Women vs Men argument?

[Sonny Schmidt]

What's the point, women have nowhere near the athletic prowess that men do.

Show me a woman who can hit the ball like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui4Bry1L6X0


Or throw a ball like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujOu1tEr-7U&feature=related

[stejay]

whos even comparing? thats unfair to women to compare, as it is not a fair comparison. this is just a weird argument your posting here.

[StanTheMan]

whos even comparing? thats unfair to women to compare, as it is not a fair comparison. this is just a weird argument your posting here.

He's not posting an argument... just making a fool of himself. We all know that you cannot compare men with women in most sports, it is just a physical and biological fact. The most interesting one, I think, is in soccer. The Under 18 USA National Team (basically an all-star team of the best men high school players in the country who live year round and train together at the USSF Academy in Bradenton, Floriday) absolutely crushed the USA Women's National Team, yeah... the World Cup Winning team with Mia Hamm and those players. The destroyed them each time.

Many aspects of baseball (pitching velocity, outfield arm strength, bat-speed and power) are in the same boat.

Can a female pick it clean and turn a double play? Sure...

[nerfan]

In most sports- yes. But baseball doesn't require nearly as much physical ability as other sports. Jamie Moyer is an old slow tossing man with very little muscle. He won 16 games last year. Mo Vaughn weighed about 400 pounds but he was terrific. Plenty of players who aren't strong and aren't in peak physical condition are among the all-time greats. Hell, the greatest player in history was fat.

[Ex-Expo fan]

I do not remember where I read that study, but it seems that the athletic quality of female athletes seems to be evolving at a faster rate than the quality of male athletes. It may be that one day both genders could be equal.

I could see a female athlete in baseball. If women still do not have the physical ability to make powerful enough outfield throws I would put them in the infield, maybe shorstop. I don't think it would be going to far to imagine a singles hitting type player with speed and good positioning being a female. I would most certainly root for her.

[metfan13]

I do not remember where I read that study, but it seems that the athletic quality of female athletes seems to be evolving at a faster rate than the quality of male athletes. It may be that one day both genders could be equal.

I could see a female athlete in baseball. If women still do not have the physical ability to make powerful enough outfield throws I would put them in the infield, maybe shorstop. I don't think it would be going to far to imagine a singles hitting type player with speed and good positioning being a female. I would most certainly root for her.

If they don't have the arm for OF what makes you think SS will work? Throwing out major league runners? Don't think so.

[Ex-Expo fan]

I just believe that there could be a possibility that a female baseball player somewhere, sometime who exceeds all her female peers in the game would be capable of playing against major leaguers. I believe that you need a less powerful arm to play an infield position than to play an outfield position.It has also been said before in a similar thread that if a woman were ever to play in a major league game, she would be pitching. I believe you need to thow harder as a pitcher than as a shorstop.
I think shorstop could be the most probable position just for the fact that traditionally the position has been occupied by smaller, good defensive players (although I know the trend is changing, or may already have been changed). Perhaps second base could be appropriate. I do not think that range or good positioning would really be a quality that differs based on gender.
If Manon Rheaume was capable of playing an exhibition game against professional hockey players, I don't see how a woman baseball player couldn't.

[metfan13]

I just believe that there could be a possibility that a female baseball player somewhere, sometime who exceeds all her female peers in the game would be capable of playing against major leaguers. I believe that you need a less powerful arm to play an infield position than to play an outfield position.It has also been said before in a similar thread that if a woman were ever to play in a major league game, she would be pitching. I believe you need to thow harder as a pitcher than as a shorstop.
I think shorstop could be the most probable position just for the fact that traditionally the position has been occupied by smaller, good defensive players (although I know the trend is changing, or may already have been changed). Perhaps second base could be appropriate. I do not think that range or good positioning would really be a quality that differs based on gender.
If Manon Rheaume was capable of playing an exhibition game against professional hockey players, I don't see how a woman baseball player couldn't.

Exhibition games are different. Anything can be set-up in an exhibition.

And yes SS does require a very strong arm.

[Captain Cold Nose]

I have no idea what the purpose of this thread is except to further less-than-cordial arguments. Closing.

[Mattingly]

I just believe that there could be a possibility that a female baseball player somewhere, sometime who exceeds all her female peers in the game would be capable of playing against major leaguers. I believe that you need a less powerful arm to play an infield position than to play an outfield position.It has also been said before in a similar thread that if a woman were ever to play in a major league game, she would be pitching. I believe you need to thow harder as a pitcher than as a shorstop.
Which female pitchers currently play baseball, not softball? Which pitches do they throw, and how many innings do they pitch, both per game and per season? Do they pitch against men using wooden bats?

I believe that the ability to get a batter out may be far more important than velocity. Otherwise, you could likely just recruit some weightlifters or other strength athletes to pitch.

If a pitcher has nothing that day, can he/she still get the batter to chase a pitch outside of the strike zone, or dial up the big curve, that may contribute well to a pitcher's effectiveness, I believe?


I think shorstop could be the most probable position just for the fact that traditionally the position has been occupied by smaller, good defensive players (although I know the trend is changing, or may already have been changed). Perhaps second base could be appropriate. I do not think that range or good positioning would really be a quality that differs based on gender.
I believe that 1B would least require a strong arm. However, 1B defense shouldn't be overlooked, unless you want to see many hits to RF or foul balls not being caught. While a 1Bman may not need a great arm, the lefty-throwing ones are preferred. Quick reflexes, jumping highand diving hard for lines drives are also essential. Don't forget the 3-6-1 DP gem.

I would put emphasis on arm strength of SSs, since guys like Alex Rodriguex have a bazooka and a lot of lateral flexibility. He also made the ridiculous plays look undramatic, easy and routine.

I believe that the short SS such as Omar Vizquel was the norm, since they were the only ones who could make those highlight reel "webgem" athletic plays consistently. Once Cal Ripken, Jr arrived in Baltimore, the era of the 6-foot+ star SS had arrived, at least relatively recently.

When you have to turn the DP, be off balance for a hit between 3B/SS or up the middle, and still throw accurately to 1B, especially to catch a speedy leadoff hitter, I believe requires co-ordination & synchronization with the 2Bman, and a 1Bman who can still scoop up the hastily-thrown ball his way. Hence, leather being flashed on both sides.

A 2Bman needs a quick release and strong throw to 1B, and a quick soft toss to the SS covering 2B. Balls hit to shallow CF/RF also need to be tracked down.

A 3Bman also needs rapid reflexes, the ability to make barehanded plays, a long throw to 3B, home, 2B, even if the balls hit his/her way was softly hit, and the runner is going at full speed or sliding.

All of them also need to be cutoff men, so I believe that the jobs are all multi-faceted, regardless of one's gender.


If Manon Rheaume was capable of playing an exhibition game against professional hockey players, I don't see how a woman baseball player couldn't.
So who'd you have in mind as the woman? For which venue? WBC? Spring Training? A special televised exhibiton game?

Did Ms Rheaume play against NHL players in the USA or Canada? Minor Leaguers? An international pro team? Where did she play hockey before this, and after?

Thanks. :)

[Mattingly]

I have no idea what the purpose of this thread is except to further less-than-cordial arguments. Closing.
Sorry, I hadn't realized you'd closed it. I was just trying to make something out of this topic which started on an ill-advised note.

The thread starter seems like a wayward supporter of the late Bobby Riggs, who through his bragging, chest-thumping mannerism, in the end, did so much for women's tennis, you wouldn't believe it.

[Captain Cold Nose]

Sorry, I hadn't realized you'd closed it. I was just trying to make something out of this topic which started on an ill-advised note.

The thread starter seems like a wayward supporter of the late Bobby Riggs, who through his bragging, chest-thumping mannerism, in the end, did so much for women's tennis, you wouldn't believe it.

No problem. I didn't see the value of another thread basically started simply to thumb its nose at women playing baseball.

Manon Rheaume played for the NHL's Tampa Bay Lightning. She did play in some exhibition games, but didn't stick. She had issues like so many young NHL goalies (she was 20) and played a few years in the minors, notably for Las Vegas and Atlanta. She had a family, went into coaching, and is currently involved in youth hockey in the Detroit area.

Really, though, posturing and simple debate should never credibly debunk activity basically provable by activity.