Tropicana Field / Thunderdome / Florida Suncoast Dome

[Chevy114]

I really feel like it was a combo of guilt and threats of teams moving to the trop. I think the rays could build an affordable stadium they built the nationals park for 611 million and the trop cost 231 million in 2012 dollars, I think they would either do a fixed dome again but with no catwalks or they would do an open air with a larger overhang then most stadiums. The owners already showed and open air concept in downtown st. pete, so it could happen. Finally Other sports in Tampa started with TV such as hockey and they still get good attendance. I just hope we can get a stadium in Tampa to show people we will come.

[JPRays]

I really feel like it was a combo of guilt and threats of teams moving to the trop. I think the rays could build an affordable stadium they built the nationals park for 611 million and the trop cost 231 million in 2012 dollars, I think they would either do a fixed dome again but with no catwalks or they would do an open air with a larger overhang then most stadiums. The owners already showed and open air concept in downtown st. pete, so it could happen. Finally Other sports in Tampa started with TV such as hockey and they still get good attendance. I just hope we can get a stadium in Tampa to show people we will come.

I think that you should stop using hockey attendance as evidence that Tampa can draw a crowd. Hockey drew well in St. Pete in the same building that is so hotly debated now. Pro football has historically, outside of a honeymoon period of a new stadium and a very competitive, Super Bowl caliber team, has drawn very poorly. Lets be real here. being located in Tampa is not the end all be all answer to the attendance woes.

Why do you have to hope to have a stadium in Tampa to show that you will come? The Trop is 25 minutes tops from downtown Tampa. All interstate and multiple ways to get to and from the stadium and back onto the interstate. If they aren't coming now, they aren't going to come. Good, solid fans out there in Tampa, can't drive 25 extra minutes to support their team.

I am directly questioning your fandom if you use the extra 25 minute drive excuse. That is what is at question here. Not St. Pete's ability to support a team, because it has never been our sole responsibility to do that on our own. It is the Tampa fan's fandom that is at question. No matter where the stadium is in the region, it is going to take a regional effort for baseball to thrive. The team is called the TAMPA BAY RAYS. Not the St. Pete Rays. Come on out and support your team and your region. I do it when I drive across a nice, well maintained, free bridge, yell and scream for the Bucs and the Bolts. And happily drive across the bridge home after OUR team wins with a smile on my face.

[Chevy114]

I think that you should stop using hockey attendance as evidence that Tampa can draw a crowd. Hockey drew well in St. Pete in the same building that is so hotly debated now. Pro football has historically, outside of a honeymoon period of a new stadium and a very competitive, Super Bowl caliber team, has drawn very poorly. Lets be real here. being located in Tampa is not the end all be all answer to the attendance woes.

Why do you have to hope to have a stadium in Tampa to show that you will come? The Trop is 25 minutes tops from downtown Tampa. All interstate and multiple ways to get to and from the stadium and back onto the interstate. If they aren't coming now, they aren't going to come. Good, solid fans out there in Tampa, can't drive 25 extra minutes to support their team.

I am directly questioning your fandom if you use the extra 25 minute drive excuse. That is what is at question here. Not St. Pete's ability to support a team, because it has never been our sole responsibility to do that on our own. It is the Tampa fan's fandom that is at question. No matter where the stadium is in the region, it is going to take a regional effort for baseball to thrive. The team is called the TAMPA BAY RAYS. Not the St. Pete Rays. Come on out and support your team and your region. I do it when I drive across a nice, well maintained, free bridge, yell and scream for the Bucs and the Bolts. And happily drive across the bridge home after OUR team wins with a smile on my face.

Why can't I bring hockey into the mix? The trop scenario is completely loaded. You have to remember we had a crappy pro football team for years at that point and no other pro sports. People were clamoring to go see a new sport. It was 3 years of good attendance there with a good team who made the playoffs. Now that the shine has wore off having a new team and now again a new stadium shouldn't that be a factor when looking at Tampa as a site? Lets not forget the rays drew well in St. Pete too until the shine of a new pro team wore off and the 80 home games a year got taxing. Now we have NFL, College football, pro baseball, nice minor league stadiums, and minor league soccer for people to spend their money on, yet they go to hockey. Again remember Florida is not really a hockey state, especially since Tampa has only seen snow twice in 40 years. That is why I bring hockey into the mix.

As for downtown being an marker for driving, very few people live in downtown. Most people live in South Tampa, Northdale/Carrollwood, Westchase, west tampa, and New Tampa. Most of those places are at least an hour away during game days if not more. I live in Tampa, I hear people complain about two things the drive and the lack of parking. Its the year 2012 and we can't come up with a plain to get the majority of the population to a game they must love because they have incredible tv numbers and weekend numbers? I mean some kind of busing or boating system? No extra parking spots being created?

I am not the issue I make the 51 min drive (longer with big game traffic which is more frequent now that we are good) in New Tampa and I make it there on a teacher's salary. The point is, people in Tampa love the rays, they hate the stadium situation.

It happens, the Twins got a new stadium after 27 years, The mariners got a new one after 23 years, The rangers got a new stadium after 21 years, U.S. Celluar had to undergo massive renovations only after 10 years of being open. The trop was built in the weird time where it was on the tail end of outdated concepts like fixed roofs, close concourses, small luxary boxes, but the biggest issue that is no outdated is building a stadium on the outskirts of town so you can put tons of parking. It just happens the outskirts of town is an hour away, doesn't have the "tons of parking" expected, and has no excitement around the stadium. Also why would a town build a stadium so far away for a town that is centrally located?

Yes I know 14 years (23 if you count the original opening) is a short time to be gripping about a stadium, but this is a rare circumstance and it calls for new thinking.

[thechefs2003]

My son and I have a Fathers Day tradition of going to a different ballpark every year. This year he chose the Trop to see the Rays play the Marlins (his little league team was the Marlins this spring). So we flew down and caught two games this past weekend in St. Pete. For Saturday's game we were in section 111, row Y. The seats were fantastic, about a dozen rows behind the third base dugout on the lower level. Since I splurged a bit on those seats, I decided to save money for Sunday's game, so I bought tickets in the Upper Deck for that one. We sat in section 306, behind home plate/Rays on deck circle. We were in the very first row (row A) and we should have had a clear view of the entire field, but we didn't. I am not exaggerating when I say you could not see home plate if you sat all the way back in your seats. You had to lean forward and look over the rail to see the plate. This gets old and annoying very quickly. This was probably my only complaint about the stadium. As for the rest of the park, it's tolerable. They've done a good job making it feel like a baseball stadium and less like a multi-purpose dome. The concourses are very cramped, which is just a sign of the times it was built in. It wasn't that big of a deal this weekend but I can't imagine how packed they would have been for a sold out world series game with the full upper deck in use. Anyhow, like I said the park was tolerable, not great but not as bad as everyone makes it out to be either. My son and I both enjoyed the park very much. I've been to 30 different MLB stadiums now and this is certainly not the worst that I've seen. Of course, I tend to view that going to a ballpark is lot like pizza and sex - even when it's bad, it's still pretty good.

[JPRays]

My son and I have a Fathers Day tradition of going to a different ballpark every year. This year he chose the Trop to see the Rays play the Marlins (his little league team was the Marlins this spring). So we flew down and caught two games this past weekend in St. Pete. For Saturday's game we were in section 111, row Y. The seats were fantastic, about a dozen rows behind the third base dugout on the lower level. Since I splurged a bit on those seats, I decided to save money for Sunday's game, so I bought tickets in the Upper Deck for that one. We sat in section 306, behind home plate/Rays on deck circle. We were in the very first row (row A) and we should have had a clear view of the entire field, but we didn't. I am not exaggerating when I say you could not see home plate if you sat all the way back in your seats. You had to lean forward and look over the rail to see the plate. This gets old and annoying very quickly. This was probably my only complaint about the stadium. As for the rest of the park, it's tolerable. They've done a good job making it feel like a baseball stadium and less like a multi-purpose dome. The concourses are very cramped, which is just a sign of the times it was built in. It wasn't that big of a deal this weekend but I can't imagine how packed they would have been for a sold out world series game with the full upper deck in use. Anyhow, like I said the park was tolerable, not great but not as bad as everyone makes it out to be either. My son and I both enjoyed the park very much. I've been to 30 different MLB stadiums now and this is certainly not the worst that I've seen. Of course, I tend to view that going to a ballpark is lot like pizza and sex - even when it's bad, it's still pretty good.

Amen brother. I share all of those gripes. Mostly about the concourses. The closed concourses and the main parking lot being on the opposite side of the stadium from the main seating bowl for no reason are two major flaws of the building.

Side note, I'm headed to Kansas City to this weekend and catching a couple of games at Kauffman Stadium. Very much looking forward to it...

[JPRays]

Why can't I bring hockey into the mix? The trop scenario is completely loaded. You have to remember we had a crappy pro football team for years at that point and no other pro sports. People were clamoring to go see a new sport. It was 3 years of good attendance there with a good team who made the playoffs. Now that the shine has wore off having a new team and now again a new stadium shouldn't that be a factor when looking at Tampa as a site? Lets not forget the rays drew well in St. Pete too until the shine of a new pro team wore off and the 80 home games a year got taxing. Now we have NFL, College football, pro baseball, nice minor league stadiums, and minor league soccer for people to spend their money on, yet they go to hockey. Again remember Florida is not really a hockey state, especially since Tampa has only seen snow twice in 40 years. That is why I bring hockey into the mix.

As for downtown being an marker for driving, very few people live in downtown. Most people live in South Tampa, Northdale/Carrollwood, Westchase, west tampa, and New Tampa. Most of those places are at least an hour away during game days if not more. I live in Tampa, I hear people complain about two things the drive and the lack of parking. Its the year 2012 and we can't come up with a plain to get the majority of the population to a game they must love because they have incredible tv numbers and weekend numbers? I mean some kind of busing or boating system? No extra parking spots being created?

I am not the issue I make the 51 min drive (longer with big game traffic which is more frequent now that we are good) in New Tampa and I make it there on a teacher's salary. The point is, people in Tampa love the rays, they hate the stadium situation.

It happens, the Twins got a new stadium after 27 years, The mariners got a new one after 23 years, The rangers got a new stadium after 21 years, U.S. Celluar had to undergo massive renovations only after 10 years of being open. The trop was built in the weird time where it was on the tail end of outdated concepts like fixed roofs, close concourses, small luxary boxes, but the biggest issue that is no outdated is building a stadium on the outskirts of town so you can put tons of parking. It just happens the outskirts of town is an hour away, doesn't have the "tons of parking" expected, and has no excitement around the stadium. Also why would a town build a stadium so far away for a town that is centrally located?

Yes I know 14 years (23 if you count the original opening) is a short time to be gripping about a stadium, but this is a rare circumstance and it calls for new thinking.

I bring up downtown because its where everyone is clamoring to put the stadium.

Touting hockey drawing well in Tampa is irrelevant. Hockey drew well in St. Pete as well.

There is some action, here, Pinellas County has started to move its feet on light rail. At least... Sounds exactly like what you're describing... It is 2012 after all.

Have you ever ventured to downtown St. Pete after a game? If not, you are absolutely missing out. Don't worry about transportation, you can park in any of the downtown garages for $5.00 and hop the Downtown trolley that takes you to the Trop and brings you back FOR FREE!! Parking problem solved, saved you money, you're welcome... There are tons of restaurants, any type of food you can think of. Bust out a smart phone app and have your pick of the litter. There are plenty of bars and nightclubs and if you would like me to be your tour guide, I would be more than happy to help out.

[NickEsasky]

I bring up downtown because its where everyone is clamoring to put the stadium.

Touting hockey drawing well in Tampa is irrelevant. Hockey drew well in St. Pete as well.

There is some action, here, Pinellas County has started to move its feet on light rail. At least... Sounds exactly like what you're describing... It is 2012 after all.

Have you ever ventured to downtown St. Pete after a game? If not, you are absolutely missing out. Don't worry about transportation, you can park in any of the downtown garages for $5.00 and hop the Downtown trolley that takes you to the Trop and brings you back FOR FREE!! Parking problem solved, saved you money, you're welcome... There are tons of restaurants, any type of food you can think of. Bust out a smart phone app and have your pick of the litter. There are plenty of bars and nightclubs and if you would like me to be your tour guide, I would be more than happy to help out.

This account of downtown St Pete is 100% true. Perhaps things have changed since 2005, but when I worked in downtown Tampa I can attest that there was nothing going on there aside from Channelside. Channelside is the nightlife equivalent to a planned community. St Pete's options grew more organically.

Every time I comment on this situation either here or on any of the Rays blogs I read I always tell myself it will be my last time because the topic is so frustrating. We have unfortunate circumstances on our hands. St Pete won't (and shouldn't) part with the Rays. It also doesn't make good fiscal sense to build a stadium within city limits when a large potion of the customer base has spoken with their action by refusing to drive across the bridges to attend games. So, the logical course of action is to do nothing instead of falling in line with every other city where Selig assisted heists occurred. But we don't want to lose the Rays to another metro area right? Well Tampa, you guys are tapped out. Where is the money coming from? Still paying for RJS, TBT Forum, and Steinbrenner Field (which is a freaking joke....our division rival is getting your dollars for a facility). Someone in this thread alluded to the fact that Buccaneer attendance has been historically poor outside of the run from 1997-2007. Not a coincidence that those were the first ten years of RJS. If you recall, the Glazers required a ten year commitment for seasons ticket holders. When that commitment period ran out, the games stopped selling out. Hockey attendance in St Pete is comparable to Tampa. Why would the Rays be any different? Well, we've got a larger population base in the year 2012 than we did in the mid 90s, but the only historical data we have to go on is 25 years old.

The thing that probably makes the best sense is for the Rays to stay in Tropicana Field for longer than anyone would want, allow Tampa to pay down their existing sports stadium debt, and when the funds free up to build another arena let them have the Rays since it is clear that they aren't going to patronize a facility in Pinellas County.

[JPRays]

This account of downtown St Pete is 100% true. Perhaps things have changed since 2005, but when I worked in downtown Tampa I can attest that there was nothing going on there aside from Channelside. Channelside is the nightlife equivalent to a planned community. St Pete's options grew more organically.

Every time I comment on this situation either here or on any of the Rays blogs I read I always tell myself it will be my last time because the topic is so frustrating. We have unfortunate circumstances on our hands. St Pete won't (and shouldn't) part with the Rays. It also doesn't make good fiscal sense to build a stadium within city limits when a large potion of the customer base has spoken with their action by refusing to drive across the bridges to attend games. So, the logical course of action is to do nothing instead of falling in line with every other city where Selig assisted heists occurred. But we don't want to lose the Rays to another metro area right? Well Tampa, you guys are tapped out. Where is the money coming from? Still paying for RJS, TBT Forum, and Steinbrenner Field (which is a freaking joke....our division rival is getting your dollars for a facility). Someone in this thread alluded to the fact that Buccaneer attendance has been historically poor outside of the run from 1997-2007. Not a coincidence that those were the first ten years of RJS. If you recall, the Glazers required a ten year commitment for seasons ticket holders. When that commitment period ran out, the games stopped selling out. Hockey attendance in St Pete is comparable to Tampa. Why would the Rays be any different? Well, we've got a larger population base in the year 2012 than we did in the mid 90s, but the only historical data we have to go on is 25 years old.

The thing that probably makes the best sense is for the Rays to stay in Tropicana Field for longer than anyone would want, allow Tampa to pay down their existing sports stadium debt, and when the funds free up to build another arena let them have the Rays since it is clear that they aren't going to patronize a facility in Pinellas County.

The two facedness that is Tampa when it comes to the Yankees and the Rays is dumbfounding. The absolute perfect location for a baseball stadium is currently being occupied by the New York Yankees and the Tampanians are footing the bill... Seems like a conflict of interest to me.

[NickEsasky]

The two facedness that is Tampa when it comes to the Yankees and the Rays is dumbfounding. The absolute perfect location for a baseball stadium is currently being occupied by the New York Yankees and the Tampanians are footing the bill... Seems like a conflict of interest to me.

Yes. The other side to the argument would be that the deal for Legends Field was struck in the mid 90s once it was clear that any MLB team that came to the area would play in St Pete. So with Steinbrenner being local they struck a deal with the Yankees. If Tampa had any aspirations of courting the St Pete baseball team in the future they should have thought of that before giving money to the Yankees for their project. It is no coincidence that the Cardinals ended their decades long relationship with St Petersburg (for both spring training and A ball) after the 97 season because MLB was coming in 98 in the form of the Devil Rays.

[Chevy114]

1. I think hockey is relevant because Tampa is not a traditional hockey town. As pointed out before hockey only worked in St. Pete imo before Tampa had any other sports (besides a horrible bucs team year after year) so of course it worked for the 2 years it was there. Now that we are going on year 20 and Tampa has kept hockey attendance well shows 2 things: first that we do like pro sports and second that the downtown location is great for fans.

2. I would love to have a light rail, the problem is the last time we tried to build a light rail (for free) it got shot down real fast. If St. Pete ever got that then yes they would finally be showing interest in trying to make baseball work.

3. I have been to your downtown its full of hipsters, weird bars, and homeless people that make the average sports fan feel out of place. I was in downtown st. pete last night for a concert at State Theatre and ate at Fortunatos pizza before hand. Would I go there for a game? No probably not because its even further past Tampa, I would feel out of place, and feel in danger around so many homeless people. Tampa may not have an organic downtown, but at least I have fun there and like what I do. I go to soccer games and concerts when I want that downtown st. pete vibe, not baseball games. I have been to numerous hockey games in Tampa and had a lot of fun and felt normal at their bars and restaurants, all while never encountering a homeless person. There's a reason people only talk about fergs, because its the only bar geared to sports fans and its always too crowded for anyone to have fun.

3. As I have said before the legends field location is a horrible place to put a stadium, there is no night life, its surrounded by car dealerships and office parks. If you want a sport that plays 80 home games a year to work I really feel you need to have a social scene to go with it, that is why Baltimore and Colorado work so well.

4. I hope you guys know I do go to games and I do like St. Pete in certain ways, but I just want a stadium in Tampa because we have already geared a great location towards sports and night life, so I really think it would work better then leaving the team in the trop or moving even further from Tampa. I am really not trying to ruffle feathers, I am just thinking aloud and saying things that I think are true, hope no one takes offense.

5. Just to be clear are you guys saying the trop would work or they need to build a new stadium on the water in downtown St. Pete to work?

[NickEsasky]

Here is my position in a nutshell. As a place to be, I prefer st Pete. No offense just my personal preference. I think the masses in Tampa have spoken loud and clear about their feelings regarding the team being in st Pete. Their feelings disappoint me but they are what they are. St Pete should not bend over to any demands. The trop allows me a cozy environment to watch a great team. These are all huge positives. If the use agreements end draws closer and the rays want out and Tampa has the money to spend on them then by a
L means make it happen. But st Pete shouldn't bend over because certain groups think that is the thing to do even though st Pete has the rights to the team for another fifteen years. Who knows. In fifteen years time the things we would want in a stadium might be totally different.

[PeteU]

Chevy, JP, Nick--

If you can stop your squabbling for just a second, feel free to check out my post in the "Between Innings" section on the forum:

http://www.baseball-fever.com/showth...30#post2027130

It's a reimagining of the Tampa Bay Rays' history as if Tampa Bay had been awarded an expansion team in 1977 instead of Toronto. This was inspired by the Rays upcoming "throwback" game to 1979 (which, of course, the franchise hadn't actually existed at that point.(

[Chevy114]

Chevy, JP, Nick--

If you can stop your squabbling for just a second, feel free to check out my post in the "Between Innings" section on the forum:

http://www.baseball-fever.com/showth...30#post2027130

It's a reimagining of the Tampa Bay Rays' history as if Tampa Bay had been awarded an expansion team in 1977 instead of Toronto. This was inspired by the Rays upcoming "throwback" game to 1979 (which, of course, the franchise hadn't actually existed at that point.(

Great story! I thought it was funny you had them stay at AL lang, no team since the Giants at Seals played in a stadium that small right? I do love the hats the rays are doing though hope to get one!

[PeteU]

Great story! I thought it was funny you had them stay at AL lang, no team since the Giants at Seals played in a stadium that small right? I do love the hats the rays are doing though hope to get one!

You are correct, in part, technically, maybe.

Seals Stadium seated 22,000 for the Giants.

In 1969, the Seattle Pilots played in Sick's Stadium. As of opening day, it only seated 18,000. However, several months later they expanded it to 25,000.

Also, let's not forget the Rays themselves played a few regular season games at Cracker Jack Stadium, which seated only 9,500. And the Oakland A's played a few games at Cashman Field in Las Vegas during the renovation of the Coliseum, which only sat a little over 9,000.

As to Al Lang Stadium, it was actually proposed as a temporary home for a relocated White Sox team while the Suncoast Dome was being completed, and it would have seated roughly 20,000. It would be interesting to see what the set-up would have looked like for that.....probably a large bank of outfield bleachers a la Arlington Stadium.

[Chevy114]

You are correct, in part, technically, maybe.

Seals Stadium seated 22,000 for the Giants.

In 1969, the Seattle Pilots played in Sick's Stadium. As of opening day, it only seated 18,000. However, several months later they expanded it to 25,000.

Also, let's not forget the Rays themselves played a few regular season games at Cracker Jack Stadium, which seated only 9,500. And the Oakland A's played a few games at Cashman Field in Las Vegas during the renovation of the Coliseum, which only sat a little over 9,000.

As to Al Lang Stadium, it was actually proposed as a temporary home for a relocated White Sox team while the Suncoast Dome was being completed, and it would have seated roughly 20,000. It would be interesting to see what the set-up would have looked like for that.....probably a large bank of outfield bleachers a la Arlington Stadium.

Yeah the Al Lang set up would have been interesting because it would have been like the astros going from colts stadium to the astrodome, it would be been a big change. Also can you imagine if the original suncoast dome set up was the only setup (no curve in the base seats and no beach)? Fun story though again, wonder if Al Lopez would have been an option in the 70s?

[NickEsasky]

Yeah the Al Lang set up would have been interesting because it would have been like the astros going from colts stadium to the astrodome, it would be been a big change. Also can you imagine if the original suncoast dome set up was the only setup (no curve in the base seats and no beach)? Fun story though again, wonder if Al Lopez would have been an option in the 70s?

Funny you mention Al Lopez. Baseball was a pipe dream when the Blue Jays were awarded to Toronto, but if it did happen Al Lopez would have been the more likely spot. There was a small group of City Commissioners in St Pete that liked the idea of trying to get baseball in the late 70s. The St Pete effort was very disorganized at that point, and there was no financial backing of any kind at that point. All the major investors interested in sports were in Tampa (Frank Morsani, Hugh Culverhouse). Had Tampa gotten a little more serious earlier in the game, maybe things go their way. But really its hard to get more serious than Morsani. He acquired 42% of the Twins with intentions of buying a controlling share from the Griffiths before Bowie Kuhn convinced him to back away with a promise of giving him first crack at an expansion franchise (this according to Morsani's tortuous interference suit against MLB
http://case-law.vlex.com/vid/major-l...i-etc-20848560

St Pete was so darn close to getting the White Sox and Giants (and to a lesser extent the Mariners), but the original deal that could've been was Morsani's Twins deal. If he sticks to his guns there maybe there is baseball in Tampa now (because this was prior to Suncoast Dome approval). Once the Suncoast Dome was built all efforts included that facility as the landing spot. In this faux 70s scenerio, I think Chevy is right, Al Lopez is the likely temporary home for the fictitious Tampa baseball club.

[Chevy114]

I did a similar but Tampa version of the story pete.

http://www.baseball-fever.com/showth...84#post2028784

[PeteU]

I did a similar but Tampa version of the story pete.

http://www.baseball-fever.com/showth...84#post2028784

Good stuff.

You mentioned the open concourse views as a modern perk in your write up.

I have to say, after my first full (9 inning) game at Marlins Park, I have to say open concourses are somewhat overrated as a feature. You really can't see any of the field itself from the concession stands, just the seating bowl. Yes, you get to hear the crowd reaction better than in a closed concourse, but it's not as though you can turn around in line at a concession and actually see the action on the field.

[Chevy114]

Good stuff.

You mentioned the open concourse views as a modern perk in your write up.

I have to say, after my first full (9 inning) game at Marlins Park, I have to say open concourses are somewhat overrated as a feature. You really can't see any of the field itself from the concession stands, just the seating bowl. Yes, you get to hear the crowd reaction better than in a closed concourse, but it's not as though you can turn around in line at a concession and actually see the action on the field.

I like it with the minor league parks that I have been too, there are a ton of people who actually just stand there and watch the game. I don't think I have been to an mlb with one yet, if you can't see the field though, I an imagine it would be overrated. I think you potentially get the same effect from doing a standing area in the outfield like the white sox did and what the rays did at their spring training stadium.

[NickEsasky]

Good stuff.

You mentioned the open concourse views as a modern perk in your write up.

I have to say, after my first full (9 inning) game at Marlins Park, I have to say open concourses are somewhat overrated as a feature. You really can't see any of the field itself from the concession stands, just the seating bowl. Yes, you get to hear the crowd reaction better than in a closed concourse, but it's not as though you can turn around in line at a concession and actually see the action on the field.

Pete, interesting comment about the concourses. I've always been of the mentality that open concourses were over-rated. When I went to Marlins Park I enjoyed it though. You are right. You can't watch the game per se, but it does allow you to keep an eye on it. I walked the whole concourse during the first inning and when the crowd reacted you could easily glance over and see what was going on. They have some of the basic concessions (i.e. beer) set up on the opposite side of the concourse so that people standing in line are facing the action. I guess that is a positive too.

I like them, but I would not spend money remodeling a stadium just to incorporate them. (in other words, Baltimore shouldn't bend over backwards to open their concourse.

[The Old Ballpark]

Good stuff.

You mentioned the open concourse views as a modern perk in your write up.

I have to say, after my first full (9 inning) game at Marlins Park, I have to say open concourses are somewhat overrated as a feature. You really can't see any of the field itself from the concession stands, just the seating bowl. Yes, you get to hear the crowd reaction better than in a closed concourse, but it's not as though you can turn around in line at a concession and actually see the action on the field.

Pete, I had a conversation years ago with Peter Kirk, the legendary former operator of numerous minor league clubs. This was in the mid 90's during the heyday of new minor league ballparks, and Peter had built a half-dozen of them. He kinda pioneered the open concourse in new minor league parks and insisted that all of his facilities have them.

Knowing that Peter was a very bottom-line oriented guy, I commented that open concourse parks where you can see the field while waiting in a concessions line must lead to higher concession sales than parks with close concourses.

Peter replied that he had assumed it would be that way too, but he had learned that in reality it didn't make a bit of difference. His teams playing in open concourse parks didn't have higher sales per capita than teams in ballparks without them.

But, he said "fans have come to expect them, so we give them what they want."

[Chevy114]

Pete, I had a conversation years ago with Peter Kirk, the legendary former operator of numerous minor league clubs. This was in the mid 90's during the heyday of new minor league ballparks, and Peter had built a half-dozen of them. He kinda pioneered the open concourse in new minor league parks and insisted that all of his facilities have them.

Knowing that Peter was a very bottom-line oriented guy, I commented that open concourse parks where you can see the field while waiting in a concessions line must lead to higher concession sales than parks with close concourses.

Peter replied that he had assumed it would be that way too, but he had learned that in reality it didn't make a bit of difference. His teams playing in open concourse parks didn't have higher sales per capita than teams in ballparks without them.

But, he said "fans have come to expect them, so we give them what they want."

I totally get where in theory it sounds good that not missing a play would increase food sales, but I think people will do what they want no matter if they can see the game or not. I would say it makes standing more of an option then normal, but I don't think it would increase hunger.

[Chevy114]

Bud Selig says the rays need a new stadium, its the only option. Wonder how much of a new stadium he will be paying for???

http://www2.tbo.com/sports/breaking-...exc-ar-428288/

[Paul W]

Bud Selig says the rays need a new stadium, its the only option. Wonder how much of a new stadium he will be paying for???

none, his m.o. is that taxpayers are an open source of financing (except in s.f.)

[Paul W]

...a combo of guilt and threats of teams moving to the trop. I think the rays could build an affordable stadium they built the nationals park for 611 million and the trop cost 231 million in 2012 dollars, I think they would either do a fixed dome again but with no catwalks or they would do an open air with a larger overhang then most stadiums. The owners already showed and open air concept in downtown st. pete, so it could happen. Finally Other sports in Tampa started with TV such as hockey and they still get good attendance. I just hope we can get a stadium in Tampa to show people we will come.

not guilt, it was the real threat of congressional action on mlb's anti-trust status by florida rep's. and the owners need for a new infusion of cash from entry fees.
the franchise won't build the place themselves, (g)nats place was taxpayer financed.
concepts ain't reality and along the water wasn't realistic without filling in a good chunk of the marina.
the other big league franchises are in tampa, watching on tv at home is better than crossing the dreaded bridges (oh-my!).