Do I live in a friendly or a hostile universe? Whichever you select is what you will always attract in your life."

--Albert Einstein

[Sultan_1895-1948]

He wasn't treated normal. His weakness was exploited in a grotesque manner imo. I'm extremely anti-PC. I would normally fall on the other side of an issue like this, but the age of the boys, the condition of Romney, and the comments from the coach won't allow it.

Didn't Reilly say he had a tube coming out of his head?

[blslivewire]

I completely disagree. This kind of thing teaches kids a multitude of valuable lessons: life is always unfair; people are always going to cheat and scratch and toss you on the garbage heap to gain the tiniest, slightest advantage over you; never trust anything from anyone; and always remember that everyone else in the world is out solely for their own interest, and cares less about your feelings than about dog droppings on the sidewalk. Bravo to this coach; he's helping kids learn about how real life really works.

This kid already knows how "life really works." He had cancer for Christ's sakes! Believe me, he knows better than that coach, you or me "how real life really works." What more do you think he needs to go through before you're satisfied.

By the way, his definition of fairness and ours are probably a lot different. Unfair to most people is not enough napkins at Starbucks. Unfair to him is not knowing if you'll live to see Christmas.


Of course life sucks. But let kids enjoy it before it starts to suck. A 10 year old does not need to be worry about how people will treat him when he's an adult. He needs to know about Ninja Turtles. There is a time and place for life lessons and this was not one of them.

Sorry to be so harsh but those of you who think you can teach this kid something should step back and learn from him.

[blslivewire]

9 and 10 year olds are in 4th and 5th grade respectively.... is there really that much of a difference between 10 and 11 (since you said maybe even junior high)


Sorry not to clarify. Where I live junoir high is 7th and 8th grade.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

This kid already knows how "life really works." He had cancer for Christ's sakes! Believe me, he knows better than that coach, you or me "how real life really works." What more do you think he needs to go through before you're satisfied.

By the way, his definition of fairness and ours are probably a lot different. Unfair to most people is not enough napkins at Starbucks. Unfair to him is not knowing if you'll live to see Christmas.


Of course life sucks. But let kids enjoy it before it starts to suck. A 10 year old does not need to be worry about how people will treat him when he's an adult. He needs to know about Ninja Turtles. There is a time and place for life lessons and this was not one of them.

Sorry to be so harsh but those of you who think you can teach this kid something should step back and learn from him.

Pretty sure ElHalo was being sarcastic.

[wamby]

I don't think it is very beneficial for kids to be too involved in adult orientated activities. and I believe that youth sports are geared more for adults than for kids. I think it would be much better for kids to play ball informally at the school yard than it is for them to belong to these super-organized leagues. I think kids time is too micro-managed by parents.

I also think that expecting a kid's coach to be a role model is expecting a bit much. When I was growing up, I had one or two coaches who might have been considered role models, a couple who were complete jerk-offs, and many who were probably doing someone a favor by being there. I coached a team one year, and will never do it again.

I don't recall learning much about thegame when I played for organized teams. I learned a lot more by just going to the playground and playing every day.

[tigers527]

I think that coach was being a pansy for walking the best hitter to face the cancer survivor....he should of had the pitcher throw at the best hitter....
-Ozzie Guillen-

[W_Marone]

He wasn't treated normal. His weakness was exploited in a grotesque manner imo. I'm extremely anti-PC. I would normally fall on the other side of an issue like this, but the age of the boys, the condition of Romney, and the comments from the coach won't allow it.

Didn't Reilly say he had a tube coming out of his head?

A shunt, its a small tube that is inserted into the top of the head and goes down the side of the abdomen to drain the access fluid that collects above the head, I dont think it comes out of thier body, I'm almost positive.

[ESPNFan]

Wow I agree with everything in this post.

As far as the bolded part, something tells me that either the coach was preparing himself for parental sympathy by batting his worst hitter WAY to high in the order, or he was a complete moron who probably shouldn't be coaching a team to begin with. Or maybe Romney was his son. We all know how parents overrate their own kids at these levels.

You have to be kidding me.

The Coach preparing himself for sympathy? That is just baseless speculation and more likely than not there was probably a very arbitrary way the batting order was generated. Romney's mother said that he played Center feild at some point during the season and judging by the way he bats I highly doubt he is ther for his defensive wizardry. Its because its a for fun team. Yes there are winners and losers but with caps on per inning scoring its obvious there are provisions to prevent kids from being subjected to an embarrassing defeat. The same embarrasment the coaches of the Yankees subjected Romney to when publicly calling out his inability to hit and walking the batter infromt of him in a YOUTH LEAGE GAME. ITS AN EVERYBODY PLAYS YOUTH LEAGUE. that point cannot be stressed enough. I have heard so much "its a part of the game" BS in this thread that its mindboggling. No player should ever be Intentionally walked at this level. I never saw it in my life, thankfully. The fact that they did it to victimize a kid recovering from cancer makes those coaches the lowest of the low. Let the kids play

And If you dont agree think about this:

There is a reason why these men are called Coaches and not Managers.

[ESPNFan]

If a pitcher doesn't have control enough to throw 4 wide ones, how is he gonna have the control to hit the batter? But of course I would expect the same shortsighted thinking from someone who supports a moronic coach that bats his best hitter right in front of his worst hitter, creating this whole situation in the first place.

Like I said before, if people don't want it to be about winning a championship, then don't hold one in the first place.

But let's just take a biased reporter's word for it, unless of course you are so upset because you have a special connection to the kid.

I will say one thing...this issue sure seems to split right along the political spectrum.

And I would expect a person who couldn't detect a sarcastic post when its being laid on Rosie O'Donnell thick not to understand that the coach of Romney's team most likely and rightly didnt think a kid would be intentionally walked ina little league game. If you think that youth league baseball games with 9-10 year olds should be managed like game 7 of the world series then please lock your self in your mom's basemant and stick to your rotissery team.

Also Id love to hear how this is spilt politically?

[ESPNFan]

I completely disagree. This kind of thing teaches kids a multitude of valuable lessons: life is always unfair; people are always going to cheat and scratch and toss you on the garbage heap to gain the tiniest, slightest advantage over you; never trust anything from anyone; and always remember that everyone else in the world is out solely for their own interest, and cares less about your feelings than about dog droppings on the sidewalk. Bravo to this coach; he's helping kids learn about how real life really works.

Hmmmm, I don't cheat and scratch and toss people on the garbage heap to gain the tiniest, slightest advantage. I'm a man of my word. And I treat other people with respect until they prove they aren't deserving of it. I care about the feelings of others and every day try to make the world a better place to live.
So much for the life lesson and how the world "really works".

[bhss89]

The line "I'd have done the same thing. It's just good baseball strategy" is very telling.

Does anyone else find it wrong that when we're talking about 9 and 10 year olds, that "baseball strategy" comes into play at all?

If you're a coach of little kids, and you're playing to win, you should go buy a copy of MLB 2006 for Playstation, and leave little kids alone. It's not about you and your manager fantasy, it's about the kids having fun.

Ugh...disgusts me.

Great post. I coach HS as well as help out with my son's 8/9-year old team. Our HS kids are out for blood. The 8/9-year olds like to get as dirty as possible, play hard, and really chow down after their games. Their IS a difference. Baseball strategy my azz at such a young age. The problem with youth sports in general today is the ADULTS!

[Ubiquitous]

Reilly was apparently on the radio talking about this and evidently a lot of people are wondering why the weak cancer kid was batting behind the best player. Apparently (at least according to Reilly) half the team is a bunch of automatic outs so instead of bunching them up at the back end he breaks them up throughout the lineup. How in the world this team got to the Championship game is beyond me. How many teams were in this league? Two?

The more I read and hear about this the more I ask why was this kid even playing in this league. Apparently if this kid got hit in the head he would need a cortisone shot within 30 seconds or he would die. At least according to Reilly. What was this kid doing there?

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Apparently if this kid got hit in the head he would need a cortisone shot within 30 seconds or he would die. At least according to Reilly. What was this kid doing there?

Hence the batting helmet even in the outfield.

His parents should keep him locked in a basement, or in a bubble Seinfeld style.

[Ubiquitous]

Ahh yes the helmet that eliminates all danger, gotcha.


So you got a precious loved one, one that you do not wish to see die. One who if he gets into accident involving his head can die within 30 seconds. What do you do with him? Do you say "Hey Jimmy, you are normal you can do whatever you want" or do you say until you get better we have to be cautious. You can't play in a competitive league of children your own age. For starters it is dangerous, its fast pitch baseball with a bunch of underskilled kids. Secondly all the kids your age are much bigger then you because of your conditions. The chances of injury are too great. how about playing T-Ball with kids your own size but not your age?

I'll say it again, the Kid if he recieves trauma to the head can die within 30 seconds.

[Astro]

Ahh yes the helmet that eliminates all danger, gotcha.


So you got a precious loved one, one that you do not wish to see die. One who if he gets into accident involving his head can die within 30 seconds. What do you do with him? Do you say "Hey Jimmy, you are normal you can do whatever you want" or do you say until you get better we have to be cautious. You can't play in a competitive league of children your own age. For starters it is dangerous, its fast pitch baseball with a bunch of underskilled kids. Secondly all the kids your age are much bigger then you because of your conditions. The chances of injury are too great. how about playing T-Ball with kids your own size but not your age?

I'll say it again, the Kid if he recieves trauma to the head can die within 30 seconds.
I've given up trying to reason, I found talking to my wall easier

[SamtheBravesFan]

A shunt, its a small tube that is inserted into the top of the head and goes down the side of the abdomen to drain the access fluid that collects above the head, I dont think it comes out of thier body, I'm almost positive.

I know all about that. I had to have one when I was a baby. Inside my body and everything. :) Had to have revision surgery on it twice, once to replace the first one entirely. Not fun when it malfunctioned at all. :(

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Pretty sad, I do not remember EVER seeing an intentional walk when I played little league

Yeah me neither.

[flash143817]

And I would expect a person who couldn't detect a sarcastic post when its being laid on Rosie O'Donnell thick not to understand that the coach of Romney's team most likely and rightly didnt think a kid would be intentionally walked ina little league game. If you think that youth league baseball games with 9-10 year olds should be managed like game 7 of the world series then please lock your self in your mom's basemant and stick to your rotissery team.

Also Id love to hear how this is spilt politically?

I will never again waste my time with a post mentioning Rosie O'Donnell, but to answer the bold part, I'll just say that this thread is overall leaning very heavily to the left side...

And regarding the rotisserie comment, if you are implying by that comment that I don't understand the game, then allow me to LOL at that. I am virtually certain that I have both played and watched far more baseball than you have.

I know my Little League teams and leagues always played to win. I wouldn't have it any other way. I played soccer one year in a league that didn't keep score officially and I hated it, even though unofficially my team never lost. I play sports to satisfy my competitive nature, and I'm pretty sure the majority of the participants do so for the same reason.

[flash143817]

Yeah me neither.

I don't either, but I was almost always on the worst team in the league so that may have played a part in it...

[flash143817]

I know all about that. I had to have one when I was a baby. Inside my body and everything. :) Had to have revision surgery on it twice, once to replace the first one entirely. Not fun when it malfunctioned at all. :(

Glad everything worked out for you in the long run.


But would you have expected another manager to play easy on you just because of this?

[flash143817]

Hence the batting helmet even in the outfield.

His parents should keep him locked in a basement, or in a bubble Seinfeld style.


MOORS!

NOPE THE CARD SAYS MOOPS!

[efin98]

Yeah me neither.

I was intentionally walked. In fact I was in the same situation that everyone is complaining about- the championship game with the game on the line, being the weak hitting kid who had health problems in the game when his team needed someone to come through.


My team was on the verge of a comeback in the late inning of the game when the coach on the other team had me intentionally walked to end the inning(mercy rule).

And if you think the coach on the other team was a jerk for doing that to top that off my coach wanted me to strike out to continue the inning so that the best hitter on my team could take advantage of the poor control of the opposing pitcher.

It works both ways, I believe both coaches are in the wrong for different reasons.



And frankly I don't feel sorry for the kid for what happened, it's part of the game and he accepted it. He cried after the incident but so didn't I after I went through my incident- it's an emotional moment. He sucked it up and vowed to work to improve, that alone shows me that he is over it and will make sure it won't happen next year.

[RuthMayBond]

Pretty sure ElHalo was being sarcastic.One never knows . . .
. . . and I think he likes it that way ;)

[VTSoxFan]

Interesting thread -- great discussion. Good points made on both sides. The conclusion I draw is this:

Adults need to get their overweening, micromanaging hands off kids' sports. If they're worried that the kids won't get outside and play without being shoehorned into organized leagues, then hide the damn Playstation and boot the kids out into the sunshine, and let them play the games for themselves. Let 'em make up their own rules and delineate their own fields ("Okay, that rock is first base, that piece of cardboard is second," etc etc.).

If the parents are that competetive that they get all hyperventilated about a Pony League game (or whatever league it was, I forget), let them get their tail ends out on a field of their own and work up a sweat, instead of sitting on the bleachers, and no doubt embarrassing their offspring to the nth degree.

[Imapotato]

Yeah, no kiddin' The coach is a trailblazer and an innovator. Hopefully 10 years from now this kind of "harsh lesson" mentality will be commonly brought down upon all young boys, especially those with cancer. After all, why let them wait to find out reality. Might as well get them started early. Life sucks and people are evil. Lesson learned.


Judging by this thread...America certainly is a "me first" society

Very sad

How people that actually condone this 'manager's' actions is beyon dme

The best LL coaches I have ever seen do the following

1) Bench the best players to get everyone playing time, even the kid who Ks everytime AB
2) Tell everyone they did a good job
3) Buy the hot dogs after the game

Anyone who says kids WANT TO WIN....are sad people and I feel sorry for their upbringing

I was the best player on my team, yet the most popular kid couldn't play a lick...he was a good kid, always helped when you needed it, invited kids over to camp in his backyard where we'd play Ninjas...just couldn't play baseball

Everytime he was up to bat, we cheered him the loudest, and he never felt bad, because we had a coach that made baseball fun....not a stage to test his managerial genius

Most of those guys are players like myself...got so far in baseball and failed. They just can't deal with it, and they are sad unfufilled people, and people who stand up for those individuals are sad pathetic people as well

Baseball is a GAME, not a training ground in order to get your kid a six figure salary

Evertything else I wnated to say, just read VTSOXFAN's post...I couldn't say it any better

[Imapotato]

Pretty sure ElHalo was being sarcastic.


Yes he was but El Halo is a a TRUE New Yawker, so his sarcasm comes up way more subtle then myself :)

Quite a masterful post...sarcasm with a nice sprinkling of cynicism

[RuthMayBond]

Anyone who says kids WANT TO WIN....are sad people and I feel sorry for their upbringingI don't know about your upbringing. I played pickup baseball, NOT Little League, and we wanted to win. We didn't throw at kid's heads, but we still wanted to win. Which is why I usually got picked near the end :laugh :laugh :laugh

[trosmok]

.....those of you who think you can teach this kid something should step back and learn from him.

True this is! Funny that my experience with trying to impart some wisdom about life and baseball on impressionable youngsters and developmentally challenged young adults turned out to be the exact opposite. I'm the one doing the learning and realizing how very little I truly know about either.

[PopTop]

How people that actually condone this 'manager's' actions is beyon dmeI'm not sure about the people who 'condone' the manager's move. But there's a big difference in anyone who condones his decision and those of us, me included, who are not in a great rush to completely and utterly condemn him before we know more. Again, there's never been any mention, in Reilly's story or the local rag's editorial, about what went on before this one at bat or before this one game. It's almost like sitting on a jury and only hearing the prosecution's case before making a judgment of guilt or innocence.

Part of me also would like to know if the local paper covered anything about this kid or this league BEFORE this one incident. Our little paper is a once-a-week publication, and in addition to my other duties in the league, I filed a story every week about our majors and minors divisions. It was pretty sappy stuff, I have to admit, and I purposely tried to highlight a different player on each team every week. I'd be a bit upset (understatement) if the local paper never covered our league when things were going right, and only chose to report on one ugly incident among the adults.

[538280]

These are children. You don't teach kids to stoop to such levels in order to win a petty prize. And yes, a little league championship is petty, despite what anyone-even the kids-may think.

Stoop to such levels? This is not cheating. It's completley within the rules. There is nothing unfair about what they're doing-they're treating the kid exactly like the parents want him to treated-"normal".


Petty prizes are not excuses for this behavoir. And under no circumstances does anyone with a shred of decency in them exploit the weaknesses of a child. If it's high school, fine. Maybe even junoir high. But these are prepubescent children and you don't do that to them.

No one can exploit a child's weaknesses? Would you be opposed to shifts at this level? Would you be opposed to kids playing tennis hitting a certain shot that they know the other player can't return? It seems you want the end of all childen taking part in any kind of competition.


On teaching the kids the game.... I've got a feeling this kid could teach that coach and anyone defending him about the game. This kid gets it. He wasn't in it for the petty prizes. He was playing baseball because he learned at a much too early age just exactly how valueable life is and wanted to enjoy as much of it as he cann.

You're right, it does sound to me like this kid gets it. He gets that the coach treated him normal, the way he should be treated, and that now he will work to improve. I salute the kid. I give a huge thumbs down to the parents and most other people upset with this.


As for the batting order, it's like saying it's okay to steal from a store since the don't nail the stuff down to the floor.

And I've heard of some leagues that have a rule where the players bat either in alphabetical order(I think this is t ball though) or by the position they play on the feild. This league or the coach may have used tht method.

Maybe that was the case, and if that's the case I guess the coach of that team isn't an idiot.

[Imapotato]

I'm not sure about the people who 'condone' the manager's move. But there's a big difference in anyone who condones his decision and those of us, me included, who are not in a great rush to completely and utterly condemn him before we know more. Again, there's never been any mention, in Reilly's story or the local rag's editorial, about what went on before this one at bat or before this one game. It's almost like sitting on a jury and only hearing the prosecution's case before making a judgment of guilt or innocence.

Part of me also would like to know if the local paper covered anything about this kid or this league BEFORE this one incident. Our little paper is a once-a-week publication, and in addition to my other duties in the league, I filed a story every week about our majors and minors divisions. It was pretty sappy stuff, I have to admit, and I purposely tried to highlight a different player on each team every week. I'd be a bit upset (understatement) if the local paper never covered our league when things were going right, and only chose to report on one ugly incident among the adults.


For me it has NOTHING to do with the fact that the kid had cancer

All I needed to hear was a manager intentionally walked a 10 year old

That shows the manager made it about him, not the kids

and RMB, if winning was important, tell me the scores of these pickup games....more then likely you can't, but I am sure you have a funny story about one of your friends doing something silly, or how you used to play

[538280]

For me it has NOTHING to do with the fact that the kid had cancer

All I needed to hear was a manager intentionally walked a 10 year old

That shows the manager made it about him, not the kids


No, I think he made it about the kids on his own team (which is what he should have done!). I know if I were on that team I'd want to win more than anything else. It was a championship game, after all.

[RuthMayBond]

and RMB, if winning was important, tell me the scores of these pickup games....more then likely you can't, but I am sure you have a funny story about one of your friends doing something silly, or how you used to playI do have a story, but I don't know what that has to do with the scores of the games. I doubt you could remember the score of a pickup game . . .
. . . TWENTY-SEVEN YEARS ago :eek: (we need a smiley with a cane, for us who played before Doubleday)

[PopTop]

I wish my sandlot days were just 27 years ago :D

[willie24fan]

The manager did make this game about him.

I view this like John Wooden's coaching of his teams. He prepared them then let them play the game. He was not a big TO guy, did not call a lot of plays.

Here we have the manager calling the shots. At the 9 and 10 year old level, there should not be micromanaging. Every pitch, every play.

Analyzing this based solely on whether this was breaking a rule or not, is wrong. That's the point, at that level of play, there should not be an emphasis on using every single advantage available.

Making fun of someone's mother on the field, that is not "against the rules", but is that acceptable behavior? Just because its not against the rules does not mean its acceptable.

Rules are intended to be the absolute bottom line of acceptability, we have lost sight of the fact that there are other levels of acceptability which should not need to be put in the rulebook; society's levels of decency. Good sportsmanship should not have to be put in a rulebook.

[Gamingboy]

I hate Organized kids sports, and if you ask me, the reason for America's recent decline in Sports excellence on the international stage in Baseball, Basketball, Hockey and other sports is because of organized 'leagues'.

Why? Because while sandlot baseball games and street Basketball/hockey games are impromtu and often unscored affairs. If you weren't included, it was because your so-called 'friends' were really big jerks.


But now everything is so darn organized and is organized towards winning. If you aren't good enough, you end up either riding the bench or being stuck in right field (....like I was). Even the good players are often dissuaded from playing further sports because of win-at-any-cost coaches that make Vince Lombardi look like a soccer mom.

If you ask me, the ONLY times that kids younger then high-school should be playing to win is if their on all-star 'traveling' teams (like those in the Little League World Series), where everybody is the cream of the crop of the town/city they are representing.

This wasn't one of those said 'traveling team' situations. The coach would've still had a pretty good chance of 'winning' the game by pitching to this 'Jordan' kid, the most that would have happened would be that he'd hit in the tying run, but then Romney would likely strike out, and the Yankees would still have a huge chance of capitalizing on the Red Sox bullpen (if this league's bullpens are anything like those back when I played almost a decade ago) to still win the game.

This coach is a jerk, a ass, a bigot and a dolt. I hope he never is allowed to coach another sport again.


Just as a contrast, the Basketball player with Autism? The coach of the team that he was playing against won a sportsmanship award.

[mikethegreat8899]

Listening to the kid's dad wasn't to impressive. Instead of making sure the media knew he considered his kid " the weakest on the team" he can help his own child get better. If it had been any other hitter up, we never would have heard about this, but because the kid had cancer it is a national story.

[flash143817]

If it isn't supposed to be about competitiveness and winning, then the parents shouldn't be throwing a bitchfest when they didn't win.

The kid had the right approach and should be commended, but the parents should be laughed at for trying to live vicariously.

And I can see the complaints about intentionally walking a kid at that age. If only that was just what this was about then we would hear about far more stories than this. Unfortunately, Reilly and the parents were looking to pull at the heartstrings of the readers and by the look of this thread, it has worked.

But thus far, only Imapotato has specifically stated that was his problem with the issue was the intentional walk itself and not that the kid had cancer and was taken advantage of. I can possibly agree with this, as long as it is kept independent from the kid having cancer.

Bottom line with the kid was that he wanted to be "normal" and was treated normally, and he personally had no problem with it. I know what it was like to be the worst hitter (or one of the worst) on the team. I almost quit baseball forever as a 6 year old because I was terrible and hated it. My parents convinced me to at least give it a shot for an entire season and then I could quit after that if I still hated it. By my 9 year old year I was an All Star and remained at that caliber until I retired after my 14 year old year. So I know personally that it is possible to learn from being terrible and improve from it as long as one has the proper attitude and it sounds like Romney does, even if his parents don't.

[ESPNFan]

If it isn't supposed to be about competitiveness and winning, then the parents shouldn't be throwing a bitchfest when they didn't win.

The kid had the right approach and should be commended, but the parents should be laughed at for trying to live vicariously.

And I can see the complaints about intentionally walking a kid at that age. If only that was just what this was about then we would hear about far more stories than this. Unfortunately, Reilly and the parents were looking to pull at the heartstrings of the readers and by the look of this thread, it has worked.

But thus far, only Imapotato has specifically stated that was his problem with the issue was the intentional walk itself and not that the kid had cancer and was taken advantage of. I can possibly agree with this, as long as it is kept independent from the kid having cancer.

Bottom line with the kid was that he wanted to be "normal" and was treated normally, and he personally had no problem with it. I know what it was like to be the worst hitter (or one of the worst) on the team. I almost quit baseball forever as a 6 year old because I was terrible and hated it. My parents convinced me to at least give it a shot for an entire season and then I could quit after that if I still hated it. By my 9 year old year I was an All Star and remained at that caliber until I retired after my 14 year old year. So I know personally that it is possible to learn from being terrible and improve from it as long as one has the proper attitude and it sounds like Romney does, even if his parents don't.

Romey's parents dint't care about winning as much as they cared that their son was singled out for his disability. If they pitched to Jordan and he lost the game or if Romney came up in the normal order of the game and struck out then fine. The fact is the coach of the other team not only intentionally walked Jordan but did it in a fashion that disrespected/embarrassed a ten year old recovering from a medical problem.

An intentional walk at this level in itself is a disgrace beacue the point of sports at this age is to get better and improve. You can't improve if a coach of another team is so intent on winning that he walks you. Its a bush league move just by itself. Add in the fact that they did it while spotlighting the failure of a disabled child and they are the lowest of the low.

And lets put this "He was treated normally" BS to rest. He wasn't treated normally because normally nobody issues an intentional walk at this level. His teammate was walked because his medical situation makes him a weak player and the other coaches took advantage of it. His participation in the game was highlighted for all the wrong reasons by the coaches of the other team.

Other people have stated that an intentional walk at this level is a joke and an indictment on the ethics/sportsmanship/ego's of the opposing coaches, Romney's condition just makes them irrefutable scumbags.

[538280]

Romey's parents dint't care about winning as much as they cared that their son was singled out for his disability. If they pitched to Jordan and he lost the game or if Romney came up in the normal order of the game and struck out then fine. The fact is the coach of the other team not only intentionally walked Jordan but did it in a fashion that disrespected/embarrassed a ten year old recovering from a medical problem.

I disagree it was disrespectful. He did what was best for his team, and treated Romney normal. There is no disrespect in that. The best thing that can happen to this kid now is he works hard to improve his game so a situation like this will not occur again. Like he says, hopefull he will be the one walked sometime.

That comment in itself means the kid even realized that it was not disrespectful towards him, but rather what should be done. The kid realized walking Jordan was logical and he's going to work so he'll be the one walked next in that situation.


An intentional walk at this level in itself is a disgrace beacue the point of sports at this age is to get better and improve. You can't improve if a coach of another team is so intent on winning that he walks you. Its a bush league move just by itself. Add in the fact that they did it while spotlighting the failure of a disabled child and they are the lowest of the low.

Remember that this is a championship game, and the fact there even is a championship game means competitive drive and use of strategical tactics is being promoted. If it was really intended to be all about fun and learning the game, they would not keep standings nor would they have a championship game.


And lets put this "He was treated normally" BS to rest. He wasn't treated normally because normally nobody issues an intentional walk at this level. His teammate was walked because his medical situation makes him a weak player and the other coaches took advantage of it. His participation in the game was highlighted for all the wrong reasons by the coaches of the other team.

This was a textbook example of "when to apply the intentional walk". Considering it was a championship game, and the atmosphere was obviously very competitive there is nothing wrong with issuing the walk, that IS the "normal" move. As far as the cancer issue, you can have as much sympathy as you want, but if he wants to be treated regularly that's what he got. What the parents are asking for here is for the coaches to be sympathetic to him in that situation, but also treat him normally. Hypocrisy IMO.


Other people have stated that an intentional walk at this level is a joke and an indictment on the ethics/sportsmanship/ego's of the opposing coaches, Romney's condition just makes them irrefutable scumbags.

If you want to debate whether or not they should be intentionally walked at all that's a different issue. I have a problem with the sympathetic look at this "they shouldn't have done if because the kid had cancer" more than the whether or not they should intentionally walk at all side.

[Imapotato]

I do have a story, but I don't know what that has to do with the scores of the games. I doubt you could remember the score of a pickup game . . .
. . . TWENTY-SEVEN YEARS ago :eek: (we need a smiley with a cane, for us who played before Doubleday)


That was my point....winning wasn't so important as spending time with your friends

But you have a story...that was the point I was trying to make....kids don't care that much about winning unless their parents and other adults force that unto them

and

53280, go outside, stop posting on the internet 20 hours a day, make some friends...seriously, you may be smart for a 14 yr old, but without experiencing life and having friends, its all for naught. It's sad when a 14 uear old thinks winning is everything in little league

Makes me think you will become a coach like Sean Salisbuiry in the Benchwarmers, giving titty twisters

[flash143817]

Romey's parents dint't care about winning as much as they cared that their son was singled out for his disability. If they pitched to Jordan and he lost the game or if Romney came up in the normal order of the game and struck out then fine. The fact is the coach of the other team not only intentionally walked Jordan but did it in a fashion that disrespected/embarrassed a ten year old recovering from a medical problem.


Where are you getting that from? You are really reading what you want to read between the lines to see that.




An intentional walk at this level in itself is a disgrace beacue the point of sports at this age is to get better and improve. You can't improve if a coach of another team is so intent on winning that he walks you. Its a bush league move just by itself. Add in the fact that they did it while spotlighting the failure of a disabled child and they are the lowest of the low.


Why not?



And lets put this "He was treated normally" BS to rest. He wasn't treated normally because normally nobody issues an intentional walk at this level. His teammate was walked because his medical situation makes him a weak player and the other coaches took advantage of it. His participation in the game was highlighted for all the wrong reasons by the coaches of the other team.

Other people have stated that an intentional walk at this level is a joke and an indictment on the ethics/sportsmanship/ego's of the opposing coaches, Romney's condition just makes them irrefutable scumbags.

Anyone who watched the Little League World Series last night knows that isn't true. The best hitter on the winning team was walked intentionally all 4 times he came up.

[RuthMayBond]

53280, go outside, stop posting on the internet 20 hours a day, make some friends...seriously, you may be smart for a 14 yr old, but without experiencing life and having friends, its all for naught. It's sad when a 14 uear old thinks winning is everything in little league

Makes me think you will become a coach like Sean Salisbuiry in the Benchwarmers, giving titty twistersWow, you know that much about him? :ughh :rolleyes:

[Astro]

That was my point....winning wasn't so important as spending time with your friends

But you have a story...that was the point I was trying to make....kids don't care that much about winning unless their parents and other adults force that unto them

and

53280, go outside, stop posting on the internet 20 hours a day, make some friends...seriously, you may be smart for a 14 yr old, but without experiencing life and having friends, its all for naught. It's sad when a 14 uear old thinks winning is everything in little league

Makes me think you will become a coach like Sean Salisbuiry in the Benchwarmers, giving titty twisters
You need to grow up, just because someone doesnt agree with you you decide to badger them

[ESPNFan]

Where are you getting that from? You are really reading what you want to read between the lines to see that.

It is said in the article that The opposing coach yelled out accross the diamond the instruction to pitch around the slugger to get to Romney and why. Thats being singled out and that is embarrassing.



Anyone who watched the Little League World Series last night knows that isn't true. The best hitter on the winning team was walked intentionally all 4 times he came up.

And as I have said in this thread before, if this is during a game with a select team (a traveling team of the best players) which is what the little league world series team are made up of. In a town league in which everyone plays and there is a cap on runs scored per inning this is a joke and is a reflection on the level of class the coaches who issue such a walk possess which is zero.

[ESPNFan]

I disagree it was disrespectful. He did what was best for his team, and treated Romney normal. There is no disrespect in that. The best thing that can happen to this kid now is he works hard to improve his game so a situation like this will not occur again. Like he says, hopefull he will be the one walked sometime.

That comment in itself means the kid even realized that it was not disrespectful towards him, but rather what should be done. The kid realized walking Jordan was logical and he's going to work so he'll be the one walked next in that situation.

Remember that this is a championship game, and the fact there even is a championship game means competitive drive and use of strategical tactics is being promoted. If it was really intended to be all about fun and learning the game, they would not keep standings nor would they have a championship game.

This was a textbook example of "when to apply the intentional walk". Considering it was a championship game, and the atmosphere was obviously very competitive there is nothing wrong with issuing the walk, that IS the "normal" move. As far as the cancer issue, you can have as much sympathy as you want, but if he wants to be treated regularly that's what he got. What the parents are asking for here is for the coaches to be sympathetic to him in that situation, but also treat him normally. Hypocrisy IMO.

If you want to debate whether or not they should be intentionally walked at all that's a different issue. I have a problem with the sympathetic look at this "they shouldn't have done if because the kid had cancer" more than the whether or not they should intentionally walk at all side.


He absolutely did not treat Romney normally because normally a kid in this type of league isn't pitched around. These kids love getting theri at bats and pitching around even the best kids is cheating them of what they need at this level, practice. I dont care if this is a championship game. At this age you let your kids win it.

I'm sure there are lots of kids in this league that are close to automatic outs. Why not walk every decent hitter and K all the kids that can't hack it? Its moronic and just a copout to call this "good baseball strategy" in a game with 9-10 year olds. There is a lot of "Strategy" that does not need to be implimented while kids are learning the game. And there is no place for strategy that spotlights one childs physical disabilities in exchange for victory.

[RuthMayBond]

It is said in the article that The opposing coach yelled out accross the diamond the instruction to pitch around the slugger to get to Romney and why.It said in what article?

[ESPNFan]

It said in what article?

http://www.clippertoday.com/print_this_story.asp?smenu=4&sdetail=15583


Scream across the diamond to intentionally walk the hitter because the cancer victim is too weak and frail to hit the ball. That way your team can get the easy win, and everyone will commend you for what a brilliant coach you are.

I'll see if I can find more articles that back this up.

[538280]

He absolutely did not treat Romney normally because normally a kid in this type of league isn't pitched around. These kids love getting theri at bats and pitching around even the best kids is cheating them of what they need at this level, practice. I dont care if this is a championship game. At this age you let your kids win it.

They're getting practice at practice, and during the game. It is not true that depriving a kid of one AB in a crucial championship game is depriving him of a chance to improve himself. Last night I (like Flash) saw the LLWs and a batter got intentionally walked 4 times in the game. Why aren't you screaming about that?


I'm sure there are lots of kids in this league that are close to automatic outs. Why not walk every decent hitter and K all the kids that can't hack it? Its moronic and just a copout to call this "good baseball strategy" in a game with 9-10 year olds. There is a lot of "Strategy" that does not need to be implimented while kids are learning the game. And there is no place for strategy that spotlights one childs physical disabilities in exchange for victory.

I disagree. I think in the atmosphere of the game, it was appropriate. We're not going anywhere though, we'll just agree to disagree.

[538280]

53280, go outside, stop posting on the internet 20 hours a day, make some friends...seriously, you may be smart for a 14 yr old, but without experiencing life and having friends, its all for naught. It's sad when a 14 uear old thinks winning is everything in little league

Makes me think you will become a coach like Sean Salisbuiry in the Benchwarmers, giving titty twisters

You have no idea what I do with my free time nor what else I do with my life. I am not interested in taking life lessons from you, and you can stop throwing insults my way when I disagree with you. I'm not the only one you do this to either. Don't you realize you're the only one getting all heated and insulting here? I hadn't even directed any posts at you on this thread.

[ESPNFan]

They're getting practice at practice, and during the game. It is not true that depriving a kid of one AB in a crucial championship game is depriving him of a chance to improve himself. Last night I (like Flash) saw the LLWs and a batter got intentionally walked 4 times in the game. Why aren't you screaming about that?

Because those are teams that are designed to compete at the highest level. Most of those kids were the best players on their own teams. There are no league restrictions on competition and Kids like a Romney Oaks would never even make the team. Your not taking advantage of a weak child if you pitch around someone, they are all skileld just to various degrees.


I disagree. I think in the atmosphere of the game, it was appropriate. We're not going anywhere though, we'll just agree to disagree.

Apparently most of the parents there didnt think it was appropriate because they booed the decision to walk him and the loud embarrassing way it was done.

[flash143817]

http://www.clippertoday.com/print_this_story.asp?smenu=4&sdetail=15583



I'll see if I can find more articles that back this up.


All I can gather from that article is that he ordered an intentional walk. He never yelled out that Romney was the reason for the walk. The part you quoted was an editorial comment by the writer and not really grounded in complete fact.

[AznInvasion]

Intentional walks should not be allowed in that league. If everyone bats, why allow intentional walks? It seems to me like a big cop out to walk a slugger. You gotta beat the slugger not the cancer kid. Not to mention adding to the torment of the cancer kid.

[BaseballHistoryNut]

I remember a game from when I was in 5th grade. I was the best hitter in my league, hands down. Horrible fielder (right field, of course), slow as a snail, but I could murder the ball... and every kid and coach in the league knew it.

We came up in the bottom of the last (6th) inning of this one game, down 16-7. We put on a terrific rally. I doubled my first time up in the inning. Batting behind me was a kid who was, by an enormous margin, the worst hitter on the team. He had absolutely no ability to hit... the offensive version of me on defense, and I was to Little League defense what Dave Kingman was to MLB defense (no exaggeration). That kid struck out and looked pathetic in doing so, but we mounted this huge rally and I got up again. When I did, I was the tying run....

Now, I had terrible foot speed and all, but these were big parks. And the fielders played me deep, but I could really kill the ball. The opposing coach not only knew how good I was with the, but also knew how terrible a hitter the kid behind me was, and that he was only in the lineup because of the league rule that every kid must play at some point in the game. We'd used all of our players and had nobody to substitute for him. It would have been no problem to walk me, the human tortoise, and bring the human out-machine to the plate. His pitcher had good control and would never have walked that guy.

But that's not what the coach did. He let his pitcher pitch to me. And I murdered the ball to RCF. But, thanks to my led feet, I wound up on third. And that poor kid came up, knowing everyone on our team was just dreading it, and struck out on three pitches to end the game, looking just about as terrible as I'm sure he felt inside. He walked off with his father, crying.

That manager could have had his pitcher issue a semi-intentional walk of me. He didn't, and it nearly cost him the game. But that was in 1964, and the world has changed a lot since then. Not for the better.

BHN

[flash143817]

If a player is so pathetic that he starts crying because he knows he is going to fail, then he probably shouldn't be playing and is probably only doing so in order to make his parents happy. Tell him to sac up and go up there with his head high and thinking he can actually do it. He defeated himself before he even stepped into the box.


But like I said before in this thread, why would your manager (or any other manager) bat his worst hitter after his best? I understand the substitution rule that everyone plays, but that is horrible planning by your manager. Assuming you were the best hitter like you said, then you would be hitting 3rd or 4th, meaning that the manager chose to sub out his 4th or 5th batter for his worst hitter. Every team I ever played on the subbed players were at the end of the lineup, not the middle. I'd really be questioning the intelligence of your coach.

[RuthMayBond]

http://www.clippertoday.com/print_this_story.asp?smenu=4&sdetail=15583



I'll see if I can find more articles that back this up.That only implies it, and if it did it just to make the coach look bad but the coach didn't really do it, that's not great either

[BaseballHistoryNut]

If a player is so pathetic that he starts crying because he knows he is going to fail, then he probably shouldn't be playing and is probably only doing so in order to make his parents happy. Tell him to sac up and go up there with his head high and thinking he can actually do it. He defeated himself before he even stepped into the box.


But like I said before in this thread, why would your manager (or any other manager) bat his worst hitter after his best? I understand the substitution rule that everyone plays, but that is horrible planning by your manager. Assuming you were the best hitter like you said, then you would be hitting 3rd or 4th, meaning that the manager chose to sub out his 4th or 5th batter for his worst hitter. Every team I ever played on the subbed players were at the end of the lineup, not the middle. I'd really be questioning the intelligence of your coach.

We were down so far, I'm not sure he cared a lot where the kid went, except to make sure he would get to bat in the bottom of the 6th... having no idea he'd bat twice in that inning, of course. Remember, it was 16-7 when the rally started.

And the REAL point here, which you miss, is that our world in general and our sports world in particular have become so obdurate that people have lost all human compassion. I can tell you exactly what that kid was doing out there: He was there because his DAD wanted him to play Little League. If he'd been given the choice, he wouldn't have been within a mile of that field, because a led-footed, led-gloved slob like me who could hit the hell out of the ball can be a star in baseball, but a guy who's terrible with the bat is just doomed.

For a child to fall apart emotionally because he knew all of his teammates regarded him as the bubonic plague, and because he'd fulfilled all of their worst expectations in a pathetic fashion, is exactly the way a kid should react in that situation. As a shrink would say, it's emotionally appropriate. Is he supposed to pretend he didn't feel crushed? He DID keep a stiff upper lip until he got off of the field and out into the parking lot with his dad, which is where I saw him crying.

It's the fact he was put in that situation that stinks. And for that he had his father to blame, because I'm sure dear old dad could see how horribly talentless his son was at the game, and he nonetheless subjected his son to all of that social disgrace and ridicule.

At least the other team's coach had class. At least he gave me the chance to hit one so far that my led feet and butt could get all the way around the bases and tie the game, before that poor kid struck out. Then maybe I could have gone out in the field in the 7th and committed one of my innumerable errors to blow the game, and save that kid the humiliation.

It really was a different world then. A much kinder world, in which Little League coaches understood that winning their games was not the biggest thing, and in which they realized they had a duty to instill that knowledge in their kids.

[tigers527]

Rick Rielly, he's the one at fault. He was and is being less then impartial, he is being an overbearing moralist and seeking glory by taking advantage of a kid who beat cancer. If that kid got a hit, he writes almost the same story, except for the triumph of the human spirit comes to play? Then does the kid get a call from the president, like the autistic kid who sank 7 three pointers in the last 2 minutes? THE NATION SHOULD NOT KNOW THE RESULTS OF A LITTLE LEAGUE GAME!! Regardless of how those results came to be. That's why the person in the most wrong is Rielly.

To those who refuse to realize that 10 year olds are competive. I remember one of the most competive events of my life. TIMES tables.. you know multiplication, the goal making youself around the whole room. The teacher would flash you a...you guessed it a Flash Card, with a simple multiplication on it. We (we, being the kid behind you and yourself) would shout the answer, and sometimes with other good children the results would, often would be a draw (judged by the teacher). Did I feel bad for those children that myself and a few others blew by? NO, ok maybe a little.

Perhaps, what the coach did was wrong? There is no way to know for sure though, THAT'S WHY RIELLY is wrong. If the coach walked many batters throughout the season to reach "weaker" batters. Then Rielly is really WRONG, regardless of the age of the players. Rielly is, given the age of the children, really WRONG. I mean, would this story be so tear jerking if it happened in high school? HE'S A FREAKING NATIONAL SPORTS WRITER, who is abusing his power, by writing such sappy tripe, over an AB of a child. I thought only Mitch Albom did such things.

The worst of American conditions that this whole story perpetuates, is CHILD WORSHIP syndrome. You know what, no matter how long we hope to keep our kids, kids....they GROW UP. Why do we as a people govern to the youngest of our culture, no wonder kids feel entitled. And I expect people to not be happy with my post. To which I say, I hope one day to have this bumper sticker....My kid beat up your honor student.

BTW could any kid say under 13 fill in these words?
F***
S***
A**H***
I bet you've heard them before? Even 10 year olds. The most profane part of the story....is RICK RIELLYs' involvement.

The worst part of it...I bet these fellows don't get paid (either coaches). I bet Rick Rilley sleeps so nicely, just talking about them, that he should donate a WEEKS salary to that kid, if not more.

[Ubiquitous]

little league coaches are human and thus not easy to group into one lump characteristic. Every year it seems now is some story coming out of some part if this country in which an adult does something in an organized children's sport that many will find inappropriate. Many shake their heads and wonder what has happened to this country. What goes unnoticed is the thousands and thousands of adults who never get an article written about them. This isn't symptomatic of anything, it isn't a sign or an indicator.

[RuthMayBond]

I hope one day to have this bumper sticker....My kid beat up your honor student.The hope we might be thinking of is that you don't reproduce

[tigers527]

The hope we might be thinking of is that you don't reproduce

First off, that's mean....second off, having seen what Indinas fans make, you don't deserve to comment. Besides. TOO MANY PEOPLE reproduce anyway, I would not be the worst.

[Thunder John]

What about the kids who worked hard to win? Don't those coaches owe anything to them? I think so. And part of youth baseball is LEARNING STRATEGY in various situations.

It seems to me the kid who struck out has the best attitude of all. He's not acting like a whiny punk like the parents are. He's getting to work on improving his hitting. Frankly, I hope that kid lives a long, normal healthy life and can shove intentional walks up the oppositions butt.

Finally, this kid has the chance to be the hero. If he'd have smoked a double into the gap, he'd be lauded like the autistic kid scoring 20 points in the last few minute of that high school game. They'd make movies about him and take him to meet the President, too.

And finally, if it was a healthy kid behind the star hitter who hit .200 less, the star hitter would have STILL been walked. To think that the opposing coaches are picking on "the weakest of the flock" or some such is total nonsense. The coaches were playing the game the way it should be played. To win. And frankly, look around society. All this no score-keeping, no grade-keeping, whimpification of our kids really kind of pisses me off. If we don't hold kids accountable to some proper level of standards, we are NOT doing kids any favors. There are people held to no standards all over America. You can usually see them in front of a judge, running from the cops or you lock your doors to protect against them.

[ESPNFan]

That only implies it, and if it did it just to make the coach look bad but the coach didn't really do it, that's not great either


The decision to embarrass the on-deck batter by yelling loudly enough so others could hear that the second batter was a weak opponent and couldn’t hit is wrong when dealing with children that young. I thought the coaches should have had more courtesy than to humiliate a 9-year-old so openly. Especially one who was weak due to his recovery from cancer.

http://www.clippertoday.com/print_this_story.asp?smenu=1&sdetail=15813

That was a follow up peice where the public embarrasment of Romney is stated as fact. If it was not factual then there would have to have been a retraction of some kind by now as there would have been plenty of witnesses to say otherwise.

I say again those coaches are scum.

BTW The Davis county Clipper is the worst paper to navigate in the history of online print media....

[ESPNFan]

And finally confirmation that Romney was not treated "normally".

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14295832/


But in ordering the walk, it’s clear Farley and Farr weren’t doing things in the normal course of the game. Especially with this free pass being the first issued by any team, in the whole league, during that whole season.

Your not treated "normally" when your being singled out in a way that hasn't "normally" happened all season.

Its now fact that the coaches of the Yankees, even with prior knowladge of the boys condition, set him up for failure.

Aslo watch the Video link. Even the Yankee pitcher thought it was a bad idea and tried to pitch to Romney underhanded...IN A CHAMPIONSHIP GAME!!!
So please enough with this "What about the kids that won?" BS. I'm sure the kids on the Yankees wanted to win badly but even they didn't want to win that way. Its's sad when the children on a youth athletic team have a better sence of right and wrong than the coaches who are too caught up playing Earl Weaver.

The best thing about this story is that not only do we find out what a strong bright kid Romney is but the whole world knows what type of inhuman tripe Bob Farley and Shaun Farr really are. I hope you enjoy your Championship, it olny cost you your reputations.

[RuthMayBond]

http://www.clippertoday.com/print_this_story.asp?smenu=1&sdetail=15813

That was a follow up peice where the public embarrasment of Romney is stated as fact. If it was not factual then there would have to have been a retraction of some kind by now as there would have been plenty of witnesses to say otherwise.

I say again those coaches are scum. Thanks for the other link. Personally, I wouldn't put down pond scum by putting in the category with that coach :grouchy

[flash143817]

We were down so far, I'm not sure he cared a lot where the kid went, except to make sure he would get to bat in the bottom of the 6th... having no idea he'd bat twice in that inning, of course. Remember, it was 16-7 when the rally started.

And the REAL point here, which you miss, is that our world in general and our sports world in particular have become so obdurate that people have lost all human compassion. I can tell you exactly what that kid was doing out there: He was there because his DAD wanted him to play Little League. If he'd been given the choice, he wouldn't have been within a mile of that field, because a led-footed, led-gloved slob like me who could hit the hell out of the ball can be a star in baseball, but a guy who's terrible with the bat is just doomed.

For a child to fall apart emotionally because he knew all of his teammates regarded him as the bubonic plague, and because he'd fulfilled all of their worst expectations in a pathetic fashion, is exactly the way a kid should react in that situation. As a shrink would say, it's emotionally appropriate. Is he supposed to pretend he didn't feel crushed? He DID keep a stiff upper lip until he got off of the field and out into the parking lot with his dad, which is where I saw him crying.

It's the fact he was put in that situation that stinks. And for that he had his father to blame, because I'm sure dear old dad could see how horribly talentless his son was at the game, and he nonetheless subjected his son to all of that social disgrace and ridicule.

At least the other team's coach had class. At least he gave me the chance to hit one so far that my led feet and butt could get all the way around the bases and tie the game, before that poor kid struck out. Then maybe I could have gone out in the field in the 7th and committed one of my innumerable errors to blow the game, and save that kid the humiliation.

It really was a different world then. A much kinder world, in which Little League coaches understood that winning their games was not the biggest thing, and in which they realized they had a duty to instill that knowledge in their kids.

I didn't miss that point. That is exactly what I said previously that the kid was playing because he was forced to by his parents. A kid like that didn't want to be there anyway so what is the big deal if he fails? Like you said, it was his father's fault and it would have still been his father's fault even if the other coach had chosen to walk you to get to him.

As far as it being a different world and such with respect to winning, I am willing to bet that overzealous parents caused that to happen much more than coaches did. They all love to live vicariously through their childrens' athletic achievements. And once again they are sticking their nose into an issue that doesn't require it.




And tigers527 and Thunder John nailed this one perfectly with their respective posts on this page. I could not agree more with either of them on this whole "issue".

[ESPNFan]

I didn't miss that point. That is exactly what I said previously that the kid was playing because he was forced to by his parents. A kid like that didn't want to be there anyway so what is the big deal if he fails? Like you said, it was his father's fault and it would have still been his father's fault even if the other coach had chosen to walk you to get to him.

As far as it being a different world and such with respect to winning, I am willing to bet that overzealous parents caused that to happen much more than coaches did. They all love to live vicariously through their childrens' athletic achievements. And once again they are sticking their nose into an issue that doesn't require it.




And tigers527 and Thunder John nailed this one perfectly with their respective posts on this page. I could not agree more with either of them on this whole "issue".

Sorry but when the pitcher of the opposing team sees Romney isn't just some sub .200 hitter but someone who's physical condition warrents him, IN A CHAMPIONSHIP GAME, to be thrown underhanded to, then you guys couldn't be more wrong.

[ESPNFan]

All I can gather from that article is that he ordered an intentional walk. He never yelled out that Romney was the reason for the walk. The part you quoted was an editorial comment by the writer and not really grounded in complete fact.

Read the follow up article I posted and you wil see that it is infact a factual account of what happened. No editorial is required and as I said before if it was a false statement by the author a retraction would have been made by now.

[flash143817]

Read the follow up article I posted and you wil see that it is infact a factual account of what happened. No editorial is required and as I said before if it was a false statement by the author a retraction would have been made by now.

Then the coaches handled it poorly if that is the case. I still don't disagree with their decision, but they could have implemented it in a better (and quieter) way.

[flash143817]

Sorry but when the pitcher of the opposing team sees Romney isn't just some sub .200 hitter but someone who's physical condition warrents him, IN A CHAMPIONSHIP GAME, to be thrown underhanded to, then you guys couldn't be more wrong.

You mean those lower-than-scum coaches would actually allow their pitchers to throw underhand to a batter? Yep, looks like its win-at-all-costs for those guys all the way.

[ESPNFan]

Then the coaches handled it poorly if that is the case. I still don't disagree with their decision, but they could have implemented it in a better (and quieter) way.

There wasn't a single intentional walkissued in that league all year and you still it was the right decision?

[Matthew C.]

Quote from the article:

Farr thinks the Sox coach is a hypocrite. He points out that all coaches put their worst fielder in rightfield and try to steal on the weakest catchers. "Isn't that strategy?" he asks. "Isn't that trying to win? Do we let the kid feel like he's a winner by having the whole league play easy on him?"

Consider this. What if he gets a bloop hit in that same at bat. He would be a hero, and everybody would be praising the idea of giving the boy with cancer a chance to prove he was no different.

This reminds me of a shorts story from Kurt Vonnegut, don't remember the name. Harrison Bergevin maybe. During Olympic races, the fastest people have weights tied on to their legs so they wouldn't be faster than the slow people, so that they didn't feel infererior.

It is a dangerous precendent to start when the level of competition changes based on the ability of who you are competing against.

Also, is it fair to the other team that all of the hard work they did be compromised just so one kids feelings won't be hurt? That seems pretty unfair to the players and parents on the winning team. Why should they suffer because a kid on the other team has gone through a tough time?

Not trying to toot my own horn, but I did hundreds of community service hours with disabled children, enough to get my first 2 years of college paid for, and I couldn't imagine many of the kids I worked with not wanting to get the last at bat.

What did this kid say? "I will just have to practice harder." What a wonderful attitude. Sounds like only the parents are upset.

I can certainly see the other side though. We all wish the family well. Not trying to be insensitive.

[Ubiquitous]

Sorry but when the pitcher of the opposing team sees Romney isn't just some sub .200 hitter but someone who's physical condition warrents him, IN A CHAMPIONSHIP GAME, to be thrown underhanded to, then you guys couldn't be more wrong.


I saw the video and you are inferring a lot to say that the opposing pitcher wanted to throw underhand to Romney. What I saw and heard was Romney's dad say the opposing pitcher didn't want to walk Jordan and wanted to slow pitch Romney. He doesn't explain how he knows this. In fact nobody yet as far as I know has reported what actually happened in that game. How does this dad know what the pitcher wanted to do? Was the kid about to toss underhand and the coach stopped him? Did he ask questions? what happened? We don't know.

Second thing I like to note is that the video of Romney swinging in his backyard and his swing isn't anything close to a drag bunt like one of the articles stated (another example of media manipulation). Nor if you look at the video does Romney look like some freak kid. He looks like a kid, he walks like, and he acts like a kid. He wasn't Timmy in a wheelchair drooling down his shirt. He looks like a kid who just wasn't that good at baseball. His own dad said that this season was his first season playing baseball. To me the cancer issue is a non-issue. It shouldn't even be a part of the discussion. From watching the video I wouldn't say hey there goes a kid with cancer.

[Astro]

Why the hell are the parents doing interviews? Looks to me like the parents want some attention

[ESPNFan]

Why the hell are the parents doing interviews? Looks to me like the parents want some attention

Parents don't just "do interviews". The story had legs and a show wanted to do a interview with them. Watch it, Romney's dad comes off as pretty levelheaded and not some publicity hound as you assert. Hell If I was Romney's dad I'd do it just to make sure the coaches of the other team get the "publicity" they deserve ;)

[flash143817]

There wasn't a single intentional walkissued in that league all year and you still it was the right decision?

I don't know if it was the right decision automatically, but I certainly don't find it deplorable.


Sorry but I'm just not a bleeding heart that is going to jump all over every supposed sob story. I try to look at the picture through my eyes and not that of a writer and that is the conclusion that I came to.


And I agree completely with Ubiquitous and STLCards. The kid is a normal kid that hasn't played before, and because of that and not the cancer he sucks.

The parents were going to find a way to complain if the opposing pitcher did anything short of hold the ball on a tee to the kid if/when he failed. Sad that parents are choosing to use their son's misfortune to gain a lot of media attention. His own father called him the worst hitter on the team. Not a lot of confidence in your own son when you say that. His dad has a loser attitude, but luckily from the account of the story that attitude has not filtered down to Romney.

[ESPNFan]

I don't know if it was the right decision automatically, but I certainly don't find it deplorable.


Sorry but I'm just not a bleeding heart that is going to jump all over every supposed sob story. I try to look at the picture through my eyes and not that of a writer and that is the conclusion that I came to.


And I agree completely with Ubiquitous and STLCards. The kid is a normal kid that hasn't played before, and because of that and not the cancer he sucks.

The parents were going to find a way to complain if the opposing pitcher did anything short of hold the ball on a tee to the kid if/when he failed. Sad that parents are choosing to use their son's misfortune to gain a lot of media attention. His own father called him the worst hitter on the team. Not a lot of confidence in your own son when you say that. His dad has a loser attitude, but luckily from the account of the story that attitude has not filtered down to Romney.

And Now Im a bleeding heart eh? Its obvious you want to turn this into some type of political referendum but its not going to work that way. Sorry.

And I'm glad you can read the parents minds, you should put that talent to good use at the casino.

[Matthew C.]

I don't know if it was the right decision automatically, but I certainly don't find it deplorable.


Sorry but I'm just not a bleeding heart that is going to jump all over every supposed sob story. I try to look at the picture through my eyes and not that of a writer and that is the conclusion that I came to.


And I agree completely with Ubiquitous and STLCards. The kid is a normal kid that hasn't played before, and because of that and not the cancer he sucks.

The parents were going to find a way to complain if the opposing pitcher did anything short of hold the ball on a tee to the kid if/when he failed. Sad that parents are choosing to use their son's misfortune to gain a lot of media attention. His own father called him the worst hitter on the team. Not a lot of confidence in your own son when you say that. His dad has a loser attitude, but luckily from the account of the story that attitude has not filtered down to Romney.

Just for the record, I never claimed that the parents were publicity hounds or that the child's lack of ability was not due to his cancer. I don't necessarily believe either of these two things.

[flash143817]

Just for the record, I never claimed that the parents were publicity hounds or that the child's lack of ability was not due to his cancer. I don't necessarily believe either of these two things.

Sorry about the way I ordered my post. I pointed out that I agreed with your post and then decided to post my own idea following that and I could see how it could be mistakenly taken as your thoughts when I posted that way.

[flash143817]

And Now Im a bleeding heart eh? Its obvious you want to turn this into some type of political referendum but its not going to work that way. Sorry.

And I'm glad you can read the parents minds, you should put that talent to good use at the casino.

LOL I was simply pointing out that I'm not a bleeding heart with these types of issues. I never stated that you were or weren't. And it might have been a different thread, but I believe I stated earlier in the thread that I thought the opinions were a giveaway of the politics of the respective posters, but that I would try to avoid it going down that road. But since you asked, my guess would be that yes, you are a bleeding heart. But that's as far as I'm going to go with politics in this thread.


I'm not sure why I'm a mind reader except to point out what seemed obvious to me that the parents were thrilled to get their story in the media. I could come up with different reasons why they would want this story to reach the mainstream media.

As far as the casino comment and reading people, poker is one of my favorite hobbies and I consider myself a very good reader of people most of the time, although that has little relevance to this issue.

[trosmok]

......
This reminds me of a shorts story from Kurt Vonnegut,........
It is a dangerous precendent to start when the level of competition changes based on the ability of who you are competing against.......

What did this kid say? "I will just have to practice harder." What a wonderful attitude. Sounds like only the parents are upset.

I can certainly see the other side though.......

Well said, and congratulations on having worked with special kids. Only those of us that have done so can truly appreciate the skills required to help them acheive as much normalcy as their conditions allow.

The theme of a "handicapper general" to level all playing fields has appeared in a few of Vonnegut's works, and shows how counter-productive extreme efforts to afford equality can get. By the same token, attempting to crush youthful weaklings to preserve the survival of the fittest is one of the worst aspects of fascists. Both excesses are unequivocally wrong. Most people are moderates with more important things to do than get all bent about a little league game, or scribbling about it ad nauseum. Kids are surprisingly resilient, and like other posters have said, if the weak hitter can lick cancer, improving his swing will be a piece of cake by comparison. The only pity I feel is for the adults unable to see another's pov, and for the coach who continues to contradict himself by claiming he didn't know who was on deck, and that he was was going to intentionally walk the best hitter regardless. You can tell he's lying because his lips are moving and sound is coming out. Poor fool.

[sandlot]

The only person in this story who sounds healthy is the kid, and he's the one with cancer. Go figure. Let's all light a candle or raise a glass and wish him full and fast recovery. :clapping

[Lee SW IL]

I have not seen it mentioned before, but I just skimmed through the posts.

My questions . . .
What if the cancer kid gets a hit and wins the game? None of this is brought up.

Why isn't cancer kids coach being blamed? You don't put your weakest hitter behind your best hitter. There is a reason, Scott Rolen bats behind Albert Puljos and not Yadier Molina.

IMO, I do think the kids parents want press, (face time). They've went through some tough times. But, they do not want their kid to be treated like all the others. If they did, this would have NEVER been brought up.

This being a Championship game. It IS competitive, I don't care if they are 9- 12 16 or 6. Both teams want to win. Next thing I'm going to hear, is that all the kids should get a trophy, not just the team that won.

Baseball is game. A game that keeps score. A game that is played to win. One team wins, one team looses. In baseball there are a lot of life lessons.

[ESPNFan]

LOL I was simply pointing out that I'm not a bleeding heart with these types of issues. I never stated that you were or weren't. And it might have been a different thread, but I believe I stated earlier in the thread that I thought the opinions were a giveaway of the politics of the respective posters, but that I would try to avoid it going down that road. But since you asked, my guess would be that yes, you are a bleeding heart. But that's as far as I'm going to go with politics in this thread.


I'm not sure why I'm a mind reader except to point out what seemed obvious to me that the parents were thrilled to get their story in the media. I could come up with different reasons why they would want this story to reach the mainstream media.

As far as the casino comment and reading people, poker is one of my favorite hobbies and I consider myself a very good reader of people most of the time, although that has little relevance to this issue.

Born, raised, and registered Republican in Massachusetts but lean more Libertarian (The classic definition of that and not a supporter of the people that currently carry that tile publicly.) So your pretty far off in your assumption. This issue isn't about bleeding hearts and political beliefs and trying to catagorize it as that is missing the point. It's about what people think the coaches of 9-10 year old boys should do, and what they did do given the situation, they way they publicly went about it and with the prior knowledge that they had about the boy they put the spotlight on.

And I honestly don't understand where your drawing the conclusion that the parents are publicity hounds. This was a local story that was so contentiously argued in local papers that it was picked up on by National Media outlets because of its details. The Local Sports writer ran this story at the end of June, so as they say in the business the story has legs. Rick Reilly, Keith Oberman etc.. aren't going to run with a story because Romney's parents called and lobbied for it. Thats just more wild assumptions on your part to suppot your veiw.

Or that his father called Romney the worst hitter on the team. Keith Oberman called him that, and then stated that Romney himself would dispute that. Nor does anyone think that Romney's parents wanted their kid to hit it off of a tee because he is weaker. I'm absolutely positive that if Romney Oaks failed in the natural course of the game with the best Yankee pitcher throwing three straight heaters by him we would have never heard his name or that his parents would have said anything aside from "Nice try you'll get him next time".



BTW I stated that the pitcher on the Yankees wanted to pitch underhand to Romney, this was incorrect and it was only said that he wanted to pitch slow to him. Sorry for error.

[ESPNFan]

I have not seen it mentioned before, but I just skimmed through the posts.

My questions . . .
What if the cancer kid gets a hit and wins the game? None of this is brought up.

Why isn't cancer kids coach being blamed? You don't put your weakest hitter behind your best hitter. There is a reason, Scott Rolen bats behind Albert Puljos and not Yadier Molina.

IMO, I do think the kids parents want press, (face time). They've went through some tough times. But, they do not want their kid to be treated like all the others. If they did, this would have NEVER been brought up.

This being a Championship game. It IS competitive, I don't care if they are 9- 12 16 or 6. Both teams want to win. Next thing I'm going to hear, is that all the kids should get a trophy, not just the team that won.

Baseball is game. A game that keeps score. A game that is played to win. One team wins, one team looses. In baseball there are a lot of life lessons.


The issue isn't for me and probably for the parents hasn't been about winning or losing, or Romney striking out or getting a hit, the issue has been how his failure was designed and spotlighted by the coaches of the other team. At this age that is not what a kid playing his first season of baseball needs.

You can't fault Romneys coach for the batting order if there were no Intentional walks issued all season.

And honestly if Romney did get a hit I bet would still hear the story with a much happier ending given all the circumstances but that Disney or some other Film studio would clamor to buy the rights to his story.

[RuthMayBond]

You can't fault Romneys coach for the batting order if there were no Intentional walks issued all season.Intentional walks or not, the order wasn't good baseball strategy. But not all managers pay attention to that. I constantly tell my softball coach to bat me last and sometimes he still doesn't. I have a mediocre average, absolutely no power, but if I do manage to get on I can run about as fast as the leadoff guy so I won't clog him on the bases.

[flash143817]

Born, raised, and registered Republican in Massachusetts but lean more Libertarian (The classic definition of that and not a supporter of the people that currently carry that tile publicly.) So your pretty far off in your assumption. This issue isn't about bleeding hearts and political beliefs and trying to catagorize it as that is missing the point. It's about what people think the coaches of 9-10 year old boys should do, and what they did do given the situation, they way they publicly went about it and with the prior knowledge that they had about the boy they put the spotlight on.

And I honestly don't understand where your drawing the conclusion that the parents are publicity hounds. This was a local story that was so contentiously argued in local papers that it was picked up on by National Media outlets because of its details. The Local Sports writer ran this story at the end of June, so as they say in the business the story has legs. Rick Reilly, Keith Oberman etc.. aren't going to run with a story because Romney's parents called and lobbied for it. Thats just more wild assumptions on your part to suppot your veiw.

Or that his father called Romney the worst hitter on the team. Keith Oberman called him that, and then stated that Romney himself would dispute that. Nor does anyone think that Romney's parents wanted their kid to hit it off of a tee because he is weaker. I'm absolutely positive that if Romney Oaks failed in the natural course of the game with the best Yankee pitcher throwing three straight heaters by him we would have never heard his name or that his parents would have said anything aside from "Nice try you'll get him next time".



BTW I stated that the pitcher on the Yankees wanted to pitch underhand to Romney, this was incorrect and it was only said that he wanted to pitch slow to him. Sorry for error.

Hmm a fellow libertarian leaner, nice.

But as far as the dad's comments: ""It made me sick," says Romney's dad, Marlo Oaks. "It's going after the weakest chick in the flock." "

And Romney has already visited the White House and now had this story written about him. Doesn't sound like the parents are exactly quiet about people knowing about his story.

And I disagree that nothing would have been said had he failed without the IBB. The point of the story would have been different, but it still would have been written.

[RuthMayBond]

From the ESPN article:

"If the kid gets a hit, we've got a Disney movie," Craig Parry, the league president, told ESPN.com. "At the moment it happened, nobody thought it was a big deal. And now, it's the lead story."

[Imapotato]

Some of you guys need to wath the "Bad News Bears Again"


Great ending....

[flash143817]

From the ESPN article:

"If the kid gets a hit, we've got a Disney movie," Craig Parry, the league president, told ESPN.com. "At the moment it happened, nobody thought it was a big deal. And now, it's the lead story."


Good thing we have the media and media-hounding parents to let us know how we should be moralizing the situation.

[DownUnderDodger]

Regardless of what 'handicap' any kid may have, if he is playing in a game where everyone is supposedly treated equally, and all kids get a game, why on earth should "baseball strategy" be considered. These are 9-10 year old kids who are out there supposedly having fun. There is way too much pressure on young kids to WIN at whatever costs, and that is not good for the kids. But don't blame the kids, blame the parents and coaches/managers (many of whom probably have kids in the team). They are the ones who instill the WIN at all costs attitude on the kids. As for the kid with cancer and the game in question, I have no comment as all I know about it is what I read in the article, and I obviously don't know all the facts of the story. The bottom line is that 9-10yo kids don't need the "baseball strategy" argument put into their games (at that age it is still a game, not a sport!!) Same applies to any game/sport for kids at that age!!

[trosmok]

.... The bottom line is that 9-10yo kids don't need the "baseball strategy" argument put into their games...

Right as rain, DownUnderDodger, and I'd like to bend the discussion here a tiny bit. Not to downplay the legs this story has grown, but the use of the word "strategy" has been used incorrectly by most parties who have commented. Walking the kid is more appropriately a tactic; "a procedure or set of maneuvers engaged in to acheive an end, aim, or goal." Strategy is a broader term applied to the overall planning and conduct of the endeavor or operation, or a general course of action. Limitations on strategy include the rules of that particular league, including the time limit and requirement that everyone bat. Not exactly pure baseball for those keeping score. Finally, the goal in baseball is usually to win, but at the 9-10 year old level, ther should also be other goals in mind, unless you believe Machiavelli should rule the diamond, from T-ball on up. Reminds a bit of that scene where the King asks his Prince "what is best in life?" The son replies "the open steppe, on a good steed, with wind blowing in my face." The King then asks Conan who mechanically says "to crush your enemies before you and hear the lamentations of their women." :eek: I guess I prefer Red Barber to Gov. Arnold myself.

[calvin12]

He wasn't treated normal. His weakness was exploited in a grotesque manner imo. I'm extremely anti-PC. I would normally fall on the other side of an issue like this, but the age of the boys, the condition of Romney, and the comments from the coach won't allow it.

Didn't Reilly say he had a tube coming out of his head?

Yeah he was grossly exploited, by his own coach batting him behind the best hitter. That coach knew that most other coaches would cave in to the pressure to pitch to the good hitter, rather than playing the game the right way and pitching to an easier hitter. I say congrats to the coach who chose to walk him and show his kids that you play to your advantage, the point of the game is to win within the rules. I'm glad he didn't cave in. If I was the good hitter I'd be pissed that my coach was using the cancer patient as a cheap attempt to get me more hits.

[calvin12]

My thoughts exactly

Your are not a 'manager' in little league, you are a mentor to teach the game and get kids off of their vide games and learn the greatest game ever invented

No one should have an intentional walk in little league

and the kid with cancer SOBBED himself to sleep that night....that is ok with you??????

As for the kids

I don't recall one win, lose or tie in little league

I remember after the game, we got a free snowcone


part of teaching the game is teaching strategy.
is it ok that he "sobbed himself to sleep"? yes it is. you are in a sport there is a winning side and a losing side, if youcan't deal with that don't play. I played on little league and school leagues when I was young, we stunk, we lost, we dealt with it. If we weren't willing to risk losing we could have stayed home.

[ESPNFan]

Yeah he was grossly exploited, by his own coach batting him behind the best hitter. That coach knew that most other coaches would cave in to the pressure to pitch to the good hitter, rather than playing the game the right way and pitching to an easier hitter. I say congrats to the coach who chose to walk him and show his kids that you play to your advantage, the point of the game is to win within the rules. I'm glad he didn't cave in. If I was the good hitter I'd be pissed that my coach was using the cancer patient as a cheap attempt to get me more hits.

Try reading through the thread and you will see the posts where Reilly is noted saying that the batting order is created with a good hitter bad hitter sequence so there are no long stretches of outs. Also because there we no Intentional walks issued all season in the league there is no reason to protect his best hittter.

To intimate that the Coach of Romney "Exploited" him to "force" other coaches to pitch to Jordan has no basis in fact and is almost outright character assassination.


And trosmok...

You get the days high score for incorperating one of my favorite movie quotes into this discussion:laugh

[calvin12]

Try reading through the thread and you will see the posts where Reilly is noted saying that the batting order is created with a good hitter bad hitter sequence so there are no long stretches of outs. Also because there we no Intentional walks issued all season in the league there is no reason to protect his best hittter.

To intimate that the Coach of Romney "Exploited" him to "force" other coaches to pitch to Jordan has no basis in fact and is almost outright character assassination.


And trosmok...

You get the days high score for incorperating one of my favorite movie quotes into this discussion:laugh


I have read through the thread and saw the post you mentioned, that doe snot changethe fact he put the worst better behind the best one. Even if you are scattering bad hitter through the lineup youd put the best bad one in that position, not the worst one. There are claims there had been no intentional walks all year, if thats true maybe it ws in part due to other coaches not wanting to take the heat for doing what was right to have your kids win the game.

[ESPNFan]

part of teaching the game is teaching strategy.
is it ok that he "sobbed himself to sleep"? yes it is. you are in a sport there is a winning side and a losing side, if youcan't deal with that don't play.

I have read through the thread and saw the post you mentioned, that doe snot changethe fact he put the worst better behind the best one. Even if you are scattering bad hitter through the lineup youd put the best bad one in that position, not the worst one. There are claims there had been no intentional walks all year, if thats true maybe it ws in part due to other coaches not wanting to take the heat for doing what was right to have your kids win the game.

So by your logic it would be acceptable for a coach of 9-10 year olds playing basketball to employ a "Hack a Shaq" strategy and repeatedly foul the worst shooter on the other team over and over all game long. You can use your worst players to do it as well. Wo cares if your players never get a chance to improve and the kid that's repeatedly fouled weakness are spotlighted repeatedly and he cry's himself to sleep right. It's all about winning and that's just good basketball strategy right? :evil

Seriously people need to realise there is no place for a "Just Win Baby" wanna be Al Davis in youth sports at this level. These guys need to stick to their fantasy leagues where kids won't have to suffer for thier lack of maturity and a understanding of the big picture.

[willie24fan]

Notice how every other word is "win"?

There is way too much emphasis on "winning" throughout sports in America (and perhaps the world).

People use sports as an indicator/training ground for success in life/professionally but its not. Yes you learn some important lessons (IMV teamwork, preparation, personal excellence) but "winning at all costs" does not translate well to life/profession/work.

You excel at work because you do the best you can, not because you exploit someone else. And if you do? I hope you suffer from Poe's "tell tale heart."

[Ursa Major]

My 2 cents on the situation:

First, anyone who's been in the middle of news stories know that reporters screw up a lot of facts, particularly when it helps makes their stories more dramatic, and here there are a lot of overwrought people trying to make themselves appear good. Some things don't appear right -- NO intentional walks, Romney right up behind the best kid in the lineup? I've known coaches who would do just what Calvin suggests -- put a kid like Romney up behind the best hitter to protect him. The coach who did so, for whatever reason, has gotta take some responsibility for the situation. And, what is the connection between his cancer treatment and his inability to make contact with the ball? Was he barred by doctors from practicing? Did treatment take up too much time? Sure, he had impediments in becoming a ballplayer, but if he could play he could practice.

Second, the 'offending' coach screwed up on several accounts. He coulda pitched carefully to Jordan, but chose to just IBB him; this not only was bad form (if there were four pitches just off the plate, there's no story), but it really thrust the label of "you suck" on Romney. I don't think he had to groove the ball to Jordan -- just pitch to him as though an average hitter was coming up behind him him. And, his sanctimonious lying ("I didn't know he had cancer") and defensiveness ("Everyone would have done it") makes him look like a win-at-all-costs, let's-make-excuses coach. Then again, he obviously doesn't have a press agent. I would love to see a coach in this situation say, "Yeah, I got caught up in the heat of the moment and made a mistake. You should pitch to the kid who's up at bat, since this is just youth ball." But who admits to making mistakes in this day and age?

Third, the people who chose to make it an issue strike me as the sort who love to find something to complain about -- to point at others as being non-PC. Who are they helping in this situation? It should all be about Romney, and I don't see how he's being helped by making him a cause celebre. I remember shedding tears as a 9 year old after making the last out in two consecutive games, and I don't think I treated it as maturely as Romney did.

I'm as critical of win-at-all-costs ball as anyone and am offended by intentional walks, but I recognize that others may differ and I don't think that what the coach did was as heinous as some would have it. I've seen coaches pull worse stunts, but no one called Sports Illustrated on 'em. The coach was a jerk, but not a criminal.

And next year, I want Romney on my team.

[calvin12]

So by your logic it would be acceptable for a coach of 9-10 year olds playing basketball to employ a "Hack a Shaq" strategy and repeatedly foul the worst shooter on the other team over and over all game long. You can use your worst players to do it as well. Wo cares if your players never get a chance to improve and the kid that's repeatedly fouled weakness are spotlighted repeatedly and he cry's himself to sleep right. It's all about winning and that's just good basketball strategy right? :evil

Seriously people need to realise there is no place for a "Just Win Baby" wanna be Al Davis in youth sports at this level. These guys need to stick to their fantasy leagues where kids won't have to suffer for thier lack of maturity and a understanding of the big picture.

Last I heard they didn't walk the good hitter all game, they did it in one important part of the game. Not exactly a "foul him all game" equivalent. Its not a matter of win at all costs, what he did was the right move, that if it had been any other hitter coming up next any coach would have. How would the kids on the yankees have felt if they would have lost by pitching to the good player when they knew they should have pitched around him. These kids see baseball on TV. They know when the 8 hole batter is up he gets walked to face the pitcher. The red sox coach was a jag for using the sick kid to protect the good one. He could have put him anywhere else in the lineup to scatter the bad kids around, he chose to do it right after teh best hitter on purpose. The coach also claimed there are a bunch of bad hitters so he would scatter them around so as not to have a bunch of automatic outs. If the teams was that bad they would not have been in the championship.

[flash143817]

My 2 cents on the situation:

First, anyone who's been in the middle of news stories know that reporters screw up a lot of facts, particularly when it helps makes their stories more dramatic, and here there are a lot of overwrought people trying to make themselves appear good. Some things don't appear right -- NO intentional walks, Romney right up behind the best kid in the lineup? I've known coaches who would do just what Calvin suggests -- put a kid like Romney up behind the best hitter to protect him. The coach who did so, for whatever reason, has gotta take some responsibility for the situation. And, what is the connection between his cancer treatment and his inability to make contact with the ball? Was he barred by doctors from practicing? Did treatment take up too much time? Sure, he had impediments in becoming a ballplayer, but if he could play he could practice.

Second, the 'offending' coach screwed up on several accounts. He coulda pitched carefully to Jordan, but chose to just IBB him; this not only was bad form (if there were four pitches just off the plate, there's no story), but it really thrust the label of "you suck" on Romney. I don't think he had to groove the ball to Jordan -- just pitch to him as though an average hitter was coming up behind him him. And, his sanctimonious lying ("I didn't know he had cancer") and defensiveness ("Everyone would have done it") makes him look like a win-at-all-costs, let's-make-excuses coach. Then again, he obviously doesn't have a press agent. I would love to see a coach in this situation say, "Yeah, I got caught up in the heat of the moment and made a mistake. You should pitch to the kid who's up at bat, since this is just youth ball." But who admits to making mistakes in this day and age?

Third, the people who chose to make it an issue strike me as the sort who love to find something to complain about -- to point at others as being non-PC. Who are they helping in this situation? It should all be about Romney, and I don't see how he's being helped by making him a cause celebre. I remember shedding tears as a 9 year old after making the last out in two consecutive games, and I don't think I treated it as maturely as Romney did.

I'm as critical of win-at-all-costs ball as anyone and am offended by intentional walks, but I recognize that others may differ and I don't think that what the coach did was as heinous as some would have it. I've seen coaches pull worse stunts, but no one called Sports Illustrated on 'em. The coach was a jerk, but not a criminal.

And next year, I want Romney on my team.

Man this post was right on the money. Both sides are at fault here. I don't necessarily agree with what the coaches did, but they could have done it in a better manner.

I was going to highlight certain parts where I agreed with this post, but then I realized that I would be highlighting the entire post.

[willie24fan]

For a nice perspective on kids and adults here's SI's Verducci:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/tom_verducci/08/15/ripken.series/index.html

[Lee SW IL]

Why even keep score??? Give everyone a trophy and tell them there all great. Give me a break.

For those that think 9-10 yr olds don't need baseball strategy is ludicrous. It part of learning the game. You have to start sometime. At 9-10 its a good time to start. I would guess the pitcher already knew to not give the stud anything to hit, because he was such a stud, and he knew he would have a better chance of getting the next batter. The coach just confirmed it.
For the kids that want to play COMPETITIVE baseball, I have no problem walking the stud.

Those that want to play rec, fine. I have no problem with rec ball, and baseball strategy in rec is totally different.

I have two boys 11 and 8. 11 is all baseball, on a select team, i've seen it all. I've seen 1 team squeeze when they were winning 11-3 in the 3rd.

8 yr old, different story, likes other things, plays rec ball. Its a totally different game.

[Ursa Major]

Willie24Fan said: For a nice perspective on kids and adults here's SI's Verducci:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ies/index.html
Willie, thanks for the link. Now there's an adult who gets it. Two of my favorite comments:

First, about the umpire who didn't want kids wasting "his" time. I see all too much of that at all levels. Hey, bucko, it's never, ever about you.

Second good point: bowling! It's a great team bonding event and I never was able to pinpoint why until Verducci put his finger on it: the coolness of being able to knock things down indoors without parental permission. And, it's often the .150 hitter who's the stud of the bowling alley; it's a great way to even out the social hierarchy on the team.

Flash, thanks for the kind words. Come to think of it, almost any time you see parents rallying around some kids' sports issues (unless it's an effort to simply open up or renovate a field), there's likely to be some adult agenda being served irrespective of what helps the kids.

A nationally known expert on child development issues, Michael Thompson, lectured at our son's school and made an important point. If you get too heated up about some issue that troubles your kid -- say, a social slight by a classmate -- your child may become "invested" in the importance of a "problem" that, if left alone, will simply dissipate. The kid may then feel that he has to worry about and "resolve" the "problem" because his parents feel it's important to do so.

Making Romney feel victimized because he was set up to "fail" certainly makes him feel that he did "fail". I don't know about you guys, but a lotta our kids strike out all the time. But, I take 'em aside and tell 'em what was good about the at-bat. E.g., "Hey, that was a successful at-bat. You swung at good pitches, you laid off the bad stuff, you battled and fouled off a few, your technique that we were working on was good in XX way, [and/or] he made an unhittable pitch for strike three. You did your job and it didn't result in a hit this time. Nothing to get upset about; next time maybe it will result in a hit."

In our last game this spring, we were eliminated in the playoffs by a weaker team due to some misplays by some our best players. Our last batter was a solid, mid-level player. He battled an all-star pitcher for about eight pitches, fouling off five before striking out. He came back to the bench without a trace of sorrow, and was congratulated by all for his tough AB. He knew he'd done his best and that the deficit he was trying to overcome was not of his making. No one thought he'd failed, and everyone rallied around at the post-game snack to focus on the good year the team had had.

[trosmok]

....
And trosmok...

You get the days high score for incorperating one of my favorite movie quotes into this discussion:laugh

Thanks. People that scare me the most are the ones that lack a sense of humor; more than than the neanderthals, more than the barbarians, and certanly more than the folks with too much time on their hands engaging in meaningless demonstrations.
When it comes to kids, though, far too many adults want them to grow and develop the way they wished they had. Believe you me that is a recipe for disaster, as several others here have alluded to as well. Just look at the number of misguided posters regarding the "win 'cause that's the name of the game!" philosophy that someone plugged into a small brain, and it clogged up all ability to see the efficacy of other goals. The SI columnist, without being all ham-handed, struck a real chord with me when urging adults: "Childhood passes quickly enough; don't rush it." A big amen from this corner of the congregation.

[Ursa Major]

"If you lover her, let her go. If she doesn't come back, she might be with me." Tros, what movie is that a quote from? And it IS a great line. ((But, not to get all pedantic on you, but you might want to fix "lover" and make it "love".))

[W_Marone]

Here's a question I would like to pose to all of you guys on here. What if the kid was not a cancer surivior recovering? What if he was just awful, would that change your opinion on this coach? Just a question.

[sandlot]

No. The world is too damned full of adults trying to live out their failures and fantasies through children. Using kids as proxies stinks. The song got it right: "Teachers, leave the kids alone."

[BigStellyPADRES4LIFE]

He played in a competitive little league and if he cant live with the way the game is played then he shouldnt be playing.

[rwolfe09]

That is cruel to do such a thing to the poor kid. I mean not only was the game on his shoulders but they were pretty much picking on the kid because of his problems.

[trosmok]

Tros, what movie is that a quote from? And it IS a great line.

Had the sig quote wrong, also. Appreciate all the help I can get maintaining veracity.:rolleyes:

The 1982 film "Conan the Barbarian", starring Arnold Schwarzenegger was where the quote came from. While not 100% word for word, the meaning is all there. He was paraphrasing Gengis Kahn who we all know lived in an era where ruthless, heartless, pragmaticism was actually needed in order for survival. (As opposed to some misguided adults trying to ruin a good kids' game in this day and age by employing similar tactics.)

Oh, here's the link: http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0082198/

[willie24fan]

Here's a question I would like to pose to all of you guys on here. What if the kid was not a cancer surivior recovering? What if he was just awful, would that change your opinion on this coach? Just a question.

Failure is fine, yes that's a part of life.

A PARENT, not a kid, embarassing a kid, any kid, is not to be condoned.

Yes its a competitive league, but for whom? The kids? Or is it the coaches?

[MyDogSparty]

53280, go outside, stop posting on the internet 20 hours a day, make some friends...seriously, you may be smart for a 14 yr old, but without experiencing life and having friends, its all for naught. It's sad when a 14 uear old thinks winning is everything in little league

Actually, when you think about it, the fact that he's only 14 years old (only 3~4 years removed from the very league being discussed) may explain a lot regarding his position on this issue.

[wamby]

Actually, when you think about it, the fact that he's only 14 years old (only 3~4 years removed from the very league being discussed) may explain a lot regarding his position on this issue.

If you believe that he is 14 years old.

[mac195]

If the cancer kid was so weak that he could have severely injured himself why is he even playing in the PONY League? The parents can't have it both ways. They want their son to be treat normal but also be be treated "special" when it counts. Tha'ts hyocrisy! Also if baseball is supposed to be fun and not about winning then why is there a championship game? Does this league keep stadings and stats? Isn't that against the spirit of "fun"? People are so PC that they don't understand that kids love to compete. I know I did at that age. I wanted to win ever game and crush my opponent everytime. I wanted to take the pitcher deep every time. I played baseball because it was fun and I wanted to win. One year I played on a Little League team that went 2-21-1. Do you think that was much "fun" for our team? :o

Agreed. Winning is fun. As long as they aren't abusing kids, all coaches should play to win all the time. It's essential to the integrity of sport.

[mac195]

The line "I'd have done the same thing. It's just good baseball strategy" is very telling.

Does anyone else find it wrong that when we're talking about 9 and 10 year olds, that "baseball strategy" comes into play at all?

If you're a coach of little kids, and you're playing to win, you should go buy a copy of MLB 2006 for Playstation, and leave little kids alone. It's not about you and your manager fantasy, it's about the kids having fun.

Ugh...disgusts me.

Nine and 10 year olds like to win as much as anyone. I find your attitude far more disturbing than that of the coach in question.

[DownUnderDodger]

When it comes to kids, though, far too many adults want them to grow and develop the way they wished they had. Believe you me that is a recipe for disaster, as several others here have alluded to as well.
Oh how true - I have coached football teams in the past and there were a couple of "never was" parents who were hell bent on their sons being what they themselves could never be. Nothing worse than an overbearing, demanding parent on the sideline - often in the coaches face and always putting undue pressure on the kid.

[Richmond Hill Phoenix]

I just happened upon this thread right now. I heard about this on the radio, and discussed it with some friends at a ball practice. We all thought it was ridiculous. I haven't read the thread at all, and I'm sure that someone has already said these very points, but here are my thoughts:

I think that it is wrong to be so serious about baseball at such a young, however there are serious, competitive leagues for this age group, so I guess that it's gonna happen. I think that overall, intentional walks at this age are dumb. My baseball coach said it how I felt. By walking the big kid, he took away a chance for greatness. In addition to the batter losing his chance to be a hero, the pitcher so did the pitcher. He could have been a hero and struck out the best batter on the team to win the championship, but the coach made him walk him.

At this age, it is my belief that coaches should let the kids play. But many people do not agree, and this is why there are competitive leagues for toddlers.

One final thing I would like to say is this. Personally, I would have let the pitcher face the batter. But if I were a coach who wanted to win, but also wanted to be moral about it, I might have walked both guys (I heard this idea on the radio). The best hitter and the worst hitter. Then, you are going against a weaker hitter, but you won't cause such a big fuss because he's not a former cancer patient.

[mac195]

But if I were a coach who wanted to win, but also wanted to be moral about it, I might have walked both guys
I'm not sure how that is the morally superior course of action. Presumably the kid with cancer also wants to hit the ball. Otherwise why would he be in the lineup?

[Richmond Hill Phoenix]

I should have picked a better word than Moral. How about "coach who wanted to win, but also wanted to avoid being thought badly of (and avoid all this negative attention that he is getting right now) by intentionally walking a good batter to face a child who previoulsy had cancer".

On the issue of the kids intentions in baseball, it sounds from the article, like he was just a kid who wanted to have fun. I'm not even sure what PONY ball is, but it doesn't sound like a competitive league. From the quotes and the general nature of the article, I'm sure that Romney (the boy who survived cancer) was just there to have fun.

[micsmith]

If Little League is all about having fun and who cares if yo uwin or lose, just go out and have fun, then who cares if you're a pitcher and you get a loss, or you're a reliever who gets a blown save, or you're a hitter who gets a strikeout.

It's all about having fun. At least that kid got an extra at-bat. So, his fun was extended for at least a little longer. Who cares what the score is, and who cares if he strikes out.

It's all about letting the kids have fun.

That coach should have said, "Who cares if you get walked or strike out? It's all about fun."

[BigPapi34]

My thought is "TO BE THE BEST, YOU HAVE TO BEAT THE BEST."

When I was playing LL around age 10-12, if the pitcher walked a batter then the hitters coach would have to go out to the mound and pitch to him, but was only allowed to throw 3 pitches, balls or strikes.

[sandlot]

This thread points up a basic contradiction that I've been grappling with for a long time: I love the game but often detest some of the behavior that surrounds it. LL games are frequently a public fairground for dysfunctional parenting, and I've just stopped attending them. I don't have kids, but I often wonder what I would do if I were a parent: Encourage my kids to play organized ball, or to find some other activity where they wouldn't have to put up with that kind of nonsense? It seems to me that some of the views expressed here are just not reconcilable. Just my two cents, but I figure that life is full of win-lose situations, but you only get one chance to be a child. Isn't that why it's so sad to see children dying young? Isn't that why a kid who's already facing the ultimate win-or-lose contest against death ought to get a chance, maybe his last and only chance, to face a pitcher and dream of a hit? Isn't that why it's terribly wrong to take that simple chance away from him -- to deny that moment of feeling normal?

It's a sad irony that the people most obsessed with winning are themselves the biggest losers.

[Padday]

Here's a question I would like to pose to all of you guys on here. What if the kid was not a cancer surivior recovering? What if he was just awful, would that change your opinion on this coach? Just a question.
It's a good point to make and if you think about it, most of sport is just the exploitation of weaknesses and failures. Pitchers will pitch in a way that they can sieze upon the weaknesses in batters and then when the pitcher doesn't throw the desired pitch the batter will then try to take advantage of that.
This is an example and it happens everywhere in sport. I think that it's the same story with the kid who is just awful, he's taken advantage of all the time and it's just part of the game. With the kid with cancer it's just so blatant, to be taken advantage of because of an uncontrollable disease, it just crosses the line between sporting and just plain mean.

[TonyK]

For a nice perspective on kids and adults here's SI's Verducci:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/tom_verducci/08/15/ripken.series/index.html

Thanks willie, I just read this. I couldn't agree more with his pre-game decision to relax with the other coaches and let the kids have a good time before the game started.

We tried to do this in Little League when I coached. We would let the pitcher and catcher leave to warmup even though we knew my son was probably throwing knuckle balls or another kid would be throwing curve balls. We let kids eat a snack if they hadn't eaten dinner before the game. The kids always behaved and acted responsibly. You could see the team bonding going on so I knew that would help us whenever we were in a jam. We somehow found a way to win games with a bunch of goofballs.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

If you believe that he is 14 years old.
Do you believe otherwise?

[wamby]

Do you believe otherwise?

Yes, I do.