sexson thread.

[diehardmariner]

sexson has brought his average up from what..like 219? to 250. i knew he would come around and he's going to get 30 jacks. very productive year from the big man

[candy curveball cummings]

sexson has brought his average up from what..like 219? to 250. i knew he would come around and he's going to get 30 jacks. very productive year from the big man

On May 31st his average was .205. Since then he's hit .277 with 22 Home Runs and 61 RBI. He's turned a disappointing season into a respectable one. Plus his clutch hitting is amazing. No team in baseball should be intentionally walking Raul Ibanez.

[Edgartohof]

Sexson's been on quite a tear this month, hitting:

.365/.456/.677/1.133 in the month of September, with 35 hits, 12 doubles (13 including tonight's game), 6 HR, 19 Runs, and 17 RBI.

So his once poor season that turned into a decent season, can now be upgraded to "pretty good". :D :clapping

[KCGHOST]

Sexson has had a pretty mediocre season for a guy that is drawing the kind of money he is. An .835 OPS for a 1B is not all that special.

[Edgartohof]

Well, since the amount of money he makes isn't really a factor in how good he plays, who cares. And yes, he is over paid, but that is not his fault. If the team is willing to fork over that kind of money, why shouldn't he take it? It was a stupid move on the teams part, not his. Would you be happier if he was paid less? Hey, maybe I would too, but that wouldn't make him play any different.

And I never said this season was special, it is just, "pretty good".

[SABR Matt]

No, Richie Sexson is *NOT* overpaid. I dare any of you people to find me a 35-45 HR a year hitter (and this is CONSISTENTLY their hitting range...EVERY full season in which they play) who makes less than 13 million a year. You won't find one unless that player comes with enormous risks (inconsistency, injury proneness, plays exceedingly poor defense or is a pure DH, is a PR nightmare, etc). Sexson is getting market value...I know everyone on the net thinks they're smarter tghan all the GMs and that if they could run the team, they'd always get all the bargains and never pay market price, but try actually doing the job and then get back to me. Richie Sexson is a bonafide slugging star making slugging star money and doing his job well.

[leecemark]

--I double dog dare you to find an arb eligible player who isn't overpaid:laugh . I suspect we did overpay for Sexson when we signed him. Not sure they was an enormous amount of competition for him coming off a season missed due to injury (he WAS a huge risk). He may also be overpaid by the ndo of his deal. We've pretty much gotten our money's worth out of him in the first two years though. I'd trade him in the right deal, but we sure shouldn't be looking to just dump his contract.

[candy curveball cummings]

No, Richie Sexson is *NOT* overpaid. I dare any of you people to find me a 35-45 HR a year hitter (and this is CONSISTENTLY their hitting range...EVERY full season in which they play) who makes less than 13 million a year. You won't find one unless that player comes with enormous risks (inconsistency, injury proneness, plays exceedingly poor defense or is a pure DH, is a PR nightmare, etc). Sexson is getting market value...I know everyone on the net thinks they're smarter tghan all the GMs and that if they could run the team, they'd always get all the bargains and never pay market price, but try actually doing the job and then get back to me. Richie Sexson is a bonafide slugging star making slugging star money and doing his job well.

Alfonso Soriano makes 10 million and David Ortiz makes 6.5.

[papa~smurf]

Too bad he has his best months AFTER we fell out of the race.

[Stumanji]

Alfonso Soriano makes 10 million and David Ortiz makes 6.5.

CURRENTLY.

Soriano, baseballs first 40-40-40 man (I hate stats like this) will certainly get more than 10 million a year now that he's a free agent.

Should Ortiz get a new contract right now, you can bet he's getting 12-18 milion for his stick.

But unlike Ortiz, with Sexson you're paying for his glove as well as his bat - and he's a pretty good 1B (near tops in Gold Glove consideration in my mind).

And, forget not, he can play OF as well (and even said that he'd move to the OF if the M's signed Delgado). Can't say that about Ortiz.

[Edgartohof]

And, forget not, he can play OF as well (and even said that he'd move to the OF if the M's signed Delgado). Can't say that about Ortiz.

Sexson in the OF? Are you crazy? Maybe he can do it, and I don't know anything, but it just doesn't seem like that good of an idea. It doesn't seem like he could cover the ground well enough. I wouldn't even want to see him out there for 1 or 2 games - that just seems like a disaster waiting to happen. He works out great at 1B - is a BIG target there, is good with the glove, and can reach a lot of bad throws that many others can't, just due to his size (6'8''), while staying on the bag. If we were to pick up Delgado, I would rather see one of the two (Sexson or Delgado) at DH (we need to shore up there soon - Brousard is NOT the answer - of course from my perspective, anyone who is not Edgar is not good enough there :D ).

[leecemark]

--The idea of Big Richie roaming the spacious OF at Safeco is pretty frightening to me too. If we had managed to sign Delgado and Sexson, DH/1B would have been the way to go. Delgado/Beltre would have been my prefered combo in that market though.

[SABR Matt]

Alfonso Soriano makes 10 million and David Ortiz makes 6.5.

Alfonso Soriano is at the end of a contract that he signed before he was a surefire 40 HR a year slugger (and BTW...he still isn't a surefire 40/Year slugger...he's just had a really good year after a couple of pretty mediocre ones)...and David Ortiz is also at the tail end of a contract he signed after his first good year...the Red Sox were very smart and locked him in before he hit the roof. I'm talking about the Mariners' situation in '05...they wanted to go out and add two big bats in free agency and they wanted them to be established. You can't sign an established slugging star for less than we signed Sexson. It can't be done in this market. You have to get a little lucky like the Red Sox did finding Ortiz or you have to take on high risk players like the As do every year in order to hit some bargains.

[SABR Matt]

Too bad he has his best months AFTER we fell out of the race.

You say this as though it has any meaning at all. It's not like Sexson hasn't come up with huge clutch hit after huge clutch hit as a Mariner. Come on now. He leads the team in 2 out RBI, leads the team in RISP production, leads the team with the bases loaded...homers almost every time they walk the man in front of him with the bases loaded...and you're intimating that he sucked while we were in the race and then started playing only when the pressure was off? Get freakin' real pal.

[candy curveball cummings]

Alfonso Soriano is at the end of a contract that he signed before he was a surefire 40 HR a year slugger (and BTW...he still isn't a surefire 40/Year slugger...he's just had a really good year after a couple of pretty mediocre ones)...and David Ortiz is also at the tail end of a contract he signed after his first good year...the Red Sox were very smart and locked him in before he hit the roof. I'm talking about the Mariners' situation in '05...they wanted to go out and add two big bats in free agency and they wanted them to be established. You can't sign an established slugging star for less than we signed Sexson. It can't be done in this market. You have to get a little lucky like the Red Sox did finding Ortiz or you have to take on high risk players like the As do every year in order to hit some bargains.

I know all about contracts ending in everything, but you dared me, had to find something :laugh. By the way, you said "find me a 35-45 Home Run guy". Soriano has bested 35 Home Runs 4 of the last 5 years and has an average over that 5 year period of 37.4. I think he qualifies. By the way, at the time Sexson was awarded his contract, he only had two such seasons.

[SABR Matt]

Yes...but they were consecutive and he was in his prime (minus the missed injury year for which the Ms assured themselves 95% there was no risk of recurrance by a massive physical).

You can always cases of teams that get lucky when they take a flyer or lock a guy down early and he hits it big etc...the Ms paid A-Rod 4 million dollars in 2000 to put up an MVP caliber season, for example.

That doesn't mean it is bad to pay market price for players...you can't always get the awesome bargain.

[candy curveball cummings]

Yes...but they were consecutive and he was in his prime.

Uh, no they weren't consecutive. In 2001 he had 45, in 2002 he had 29, and in 2003 he had 45.

He wasn't truly productive until he went to Milwaukee. He was a good player with the Indians, but his highest single-season OPS+ in Cleveland was 112. He wasn't a monster hitter, simply a good one.

He went to Milwaukee and had 3 great years. He went to Arizona and was injured. Then the Mariners gave him a huge contract. Is it the worst contract out there? No, not even close. He doesn't even have the worst contract on the team. But he wasn't deserving of that deal. Soriano was given a deal after he had two great years. He wasn't unproven. His 2002 and 2003 seasons were great and he was the premier second basemen in the league those years (sorry Bret).

By the way, Stumanji mentioned defense. I didn't realize defense from a first baseman was worth THAT much money. Why didn't Olerud get the big paycheck then?

[papa~smurf]

You say this as though it has any meaning at all. It's not like Sexson hasn't come up with huge clutch hit after huge clutch hit as a Mariner. Come on now. He leads the team in 2 out RBI, leads the team in RISP production, leads the team with the bases loaded...homers almost every time they walk the man in front of him with the bases loaded...and you're intimating that he sucked while we were in the race and then started playing only when the pressure was off? Get freakin' real pal.

All I ment was he has a slow start. We could have used that offense in May and June, instead of August and September.

[SABR Matt]

My mistake re: the 40 HR seasons being consecutive...I thought they were '02 and '03...

And he wasn't a "great hitter" in Cleveland because he was never given a chance in Cleveland. He went to Milwaukee, they slapped him on the back and said "go get 'em Richie!" and he smoked the NL.

And he smoked the AL as soon as he got back here. And he'll continue to smoke the AL...and I maintain the belief that his contract is market value, which IMHO is a GOOD thing, not a bad one.

[Stumanji]

--The idea of Big Richie roaming the spacious OF at Safeco is pretty frightening to me too.

Sexson has 109 career outfielding games, with a fielding percentage of 1.000. He played 58 games in Left Field for the Cleveland Indians in 2000.

I'm not saying I'd prefer him to play outfield - I'm just saying he can.

[SABR Matt]

F% does not make for a good analysis tool here...Richie Sexson can play the outfield in the same way that Edgar Martinez could have played the outfield. He can stand out there, catch fly balls that come to him without making mistakes and not hurt himself doing it. He can't snag gappers any more than Edgar could have.

[Stumanji]

My point wasn't that he was some outstanding, gold glover out there. Just that he can play OF. He's not a liability (like Carl Everett) out there - he'll catch what he gets to.

[Edgartohof]

My point wasn't that he was some outstanding, gold glover out there. Just that he can play OF. He's not a liability (like Carl Everett) out there - he'll catch what he gets to.

Ummmm... I'd still call him a liability. He isn't the fastest guy out there, and in Safecoe, he'll need to cover a bit of ground, and I don't want to see him splaying himself across the field in a superman move - all just to miss the ball anyways. He played 48 and 58 games respectively in 1999 and 2000. He was 24 and 25 those seasons - he's turning 32 next season - age is a factor, expecially considering that he hasn't played in the OF for 6 years now. And I might add that he played those games in LF, which is not quite RF, and definitely not CF - heck if he had been decent, he'd have been in RF at least. They only put him out there because they needed someone - if he was good, he also would have stayed. He is at 1B because that's where he belongs.

Richie is 6'8'' - a great big target at 1B, who has good hands, and can reach many bad balls, just due to his size, all while staying on the bag - you throw it high, he has a good shot at it. But if you make him run for it, like he'd have to do in the OF, he's not as well suited for it. Even when he's going full tilt, he's not that fast. And he certainly doesn't have great acceleration, which he would also need. Sure he can get the balls that are right at him, but anyone can - it's the other 95% of the time that I care about. Him playing out there increases his chances of injury 10 fold, and I wouldn't want to risk losing his bat.

And there is no need to put him in the OF anyways. If we were to pick up another 1Bman, we would probably just have them rotate between 1B/DH - see, no need for him in the OF. If we need an outfielder, we need to then go find a natural outfielder.

[Stumanji]

And there is no need to put him in the OF anyways. If we were to pick up another 1Bman, we would probably just have them rotate between 1B/DH - see, no need for him in the OF. If we need an outfielder, we need to then go find a natural outfielder.

All well and good...

But I never said he should play the outfield. I said he can play the outfield.

The entire Sexson-in-the-Outfield thing started when his salary was compared to David Ortiz, who is only paid for his bat - Sexson plays great defense at 1B and, in a pinch, he can play a little outfield.

I was simply justifying his value compared to DH-only Ortiz.

[candy curveball cummings]

All well and good...

But I never said he should play the outfield. I said he can play the outfield.

The entire Sexson-in-the-Outfield thing started when his salary was compared to David Ortiz, who is only paid for his bat - Sexson plays great defense at 1B and, in a pinch, he can play a little outfield.

I was simply justifying his value compared to DH-only Ortiz.

But defense at first base isn't enough to justify that kind of money. David Ortiz's bat more than makes up for his lack of defense. As a hitter, Ortiz is head-and-shoulders above Richie. Richie's Defense at FIRST BASE doesn't make up for that.

But the point is moot, as I admit Ortiz will be getting much more money, and probably more than Richie.