Wood sidelined by triceps strain [Archive]

rockin500

03-26-2007, 05:03 PM

Now I am starting to think that Woody isn't going to be able to pitch without injury ever again. Its official, Kerry is back in the same boat he's been in since 2004.

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070326&content_id=1859897&vkey=spt2007news&fext=.jsp&c_id=chc
annnnnnd in other news, water is still wet and beer will be served at wrigley field once again this year.

seems like this is just a rite of spring.

Lipsander

03-27-2007, 05:13 AM

annnnnnd in other news, water is still wet and beer will be served at wrigley field once again this year.

seems like this is just a rite of spring.

lol......isn't that the true.

Bob Sacamento

03-27-2007, 11:48 PM

Now I am starting to think that Woody isn't going to be able to pitch without injury ever again. Its official, Kerry is back in the same boat he's been in since 2004.No, not even, not unless you think the organization is lying about the triceps strain and that his injury is much worse. Personally, I don't think the team is lying here, there's no reason to do so; It's not like we're counting on Wood for success (his or our own). Instead this time around, he's just a pen arm a spot that many others we possess can occupy. When Wood comes around which right now looks to be mid April, we should be wondering who goes down Wuertz, Guzman, or a positional player.

Lipsander

03-28-2007, 06:05 AM

No, not even, not unless you think the organization is lying about the triceps strain and that his injury is much worse. Personally, I don't think the team is lying here, there's no reason to do so; It's not like we're counting on Wood for success (his or our own). Instead this time around, he's just a pen arm a spot that many others we possess can occupy. When Wood comes around which right now looks to be mid April, we should be wondering who goes down Wuertz, Guzman, or a positional player.

Nah, I don't think the organization is lying. I feel so bad for Wood. I hope we sit him out and let him get right. I know that he's such a competitor that its killing him. Especially since we have an upgraded team now.

vptpt

03-28-2007, 06:44 AM

Wow, I wish I could make that much money for doing nothing and have people feel sorry for me!

Just playing, I know what you're saying. It must be tough to have had so much potential and face so many setbacks. Baseball is probably about all he knows, as far as a career goes. None of us are getting any younger.

E.Banks#14

03-28-2007, 10:28 AM

When Wood comes around which right now looks to be mid April, we should be wondering who goes down Wuertz, Guzman, or a positional player.
Are they going with 12 pitchers (hence Guzman, not Pagan)?

Bob Sacamento

03-28-2007, 12:17 PM

Are they going with 12 pitchers (hence Guzman, not Pagan)?
Odds are highly yes that we start the season with 12 pitchers and 13 positional players:

Zambrano
Marquis
Lilly
Hill
Miller
Guzman
Cotts
Ohman
Wuertz
Eyre
Howry
Dempster
DL/AAA Wood & Prior

Barrett
Blanco

Lee
DeRosa
Izturis
Ramirez
Ward
Theriot
Cedeno

Murton
Soriano
Jones
Floyd

Scartissue

03-28-2007, 04:10 PM

Odds are highly yes that we start the season with 12 pitchers and 13 positional players:

Zambrano
Marquis
Lilly
Hill
Miller
Guzman
Cotts
Ohman
Wuertz
Eyre
Howry
Dempster
DL/AAA Wood & Prior

Barrett
Blanco

Lee
DeRosa
Izturis
Ramirez
Ward
Theriot
Cedeno

Murton
Soriano
Jones
Floyd

That looks right to me as far as predictions of what will happen go. If it were up to me though, I would probably drop Ward and bring up Pie now (and give Pie significant playing time at CF). Should have never picked up Floyd without getting rid of Jones.

Bob Sacamento

03-29-2007, 01:59 AM

That looks right to me as far as predictions of what will happen go. If it were up to me though, I would probably drop Ward and bring up Pie now (and give Pie significant playing time at CF). Should have never picked up Floyd without getting rid of Jones.
If Pie comes up now, then he needs to start nearly everyday. At his age, he's bound to have some slumps and he'll need to play through them. Something I don't think the organization wants him doing so much of on the MLB level despite that his glove in CF would be the best move for the team.

Well we're not going to drop Ward, not when just signed him a ~1 million contract plus an option year. Big D gives us a nice proven power lefty PH bat off the bench (in 2006, 21/60, 5 R, 5 2B, 5 HR, 17 RBI, .350/.438/.633/1.072). Defensively, he doesn't have a spot as he's around decent-poor at all positions, RF/LF/1B (his best at 1B). As for Floyd, I'm with you, he should have never been acquired with Jacque Jones still in town. But with no other bidders on Cliff, Hendry saw a chance to buy low, have an insurance policy, and not rely too heavily on the player to make an impact.

Scartissue

03-29-2007, 07:19 AM

If Pie comes up now, then he needs to start nearly everyday. At his age, he's bound to have some slumps and he'll need to play through them. Something I don't think the organization wants him doing so much of on the MLB level despite that his glove in CF would be the best move for the team.

Well we're not going to drop Ward, not when just signed him a ~1 million contract plus an option year. Big D gives us a nice proven power lefty PH bat off the bench (in 2006, 21/60, 5 R, 5 2B, 5 HR, 17 RBI, .350/.438/.633/1.072). Defensively, he doesn't have a spot as he's around decent-poor at all positions, RF/LF/1B (his best at 1B). As for Floyd, I'm with you, he should have never been acquired with Jacque Jones still in town. But with no other bidders on Cliff, Hendry saw a chance to buy low, have an insurance policy, and not rely too heavily on the player to make an impact.

I don't expect that we would drop Ward either--that's just who I would drop to make space if it were up to me. As far as slumps go, this is the year I think the Cub's lineup can absorb the slack. I wouldn't put Pie up if our lineup were like last year's, but this year's lineup looks loaded--Theriot/DeRosa should be an improvement, Soriano's an improvement, Floyd's bat is a slight improvement and Lee being back is huge. Despite Murton's slow spring, I expect he'll continue to progress. Not sure if Cedeno's spring is a mirage or if he finally "gets it". Izturis should do better than Cedeno did last year with the bat. I'm very optimistic about the lineup we will have this year, so that I don't think the pressure will be as bad for Pie to produce offensively if he were called up.

esmith

03-30-2007, 09:23 AM

RBi

03-30-2007, 09:30 AM

Seriously though only time will tell how bad wood's injury is...

First off welcome to the board! Glad to have you!

secondly, honestly how much time will it take to tell that Wood is without a doubt damaged goods?

How long has he been having issues? I just dont think the team needs to invest much more time in tryin to find out if he is going to be better...

I say:
Time has told.

esmith

03-30-2007, 09:36 AM

Thanks for the welcome.

What happen in the past isn't always a prediction of the future. Look at the season when wood has the surgery and they left him in the pin to finish the season. He had great numbers, he threw hard(97-98 if I remember right) and he didn't get hurt until they tried to bring him back to starting the next spring.

This season may end up the same as all the rest but I don't think we can count out wood before it starts. Maybe they are just taking things slow with him just because he of his history.

E.Banks#14

03-30-2007, 09:40 AM

And prior is only in iowa because he had such a poor spring as soon as he gets his control over his stuff back he will be back in chicago doing his thing.
Don't count on it. As we've already seen, Lou is not treating Mark special (and you can tell it's pissing Mark off... anyone see his 'press conference' yesterday?). The rotation we have now is, in Lou's mind, the best 5 starters we've got. If Mark becomes one of the best 5 starters, then he may come back up to the bigs.

Rookie1914

03-30-2007, 11:41 AM

I say:
Time has told.

I concur! I am afraid mentally if nothing else, his time is up in Chicago. Myself, I am tired of it. Let's move on...

Rookie1914

03-30-2007, 11:43 AM

you guys all are overlooking the best cubs pitcher is going to be Samardizija.

Seriously though only time will tell how bad wood's injury is but I don't think its anything. And prior is only in iowa because he had such a poor spring as soon as he gets his control over his stuff back he will be back in chicago doing his thing.

"Is going to be" is big words...Zambrano is no slouch my friend. I hope one day he does become our best, then times will be good if we still have people like Hill and Zambrano around...

esmith

03-30-2007, 11:44 AM

Yeah, but if prior and wood have the "competitive spirit" that they people say then lou's no special treatment plan should bring out the best in either of them.

Look maybe prior won't get his stuff back, but I think that he will. Up until this spring his control has never been a problem it was always staying healthy. I think that once he get back in shape he will do fine, as long as he stays healthy.

esmith

03-30-2007, 11:48 AM

I agree totally. That was kind of a joke, but I really, really want to see him in the bigs (or at least iowa, I live in iowa :) ) as soon as possible. I think he will be an exciting player to watch. As far as Z goes.. he by no means is any slouch and if he controls his walks this year which is very possible, he could probably be a serious cy young candidate.

it should be an exciting year for cubs fans.

"Is going to be" is big words...Zambrano is no slouch my friend. I hope one day he does become our best, then times will be good if we still have people like Hill and Zambrano around...

Lipsander

03-30-2007, 11:56 AM

Don't count on it. As we've already seen, Lou is not treating Mark special (and you can tell it's pissing Mark off... anyone see his 'press conference' yesterday?). The rotation we have now is, in Lou's mind, the best 5 starters we've got. If Mark becomes one of the best 5 starters, then he may come back up to the bigs.

In some aspect, I think that's the way it should be. No one should be treated any different than anyone else.

esmith

03-30-2007, 11:58 AM

I agree. Why wouldn't you put forth your best five?

In some aspect, I think that's the way it should be. No one should be treated any different than anyone else.

E.Banks#14

03-30-2007, 12:07 PM

I agree. Why wouldn't you put forth your best five?
I'm with Lou on that as well, in your first post it just seemed as if you we're expecting Mark to get a "Get out of AAA free card," and have a rotation spot handed back to him after a few minor league starts.

esmith

03-30-2007, 12:17 PM

I dont think he will get a free pass I just think that he will get he control and speed back and once he does that he will be back with the cubs and rightfully so. I don't think he will be brought back up unless he is ready. Maybe Im too optimistic but I just think that he will be ready maybe not for a couple months but I think he will get there.

Scartissue

03-30-2007, 12:32 PM

Things aren't that simple though. You can't decide entirely on the results of spring training. If Derek Lee hit a buck-fifty in spring, would we then really take him off the roster? I think Pujols is actually batting around .260 in spring, but no one's going to question his starting spot. If you decided purely on the results of what you see in spring, then Pie and Cherry would be on the roster. Point is, reputation can and should mean something.

I'm not opposed to sending Prior down to AAA, but I'm just saying it shouldn't be based entirely on the box scores, but rather it should be a combination of the poor results and because of something else, such as there's something wrong his mechanics or his health.

E.Banks#14

03-30-2007, 01:19 PM

I'm not opposed to sending Prior down to AAA, but I'm just saying it shouldn't be based entirely on the box scores, but rather it should be a combination of the poor results and because of something else, such as there's something wrong his mechanics or his health.
Pujols has proven he's worthy of a starting spot in the last few years. Prior, on the other hand, has done nothing to show that he deserves a spot outright. He had as much of a chance as Wade Miller, Neal Cotts, and Angel Guzman at that 5th spot when spring training started. Prior got outpitched. Miller got the spot.

esmith

03-30-2007, 01:19 PM

You've got a point but I do think that AAA is the right place for Prior to start. Just keep our fingers crossed and hope he gets back in to form in a hurry.

Scartissue

03-30-2007, 01:39 PM

Pujols has proven he's worthy of a starting spot in the last few years. Prior, on the other hand, has done nothing to show that he deserves a spot outright. He had as much of a chance as Wade Miller, Neal Cotts, and Angel Guzman at that 5th spot when spring training started. Prior got outpitched. Miller got the spot.

I'm not saying Prior is in the same league as Pujols, I just mean that you have to factor in experienced players' past accomplishments. I mention Pujols because he is a player that has obvious reputation that you cannot overlook no matter what kind of spring he has. However, I would not say Prior "has done nothing" in the past. Over 650+ career innnings, which equates to 3 very full years, his ERA is 3.51. It may not be a long time, but it's long enough in my view to demonstrate Prior's for real and not a flash in the pan. His only "bad" year statistically is last year.

That said, I think AAA may be the right move for Prior. However, that's because of what I'm hearing about the loss in his fastball and because I hear from some observers that his mechanics are off. I wouldn't do it just because Miller did better statistically than Prior in spring training.

E.Banks#14

03-30-2007, 02:37 PM

That said, I think AAA may be the right move for Prior. However, that's because of what I'm hearing about the loss in his fastball and because I hear from some observers that his mechanics are off. I wouldn't do it just because Miller did better statistically than Prior in spring training.
I didn't reference any stats. Wade Miller outpitched Mark Prior. Had better stuff. Had better location. Had better control. Maybe it's his mechanics, or maybe it's his health, but he plain and simple didn't pitch better than Wade Miller.

For those that are looking for something good out of this news, check out who's going to be Mark Prior's pitching coach in Iowa... Mike Harkey.

Harkey was 5th in ROY voting in 1990 with the Cubs after going 12-6 with a 3.26 ERA. Then he had arm trouble (baseball-reference (http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Mike_Harkey)calls it a "weak shoulder," a term that's been thrown around with Prior), and his career ended after just 6 legitimate seasons. I feel that a big part of Prior's problem is mental. Maybe someone like Harkey, who has been down a similar path, can change Mark. If not, then Prior may soon have his own page in the baseball-reference bullpen that starts with, "Mark Prior was a well-regarded pitcher with a weak shoulder."

Scartissue

03-30-2007, 02:47 PM

Had better stuff. Had better location. Had better control. Maybe it's his mechanics, or maybe it's his health, but he plain and simple didn't pitch better than Wade Miller.

And those would be legitimate reasons--I didn't know your reasoning for preferring Miller.

esmith

03-31-2007, 01:44 PM

And those would be legitimate reasons--I didn't know your reasoning for preferring Miller.

Im with Banks on this one. You cant possibly think that prior is ready to start the season after the spring he had. Its not stats that bother me about his spring preformance its the fact that he couldn't get the ball to do what he wanted it to do and it showed. Iowa is the right place for him to start and, as I said before, hopefully it won't be long before he can control his pitches again be back with the big cubs.