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Thread: Braves 2010/11 Offseason Thread

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamtheBravesFan View Post
    ... why do we need an "on base steal" threat? What is with people's obsession with that? What the Braves need are people who get on base, make consistent contact and are smart baserunners. They don't necessarily have to have "speed".
    i think with a serious base-stealing threat at the top and heyward presumably in the 2-hole, that's a lot of speed at the top followed by a hopefully healthy and productive chipper, mccann and prado (yes, i am okay with prado batting fifth, or flipping chipper and prado, yea i know right). Whether it's stealing bases, staying out of double plays, going 1 to third on a single to the OF, scoring from 1st on a play in the gap. It makes it easier to manufacture runs when you aren't hitting home runs three times a game.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by chip&smoltz95 View Post
    i think with a serious base-stealing threat at the top and heyward presumably in the 2-hole, that's a lot of speed at the top followed by a hopefully healthy and productive chipper, mccann and prado (yes, i am okay with prado batting fifth, or flipping chipper and prado, yea i know right). Whether it's stealing bases, staying out of double plays, going 1 to third on a single to the OF, scoring from 1st on a play in the gap. It makes it easier to manufacture runs when you aren't hitting home runs three times a game.
    Okay, then let me pose this to you: can the Braves afford anyone with that extra burst of speed? It's an overvauled commodity right now. The only one that even makes sense to me is Carl Crawford, and he's going to get piles of money thrown at him.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamtheBravesFan View Post
    Okay, then let me pose this to you: can the Braves afford anyone with that extra burst of speed? It's an overvauled commodity right now. The only one that even makes sense to me is Carl Crawford, and he's going to get piles of money thrown at him.

    agreed, but werth could be a 20 base steal threat too. I also think via trade the braves could look at m.bourn/h.pence if either is avaiable. matt kemp or brett gardner (don't want curtis granderson) could be a possibility. as far as cheap goes I know coco crisp could be an option as PBF mentioned, but I like Scott Podsednik (only cost 1.6mil last season). he's hit over .300 the last two seasons with 30+ steals.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by chip&smoltz95 View Post
    agreed, but werth could be a 20 base steal threat too. I also think via trade the braves could look at m.bourn/h.pence if either is avaiable. matt kemp or brett gardner (don't want curtis granderson) could be a possibility. as far as cheap goes I know coco crisp could be an option as PBF mentioned, but I like Scott Podsednik (only cost 1.6mil last season). he's hit over .300 the last two seasons with 30+ steals.
    Let me put it this way: I'd much rather have the Braves overpay Jayson Werth AND have him suck for most of the deal than view Scott Podsednik as any kind of solution. I do not trust him keeping up his average or his steals next year in the least. (He hit .297 last year.)

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamtheBravesFan View Post
    Let me put it this way: I'd much rather have the Braves overpay Jayson Werth AND have him suck for most of the deal than view Scott Podsednik as any kind of solution. I do not trust him keeping up his average or his steals next year in the least. (He hit .297 last year.)
    i'd rather have pods than coco crisp. just saying if we are gonna go the cheap route.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by chip&smoltz95 View Post
    i'd rather have pods than coco crisp. just saying if we are gonna go the cheap route.
    Why? Crisp is better in all respects except two areas, the first is BA though the fact their OBP are very similar makes the advantage small at best, the second is health which is clearly is Podsednik's favor.

    Overall though Crisp would be the clear choice overall if both were on the market (I actually don't think either will be), Crisp can play Gold Glove caliber CF which Podsednik cannot, Crisp can hit for some power which Podsednik hasn't shown any real ability to do, Crisp SB% have been over 80% (85% is considered by some to be the threshold between useful speed and negative speed) 4 out of the past 5 years while Podsednik hasn't had a SB% over 75% in the past 5 years, and finally Crisp is a switch hitter while he isn't as strong against RHP compared to LHP (RHP .275/.332/.399, LHP .283/.333/.437) compared to Podsednik being a pure lefty whos power goes from below average to terrible (RHP .283/.344/.391, LHP .270/.329/.348).
    Extend Prado!!!

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by PureBaseballFan View Post
    Why? Crisp is better in all respects except two areas, the first is BA though the fact their OBP are very similar makes the advantage small at best, the second is health which is clearly is Podsednik's favor.
    mainly, because of that. our options are already thin in the OF, I don't want to get a guy that will just end up not playing and we resort to some AAA guy playing most of the season. can crisp really still play GG caliber CF with all the injuries?

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by chip&smoltz95 View Post
    mainly, because of that. our options are already thin in the OF, I don't want to get a guy that will just end up not playing and we resort to some AAA guy playing most of the season. can crisp really still play GG caliber CF with all the injuries?
    By all accounts and defensive metrics he plays a quality CF compared to Podsednik which by those same metrics struggles is an average defender in LF. I say pick the best player personally, Podsednik doesn't do anything but make slightly more contact which isn't all the valueable unless it leads to a pretty decent advantage in OBP which it doesn't. If both somehow made it on the market I would much rather take the injury risk for the clearly better player.

    The real best case scenario for the Braves is the Red Sox sign Crawford and end up putting Ellsbury on the market, one can hope.

    Reportedly the Braves are going to sign Larry Parrish to be their hitting coach.
    Extend Prado!!!

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by PureBaseballFan View Post
    The real best case scenario for the Braves is the Red Sox sign Crawford and end up putting Ellsbury on the market, one can hope.

    Reportedly the Braves are going to sign Larry Parrish to be their hitting coach.
    i would take that, but what do you think it would cost?

  10. #50
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    I would like to say to anybody that badmouths the Parrish hiring should just shut up. I have seen some talk about his BA and OBP, anyone that brings that up when discussing a hitting coach are nothing more then dumb people thinking they no what makes a good coach. Just for perspective the guy many consider one of the best hitting coaches right now hit .258 in four seasons in the minors, for those that don't know it is Rudy Jaramillo but I am sure he sucks as a coach considering he can't hit.

    I am not saying he will be a good hitting coach or a bad one but we're not going to know until a season or two at the earliest, so if you are trying to make any real judgement before he is even officially announced JUST SHUT UP!!!
    Extend Prado!!!

  11. #51
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    It might possibly benefit the Braves to hear advice from someone different. Larry Parrish is as good a hire as any; we just didn't expect it.

    As for the complaining about the type of hitter Parirsh was, that's absurd. The Braves just finished a season where they led the league in on-base percentage and Terry Pendleton is for from what anyone would call selective at the plate. In fact, the Braves ran the gamut from having a bare-bones offense to slugging the lights out under Pendleton.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by SamtheBravesFan View Post
    ... why do we need an "on base steal" threat? What is with people's obsession with that? What the Braves need are people who get on base, make consistent contact and are smart baserunners. They don't necessarily have to have "speed".
    I don't think it's a need. I just personally wish we would have an "on base steal" threat. Since when has Atlanta had a true leadoff man and steal threat? Since we had Furcal? I believe stealing bases can be a very useful weapon to use against teams especially when you get a chance to get an early jump on an opponent. Why not just steal sometimes instead of trying to bunt guys over when some guys can't get a bunt down and you're taking the bat out of their hand? Some guys are so double play prone you can just steal and get out of the possibility of a double play. I'm a huge fan of; hit and runs, steals, sacrificing, etc. That's just my personal opinion though.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyler4 View Post
    I don't think it's a need. I just personally wish we would have an "on base steal" threat. Since when has Atlanta had a true leadoff man and steal threat? Since we had Furcal? I believe stealing bases can be a very useful weapon to use against teams especially when you get a chance to get an early jump on an opponent. Why not just steal sometimes instead of trying to bunt guys over when some guys can't get a bunt down and you're taking the bat out of their hand? Some guys are so double play prone you can just steal and get out of the possibility of a double play. I'm a huge fan of; hit and runs, steals, sacrificing, etc. That's just my personal opinion though.
    Speed is a nice luxury but one that really isn't on the market, the best case scenario as I said before is the Red Sox signing Crawford and putting Ellsbury on the market but other then that you are at best looking at a highly flawed market for speed.

    Playing aggresively has nothing to do with speed (using hit and runs for example) because in reality having guys you trust will make contact is much more important for the hit and runs then anything else. The Braves just need more bats because after their top 4 it is all question marks and even the top 4 has problems (Chipper's injury risk, the fact McCann can't play everyday, and Prado coming off of injury), realistically the Braves should have enough room to add at least 1 bat but how competitive they are next year has a lot to do with major question marks at the bottom of the lineup.

    I keep trying to do a Mock Offseason but I just keep hitting a roadblock because the salary limit and the names that most think will be on the market are just not that good looking and almost all have major flaws. I really believe the only hope of the Braves adding a serious bat to this team is through a trade and I hope I'm correct in thinking that Wren's "We are hesistent to trade from out starting pitching because it is a strength" comment is more a smokescreen to keep everyone's value high then a something to purely take at face value.
    Extend Prado!!!

  14. #54
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    Some basic news for you guys.

    Something everyone expected to happen did as the Braves picked up Gonzalez's and Infante's options while declining Farnsworth and Ankiel's options.

    Some minor news as the Braves have claimed Joe Mather off of waivers from St. Louis. The Braves have been linked to Mather in the past, offensively he hasn't shown much except for some nice power but defensively he can play all positions in the outfield at what would appear to be at an average or better level. If the Braves non-tender Diaz and don't bring him back it likely is because they want a more defensive minded 4th OFer.

    Edit :: I was trying to think of another potential trade for the Braves and here is another one that I came up with.

    Rangers or some other team re/signs Cliff Lee :: This is key.

    Andy Pettitte Retires :: Not needed but would make it easier.

    Braves trade Eric O'Flaherty and Jair Jurrjens to the New York Yankees for Brett Gardner and Jonathan Albaladejo :: Braves would add a serious leadoff hitter not just in speed but with the ability to get on-base at a high rate, he also plays great defense in CF improving one of the Braves major weaknesses. The Braves also get Albaladejo who has been an average at best reliever in his small career thus far giving the Braves another potential middle relief arm and in the worst case scenario extra depth in the bullpen.

    The Yankees in my scenario clearly need a starter and the free agent market looks pretty barren (in the situation they have) so they look to the trade market. Jair is young relatively cheap (for the Yankees it looks like he is making nothing) and under control for 3 years. O'Flaherty adds a needed lefty to the Yankees Pen (Marte would appear to be out till late next year and Boone Logan is their only other lefty) and is cheap and under control for 3 years as well.

    The Braves benefit thanks to losing some salary while fixing one problem, it does weaken them in the rotation but not by a major amount and the Braves could shift the saved money to a free agent or another trade, the loss of EOF isn't huge because of Venters and the potential of Ortegano (I believe he takes the Venters route becoming a good reliever) Dunn already in the system.

    The Yankees while losing a quality OFer could easily shift gears from a big pitcher to someone like Jayson Werth or go semi-cheap with a Thames/and some lefty.

    Any Thoughts? I'll still try and come up with some other potential scenarios that could help the Braves.
    Last edited by PureBaseballFan; 11-03-2010 at 12:51 PM.
    Extend Prado!!!

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by PureBaseballFan View Post
    Some basic news for you guys.

    Something everyone expected to happen did as the Braves picked up Gonzalez's and Infante's options while declining Farnsworth and Ankiel's options.

    Some minor news as the Braves have claimed Joe Mather off of waivers from St. Louis. The Braves have been linked to Mather in the past, offensively he hasn't shown much except for some nice power but defensively he can play all positions in the outfield at what would appear to be at an average or better level. If the Braves non-tender Diaz and don't bring him back it likely is because they want a more defensive minded 4th OFer.

    Edit :: I was trying to think of another potential trade for the Braves and here is another one that I came up with.

    Rangers or some other team re/signs Cliff Lee :: This is key.

    Andy Pettitte Retires :: Not needed but would make it easier.

    Braves trade Eric O'Flaherty and Jair Jurrjens to the New York Yankees for Brett Gardner and Jonathan Albaladejo :: Braves would add a serious leadoff hitter not just in speed but with the ability to get on-base at a high rate, he also plays great defense in CF improving one of the Braves major weaknesses. The Braves also get Albaladejo who has been an average at best reliever in his small career thus far giving the Braves another potential middle relief arm and in the worst case scenario extra depth in the bullpen.

    The Yankees in my scenario clearly need a starter and the free agent market looks pretty barren (in the situation they have) so they look to the trade market. Jair is young relatively cheap (for the Yankees it looks like he is making nothing) and under control for 3 years. O'Flaherty adds a needed lefty to the Yankees Pen (Marte would appear to be out till late next year and Boone Logan is their only other lefty) and is cheap and under control for 3 years as well.

    The Braves benefit thanks to losing some salary while fixing one problem, it does weaken them in the rotation but not by a major amount and the Braves could shift the saved money to a free agent or another trade, the loss of EOF isn't huge because of Venters and the potential of Ortegano (I believe he takes the Venters route becoming a good reliever) Dunn already in the system.

    The Yankees while losing a quality OFer could easily shift gears from a big pitcher to someone like Jayson Werth or go semi-cheap with a Thames/and some lefty.

    Any Thoughts? I'll still try and come up with some other potential scenarios that could help the Braves.
    i like the idea of adding gardner, ellsbury or rasmus the most. that's assuming the braves don't get crawford. i am starting to wonder if werth isn't going to end up like jason bay (i.e overpaid and then struggling a bit)

    edit: i also think with mather being pickup up that diaz is likely gone and will probably sign with the phils and then kill us next year.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by chip&smoltz95 View Post
    i like the idea of adding gardner, ellsbury or rasmus the most. that's assuming the braves don't get crawford. i am starting to wonder if werth isn't going to end up like jason bay (i.e overpaid and then struggling a bit)

    edit: i also think with mather being pickup up that diaz is likely gone and will probably sign with the phils and then kill us next year.
    Why should Diaz kill the Braves? The only starting pitcher he could conceivably face is MInor and a couple of lefties in the pen. There's no way Manuel plays Diaz against Atlanta unless he has to.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamtheBravesFan View Post
    Why should Diaz kill the Braves? The only starting pitcher he could conceivably face is MInor and a couple of lefties in the pen. There's no way Manuel plays Diaz against Atlanta unless he has to.
    they were talking about it during the playoffs, of platooning a RH bat with brown in RF.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by chip&smoltz95 View Post
    they were talking about it during the playoffs, of platooning a RH bat with brown in RF.
    Yes, I remmeber, but you specifically said "kill the Braves" as if the Braves were going to regret letting him go, or killing them in head-to-head matchups.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamtheBravesFan View Post
    Yes, I remmeber, but you specifically said "kill the Braves" as if the Braves were going to regret letting him go, or killing them in head-to-head matchups.
    probably over-stated a bit, but i just figured he would beat us in a game or something.

  20. #60
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    That's a silly reason to keep him around, frankly. I could care less if Diaz joined the Phillies if he's leaving. The guy can mash when he's on, but he has to be used exclusively against left-handers or he's almost useless.

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