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The Dude
03-20-2007, 04:46 PM
Ryne Sandberg (1982-1997)
Lee Smith (1980-1987)
Sammy Sosa (1992-2004)
Fergie Jenkins (1966-1973, 1982-1983)
Billy Williams (1959-1974)
Ernie Banks (1953-1971)
Gabby Hartnett (1922-1940)
Frank Chance (1898-1912)
Mordecai Brown (1904-1912)

-Kyle-
03-20-2007, 04:52 PM
Whether he be the best Cubbie or not, Bank is the face of the Franchise.

Windy City Fan
03-20-2007, 04:54 PM
Ernie is a slam dunk here. The guy is named Mr. Cub for crying out loud!

Seriously, he's a career Cub who is still closely identified with the team today. His cheerful, optimistic demeanor makes him a perfect ambassador for Cubdom.

If I had to pick a runner up, it would be a guy you didn't list. Ron Santo. He's basically a career Cub (one partial season on the southside) with a great career. And he bleeds Cub blue, and like Banks is still closely associated with the team in a very visible manner.

Westlake
03-20-2007, 04:56 PM
When I think of the Chicago Cubs, I think of Ryne Sandberg, so I voted for him.

vtbub
03-20-2007, 05:03 PM
Let's play two.

2Chance
03-20-2007, 05:23 PM
How can it be anybody but....?

hellborn
03-20-2007, 05:53 PM
I liked Billy Williams better when I was a kid, but Banks = Cubs.
I'd probably pick Charlie Grimm for #2.

Minstrel
03-20-2007, 05:54 PM
I also picture Banks when I think of the Cubs, despite not having been around to see him play. That's how ingrained Banks has become to the Cubs' image.


Answer: Jerry Reinsdorf, Micheal McCaskey, Bill Wirtz, and the Tribune Company.

Question: Who are the worst collection of sports owners ever to be in the same city?

Hasn't Reinsdorf produced 7 championships for Chicago (Bulls six times and White Sox once)? That's a pretty nice bumper crop.

Sorry for the OT. ;)

Windy City Fan
03-20-2007, 06:04 PM
Hehe, haven't updated that in a while, but I'm still no Reinsdorf fan. He let Jordan, Pippen, and Jackson walk away because he thought Jerry Krause was more valuable. That worked out well. :ughh

And the Sox won because Kenny Williams is a fine GM, who managed to put together a winner even though Reinsdorf wouldn't and still won't open up his considerable wallet to let the Sox payroll go to the levels of other major market teams. And I still remember the White Flag trade, a cowardly "financially responsible" move that gutted a team in the middle of a playoff run.

Minstrel
03-20-2007, 06:10 PM
Hehe, haven't updated that in a while, but I'm still no Reinsdorf fan. He let Jordan, Pippen, and Jackson walk away because he thought Jerry Krause was more valuable. That worked out well. :ughh

And the Sox won because Kenny Williams is a fine GM, who managed to put together a winner even though Reinsdorf wouldn't and still won't open up his considerable wallet to let the Sox payroll go to the levels of other major market teams. And I still remember the White Flag trade, a cowardly "financially responsible" move that gutted a team in the middle of a playoff run.

Well, it's always the GMs and players who accomplish the feats, but Reinsdorf deserves credit for paying Jordan/Pippen/Rodman so much ($40 million a season just for Jordan those last three years!), installing Phil Jackson and also in installing Kenny Williams, who was no slam-dunk GM choice.

Anyway, I shouldn't turn this into an extended debate on a baseball forum. I've just always been surprised how little credit Reinsdorf gets for the remarkable success he's had compared to most owners.

CTaka
03-20-2007, 06:23 PM
I'd say that Brown was a better player than Banks, even though I don't like to compare pitchers and position players. But when I think face of the Cubs, I think of Mr. Cub even if he wasn't the greatest player in Cubs history.

Windy City Fan
03-20-2007, 06:30 PM
I just have to reply to this, then I'll leave it be.

Krause was simply the luckiest GM in the history of the planet. He came in when Jordan was already there. In his entire career, Krause made 3 good draft picks - Scottie Pippen, Horace Grant, and Elton Brand. And he traded Brand for a draft pick that became Tyson Chandler!!!!!!!! Pippen and Grant were both relatively obscure picks that panned out, and even they I think benefited greatly from spending most of their careers with Jordan. Krause loved making obscure picks, but these were the only two to ever pan out for him. Krause's other big move was getting Rodman for a ziplock bag full of belly button lint, otherwise known as Will Perdue. Krause was just lucky that Rodman was crazy enough to scare every other team off and make the Spurs desperate to dump him for anything at the precise moment Jordan comes out of retirement and the team just needs a power forward to compete.

The Bulls were never a deep team, just look at all the Bulls players that signed big contracts to play elsewhere when the team was broken up. They all flopped. Pippen, Kerr, Longley, Buchler, Rodman ...

When the choice is the greatest player in the league (and in history if you ask me) or a half assed GM, it ain't much of a choice in my mind. You stick with MJ and tell Krause not to let the door hit him in his ample backside on the way out. But Jerry had other ideas and those have worked out so well for us .....

Kenny Williams was a good pick for GM. I'll give him credit for that, but he's also tying Williams' hands by being a cheapskate and not opening up the wallet. The Sox have a legitimate championship caliber team, and their making at best lateral moves to save money. They've pretty much written off signing Burhele and Crede next offseason, so I wouldn't be shocked to see a second White Flag trade this year. After all, its more financially responsible to trade your star players for cheap prospects than let them walk in the offseason and get no compensation.

ChrisLDuncan
03-20-2007, 06:59 PM
I always think of Steve Bartman.

Bench 5
03-20-2007, 10:15 PM
I always think of Steve Bartman.


I prefer to think of Marla Collins as the face of the Cubs. :)

Minstrel
03-20-2007, 10:20 PM
Pippen and Grant were both relatively obscure picks that panned out, and even they I think benefited greatly from spending most of their careers with Jordan.

Not at all fair, especially regarding Pippen, but I'll PM you about it so as to end this in the thread. ;)

bluezebra
03-20-2007, 11:25 PM
I liked Billy Williams better when I was a kid, but Banks = Cubs.
I'd probably pick Charlie Grimm for #2.

"Jolly Cholly" Grimm. The "World's Greatest Left-Handed Banjo Player".

Bob

KCGHOST
03-21-2007, 06:06 AM
Has to be Mr. Cub.

hellborn
03-21-2007, 06:12 AM
I prefer to think of Marla Collins as the face of the Cubs. :)
She had a face?
Never noticed it...
:p

Colorado Express
03-22-2007, 11:24 AM
To me, it's Sandberg, but I can certainly understand how someone could vote for Banks or Sosa.

Honus Wagner Rules
03-22-2007, 01:28 PM
what, no Adrian Constantine Anson? ;)

Yankwood
03-22-2007, 07:30 PM
Holy Cow!!! Gotta go with Harry Caray.

ChrisLDuncan
03-22-2007, 07:50 PM
I prefer to think of Marla Collins as the face of the Cubs. :)


When I think of her, let's just say I don't think of baseball.

Richmond Hill Phoenix
03-22-2007, 07:54 PM
I never saw Banks play, and when I think Cubs I think Sosa. So that's who I voted for.

iPod
03-22-2007, 09:57 PM
How could "Mr. Cub" and "the face of the Cubs" be different people? Gotta be Banks.

Westlake
03-22-2007, 10:00 PM
I would like to change my vote to Nomar Garciaparra.

Bothrops Atrox
03-22-2007, 11:10 PM
I voted "other" since the billy goat wasn't a voting option.:)

Minstrel
03-22-2007, 11:27 PM
Should have been Greg Maddux.

iPod
03-23-2007, 01:58 PM
:noidea I'm guessing that's a joke, but I don't really get it.

ChrisLDuncan
03-23-2007, 02:00 PM
I voted "other" since the billy goat wasn't a voting option.:)



Me too, neither was Steve Bartman.

KHenry14
03-23-2007, 02:08 PM
this will probably be one of the easiest one of these to answer...it has to be Ernie Banks.

I know a lot of Cub fans, and this has come up in coversation, and they almost all say Banks...with maybe one Ryno vote.

Minstrel
03-23-2007, 02:24 PM
:noidea I'm guessing that's a joke, but I don't really get it.

Not a joke, just a comment on what a bad mistake the Cubs made in letting a young Maddux depart to Atlanta. Especially when Maddux liked it in Chicago, so it's not like he was determined to leave.

Bothrops Atrox
03-23-2007, 02:55 PM
Me too, neither was Steve Bartman.

Yeah, and technicaly since few have "seen" Kerry Wood or Mark Prior's physicians, I guess they can't be the "face of the franchise." Just the hardest working and most underpaid.

milladrive
03-23-2007, 04:08 PM
Many great players, but the "face" of the Cubbies has to be the Bankster.

ElHalo
03-23-2007, 04:10 PM
Sorry I missed this thread....

How can it be anybody but Cap Anson?

milladrive
03-23-2007, 04:31 PM
How can it be anybody but Cap Anson?

Amazing you said that just after I'd placed my vote. Honestly, I thought of him and was relatively surprised that he wasn't at least an option. I personally feel, however, that he's not "recognizable" enough for the intentions of the poll (and is perhaps why he was overlooked).

AstrosFan
03-23-2007, 04:45 PM
Sorry I missed this thread....

How can it be anybody but Cap Anson?

To me, face of the franchise means, who do people think of when that franchise is mentioned? I'm 100% certain that far more people would think of Banks than Anson, or for that matter, any other Cub.

milladrive
03-23-2007, 05:10 PM
To me, face of the franchise means, who do people think of when that franchise is mentioned? I'm 100% certain that far more people would think of Banks than Anson, or for that matter, any other Cub.

I feel compelled to disagree here. ...at least in part.

My thoughts are that "Face of the Franchise" would mean the most recognizable player a team has ever had (an equation that combines the fame gained from playing prowess with facial distinction). I do believe that "who people think of" is part of the formula, but I feel it's not the whole equation.

Iron Jaw
03-23-2007, 05:25 PM
How about Dick Selma? In 1969, he was know as the "Cheerleader" for the Bleacher Bums. :D

Just kidding. Even though Billy Williams and Ron Santo were my favorite Cubs, Mr. Cub, Ernie Banks earned his wings as the face of the Cubs. Of course, I saw Ernie play. A shortstop at the beginning of his career - and a shortstop with tremendous HR power.....which, in Banks' time, was pretty much unheard of. Plus, Banks was one of baseball's nicest men, from what I've heard.

Old Sweater
03-23-2007, 05:41 PM
When I think of the Chicago Cubs, I think of Ryne Sandberg, so I voted for him.



The question asked "Who is the Face of the Cubs" not who you thought of.


You just answered that way to avoid a shutout in this poll.


I think the player dubbed Mr. Cub is a pretty obvious answer. Everybody has their own opinion though and is entitled to it.

Westlake
03-23-2007, 05:49 PM
The question asked "Who is the Face of the Cubs" not who you thought of.


You just answered that way to avoid a shutout in this poll.


I think the player dubbed Mr. Cub is a pretty obvious answer. Everybody has their own opinion though and is entitled to it.

You're classy.

Old Sweater
03-23-2007, 05:58 PM
You're classy.



Thank You.

So are you.

Minstrel
03-23-2007, 06:01 PM
The question asked "Who is the Face of the Cubs" not who you thought of.

Who "the face of the franchise" is is the player a person associates most with the franchise. There's no factual answer.

While I, personally, think it's Banks, it's not because he's "Mr. Cub." He was dubbed that back in the 60s...things can change.

Old Sweater
03-23-2007, 06:32 PM
Who "the face of the franchise" is is the player a person associates most with the franchise. There's no factual answer.

While I, personally, think it's Banks, it's not because he's "Mr. Cub." He was dubbed that back in the 60s...things can change.


Yeah, I agree with you 100%. Things change and you should be able to vote based on your own opinion of a poll without being called, a rigger, a cheat and a liar.

ElHalo
03-25-2007, 12:20 PM
To me, face of the franchise means, who do people think of when that franchise is mentioned? I'm 100% certain that far more people would think of Banks than Anson, or for that matter, any other Cub.

To be honest with you, other than his stats, I know nothing about Ernie Banks. I don't know what people's opinions of the guy were when he was playing (although I know that he was held in high regard by Cubs fans, though I'm not quite sure why), I don't know anything about his personality or his intangibles... heck, I don't even have the slightest clue what the guy looks like (although for some reason I kind of picture him looking like Jim Thome). But Cap Anson was by FAR the most recognizable player of the early days of baseball, ahead of every single other player on every single other team, and was easily the most famous person baseball produced until Cobb and Ruth came along. Most baseball fans have probably never heard of either Ernie Banks or Cap Anson, so that's not really much of an argument, but in their respective times, Anson was FAR more well known and associated with the franchise.

The Dude
03-25-2007, 01:42 PM
I was going to put Anson on the poll, but It slipped my mind.

However, when I think of Anson, I don't think of the Cubs. I think of early baseball. It's like the ruth factor. Too big to just be the face of one team.

AstrosFan
03-25-2007, 03:41 PM
I was going to put Anson on the poll, but It slipped my mind.

However, when I think of Anson, I don't think of the Cubs. I think of early baseball. It's like the ruth factor. Too big to just be the face of one team.

I'm on the same page here. I think the average baseball fan couldn't tell you which team Anson played for. He was a huge star, as ElHalo pointed out, and perhaps he was more associated in his day with the Cubs than Banks. But I think Banks when I think of the Cubs, so that's my vote. Regardless, it's a shame Anson wasn't on the poll.

hellborn
03-26-2007, 07:44 AM
I'm on the same page here. I think the average baseball fan couldn't tell you which team Anson played for. He was a huge star, as ElHalo pointed out, and perhaps he was more associated in his day with the Cubs than Banks. But I think Banks when I think of the Cubs, so that's my vote. Regardless, it's a shame Anson wasn't on the poll.
Anson was definitely a more dominant figure in his time than Banks was in his, and was also a player/manager, but wasn't the team called the Colts back then? Would the name change make him ineligible?

AstrosFan
03-26-2007, 11:33 AM
Anson played for Chicago from 1876-97. During that time, they were called the White Stockings from 1876-89, and the Colts from 1890-97. Still, I don't think that should make him ineligible. It is, after all, face of the franchise, and regardless of the team name, it's still the same franchise.

ElHalo
03-26-2007, 03:54 PM
Anson played for Chicago from 1876-97. During that time, they were called the White Stockings from 1876-89, and the Colts from 1890-97. Still, I don't think that should make him ineligible. It is, after all, face of the franchise, and regardless of the team name, it's still the same franchise.

I think you could make a pretty good argument for Nap Lajoie as the face of the Indians, even though they were called something else while he was playing there... what was that team name again?

Oh yeah, the Cleveland Naps.

Minstrel
03-26-2007, 04:06 PM
Anson played for Chicago from 1876-97. During that time, they were called the White Stockings from 1876-89, and the Colts from 1890-97. Still, I don't think that should make him ineligible. It is, after all, face of the franchise, and regardless of the team name, it's still the same franchise.

It doesn't make him ineligible, but it hurts him...when most baseball fans think "Cubs," Anson is probably not someone who registers, because he never was a "Cub."

Honus Wagner Rules
03-26-2007, 04:09 PM
Sorry I missed this thread....

How can it be anybody but Cap Anson?
I beat you to it ElHalo.

Honus Wagner Rules
03-26-2007, 04:14 PM
To be honest with you, other than his stats, I know nothing about Ernie Banks. I don't know what people's opinions of the guy were when he was playing (although I know that he was held in high regard by Cubs fans, though I'm not quite sure why), I don't know anything about his personality or his intangibles... heck, I don't even have the slightest clue what the guy looks like (although for some reason I kind of picture him looking like Jim Thome). But Cap Anson was by FAR the most recognizable player of the early days of baseball, ahead of every single other player on every single other team, and was easily the most famous person baseball produced until Cobb and Ruth came along. Most baseball fans have probably never heard of either Ernie Banks or Cap Anson, so that's not really much of an argument, but in their respective times, Anson was FAR more well known and associated with the franchise.
Do you intentionally not read or research about certain parts of baseball history? You think that Ernie Banks looks like Jim Thome? I'm not sure you are being serious but you do realize Banks is African-American? Where you aware of that?

ElHalo
03-26-2007, 04:26 PM
Do you intentionally not read or research about certain parts of baseball history?

Almost all of the baseball books I've read were published between WWII and the late 1960's; I read most of them growing up as a kid in the '80's, and that's what they had in libraries at the time. As a kid watching baseball in the '80's, I was struck by the fact that none of the players were anywhere near as impressive as the guys from the 1900's-1930's I read about constantly, so I just assumed that the golden days of baseball were behind it, and this was as good as it was going to get. Then Frank Thomas and Griffey Jr. and Albert Belle came along and showed me that baseball wasn't dead, it was just sleeping. A quick look at the stat books, and the contemporaneous eyewitness accounts, was enough to show me that all of baseball, both offense and defense, were sleeping pretty much from 1969 to 1990. So I've been careful to pretty much dismiss everything that happened in that time period.

As a side note, this has also led to some... gaps... in my knowledge of players who hadn't yet become famous by the time the books I read as a kid were printed in the '60's, and who were out of baseball, or close to it, by the time I became a baseball fan as a kid in the '80's, and who had (at least superficially) unremarkable stats. Hence the fact that, before coming to BBF, I'd never heard of guys like Joe Morgan or Jimmy Wynn. If all you're doing is taking a glance through a stat sheet, guys like that don't pop out and grab you as noteworthy (seriously, Joe Morgan's SABR stats look great, but without SABR thinking, just looking at a stat sheet with an eye on BA, R, SB, and H, there's little to seperate him from, say, Bert Campaneris, and little to make you pause on him for more than a moment).


You think that Ernie Banks looks like Jim Thome? I'm not sure you are being serious but you do realize Banks is African-American? Where you aware of that?

Actually, I wasn't (I suppose none of the books I've read had a picture of him in them). Not that it matters one way or the other. I pictured him as looking like Jim Thome because I've always thought of him as the same kind of slow, plodding, HR-or-nothing hitter.

Minstrel
03-26-2007, 04:35 PM
Actually, I wasn't (I suppose none of the books I've read had a picture of him in them). Not that it matters one way or the other. I pictured him as looking like Jim Thome because I've always thought of him as the same kind of slow, plodding, HR-or-nothing hitter.

Banks played shortstop for a significant portion of his career.

http://images.encarta.msn.com/xrefmedia/sharemed/targets/images/pho/t054/T054584A.jpg

http://artfiles.art.com/images/-/Ernie-Banks---Batting-Stance-Photograph-C11812911.jpeg

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/ap/francxs10307260142.widec.jpg