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Thread: To Post Or Not To Post??

  1. #21
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    Mud,

    NO. How do you intend to keep the posting up to date? Are you able to keep them up to date? Are you able to keep them up to date? You see, I know a team that posts their stats on line and did so for about half of a season. Posted fall stats that were absolutely bogus. Then, stopped. Yet, those stats are still on line and do not reflect player success at all.

    What about the level of play? Say you post John's stats and you play a tough schedule. His stats will suffer some due to the quality of play. Do the colleges know the level of play? If not, John's chances are diminished.

    Instead, have John list the teams he is interested in and, as the coach, provide any insights to schedule and John's performance.


    Just my 2 cents. With today's economy really worth about nothing.
    Granny said Sonny stick to your guns if you believe in something no matter what. Because it's better to be hated for who you are than to be loved for who you're not.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by tg643 View Post
    TG-- I follow the careers of those two young men. But I don't know why anybody would be expected to have heard of them.

    It was directed at Jake since he's in CT. Are you?
    TG, I do not follow every pro prospect that comes from CT, at least not any more - I've been out of coaching for over a year. There have been a number of CT players make it to the pros. Trinity, UCONN, Eastern, etc all have pretty good programs.
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  3. #23
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    Casali and Esposito are probably the two best prospects from CT. They're both starting for Vanderbilt. Casali has had some reocurring arm problems which put his future as a catcher in question. He played a lot of 1b and DH when he was healthy. With Giobbi (Mariners) graduated Casali will get another chance to secure the position. Esposito is a stud. Without having seen any MLB scouting reports I'd guess he's a top ten rounds prospect.

  4. #24
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    Gentlemen,

    Thank you all so much for your thoughtful contributions; you really gave me some excellent things to think about, reevaluate, and make a decision from there. While I can't respond to all of your thoughts, I'll try to answer some of the questions you posted and give my general thoughts of how I may proceed.

    12U and Younger
    Since I doubt I'll have any of the 12's and/or under again (or until if/when grand-kids show up), I'll only share my agreement with those, that from my previous experience with those younger age levels, IMO, releasing stats is more of a distraction and hindrance than benefit for most all concerned for the numerous reasons that were listed.
    1. Quality/reliability of stats that are being collected by volunteer SKers.
    2. Kids needing to focus on game and not stats.
    3. Embarrassment and selfishness.
    4. They don't track, what you as a coach are looking for . . . "Quality" ABs.
    5. They don't encourage the focus on the "process" and the "team" aspect.
    6. Give opposing teams "scouting reports" for playoffs, and if Internet based, All-Star play.

    Middle School (12 - 14)
    I never really coached an official "Middle School" team, so I can't really address that, but with the TB teams I had at that age level; I found that with all of the games we played, and the up and down quality of the players on those teams, stats were not really necessary, as we were more of a tournament/academy team and not an actual "league" team were standings and stat were accumulated over a longer "season".

    Our lineups changed frequently with a new tournament every weekend, or at least every other . . . with multiple games on those weekends . . . so innings played, positions played, and ABs were never really a problem with the players or PARENTS. Most, eventually settled in with their comfort zones whether in the field or in the batting order, and stats seemed pretty irrelevant . . .

    High School
    Now this is level that interested me the most for obvious reasons . . . and I'm very pleased that I asked the question and really appreciate the responses that I received . . . some definitely touched on areas that I hadn't previously even considered . . . again, excellent stuff.

    Things I will be thinking about and/or reevaluating:
    1. The possible(?) need to post stats for scouts and recruiters.
    2. What "stats" are scouts and recruiters actually looking for?
    3. Posting the "official" stats versus having a "parent's" stats floating around.
    4. The availability (or lack there of), of a knowledgeable and qualified scorer (SK, the offer still stands )
    5. Give a true reading to the players of the "looks" productive guys versus the actual "are" productive guys.
    6. The variance of level of competition by school size and geographic areas, and how players "truly" compare to others with thus, "inflated" stats.

    At the moment
    So, with all things posted, I'm currently leaning towards staying with what I'm currently doing and not posting team stats, but not for the reasons some may think.

    While I'm of the opinion that at this level, the players are of an age and maturity that I believe posting stats would be more of a value to them and all parties involved versus a hindrance. . . our method of collecting, tabulating, and posting is such that I don't feel that the accuracy of the stats would be of the quality necessary for posting accurately . . . especially pitching stats. The reason: Currently, our scorebook is kept by one of the players on the bench, not always the same one, and most often one looking to take a current players position; thus consistency, accuracy, and fairness, are IMO, a bit compromised.

    Like most coaches, after the game I go over the scorebook with my assistant coach . . . there are numerous times where we look at an AB and have to redo the "single" that was booted by the RF with the runner ending up at third, that was scored a "triple. Or have to change the "E5" of the sizzling scorcher, that took one short hop bounce and dang nearly took the third baseman's ear off, to a "1B".

    These are a couple of examples, as well as how RBI's are not typically marked correctly . . . and expecting them to assign ERs, versus UERs correctly is virtually impossible. So all-in-all, while I do see some value in letting the players see the stats more frequently, I don't wish to have to put in all the extra work to do so . . . unless I can find a reliable, regular, non-player scorekeeper available for the season.

    NOTE: I recently purchased the 6-4-3 Baseball Scoring App for my Motorola Droid phone (that was created/developed by BBF member "blumer" who posts here) and have found it to be just outstanding with it's ease of use and its MANY features (pitch counts and locations, spray charts, game summary, season long stats accumulation . . . ) and hopefully will be able to find a parent or student volunteer "scorer", who is willing to learn the program (which is really quite easy), and then commit to following us to EVERY game . . . probably easier said than done.

    Thanks again to all for your insight and help . . . if someone else still have something that they do to improve their stats gathering, or have some more positives to posting team stats regularly . . . please jump in and continue the thread, I'm always looking to learn and to find my next hidden advantage.

    mud -
    Last edited by mudvnine; 09-16-2010 at 11:01 PM.

  5. #25
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    The possible(?) need to post stats for scouts and recruiters.
    What "stats" are scouts and recruiters actually looking for?


    My son has been out all summer and fall with an injury. But some college coaches have inquired about him to his travel coach and high school coach. Neither coach told my son they were asked about baseball stats. Stats are subjective to the competition. They asked verification of his sixty time, throwing velocity, height and weight. At one point they asked for grades and sats. Those are now officially on the NCAA Clearinghouse site. The other questions asked since both coaches know the game are, do you believe he can succeed at this level (the college in question) and how does he project as a player over the next couple of years. Since my son is injured the college coaches asked for a mechanics video. But they still want to see him workout in person this winter.

  6. #26
    MudV posted: Thank you all so much for your thoughtful contributions; you really gave me some excellent things to think about, reevaluate, and make a decision from there. While I can't respond to all of your thoughts, I'll try to answer some of the questions you posted and give my general thoughts of how I may proceed.
    Mud, nice work on summing up the various schools of thought into one comprehensive post. Often threads will peter out and there won't be any clear compilation of the ideas contributed, so I fear that few are able to learn much from those threads. This post was a big help. (Jake .... I'm sensing moderator material here.....)

    One additional thought, though. "Posting stats" is not necessarily an either/or -- i.e., yes/no -- decision. You can post stats some place that college recruiters and parents "in the know" might find them, which is a far cry from handing them out to players at practice (where they're likely to be distracted). Or you might give a copy to parents who request them and whose judgment you trust, with the caveat that they should not allow their kid to pore over it and further disseminate it to his teammates.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ursa Major View Post
    (Jake .... I'm sensing moderator material here.....)
    Mud, nice job summarizing...
    "He who dares to teach, must never cease to learn."
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  8. #28
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    Mud,

    I guess I missed the the high school portion of the question. I am in favor of posting HS stats since they are used for various post season awards. Typically, in most areas, they also have some "players to watch" articles at the beginning of a HS season as well and so, the players who make those lists benefit. You still have the typical problems with scoring and that can't be helped. Believe me, Scorekeeper and I have had more than one or two conversations about scoring/stats. Scorekeeper promotes the use of one website per stats for HS players and suggest that many schools and conferences use that site. In our area, the St. Louis Post Dispatch provides a site which HS coaches use. I like this site and so, include the url for it to any perspective college coaches. Note - yes, I understand that colleges do place little value on stats since they don't know the level of competition. As a way of demonstrating the type of info found on the site our HS uses and, as a way of posting my kid's stats so that any coach looking in can see them, here is the site:

    http://stlhighschoolsports.com/sport...overall266.php


    Mud et. al, I don't know that any college coach has ever gone to this site to check out stats. I do know that with my baseball boys, I was able to get a lot of them in to college. So, I'm assuming that college coaches used the site.
    Granny said Sonny stick to your guns if you believe in something no matter what. Because it's better to be hated for who you are than to be loved for who you're not.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harley View Post
    I've always put stats on our LL team's website. It shows BA, OBP, SLG, ERA, and WHIP. I also kept a current paper copy with me at the games in case someone asked why they were batting at a certain spot in the order or why they were not pitching that game.

    The only negative was that when we went into the All-Star playoffs, the opposing managers knew our players a little too well. In the first inning, I saw them moving their outfielders up and back depending on our batter's SLG.
    To me, that’s a good description of how stats should be used. They’re nothing more than a tool, like a bat or a rake, and there’s no need to hide them, unless there’s some kind of hanky panky goin’ on.

    When you noticed the opposing manager moving his defense, are you sure it was because of the stats you made public, or could it have been information based on scouting or other things? But no matter what, did you notice any of your hitters getting “robbed” because of special positioning of the fielders as opposed to what would have been “normal” for any batter?
    The pitcher who’s afraid to throw strikes, will soon be standing in the shower with the hitter who's afraid to swing.

  10. #30
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    Because this topic is so close to my heart, I can’t help but make a couple comments.

    As usual, one of my “hot button” items has been thrown around here a bit, so I want to make another plea for anyone to define it. What is a quality at bat? One of the reasons no scorekeeper tracks it, is because there is nothing even close to a universally accepted definition, any more than there’s one for who the “best” hitter on a team is.

    To me, those are the kinds of things that cause the most angst among everyone. A coach says the best hitter should bat 3rd, then can’t define how that’ll be determined, or his definition changes day to day. Then when called on it by some parent, when they won’t accept the explanation of “gut” feelings or deep baseball understanding, they’re automatically put in the PITA parent category.

    Another one is the PERCEPTION that the players go gaga over the stats, then turn into selfish and greedy players who sacrifice the team for their personal gain. Sorry guys, but I can’t think of a more closed minded piece of baseball dogma than that. It isn’t bad enough that its based purely on the feelings of a coach, but I don’t know there’s any way to actually prove it if it was true! What are the symptoms of a player totally caught up in his stats anyway? Maybe I’m just not smart enough to have picked up on them, Tell me so I can look for it.

    I’ve always posted the stats for the teams I score for, from the LLI Minors team to the JUCO team my boy played on, and every team in between. Here’s the long and short of it.

    From the coach’s standpoint, most don’t look at much of anything other than the old tried and true numbers they were judged by when they were playing. But almost every coach believes he has the secret answer in some stat or group of stats he relies heavily on.

    From the player’s standpoint, I’d say that maybe a quarter of all the players admitted to even looking at the stats, but that’s a misleading number. Why? Because first of all, there’s no reason for ALL the players to look. A pure sub or mop up only pitcher isn’t going to look at his numbers for any reason other than everyone likes to see their name in print! That eliminates at least a fourth of all the players on a 16 player team, and more than that on teams with bigger rosters.

    Of the position players and hitters, the only players that would have any reason to get all uppity about their numbers are the top players, and they don’t need to see the numbers to know they’re in that top category. There are enough people stroking them so they know how good they are perceived to be without the stats. The stats only confirm that in their minds, and it’s the same with the pitchers.

    The thing is though, whether or not the stats are posted, the players all know, or at least think they know their position in the pecking order. So what happens by keeping them secret, is only a matter of them having a perception based on some kind of evidence, or on a “feeling”.

    And when the kids get older as in HS, how foolish is it for a coach to believe his players aren’t gonna look in places like MaxPreps, that site CB mentioned, or a thousand more like it to see how their peers are doing? It only natural for people to want to know how they measure up. But when a kid looks and sees another leading the state with 10 HRs, it doesn’t sit very well knowing they have 12 but their coach won’t allow them to have that tiny bit of celebrity.

    But where amateur baseball stats mean the most, is where they actually have the least to do with the game. It’s the parents who care! They’re the ones who want to see their kid’s name in print. They’re the ones who want bragging rights in the stands and at work. They’re the ones who tell the visiting recruiter how their boy led every team in hits from LL Minors to HSV! IOW, it’s a tool that allows the parents to get a little more return on his very substantial investment!

    I can’t tell what ALL scouts do or don’t do, but I do know that at least some look at every available source to get players on their radar and to see how the one’s they know about are doing. Do I believe the coach of a small DIII or NAIA school in the mid Atlantic part of the country are gonna be looking at Seattle’s prep stats to see who they should go visit? Not hardly. But I know for sure that Ohio State looks at MaxPreps for football, baseball, basketball, and softball scholarship candidates, because I’ve talked to the AD’s assistant there who does the looking. You can pretty much bet they aren’t the only ones too.

    So what does it boil down to? Pretty much what I say about everything, and that Mud fairly well pointed out. The situation determines everything. Where Mud wouldn’t want a snowball fight single to be scored a triple just because that’s where the runner happened to end up, others don’t care. So all the time he spends trying to make sure the data is a valid as possible is commendable, others just post whatever numbers come up, and those who refuse to take the time but want valid data, just won’t post them at all.

    Everything depends on the situation!
    The pitcher who’s afraid to throw strikes, will soon be standing in the shower with the hitter who's afraid to swing.

  11. #31
    What's funny is when parents rattle off their kids' outrageous stats. I always say that my son hit a couple hundred points lower and watch their reaction. You can literally see into their minds as they're thinking back on what they called "hits."
    There are two kinds of losers.....Those that don't do what they are told, and those that do only what they are told.

  12. #32
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    I never hear MaxPreps mentioned in my part of the country. If not for discussion boards I wouldn't know it exists. The newspapers and conference websites don't list stats until the end of the season. All we see is standings. So no one is whining their name isn't in the paper. If a player wants his name in the paper help win a game or be player of the week. The only public recognition of individual stats is if a writer puts them in an article on a game or about a player.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by scorekeeper View Post
    .
    Another one is the PERCEPTION that the players go gaga over the stats, then turn into selfish and greedy players
    Per usual, you exaggerated an opposing viewpoint: "selfish and greedy players."
    But, without doubt, posting stats makes players more self-conscious.
    It's not a question whether this exists or not.
    It's just a question as to what degree it exists on any particular team.
    Good coaching attempts to minimize it, and attempts to maximize team-oriented players despite the fact that baseball is essentially an individual sport.
    No data.
    Last edited by skipper5; 09-17-2010 at 02:12 PM.
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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by skipper5 View Post
    Per usual, you exaggerated an opposing viewpoint: "selfish and greedy players."
    But, without doubt, posting stats makes players more self-conscious.
    It's not a question whether this exists or not.
    It's just a question as to what degree it exists on any particular team.
    Good coaching attempts to minimize it, and attempts to maximize team-oriented players despite the fact that baseball is essentially an individual sport.
    No data.
    How is it that that’s an exaggeration? If the big worry isn’t that the players will see the stats and turn their interests to themselves rather than their team, what’s the big worry? Perhaps you wouldn’t call a player who did that selfish and greedy, but I sure would.

    Talk about at least possible exaggeration! You’re saying that every player on every team where the stats are posted is more self conscious about them then if they weren’t, and the implication then, is that in every case it has a negative effect on the team. That is one very big statement.

    Perhaps you’d like to explain how it is that at any degree its necessarily a “bad” thing that players are conscious of their numbers. What exactly is it that they do or don’t do that hurts the team? Do they not try hard enough? Do they sabotage other players to make themselves look better?

    I’ve heard this argument so many times, its become an indelible part of baseball dogma, but I honestly have very seldom seen anyone do anything other than opine about how players who even think about their own stats are cancers on the team and cause irreparable damage to the team chemistry.

    The one thing you said that is rock solid truth, is that baseball is in fact, essentially an individual sport. And more than that, its one that at every turn encourages stats as a way to measure players. It is without a doubt the sport hat drowns all others in a bath of metrics that go back well over 100 years! I do understand why people THINK it’s a bad thing, but where’s the beef?
    The pitcher who’s afraid to throw strikes, will soon be standing in the shower with the hitter who's afraid to swing.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by scorekeeper View Post
    Because this topic is so close to my heart, I can’t help but make a couple comments.

    As usual, one of my “hot button” items has been thrown around here a bit, so I want to make another plea for anyone to define it. What is a quality at bat? One of the reasons no scorekeeper tracks it, is because there is nothing even close to a universally accepted definition, any more than there’s one for who the “best” hitter on a team is.
    The coach knows what a quality at bat is. Posted traditional stats skew the concept so that a kid doesn't even care about "quality at bat".
    To me, those are the kinds of things that cause the most angst among everyone. A coach says the best hitter should bat 3rd, then can’t define how that’ll be determined, or his definition changes day to day. Then when called on it by some parent, when they won’t accept the explanation of “gut” feelings or deep baseball understanding, they’re automatically put in the PITA parent category.

    Another one is the PERCEPTION that the players go gaga over the stats, then turn into selfish and greedy players who sacrifice the team for their personal gain. Sorry guys, but I can’t think of a more closed minded piece of baseball dogma than that. It isn’t bad enough that its based purely on the feelings of a coach, but I don’t know there’s any way to actually prove it if it was true! What are the symptoms of a player totally caught up in his stats anyway? Maybe I’m just not smart enough to have picked up on them, Tell me so I can look for it.
    They do gaga over stats. But they don't go gaga over moving a runner to 3rd, backing up the proper base,etc
    I’ve always posted the stats for the teams I score for, from the LLI Minors team to the JUCO team my boy played on, and every team in between. Here’s the long and short of it.

    From the coach’s standpoint, most don’t look at much of anything other than the old tried and true numbers they were judged by when they were playing. But almost every coach believes he has the secret answer in some stat or group of stats he relies heavily on.
    A coach doesn't need any stats to know what's going on.
    From the player’s standpoint, I’d say that maybe a quarter of all the players admitted to even looking at the stats, but that’s a misleading number. Why? Because first of all, there’s no reason for ALL the players to look. A pure sub or mop up only pitcher isn’t going to look at his numbers for any reason other than everyone likes to see their name in print! That eliminates at least a fourth of all the players on a 16 player team, and more than that on teams with bigger rosters.
    They all look at the stats. Every last one of them.
    Of the position players and hitters, the only players that would have any reason to get all uppity about their numbers are the top players, and they don’t need to see the numbers to know they’re in that top category. There are enough people stroking them so they know how good they are perceived to be without the stats. The stats only confirm that in their minds, and it’s the same with the pitchers.

    The thing is though, whether or not the stats are posted, the players all know, or at least think they know their position in the pecking order. So what happens by keeping them secret, is only a matter of them having a perception based on some kind of evidence, or on a “feeling”.

    And when the kids get older as in HS, how foolish is it for a coach to believe his players aren’t gonna look in places like MaxPreps, that site CB mentioned, or a thousand more like it to see how their peers are doing? It only natural for people to want to know how they measure up. But when a kid looks and sees another leading the state with 10 HRs, it doesn’t sit very well knowing they have 12 but their coach won’t allow them to have that tiny bit of celebrity.
    Tough.
    But where amateur baseball stats mean the most, is where they actually have the least to do with the game. It’s the parents who care! They’re the ones who want to see their kid’s name in print. They’re the ones who want bragging rights in the stands and at work. They’re the ones who tell the visiting recruiter how their boy led every team in hits from LL Minors to HSV! IOW, it’s a tool that allows the parents to get a little more return on his very substantial investment!
    They are the ones who get mad at the coach for yelling at their kid for missing signals-and then yell at you when they think an error is a hit,.....Return on investment? Oh, brother!
    I can’t tell what ALL scouts do or don’t do, but I do know that at least some look at every available source to get players on their radar and to see how the one’s they know about are doing. Do I believe the coach of a small DIII or NAIA school in the mid Atlantic part of the country are gonna be looking at Seattle’s prep stats to see who they should go visit? Not hardly. But I know for sure that Ohio State looks at MaxPreps for football, baseball, basketball, and softball scholarship candidates, because I’ve talked to the AD’s assistant there who does the looking. You can pretty much bet they aren’t the only ones too.
    OSU's assistant to the AD? That proves it.
    So what does it boil down to? Pretty much what I say about everything, and that Mud fairly well pointed out. The situation determines everything. Where Mud wouldn’t want a snowball fight single to be scored a triple just because that’s where the runner happened to end up, others don’t care. So all the time he spends trying to make sure the data is a valid as possible is commendable, others just post whatever numbers come up, and those who refuse to take the time but want valid data, just won’t post them at all.

    Everything depends on the situation!
    Overall, you are just way off on this one.
    Last edited by omg; 09-17-2010 at 04:31 PM.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by omg View Post
    Overall, you are just way off on this one.
    Why? Because you don’t agree, or that there is some kind of proof that says I’m wrong? I’ll accept that your opinion and mine are different. And I’ll accept that if you have some kind of proof I’m not aware and allow me the opportunity to educate myself, I might be at least partially in error. But other than that, just saying I’m wrong doesn’t make it so, anymore than me saying you’re wrong.

    Really. Why is it so difficult to admit that I might be right about anything I said?
    The pitcher who’s afraid to throw strikes, will soon be standing in the shower with the hitter who's afraid to swing.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by scorekeeper View Post
    Why? Because you don’t agree, or that there is some kind of proof that says I’m wrong? I’ll accept that your opinion and mine are different. And I’ll accept that if you have some kind of proof I’m not aware and allow me the opportunity to educate myself, I might be at least partially in error. But other than that, just saying I’m wrong doesn’t make it so, anymore than me saying you’re wrong.

    Really. Why is it so difficult to admit that I might be right about anything I said?
    I thought I stated why with the bold print sentences. Anyways, this is not the type of thing that can be "proved" so we don't need to go round and round. You're right, it's just my opinion, and really, more people think like you on this topic than me.

    Just about everyone loves stats. Stats are fun. They are like crossword puzzles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by omg View Post
    I thought I stated why with the bold print sentences. Anyways, this is not the type of thing that can be "proved" so we don't need to go round and round. You're right, it's just my opinion, and really, more people think like you on this topic than me.

    Just about everyone loves stats. Stats are fun. They are like crossword puzzles.
    To tell the truth, I didn’t even notice the bold stuck in with all the quoted stuff. I apologize because I didn’t intentionally ignore anything you said. I’ll look at it again and attempt to respond.

    Quote Originally Posted by omg View Post
    The coach knows what a quality at bat is. Posted traditional stats skew the concept so that a kid doesn't even care about "quality at bat".
    I’ll accept that the coach knows what HE believes a QAB is. So if that’s true, why can’t they define it so I can understand it? I’m not the sharpest tack in the box, but I really do believe I could understand a baseball concept just as good or better than any youth player. So if I don’t understand it, what makes you believe the kids are? Of course if its defined as just hitting the ball hard, that’s awfully simplistic for what we’re talking about here. In order to be a “better” metric than even the “normal” stats, it has to measure something.

    They do gaga over stats. But they don't go gaga over moving a runner to 3rd, backing up the proper base,etc
    Sorry, but that doesn’t make sense to me, so I’ve got to take a stab and hope I’m correct. If I’m not, let me know and I’ll try again.

    I’m guessing you’re attempting to show the symptoms of a player totally caught up in his stats, and in doing that you’re saying the player will look at the numbers to the exclusion of any accepted good fundamental things players should do, such as backing up properly, or I’m assuming hitting behind a runner to move him over 3rd.

    Let me ask you this. In the stats you keep as a coach, do you track moving runners over, and not just to 3rd, but to any base at all? Also, do you track how the fielders back up on plays?

    I don’t track the backing up on plays for a couple reasons. #1 is, no coach has ever asked me to do it, and #2 its not something I feel any human being could do very accurately. I’m sure I could get at least a few of the players positions on any given play, but there’s just no way I could get them all. If you can, you have my respect, and I’d love to see an example of that metric. I do track moving runners however. Not only do I find it pretty easy to do, I think its an outstanding metric, much better than RBIS or BARISP, and its in every stat package I post.

    So, if you find players who you don’t feel are conscious enough of those things and likely others and you don’t track them, who’s fault it that? No one twists a coach’s arm to tell him which stats he has to show. I like runs produced which is a total of RBIs and Runs Scored, Moving Runners Up, Defensive stats that include showing each player’s numbers by position and as an individual, Pitching stats that show Pitches Per inning and batter batters per inning, pitches per base runner, pitches per BB, etc., and many other metrics as well. In fact, I’d be tickled to death if my coach asked me to stop doing most of the old stand by stats, because I don’t believe many are very good at all.

    A coach doesn't need any stats to know what's going on.
    Sorry, but that’s just plain wrong. Darn near everything in baseball is measured. A won/lost record is a stat. Whether Johnny shows up for practice is a stat. Whether a player get a QAB is also a stat. Those things are statistics because they give a way to measure an event. Just because things aren’t written down doesn’t mean they are statistics.

    They all look at the stats. Every last one of them.
    Sure they look at them, but you’re saying they go gaga over them, and that isn’t true but for a very small percentage. Like I said, everyone likes to see their name in print, and kids are no exception.

    Tough.
    That’s your answer? Tough? And how would you like it if at work one of your peers was constantly being rewarded for doing job you do better in every single way?

    They are the ones who get mad at the coach for yelling at their kid for missing signals-and then yell at you when they think an error is a hit,.....Return on investment? Oh, brother!
    I think I’m getting a better sense of your feelings toward parents. You’ve been called out for hollering at the players and it pisses you off. Well, here’s what I have to say about that. TOUGH! The parents yell at you because they don’t agree with the way you marked something? TOUGH! Of course I’m kidding, but why do you think that kind of thing from a parent is unusual?

    I can tell you that depending on how someone disciplined either of my children when they were small, I might have taken exception and said something too. In fact, in recent years, coaches yelling is looked at as a big no-no by a heck of a lot of people. As for a parent getting his panties in a bunch over whether something gets marked as a hit or error, I hear that crap every single game! It doesn’t bother me because I understand they aren’t mad at me, they’re just being a parent. Also, I know how little it means in the grand scheme of things, so what I do is also show a number that includes ROEs as a positive, just for those parents. You’d be surprised at how it cools their jets.

    OSU's assistant to the AD? That proves it.
    Well, what proof do you have that no scout or coach looks at them? How else can I prove it? I talked to the guy at a conference, and he showed me on his laptop what he said was what he did. Should I have assumed he was a lying SOB and dug deeper? I don’t think so.

    If you choose to believe that stats have no place in this world, its fine by me. I know it would kill me not to look at a sport’s section because its nothing but stats from the first page to the last. And no more SI or TNS either.

    I think you’re creating fire and brimstone Devils from Hell where its nothing more than someone who passed gas in car.
    The pitcher who’s afraid to throw strikes, will soon be standing in the shower with the hitter who's afraid to swing.

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
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    SoCal
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    7,427
    Quote Originally Posted by scorekeeper View Post
    I’ll accept that the coach knows what HE believes a QAB is. So if that’s true, why can’t they define it so I can understand it? I’m not the sharpest tack in the box, but I really do believe I could understand a baseball concept just as good or better than any youth player. So if I don’t understand it, what makes you believe the kids are? Of course if its defined as just hitting the ball hard, that’s awfully simplistic for what we’re talking about here. In order to be a “better” metric than even the “normal” stats, it has to measure something.
    SK, trying to define a "QAB" would be one of the longest posts in the history of BBF, because there are almost as may "QABs" scenarios as there are potential situations presented to a hitter at any given AB.

    Most times a "QAB" is simply a coaching tool, to help coach a encourage a player who, although he worked hard, and technically did everything correct at the plate, just didn't get the results he was personally looking for . . . for himself or team.

    If you "believe (you) could understand a baseball concept just as good or better than any youth player" . . . than I'm sure you've watched a hitter battle a pitcher with four, five, or more foul balls on difficult pitches . . . making the pitcher throw a seven or eight more pitches than he should have . . . only to eventually, just miss a FB and tip it into the catcher's glove for a "K".

    Would you consider that a "QAB"? How about the kid, with a runner on second with no outs . . . who works to hit the ball behind the runner and swings at a definite ball off the outside of the plate to poke a weak GB to the 2nd baseman . . . he didn't hit that ball hard, but would you consider that a "QAB"?

    If you agree that those are a couple examples of "QABs", then I think you can see why defining all of them would be exhaustive at best . . . almost impossible at worst. If you don't agree that those are "QABs", then we're strictly of different opinions and for me to even attempt to define any of them would be pointless.

    As for the rest of the many immeasurable assumptions made throughout the rest of the posts, I'll let those interested in trying to debate the wide myriad of personal preferences and characteristics have at it . . .

  20. #40
    For those of you who strive to be process-oriented coaches--

    Posting the stats conflicts directly with process-oriented coaching (vs. results-oriented).
    Actions speak louder than words.
    Even if your words to your team reinforce process-oriented coaching, your action (posting the stats) betrays your words.
    Coaches who are genuinely process-oriented don't post the stats.
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