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Got a couple 14u kids (very good athletes and players) who swing hard and have a bounce back with the bat in the opposite direction after their swing. In other words, the arm muscles must not relax after the swing, because they are unable to hold their finish (and the bat), instead they bounce back and counter rotate at the end of their swing. Getting the picture? ANybody dealt with this and have a solution.
SC
Is this golf? What is the expectation of holding the finish? These couple of kids it would be safe to say keep both hands on the bat for the duration of the swing/follow-through?
I don't care if they hold the finish necessarily, just don't see any high level swings that bouncing back like their bat hit a rubber wall behind them.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Uncoach
SC
It almost sounds like a lot of kids at the lowest levels who use ultra-light bats. Unless they perform significantly worse than the other players, I don’t see what the issue is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swing Coach
right. there are "extension drills" like hitting through a basketball but usually you don't need that stuff and the problem resolves by itself if the bats get heavier.Quote:
Originally Posted by scorekeeper
I have seen hitters do this but more in an attempt to get back a balance issue and jumpstart a run down the line. In both issues full extension was not achieved and weak hit ball was a result. Sometimes making a play close at first and convincing the kid that an even better jump was needed. I unfortunately did not work with these kids, just seen on other teams. Would suggest making sure stride foot is planted and extension is achieved before running.
Swing, do you have a clip??? I'm having a hard time visualizing what you describe. I've seen this with poor athletes.... What is the purpose of holding the swing?Quote:
Originally Posted by Swing Coach
You see this a lot in MLB. Derek Jeter comes to mind. See it a lot with power hitters who "flip" the bat especially when they hit a no-doubter.
That is a good reason to let the top hand off the bat at the end of the follow through. It should also give the batter a bit more power since his extension is greater.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swing Coach
But I would do some video of these kids batting (slowed down to at least 50%) and compare to MLB hitters swing analysis.
Since you are the one who recommended The Science of Hitting in a different thread, if I could offer a tip to you, you may want to look at images of Ted Williams. He keeps both hands on the bat all the way through the swing to finish. The greatest ever. TH letting go looks pretty and it's just a personal style. As much power as Williams had, it's not an indication that keeping both hands on the bat robs hitters of power let alone getting good extension, however much extension helps once the ball leaves the bat.Quote:
Originally Posted by tradosaurus
Yes, I remember Ted's swing. I was just offering something that would help the kids from bouncing back with the bat.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Uncoach
Either way is fine as can be attested by varying techniques of MLB hitters. Pujols and many others takes their top hands off. Other great hitters in the game don't.
How is something that happens after contact going to help through contact?Quote:
Originally Posted by tradosaurus
The problem with a one-handed finish is that, on rare occasions, it can lead to problems in the front of the shoulder on the bottom hand arm.
Why don't you call Manny Ramirez and Albert Pujols and ask him that question. :laughQuote:
Originally Posted by Chris O'Leary
http://youtu.be/4e7p6nvA6po Look at 1:55 mark
http://youtu.be/W7CUMrsMP5A Look at 1:55 mark.
http://youtu.be/NrpyBrbu8co homerun derby 2011. Looks like even the powerhitters take their top hand off at end.
This is the part of your post that I was discussing.
Kinsler is in the 30/30 club and keeps both hands on the bat all the way through. Now between Williams losing almost 5 seasons to wartime service and hitting 521 HRs, Dimaggio and now Kinsler, I'd suggest that your original premise that some one-handed release "should also give the batter a bit more power since his extension is greater" doesn't add up.Quote:
It should also give the batter a bit more power since his extension is greater.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YAJCRz2H1o
Sure it adds up! Albert Pujols could still hit homeruns without a one hand release.
But the question is why would he? :laugh
The point is there is no right or wrong here. Although it is interesting that all the guys in the homerun derby have top hand release after the swing.
This topic is about bounce after the swing. Kind of hard to bounce with the top hand release after swing. :nod:
You still aren't addressing what you posted. I'll refresh your memory from one post above even. "That is a good reason to let the top hand off the bat at the end of the follow through. It should also give the batter a bit more power since his extension is greater." It doesn't give anyone any more power. As for all the guys in the HR Derby letting go with TH, that's also demonstrably false. Bonds did it sometimes and sometimes not. Sometimes he would wait until the bat was far behind him and the swing was essentially decelerated before letting go with TH.Quote:
Originally Posted by tradosaurus
delete duped post please
This discussion would go a lot smoother if you would just admit that I'm right. :laugh
But let me point you to the premier expert in the field, Charlie Lau (there will be a test):
Quote:
My father's trademark was letting go of the top hand after impact. But I do not isolate it in that fashion. I teach my students to utilize the four Lau Laws that will make them great hitters, and that if they do it correctly, they will have to let go with the top hand after impact!
When Mark McGwire shattered Roger Mans' single-season homerun record, The Sporting News ran a story on the changes that McGwire had made in his swing. It pointed out that the turning point in McGwire's rise from inconsistent slugger to home-run legend occurred when he adopted my father's one-hand extension principle.
Some baseball people put it this way: McGwire became a great power hitter when he began to release his top hand after impact. The truth is that he became a great hitter when he adopted the "four secrets to the swing."
A top-hand release is the result of a maximum lead-arm extension and a high finish. Amazingly, the knock on this method of releasing the top hand (that my father suggested more than 20 years ago) was that it reduced the hitter's power.
Tony LaRussa, McGwire's manager with the Cardinals, disputed the old-school hitting coaches who claimed that my father's methods did nothing but promote soft singles to the opposite field.
The truth, LaRussa argued, was that my father taught line-drive hitters to use the whole park, thus making them more productive.
When my father instructed a true home-run hitter like a Greg Luzinski or a Carlton Fisk or a Harold Baines, he taught them to use a slight uppercut with a full extension. LaRussa, noting the distinguished home-run success of McGwire, Sammy Sosa, and Ken Griffey Jr. the past few years, recently said, "A lot of us who are tremendous fans of Charley Lau know that he's up there smiling because there's a certain amount of vindication for that style of hitting he taught."
You have only to look around the major leagues to see that a top-hand release is a great benefit, not a deterrent to a player's power production. The list of top-hand devotees is impressive and long. Besides the aforementioned three, you can add such sluggers as Juan Gonzalez, Tino Martinez, Fred McGriff, Manny Ramirez, Dante Bichette, Tony Clark, Andres Galarraga, Frank Thomas, Jim Edmonds, David Justice, Shawn Green, and Todd Walker.
And that's just a small sampling. What these players have in common is that they all can hit more than 30 home runs a season.
Lau's logic on this is horribly flawed.Quote:
Originally Posted by tradosaurus
Wow!! That is a bold statement. How is it flawed? I know this is getting off topic but I would like to hear this explanation. Are you saying that releasing the top hand is flawed? The conclusion of why it occurs is flawed?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris O'Leary
"Top hand release" has absolutely nothing to do with home run power.
Many HR hitters wear Phiten necklaces also.
They also wear belts.Quote:
Originally Posted by songtitle
You're right. [/corporate yes man]Quote:
Originally Posted by tradosaurus
Because it happens after contact, there's no way that releasing the top hand can contribute to power.Quote:
Originally Posted by Onebigwhitevan
There's also the issue, and as I mentioned above, that it can slightly increase one's injury risk. This is why Hanley Ramirez keeps hurting his shoulder.
http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/..._090149_80.jpg
Uh oh! Stop the presses.
We must warn all those power hitters in the MLB (ie, the majority of them) that top hand release after contact is dangerous and does nothing toward generating more power.
Wow! I'm so glad I've been corrected now because I sure wouldn't want my son to hit like Albert Pujols! :laugh