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View Full Version : All Star Game - some thoughts and debates



9RoyHobbsRF
06-17-2009, 05:04 PM
I have seen various things said about the all-star game and related items on this and other sites (there were many on the "what would you do as commissioner" thread here on BB Fever) and I have to throw some things out there

I am not trying to start arguments or point fingers but some of the logic or stated facts are at the least debatable

ITEM 1) "The all-star game is intended for players who had the best first halves"

my reaction is really?

rebuttal 1: did the creator of the all-star game back in 1933 say I want to create a game for the fans to see the best first half players? I doubt it. Is there a written stipulation in an all-star game "charter" that says that the all-star game is intended for players who had the best first halves?

rebuttal 2: did the game "evolve" into that intention today? when did the change take place? was it gradual? recent? or just some fans take? you have an established star say a Brooks Robinson who hits in the first half .275 with 9 HR. another player comes up and has a hot few weeks and hits .285 with 12 home runs. It can be argued the other player had a better first half, I would rather see Brooks in the all-star game, not even a close decision for me.

rebuttal 3: player "A" plays in a "cold" weather city, that city heats up in the summer, June/July/August and that's when he piles up his offesnive numbers. Player "B" plays in a "warm" weather city and can get better offensive numbers "earlier" due to hotter weather earlier and when you compare the two players "B" has better first half stats than "A", is it fair for player "A" to be excluded?

rebuttal 4: how/when do you honor a player who has a great second half of the season? in last year's all-star game? impossible! in next year's all-star game? well what if he doesn't have a big first half? how do you account for a player with this type of second half production? (off the top of my head I am thinking Bill White 1964 as an example).

ITEM 2) these are often combined in comments by the same person... "don't let the all-star game decide HFA in the world series because it is an exhibition game" and "take the voting away from the fans"

rebuttal (pretty obvious): if it is an exhibition and should not have any attached results/importance, why would it make sense to take the fans out of the voting? I would say that it is pretty much a definition of exhibition to be for the fans

and then there are some semantics issues

is an all-star game a game with a collection of stars? or a game with a collection of all-stars? I always found it make more sense (in my George Carlin/Gallagher way) that a player is not an all-star, he is a star and the misdummer game is an all-star game, which is a collection of stars. Why do we need the extra "all", he can make the all-star team/game, but he is a star, not an all-star. (sorry for this one, just my pet peeve)

Second Base Coach
06-17-2009, 06:04 PM
Don't look too deeply into this. The game was for the fans. It still is. The whole home field advantage thing is to encourage managers to, well, manage to win the game. Ties are no longer possible, which gets Uncle Bud off the hook as he no longer has to make tough decisions about exhibition games.

Zoso
06-17-2009, 06:26 PM
You can't have it decide the outcome of the season more or less while also having it be a popularity contest with 6 Yankees and 7 Red Sox (puke). Then you have a token Pirate on there because no one can be left out.

It's not an exhibition if it means something, so I don't know how that can be any kind of rebuttal. Just take it out of the fans' hands. Fans are stupid. Especially on the coasts.

9RoyHobbsRF
06-17-2009, 06:28 PM
You can't have it decide the outcome of the season more or less while also having it be a popularity contest with 6 Yankees and 7 Red Sox (puke). Then you have a token Pirate on there because no one can be left out.

It's not an exhibition if it means something, so I don't know how that can be any kind of rebuttal. Just take it out of the fans' hands. Fans are stupid. Especially on the coasts.

but you missed the point

people are crying out to END the HFA for the WS and then in almost the same breath, say take the voting out of the fans hands

Zoso
06-17-2009, 06:40 PM
If the game means nothing, then who gives a rat's ass who's in the game? Let it be a democracy where the mindless masses vote in Manny and Jetah and Nomah or whoever the hell plays for Boston these days.

I have a question: what if the game is rained out in the 4th? Then who gets HFA?

Second Base Coach
06-17-2009, 08:25 PM
Tradition. Let's not forget that means more to baseball than any other sport. They will never take it completely away from the fans, as they always liked punching those little squares and were the inventors of the original hanging chad.

If you are looking for a meaningless game, check out the NFL Pro Bowl. There, the players and coaches decide who gets to be named, the players get to decide if they want to opt out, and the league goes around begging players to make the trip. They beg players fans have never heard of... makes me wonder if there are large bonuses for making the Pro Bowl Squad. I am betting no, and if not, then you have a meaningless game.

They're moving it away from Hawaii soon aren't they??

The fans living on the 50th state must be up in arms. :grouchy

ItsOnlyGil
06-18-2009, 10:19 AM
imo -
the voting for the allstar game should occur after the World Series.
The players from WS teams should be excluded from participation in either the NL or AL allstar teams.
The two WS teams should be combined to form a third allstar team which competes with the remainder NL and AL enterents.
Therefore there would be:
- the WS allstars,
- the NL allstars (comprising selections which do not include the NL pennant winner),
- the AL allstars (comprising selections which do not include the AL pennant winner).

:lookitup

PVNICK
06-18-2009, 10:31 AM
I think interleague play destroyed much of the charisma of the ASG. The HR Derby and related stuff is cool, don't get me wrong, but again it takes away from the focus being entirely on the ASG. :twocents: