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CurseReversed04
01-26-2007, 08:33 AM
Just looking for a few opinons on this:

What do you think of the Red Sox retired number policy? The policy states that the player:

1. Must be a Hall of Famer
2. Must have played at least 10 seasons with the Red Sox
Here is the kicker, and the part that I feel is just ridiculous...
3.Must finish their career with the team.

Looking for everyones opinion.

Scott

Dalkowski110
01-26-2007, 09:44 AM
Let me guess...you want Roger Clemens' number retired, right? That said, I think number 3 is a tad silly.

SoxSon
01-26-2007, 09:53 AM
Just looking for a few opinons on this:

What do you think of the Red Sox retired number policy? The policy states that the player:

1. Must be a Hall of Famer
2. Must have played at least 10 seasons with the Red Sox
Here is the kicker, and the part that I feel is just ridiculous...
3.Must finish their career with the team.

Looking for everyones opinion.

Scott

My general response to this is that I think it should be extremely difficult to retire a number. Taking a look at a certain other organization, Ron Guidry is an example of what shouldn't happen when looking at numbers to retire, IMO.

That being said, I also think a player can have a value to a certain ballclub that might not be fully understood by other teams, so...:ughh

Mike D.
01-26-2007, 10:17 AM
Let me guess...you want Roger Clemens' number retired, right? That said, I think number 3 is a tad silly.

I agree #3 is silly, too...it keeps Clemens, Boggs, and Evans from ever getting their numbers retired (not that I think Evans will make the HOF, but still).

CurseReversed04
01-26-2007, 10:18 AM
Here is my problem. It is one thing to be selective when retiring numbers, it is another thing to make it next to impossible. Let me give you an example of why this bothers me so much. When Carlton Fisk was elected to the HOF, the Sox front office decided to cash in by retiring his number. One problem however...he did not finish his career with the Red Sox. Any Sox fan will remember the contract debacle that eventually sent him to the White Sox. How did the Sox get around this? They created a front office job for him so that he could "finish his baseball career" with the Red Sox. Now I am not saying that we should run out and put Calvin Shiraldi's number up with Williams and Yaz, but can we at least come up with something that is a little more attainable, and something that makes a little more sense.

CurseReversed04
01-26-2007, 10:19 AM
And by the way...I think that Evans should be in the HOF!

SoxSon
01-26-2007, 10:20 AM
I meant to agree in my last response that #3 on your list doesn't make a lot of sense. If a ballclub is manufacturing ways to make a fit, then there's a problem somewhere.

rwolfe09
01-26-2007, 10:30 AM
I think Clemens will end is career in a Boston uniform..in some way, shape or capacity. I just hope they have a little more integrity and can sign him to a 1 day contract or something, not create a phony job for him so he can retire like that. Go out in style, sign a 1 day contract before you hang 'em up. Do what Jerry Rice did..go sign back with the team that made you who you were and retire..it's the right thing to do and I hope Roger realizes that.

Mike D.
01-26-2007, 10:34 AM
I think Clemens will end is career in a Boston uniform..in some way, shape or capacity. I just hope they have a little more integrity and can sign him to a 1 day contract or something, not create a phony job for him so he can retire like that. Go out in style, sign a 1 day contract before you hang 'em up. Do what Jerry Rice did..go sign back with the team that made you who you were and retire..it's the right thing to do and I hope Roger realizes that.

You don't see this in baseball much (or to my knowledge, ever). Not sure if it's against the rules, or if just nobody ever does it. Or, am I wrong, and it has been done? Anyone know?

SoxSon
01-26-2007, 10:42 AM
You don't see this in baseball much (or to my knowledge, ever). Not sure if it's against the rules, or if just nobody ever does it. Or, am I wrong, and it has been done? Anyone know?


You might get a kick out of this, Mike:

http://sports.espn.go.com/minorlbb/news/story?id=2523029

JamesWest
01-26-2007, 10:45 AM
You don't see this in baseball much (or to my knowledge, ever). Not sure if it's against the rules, or if just nobody ever does it. Or, am I wrong, and it has been done? Anyone know?

This practice was fairly common back in the days when a player needed to have five seasons in to be eligible for a pension. Players who who were short would be signed as a coach and then activated to the roster to get the days they needed or they would be signed to a short term deal, get their time in and be released (or retire)..

Johnny Evers
01-26-2007, 12:07 PM
I agree that #3 is very limiting...but then again, not many numbers should be retired. Retiring a player's number means that that guy was the Red Sox for a number of years. Personally, as fantastic a pitcher and as great a Boston icon as Clemens was for those years with the Sox, I don't feel that he's as elite a Red Sox hero as Williams, Yaz, Fisk, etc.

EvanAparra
01-26-2007, 12:34 PM
What about Fisk, I thought he retired a White Sox?

I like that we dont just retire every Tom, Dick, and John that comes through here like our brothers in New York. They're going to flip their odometer soon.

Mike D.
01-26-2007, 12:46 PM
You might get a kick out of this, Mike:

http://sports.espn.go.com/minorlbb/news/story?id=2523029

Remember seeing that when it happened...good stuff. BTW, if anyone is ever in KC, hit the Negro League Museum...it's well worth it!

Mike D.
01-26-2007, 12:47 PM
This practice was fairly common back in the days when a player needed to have five seasons in to be eligible for a pension. Players who who were short would be signed as a coach and then activated to the roster to get the days they needed or they would be signed to a short term deal, get their time in and be released (or retire)..

Interesting...I wasn't aware of that. Do you know of anyone off-hand who did it? I know there used to be a lot of "player/coach" types back in the old days.

Johnny Evers
01-26-2007, 12:47 PM
What about Fisk, I thought he retired a White Sox?

..............


When Carlton Fisk was elected to the HOF, the Sox front office decided to cash in by retiring his number. One problem however...he did not finish his career with the Red Sox. Any Sox fan will remember the contract debacle that eventually sent him to the White Sox. How did the Sox get around this? They created a front office job for him so that he could "finish his baseball career" with the Red Sox.

SoxSon
01-26-2007, 12:58 PM
What about Fisk, I thought he retired a White Sox?


Fisk was retired both by Boston and Chicago, with the numbers 27 and 72, respectively. Of course, he played longer in Chicago, and he was retired there first.

EvanAparra
01-26-2007, 12:58 PM
..............

Ah ok, I guess I missed that. Thanks.

JamesWest
01-26-2007, 01:02 PM
Interesting...I wasn't aware of that. Do you know of anyone off-hand who did it? I know there used to be a lot of "player/coach" types back in the old days.

Looking at the 1970 Sporting News guide, there are two players listed as having done this: Taylor Phillips and Ken MacKenzie. Neither was listed as a player-coach.

ChrisLDuncan
01-26-2007, 01:49 PM
In defense of what my Yankees do, even though I do not think Mattingly nor Munson will make the hall their contributions to the team are significant, so their numbers deserve to be retired just like Jim Rice's and David Ortiz's when he retires (that's me saying I don't think Ortiz will make the hall (not that he doesn't desereve it)...too tough for a DH)

CurseReversed04
01-26-2007, 02:00 PM
As much as i hate to admit it, I agree with you Chris.... I think team contribution should come into play.

GotMelk?
01-26-2007, 03:38 PM
I think you have to go to the HOF with the teams Cap on to have their number retierd.

Johnny Evers
01-26-2007, 04:35 PM
Chris makes a good point. I think this should come down to the question "was this guy a Red Sox hero?" Williams was, Yaz was, and Ortiz is right now.

SoxSon
01-26-2007, 04:41 PM
Chris makes a good point. I think this should come down to the question "was this guy a Red Sox hero?" Williams was, Yaz was, and Ortiz is right now.


Gar! Why should a Yankee fan get credit for something I said back in post #3?! :grouchy :D

Just kidding. A player's contributions to a particular team should definitely be taken into consideration.

Sankhara-dukkha
01-26-2007, 05:25 PM
The way I like to think about the retired numbers is to make it completely unnavailable to anyone and only when someone is so deserving that you can't ignore it do you consider the possibility of retiring it.

Roger Clemens' number will one day be retired in Fenway.

Rules or no rules, they'll find a way. Wether it means giving him a front office job or do what they did with Jeff Nelson with the yankees (a minor league contract so he could retire a yankee) or if they actually pull a miracle and sign him for this year. I don't think they need to change the rules to get him in.

NYMets523
01-28-2007, 11:30 AM
They should definitely get rid of #3. They should also consider limiting the number of years in #2. It's impossible for a player to end their career with their team because of free agency. And playing there for 10 years is also very difficult because of free agency.