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View Full Version : BBF Progressive HoF Election: 1937



DoubleX
01-29-2009, 02:24 PM
PLEASE READ BEFORE VOTING!

Format and Rules
Voting Rules: Voters may vote for between 0-15 candidates. Votes will be made public, and voters are encouraged to post their ballots in the thread and not view results before voting. PLEASE LIMIT YOUR BALLOT TO 15 VOTES AT MOST. EXCESS VOTES MAY RESULT IN YOUR BALLOT BEING DISQUALIFIED.
-Blank Ballots: A "None of the Above" option is available if you believe no one is worthy and you wish to submit a blank ballot. This option is not to be taken lightly and it is strongly urged that it be used only after the utmost consideration, as non-votes carry great weight. Additionally, if using this option, please post your rationale.

Thoughtfulness and Editing Ballots: Please review and thoughtfully consider the candidates before voting, and make sure you have accurately filled out your ballot before submitting. Requests for editing ballots after the fact will generally not be honored. Exceptions might be made if a voter accidentally voted for the wrong player or accidentally went over the voting limit (but I strongly encourage you to do your best to prevent either from happening).

Required Support: Players receiving at least 75% support in an election will be elected. Players need at least 5% support to stay on the ballot, with an exception for first-year eligible players, who will need at least 1 vote to appear on the next ballot.

Player Eligibility: Players eligible for an election will have last played at least 5 years prior to the election year and have appeared in at least 10 Major League seasons . If a player appeared in less than 10 seasons, he may still be eligible if he had a minimum of 3000 ABs or 1500 IP, though extra scrutiny will be applied. Players will remain on the ballot for 15 years, provided they continue to receive at least 5% of the vote, at which point they will become indefinitely eligible for periodic elections conducted by the Veterans Committee.
- Age Exception: For players 40 or older, they will become eligible the later of either 5 years after their last year of continuous play, or their first inactive year at age 45 or older.

Election Period: Elections will close exactly one week after starting. The next election might not commence for another day or two.


1937 Guide
There are 32 candidates on the 1937 ballot – 22 holdovers and 10 first timers. First time eligible players last played in 1932 (unless qualifying under the age rule).

First Timers (10)
Rube Bressler
Pete Donohue
Mike Gonzalez
Cliff Heathcote
Harry Heilmann
Charlie Jamieson
George Kelly
Clarence Mitchell
Eddie Rommel
Bill Sherdel

Holdovers (22)

Player Year of Eligibility Previous Support High Support Low Support Average Support
Dave Bancroft 3rd 28.13% 28.13% (1936) 27.27% (1935) 27.70%
George J. Burns 8th 15.63% 24.00% (1930) 9.09% (1935) 17.14%
Rip Collins 2nd 3.13% 3.13% (1936) 3.13% (1936) 3.13%
Wilbur Cooper 7th 50.00% 58.33% (1932) 33.33% (1935) 46.78%
Gavvy Cravath 13th 28.13% 37.50% (1925) 18.18% (1935) 26.39%
Joe Dugan 2nd 3.13% 3.13% (1936) 3.13% (1936) 3.13%
Johnny Evers 12th 37.50% 41.67% (1932) 21.21% (1935) 29.34%
Larry Gardner 9th 6.25% 15.63% (1931) 6.25% (1936) 9.17%
Harry Hooper 8th 15.63% 34.38% (1931) 15.63% (1936) 23.19%
Ed Konetchy 12th 15.63% 16.67% (1932) 8.00% (1929) 12.03%
Rube Marquard 8th 9.38% 28.00% (1930) 9.38% (1936) 18.68%
Carl Mays 4th 46.88% 50.00% (1934) 45.45% (1935) 47.44%
Bob Meusel 3rd 6.25% 9.09% (1935) 6.25% (1936) 7.67%
Del Pratt 9th 9.38% 20.83% (1932) 9.38% (1936) 14.76%
Ray Schalk 4th 18.75% 25.00% (1934) 18.18% (1935) 20.64%
Wally Schang 2nd 34.38% 34.38% (1936) 34.38% (1936) 34.38%
Urban Shocker 5th 34.38% 35.71% (1933) 24.24% (1935) 31.34%
Hippo Vaughn 12th 18.75% 21.43% (1934) 10.71% (1927) 15.89%
Bobby Veach 8th 31.25% 39.29% (1934) 24.00% (1930) 30.96%
Cy Williams 3rd 12.50% 15.15% (1935) 12.50% (1936) 13.83%
Joe Wood 11th 9.38% 35.71% (1927) 9.38% (1936) 20.77%
Ross Youngs 7th 6.25% 12.50% (1931) 6.25% (1936) 9.47%

Holdovers Dropped from Last Election (3)

Player Reason Years on Ballot High Support Low Support Average Support
Chief Bender End of Eligibility 15 60.00% (1929) 35.71% (1934) 45.26%
Tommy Leach End of Eligibility 15 66.67% (1933) 33.33% (1925) 49.60%
Ed Reulbach End of Eligibility 15 17.24% (1924) 6.90% (1934) 11.44%

Last Year of Eligibility (0)

Player High Support

Penultimate Year of Eligibility (0)

Player High Support

Holdovers Receiving At Least 50% in the Previous Election (1)

Player Previous Support Years with At Least 50% Support
Wilbur Cooper 50.00% 3


HALL OF FAMERS

Players Elected (79)

Player Year Elected Election Percentage Years on Ballot Position Primary Team Active Years Total Seasons Living/Deceased Age at Election
Pete Alexander 1935 93.94% 1 Pitcher Philadelphia Phillies (NL) 1911-1930 20 Living - Age 50 48
Cap Anson 1902 100% 1 First Base Chicago White Stockings (Cubs) (NL) 1871-1897 27 Deceased (1852-1922) 50
Frank Baker 1927 96.43% 1 Third Base Philadelphia Athletics (AL) 1908-1914, 1916-1919, 1921-1922 13 Living - Age 51 41
Ross Barnes^ 1911 76.00% 11 Second Base Boston Red Stockings (NA) 1871-1879, 1881 9 Deceased (1850-1915) 61
Jake Beckley 1917 76.00% 6 First Base Pittsburgh Pirates (NL) 1887-1907 20 Deceased (1867-1918) 50
Charlie Bennett 1907 75.00% 7 Catcher Detroit Wolverines (NL) 1878, 1880-1893 15 Deceased (1854-1927) 53
Roger Bresnahan 1925 79.17% 6 Catcher New York Giants (NL) 1897, 1900-1915 17 Living - Age 56 46
Dan Brouthers 1901 90.00% 1 First Base Buffalo Bisons (NL) 1879-1896, 1904 18 Deceased (1858-1932) 50
Mordecai Brown 1921 96.77% 1 Pitcher Chicago Cubs (NL) 1903-1916 14 Living – Age 61 45
Pete Browning 1909 77.27% 9 Center Field/Left Field Louisville Colonels (NL/AA) 1882-1894 13 Deceased (1861-1905) Deceased
Jesse Burkett 1910 92.00% 1 Left field Cleveland Spiders (NL) 1890-1905 16 Living – Age 69 42
Max Carey 1934 82.14% 1 Center Field Pittsburgh Pirates (NL) 1910-1929 20 Living - Age 47 44
Bob Caruthers 1909 77.27% 9 Pitcher/Right Field St. Louis Browns (Cardinals) (NL/AA) 1884-1893 10 Deceased (1864-1911) 45
Frank Chance 1932 83.33% 14 First Base Chicago Cubs (NL) 1898-1914 17 Deceased (1876-1924) Deceased
Cupid Childs 1920 76.92% 15 Second Base Cleveland Spiders (NL) 1888, 1890-1901 13 Deceased (1867-1912) Deceased
Fred Clarke 1917 88.00% 1 Left Field Pittsburgh Pirates (NL) 1894-1915 21 Living – Age 69 45
John Clarkson 1901 90.00% 1 Pitcher Boston Beaneaters (Braves) (NL) 1882, 1884-1894 12 Deceased (1861-1909) 40
Ty Cobb 1933 96.55% 1 Center Field Detroit Tigers (AL) 1905-1928 24 Living - Age 51 47
Eddie Collins 1935 96.67% 1 Second Base Chicago White Sox (AL) 1906-1930 25 Living Age - 50 48
Jimmy Collins 1913 82.61% 1 Third Base Boston Americans (Red Sox) (AL) 1895-1908 14 Living – Age 67 43
Roger Connor 1902 79.17% 1 First Base New York Giants (NL) 1880-1897 18 Deceased (1857-1931) 45
Stan Coveleski 1934 89.29% 2 Pitcher Cleveland Indians (AL) 1912, 1916-1928 14 Living - Age 48 45
Sam Crawford 1922 92.86% 1 Right Field Detroit Tigers (AL) 1899-1917 19 Living – Age 57 41
Bill Dahlen 1916 88.00% 1 Shortstop Chicago Colts (Cubs) (NL) 1891-1911 21 Living – Age 67 46
George Davis 1914 84.62% 1 Shortstop New York Giants (NL) 1890-1909 20 Living – Age 67 44
Ed Delahanty 1908 96.00% 1 Left Field Philadelphia Phillies (NL) 1888-1903 16 Deceased (1867-1903) Deceased
Larry Doyle 1926 76.00% 2 Second Base New York Giants (NL) 1907-1920 14 Living - Age 51 40
Hugh Duffy 1918 75.00% 8 Center Field/Outfield Boston Beaneaters (Braves) (NL) 1888-1901, 1904-1906 17 Living – Age 71 52
Buck Ewing 1902 83.33% 1 Catcher New York Giants (NL) 1880-1897 18 Deceased (1859-1906) 43
Elmer Flick 1916 80.00% 1 Right Field Cleveland Naps (Indians) (AL) 1898-1910 13 Living – Age 61 40
Pud Galvin 1903 80.77% 3 Pitcher Buffalo Bisons (NL) 1875, 1879-1892 15 Deceased (1856-1902) Deceased
Jack Glasscock 1911 84.00% 11 Shortstop Cleveland Blues (NL) 1879-1895 17 Living – Age 80 54
George Gore 1909 77.27% 9 Center Field Chicago White Stockings (Cubs) (NL) 1879-1892 14 Deceased (1857-1933) 52
Heinie Groh 1936 81.25% 5 Third Base Cincinnati Reds (NL) 1912-1927 16 Living - Age 48 47
Billy Hamilton 1906 82.61% 1 Center Field Philadelphia Phillies (NL) 1888-1901 14 Living – Age 71 40
Paul Hines 1904 76.00% 4 Center Field Providence Grays (NL) 1872-1891 20 Deceased (1855-1935) 49
Hughie Jennings 1927 75.00% 14 Shortstop Baltimore Orioles (NL) 1891-1903, 1907, 1909, 1912, 1918 17 Deceased (1869-1928) 58
Walter Johnson 1932 100% 1 Pitcher Washington Senators (AL) 1907-1927 21 Living - Age 50 45
Addie Joss 1929 76.00% 15 Pitcher Cleveland Naps (Indians) (AL) 1902-1910 9 Deceased (1880-1911) Deceased
Tim Keefe 1901 75.00% 1 Pitcher New York Giants (NL) 1880-1893 14 Deceased (1857-1933) 44
Willie Keeler 1916 92.00% 2 Right Field Baltimore Orioles (NL) 1892-1910 19 Deceased (1872-1923) 44
Joe Kelley 1920 84.62% 8 Left Field Baltimore Orioles (NL) 1891-1906, 1908 17 Living – Age 66 49
King Kelly 1902 75.00% 2 Right Field/Catcher Chicago White Stockings (Cubs) (NL) 1878-1893 16 Deceased (1857-1894) Deceased
Napoleon Lajoie 1921 96.77% 1 Second Base Cleveland Naps (Indians) (AL) 1896-1916 21 Living – Age 63 47
Herman Long* 1925 (VC) 75.00% VC Shortstop Boston Beaneaters (Braves) (NL) 1889-1904 16 Deceased (1866-1909) Deceased
Sherry Magee 1924 86.21% 1 Left Field Philadelphia Phillies (NL) 1904-1919 16 Deceased (1884-1929) 40
Christy Mathewson 1922 93.55% 1 Pitcher New York Giants (NL) 1900-1916 17 Deceased (1880-1925) 41
Joe McGinnity 1913 91.30% 1 Pitcher New York Giants (NL) 1899-1908 10 Deceased (1871-1929) 42
Bid McPhee 1905 75.00% 2 Second Base Cincinnati Reds (NL/AA) 1882-1899 18 Living – Age 78 46
Cal McVey*^ 1920 (VC) 83.33% VC Catcher/First Base Boston Red Stockings (NA) 1871-1879 9 Deceased (1849-1926) 71
Tony Mullane 1908 80.00% 8 Pitcher Cincinnati Reds (NL/AA) 1881-1894 14 Living – Age 77 49
Kid Nichols 1911 100% 1 Pitcher Boston Beaneaters (Braves) (NL) 1890-1901, 1904-1906 15 Living – Age 68 42
Jim O’Rourke 1901 90.00% 1 Left Field/Utility New York Giants (NL) 1872-1893, 1904 23 Deceased (1850-1919) 51
Dickey Pearce*^ 1920 (VC) 100% VC Shortstop Brooklyn Atlantics (NA) 1871-1877 7 Deceased (1836-1908) Deceased
Lip Pike*^ 1920 (VC) 75.00% VC Center Field Baltimore Canaries (NA) 1871-1878, 1881, 1887 10 Deceased (1845-1893) Deceased
Eddie Plank 1922 92.86% 1 Pitcher Philadelphia Athletics (AL) 1901-1917 17 Deceased (1875-1926) 47
Charley Radbourn 1901 95.00% 1 Pitcher Providence Grays (NL) 1881-1891 11 Deceased (1854-1897) Deceased
Hardy Richardson* 1920 (VC) 91.67% VC Second Base/Left Field Buffalo Bisons (NL) 1879-1892 14 Deceased (1855-1931) 65
Amos Rusie 1906 78.26% 1 Pitcher New York Giants (NL) 1889-1895, 1897-1898, 1901 10 Living – Age 66 35
Jimmy Ryan* 1930 (VC) 86.67% VC Center Field Chicago Colts (Cubs) (NL) 1885-1900, 1902-1903 18 Deceased (1885-1923) Deceased
George Sisler 1935 90.91% 1 First Base St. Louis Browns (AL) 1915-1922, 1924-1930 15 Living - Age 44 42
Al Spalding^ 1915 80.00% 15 Pitcher Boston Red Stockings (NA) 1871-1878 8 Deceased (1850-1915) Deceased
Tris Speaker 1933 100% 1 Center Field Cleveland Indians (AL) 1907-1928 22 Living - Age 49 45
Joe Start*^ 1920 (VC) 91.67% VC First Base Providence Grays (NL) 1871-1886 16 Deceased (1842-1927) 78
Harry Stovey 1907 75.00% 7 Left Field/First Base Philadelphia Athletics (AA) 1880-1893 14 Deceased (1856-1937) 51
Ezra Sutton* 1920 (VC) 83.33% VC Third Base Boston Beaneaters (Braves) (NL) 1871-1888 18 Deceased (1850-1907) Deceased
Sam Thompson 1907 79.17% 5 Right Field Philadelphia Phillies (NL) 1885-1898, 1906 15 Deceased (1860-1922) 47
George Van Haltren 1918 75.00% 11 Center Field New York Giants (NL) 1887-1903 17 Living – Age 71 52
Rube Waddell 1915 84.00% 1 Pitcher Philadelphia Athletics (AL) 1897, 1899-1910 13 Deceased (1876-1914) Deceased
Honus Wagner 1922 92.86% 1 Shortstop Pittsburgh Pirates (NL) 1897-1917 21 Living – Age 63 48
Bobby Wallace 1925 75.00% 3 Shortstop St. Louis Browns (AL) 1894-1918 25 Living - Age 64 52
Ed Walsh 1922 89.29% 1 Pitcher Chicago White Sox (AL) 1904-1917 14 Living – Age 56 41
John Ward 1907 75.00% 7 Shortstop/Pitcher New York Giants (NL) 1878-1894 17 Deceased (1860-1925) 47
Mickey Welch* 1920 (VC) 75.00% VC Pitcher New York Giants (NL) 1880-1892 13 Living – Age 78 61
Zack Wheat 1932 87.50% 1 Left Field Brooklyn Robins (Dodgers) (NL) 1909-1927 19 Living - Age 49 44
Deacon White^ 1904 76.00% 4 Catcher/Third Base Buffalo Bisons (NL) 1871-1890 20 Living – Age 90 57
Vic Willis 1919 77.78% 5 Pitcher Boston Beaneaters (Braves) (NL) 1898-1910 13 Living – Age 61 43
George Wright^ 1907 75.00% 7 Shortstop Boston Red Stockings (NA) 1871-1882 12 Deceased (1847-1937) 60
Cy Young 1916 100% 1 Pitcher Boston Americans (Red Sox) (AL) 1890-1911 22 Living – Age 70 49

* = Elected by Veterans Committee
^ = Played Significantly Prior to 1871

Players Elected by Primary Position
Catcher (5): Charlie Bennett, Roger Bresnahan, Buck Ewing, Cal McVey, Deacon White
First Base (7): Cap Anson, Jake Beckley, Dan Brouthers, Frank Chance, Roger Connor, George Sisler, Joe Start
Second Base (7): Ross Barnes, Cupid Childs, Eddie Collins, Larry Doyle, Napoleon Lajoie, Bid McPhee, Hardy Richardson
Third Base (4): Frank Baker, Jimmy Collins, Heinie Groh, Ezra Sutton
Shortstop (10): Bill Dahlen, George Davis, Jack Glasscock, Hughie Jennings, Herman Long, Dickey Pearce, Honus Wagner, Bobby Wallace, John Ward, George Wright
Left Field (8): Jesse Burkett, Fred Clarke, Ed Delahanty, Joe Kelley, Sherry Magee, Jim O'Rourke, Harry Stovey, Zack Wheat
Center Field (11): Pete Browning, Max Carey, Ty Cobb, Hugh Duffy, George Gore, Billy Hamilton, Paul Hines, Lip Pike, Jimmy Ryan, Tris Speaker, George Van Haltren
Right Field (5): Sam Crawford, King Kelly, Elmer Flick, Willie Keeler, Sam Thompson
Pitcher (22): Pete Alexander, Mordecai Brown, Bob Caruthers, John Clarkson, Stan Coveleski, Pud Galvin, Walter Johnson, Addie Joss, Tim Keefe, Christy Mathewson, Joe McGinnity, Tony Mullane, Kid Nichols, Eddie Plank, Charley Radbourn, Amos Rusie, Al Spalding, Rube Waddell, Ed Walsh, Mickey Welch, Vic Willis, Cy Young

Players Elected by Year
1901 (5): Dan Brouthers, John Clarkson, Tim Keefe, Jim O’Rourke, Charley Radbourn
1902 (4): Cap Anson, Roger Connor, Buck Ewing, King Kelly
1903 (1): Pud Galvin
1904 (2): Paul Hines, Deacon White
1905 (1): Bid McPhee
1906 (2): Billy Hamilton, Amos Rusie
1907 (5): Charlie Bennett, Harry Stovey, Sam Thompson, John Ward, George Wright
1908 (2): Ed Delahanty, Tony Mullane
1909 (3): Pete Browning, Bob Caruthers, George Gore
1910 (1): Jesse Burkett
1911 (3): Ross Barnes, Jack Glasscock, Kid Nichols
1912 (0):
1913 (2): Jimmy Collins, Joe McGinnity
1914 (1): George Davis
1915 (2): Al Spalding, Rube Waddell
1916 (4): Bill Dahlen, Elmer Flick, Willie Keeler, Cy Young
1917 (2): Jake Beckley, Fred Clarke
1918 (2): Hugh Duffy, George Van Haltren
1919 (1): Vic Willis
1920 (2): Cupid Childs, Joe Kelley
- 1920 VC (7): Cal McVey, Dickey Pearce, Lip Pike, Hardy Richardson, Joe Start, Ezra Sutton, Mickey Welch
1921 (3): Mordecai Brown, Napoleon Lajoie, Christy Mathewson
1922 (4): Sam Crawford, Eddie Plank, Honus Wagner, Ed Walsh
1923 (0):
1924 (1): Sherry Magee
1925 (2): Roger Bresnahan, Bobby Wallace
- 1925 VC (1): Herman Long
1926 (1): Larry Doyle
1927 (2): Frank Baker, Hughie Jennings
1928 (0):
1929 (1): Addie Joss
1930 (0):
- 1930 VC (1): Jimmy Ryan
1931 (0):
1932 (3): Frank Chance, Walter Johnson, Zack Wheat
1933 (2): Ty Cobb, Tris Speaker
1934 (2): Max Carey, Stan Coveleski
1935 (3): Pete Alexander, Eddie Collins, George Sisler
- 1935 VC (0):
1936 (1): Heinie Groh

Players Elected by Primary Decade
1870s (9): Ross Barnes, Cal McVey, Dickey Pearce, Lip Pike, Al Spalding, Joe Start, Ezra Sutton, Deacon White, George Wright
1880s (21): Cap Anson, Charlie Bennett, Dan Brouthers, Pete Browning, Bob Caruthers, John Clarkson, Roger Conner, Buck Ewing, Pud Galvin, Jack Glasscock, George Gore, Paul Hines, Tim Keefe, King Kelly, Tony Mullane, Jim O’Rourke, Charley Radbourn, Hardy Richardson, Harry Stovey, John Ward, Mickey Welch
1890s (17): Jake Beckley, Jesse Burkett, Cupid Childs, Bill Dahlen, George Davis, Ed Delahanty, Hugh Duffy, Billy Hamilton, Hughie Jennings, Joe Kelley, Herman Long, Bid McPhee, Kid Nichols, Jimmy Ryan, Amos Rusie, Sam Thompson, George Van Haltren
1900s (19): Roger Bresnahan, Mordecai Brown, Frank Chance, Fred Clarke, Jimmy Collins, Sam Crawford, Elmer Flick, Addie Joss, Willie Keeler, Napoleon Lajoie, Christy Mathewson, Joe McGinnity, Eddie Plank, Rube Waddell, Honus Wagner, Bobby Wallace, Ed Walsh, Vic Willis, Cy Young
1910s (12): Pete Alexander, Frank Baker , Max Carey, Ty Cobb, Eddie Collins, Larry Doyle, Heinie Groh, Walter Johnson, Sherry Magee, Tris Speaker, Zack Wheat
1920s (2): Stan Coveleski, George Sisler

Players Elected by Primary Organization
Baltimore Canaries (NA) (1): Lip Pike
Baltimore Orioles (NL) (3): Hughie Jennings, Willie Keeler, Joe Kelley
Boston Braves (fka Beaneaters) (NL) (6): John Clarkson, Hugh Duffy, Herman Long, Kid Nichols, Ezra Sutton, Vic Willis
Boston Red Sox (fka Americans) (AL) (2): Jimmy Collins, Cy Young
Boston Red Stockings (NA) (4): Ross Barnes, Cal McVey, Al Spalding, George Wright
Brooklyn Atlantics (NA) (1): Dickey Pearce
Brooklyn Dodgers (fka Robins) (1): Zack Wheat
Buffalo Bisons (NL) (4): Dan Brouthers, Pud Galvin, Hardy Richardson, Deacon White
Chicago Cubs (fka White Stockings, Colts) (NL) (7): Cap Anson, Mordecai Brown, Frank Chance, Bill Dahlen, George Gore, King Kelly, Jimmy Ryan
Chicago White Sox (AL) (2): Eddie Collins, Ed Walsh
Cincinnati Reds (NL, AA) (3): Heinie Groh, Bid McPhee, Tony Mullane
Cleveland Blues (NL) (1): Jack Glasscock
Cleveland Indians (fka Naps) (AL) (5): Stan Coveleski, Elmer Flick, Addie Joss, Napoleon Lajoie, Tris Speaker
Cleveland Spiders (NL) (2): Jesse Burkett, Cupid Childs
Detroit Tigers (AL) (2): Ty Cobb, Sam Crawford
Detroit Wolverines (NL) (1): Charlie Bennett
Louisville Colonels (NL, AA) (1): Pete Browning
New York Giants (NL) (13): Roger Bresnahan, Roger Connor, George Davis, Larry Doyle, Buck Ewing, Tim Keefe, Christy Mathewson, Joe McGinnity, Jim O’Rourke, Amos Rusie, George Van Haltren, John Ward, Mickey Welch
Philadelphia Athletics (AL) (3): Frank Baker, Eddie Plank, Rube Waddell
Philadelphia Athletics (AA) (1): Harry Stovey
Philadelphia Phillies (NL) (5): Pete Alexander, Ed Delahanty, Billy Hamilton, Sherry Magee, Sam Thompson
Pittsburgh Pirates (NL) (4): Jake Beckley, Max Carey, Fred Clarke, Honus Wagner
Providence Grays (NL) (3): Paul Hines, Charley Radbourn, Joe Start
St. Louis Browns (AL) (2): George Sisler, Bobby Wallace
St. Louis Cardinals (fka Browns) (NL, AA) (1): Bob Caruthers
Washington Senators (AL) (1): Walter Johnson


Miscellaneous Information
- Highest Regular Election Percentage: Cap Anson, Walter Johnson, Kid Nichols, Tris Speaker, Cy Young – 100%
- Number of 1st Ballot Electees: 37
- Number of Electees with At Least 90% Support: 24
- Average Regular Election Percentage: 84.88%
- Most Years on Ballot Before Election: Cupid Childs, Addie Joss, Al Spalding – 15
- Number of Players Elected After 10 Years on Ballot: 8
- Average Wait Before Election: 3.93 Years
- Number of Players Lasting 15 Years on Ballot without Election: 24
- Number of Players Elected by Veterans Committee: 9
- Average Electees per Veterans Committee Election: 2.25
- Highest Percentage Among Players Not Elected: Tommy Leach - 66.67% (1933)
- Highest Average Percentage Among Players Not Elected: Tommy Leach - 49.60%
- Most Regular Election Electees in One Year: 5 (1901, 1907)
- Fewest Regular Election Electees in One Year: 0 (1912, 1923, 1928, 1930, 1931)
- Average Regular Election Electees Per Year: 2
- Largest Ballot: 78 Players (1901)
- Largest Post-1915 Ballot: 47 Players (1932)
- Smallest Ballot: 23 Players (1918)
- Most Votes Cast: 33 (1935)
- Fewest Votes Cast: 20 (1901)
- Average Votes Cast: 25.94
- Team With Most Players Elected: New York Giants - 13
- Team With Second Most Players Elected: Chicago Cubs - 7
- Electee with Longest Post-1871 Career: Cap Anson – 27 Seasons
- Electee with Shortest Post-1871 Career: Dickey Pearce – 8 Seasons
- Average Post-1871 Career Length of Electees: 16.17 Seasons
- Youngest Elected Player: Amos Rusie – Age 35
- Oldest Elected Player: Joe Start – 78
- Average Age at Election: 47.95
- Number of Posthumously Elected Players: 15
- Number of Living Hall of Famers: 40
- Oldest Living Hall of Famer: Deacon White - 90
- Deceased in Past Year: Harry Stovey, George Wright

Number of Ballots Submitted in Past Elections
1901: 20
1902: 24
1903: 26
1904: 25
1905: 24
1906: 23
1907: 24
1908: 25
1909: 22
1910: 25
1911: 25
1912: 23
1913: 23
1914: 26
1915: 25
1916: 25
1917: 25
1918: 24
1919: 27
1920: 26
1921: 31
1922: 28
1923: 25
1924: 29
1925: 24
1926: 25
1927: 28
1928: 27
1929: 25
1930: 25
1931: 32
1932: 24
1933: 29
1934: 28
1935: 33
1936: 32

Links to Past Elections (10)
1901 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=77167)
1902 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=77464)
1903 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=77797)
1904 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=78133)
1905 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=78417)
1906 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=78737)
1907 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=79020)
1908 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=79393)
1909 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=79738)
1910 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=80134)
1911 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=80597)
1912 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=81008)
1913 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=81477)
1914 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=81965)
1915 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=82365)
1916 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=82681)
1917 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=82940)
1918 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=83241)
1919 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=83422)
1920 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=83665), 1920 Players VC (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=83697)
1921 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=83924)
1922 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=84099)
1923 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=84257)
1924 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=84423)
1925 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=84552), 1925 Players VC (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=84636)
1926 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=84727)
1927 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=84871)
1928 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=85029)
1929 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=85206)
1930 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=85358), 1930 Players VC (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=85439)
1931 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=85681)
1932 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=85850)
1933 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=86054)
1934 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=86291)
1935 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=86514), 1935 Players VC (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=86576)
1936 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?p=1408310#post1408310)

rsuriyop
01-29-2009, 02:41 PM
Harry Heilmann
Carl Mays
Wally Schang
Urban Shocker

AstrosFan
01-29-2009, 03:38 PM
Harry Heilmann

Senor Octobre
01-29-2009, 04:51 PM
My ballot...

Dave Bancroft
Wilbur Cooper
Johnny Evers
Harry Heilmann
Harry Hooper
Carl Mays
Ray Schalk
Wally Schang
Urban Shocker
Hippo Vaughn
Bobby Veach
Cy Williams

Added Ray Schalk and Urban Shocker. Could be convinced to add Cravath and Konetchy next ballot.
First timer Harry Heilmann should be a no-brainer. Should be.

philkid3
01-29-2009, 05:41 PM
Harry Heilmann
Bobby Veach

Cowtipper
01-29-2009, 05:52 PM
Burns
Cravath
Heilmann
Konetchy
Mays
Pratt
Veach

jalbright
01-29-2009, 06:10 PM
Wilbur Cooper
Harry Heilmann
Carl Mays

Brad Harris
01-29-2009, 06:12 PM
Cooper
Cravath
Evers
Heilmann
Konetchy
Mays
Pratt
Schang
Shocker
Williams

jjpm74
01-29-2009, 06:23 PM
Shortest ballot to date:

Wilbur Cooper
Ray Schalk
Wally Schang
Urban Shocker
Bobby Veach

and none of them are guys I feel strongly enough about to take on their cause. With Tommy Leach expiring, he is the first guy since the 1st VC committee who I think is an oversight. Overall, the general electorate is doing a great job getting the guys most deserving elected. :thumbsup:

dgarza
01-29-2009, 07:27 PM
Dave Bancroft
George Burns
Gavvy Cravath
Johnny Evers
Harry Heilmann
Harry Hooper
Rube Marquard
Carl Mays
Bobby Veach
Ross Youngs
Cy Williams

1. Harry Heilmann
2. Bobby Veach
3. Carl Mays
4. Gavvy Cravath
5. Cy Williams
6. George J Burns
7. Ross Youngs
8. Dave Bancroft
9. Rube Marquard
10. Harry Hooper
11. Johnny Evers

Bothrops Atrox
01-29-2009, 07:28 PM
Heilmann
Shocker

henrich
01-29-2009, 07:34 PM
Down to 10 this season

Vaughn
Shocker
Schang
Meusel
Mays
Marquard
Hooper
Heilmann
Gardner
Evers

SavoyBG
01-29-2009, 09:04 PM
I went for just Heilmann and Mays. Heilmann is more than qualified, but let me make a case for Mays:

Mays has 256 career win shares. That is more than the following hall of famers: Stan Coveleski, Addie Joss, Al Spalding, Rube Waddell

Mays has a career ERA+ of 119 (in over 3,000 innings). That is better than the ERA+ of the following hall of famers: Pud Galvin, Tony Mullane, Mickey Welch, Vic Willis

Mays matches up very well with Joe McGinnity:

CAREER WIN SHARES
Mays - 256
McGinnity - 269

WIN SHARES per 162
Mays - 29.46
McGinnity - 29.52

ERA+
Mays - 119 in 3021 innings
McGinnity - 120 in 3441 innings

McGinnity's peak was better, but mainly because pitchers worked so many more innings in his day than in Mays' day. Mays was above average in 14 out of 15 seasons, only missing in 1923 when Huggins refused to use him much.

Mays has a career win% of .623 (208-126), which is higher than any of our hall of famers except for Caruthers, Mathewson, Clarkson, Brown, Alexander, Nichols, McGinnity and Plank.

Other than Bob Caruthers, Mays may be the best hitting pitcher of all time. He had a higher average as a hitter (.268) than he yielded as a pitcher (.257).

Bill James ranks Mays ahead of hall of famers McGinnity, Clarkson, Radbourn, Waddell, Keefe, Coveleski, Joss, Mullane, Willis, Caruthers, Welch and Galvin.

Mays win shares peak is better than that of Plank or Joss.

BEST THREE SEASONS
Mays - 35-30-27
Plank - 31-29-29
Joss - 35-28-25

BEST 5 CONSECUTIVE SEASONS
Mays - 140
Plank - 133
Joss - 131

He twice led the AL in saves with 7 in 1915 and 1921 (tied).

The numbers are there. The arguments against are mainly emotional, the pitch he hit Chapman with back in 1920 (a good argument for players wearing some kind of head protection when batting), and unproven suspicions of him tanking a world series game (or two) in 1921 and/or 1922.

I think Carl Mays deserves your vote.

Bothrops Atrox
01-29-2009, 09:21 PM
The numbers are there. The arguments against are mainly emotional, the pitch he hit Chapman with back in 1920 (a good argument for players wearing some kind of head protection when batting), and unproven suspicions of him tanking a world series game (or two) in 1921 and/or 1922.

I think Carl Mays deserves your vote.

The correct argument against is the huge defensive and offensive support he got. The Boston, N.Y. and Cinncinati defenses he played for were all very good - his defensive adjusted ERA+ is nowhere near 119. His career run support index is (if I am not mistaken) well over 105. For a guy with less-than-overwhelming HOF numbers to begin with, that is a big deal.

Now, how much does his big bat offset this? I am not sure. Maybe enough? I am not sure. I need to look into it more. Not trying to bash Mays here- underrated, forgotten, and given a bum wrap for the "incident" and yet to be proven alleged game-fixing. I am just not sure that his adjusted numbers warrant Cooperstown.

SavoyBG
01-29-2009, 11:55 PM
Shortest ballot to date:

Wilbur Cooper
Ray Schalk
Wally Schang
Urban Shocker
Bobby Veach

and none of them are guys I feel strongly enough about to take on their cause. With Tommy Leach expiring, he is the first guy since the 1st VC committee who I think is an oversight. Overall, the general electorate is doing a great job getting the guys most deserving elected. :thumbsup:

What's your objection to Heilmann, if I may ask?

Do you see Leach as more qualified to be inducted than Heilmann?

philkid3
01-30-2009, 03:37 AM
Looking ahead already (boring year), next year's not too stacked, either. Nearest I can figure, Joe Sewell, Eppa Rixey and Red Faber are the only ones worth discussing. And I'm not sure I'll vote for any of the them (though, with a year to think about it, I'm pretty sure I'll be voting for Sewell).

It's certainly possible next year will be my first one name ballot ever.

gman5431
01-30-2009, 05:24 AM
Heilmann

G Man

dgarza
01-30-2009, 05:53 AM
Mays has a career win% of .623 (208-126), which is higher than any of our hall of famers except for Caruthers, Mathewson, Clarkson, Brown, Alexander, Nichols, McGinnity and Plank.

I think Carl Mays deserves your vote.
His AL % is also 10th best all-time (1000 IPs) at .627 (151-90).

mwiggins
01-30-2009, 05:54 AM
Heilmann
Schang
Youngs

PVNICK
01-30-2009, 06:47 AM
Cooper
Evers
Mays
Shocker
Vaughn

and I need my eyes checked I missed Heilmann.

vtbub
01-30-2009, 07:44 AM
Heilmann
Mays
Shocker

jjpm74
01-30-2009, 08:03 AM
What's your objection to Heilmann, if I may ask?

Do you see Leach as more qualified to be inducted than Heilmann?

No Objection. I missed his name when voting.

KCGHOST
01-30-2009, 09:28 AM
Heilmann
Shocker

mwiggins
01-30-2009, 09:48 AM
I'm suprised Rommell hasn't gotten ANY votes yet. I don't see a big difference between him, Shocker, and Mays - not enough to justify him being one-and-done while Mays and Shocker generate significant support. He doesn't have a lot of innings, but Shocker just has 125 more. And while Shocker looks like he was more effective, there's not a lot of difference between the two. Is Shocker just over the line for the people voting for him, or am I missing something here?

Domenic
01-30-2009, 09:49 AM
Cooper
Cravath
Heilmann
Veach

Brooklyn
01-30-2009, 10:01 AM
Harry Heilmann

Paul Wendt
01-30-2009, 10:09 AM
George Kelly (http://www.baseball-reference.com/k/kellyge01.shtml)
He is 42 years old. Unless I am missing something he should be eligible here now.

So many people have voted promptly!
If I am right, and Gorgeous George is added to the ballot, I will cast him a vote. There are other freshmen I plan to support this year but I have room.

Paul Wendt
01-30-2009, 11:14 AM
I'm suprised Rommell hasn't gotten ANY votes yet. I don't see a big difference between him, Shocker, and Mays - not enough to justify him being one-and-done while Mays and Shocker generate significant support. He doesn't have a lot of innings, but Shocker just has 125 more. And while Shocker looks like he was more effective, there's not a lot of difference between the two. Is Shocker just over the line for the people voting for him, or am I missing something here?
I'll vote for the urbane Shockcor and for Mister Mack's Marberry, too, although only for this year, I expect.

Shocker was more effective on the mound, very good at bat(*), and he missed about 4/6 of the 1918 season (when everyone missed 1/6).

Measured by ERA+ and OPS+, Shocker was three points better on the mound and 27 points better at bat.

Neither one benefat much from superior team fielding support, Rommel a little more, but perhaps below average for a good career pitcher. By Clay Davenport's measure DERA, on the ERA+ scale, which I call DERA+: Shocker 120.6, Rommel 116.6.

As a group the good career pitchers enjoy team fielding somewhat better than league average. That effect is enough for Shocker and Rommel to rank higher by DERA+ than by ERA+ although their ERA+ ratings are higher, 124 and 121.

Among the 637 pitchers whose career data I have in one table, Shocker ranks tie 73-74-75 with Tim Keefe and Dennis Eckersley at DERA+ 120.6; Rommel tie for 113 to 117 with Whitey Ford and relievers Perranoski, Howe, Gordon. By ERA+ Shocker ties for 87 to 94 and Rommel tie for 118 to 131.

Today noon I posted my current version of that career data table 637pitchers.txt. (See the Data Available thread.) The essential change is to provide PA and OPS+ for everyone.

By the way, 116 of the 637 pitchers worked more than half of their pitcher games in relief, from John Franco at 1119 reliefs and no starts to Eddie Rommel at 251 reliefs and 249 starts. Shocker is in the middle of the pack that I have covered, rank 290 of 637 at gRelief/gStart = 0.29 (just over 3/4 starts).

DoubleX
01-30-2009, 11:54 AM
George Kelly (http://www.baseball-reference.com/k/kellyge01.shtml)
He is 42 years old. Unless I am missing something he should be eligible here now.

So many people have voted promptly!
If I am right, and Gorgeous George is added to the ballot, I will cast him a vote. There are other freshmen I plan to support this year but I have room.

Doh! You're right. I don't know why I left Kelly out. He was on my list of players to add. I can't restart the poll but I'll add Kelly to the very end. If anyone who's already voted would like to vote for Kelly, let me know and I'll add the votes for Kelly.

jjpm74
01-30-2009, 01:59 PM
Doh! You're right. I don't know why I left Kelly out. He was on my list of players to add. I can't restart the poll but I'll add Kelly to the very end. If anyone who's already voted would like to vote for Kelly, let me know and I'll add the votes for Kelly.

Add me as a vote for Kelly more so he can get a fair shake next year than anything.

DoubleX
01-30-2009, 04:52 PM
Add me as a vote for Kelly more so he can get a fair shake next year than anything.

Are you sure? Paul already said he intends to vote for Kelly so that would guarantee Kelly on the next ballot.

jjpm74
01-30-2009, 05:09 PM
Are you sure? Paul already said he intends to vote for Kelly so that would guarantee Kelly on the next ballot.

Yes, I'm sure. I also messed up and accidentally left Heilmann off my ballot if you could correct it. I have the flu, so I haven't been myself the past couple of days.

BlueBlood
01-31-2009, 07:58 PM
Wilbur Cooper
Harry Heilmann
Carl Mays

X

I get the feeling my ballots will be increasingly small as the cases seem to become a clearer yes/no for people as we move further through history. Or at least the players I support in future elections are ones that will be elected quickly by the voters here.

DoubleX
02-02-2009, 08:27 AM
Given that this year seems pretty set, maybe we should take about some of the candidates that will become eligible next year. In particular, there are two pitchers that I think will probably require some lengthy discussion to get a handle on - Red Faber and Eppa Rixey.

Both are long-career guys, but don't really jump out as much as most of the pitcher we've elected. Faber pitched nearly 4100 innings and had an ERA+ of 119. Not bad. He had three years where he was an excellent pitcher and put up 91 Win Shares in those three years, an average of 31. However, he only had one other 20 Win Share season and finished with just 292, not a particularly impressive total for a 20 year player (Wilbur Cooper in comparison had 9 20+ Win Share seasons, all consecutive). He also wasn't particularly durable with just four top 10 IP finishes, though three were first or second place. It appears he had a three year stretch as a great pitcher and a long time as merely a decent pitcher. Faber's case may come down to what stands out more - the 119 ERA+ in nearly 4100 IP, or an emphasis on Win Shares.

As for Rixey, he has a 115 ERA+ in about 4500 innings. Again, not bad. He didn't quite have the peak of Faber, but he played a higher level for longer. For example, Faber had five top 10 ERA+ finishes (twice leading the league), while Rixey had seven (three times finishing second). Rixey was also more durable, 10 times in the top 10 in IP. And while he did not have any 30 Win Share seasons (Faber had 2), he had 8 with at least 20. So his pattern seems to be a good pitcher for a long time, but never really great.

Joe Sewell probably also is worth talking about, but something tells me we'll have an easier time with him than Faber and Rixey.

Paul Wendt
02-02-2009, 09:44 AM
Faber and Rixey didn't achieve much in 1918 and 1919.

Shocker missed more than half of 1918 as played so he lost perhaps 75% of one full-length season during the two years.

Coveleski, Cooper, and Vaughn pitched straight through the war so they missed what their teams missed, about 30% of one season during two years.

Maybe the war brought Dolf Luque a second chance in the USAmerican major leagues.

I wonder about Burleigh Grimes in 1919. It was a bad season amid his peak, with innings down from 270 to 190 although the league played 10% more games. He pitched the third game of the season and won 6-1; the scores of his next three starts were 9-9, 11-9, and 7-0 with six, five, and seven days off --that is, days without starting.

Freakshow
02-02-2009, 06:28 PM
Given that this year seems pretty set, maybe we should take about some of the candidates that will become eligible next year. In particular, there are two pitchers that I think will probably require some lengthy discussion to get a handle on - Red Faber and Eppa Rixey.

Joe Sewell probably also is worth talking about, but something tells me we'll have an easier time with him than Faber and Rixey.Another noteworthy new candidate for 1938 is Rabbit Maranville (age rule).

Brad Harris
02-02-2009, 08:41 PM
Right away, that brings up the Maranville vs. Sewell argument.

Paul Wendt
02-03-2009, 06:07 AM
Mike Gonzalez of Havana played for two teams of Cuban Stars 1911-14, in the Negro Leagues as we commonly say today ('NeL' for short). Essentially he played in the major leagues 1914-32, ages 23.6 to 41.0. Beside 868 catcher games he played at least 108 times as a pinch-batter or runner and 60 fielding firstbase.

During the Cuban Stars period he played one 1912 game for the Boston Braves and he played for the NeL New York Lincoln Stars in 1916, a season he played 118 games for the St Louis Cardinals.

Did he play with Dolf Luque? According to Riley's Encyclopedia he did in 1912 and 1913

year, Mike Gonzales ; Dolf Luque
1911 Cuban Stars
1912 Cuban Stars ; Luque, Cuban Stars
1913 Long Branch Cubans ; Luque, Long Branch Cubans
1914 Cuban Stars and majors ; Luque, major leagues

Luque played in the major leagues essentially 1918-35 (ages 28-44), otherwise two games each in 1914 and 1915 for Boston NL. He was a pitcher in all 550 games with two appearances at other positions too. They did not play on the same team although Gonzalez played for four NL clubs and Luque three, after their Boston games.

Paul Wendt
02-03-2009, 06:24 AM
Clarence Mitchell was one of the grandfather spitballists who enjoyed a long major league career after 1920. He played in the majors essentially 1916-32, ages 25.1 to 41.4. Chiefly a starting pitcher, he never worked 200 innings in one season. His two pennant-winning teams used him in secondary roles; in the 1920 and 1928 World Series he worked once each, almost five and six innings in relief (one earned run).

Quinn, Faber, and Grimes remained in the majors when Mitchell retired. I suppose they were all celebrated a little more than he.

Paul Wendt
02-03-2009, 06:31 AM
Are you sure? Paul already said he intends to vote for Kelly so that would guarantee Kelly on the next ballot.
I see there is a vote for George Kelly. Now I don't feel obliged to complete a ballot although I will (with a vote for Kelly) if I make a good time for excruciating decisions.

Phish
02-03-2009, 10:02 AM
Heilmann
-Obvious reasons

Youngs
-One of those "what could have been" players. Same exact reason why I supported Joss. If he wouldn't have been diagnosed with a disease (can't remember), he would have been a sure shot HoF. He won 2 WS, had a strong five uear peak before his sickness, great feilder (of what I read), and had a great OBP%.

Freakshow
02-03-2009, 10:55 AM
Groh was elected. Bender and Leach expired. They were replaced by newbie Heilmann, returnee Pratt, and 1st-timer Youngs.

Bancroft
GJ Burns
W. Cooper
Cravath
Evers
Heilmann
Hooper
Konetchy
Mays
Pratt
Schang
Shocker
Veach
J. Wood
Youngs

mwiggins
02-03-2009, 01:59 PM
Nice to see Youngs getting more support. :applaud:

DoubleX
02-03-2009, 04:36 PM
Here's who I got for next year:

Nick Altrock
Lu Blue
Garland Braxton
Taylor Doutit
Red Faber
Lew Fonseca
Hod Ford
Bob Fothergill
Bernie Friberg
Johnny Gooch
Dolly Gray
Fred Heimach
Ray Kremer
Rabbit Maranville (Age Rule)
Val Picinich
Jack Quinn
Eppa Rixey
Harry Rice
Rosy Ryan
Joe Sewell
Sloppy Thurston

Several of these players may not end up on the ballot, I just haven't scrutinized them yet (suggestions are welcome).

It's not a terrible ballot. It's lacking a real headliner, but it has some interesting candidates worth debating, notably Faber, Maranville, Rixey, and Sewell, and some might throw Jack Quinn in there as well.

SavoyBG
02-03-2009, 05:44 PM
Nice to see Youngs getting more support. :applaud:


I have a feeling Youngs only chance will be if he gets lucky with some of his buddies ending up on the veteran's committee.:D

Freakshow
02-03-2009, 08:02 PM
Win shares for new eligibles:

Nick Altrock - already eligible in 1921
198 Lu Blue
Garland Braxton
121 Taylor Doutit
292 Red Faber
99 Lew Fonseca
107 Hod Ford
100 Bob Fothergill
104 Bernie Friberg
Johnny Gooch
128 Dolly Gray
Fred Heimach
141 Ray Kremer
302 Rabbit Maranville (Age Rule)
Val Picinich
287 Jack Quinn
315 Eppa Rixey
110 Harry Rice
Rosy Ryan
277 Joe Sewell
90 Sloppy Thurston

SavoyBG
02-03-2009, 09:16 PM
Win shares for new eligibles:

292 Red Faber
302 Rabbit Maranville (Age Rule)
287 Jack Quinn
315 Eppa Rixey
277 Joe Sewell


There's not all that many pitchers who are over 300 win shares. Rixey only 4 twenty win seasons and a career win% of just .515. Not a great peak either. Best win share season was just 26.

Faber had a stronger peak (had 37 win shares one season) and a more consistent career. Also had two ERA titles and two ERA+ titles. Rixey never led in anything that significant,, although he did lead in wins one year.

Quinn is just a long time 10% above average type of guy.

Sewell is very good, but his peak wasn't great, and his career levels are too low to be a hall of famer IMO, unless he had played a lot longer.

Maranville was an all time great fielding SS for a real long time, but never had even close to a hall of fame level offensive season, and at best may have had one hall of fame level overall season. He is 4th in career at bats behind only Cobb, Wagner and Speaker. He's first in career games played at SS, and second in assists (Dahlen). His 1914 MVP season is the greatest fielding season ever in the history of the game to this point (13.3 win shares). Win Shares makes him the gold glove SS in 1914, 1921, 1922, 1923 and 1930, and also the gold glove 2Bman in 1932 when he was over 40 years old. A truly unique player.

At this point I'm probably going to vote for Faber and Maranville, but not the others.

SavoyBG
02-03-2009, 11:56 PM
Congratulations harry !!!

Sockeye
02-04-2009, 08:53 AM
My ballot in order of most deserving

1. Harry Heilmann
2. Gavvy Cravath
3. George J Burns

just falls short

4. Harry Hooper
5. Ed Konetchy
6. Cy Williams
7. Carl Mays

DoubleX
02-04-2009, 10:10 AM
Just noting that per our many discussions early on this project, I've removed Sockeye's votes.

Sockeye
02-04-2009, 12:11 PM
I respectfully ask that my votes be counted.

Here is why I voted as I did.

Harry Heilmann:

148 OPS+
8.2 RC/G
.742 OWP
532 Batting runs
51.3 Batting wins
21 Black Ink
244 Gray Ink
56.4 HOF Standards
188.0 HOF Monitor
.309 EQA
112.9 WARP1
95.6 WARP3
356 Win Shares

All and all a very easy choice. I have him 36th on my position player list.

Gavvy Cravath:

151 OPS+
6.6 RC/G
.758 OWP
262.4 Batting runs
29.3 Batting wins
46 Black Ink
110 Gray Ink
23.0 HOF Standards (the lowest number of any HOFer I support)
49.5 HOF Monitor
.309 EQA
62.6 WARP1
49.9 WARP3
202 Win Shares

The HOF Standards, WARP, and win share numbers are lower than what I'd like. However his incredible production numbers in OPS+, OWP, & EQA are enough IMO to put him in the HOF. He should get in on his prodution over longevity. There are at least 25 players that would make my HOF beneath Cravath.

George J Burns:

114 OPS+
4.9 RC/G
.597 OWP
164.4 Batting runs
18.7 Batting wins
33 Black Ink
165 Gray Ink
27.0 HOF Standards
56.5 HOF Monitor
.277 EQA
108.1 WARP1
75.4 WARP3
290 Win shares

George J. His numbers are boarderline and a case could easily be made either way. He led the league in walks and runs scored 5 times each, played in 3 world series including the 1921 series where he led the Giants to the title by gathering 11 hits. John McGraw called him "One of the most valuable ball players that ever wore the uniform of the Giants." That's good enough for me. I'll give him the nod here.

AG2004
02-05-2009, 11:04 AM
I respectfully ask that my votes be counted.

The archives indicate that the decision to ban Sockeye from the project came in 1908, after it was decided that he was not voting in good faith. (The 1908 ballot thread provides a full discussion of the issue.)

It has been nearly three decades since Sockeye was barred from the project [and seven months in real time -- OOC]. That was so long ago that the Roosevelt in the White House was a Republican. I think that such a time period is long enough, and that Sockeye's vote should be able to count next year as long as he casts it in good faith. While I think he's underrating pitchers here, I do believe that the above ranking was a good-faith attempt to cast a vote.

For the record, here's my ballot for 1937.

George J. Burns
Wilbur Cooper
Harry Heilmann
Carl Mays