Polo Grounds [IV] / Brush Stadium (1911-1963) [Archive] - Page 10

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Perseus71

11-26-2010, 01:01 PM

See post 2,294 above.

I don't see anything on a news story, just the slide auction?

Petemc1969

11-26-2010, 03:02 PM

I don't see anything on a news story, just the slide auction?

Sorry...you had asked where the letters were from. As depicted in those old Polo Grounds photos, those letters were once hung along the side of the structure.

epaddon

11-26-2010, 07:01 PM

Perseus71

11-27-2010, 02:58 AM

oops - slow server right now.

Perseus71

11-27-2010, 03:00 AM

I wish I could see the article explaining where that came from too, because I can remember reading in a book that during the search for the Eddie Grant monument plaque, they found in a storage room at Candlestick other plaques and "the letters from the Polo Grounds" that I guess had to be something other than this.

Thanks to both of you for the response. I love hearing these stories, especially about stadium artifacts. I had read about the letters still being in a Candlestick Park storage area, but, seeing this guy with what clearly looks like the authentic sign, it seems there may have been 3-4 sets of these signs around the stadium. Can anybody confirm that? Also, this picture makes me wonder what happened to the N.Y. letters? And speaking of Eddie Grant memorial, does anyone have a picture of the new one at AT&T PARK?

Jays_Fan

11-27-2010, 09:04 AM

Thanks to both of you for the response. I love hearing these stories, especially about stadium artifacts. I had read about the letters still being in a Candlestick Park storage area, but, seeing this guy with what clearly looks like the authentic sign, it seems there may have been 3-4 sets of these signs around the stadium. Can anybody confirm that? Also, this picture makes me wonder what happened to the N.Y. letters? And speaking of Eddie Grant memorial, does anyone have a picture of the new one at AT&T PARK?

Yes, there was at least one more sign on the home-plate end of the stadium that faced the bluff.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c199/jordomac24/polocolor.jpg

JOVE23

11-27-2010, 11:25 AM

Yes, there was at least one more sign on the home-plate end of the stadium that faced the bluff.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c199/jordomac24/polocolor.jpg

There was also a sign on the clubhouse facing the Harlem River:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/144/341462116_9f51679f07_b.jpg

It reads "Titans" in this picture but it read "Giants" during their tenure.

SultanOfWhat

11-27-2010, 04:21 PM

Baseball artist Graig Kreindler comparisons:

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o164/emstc/Kreindler1.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o164/emstc/Kreindler8.jpg

Chef Bill

11-27-2010, 08:13 PM

There was also a sign on the clubhouse facing the Harlem River:

It reads "Titans" in this picture but it read "Giants" during their tenure.

They only had to change one letter!

mandrake

11-28-2010, 02:53 AM

There was also a sign on the clubhouse facing the Harlem River:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/144/341462116_9f51679f07_b.jpg

It reads "Titans" in this picture but it read "Giants" during their tenure.

I would take a guess that this picture was taken in 1960 or so. The Titans were named that in 1960-1962 at the Polo Grounds (Jets in '63). I believe someone posted a picture of the " NY Mets" sign on the Polo Grounds dated 1962. Also the last remnant of the 9th Ave El, the spur to Yankee Stadium, is still in the photo and that stopped running in August 1958 and they probably did not tear it down by 1960.

Perseus71

11-28-2010, 05:07 AM

I'm guessing, but it looks like the GIANTS may have left the NY and just brought the GIANTS letters with them to the Bay Area.

JDCTexas

11-28-2010, 07:13 AM

StadiumPage

11-28-2010, 07:39 AM

Quick question and I'm sorry if this has been asked before and answered, but I couldn't find it in the thread. Who owned the Polo Grounds before it was demoed? Was it the City, a private owner or one of the teams that played there?

Thanks in advance!

The Giants owned the stadium, but the land was owned privately. (Coogan estate I think). NYC took the land (and I assume the stadium) by eminent domain to build the apartments in the 60's.

JDCTexas

11-28-2010, 08:59 AM

The Giants owned the stadium, but the land was owned privately. (Coogan estate I think). NYC took the land (and I assume the stadium) by eminent domain to build the apartments in the 60's.

I had always wondered about that. I wish there was a way the old place could have been saved...it would have been neat to see a game there (baseball or football). Thanks.

Paul W

11-28-2010, 01:28 PM

I wish there was a way the old place could have been saved...

not with moses involved, he had to keep pushing - new, new, new- to keep getting federal $$$'s for his financial friends and power for himself...

Gary Dunaier

11-28-2010, 07:29 PM

1958 From eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/Orig-Slide-NYC-Polo-Grounds-Stadium-New-York-Giants-/400174536606?pt=Art_Photo_Images&hash=item5d2c42d79e#ht_1063wt_1102

The auction ended a couple of hours ago. The image - described as an "Original 35mm film slide" - went for an eye-popping (to me, anyway) $71.56.

It's a nice image - the kind of view I like to take, with some of the ballpark and some of the neighboring buildings. From this angle the place doesn't even look like a ballpark.

The image also preserves a but of NYC history - the old type of NYC parkway signage, rectangular with all-caps black-on-white lettering, suspended from an extended "arm."

Unfortunately, the seller notes: "Please note: Unless you are the winning bidder, I will not provide scans of the slides and negatives I sell. Also, I will not give out another member's contact information or contact another member on your behalf." So let's hope the successful high bidder is a BBF person who's willing to be generous with his or her new prize.

chinese home run

11-29-2010, 05:14 PM

I'm guessing, but it looks like the GIANTS may have left the NY and just brought the GIANTS letters with them to the Bay Area.

The "NY" letters were along with the "GIANTS" letters when the Giants had their 50th anniversary reunion of the 1954 World Championship team in 2004. Looks like the ones that were on top of the clubhouse, but I'm not sure.

I do have a picture of the letters that is in my copy of "Giants Forever" from 2004- they were right by the players who returned that day- but darned if I can remember where I have it.

Lpeters199

11-29-2010, 06:03 PM

Willie Mays:

gtru1981

11-29-2010, 09:54 PM

Here is the website where i got the pic. I just typed in Google "polo ground sign" and its just a sentence about how he traded it back to the Giants back in 2004

http://sfbatrack.com/mike_doyles_giants_items

Perseus71

11-30-2010, 12:26 PM

Thanks. Very interesting. I wonder how he got that.

Lpeters199

11-30-2010, 01:54 PM

We need a volunteer to e-mail him and find out.

gtru1981

11-30-2010, 04:06 PM

We need a volunteer to e-mail him and find out.

I hope someone does email him becaus who knows what else he may have

Lpeters199

11-30-2010, 05:30 PM

1936--No Batter's Eye:

Lpeters199

12-02-2010, 07:26 AM

http://cgi.ebay.com/1954-NY-Giants-Jim-Rhodes-Orig-Press-Photo-/290505572475?pt=Vintage_Sports_Memorabilia&hash=item43a37b407b#ht_5567wt_702

Paul W

12-02-2010, 09:22 PM

1936--No Batter's Eye:

the clubhouse/offices building was the batter's backdrop, no need to cover revenue generating seats during the depression.

StanTheMan

12-03-2010, 06:14 AM

the clubhouse/offices building was the batter's backdrop, no need to cover revenue generating seats during the depression.

I think he means the two screens that were immediately to the left and right of the "notch" in center. They blocked a few rows of bleacher seats closest to CF on either side of the notch.... not anything to do with the clubhouse itself. At least that is how I interpret the photo.

Gary Dunaier

12-03-2010, 06:43 AM

JohnCropp

12-03-2010, 06:51 AM

Pretty sure that those screens were, indeed, what was being referred to. Those screens can be seen in the photos of Mays' catch...

http://www.thecitrusreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/willie-mays-catch-24.jpg

...and as StanTheMan points out, they did indeed block the views of some of the rows of seating. You can "infer" this by noting that the fans in the first row of seats "above" the screen have their feet on the bleacher row in front of them. (Those fans probably could not actually see Mays' catch because of the batters' eye.)

Until now, I had always thought that those people were sitting above a wall and had the best view of the catch!

Oh, the horror of being at the game, being in your seat, and missing the most famous catch in baseball history as it happens (physically) right in front of you!

StanTheMan

12-03-2010, 11:00 AM

"Did he catch it?"
"I don't know... where is he?"
"There goes the ball back to the infield"
"Holy sh1t! People are screaming their heads off adn pointing at US!!!!!"
"Look at the runners scrambling back!!!"

"He CAUGHT it!!!!!!"
"The fans are NOT pointing at us."

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y244/elephunkadelic/indians/WillyMayscatch.jpg

jints15

12-03-2010, 02:23 PM

My Dad was at that game and he sat about 15 rows on the aisle and he always told me that he never saw the catch as the batting eye blocked out Mays

Paul W

12-04-2010, 12:25 AM

I think he means the two screens that were immediately to the left and right of the "notch" in center. They blocked a few rows of bleacher seats closest to CF on either side of the notch.... not anything to do with the clubhouse itself. At least that is how I interpret the photo.

pix used from 1936 during the depression. the walls erected in front of seating appeared in 50's.

Perseus71

12-04-2010, 03:09 PM

Let us know if you find it? Are there any other Polo Grounds items on display at AT&T park?

The "NY" letters were along with the "GIANTS" letters when the Giants had their 50th anniversary reunion of the 1954 World Championship team in 2004. Looks like the ones that were on top of the clubhouse, but I'm not sure.

I do have a picture of the letters that is in my copy of "Giants Forever" from 2004- they were right by the players who returned that day- but darned if I can remember where I have it.

Lpeters199

12-05-2010, 04:50 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com/1960-Franco-Sattolo-Soccer-Player-Orig-Press-Photo-/280580777106?pt=Art_Photo_Images&hash=item4153eae492#ht_3880wt_870

Lpeters199

12-06-2010, 01:47 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com/SANDY-KOUFAX-Dodger-Ace-PHOTO-/120645991706?pt=Art_Photo_Images&hash=item1c170fbd1a#ht_2357wt_742

Perseus71

12-07-2010, 03:32 AM

I tried emailing that guy about the original NY GIANTS Polo Grounds sign and I got a bounce back from the email listed on the site. Anyone have any other ideas? I don't really want to call the phone number on there, as it may be a little intrusive.

StanTheMan

12-07-2010, 07:34 AM

Back to the batter eye topic... Look at the last photo of Koufax, the release of what looks like a regular fastball. BEHIND the batters eye screen sits a fan. A fan who could only see half the field at best!

Lpeters199

12-07-2010, 05:19 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com/1923-Apr-26-photo-New-York-and-Boston-players-Polo-/260621662917?pt=Art_Photo_Images&hash=item3cae42fac5#ht_2149wt_1045

Lpeters199

12-08-2010, 11:09 AM

http://cgi.ebay.com/1952-NFL-New-York-Giants-Team-Photo-Auto-40-Sig-PSA-LOA-/300501083728?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45f742a650#ht_500wt_951

theimposter1979

12-08-2010, 12:45 PM

Great pic of Dodgers- Mets at the Polo Grounds! Love it!

Lpeters199

12-09-2010, 05:58 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com/SUPERB-1937-Original-Photo-POLO-GROUNDS-World-Series-/260704581402?pt=Vintage_Sports_Memorabilia&hash=item3cb334371a#ht_3723wt_966

Lpeters199

12-10-2010, 04:50 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com/1923-Photo-CASEY-STENGEL-Judge-Landis-JOHN-McGRAW-/150510477952?pt=Vintage_Sports_Memorabilia&hash=item230b1fa280#ht_2126wt_886

gtru1981

12-10-2010, 07:25 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com/SUPERB-1937-Original-Photo-POLO-GROUNDS-World-Series-/260704581402?pt=Vintage_Sports_Memorabilia&hash=item3cb334371a#ht_3723wt_966

So either i was blind, but their was a train yard next to the Polo Grounds? These must be way older pictures because the pictures of the 50's and 60's i see more apartment buildings

Gary Dunaier

12-10-2010, 08:23 PM

The housing project on the left field side of the Polo Grounds - the Rangel Houses, originally known as the Colonial Park Houses - was completed in 1951.

Lpeters199

12-11-2010, 01:31 AM

The housing project on the left field side of the Polo Grounds - the Rangel Houses, originally known as the Colonial Park Houses - was completed in 1951.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/28516908@N08/3265386204/in/faves-79652729@N00/

Melottfan

12-11-2010, 07:09 AM

#2339 Leo Durocher talking to a ladies group. To Durocher's right, is Eleanor Gehrig, wife of Lou Gehrig.

Lpeters199

12-12-2010, 03:03 PM

1924 World Series. The batter's eye has been rolled up.

Lpeters199

12-12-2010, 08:40 PM

http://www.mearsonlineauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=20472&searchby=0&searchvalue=None&page=2&sortby=0&displayby=2&lotsperpage=100&category=2&seo=1924-Rabbit-Maranville-Wilbur-Cooper-Pittsburgh-Pirates-%22The-Sporting-News-Collection-Archives%22-Orig

Lpeters199

12-13-2010, 02:17 AM

http://www.mearsonlineauctions.com/default.aspx

Gary Dunaier

12-13-2010, 06:36 PM

http://www.mearsonlineauctions.com/default.aspx

Looks like the photo was taken 9/23/62, the final home game of the season, and at the time it was believed to be the final game ever at the Polo Grounds.

Incidentally, the radio broadcast from this game is available as part of the Miley Collection.

(A more direct link to the photo, with the auction house's description, can be found here (http://www.mearsonlineauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=20138&searchby=3&searchvalue=polo grounds photo&page=0&sortby=0&displayby=2&lotsperpage=100&category=1&seo=1962-Polo-Grounds-%22The-Sporting-News-Collection-Archives%22-Original-Type-1-14%22-x-10-1%2f2%22-Choice-Jumbo) - the link Lpeters199 provided just takes you to the auction house's homepage. The auction ended 11/28/10, and the photo sold for $174.80 including buyer's premium.)

Lpeters199

12-14-2010, 04:06 PM

From eBay:

Paul W

12-14-2010, 05:40 PM

the mears pix mentioned above.
mets win game in bottom of 9th for roger craig.
the white sign on the facing of the upper deck is an ad for the 9/30 titans vs. denver afl game

tugger

12-15-2010, 11:26 PM

RIP Rapid Robert.

mandrake

12-16-2010, 04:17 AM

RIP Rapid Robert.

I wonder what year that picture was from? At first glance, I would have said '54 WS, but the projects are not in the picture. An all star game?

Too young for '34.....I think '42 had an all star game at the Polo Grounds.

davewashere

12-16-2010, 07:08 AM

I wonder what year that picture was from? At first glance, I would have said '54 WS, but the projects are not in the picture. An all star game?

Too young for '34.....I think '42 had an all star game at the Polo Grounds.

Wouldn't Feller have been in the service in '42?

Edit #1: The uniform appears to be 1936.

Edit #2: "On June 15, 1942, Feller participated in a five-inning baseball game at the Polo Grounds, New York, as part of an all-sports carnival to raise funds for Army-Navy Relief. Feller pitched the Navy team to victory against the Army’s Hugh Mulcahy - allowing three hits and striking out five." Source: http://www.baseballinwartime.com/player_biographies/feller_bob.htm

Mario Mendoza...HOF Lock

12-16-2010, 09:34 PM

Some photos from some old auctions and otherwise

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5045/5264991383_20c6797dfb_o.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5283/5264990395_4820e9aefa_o.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5041/5265597248_e9f4a84fec_o.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5205/5265591354_843c9e3dbf_o.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5163/5265597598_e781436df7_o.jpg

lollar

12-16-2010, 10:12 PM

Wouldn't Feller have been in the service in '42?

Edit #1: The uniform appears to be 1936.

Edit #2: "On June 15, 1942, Feller participated in a five-inning baseball game at the Polo Grounds, New York, as part of an all-sports carnival to raise funds for Army-Navy Relief. Feller pitched the Navy team to victory against the Army’s Hugh Mulcahy - allowing three hits and striking out five." Source: http://www.baseballinwartime.com/player_biographies/feller_bob.htm

It was 1937 or 1938...the only years Cleveland had that style uniform with the pinstripes. During those years the Indians frequently barnstormed north with the New York Giants in early April, and usually concluded their exhibitions with a weekend series at the Polo Grounds before they opened the season the following Tuesday. So this would be an end of spring training game at the Polo Grounds in '37 or '38.

Mario Mendoza...HOF Lock

12-17-2010, 07:19 AM

It was 1937 or 1938...the only years Cleveland had that style uniform with the pinstripes. During those years the Indians frequently barnstormed north with the New York Giants in early April, and usually concluded their exhibitions with a weekend series at the Polo Grounds before they opened the season the following Tuesday. So this would be an end of spring training game at the Polo Grounds in '37 or '38.

Looks like a pretty good crowd for a spring training game. I'd pay to see Feller throw even if he was only knocking over milk bottles at the carnival.

lollar

12-17-2010, 08:22 AM

Looks like a pretty good crowd for a spring training game. I'd pay to see Feller throw even if he was only knocking over milk bottles at the carnival.

According to the April 19, 1937 edition of The New York Times, Feller pitched the final exhibition game of the exhibition season against the Giants at the Polo Grounds the day before. The attendance was 31,486, primarily to see the 18 year old pitch. In 8 innings he allowed 2 runs on 5 hits with 9 strikeouts and 6 walks. I'd link the NYTimes page but don't know how to do it.

chip

12-17-2010, 09:46 AM

Mygirljess

12-17-2010, 11:13 AM

According to the April 19, 1937 edition of The New York Times, Feller pitched the final exhibition game of the exhibition season against the Giants at the Polo Grounds the day before. The attendance was 31,486, primarily to see the 18 year old pitch. In 8 innings he allowed 2 runs on 5 hits with 9 strikeouts and 6 walks. I'd link the NYTimes page but don't know how to do it.

This is why I love baseball-fever.com!

Lpeters199

12-17-2010, 02:16 PM

I have a question about the screens used for the batters eye.

Why in the world did they use screens at the Polo Grounds or the curtain
at Yankee Stadium?

Why not just leave the sections in the line of vision void of fans and paint the seats a darker color?
Cleveland Municipal Stadium did this and eventually the renovated Yankee Stadium.

Why would you block the view for the fans?
It makes no sense to me.

I think it was all about money. Most of the pictures posted here that were taken during World Series games had the screen rolled down, at least at Yankee Stadium. So batters had to look into a sea of white shirts against the likes of Sandy Koufax. Player safety be damned for a few hundred extra admissions. By not blocking this area off, it was always available to use for sellout crowds. That's my theory, but maybe you'll hear some other ones.

lollar

12-17-2010, 05:18 PM

I think it was all about money. Most of the pictures posted here that were taken during World Series games had the screen rolled down, at least at Yankee Stadium. So batters had to look into a sea of white shirts against the likes of Sandy Koufax. Player safety be damned for a few hundred extra admissions. By not blocking this area off, it was always available to use for sellout crowds. That's my theory, but maybe you'll hear some other ones.

Player safety be damned indeed. Another reason players don't care for owners. It starts in the minor leagues with the way many GM's treat the players and goes all the way to the top. Players and owners go back over one hundred years in labor disputes.

Paul W

12-17-2010, 05:24 PM

must have been quite a struggle seeing a koufax fastball out of that background.
it looks like the polo grounds backdrop was originally a cloth screen hung over a metal frame and later (late 40's or early 50's) replaced by a solid metal or wood painted planking.
on the 6th row, there's 2 pix - one from the '24 series that shows the rolled-up screen but the pix to the right ('23) doesn't show the frame but the pix above this is also from '23 and there's a cloth screen that was wider than the solid one that was erected later.
for football and other events the screen was removed, although the right pix in the 4th row is from baseball and the screen is removed.
what's interesting about this is that looking at the 2nd row color pix is that the batter's view of the pitcher is framed by the cf building and it seems like the additional screen is superfluous unless the peripheral vision of the hitters was effected, the pg's bleachers outfield wall was much lower that most in that era.
seems like an extraordinary concession by the gi-ants owners in that time.
never seen pix that shows any lights on in the clubhouse windows that would appear directly behind the pitcher which would seem to be more of a distraction.

vertical screens reflected less light than painted concrete floors and benches. rys backdrop was concrete flooring only.

players then accepted the risk of losing the ball in shirt sleeve bleacher crowds then, it was a part of the game.
the modern player doesn't know anything about this and their animosity for owners has more to do with $$$'s and agents.
i've wondered how the greats from the 20' and 30's would fare with the optimum conditions that exist today (night games not withstanding).

Lpeters199

12-18-2010, 02:38 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbltQjJk0Bo

1:38 into this video clip shows a nice Roberto Clemente throw at the Polo Grounds.

Why was the 483 to center changed to 475 for the Mets' seasons? Some people say that home plate was moved out eight feet toward centerfield, but that would require moving the entire infield, the mound, and both foul poles out also. There must be a better reason. Was the distance found to be wrong after all those years? A little help, please.

Lpeters199

12-20-2010, 09:55 PM

11:15 of this clip shows a unique view of Yankee Stadium from inside the Polo Grounds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RB89ZvW19w&feature=related

Lpeters199

12-23-2010, 11:21 PM

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=24918

SultanOfWhat

12-24-2010, 07:59 AM

New York Giants parading parading prior to the World Series game Oct 11, 1917. Manager John McGraw is leading with Jim Thorpe, and George "Highpockets" Kelly in the line; this was Thorpe's only World Series.

http://i780.photobucket.com/albums/yy90/Bucket2NYY/1917Oct11.jpg

Bazookadale

12-24-2010, 09:48 AM

[

Why was the 483 to center changed to 475 for the Mets' seasons? Some people say that home plate was moved out eight feet toward centerfield, but that would require moving the entire infield, the mound, and both foul poles out also. There must be a better reason. Was the distance found to be wrong after all those years? A little help, please.

They did indeed move the diamond and the poles out 8 ft - this is not unheard of and has been done at a number of ballparks over the years

BSmile

12-24-2010, 10:45 AM

The Last Game - Polo Grounds - September 29, 1957
A dismal end to a dismal season. But hey...it's souvenir time!
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/NY1/NY1195709290.shtml (http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/NY1/NY1195709290.shtml)

Paul W

12-24-2010, 11:43 AM

HEAD FOR THE STAIRS!!!!
where's the umps going?

Lpeters199

12-25-2010, 01:07 PM

Sports Illustrated's report on the final game starts on page 62 of this issue.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/edb/reader.html?magID=SI&issueDate=19571007&mode=reader_vault

410 FT

12-25-2010, 10:59 PM

Took a visit to the staircase that has been promised to be fixed. Nothing's been done.
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l11/redmills/Mobile%20Uploads/downsized951028001117-1.jpg

Gary Dunaier

12-26-2010, 12:24 AM

Took a visit to the staircase that has been promised to be fixed. Nothing's been done.

Fake John T. Brush Stairway promises fail!

Lpeters199

12-26-2010, 12:29 AM

http://warofyesterday.blogspot.com/2010/12/riding-el-5-155th-st.html

http://warofyesterday.blogspot.com/2010/12/riding-el-4-155th-st.html

Lpeters199

12-26-2010, 12:37 AM

http://warofyesterday.blogspot.com/2010/12/riding-el-5-155th-st.html

http://warofyesterday.blogspot.com/2010/12/riding-el-4-155th-st.html

Lpeters199

12-26-2010, 12:42 AM

http://warofyesterday.blogspot.com/2010/12/riding-el-5-155th-st.html

http://warofyesterday.blogspot.com/2010/12/riding-el-4-155th-st.html

Lpeters199

12-26-2010, 12:47 AM

http://warofyesterday.blogspot.com/2010/12/riding-el-5-155th-st.html .

http://warofyesterday.blogspot.com/2010/12/riding-el-4-155th-st.html

Paul W

12-26-2010, 06:01 AM

gee, i guess the pg's neighborhood didn't ruin the "experience" for gi-ants fans then.

Lpeters199

12-26-2010, 08:21 PM

http://books.google.com/books?id=QBV6Wb29yBEC&printsec=frontcover&dq=inauthor:%22Dan+Fost%22&source=bl&ots=NQA7bfBVxx&sig=i675e7vtxEmRBu_vep57PprSEFY&hl=en&ei=NRMYTartGpDXnAeEv-X4DQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

Lpeters199

12-27-2010, 12:40 AM

http://www.pinstripedbible.com/2010/11/30/gil-mcdougald-unsung-yankees-great/

Jays_Fan

12-27-2010, 01:38 PM

I like the warning sign on the dugout wall.

Bazookadale

12-27-2010, 01:45 PM

I like the warning sign on the dugout wall.

They let the fans on the field after the game in those days - I guess some thought the bats were fare game

Lpeters199

12-27-2010, 07:14 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com/JULIAN-JAVIER-ST-LOUIS-CARDINALS-SIGNED-8X10-PHOTO-COA-/230565307279?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35aec3638f#ht_743wt_754

gtru1981

12-27-2010, 07:34 PM

jnakamura

12-27-2010, 08:50 PM

--------------------------------------

Lpeters199

12-28-2010, 05:08 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com/Photo-Crowd-Durham-Athletic-Park-/130468165999?pt=Art_Photo_Images&hash=item1e6082396f#ht_2146wt_1026

Lpeters199

12-28-2010, 07:57 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com/1951-George-Stirnweiss-Cleveland-Indians-Original-Photo-/250746646701?pt=Art_Photo_Images&hash=item3a61aa30ad#ht_2430wt_809

http://cgi.ebay.com/1951-Gil-Hodges-Dodgers-Tagged-Out-Photo-/290510230549?pt=Art_Photo_Images&hash=item43a3c25415#ht_3393wt_1073

http://cgi.ebay.com/NY-GIANTS-POLO-GROUNDS-OPENING-DAY-1937-LEGEND-PHOTO-/290516115372?pt=Art_Prints&hash=item43a41c1fac

Lpeters199

12-28-2010, 11:23 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com/MAURY-WILLS-SIGNED-DODGERS-8X10-PHOTO-STEINER-COA-/370463075955?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item564151ee73#ht_1675wt_702

Paul W

12-29-2010, 11:07 AM

looks like an advertising banner hanging off the rf roof in the previously posted pix.
the ebay title just just a bit off....

jnakamura

12-29-2010, 05:33 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2zccYzynJc&feature=related

trepye

12-29-2010, 09:16 PM

As a baseball stadium fanatic and old stadium buff that footage makes me salivate. That game is so COOL!! Gotta get me a copy.

Mario Mendoza...HOF Lock

12-29-2010, 09:47 PM

As a baseball stadium fanatic and old stadium buff that footage makes me salivate. That game is so COOL!! Gotta get me a copy.

The detail of the PG is impressive. My recall of how these games looked only 10 years ago is quickly overtaken by the wonderment of what they are going to look like 10 years in the future. By then, this may look primitive.

It does make me believe that baseball could return to northern Manhattan again, despite the income demographics (http://projects.nytimes.com/census/2010/explorer?ref=nyregion). I'm a dreamer.

Lpeters199

12-29-2010, 10:19 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com/5-NY-Giants-Baseball-Polo-Grounds-Stadium-Old-Photos-/130469042831?pt=Art_Photo_Images&hash=item1e608f9a8f#ht_500wt_717

tdinan

12-30-2010, 06:43 AM

Their are so many pictures of the Polo Grounds! To me, i think the Polo Grounds is the second best stadium ever built in NYC, first being the original Yankee Stadium. So much rich history and it is sad that the city doesnt honor the area and seems to forget that baseball/football was played in that area!

While I can't argue about the history of the place, many people who actually attended a game at Polo Grounds would disagree with you. Almost every single person I have spoken with who went there felt it was a dreadful place to watch a baseball game. My dad went there several times, and he always maintained it was much better suited for soccer and football. And even though he was a Bronx native and a huge Yankee fan, he thought Ebbets Field had a much more lively environment and was more conducive to enjoying a ballgame than either the PG or even OYS.

mandrake

12-30-2010, 06:57 AM

While I can't argue about the history of the place, many people who actually attended a game at Polo Grounds would disagree with you. Almost every single person I have spoken with who went there felt it was a dreadful place to watch a baseball game. My dad went there several times, and he always maintained it was much better suited for soccer and football. And even though he was a Bronx native and a huge Yankee fan, he thought Ebbets Field had a much more lively environment and was more conducive to enjoying a ballgame than either the PG or even OYS.

My parents agree with you. While they were die hard Brooklyn fans (going back to the days when there was also Dodger football and Yankees football) they loved Ebbets for baseball; they did not like the Polo grounds at all for baseball.....maybe they always got the cheap seats?.....but my dad said that the Polo Grounds was fantastic for football. He told me when he was a cop up there, he was able to get off a few hrs early to attend a Cleveland Browns vs Giants game and especially the upper deck was perfect for football. In the mid 1950.s the Browns vs Giants were probably THE big game in the NFL.
Old time NY Giants football fans may romanticize OYS, but even the Maras felt it was horrible for football. A while back I posted a link to a Nov 1, 1971 article in the New Yorker where Mara was interviewed and they discussed how it was horrible and the two main proposals to renovate OYS for football. Mara said no thanks. Mara's dad had loved the Polo Grounds and they never felt like OYS was home. "It was like living with in-laws".
I will post the link again if anyone wants to read it, but it does not really belong under the Polo Grounds thread, since the PG was barely mentioned.

http://books.google.com/books?id=-eICAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA47&lpg=PA47&dq=wellington+mara+liked+the+polo+grounds&source=bl&ots=74SFmSC1vY&sig=lX4vg8MhYNZ-KbVPoDpXghKVMUI&hl=en&ei=gp_tS_6HGsH_lgeJkfC0CA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CCQQ6AEwBTgK#v=onepage&q&f=false

SHOELESSJOE3

12-30-2010, 10:25 AM

Lpeters199

12-30-2010, 01:42 PM

It may not have been the best or even a good place to watch a ball game but for some reason, the Polo Grounds, it's history and old photos generate more interest in many baseball fans than any other park, this board illustrates that.
Myself, I can't seem to get enough photos of this place. Is it to do with the unusual configuration, I really don't know.
Watching a game there is one thing, interest in the history of the park is something else.

I agree 100 percent.

Baseball fans had reasons to dislike the Polo Grounds, but ballpark fans (this one, at least) love it. Here's my short list of reasons why:

Coogan's Bluff--You could look both down into the stadium and up at the bluff and buildings from inside.
Coogan's Bluff again--You could look through the left field stands into the stadium.
Proximity to Yankee Stadium--Two major league parks within a mile of each other. Makes for some great pictures.
Its shape--The angles of the left and right field walls and the deepest centerfield--483. Only Yankee Stadium comes close to its dimensions.
The clubhouse and offices in the outfield were add-ons that again were unlike any other stadium. Players had a long walk across the field.
The Catch--Willie Mays immortalized the batter's eye in 1954. No place else looks like that.
The railyards, then the apartment buildings. One or the other is often seen in pictures taken inside.
The bridge over the Harlem River that took fans directly to the park on the EL. The Polo Grounds shares that distinction with Yankee Stadium.
The overhang in left field.
Ads on the walls some years, no ads on others. Challenging to pinpoint when a picture was taken.

All we have now are pictures. So the bad neighborhood, bad sightlines, bad parking, and poor maintenance that fans of that day hated don't bother us now.

Paul W

12-30-2010, 02:01 PM

...So much rich history and it is sad that the city doesnt honor the area and seems to forget that baseball/football was played in that area!...

it was done many years ago...

Mr. Laser Beam

12-30-2010, 03:19 PM

Any more information on plans to restore the staircase?

Lpeters199

12-30-2010, 04:20 PM

Any more information on plans to restore the staircase?

I'll probably get blasted for this, but I like having something that still exists from the days of the Polo Grounds. Let it stay as it is--weathered and worn, but original. Restoring it would leave us with a reproduction, like RYS was to OYS.

Lpeters199

12-30-2010, 04:34 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com/1908-photo-Crowd-Cubs-Giants-final-game-/260621218582?pt=Art_Photo_Images&hash=item3cae3c3316#ht_2253wt_1045

StanTheMan

12-30-2010, 05:27 PM

I'll probably get blasted for this, but I like having something that still exists from the days of the Polo Grounds. Let it stay as it is--weathered and worn, but original. Restoring it would leave us with a reproduction, like RYS was to OYS.

You shouldn't get blasted at all.... The staircase, often called "the only remaining piece of The PG" wasn't part of The PG in my mind. Sure, it was a staircase leading from Edgecombe Ave to the Harlem Speedway, which you could then cross to get to the gates behind home plate, but for me, that's it.

Simply and old stairway connecting one street to another. The John Brush plaque at the landing is nice, but obviously New Yorkers don't seem too worried about restoration, do they? Spending significant $ on it would not be very well supported, would it? Even if it was private funds....

Lpeters199

01-01-2011, 03:15 AM

http://www.davesdougout.com/photos.html

Paul W

01-01-2011, 09:36 PM

one of the previous pix reminded me of an anomaly precular to the pg.

the extra rows of seats on the plate side of the dugouts, particularly the visiting team side.
the rounded contour looks like an old-style theater balcony box.
looks like both sides were curved but when permanent seating was installed the railing ran up to the edge of the dugout with more seats, probably club comp seats.
the 2 pix on the 3rd row show folding chairs, but when permanent seats were installed it looks like a tight fit.
in the rare times that an errant ball hit the curved railings or rolled into the void the bounces must have been unpredictable.

Lpeters199

01-02-2011, 12:47 AM

http://cgi.ebay.com/Bob-Schnelker-New-York-GIANTS-Hand-Signed-8x10-Photo-/160526044909?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2560190eed#ht_1590wt_752

http://www.hulu.com/watch/124087/team-highlights-giants-forever-history-of-ny-giants#s-p14-sr-i1

SultanOfWhat

01-02-2011, 09:15 PM

I posted this in the 1923 YS 3-D thread, but it should go here as well. It seems to be from the spring of 1923, as the Polo Grounds looks to be undergoing its major expansion:

http://i780.photobucket.com/albums/yy90/Bucket2NYY/poloviewprobably19231.jpg

http://i780.photobucket.com/albums/yy90/Bucket2NYY/poloviewprobably19232.jpg

Could that $2+ price be for box seats?

dsadowski

01-03-2011, 12:28 PM

I love this thread and have read every post in it, which took a while. I also read an excellent book "After Many a Summer," by Robert E. Murphy, which is the definitive account of how and why the Giants and Dodgers left New York. This book gives answers to many of the questions that have come up previously in this forum.

The author's basic premise is that after a period of 50 years (1903-52) of relative stability, where the same 16 teams stayed put, changes were in the offing. On the one hand, air travel made the West ripe for expansion, while television had apparently made it impossible for certain cities to support two teams (Boston, St. Louis, and Philadelphia). To some extent these same considerations affected New York, which had three teams and may have only been able to support two (the weak team being the Giants).

You would think that moving the three weakest teams to the west coast would have been a logical step, but instead the Braves went to Milwaukee, the Browns became the Baltimore Orioles, and the A's went to Kansas City- all areas being roughly in the same general boundaries MLB already covered. O'Malley's Brooklyn Dodgers were the most profitable franchise in the NL and he saw LA as a potential goldmine. O'Malley would do whatever would make the most money for himself.

Meanwhile, Horace Stoneham had allowed the Giants franchise to decline gradually, despite occasional good years like '51 and '54 and by 1957 were firmly in the second division with attendance to match. Still, they were making a profit. The parking situation at the Polo Grounds, according to the author, was actually better than most MLB teams since parking was also available a short distance away at Yankee Stadium. Still, in the early '50s Stoneham began considering a move to Minneapolis, where the city built a new baseball stadium (the Met) in hopes of landing a major league team.

O'Malley entered into negotiations with NYC for a new ballpark, but his preferred site in Brooklyn, by the LIRR terminal, would have been very expensive, and over time this became less and less of an option. O'Malley wanted to build his own ballpark and own it and the parking around it, and while the city was willing to help assemble the land, they were constrained in what they could do.

It wasn't just Robert Moses who suggested that the Giants could play in Yankee Stadium- with the stadiums so close to each other, this was a natural option even if the Yankees and Giants weren't enthused about it.

O'Malley played NY against LA and naturally New York could not come close to matching the huge land giveaway (over 315 acres) that became Chavez Ravine. O'Malley was also attracted to the idea of no rainouts, which could only be accomplished in NY with an expensive domed stadium.

While it made no sense for the Dodgers to play some of their home games in NJ (Giants country), this seems to have been a gambit to show local officials they were intent on moving if they did not get their way.

SF had a mayor who also wanted an MLB team and O'Malley acted as godfather between SF and Stoneham. They lured the Giants with promises of a new baseball park, which eventually became the debacle known as Candlestick.

As chances for a new Brooklyn site faded, Moses came up with a new idea, which is what eventually became Shea Stadium in Queens. The league ruled that if the Dodgers left town, they would consider Brooklyn and Queens open territory. So with two NL teams in NYC, those boroughs belonged to the Dodgers while Manhattan, Staten Island and the Bronx were the Giants'.

O'Malley rejected the Queens stadium idea, in part because he did not think the team would draw there (he was proven wrong by the Mets) and in part because he got a better deal from LA.

Both teams left town as we know, with the Giants announcing it first, before the end of the season, while O'Malley waited until after the '57 season ended because he did not want it to decrease attendance. It made economic sense to have two teams on the west coast, especially ones that already had a natural rivalry.

MLB had already more or less decided to expand to 10 teams per league, and the die was cast by the end of 1957 for NY to get another NL team via expansion to replace the Dodgers and Giants. But here the stumbling block was the AL. Since now the west coast had two NL teams, the AL and especially the Yankees did not want to allow another NL team in New York until the AL could go into Los Angeles- which they did with the expansion Angels.

The Giants continued to pay rent on the Polo Grounds to the Coogans through the 1961 season, and thus had a financial incentive to try and rent it out for as many events as possible in the meantime. They apparently continued to have at least one staff member in NY just for this purpose.

Yes, the proposed Continental League forced baseball's hand and acted as the catalyst to make expansion happen a few years later. But by the end of 1957, the basic plan for an expansion NL team and a new stadium in Flushing Meadow was already in place.

Joe Barrie

01-03-2011, 05:52 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com/1952-NFL-New-York-Giants-Team-Photo-Auto-40-Sig-PSA-LOA-/300501083728?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45f742a650#ht_500wt_951

From the left sleeve patch, I'd say that the photo labelled as "1953 Giants" (baseball) really shows the 1951 NL champs.

Paul W

01-03-2011, 07:34 PM

while it's nice that you have come to the story and you reinforce many points there's a few items to straighten out...

...You would think that moving the three weakest teams to the west coast would have been a logical step, but instead the Braves went to Milwaukee, the Browns became the Baltimore Orioles, and the A's went to Kansas City- all areas being roughly in the same general boundaries MLB already covered...

in the mid 50's there were only two markets on the west coast that could handle mlb, l.a. & s.f.. markets that franchises transferred to east of the mississippi were not as far away as the west coast but those cities had shown that the $$$'s were there for mlb although baltimore didn't do the senators any good.

"...Meanwhile, Horace Stoneham had allowed the Giants franchise to decline gradually..."

horace was in over his head right from the start, he had to rely heavily on a few baseball people (chub feeney especially) to make up for his lack of game knowledge and imagination. he was doomed to fail.

"...Stoneham began considering a move to Minneapolis..."

his main reason for considering this location was co$t, his franchise would not have to pay damage $$$'s to the aaa millers. another of his shortcomings was that he was cheap.

"...O'Malley entered into negotiations with NYC for a new ballpark..."

all he wanted from gracie mansion was the land, he had accumulated the capital for the construction of the building.

"...MLB had already more or less decided to expand to 10 teams per league..."

mlb had to be dragged into expansion kicking and screaming in 1961, prodded by the embryonic continental league and it's supporters political clout in congress (anti-trust investigation). most owners had little interest in opening up "the club" to new members and dragged out the process until 1960, when the franchises were awarded. sports illustrated followed this situation closely '57-'60, you can check the archives.

"...But by the end of 1957, the basic plan for an expansion NL team and a new stadium in Flushing Meadow was already in place...."

never read that anywhere. those i know which were in the business then (bob creamer, my father etc.) never brought this up.
you might do some research on n.l. prexy. warren giles who moved the n.l. office to his hometown cincinnati and said that the n.l. didn't need n.y..

Lpeters199

01-03-2011, 10:25 PM

http://www.mearsonlineauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=22906&searchby=0&searchvalue=None&page=3&sortby=0&displayby=2&lotsperpage=100&category=2&seo=1933-Team-Photo-New-York-Giants-%22The-Sporting-News-Collection-Archives%22-Original-First-Generation-10

http://www.mearsonlineauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=22167&searchby=0&searchvalue=None&page=7&sortby=0&displayby=2&lotsperpage=100&category=2&seo=1951-Chuck-Dressen-Brooklyn-Dodgers-%22The-Sporting-News-Collection-Archives%22-Original-7%22-x-9%22-Photo-(

Anubis2051

01-03-2011, 11:08 PM

Polo Grounds and YS:
http://www.corbisimages.com/images/U820994INP.jpg?size=67&uid=4be460dc-a35c-4d93-a8a4-10da283f8228&uniqID=596922e3-87cf-4e5b-b8a1-abdbbcb00028

Paul W

01-04-2011, 12:23 AM

looks like elsie the cow goes way back...

dsadowski

01-04-2011, 10:00 PM

According to the book, the AL had already decided to expand to 10 teams in the future as a precondition to allowing the St. Louis Browns franchise to move to Baltimore, which means it happened prior to the 1954 season... five years before the Continental League plans were drafted. Probably, a major stumbling block was the need to pull players from existing teams to create rosters for new teams. Some owners were very opposed to this form of "socialism," until the threat of a new league forced their hand.

Once the two NL teams left NY, leaving the Yankees as the sole team, expansion back into NYC became dependant on the AL being allowed to put a team into LA, which did not happen until the Angels in 1961. The Mets followed the year after. In theory the AL wanted to go into the SF market also, which they eventually did more or less in Oakland, but the problems the Giants began to have after Candlestick opened probably made them think twice about an AL team in San Francisco itself.

Another angle touched on in the book is the possibility that the Cinicnnati Redlegs (as they were called in the 1950s) considered moving to NY as the Dodgers and Giants were leaving town. Crosley wanted a new stadium in Cincinnati, which did not happen until 1970. But in any event, NL President Warren Giles came from Cincinnati and does not seem to have been enthused about the idea of the team shifting.

O'Malley had some $$$ but it's questionable whether even he could have afforded building a new stadium in Brooklyn on the Atlantic-Flatbush site, which would have been very expensive, especially if it had a dome. And certainly New York could not offer O'Malley anything close to what LA did- giving him more than 315 acres of prime land for a stadium that needed perhaps 20.

Even if you haven't heard about it before, all this information is quite detailed in After Many a Summer and it is an inescapable conclusion that the eventual Shea Stadium grew out of the failed attempt to keep the Dodgers in NY, and that the NL always intended to return to the NY market, either with an expansion team or by moving an existing franchise. The rest was simply a matter of logistics and internal MLB politics. The AL had already declared New York one of a handful of two-team cities, along with Chicago, Los Angeles and San Francisco.

So one key to understanding the entire business is that as of 1953, MLB decided that the west coast was fair game and that only the biggest cities could support two teams. And to this day, the basic decisions made in the 1950s about two-team cities have more or less stood the test of time. Today there are two teams in New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, SF-Oakland and Baltimore-Washington. (which has two temas only 40 miles apart). The other key is how the baseball "haves" of the 1950s, the Dodgers and Yankees, manipulated these franchise shifts to their advantage as opposed to helping the "have-nots." The Yankees benefited by becoming the only MLB team in NY and also in the shift of the Philadelphia A's to Kansas City, where the team operated practically as a farm system feeding players to the Yanks.

The Chicago connection is also interesting in that Cubs owner Phil Wrigley was key in swapping his LA stadium and minor-league franchise rights with O'Malley. Bill Veeck also shows up in the book, as a pathfinder for Wrigley, exploring the potential of the west coast for MLB, and in how he wanted to move the Browns but baseball stifled his attempts to profit from the deal. Apparently he had intended to make the Browns the dominant team in St. Louis until the Busch family bought the Cards. Then he knew he could not keep up with them.

Lpeters199

01-04-2011, 10:28 PM

http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675050162_Leo-Durocher_New-York-Giants_Commissioner-Chandler_disembark-a-plane

http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675076546_television-industry_cameramen-recording_baseball-match_horse-racing

Paul W

01-04-2011, 10:42 PM

dsadowski,
i suggest you do more reading and research from other sources on this topic, using one source such as "After Many a Summer" as fact can lead to a false conclusion on this.

google newspaper archives are a good start, i use it.

dsadowski

01-05-2011, 07:40 AM

I've read everything I can on the subject and am not, as you say, relying on one source as fact. But this is an excellent book on the subject, very well researched, with more newspaper and magazine articles cited than any other similar book I've found. If you disagree with any of its conclusions, let's hear reasons why instead of simply dismissing it. Then we can discuss the pros and cons. So, let's hear it. What parts of the book do you take issue with? Have you read the book?

My general approach to a subject is to read everything I can about it, then make up my own mind.

StanTheMan

01-05-2011, 09:49 AM

You fellas can discuss it all you want.... but in the Polo Grounds Picture thread????

dsadowski

01-05-2011, 10:36 AM

OK, sticking to those aspects of After Many a Summer that pertain to the Polo Grounds:

1. Stoneham apparently made no effort to build additional parking around the Polo Grounds when it was possible (after the rail yard was closed) but he later complained that the city had made the area around the ballpark worse (by building high rise public housing instead of additional parking). The author opines that Stoneham allowed the once-dominant Giants' franchise to slip over time, so that by 1957 an influential NYer described them as a well-run second division ballclub.

2. At one point, Stoneham said that he had never asked the city to build him a new stadium; however, he had said that if the city did build a new park, his team would play in it.

3. There was more to the idea of the Giants moving into Yankee Stadium than just an errant suggestion made by Robert Moses. It was a natural suggestion (the ballparks were a stone's throw from each other, and after all the Yanks were tenants in the Polo Grounds for many years) and discussions did go so far as Stoneham meeting with Yankees ownership to discuss it.

4. The Giants retained a financial interest in the Polo Grounds that continued beyond the 1957 season. They continued to have an employee in New York to help rent out the stadium, since they continued to pay rent to the Coogans through the 1961 season.

Paul W

01-05-2011, 11:14 AM

the author loses credibility in the introduction.
no explanation on why he doesn't "trust" the thesis.
he should have read "the power broker"
for 40 years, moses was the most powerful official in ny state - more powerful than the many nyc mayors and governors in his era.

Lpeters199

01-05-2011, 03:45 PM

1949 in the Polo Grounds:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,800235,00.html

dsadowski

01-06-2011, 01:37 PM

mandrake

01-06-2011, 02:52 PM

In the opinion of the author of After Many a Summer, Robert Moses is not the villain in the Giants and Dodgers leaving NY, and presents a detailed case that he did what he could to help. But what Walter O'Malley wanted could not be achieved by the local politicians.

He wanted a privately built and owned baseball-only stadium and not the multi-use municipal stadium that eventually got built in Queens. His insistance on that and a location in Brooklyn, which was already built up, meant a new stadium would be mucho expensive, especially with the dome O'Malley wanted to prevent rainouts.

There was really no way for NY to compete with what LA offered, and once O'Malley decided to leave town in early 1957, the NY officials felt they were being used by him.

Discussion of a stadium in Queens did not come up until it was obvious that the Atlantic-Flatbush site was too expensive and could not be built. Moses was limited in what he could do by Federal law, specifically using Title 1.

I posted this in the NY Giants forum in Sept 2009:

Robert Moses ran the Giants out of NY

I don't know if this was posted before.......

For years, the O'Malley apologists have tried to push the lie that they were run out of NYC by Moses. I have found this article that seems to confirm that Moses did run a baseball team out of NYC....the Jints !

November 6, 1953
Mr. Horace C. Stoneham
President
National Exhibition Co.
100 West 42 Street
New York 36, N.Y.
Dear Mr. Stoneham:
The newspapers have carried numerous stories in the past year to the effect that various baseball clubs were considered transferring their franchises to other cities. While I have not read any announcement to that effect about the New York Giants, it seemed quite obvious from the attendance figures that the maintenance of a separate stadium must be a terrific drain on the ball club.
You are familiar with the housing project which the City built just north of the Polo Grounds. The site, occupied by the Polo Grounds itself and the parking field adjacent thereto, being one of the last large open spaces in Manhattan, would make an excellent site for additional housing.
I have no direct knowledge about the matter, but it would seem to me that the owners of the New York Yankees would welcome the idea of having another club in a different league use their park as has been done successfully in other places. To an outsider, it would appear that it would certainly save money for both clubs.
I don't know how many years your lease has to go on the Coogan property or what other stumbling blocks there might be in the way of this proposal. I should like very much to know whether you have considered such a consolidation and whether you consider it feasible and desirable. Is there any possibility of such a consolidation becoming effective by the next baseball season?
Cordially, Robert Moses, Co-Ordinator.

Feeley stated that this letter started the Giants in the direction of leaving New York.Afterwards, Stoneham and Feeley visited Moses in his office on Randalls Island, a small island located in the East River between Manhattan and the Bronx. Moses stated that he wanted to put public housing on the Polo Grounds site. When Moses suggested that the Giants move into Yankee Stadium, Stoneham told him that such doubling-up was not the custom in baseball.
Feeley also pointed to an incident which happened in 1955. The Giants had leased a small parking lot on the north side of 155th Street. The City condemned the small parking lot to put a school there. Feeley described this as another sign that the Giants were insecure in their Polo Grounds home.
Attendance at Giants games declined in the 1950's as the team dropped in the standings after 1954. In 1956, home attendance was 707,579; in 1957 it was 700,279. The Giants also lost the rental paid by the football Giants after 1955. The average annual rent paid by the football Giants for the 1951-55 period was $53,480.
Feeley stated that the baseball Giants left New York primarily because they believed that the City was going to take the Polo Grounds; the meeting with Moses and the seizure of the parking lot on 155th Street were the source of this anxiety. Feeley said that Stoneham began serious consideration of leaving New York in 1956 or 1957. He also said that if the City had offered the Giants a municipal stadium, they would not have left.

http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?93395-Robert-Moses-ran-the-Giants-out-of-NY

gtru1981

01-07-2011, 04:28 PM

Here is my opinion on Robert Moses and what he did to New York. I just did a report about him for a history class. Robert Moses is an evil dictactor!

1.) He wanted the land from the Polo Grounds for the low income housing. If i was the owner of the Giants, i would be mad with a letter like that and telling me to go play at Yankee Stadium. Why didnt Moses offer Shea to the Giants?? He didnt care for the Giants or Baseball, so them leaving was no big deal.
2.) As far as Walter O Malley, i think it was a 50\50 thing, i do beleive that Moses is to blame for this as well. Why would you offer land in QUEENS for a Team that has Brookyln on their name?? I think Moses got under O'Malleys skin, because read "Forever Blue", it was a great book. The only reason he offered the Shea land to the Dodgers, was because Moses built Flushing Corona park and the Worlds Fair aka HIS PROJECT!! I bet during that time, their was still plenty of land in Brookyln to build a stadium.
3.) Moses didnt care about the people of NYC, just himself and his greedy projects! He detroyed the original Penn Station, the 64 Worlds Fair was a financial disaster and the outcome was tolls on NYC Bridges. He ignored public transportation (reason why the subway system is so messed up because Moses didnt care for it). Moses only cared about making his projects and keeping money and if he didnt start to lose his power, their would have been a highway right through Soho!

Also an interesting fact, i know this sight is about the Polo Grounds, but Walter O'Malley was actually a New York Giants fan before he became the owner of the Dodgers.

dstoffa

01-07-2011, 04:56 PM

Here is my opinion on Robert Moses and what he did to New York. I just did a report about him for a history class. Robert Moses is an evil dictactor!

Hind-sight is 20-20. If you were living in tennemant housing back in the 20's, 30's, and 40's, you wouldn't be so quick to bash Moses. He was the Parks Commissioner, and built plenty of parks for the residents of the City, and the State of New York. He also built the parkways (that is why they are called such -- ways to the parks) so that people could get there. The horseless carriage was the new big thing, and we as a nation were going to build to roads to make use of it.

Now, by the end of the second World War, he had ammassed so much power, that he was going to let nothing stop him from creating his vision of New York. That meant expressways everywhere. His actions were very noble and welcomed in the beginning. But he will always be remembered for bulldozing the Bronx, for taking the Meat Axe to Lower Manhattan, and putting in SuperBlocks.

He was a creature of his time, who maybe had too much time...

1.) He wanted the land from the Polo Grounds for the low income housing. If i was the owner of the Giants, i would be mad with a letter like that and telling me to go play at Yankee Stadium. Why didnt Moses offer Shea to the Giants?? He didnt care for the Giants or Baseball, so them leaving was no big deal.

He cared about his agenda. And with this, yes, I agree. His only goal was to get the land for things he could build for his vision, and that was public housing.

2.) As far as Walter O Malley, i think it was a 50\50 thing, i do beleive that Moses is to blame for this as well. Why would you offer land in QUEENS for a Team that has Brookyln on their name?? I think Moses got under O'Malleys skin, because read "Forever Blue", it was a great book. The only reason he offered the Shea land to the Dodgers, was because Moses built Flushing Corona park and the Worlds Fair aka HIS PROJECT!! I bet during that time, their was still plenty of land in Brookyln to build a stadium.

Walter O'Malley and Robert Moses were two peas in different pods. They were both stubborn and arrogant, and always went the extra mile to get their way. Although Walter lost in New York, he won in Los Angeles. Big time.

Moses' vision had the municipal stadium in Queens, which he deemed the geographic center of the city.
O'Malley would have taken the Queens site if the city just sold him the land. O'Malley knew at the time that the money was always in the incidentals (parking, concessions). He couldn't control it in a municipal stadium. That is why he wanted to build and own it himself. Los Angeles gave him what New York couldn't. 300+ acres downtown. You'd be a jack-a$$ not to take it.

3.) Moses didnt care about the people of NYC, just himself and his greedy projects! He detroyed the original Penn Station, the 64 Worlds Fair was a financial disaster and the outcome was tolls on NYC Bridges. He ignored public transportation (reason why the subway system is so messed up because Moses didnt care for it). Moses only cared about making his projects and keeping money and if he didnt start to lose his power, their would have been a highway right through Soho!

Robert Moses did not destroy Old Penn Station. The Pennsylvania Railroad decided to divest itself of a structure that it had built on its own with private funds. The RR was hemmoraging money in the 50's, as the airplane took over the train for long distance travel, and the car overtook the train for shorter distances. Greyhounds were more efficient than trains in moving people to different places. The Pennsylvania optioned the air rights to Penn Station in the mid 50's. When the Garden came along looking for a new home, they saw a gold mine on top of two subway lines and the largest commuter railroad in the world. When all was said and done, the Pennsylvania RR got a 25% stake of the office complex above Penn, along with a similar stake in the Garden itself. They figured that it would turn a handsome profit. By the time the Garden opened in 1968, the Pennsy was already bankrupt, and merged with the NY Central RR. And THEY were ready to tear down Grand Central. Penn Station was the martyr for the Landmarks Preservation Law. You must remember, that old Penn was private property, and was taxed heavily by the City. It's wasn't a municipal building, like the airports and the roads. Economic conditions changed so much that passenger railroading became uneconomical. The Pennsy didn't take care of it. It was a dark, sooty tomb, that people were glad to see go. It wasn't an economical building.

The 1964 Worlds Fair Lost money. That is true. But that was because the Fair was not sanctioned by the World's Fair International committee or something. In a nutshell, a nation can only hold a fair once every 10 years. There was one in Seattle in 1962. Also, to be sanctioned, the pavillions were to be paid for by the City, and could only be open for a 6 month period. The committee of the NY Fair knew they'd need to be open for 2 years, and they'd have to charge the exhibitors rent. This ended up keeping international exhibitors away (afraid of being black-balled by this committee). Moses wouldn't wait for his turn, and as a result, had to turn away a lot of European, Canadian, and Aussie dollars.

There was no land in Brooklyn in which to build a 55,000 seat stadium with 25,000 parking spaces near highways. Not in 1955. Not now.

As for ignoring public transit? It wasn't under his jurisdiction. And providing for additional rights of way (for mass transit) to build his later projects (the LIE and Van Wyck, for example) would have put his projects over budget. If you had the choice of an expressway or nothing, people wanted the expressway. Trains were so last century in 1955. The tolls exist because mass transit is not self sufficent. If there were no tolls, trust me, fares would be so high nobody would use the trains. Buses would be stuck in traffic, and NOBODY would get to work, because there would be no place to park your car. The high tolls are a deterrent to driving in the city.

Also an interesting fact, i know this sight is about the Polo Grounds, but Walter O'Malley was actually a New York Giants fan before he became the owner of the Dodgers.

Yep. Read that one, too.

In the end, Moses was a product of his time. You have to judge him in that context.

Cheers!
-Doug

EdTarbusz

01-07-2011, 05:19 PM

Moses was limited in what he could do by Federal law, specifically using Title 1.

You should read The Power Broker. Moses had a talent for getting around federal law when he wanted to.

Paul W

01-07-2011, 05:22 PM

You should read The Power Broker. Moses had a talent for getting around federal law when he wanted to.

he had bond dealers and contractors behind him, they made sure that loca/fed. statutes in their way were changed.
that line from watergate keeps coming to mind "...follow the money..."

Paul W

01-07-2011, 05:24 PM

from what i've read of the book in question, the author has unearthed some good detail on many of the main characters.
but many of his assumptions don't jive with what actually happened.

gtru1981

01-07-2011, 05:41 PM

you must be pro-Moses, in my opinion i am not a fan of his. I will agree he did good in the beginning with building LI and all the expressways. But over time we got greedy and took control of everything! Remember, he is at fault for detroying the Bronx. But its my opinion and you have yours and i will repect yours. But this is a forum for the Polo Grounds lol and not Robert Moses

Hind-sight is 20-20. If you were living in tennemant housing back in the 20's, 30's, and 40's, you wouldn't be so quick to bash Moses. He was the Parks Commissioner, and built plenty of parks for the residents of the City, and the State of New York. He also built the parkways (that is why they are called such -- ways to the parks) so that people could get there. The horseless carriage was the new big thing, and we as a nation were going to build to roads to make use of it.

Now, by the end of the second World War, he had ammassed so much power, that he was going to let nothing stop him from creating his vision of New York. That meant expressways everywhere. His actions were very noble and welcomed in the beginning. But he will always be remembered for bulldozing the Bronx, for taking the Meat Axe to Lower Manhattan, and putting in SuperBlocks.

He was a creature of his time, who maybe had too much time...

He cared about his agenda. And with this, yes, I agree. His only goal was to get the land for things he could build for his vision, and that was public housing.

Walter O'Malley and Robert Moses were two peas in different pods. They were both stubborn and arrogant, and always went the extra mile to get their way. Although Walter lost in New York, he won in Los Angeles. Big time.

Moses' vision had the municipal stadium in Queens, which he deemed the geographic center of the city.
O'Malley would have taken the Queens site if the city just sold him the land. O'Malley knew at the time that the money was always in the incidentals (parking, concessions). He couldn't control it in a municipal stadium. That is why he wanted to build and own it himself. Los Angeles gave him what New York couldn't. 300+ acres downtown. You'd be a jack-a$$ not to take it.

Robert Moses did not destroy Old Penn Station. The Pennsylvania Railroad decided to divest itself of a structure that it had built on its own with private funds. The RR was hemmoraging money in the 50's, as the airplane took over the train for long distance travel, and the car overtook the train for shorter distances. Greyhounds were more efficient than trains in moving people to different places. The Pennsylvania optioned the air rights to Penn Station in the mid 50's. When the Garden came along looking for a new home, they saw a gold mine on top of two subway lines and the largest commuter railroad in the world. When all was said and done, the Pennsylvania RR got a 25% stake of the office complex above Penn, along with a similar stake in the Garden itself. They figured that it would turn a handsome profit. By the time the Garden opened in 1968, the Pennsy was already bankrupt, and merged with the NY Central RR. And THEY were ready to tear down Grand Central. Penn Station was the martyr for the Landmarks Preservation Law. You must remember, that old Penn was private property, and was taxed heavily by the City. It's wasn't a municipal building, like the airports and the roads. Economic conditions changed so much that passenger railroading became uneconomical. The Pennsy didn't take care of it. It was a dark, sooty tomb, that people were glad to see go. It wasn't an economical building.

The 1964 Worlds Fair Lost money. That is true. But that was because the Fair was not sanctioned by the World's Fair International committee or something. In a nutshell, a nation can only hold a fair once every 10 years. There was one in Seattle in 1962. Also, to be sanctioned, the pavillions were to be paid for by the City, and could only be open for a 6 month period. The committee of the NY Fair knew they'd need to be open for 2 years, and they'd have to charge the exhibitors rent. This ended up keeping international exhibitors away (afraid of being black-balled by this committee). Moses wouldn't wait for his turn, and as a result, had to turn away a lot of European, Canadian, and Aussie dollars.

There was no land in Brooklyn in which to build a 55,000 seat stadium with 25,000 parking spaces near highways. Not in 1955. Not now.

As for ignoring public transit? It wasn't under his jurisdiction. And providing for additional rights of way (for mass transit) to build his later projects (the LIE and Van Wyck, for example) would have put his projects over budget. If you had the choice of an expressway or nothing, people wanted the expressway. Trains were so last century in 1955. The tolls exist because mass transit is not self sufficent. If there were no tolls, trust me, fares would be so high nobody would use the trains. Buses would be stuck in traffic, and NOBODY would get to work, because there would be no place to park your car. The high tolls are a deterrent to driving in the city.

Yep. Read that one, too.

In the end, Moses was a product of his time. You have to judge him in that context.

Cheers!
-Doug

Paul W

01-07-2011, 05:59 PM

...you must be pro-Moses...

well, not really.
it's hard to imagine the metro area without what he was responsible for, great cities do need dynamic leaders.
but, because of his early successes his imperious persona got the best of him and he used his allies (tb&ta, bonds & construction) fight any oversight.
he could be handled though, look at what happened with the highways in staten island. local leaders there were able to keep most the the greenspace he wanted to use and still get the roads built.

Lpeters199

01-07-2011, 11:00 PM

http://www.nydailynewspix.com/sales/home.php

dstoffa

01-08-2011, 04:57 AM

JOVE23

01-08-2011, 10:54 AM

you must be pro-Moses

I'm pro-Pharaoh.

*rimshot*

Perseus71

01-08-2011, 01:26 PM

Moses was definitely a scumbag for his contribution to New York National Baseball and should have been sued by every national league fan here in the NYC area for abuse of political power... I'm actually surprised someone didn't go after him as a result of the two teams leaving after 1957. Regardless had Robert Moses not been around, at least one of the National League teams would have left New York City... Sort of funny how O'Malley wanted to build a new stadium in the Atlantic Yards area and now the Brooklyn Nets are building a new arena there.

Paul W

01-08-2011, 02:24 PM

r... I'm actually surprised someone didn't go after him as a result of the two teams leaving after 1957...

can't be serious, can you?
ny'ers went on with their lives and learned all about the biz of baseball.

Blue387

01-08-2011, 08:51 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4CK3hld-yg

Mets versus Braves at the Polo Grounds, 1962.

Based on the score at the end of the clip, it was the game on Wednesday, June 20, 1962. The Mets lost to the Braves 9-4.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/NYN/NYN196206201.shtml

Lpeters199

01-08-2011, 09:09 PM

Thanks, Blue387! What a ballpark! Frank Thomas' homer was a carbon copy of Bobby Thomson's Shot, except it was one section further out toward center and you can see the ball. Those home runs are terrific to see so clearly.

locke40

01-08-2011, 09:13 PM

Thanks, Blue387! What a ballpark!

Probably my favorite ballpark. The history, the shape, the location, the name. It was perfect.

Chef Bill

01-08-2011, 09:45 PM

Good find Blue387! Looking at the clip directly on YouTube turned up this footage of the Titans, early 1960s. It looks to me like a mix of games vs. possibly the Oakland Raiders, and towards the end, the Houston Oilers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkmcM-8v028

Lpeters199

01-08-2011, 11:39 PM

Another good one. It's interesting to see the walls had been painted grey, but it had no ads yet. I liked the ads during the Mets years.

Blue387

01-09-2011, 12:24 AM

Apparently my clip was posted before in this thread, sorry.
http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?56604-The-Polo-Grounds&p=1805080#post1805080

Lpeters199

01-09-2011, 12:59 AM

Apparently my clip was posted before in this thread, sorry.
http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?56604-The-Polo-Grounds&p=1805080#post1805080

I missed the previous post of the clip, so it was your post that led me to it. This is the reason I think quibbles about reposts are so wrong. Reposts don't do any harm to people who've seen them before, and they help those who haven't. No apology necessary. Thanks again for a great clip.

Jays_Fan

01-09-2011, 08:28 AM

Perseus71

01-09-2011, 12:13 PM

can't be serious, can you?
ny'ers went on with their lives and learned all about the biz of baseball.

Of course not, but I am surprised there wasn't more public anger at this guy for his role in the exodus of two National League teams out of NYC.

Paul W

01-09-2011, 12:40 PM

Of course not, but I am surprised there wasn't more public anger at this guy for his role in the exodus of two National League teams out of NYC.

again, that anger would not have changed the situation.
ny'ers went on with their lives w/o n.l. baseball...

Lpeters199

01-12-2011, 10:30 PM

ol' aches and pains

01-13-2011, 06:08 AM

Apparently my clip was posted before in this thread, sorry.
http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?56604-The-Polo-Grounds&p=1805080#post1805080

Who even bothers to check such things? Somebody has the time to go through 2440 posts and 98 pages? I also missed it the first time, so thanks.

Interesting (to me anyway), the announcer on that clip is Earl Gillespie, the Milwaukee Braves radio PBP guy. This footage must be from the Braves' 1962 highlight film.

Lpeters199

01-13-2011, 11:39 PM

http://store.tribunephotos.com/Items/aaj-673-ct?sck=1210482&caSKU=aaj-673-ct&caTitle=New%20York%20Aerial%20View%20Post%201956%2 0-%20Chicago%20Tribune

jpr281

01-14-2011, 12:24 AM

Polo Grounds and YS:
http://www.corbisimages.com/images/U820994INP.jpg?size=67&uid=4be460dc-a35c-4d93-a8a4-10da283f8228&uniqID=596922e3-87cf-4e5b-b8a1-abdbbcb00028Is there for the train yard(?) immediately to the left of the PG?

SHOELESSJOE3

01-14-2011, 04:14 AM

http://store.tribunephotos.com/Items/aex-779-ct?sck=41081279&caSKU=aex-779-ct&caTitle=Lou%20Brock%20Chicago%20Cubs%20-%20Chicago%20Tribune

http://store.tribunephotos.com/Items/aex-781-ct?sck=41081279&caSKU=aex-781-ct&caTitle=Lou%20Brock%20Chicago%20Cubs%20-%20Chicago%20Tribune

For the record, that Brock home run bounced off the top of the screen or wall so it just made clearing that fence. Not taking anything away from Lou, that is a long drive. How does this happen in a two day period in 1962. Brock clears the right side and the next day Aaron clears the left side, Adcock in 1953.

Neither one, 170 pound Brock and 180 pound Aaron noted for hitting tape measure jobs, back to back days.
Hank, him I could see, with his swing every so often getting in to one.

Lpeters199

01-14-2011, 06:57 AM

SHOELESSJOE3

01-14-2011, 10:35 AM

[QUOTE=SHOELESSJOE3;1837501]For the record, that Brock home run bounced off the top of the screen or wall so it just made clearing that fence. Not taking anything away from Lou, that is a long drive. How does this happen in a two day period in 1962.

Mets pitching helped.

Still, twice in two days, back to back. There had to be some terrible pitching by the earlier Giants and opposing teams and yet it happened on those two days only, other than Adcock. Wonder what the weather conditions were, wind speed those two days.

Myself, doubtful it was weather related, probably just one of those things, angle of the pitch coming in, speed and some luck, hit on the sweet spot of the bat.....................but again, why not all those other years, many years.

One other thing, Kiner and a small number of other hitters hit some in between the left and right side that may have made it to the bleachers if not hit closer to dead center.

StanTheMan

01-14-2011, 06:04 PM

Lpeters199

01-14-2011, 06:14 PM

Nice photos from Brock's mammoth shot. They are new to me, Thanks for posting them. With all the Brock, Aaron, Adcock talk, don't forget about Luke Easter, who reached the CF bleachers in a Negro League game. I have little info on the where and the when, and have never seen photos.

The only other ball I've heard of to reach the bleachers was hit by Schoolboy Rowe, a pitcher, in batting practice. This paragraph was written by Charlie Gehringer.

Anubis2051

01-14-2011, 08:59 PM

[QUOTE=Lpeters199;1837547]

Still, twice in two days, back to back. There had to be some terrible pitching by the earlier Giants and opposing teams and yet it happened on those two days only, other than Adcock. Wonder what the weather conditions were, wind speed those two days.

Myself, doubtful it was weather related, probably just one of those things, angle of the pitch coming in, speed and some luck, hit on the sweet spot of the bat.....................but again, why not all those other years, many years.

One other thing, Kiner and a small number of other hitters hit some in between the left and right side that may have made it to the bleachers if not hit closer to dead center.

The towers were up at that point, the wind passing though them was probably stronger than when the Giants were there.

Lpeters199

01-14-2011, 11:17 PM

Is there for the train yard(?) immediately to the left of the PG?

You can find information and pictures at these sites:

http://picasaweb.google.com/MercuryWW/NinthAveElevatedYardAt158thSt#

http://warofyesterday.blogspot.com/2010/12/riding-el-5-155th-st.html

Lpeters199

01-15-2011, 01:29 AM

Ashburn must have been playing Brock 400 feet deep (bottom picture).

Lpeters199

01-15-2011, 03:24 PM

1949 Giants:

BSmile

01-15-2011, 09:35 PM

John McGraw Jubilee - July 19, 1927

alpineinc

01-15-2011, 10:31 PM

...Interesting (to me anyway), the announcer on that clip is Earl Gillespie, the Milwaukee Braves radio PBP guy. This footage must be from the Braves' 1962 highlight film.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4CK3hld-yg

Love the dig against the Mets near the end. "Vinegar Bend Mizell dishes up a pitch that Joe Adcock belts into oblivion. Say what you may about the Mets pitchers, but never call 'em stingy." Great clip, so few with Mets in color (as it were) at the PG.

Paul W

01-17-2011, 12:57 AM

Say what you may about the Mets pitchers, but never call 'em stingy."...

that's putting it mildly...

J.E.Fullerton

01-17-2011, 02:12 AM

John McGraw Jubilee - July 19, 1927
Interesting picture. It's funny, Admiral Byrd looks more dapper than Jimmy Walker. Hughie Jennings is leaning on that cane pretty heavily, I gather he had some pretty rough injuries in his time. Why is Stoneham standing so strangely, did he have bad health problems? And did Landis cut his own hair?

FENWAY FRANKY

01-17-2011, 07:47 AM

Stoneham had bad kidney trouble (Bright's) and does look in pain.
Hughie Jennings was near the end of the line that summer, a really old 58 years old.

BSmile

01-17-2011, 08:18 AM

...And did Landis cut his own hair?

Hahaha!!!
Yeah, he looks pretty crazed in so many of the pic's I've seen of him.

Lpeters199

01-18-2011, 09:35 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com/BABE-RUTH-WIRE-PHOTO-CLASSIC-BOSTON-BRAVES-POLO-GROUNDS-/400188869811?pt=Vintage_Sports_Memorabilia&hash=item5d2d1d8cb3#ht_1146wt_907

Blue387

01-19-2011, 02:39 AM

Please delete, double post, sorry.

Blue387

01-19-2011, 02:40 AM

The New York Times has written an article about the Polo Grounds in tomorrow's paper.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/20/sports/20polo.html

kpennington

01-19-2011, 05:30 AM

"Hughie Jennings is leaning on that cane pretty heavily, I gather he had some pretty rough injuries in his time."

In reading about Jennings, he fractured his skull a couple of times over the years (a beaning and a car accident) and actually had a nervous breakdown in 1925 and spent 1926-1928 in a nursing home/sanitarium.

Im guessing he was at the ceremony as he was one of McGraw's very best friends.

ol' aches and pains

01-19-2011, 05:59 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4CK3hld-yg

Love the dig against the Mets near the end. "Vinegar Bend Mizell dishes up a pitch that Joe Adcock belts into oblivion. Say what you may about the Mets pitchers, but never call 'em stingy." Great clip, so few with Mets in color (as it were) at the PG.

I like "Ray Daviault deals, Gus Bell Wheels, and New York squeals". Gillespie at his corny best.

mandrake

01-19-2011, 09:24 AM

One of the most famous fights, some Polo Grounds shots 2 minutes in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvP7Ew_V14Q

Chef Bill

01-19-2011, 10:18 AM

J.E.Fullerton

01-19-2011, 10:04 PM

In reading about Jennings, he fractured his skull a couple of times over the years (a beaning and a car accident) and actually had a nervous breakdown in 1925 and spent 1926-1928 in a nursing home/sanitarium.

The skull fracture of his that I read about was from diving into a swimming pool that he didn't realise was empty, so that he basically landed on concrete. He must've been pretty tough to survive all that.

alpineinc

01-20-2011, 09:34 PM

If you haven't seen it already, you'll be interested in this article from today's New York Times...

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/20/sports/20polo.html

The article includes a photo slideshow of the variety of events held at the Polo Grounds over the years, as well as links to many other stories and pictures.

Some great stuff there. Many photos already here, of course, but some that aren't, I believe. A sampling:

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2011/01/20/sports/POLOGROUNDS1/POLOGROUNDS1-popup.jpg

http://www.vintagephotos.com/Casey%20Stengel%20Farewell%20to%20Polo%20Grounds%2 0by%20Nat%20Fein%20Copyrights%20Nat%20Fein%20Estat e%2090%20DPI.jpg

1951
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj90/alpineinc/pg1a.jpg

1951
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj90/alpineinc/pg2a.png

1920 - Ireland hunger striker memorial
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj90/alpineinc/pg3a.jpg

1961
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj90/alpineinc/pg4a.jpg

1959
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj90/alpineinc/pg5a.jpg

StanTheMan

01-21-2011, 11:40 AM

http://pushpull.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/polo-grounds-new3.jpg?w=495&h=373

Has this photo of the Staircase been posted yet? I don't recall seeing it

StanTheMan

01-21-2011, 12:02 PM

The only other ball I've heard of to reach the bleachers was hit by Schoolboy Rowe, a pitcher, in batting practice. This paragraph was written by Charlie Gehringer.

http://www.nlbpa.com/Easter_Luke2.jpg

Luke Easter reached the CF bleachers in a Negro League game in 1948, when he was playing for the Homestead Grays. His homer came before Adcocks, and of course before Brock's and Aarons in 1962.

From Stew Thornley's excellent "Land of the Giants" the feat is mentioned on page 118 and 105.

And also here.....

http://www.nlbpa.com/easter__luke.html

Mygirljess

01-22-2011, 09:44 AM

Willie Mays returns to the Polo Grounds.

http://www.ny_dailynews.com/ny_local/2011/01/22/2011-01-22_giant_heart_for_kids_baseball_great_mays_gives_ gifts___cnote.html (http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2011/01/22/2011-01-22_giant_heart_for_kids_baseball_great_mays_gives_ gifts___cnote.html)

Joe Barrie

01-22-2011, 01:02 PM

Where is Leo in this photo of the 1949 Giants? Herman Franks is there, with Jack Lohrke and then Bill Rigney to his right. The batboy and one player are wearing 1948 jerseys, by the way.

EdTarbusz

01-22-2011, 04:49 PM

Where is Leo in this photo of the 1949 Giants? Herman Franks is there, with Jack Lohrke and then Bill Rigney to his right. The batboy and one player are wearing 1948 jerseys, by the way.

At first glance I thought Durocher was in the back row, second from the left.

Lpeters199

01-23-2011, 01:14 AM

http://www.mearsonlineauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=24387&searchby=0&searchvalue=None&page=1&sortby=0&displayby=2&lotsperpage=100&category=3&seo=1930s-New-York-Yankees-Lot-%232-%22The-Sporting-News-Collection-Archives%22-Original-Photo-(Sporting-News-

http://www.mearsonlineauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=24183&searchby=0&searchvalue=None&page=2&sortby=0&displayby=2&lotsperpage=100&category=3&seo=1940s-to-1990s-Fan-Photos-%22The-Sporting-News-Collection-Archives%22-Original-Photos-(Sporting-News-Col#

http://www.mearsonlineauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=24167&searchby=0&searchvalue=None&page=2&sortby=0&displayby=2&lotsperpage=100&category=3&seo=1942-45-Horace-Stoneham-Mayor-Fiorello-LaGuardia-General-Ike-Eisenhower-%22The-Sporting-News-Collectio

http://www.mearsonlineauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=23914&searchby=0&searchvalue=None&page=3&sortby=0&displayby=2&lotsperpage=100&category=3&seo=1947-56-New-York-Giants-%22The-Sporting-News-Collection-Archives%22-Original-Photos-(Sporting-News-Colle

Lpeters199

01-24-2011, 01:46 AM

http://www.gottahaveit.com/itemdetail.aspx?itemid=1454&sortby=5&searchtype=0&search=&lotsperpage=25&categoryid=79&displayby=2&pagetype=0&page=4&seo=Willie-Mays-Signed-Photograph

http://cgi.ebay.com/1951-Douglas-MacAthur-Watches-Phillies-Vs-Giants-Photo-/270695020489?pt=Art_Photo_Images&hash=item3f06ae37c9#ht_3456wt_861

mandrake

01-24-2011, 04:39 AM

Look at Horace Stoneham in 1951 with MacArthur and them look a few pictures above in 1945 with Ike. He looks a lot more aged than just 6 years difference.

kpennington

01-24-2011, 05:16 AM

I didnt even recognize that person as being Horace Stoneham. Wow Lost quite a bit of hair too (although Im not one to talk about that topic :)).

Paul W

01-24-2011, 01:58 PM

Look at Horace Stoneham in 1951 with MacArthur and them look a few pictures above in 1945 with Ike. He looks a lot more aged than just 6 years difference.

heavy drinking will do that.

gtru1981

01-24-2011, 07:22 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU9QqBOSBLQ

Nice video about Willie when he played for the NY Giants and the guy finding the plaque where home base use to be for the Polo Grounds

Paul W

01-24-2011, 09:24 PM

interesting that after the gi-ants abandoned nyc, mays owned a house in new rochelle not in harlem.

Lpeters199

01-25-2011, 12:37 AM

http://cgi.ebay.com/1923-photo-New-York-City-Mayor-James-J-Hylan-and-Judg-/260621663091?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cae42fb73#ht_2380wt_1045

http://cgi.ebay.com/Orig-Slide-NYC-Polo-Grounds-Stadium-New-York-Mets-1963-/400189817560?pt=Art_Photo_Images&hash=item5d2d2c02d8#ht_1890wt_1102

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-35mm-Slide-Photo-New-York-Red-Kodachrome-/150540089447?pt=Art_Photo_Images&hash=item230ce37867#ht_712wt_987

http://cgi.ebay.com/1957-Polo-Grounds-NY-Giants-Baseball-Stadium-Photo-/390283340905?pt=Art_Photo_Images&hash=item5adeb32c69#ht_500wt_717

http://www.life.com/image/50500462

Lpeters199

01-27-2011, 01:50 PM

The beginning and the end.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Polo-Grounds-3-Photo-New-York-Giants-1923-/140395433961?pt=US_Baseball_Fan_Shop&hash=item20b0384fe9#ht_2316wt_936

http://cgi.ebay.com/63-METS-GIANTS-POLO-GROUNDS-AUTOGRAPHED-PHOTO-13-MAYS-/350434855778?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51978b8b62#ht_500wt_951

KurtDman24

01-27-2011, 06:02 PM

I love all of the new ballparks I've been to, but honestly I wished I could have been around to see games at Polo Grounds, Ebbets Field, Shibe Park, Crosley, Forbes, Sportsman's and all of those classic places. Great photos. You would never see a ballpark with fences so far from home plate today!

Lpeters199

01-30-2011, 12:07 AM

http://cgi.ebay.com/1941-NEW-YORK-AREA-FOOTBALL-SCHEDULE-COLLEGE-PRO-MAP-/110642418609?pt=Vintage_Sports_Memorabilia&hash=item19c2cd53b1#ht_500wt_951

Can anyone make the fine print readable?

Mario Mendoza...HOF Lock

01-30-2011, 10:52 AM

^ This 1940 pamphlet is a little clearer

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5294/5401333907_5be95d2907_o.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5139/5401933490_052af07d0e_o.jpg

Lpeters199

01-30-2011, 11:19 AM

Thanks, Mario.

alpineinc

01-30-2011, 07:02 PM

Wow, those football schedules are amazing. Lot of info too!

Lpeters199

01-31-2011, 01:41 PM

http://hypeskin.com/shop/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=20110519

Lpeters199

02-01-2011, 12:18 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mReVQnTzyts&feature=player_embedded#

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQWQMAHCzZs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVXPmYAEk-8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5nvWXLLD0k&feature=related

http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675039753_radio-station-men_Polo-Grounds_radio-announcer-interviews-man-on-sidewalk_crowd-in-stands

Lpeters199

02-02-2011, 01:08 AM

Christy Mathewson pitching:

RichieA13

02-02-2011, 09:04 AM

Does ANYONE who attended games in The Polo Grounds (or armed with definitive photographic evidence) know what two pennants were flown below the American flag in CF during the Giants tenure in the old ballpark? I am ASSUMING it would be either flags from the two teams playing that day, else maybe the teams who were in 1st place in both leagues? I have been searching for a good image that may show the name(s) of the teams on the CF pennants .... but to no avail. Anyone?

I make this plea again, almost a year to the date I originally asked..............ANYONE?

The reason why I am asking is because I acquired a pennant last year that I am reasonably certain was used in The Polo Grounds & possibly/probably in CF, But I wanted to get feedback from everyone here before posting an image of it, as I didn't want to 'taint' anyone's memory. For the LIFE of me, I can not find a quality image (color or black & white) that CLEARLY shows what is written on those pennants.

I am also STILL looking for a dugout image that happens to show the door to the room next to the dugout open. Apparantly, that room served as a bathroom in the later years of The Polo Grounds and/or possibly storage. I have an artifact that apparantly come from the room next to the Giants dugout, but my attempts to photo match it have been impossible because I have YET to come across any photo with the door open. The closest photo was a recent shot of the demo of The Polo Grounds. The door IS open, but you really can't see what's inside very well. Besides, being the demo was in full operation, my item (a bathroom sink) may have already been removed by the time that photo was taken.

Pelt

02-02-2011, 11:11 AM

^ This 1940 pamphlet is a little clearer

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5294/5401333907_5be95d2907_o.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5139/5401933490_052af07d0e_o.jpg

They have Ebbets reversed.

Lpeters199

02-02-2011, 08:57 PM

http://store.tribunephotos.com/Items/aaj-644-ct?sck=58215059&caSKU=aaj-644-ct&caTitle=New%20York%20NY%20Aerial%20View%20Pre%2019 56%20-%20Chicago%20Tribune

http://store.tribunephotos.com/Items/aaj-637-ct?sck=58215059&caSKU=aaj-637-ct&caTitle=New%20York%20NY%20Aerial%20View%20Pre%2019 56%20-%20Chicago%20Tribune

Mary Ellen

02-03-2011, 05:11 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU9QqBOSBLQ

Nice video about Willie when he played for the NY Giants and the guy finding the plaque where home base use to be for the Polo Grounds

I enjoyed that video very much. Thank you for posting it.

metfan13

02-03-2011, 02:04 PM

Christy Mathewson pitching:

Looks like Tom Seaver's delivery.

Lpeters199

02-03-2011, 02:41 PM

Looks like Tom Seaver's delivery.

You should find this very interesting: http://keitholbermann.mlblogs.com/archives/2009/08/the_greatest_cooperstown_find.html

Mario Mendoza...HOF Lock

02-03-2011, 07:47 PM

1950 (#21 warming up is Jim Hearn). Probably a repost, but worth another look.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5099/5414419467_6e284c261b_o.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/69805768@N00/3028647772/

NY Giants Early 50's
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5133/5414419287_e253caf76b_z.jpg

Some B/W footage of theGiants-Packers at the Polo Grounds (http://retroflick.com/view/247/raf-sinks-tirpitz,-11221944-ca1944-newsreel/) from 1944 (starts around 6:20)

Paul W

02-03-2011, 07:49 PM

Looks like Tom Seaver's delivery.

add robin roberts to that list, his mechanics were almost identical to seaver.

majorleads

02-03-2011, 08:08 PM

Christy Mathewson pitching:
http://www.baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=94436&stc=1&d=1296637692

Great picture! What year is this? Also, what is the deal with that pitchers mound? Doesn't look elevated much and it looks like it would create a lot of crazy bounces with balls hit back through the middle. Love the third base coaches socks....real old school.

I also like how the third baseman is playing in (I guess) for the bunt but the first baseman is all the way back. Would be a nice time to try a drag bunt up the first base line...

Oh and why is the first baseman not in a set position? Interesting...

Paul W

02-03-2011, 08:15 PM

if you can find "the glory of their times" film by the late bud greenspan, there's a few seconds of rare film of matty warming up.

metfan13

02-03-2011, 08:34 PM

You should find this very interesting: http://keitholbermann.mlblogs.com/archives/2009/08/the_greatest_cooperstown_find.html

Excellent!

metfan13

02-03-2011, 08:37 PM

if you can find "the glory of their times" film by the late bud greenspan, there's a few seconds of rare film of matty warming up.

Olberman references that clip in the article. But that, and the oft seen clip of Walter Johnson seeminglt flipping the ball sidearm don't have the same affect as this photo where you can tell Mathewson is bringing it in the modern way.

Lpeters199

02-03-2011, 08:45 PM

Great picture! What year is this? Also, what is the deal with that pitchers mound? Doesn't look elevated much and it looks like it would create a lot of crazy bounces with balls hit back through the middle. Love the third base coaches socks....real old school.

I also like how the third baseman is playing in (I guess) for the bunt but the first baseman is all the way back. Would be a nice time to try a drag bunt up the first base line...

Oh and why is the first baseman not in a set position? Interesting...

This link has information: http://keitholbermann.mlblogs.com/archives/2009/08/the_greatest_cooperstown_find.html

EdTarbusz

02-03-2011, 08:48 PM

Great picture! What year is this? ..

Those are the uniforms that the Giants wore in the 1905 and 1911 World Series.

majorleads

02-03-2011, 09:34 PM

This link has information: http://keitholbermann.mlblogs.com/archives/2009/08/the_greatest_cooperstown_find.html

I thought we were finally rid of Keith Olberman??? :sigh:

Thanks for the info and for posting the picture. Olberman is still a d*ck though. :biggrin2:

majorleads

02-03-2011, 09:37 PM

Those are the uniforms that the Giants wore in the 1905 and 1911 World Series.

Thanks! Do you think it's likely 1905 because of that mound? Doesn't look elevated much at all.

Lpeters199

02-03-2011, 10:12 PM

Over the roof: http://vimeo.com/10763293

J.E.Fullerton

02-03-2011, 11:39 PM

Thanks! Do you think it's likely 1905 because of that mound? Doesn't look elevated much at all.

It's definitely after the 1911 Polo Grounds fire.

Lpeters199

02-04-2011, 04:19 AM

http://cgi.ebay.com/KEN-STRONG-1934-New-York-Giants-KICKS-FIELD-GOAL-Photo-/370481134414?pt=Vintage_Sports_Memorabilia&hash=item5642657b4e#ht_1201wt_936

http://cgi.ebay.com/LEROY-PARMELEE-Original-1935-Snapshot-Photo-GIANTS-/120678692691?pt=US_Baseball_Fan_Shop&hash=item1c1902b753#ht_3257wt_936

Lpeters199

02-04-2011, 01:39 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-1952-Sal-Maglie-Giants-Car-Wire-Photo-/220732336375?pt=Vintage_Sports_Memorabilia&hash=item3364ac28f7#ht_500wt_951

BSmile

02-05-2011, 05:47 AM

1957 New York Giants Team
The end of an era draws near....

Lpeters199

02-05-2011, 09:15 AM

Gary Dunaier

02-05-2011, 05:24 PM

Wonder how long it took to change the clubhouse facade from baseball mode (the cigarette ad) to football (cigarette ad and scoreboard). And if they did it for football, wonder why they didn't have a scoreboard in CF for baseball.

Lpeters199

02-05-2011, 07:39 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-1955-Sal-Maglie-Traded-Indians-Wire-Photo-/220732339755?pt=Vintage_Sports_Memorabilia&hash=item3364ac362b#ht_500wt_951

http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-1954-Dusty-Rhodes-Son-Polo-Gr-Wire-Photo-/330527393169?pt=Vintage_Sports_Memorabilia&hash=item4cf4f7c591#ht_720wt_936

Mario Mendoza...HOF Lock

02-05-2011, 11:21 PM

^ That section of wall looks like it was made out of paper mache. Another reason to love the old parks....what you saw was what you got. When things are too polished, the game actually LOSES it's luster. Alanis Morrisette could have used that one in her song. :cap:

Lpeters199

02-06-2011, 12:04 AM

http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?56604-The-Polo-Grounds&p=1847342#post1847342

Can that be padding in front of a wall so distant that it was cleared only three times?

Paul W

02-07-2011, 12:17 PM

Paul W

02-07-2011, 12:18 PM

what's w/glass?

Lpeters199

02-07-2011, 12:44 PM

what's w/glass?

Probably for the football press box up under the roof.

Lpeters199

02-07-2011, 03:50 PM

http://www.mearsonlineauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=23735&searchby=0&searchvalue=None&page=2&sortby=0&displayby=2&lotsperpage=100&category=3&seo=1940-New-York-Giants-%22The-Sporting-News-Collection-Archives%22-Original-Photo-(Sporting-News-Collectio

http://cgi.ebay.com/4x5-PHOTO-NEGATIVE-Copy-National-Baseball-Park-1948-/260732507665?pt=Art_Photo_Images&hash=item3cb4de5611#ht_2592wt_1073

tugger

02-08-2011, 10:39 PM

Robin and Sal bummed over rainout.

tugger

02-08-2011, 10:44 PM

Sal rocks the "Pants Optional" look.

(guess that 1st one belongs in Ebbets - sorry.)

tugger

02-08-2011, 10:55 PM

Sal: "Trust me - I'm a Barber."

Lpeters199

02-09-2011, 11:06 AM

http://cgi.ebay.com/POLO-GROUNDS-MANHATTAN-NEW-YORK-CITY-PHOTO-8x10-/180622504040?pt=Art_Photo_Images&hash=item2a0df0b068#ht_2323wt_1127

This shot has been posted before, but this is a larger size.

Paul W

02-09-2011, 11:16 PM

Sal: "Trust me - I'm a Barber."

that razor is safer than his close shave pitches

Lpeters199

02-09-2011, 11:19 PM

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=116190&searchby=0&searchvalue=None&page=0&sortby=0&displayby=2&lotsperpage=25&category=105&seo=Polo-Grounds/New-York-Postcards-Collection-(40-Different)

http://www.retrosnapshots.com/sports-photos/1916-cadets-at-army-navy-college-football-game-photo.html

Paul W

02-09-2011, 11:37 PM

Probably for the football press box up under the roof.

might be, except why would the glass panes be lugged all the way down to grade level from the roof?

if that is what they are for ('54), then why do pix of the rf roof in '52 and '57 show no trace of the box openings?
no seams or discolored panels in place of the glass during summer.
yet, a pix from '51 shows the glass? that is the earliest image that shows the box that i could find.
the catwalk that ran across the upper deck roof must be the access.

vintage

02-10-2011, 06:42 AM

might be, except why would the glass panes be lugged all the way down to grade level from the roof?

if that is what they are for ('54), then why do pix of the rf roof in '52 and '57 show no trace of the box openings?
no seams or discolored panels in place of the glass during summer.
yet, a pix from '51 shows the glass? that is the earliest image that shows the box that i could find.
the catwalk that ran across the upper deck roof must be the access.

Is it possible that the glass was only exposed during the football season/baseball overlap (Sept/Oct)? Maybe they covered or removed the glass during the baseball only months due to the possiblity of a foul ball/HR shattering the glass. Just a guess, it does seem odd that they are visible in some years and not others. As for the '57 photo, the Giants had already moved to Yankee Stadium for the 56 season so there wasn't a permenant football tennent there in 57, as far as I know. Not sure if there were any college games played there.

Mario Mendoza...HOF Lock

02-10-2011, 08:03 PM

This was possibly posted way back, but I don't remember seeing it

Artist Thom Ross created this trbibute to "the catch" in the Polo Grounds Apartment complex
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5100/5435353328_f9c5f06a40_o.jpg

Here is anarticle on it. (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/the_bonus/09/24/thom.ross/index.html)

alpineinc

02-11-2011, 07:16 AM

1957 New York Giants Team
The end of an era draws near....

Love the conscious effort to highlight the PG itself in the photo...

J.E.Fullerton

02-11-2011, 11:29 PM

if that is what they are for ('54), then why do pix of the rf roof in '52 and '57 show no trace of the box openings?
no seams or discolored panels in place of the glass during summer.

Actually, I think I do see some faint traces of a patched opening in the '57 photo. Maybe the others, too, but the image quality makes it hard to be sure. Any larger versions of those?

Lpeters199

02-12-2011, 03:29 AM

http://cgi.ebay.com/KODAK-SLIDE-NEW-YORK-CITY-SUBWAY-IRT-9th-AVENUE-1958-/110645478357?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19c2fc03d5#ht_500wt_951

Paul W

02-12-2011, 08:10 PM

thru the haze of time the siren song of the el echoes - ssssssrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeccccchhhhhhhh!

Lpeters199

02-14-2011, 04:49 AM

http://cgi.ebay.com/1952-NFL-New-York-Giants-Team-Photo-Auto-40-Sig-PSA-LOA-/300501083728?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45f742a650#ht_500wt_951

http://youngcocosmaldives.com/WLcUyNUmxW3vs/

http://cgi.ebay.com/1955-NEW-YORK-FOOTBALL-GIANTS-OFFICIAL-NFL-PROGRAM-/130302349806?pt=Vintage_Sports_Memorabilia&hash=item1e56a011ee#ht_548wt_702

mandrake

02-14-2011, 07:51 AM

http://cgi.ebay.com/1952-NFL-New-York-Giants-Team-Photo-Auto-40-Sig-PSA-LOA-/300501083728?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45f742a650#ht_500wt_951

Think of some of the names associated with the 1952 Giants:

Frank Gifford, Charlie Connerly, Tom Landry, Kyle Rote, and coach Steve Owen.

Two years later, Jim Lee Howell takes over and has assistants Vince Lombardi and Tom Landry. Not too shabby.

RichieA13

02-14-2011, 09:00 AM

Lpeters199

02-14-2011, 04:11 PM

http://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/36-color-slides-taken-sun-sept-8,-1957-at-the-pol-1-u-0aa7e9cfc8

Lpeters199

02-14-2011, 04:15 PM

More from the same group:

http://www.oldjudge.com/archive/200511/baseball/photographs/227/#a

Lpeters199

02-14-2011, 08:02 PM

http://www.oldjudge.com/archive/200611/baseball/photographs2/114/#a

http://www.huntauctions.com/LIVE/imageviewer.cfm?auction_num=24&lot_num=519&lot_qual=

http://www.huntauctions.com/LIVE/imageviewer_online.cfm?auction_num=37&lot_num=277&lot_qual=

http://www.huntauctions.com/LIVE/imageviewer_online.cfm?auction_num=37&lot_num=363&lot_qual=

http://www.huntauctions.com/LIVE/imageviewer_online.cfm?auction_num=25&lot_num=567&lot_qual=

Lpeters199

02-14-2011, 09:23 PM

http://www.huntauctions.com/LIVE/imageviewer_online.cfm?auction_num=2&lot_num=964&lot_qual=

http://www.oldpostcards.com/page116.html

Lpeters199

02-15-2011, 10:22 AM

http://www.oldpostcards.com/page116.html

Lpeters199

02-15-2011, 10:27 AM

More postcards: http://www.oldpostcards.com/page116.html

tugger

02-15-2011, 03:23 PM

What ever happened to this plan?

Chef Bill

02-16-2011, 06:59 AM

What ever happened to this plan?

It looks like the rotunda at Citi Field!

Lpeters199

02-17-2011, 07:37 AM

Another shot from the river. It's similar to others posted recently, but it's a different picture.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Orig-Slide-NYC-Polo-Grounds-Stadium-New-York-Giants-/400194740245?pt=Art_Photo_Images&hash=item5d2d772015#ht_1904wt_1102

JOVE23

02-17-2011, 10:15 PM

What ever happened to this plan?

Lard-O? Sounds delicious.