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Yankeebiscuitfan
06-16-2007, 01:45 PM
I saw this article on Yankees.com:

http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070616&content_id=2029920&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy

What do you think about it?

sanket
06-16-2007, 01:50 PM
I don't like it. I say just put him on the bench and have him pinch hit for Nieves late in the game. I'd rather have a strong defense than a strong offense any day. Plus, we have so many weapons on offense we don't NEED Posada in the line up.

Yankeebiscuitfan
06-16-2007, 01:53 PM
I don't like it. I say just put him on the bench and have him pinch hit for Nieves late in the game. I'd rather have a strong defense than a strong offense any day. Plus, we have so many weapons on offense we don't NEED Posada in the line up.

That's exactly what I thought. You'll never know how this pans out, but I'd rather play Phelps or Cairo at first.

Mariano_Rivera
06-16-2007, 02:01 PM
I`d rather havr Damon play first to be honest

Westlake
06-16-2007, 02:09 PM
I don't like it. I say just put him on the bench and have him pinch hit for Nieves late in the game. I'd rather have a strong defense than a strong offense any day. Plus, we have so many weapons on offense we don't NEED Posada in the line up.

Posada: .349/.407/.558

Yeah, put him on the bench. :crazy

Yankeebiscuitfan
06-16-2007, 02:36 PM
I`d rather havr Damon play first to be honest

No thanks. Just keep it the way as it is. Posada/catcher, Damon/DH, Phelps or Cairo/1B.

Mariano_Rivera
06-16-2007, 03:13 PM
No thanks. Just keep it the way as it is. Posada/catcher, Damon/DH, Phelps or Cairo/1B.

Yeah, but with no DH wouldn't you rather keep Melky in the lineup than Nieves?

TonyStarks
06-16-2007, 05:20 PM
Why in the world would you put Jorge @ 1st now?

That means that you'd be putting Nieves bat into the lineup...this guy couldn't get a hit if Dice K was throwing basketballs from the windup.

monkey333
06-16-2007, 09:19 PM
I don't like it. I say just put him on the bench and have him pinch hit for Nieves late in the game. I'd rather have a strong defense than a strong offense any day. Plus, we have so many weapons on offense we don't NEED Posada in the line up.
Wow, did I just read this?

I'm not opposed to Po at first in the future but this season it wouldn't benefit the team. Once there's a young stud catcher(Cervelli, hopefully) and if the first base void still isn't filled with a young bat, Po could be a very servicable firstbaseman/ back-up catcher.

TonyStarks
06-16-2007, 09:29 PM
I don't like it. I say just put him on the bench and have him pinch hit for Nieves late in the game. I'd rather have a strong defense than a strong offense any day. Plus, we have so many weapons on offense we don't NEED Posada in the line up.

This had to be a joke. :confused: Right?

Why would you purposely take out one of your best bats...and the guy leading his league in AVG for a guy who's not even hitting his own weight?
Ain't even at the Mendoza line, I believe.

This had to be a joke. :rofl:

Mattingly
06-16-2007, 09:32 PM
Two more Interleague starts in NL parks (vs Rockies and Giants) on Moose's schedule, soooooo ... does anyone know how well Posada's defense is at 1B? Is he training with Donnie Baseball?

Wouldn't have been an issue had Moose and Posada clicked recently, but nothing's perfect in baseball, as in life.

Posada May Start at First Base on Interleague Trip (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/17/sports/baseball/17pins.html?_r=1&ref=baseball&oref=slogin)

Mike Mussina’s spot in the rotation comes up twice on the Yankees’ trip to National League parks at Colorado and San Francisco. That presents Manager Joe Torre with a problem.

Torre has made the light-hitting Wil Nieves (.122 batting average) the personal catcher for Mussina. But Jorge Posada, the regular catcher, is batting .347. With no designated hitter allowed, how could Torre get Posada’s bat into the lineup?

The answer may be to use Posada as the first baseman. Posada took grounders at first during batting practice yesterday and may start there when Mussina is scheduled to pitch, Tuesday in Colorado and Sunday in San Francisco.

Posada has played 17 career games at first base, including a three-inning appearance last June 4 at Baltimore. Before that, Posada had not played at first base since 2001.

“When you’ve been behind the plate for so long, things come instinctively,” Posada said. “When you’re at first base, you have to think about where you have to be. Instincts don’t play a role here. It’s not going to come easy.”

Posada sounded skeptical of the idea, which he learned about two days ago. He said that the Yankees would evaluate how he did in practice.

Mattingly
06-16-2007, 09:35 PM
This had to be a joke. :confused: Right?

Why would you purposely take out one of your best bats...and the guy leading his league in AVG for a guy who's not even hitting his own weight?
Ain't even at the Mendoza line, I believe.

This had to be a joke. :rofl:
I'd guess that either that was a joke or, since Posada only DHs in AL parks when Moose pitches, that 1B or late-inning offensive replacement may be an option when Moose pitches. Given that Moose goes no more than 7 innings, it could make sense.

For the NL parks, please see my last post above.

TonyStarks
06-16-2007, 09:37 PM
I'd guess that either that was a joke or, since Posada only DHs in AL parks when Moose pitches, that 1B or late-inning offensive replacement may be an option when Moose pitches. Given that Moose goes no more than 7 innings, it could make sense.

For the NL parks, please see my last post above.

Man, I don't like it.

Jorge could get hurt at 1B easier than @ C.
Don't we all remember about the debacle with Mike Piazza a few years back?

Put Nieves on the damn bench.
Let him be a late inning replacement if need be.

Mattingly
06-16-2007, 09:56 PM
Man, I don't like it.

Jorge could get hurt at 1B easier than @ C.
Don't we all remember about the debacle with Mike Piazza a few years back?

Put Nieves on the damn bench.
Let him be a late inning replacement if need be.
How could Posada get hurt at 1B easier than catching? I remember once around 2003, he'd squatted for an entire 16-inning game. How that is humanly possible is beyond me.

You mean hurt by a line ball? By being spiked at 1B?

For Piazza, you mean when he was asked by Steve Phillips to go to 1B, but he'd said he didn't want to go? If so, Piazza impressed me as being more interested in his offense as a C than anything else. Phillips was only asking Piazza to help the team, since the Mets, per their low placing in the standings, had a few catchers from the farm who were ready to rock 'n' roll. Mikey seemed more interested in himself, at least to me, than benefitting the team.

I'd say that Nieves' place should be on the bench. When Jorge is pooped, double headers, etc. To me, Nieves' primary purpose is as Moose's personal catcher. I think we had one guy (can't remember his name) who was Unit's personal catcher for awhile, then Randy finally meshed with Jorge (double header or something like that).

If we're comfortably ahead by a few runs, I'd put him in. I'm not sure if it was Clemens' fault, but quite a few thefts off Posada on Friday. Perhaps other duties may await him.

Right now, unless Giambi goes, we've got one too many candidates for 1B and DH. With Tyler Clippard being sent down and Kevin Thompson being called up, we've also got a surplus of OFers too.

DoubleX
06-16-2007, 10:13 PM
I think the real reason behind is Mike Mussina. He can be very regimental and he is now accustomed to Wil Nieves catching (with good results in his past few outings). So the thinking here is that when playing in the NL parks with a shorter lineup, Mussina is appeased by having Nieves catching, but the team doesn't lose Posada's bat. So essentially the team would be trading Cairo for Nieves for those couple of games and that's not that big of a deal, IMO.

I also think Posada will be fine at 1B. I think he was originally a 2Bman in the minors, so he should have some natural skill to play the position. The future might have Posada at 1B at some point anyway.

mikesty
06-16-2007, 11:19 PM
Jorge was indeed a 2nd basemen in his early years, but he wasn't very mobile and wasn't that great of a fielder, so they moved him to catcher where he was stable.

I'd really only like to see Jorge at first if we have a better catcher in the works. Don't forget the good old intangibles/leadership stuff ... all that jazz.

farmsystem
06-17-2007, 09:05 AM
It's an interesting thought. I think that you would want pitching and defense in Colorado. Heck, even the light hitting Nieves might get a few hits or two there. SF seems more like a pitcher's park although I really don't have any stats to back that up. Maybe it's just the light hitting Giants that make it seem that way. Right now I'm just comfortable with Cairo at 1b and Melky in CF.

sanket
06-17-2007, 11:31 AM
Posada: .349/.407/.558

Yeah, put him on the bench. :crazy

Offense of defense? I'll take defense anyday.

monkey333
06-17-2007, 11:42 AM
If offense or defense = Posada or Nieves you're a fool to not take Posada 187% of the time.

sanket
06-17-2007, 12:43 PM
It's not a question between Nieves and Posada, it's between Phelps and Posada at FIRST BASE. Posada does not play first base, if he misplays a few balls and has an error in the game that could potentially be a few extra baserunners and a few extra runs against us. That would lead to Mussina getting knocked out earlier than he'd have to be and us going to our weak bullpen and that means we give up even more runs. At that point it wouldn't matter whether Posada was hitting or not we'd still lose the game.

Instead, we could have Josh Phelps in at first base and not have those extra base runners get on, that would lead to the exact opposite of what would happen if Posada is in.

Defense is so underrated in baseball, just like any sport it's the most important thing in the game. You cannot win without defense.

monkey333
06-17-2007, 01:09 PM
My response was to your foolish "I'd put Posada on the bench" idea, in which case yes, that's exactly a question of Posada or Nieves.

Mariano_Rivera
06-17-2007, 01:30 PM
Defense is so underrated in baseball, just like any sport it's the most important thing in the game. You cannot win without defense.

An individual player can make more defense with his bat than with his glove. You can win with terrible defense if your pitching is fantastic (lots of strikeouts very few walks) and/or you score a ton of runs. You can't win if you get shutout.

sanket
06-17-2007, 03:06 PM
Ok, let's have Posada catch Mussina and Mussina's ERA soar right back up to 38 squared to the 15th power. Mussina has done so much better with Nieves as his catcher.

And do you seriously think that a line up who has Johnny Damon, Derek Jeter, Bobby Abreu, Alex Rodriguez, Robinson Cano, Melky Cabrera, and Hideki Matsui will get shut out by the COLORADO ROCKIES??

Sure, you can win if your pitching is fantastic. Read that again... IF your pitching is fantastic. Last time I checked our pitching wasn't even close to fantastic. If guys are going to give up hits over and over we can't have Posada giving the other team extra outs on plays the Phelps can make.

Yeh, that's right you can't win if you get shutout. That's why we try and shutout the other team with DEFENSE BEHIND OUR PITCHING. Posada can still pinch hit for us late in the game when Mussina is gone. We have a great offense, Posada is not completley needed every single day.

monkey333
06-17-2007, 03:46 PM
Ok, let's have Posada catch Mussina and Mussina's ERA soar right back up to 38 squared to the 15th power. Mussina has done so much better with Nieves as his catcher.Po caught Moose in nearly all of his starts last year and Moose had great success.


And do you seriously think that a line up who has Johnny Damon, Derek Jeter, Bobby Abreu, Alex Rodriguez, Robinson Cano, Melky Cabrera, and Hideki Matsui will get shut out by the COLORADO ROCKIES??
Look at Friday's game, it's very possible. You can never have too much offense.


Sure, you can win if your pitching is fantastic. Read that again... IF your pitching is fantastic. Last time I checked our pitching wasn't even close to fantastic. If guys are going to give up hits over and over we can't have Posada giving the other team extra outs on plays the Phelps can make. Phelps is a horrible fielder. I wouldn't be suprised if Po's as good a fielder at first. Po's bat in the lineup could also lengthen a potential lead to where those possible extra outs don't matter.

mikesty
06-17-2007, 04:18 PM
Ok, let's have Posada catch Mussina and Mussina's ERA soar right back up to 38 squared to the 15th power.

Just for fun, I crunched those numbers. That would yield an impressive ERA of
2.4746164667204543468703763437629 x 10^47, which is 2.7495738519116159409670848264022 x 10^46 runs per inning. Assuming the most efficient way to rack up a run is to get a hit on the first pitch for every batter, this means that the absolute minimum number of pitches to get this ERA would be this number (and then some, to get the outs and actually finish the game). The question is, if you took all the pitches ever thrown in baseball at every level ever, EVERY pitch in the world, would it be enough?

/end nerd rant

Mariano_Rivera
06-17-2007, 05:11 PM
Just for fun, I crunched those numbers. That would yield an impressive ERA of
2.4746164667204543468703763437629 x 10^47, which is 2.7495738519116159409670848264022 x 10^46 runs per inning. Assuming the most efficient way to rack up a run is to get a hit on the first pitch for every batter, this means that the absolute minimum number of pitches to get this ERA would be this number (and then some, to get the outs and actually finish the game). The question is, if you took all the pitches ever thrown in baseball at every level ever, EVERY pitch in the world, would it be enough?

/end nerd rant

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Yesterday's game shows that you can never have to much offense.