New Negro Leagues

[Frank_reilly]

I would like to know if any one has any information on the following Leagues;

:hp
Chicago City League, years 1887, 1890, 1892, 1894, 1909
Denver City League 1930
Baseball Association of America 1949
Texas Negro League 1924-1930
Texas Louisiana Negro League 1931
Texas Oklahoma Negro League 1933-1935
Arkansas Negro League Years ?
Gulf Coast Negro League ?
South Texas Negro League ?
Midwest Negro League (Posssible 1923-1925??)

I am looking for what teams played in these leagues, I found this information on this website - www.minors.sarbweb.com

thank you for any help

[Paul Wendt]

I would like to know fi any one has any information on the following Leagues

Chicago City League, years 1887, 1890, 1892, 1894, 1909
There was no City League at all during the seasons when I have read a lot in the Chicago Tribune, 1899-1902. Certainly 1909 was a distinct city league and I wouldn't take for granted that any two of the earlier seasons were renditions of the same league. (If someone played in or led the City League in 1892 and 1894 it's possible there was no such league in 1893.)

If there had been a city league in 1901, it would not have been a Negro league but it might have included some "crack colored clubs".
I suppose that competition to secure ballparks was an important motive for associations of clubs. An association might lease one or three parks for every Sunday or every Sunday afternoon or every Sunday when the White Stockings were out of town.

IIRC there were few or no leagues or associations in 1899 but in 1900 a big, perhaps nearly comprehensive Association of Base Ball Clubs was re-established. There had been one in the mid- or early 1890s.

In 1901 there were Bankers League, Commercial League, Industrial League - at least some of those - and Academy League, High School League. None of the strongest teams were in any of those leagues. There was an Amateur Managers Baseball League (name?) distinct from the ABBC. The strongest teams were in one of those big groups or independent.

I suppose it's possible that "City League" was sometimes the name of a big association like those two, without set schedule or clearly defined championship. I suppose it's possible that "City League" is sometimes capitalized in historical writing when there was no organization with that name.

There was a City League in Milwaukee, 1899 at least. Those four teams were the strongest semipro teams in the city. All white, I suppose.

--
Chicago Tribune is available online from ProQuest Historical Newspapers which includes a good but not reliable automatic search. Many university libraries and public libraries provide access for all their members or for everyone inside their library buildings. There may not be many public libraries outside the midwest. Boston Public Library provides BGlobe, NYTimes and WSJournal.

[Paul Wendt]

Around 1900 the current organization of baseball clubs in Chicago was comprehensive in nature. I have supposed that the old city league was comprehensive, but that is based only on hints that the current organization was its successor.

What is a comprehensive organization? By 1901 there were more than 200 in the Association. These organizations, ABBC alone or ABBC and Amateur Managers after a split, may have recognized champion teams but it's clear that their main purpose was to coordinate the booking of maybe a dozen ballparks (where clubs could charge admission) and a couple dozen other diamonds. By joining, a club might be sure of a game on a real diamond every Sunday afternoon without leasing the site for the season. Maybe there were umpires who worked a particular park or diamond every weekend, too. If so then the member clubs did not need to arrange all their own umpires either.

Chicago Tribune 1901-04-10 (Wed)
"The Associated Baseball Clubs of Chicago have joined the majority of amateur and semi-professional teams by adopting the playing rules of the American League.
[That is the National League rules of 1900. They like many others joined the AL in making no changes, rejecting the NL rules changes for 1901. Most baseball seasons since the 1860s, the amateurs and semipros, high schools and colleges, and minor pro teams routinely adopted the rule changes passed by the highest association/league. Within organized baseball they were required to do so. If a minor league rejected some NL rule change, it and all of its clubs would lose protection (NL would sign any players) and would be banned (and anyone playing a game against any of those teams would be banned).]
The decision was reached at a meeting last night at Spalding Hall.
[They met in a hall, not a conference room or a lawyer's office. There were dozens of members, more like a whole division of a collegiate sport (Division III baseball) than a conference; more like a whole level in the minors (Class D) than like a league.
Spalding Hall - named in honor? or a Spalding Bros. property, use arranged with the company?]
A spirited discussion arose over the proposed adoption of a new ball, but the proposition was defeated on a rising vote.
[The old ball they agreed to continue using was the Spalding ball. Since 1876 or 1877 Spalding had a deal to provide the official ball of the NL. At times the NL required everyone in organized baseball to use it, or arrange otherwise with Spalding = the baseball monopoly. The new ball was manufactured by the Clark Griffith Co., endorsed by the players union, which hoped that current events would break both the pro league monopoly (NL) and the baseball monopoly (Spalding).
When the Amateur Managers did split from the Association, the ball was one point of difference. The Amateur Managers endorsed the Griffith ball. (I presume that it was cheaper but there was some self-recognized high status associated with using the professional ball, perhaps any Spalding ball. I don't know how many models Spalding marketed.)]

There were more than 200 Association member clubs in 1902.

Chicago Tribune 1902-03-16, "Host of Amateur Nines"
"The Associated Baseball Clubs of Chicago, the largest federation of amateurs in the United States, will have its annual meeting a week from tomorrow night. . . .
The Associated Baseball Clubs now enters upon its sixth year. The federation was formed in the spring of 1897,a year having elapsed since the death of the old City League, which never wrought much for the good of the baseball game. At the start not over a dozen surviving clubs could be found . . ."

So there was some "City League" in 1895 and earlier, perhaps one organization that persisted at least nine seasons (1887-1895), which would cover the four references to early city league(s).

Perhaps the old city league was more like a collegiate athletic "conference" or a professional minor "league". From later sources like these I have supposed not, but of course if it were a smaller group, roughly equal in competitive quality, with one important purpose to organize a championship season and crown a legitimate champion --then of course it would "never wrought much for the good of the baseball game."

[Paul Wendt]

I would like to know fi any one has any information on the following Leagues

Chicago City League, years 1887, 1890, 1892, 1894, [gap] 1909
What is the context or the purpose?

For example, are you looking for affiliations of the Chicago Unions? --the longtime Chicago colored baseball club that Riley considers professional by the mid-1890s.

The Chicago Unions and theh Columbia Giants were members of the Association in winter 1901 and were named in news coverage of the split by "Amateur Managers". At least in some seasons one or both of those clubs did lease its grounds for the season, either every week or the White Stockings park when they were on the road. At least in some seasons, therefore, they were partly independent of the Association for the basic commercial arrangement.
There was some cooperation, however. --I think I know because the Association games were all listed together in the newspaper.
Perhaps the Association itself leased no grounds and relied on its stronger member clubs to do that. The strong club would hold the lease but it would sometimes be away on tour and when home it would sometimes/usually? play only one game rather than two (morning and afternoon). By arranging two games at that park every Sunday, on some cooperative arrangement with the leaseholding club, two to four other Association clubs would have games there every Sunday --four if the home club was away on tour.

The last paragraph is speculative but it is informed speculation. I have looked at dozens of 1899-1902 lists of "Amateur games this weekend" or something like that.


P.S. Say there were 200 teams and the Unions and Giants were two of the ten strongest. They might be called "crack colored clubs" in the Tribune, or in Milwaukee when they played there or nearby. I presume there were some medium strong and some weak colored teams in Chicago, too. But I have never seen any other local team identified as colored, only the one to three (in different seasons) famous strong teams. I think it's likely that medium and weak colored teams were members of the Association, but "colored" didn't matter unless the team deserved prose coverage on other grounds. In the long lists of matches (teams and sites), maybe the weak teams recruited players only in their neighborhoods and played only in their neighborhoods before spectators only from their neighborhoods. At some street addresses (with diamonds not ballparks, no gate) maybe every Sunday afternoon's game was a match between two weak colored teams and everyone who would have cared would have known it.

[Paul Wendt]

According to the plan for Chicago City Baseball League revival in 1897,
there would be eight teams with a schedule of Sunday games.
Every Sunday two clubs would have open dates for out of town engagements.

This seems to be the plan of five clubs (listed) who must yet select or recruit three others (five prospects listed).
I recognize some of the names from 1899-1902 and it appears to me that the organizers hope for at least very good amateur or semipro teams in Greater Chicago. They might aspire to collect "strongest" teams but two years later, if not in 1897, the strongest teams white or black would give up too much by committing to play a league game three Sundays out of four.

There is no mention of the one "crack colored club" known today, the Chicago Unions.

Source: Chicago Tribune 1897-0406 p8