View Poll Results: PLEASE READ RESULTS, LIMIT TO 15 VOTES AND POST BALLOT IN THREAD

Voters
24. You may not vote on this poll
  • Sal Bando, 3B (1966-1981) - 15th Year

    17 70.83%
  • Kevin Bass, RF (1982-1995) - 1st Year

    0 0%
  • Steve Bedrosian, RP (1981-1995) - 1st Year

    0 0%
  • Buddy Bell, 3B (1972-1989) - 7th Year

    4 16.67%
  • Buddy Black, SP (1981-1995) - 1st Year

    0 0%
  • Tom Browning, SP (1984-1995) - 1st Year

    0 0%
  • Bobby Bonds, RF (1968-1981) - 15th Year

    15 62.50%
  • Cesar Cedeno, CF (1970-1986) - 10th Year

    5 20.83%
  • Dave Concepcion, SS (1970-1988) - 8th Year

    5 20.83%
  • Darrell Evans, 3B/1B (1969-1989) - 7th Year

    13 54.17%
  • Dwight Evans, RF (1972-1991) - 5th Year

    13 54.17%
  • Rollie Fingers, RP (1968-1982, 1984-1985) - 11th Year

    13 54.17%
  • Steve Garvey, 1B (1969-1987) - 9th Year

    3 12.50%
  • Kirk Gibson, OF (1979-1995) - 1st Year

    0 0%
  • Ron Guidry, SP (1975-1988) - 8th Year

    3 12.50%
  • Tom Henke, RP (1982-1995) - 1st Year

    1 4.17%
  • Keith Hernandez, 1B (1974-1990) - 6th Year

    20 83.33%
  • Tommy John, SP (1963-1974, 1976-1989) - 7th Year

    8 33.33%
  • Howard Johnson, 3B (1982-1995) - 1st Year

    0 0%
  • Jim Kaat, SP (1959-1983) - 13th Year

    9 37.50%
  • John Kruk, 1B/OF (1986-1995) - 1st Year

    0 0%
  • Sparky Lyle, RP (1967-1982) - 14th Year

    3 12.50%
  • Fred Lynn, CF (1974-1990) - 6th Year

    5 20.83%
  • Mike Marshall, RP (1967, 1969-1981) - 15th Year

    2 8.33%
  • Don Mattingly, 1B (1982-1995) - 1st Year

    4 16.67%
  • Jack Morris, SP (1977-1994) - 2nd Year

    3 12.50%
  • Dale Murphy, CF/RF (1976-1993) - 3rd Year

    16 66.67%
  • Graig Nettles, 3B (1967-1988) - 8th Year

    10 41.67%
  • Al Oliver, OF/1B (1968-1985) - 11th Year

    2 8.33%
  • Spike Owen, SS (1983-1995) - 1st Year

    1 4.17%
  • Dave Parker, RF (1973-1991) - 5th Year

    6 25.00%
  • Lance Parrish, C (1977-1995) - 1st Year

    3 12.50%
  • Kirby Puckett, CF (1984-1995) - 1st Year

    16 66.67%
  • Dan Quisenberry, RP (1979-1990) - 6th Year

    6 25.00%
  • Willie Randolph, 2B (1975-1992) - 4th Year

    9 37.50%
  • Jeff Reardon, RP (1979-1994) - 2nd Year

    1 4.17%
  • Rick Reuschel, SP (1972-1981, 1983-1991) - 5th Year

    1 4.17%
  • Jim Rice, LF (1974-1989) - 7th Year

    8 33.33%
  • Dave Righetti, RP (1979, 1981-1995) - 1st Year

    0 0%
  • Reggie Smith, RF/CF (1966-1982) - 14th Year

    12 50.00%
  • Rusty Staub, OF (1963-1985) - 11th Year

    3 12.50%
  • Dave Stewart, SP (1978, 1981-1995) - 1st Year

    0 0%
  • Bruce Sutter, SP (1976-1986, 1988) - 8th Year

    11 45.83%
  • Andy Van Slyke, CF (1983-1995) - 1st Year

    0 0%
  • Lou Whitaker, 2B (1977-1995) - 1st Year

    17 70.83%
  • Dave Winfield, RF (1973-1988, 1990-1995) - 1st Year

    23 95.83%
  • None of the Above (Blank Ballot)

    0 0%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 26 to 39 of 39

Thread: BBF Progressive HoF Election: 2000

  1. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    6,399
    Quote Originally Posted by STLCards2 View Post
    Yeah, but when 20% of all regular players from a few years in the 1930's are in the Hall compared to less than 4% of players from the 80's, it goes well beyond an expansion issue. There were not 3-4x as many players in the 80's. The influx of latin players equalizes the playing field a lot more than you are giving it credit for. I guess it all comes down to LQ beliefs - but the fact that most agree that a huge majority of us feel that the 20's-30's Vet. committe players makes up the majority of horrible HOF selections is evidence that that time period is vastly overrepresented.

    And do you really believe that the lower half of today's regulars couldn't have played in the 20's? Even with all of the latin and Asian players bumping the American regulars into the lower half? Again- LQ beliefs, I guess.
    Well, that goes back too many players being elected from the 1930's. Both in our project and in the real Hall. The problem is more on that end than it is too few players from the 1980's.

    No, I don't believe that half of today's regulars couldn't have played in the 20's. But I don't think that there were 25% more Hall of Famers in the American League in 1961 than there were in 1960. The Hall of Fame isn't just for the top x% of the players in a league. It's more of an absolute standard than that. If you think roughtly the top 1 or 2 players at a position in an 8 team league should be Hall of Famers, then roughly the top 1 or 2 at a position in a 14 team league should also be Hall of Famers. In a smaller league, it makes since that a higher % of the players would be great players. More players in the league (i.e. expansion) doesn't add more great players.

    Increases in the talent pool and league quality increases DO add more great players, but that doesn't have anything to do with what % of the league at anyone time is in the Hall of Fame. There should be more Hall of Famers from the 1960's and 1970's than there were from the 1920's because the league was stronger, but that doesn't mean the % of Hall of Famers should be at all similar in the 1960's and 1970's to what it was in the pre-war era.

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    6,820
    Blog Entries
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by Domenic View Post
    I'm a little surprised at the lack of support for Whitaker - I think he's well within our standards for second base.

    By WAR
    Hornsby - 127.7
    Collins - 126.7
    Lajoie - 104.2
    Morgan - 103.5
    Gehringer - 80.9
    Frisch - 74.7
    Whitaker - 69.5
    Grich - 67.6
    Robinson - 63.0
    Sandberg - 61.8*
    McPhee - 57.8
    Herman - 55.6
    Gordon - 54.9
    Lazzeri - 48.1
    Doerr - 48.0
    Doyle - 47.3
    Childs - 47.1
    Fox - 44.6
    Richardson - 40.5
    Barnes - 33.0

    Robinson certainly jumps ahead of him with Negro League credit, and Gordon may, as well, depending on your stance on war credit.
    by pilfering the info from the Career WAR leaders in a different thread of Brad Harris' we see that Randolph @ 60.5 would fit in at the high end of this spectrum as well.

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Florissant, Mo.
    Posts
    17,419
    Quote Originally Posted by mwiggins View Post
    There should be more Hall of Famers from the 1960's and 1970's than there were from the 1920's because the league was stronger, but that doesn't mean the % of Hall of Famers should be at all similar in the 1960's and 1970's to what it was in the pre-war era.
    I won't claim that they should be identical, but not overwhelmingly different either.

    And if the top 1 or 2 1B in an 8 team league are HOFers, then I have no problem with 3 in a 16 team league.
    1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

    1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

    1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012


    The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
    The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

  4. #29
    Bobby Bonds
    Dave Concepcion
    Rollie Fingers
    Steve Garvey
    Keith Hernandez
    Tommy John
    Fred Lynn
    Don Mattingly
    Jack Morris
    Dale Murphy
    Dave Parker
    Jeff Reardon
    Jim Rice
    Bruce Sutter
    Dave Winfield

    Also wanted to vote for, but didn't for one reason or another: Da. Evans, Dw. Evans, Kaat, Whitaker

    Meant to vote for Puckett over Lynn, but in a rush clicked submit. Oh well.
    Last edited by hairmetalfreek; 09-24-2010 at 02:15 PM.

  5. #30
    I'd like to see some discussion on Reardon. Currently he sits with only one vote (mine) and less than the required 5% to stay on the ballot, so I would like to see some consideration given to his candidacy by those who have not yet voted.

    Jeff appeared in 4 All-Star games, had two top-ten finishes for the Cy Young and three top-twenty finishes for MVP. He was, albeit for a short time, the all-time leader in saves with 357 (he finished his career with 367). That mark was eclipsed by Lee Smith very quickly.

    In the year 2000 (which is what we are supposed to consider here, if I understand correctly), only 3 players were ahead of Reardon's 367 career saves mark: Lee Smith (478), John Franco (420), Dennis Eckersley (390).

    To be honest, I am on the fence about Reardon and Franco, but I give them my support because I do believe they deserve more consideration from others. If they don't make it, that's fine. But I do think they need to be looked at more closely.

    Thoughts? Opinions?

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    mariners country
    Posts
    23,572
    --I wouldn't vote for the guys at #1/2 on the year 2000 all time saves list, so #3 Reardon didn't get much consideration from me. He is maybe the 4th or 5th best relief pitcher on this ballot?

  7. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by leecemark View Post
    --I wouldn't vote for the guys at #1/2 on the year 2000 all time saves list, so #3 Reardon didn't get much consideration from me. He is maybe the 4th or 5th best relief pitcher on this ballot?
    Fair enough. For those that did vote for Fingers and Sutter, why are you passing on Reardon?

    FWIW, I agree that Reardon is not as good as these other guys. As I said, I'm still kind of on the fence with him. But stats do mean *something*, don't they?

  8. #33
    ERA+
    Bruce Sutter 136
    Jeff Reardon 122

    Best 3 ERA+
    Bruce Sutter 328, 229, 188
    Jeff Reardon 177, 165, 162

    Cy Young Awards
    Bruce Sutter 1
    Jeff Reardon 0

    All-Star Selections
    Bruce Sutter 6
    Jeff Reardon 4

    Rolaids Relief Awards
    Bruce Sutter 4
    Jeff Reardon 1

    Jeff Reardon was a compiler who put together a nice career that is not HOF worthy. Bruce Sutter had one of the most dominant peaks of any reliever in the history of the game. The only knock on Sutter is a brief career. He is easily the best reliever currently outside our hall.

  9. #34
    Only two years ago the last players from the 1960s arrived on the ballot here, Carlton Fisk and Nolan Ryan. Several from the 1960s are still on the ballot. Some will still be on the regular ballot when the project catches up with 2010. The last from the 1970s will reach the regular ballot only in 2009, Tim Raines and few from the 1970s will ever be considered by the veterans committee.

    Roster size is merely the number of people eligible to play in one game. Why else is that more important than the 40-man roster or the entire player roster of a major league club? Meanwhile the number of players on a team has increased only from nine to ten and the National League continues with nine. The number used in a typical game has increased something like from 10 to 13. To some people it seems natural that should generate fewer Hall of Fame players because so many are playing incomplete games, splitting the workload defined by the rules.

  10. #35
    I don't know if anyone has noticed, but believe it or not, that is the 100th election we've done, during which time we've elected approximately 250 players.

  11. #36
    Just a quick thanks to those that responded about Reardon. If he drops off the ballot, I'll be okay with it knowing that some at least gave some thought to his candidacy.

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Baton Rouge, LA
    Posts
    2,077
    This election is closed. I would have done the recount per the request of Brad Harris, but the additional votes would have been inconsequential to the election results. We elected two candidates this year: Dave Winfield in his first year of eligibility and sixth year holdover Keith Hernandez.
    RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleX View Post
    I don't know if anyone has noticed, but believe it or not, that is the 100th election we've done, during which time we've elected approximately 250 players.
    100 years with 100 regular and dozens of special elections.
    251 players and 46 contributors.

    Congratulations to DoubleX and Ace.

  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Wendt View Post
    100 years with 100 regular and dozens of special elections.
    251 players and 46 contributors.

    Congratulations to DoubleX and Ace.
    Great job guys !!!

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •