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Thread: Braves 2010/11 Offseason Thread

  1. #51
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    It might possibly benefit the Braves to hear advice from someone different. Larry Parrish is as good a hire as any; we just didn't expect it.

    As for the complaining about the type of hitter Parirsh was, that's absurd. The Braves just finished a season where they led the league in on-base percentage and Terry Pendleton is for from what anyone would call selective at the plate. In fact, the Braves ran the gamut from having a bare-bones offense to slugging the lights out under Pendleton.

  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by SamtheBravesFan View Post
    ... why do we need an "on base steal" threat? What is with people's obsession with that? What the Braves need are people who get on base, make consistent contact and are smart baserunners. They don't necessarily have to have "speed".
    I don't think it's a need. I just personally wish we would have an "on base steal" threat. Since when has Atlanta had a true leadoff man and steal threat? Since we had Furcal? I believe stealing bases can be a very useful weapon to use against teams especially when you get a chance to get an early jump on an opponent. Why not just steal sometimes instead of trying to bunt guys over when some guys can't get a bunt down and you're taking the bat out of their hand? Some guys are so double play prone you can just steal and get out of the possibility of a double play. I'm a huge fan of; hit and runs, steals, sacrificing, etc. That's just my personal opinion though.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyler4 View Post
    I don't think it's a need. I just personally wish we would have an "on base steal" threat. Since when has Atlanta had a true leadoff man and steal threat? Since we had Furcal? I believe stealing bases can be a very useful weapon to use against teams especially when you get a chance to get an early jump on an opponent. Why not just steal sometimes instead of trying to bunt guys over when some guys can't get a bunt down and you're taking the bat out of their hand? Some guys are so double play prone you can just steal and get out of the possibility of a double play. I'm a huge fan of; hit and runs, steals, sacrificing, etc. That's just my personal opinion though.
    Speed is a nice luxury but one that really isn't on the market, the best case scenario as I said before is the Red Sox signing Crawford and putting Ellsbury on the market but other then that you are at best looking at a highly flawed market for speed.

    Playing aggresively has nothing to do with speed (using hit and runs for example) because in reality having guys you trust will make contact is much more important for the hit and runs then anything else. The Braves just need more bats because after their top 4 it is all question marks and even the top 4 has problems (Chipper's injury risk, the fact McCann can't play everyday, and Prado coming off of injury), realistically the Braves should have enough room to add at least 1 bat but how competitive they are next year has a lot to do with major question marks at the bottom of the lineup.

    I keep trying to do a Mock Offseason but I just keep hitting a roadblock because the salary limit and the names that most think will be on the market are just not that good looking and almost all have major flaws. I really believe the only hope of the Braves adding a serious bat to this team is through a trade and I hope I'm correct in thinking that Wren's "We are hesistent to trade from out starting pitching because it is a strength" comment is more a smokescreen to keep everyone's value high then a something to purely take at face value.
    Extend Prado!!!

  4. #54
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    Some basic news for you guys.

    Something everyone expected to happen did as the Braves picked up Gonzalez's and Infante's options while declining Farnsworth and Ankiel's options.

    Some minor news as the Braves have claimed Joe Mather off of waivers from St. Louis. The Braves have been linked to Mather in the past, offensively he hasn't shown much except for some nice power but defensively he can play all positions in the outfield at what would appear to be at an average or better level. If the Braves non-tender Diaz and don't bring him back it likely is because they want a more defensive minded 4th OFer.

    Edit :: I was trying to think of another potential trade for the Braves and here is another one that I came up with.

    Rangers or some other team re/signs Cliff Lee :: This is key.

    Andy Pettitte Retires :: Not needed but would make it easier.

    Braves trade Eric O'Flaherty and Jair Jurrjens to the New York Yankees for Brett Gardner and Jonathan Albaladejo :: Braves would add a serious leadoff hitter not just in speed but with the ability to get on-base at a high rate, he also plays great defense in CF improving one of the Braves major weaknesses. The Braves also get Albaladejo who has been an average at best reliever in his small career thus far giving the Braves another potential middle relief arm and in the worst case scenario extra depth in the bullpen.

    The Yankees in my scenario clearly need a starter and the free agent market looks pretty barren (in the situation they have) so they look to the trade market. Jair is young relatively cheap (for the Yankees it looks like he is making nothing) and under control for 3 years. O'Flaherty adds a needed lefty to the Yankees Pen (Marte would appear to be out till late next year and Boone Logan is their only other lefty) and is cheap and under control for 3 years as well.

    The Braves benefit thanks to losing some salary while fixing one problem, it does weaken them in the rotation but not by a major amount and the Braves could shift the saved money to a free agent or another trade, the loss of EOF isn't huge because of Venters and the potential of Ortegano (I believe he takes the Venters route becoming a good reliever) Dunn already in the system.

    The Yankees while losing a quality OFer could easily shift gears from a big pitcher to someone like Jayson Werth or go semi-cheap with a Thames/and some lefty.

    Any Thoughts? I'll still try and come up with some other potential scenarios that could help the Braves.
    Last edited by PureBaseballFan; 11-03-2010 at 12:51 PM.
    Extend Prado!!!

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by PureBaseballFan View Post
    Some basic news for you guys.

    Something everyone expected to happen did as the Braves picked up Gonzalez's and Infante's options while declining Farnsworth and Ankiel's options.

    Some minor news as the Braves have claimed Joe Mather off of waivers from St. Louis. The Braves have been linked to Mather in the past, offensively he hasn't shown much except for some nice power but defensively he can play all positions in the outfield at what would appear to be at an average or better level. If the Braves non-tender Diaz and don't bring him back it likely is because they want a more defensive minded 4th OFer.

    Edit :: I was trying to think of another potential trade for the Braves and here is another one that I came up with.

    Rangers or some other team re/signs Cliff Lee :: This is key.

    Andy Pettitte Retires :: Not needed but would make it easier.

    Braves trade Eric O'Flaherty and Jair Jurrjens to the New York Yankees for Brett Gardner and Jonathan Albaladejo :: Braves would add a serious leadoff hitter not just in speed but with the ability to get on-base at a high rate, he also plays great defense in CF improving one of the Braves major weaknesses. The Braves also get Albaladejo who has been an average at best reliever in his small career thus far giving the Braves another potential middle relief arm and in the worst case scenario extra depth in the bullpen.

    The Yankees in my scenario clearly need a starter and the free agent market looks pretty barren (in the situation they have) so they look to the trade market. Jair is young relatively cheap (for the Yankees it looks like he is making nothing) and under control for 3 years. O'Flaherty adds a needed lefty to the Yankees Pen (Marte would appear to be out till late next year and Boone Logan is their only other lefty) and is cheap and under control for 3 years as well.

    The Braves benefit thanks to losing some salary while fixing one problem, it does weaken them in the rotation but not by a major amount and the Braves could shift the saved money to a free agent or another trade, the loss of EOF isn't huge because of Venters and the potential of Ortegano (I believe he takes the Venters route becoming a good reliever) Dunn already in the system.

    The Yankees while losing a quality OFer could easily shift gears from a big pitcher to someone like Jayson Werth or go semi-cheap with a Thames/and some lefty.

    Any Thoughts? I'll still try and come up with some other potential scenarios that could help the Braves.
    i like the idea of adding gardner, ellsbury or rasmus the most. that's assuming the braves don't get crawford. i am starting to wonder if werth isn't going to end up like jason bay (i.e overpaid and then struggling a bit)

    edit: i also think with mather being pickup up that diaz is likely gone and will probably sign with the phils and then kill us next year.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by chip&smoltz95 View Post
    i like the idea of adding gardner, ellsbury or rasmus the most. that's assuming the braves don't get crawford. i am starting to wonder if werth isn't going to end up like jason bay (i.e overpaid and then struggling a bit)

    edit: i also think with mather being pickup up that diaz is likely gone and will probably sign with the phils and then kill us next year.
    Why should Diaz kill the Braves? The only starting pitcher he could conceivably face is MInor and a couple of lefties in the pen. There's no way Manuel plays Diaz against Atlanta unless he has to.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamtheBravesFan View Post
    Why should Diaz kill the Braves? The only starting pitcher he could conceivably face is MInor and a couple of lefties in the pen. There's no way Manuel plays Diaz against Atlanta unless he has to.
    they were talking about it during the playoffs, of platooning a RH bat with brown in RF.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by chip&smoltz95 View Post
    they were talking about it during the playoffs, of platooning a RH bat with brown in RF.
    Yes, I remmeber, but you specifically said "kill the Braves" as if the Braves were going to regret letting him go, or killing them in head-to-head matchups.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamtheBravesFan View Post
    Yes, I remmeber, but you specifically said "kill the Braves" as if the Braves were going to regret letting him go, or killing them in head-to-head matchups.
    probably over-stated a bit, but i just figured he would beat us in a game or something.

  10. #60
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    That's a silly reason to keep him around, frankly. I could care less if Diaz joined the Phillies if he's leaving. The guy can mash when he's on, but he has to be used exclusively against left-handers or he's almost useless.

  11. #61
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    question regarding b.j. upton: is he really that much of an upgrade over where mclouth was at the time that we traded for him? I don't know if that's a good trade, especially if we have to give up an elite arm (which we didn't really have to do in the mclouth trade).

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by chip&smoltz95 View Post
    question regarding b.j. upton: is he really that much of an upgrade over where mclouth was at the time that we traded for him? I don't know if that's a good trade, especially if we have to give up an elite arm (which we didn't really have to do in the mclouth trade).
    The short answer: no.

    The long answer: Upton would be an upgrade in the outfield, only because the outfield outside of Heyward was so bad. However, his batting average has decreased each year since hitting .300 in 2007. His counting stats are superfically fine and his SB% was exquisite last year (42/51 = 82.4%). However his OBP is now bottomed out to .313 and .322 the last couple of seasons. I don't believe he's worth giving up anything of actual value. I'd much rather sign Coco Crisp than trade for Upton.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamtheBravesFan View Post
    The short answer: no.

    The long answer: Upton would be an upgrade in the outfield, only because the outfield outside of Heyward was so bad. However, his batting average has decreased each year since hitting .300 in 2007. His counting stats are superfically fine and his SB% was exquisite last year (42/51 = 82.4%). However his OBP is now bottomed out to .313 and .322 the last couple of seasons. I don't believe he's worth giving up anything of actual value. I'd much rather sign Coco Crisp than trade for Upton.
    i know mclouth didn't average probably as many steals per season, but wasn't that a point of success that he had as well? i agree though, I totally don't think he's worth a JJ, teheran, delgado, vizcaino or even a beachy or hoover.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by chip&smoltz95 View Post
    i know mclouth didn't average probably as many steals per season, but wasn't that a point of success that he had as well?
    McLouth didn't steal nearly as many bases as Upton, but his high success rate was much more consistent. He did steal seven of nine bases last season (77.8%). Ironically, his steal rate decreased dramatically once he got to Atlanta (7-7 with PIT in 2008, 12-18 (66.7%) with ATL after he was traded). Maybe Bobby just really didn't know when to send him.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamtheBravesFan View Post
    The short answer: no.

    The long answer: Upton would be an upgrade in the outfield, only because the outfield outside of Heyward was so bad. However, his batting average has decreased each year since hitting .300 in 2007. His counting stats are superfically fine and his SB% was exquisite last year (42/51 = 82.4%). However his OBP is now bottomed out to .313 and .322 the last couple of seasons. I don't believe he's worth giving up anything of actual value. I'd much rather sign Coco Crisp than trade for Upton.
    Crisp's option has already been picked up so that isn't an option.

    Quote Originally Posted by chip&smoltz95 View Post
    question regarding b.j. upton: is he really that much of an upgrade over where mclouth was at the time that we traded for him? I don't know if that's a good trade, especially if we have to give up an elite arm (which we didn't really have to do in the mclouth trade).
    Upton right now is not worth an Elite arm but his upside could be worth a quality arm. While he has declined the previous two years in major stats it is hard to overlook the numbers he put up at 22 and 23 in '07 and '08.

    To put it simply any trade for Upton is a risk with upside, the highest level pitcher I would offer would be J.J. Hoover but with the Rays depth in the rotation (they are looking to trade starter by all reports) I am guessing they would be looking for position players more then anything else.
    Extend Prado!!!

  16. #66
    whats up with ankiel?? I have heard that the Braves did not pick up his option and I have heard that they have....does anyone know for sure? I would like to see us keep him in some aspect.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlondon View Post
    whats up with ankiel?? I have heard that the Braves did not pick up his option and I have heard that they have....does anyone know for sure? I would like to see us keep him in some aspect.
    They didn't and I doubt they bring him back.
    Extend Prado!!!

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by PureBaseballFan View Post
    To put it simply any trade for Upton is a risk with upside, the highest level pitcher I would offer would be J.J. Hoover but with the Rays depth in the rotation (they are looking to trade starter by all reports) I am guessing they would be looking for position players more then anything else.
    I agree with your assessment of BJU and the possiblity of a trade for him. Do you think the Rays would be looking for a prospect position player or someone more established? Any suggestions about who could fill either bill?

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Los Bravos View Post
    I agree with your assessment of BJU and the possiblity of a trade for him. Do you think the Rays would be looking for a prospect position player or someone more established? Any suggestions about who could fill either bill?
    I could see them looking for a more "established" player in the OF or at 1B but considering the Braves need an OFer that really doesn't match up well. The Rays have no real need to unload Upton unless they are cutting payroll and still need to move someone after trading one of their starters.

    If they want more real prospects even then there aren't a ton of option as far as valuable prospects (not named Freeman). The Braves just aren't swimming in position prospects like a lot of times this decade, the Braves make their money developing pitching prospects with the occasional big time position prospect (McCann, Andrus, Heyward), the only guy that might draw some serious interest is Christian Bethancourt but I would prefer to see the Braves hang onto him because his value could skyrocket quickly as a catcher.
    Extend Prado!!!

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Los Bravos View Post
    I agree with your assessment of BJU and the possiblity of a trade for him. Do you think the Rays would be looking for a prospect position player or someone more established? Any suggestions about who could fill either bill?
    Quote Originally Posted by PureBaseballFan View Post
    I could see them looking for a more "established" player in the OF or at 1B but considering the Braves need an OFer that really doesn't match up well. The Rays have no real need to unload Upton unless they are cutting payroll and still need to move someone after trading one of their starters.

    If they want more real prospects even then there aren't a ton of option as far as valuable prospects (not named Freeman). The Braves just aren't swimming in position prospects like a lot of times this decade, the Braves make their money developing pitching prospects with the occasional big time position prospect (McCann, Andrus, Heyward), the only guy that might draw some serious interest is Christian Bethancourt but I would prefer to see the Braves hang onto him because his value could skyrocket quickly as a catcher.
    what about cory Harrilchak? he's playing pretty well in the AFL (yes, i know offensive is usually high here) and then maybe have to give up schafer too. I heard the rays were looking for elite prospect to unload upton. I just don't think he's worth it when he could end up being mclouth.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by chip&smoltz95 View Post
    what about cory Harrilchak? he's playing pretty well in the AFL (yes, i know offensive is usually high here) and then maybe have to give up schafer too. I heard the rays were looking for elite prospect to unload upton. I just don't think he's worth it when he could end up being mclouth.
    Cory could have some value but he isn't going to draw a ton of value for a few reasons.

    I don't disagree that giving up something elite for Upton is risky but at 26 and with some quality seasons in the past the potential reward could be worth it. I personally wouldn't do any trade for any Upton not named Justin and that isn't happening.
    Extend Prado!!!

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by PureBaseballFan View Post
    Cory could have some value but he isn't going to draw a ton of value for a few reasons.

    I don't disagree that giving up something elite for Upton is risky but at 26 and with some quality seasons in the past the potential reward could be worth it. I personally wouldn't do any trade for any Upton not named Justin and that isn't happening.
    according to bowman the braves don't have much interest in trading for upton. probably his questionable production combined with some attitude problems, being the main reasons I would guess. Also, that don't seem at all keen on trading JJ, KK looks like he might not be a lock to be traded and I don't think the braves should try and trade lowe. For two reasons, one the braves will still have to eat a good chunk of his salary and he's not gonna bring much back. Also, I think he's leadership and the way he pitched in the playoffs could be good for the remainder of his contract.

  23. #73
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    well, kk has been optioned to the AA team. i thought there was something in his contract about having to approve a move to the minors?

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by chip&smoltz95 View Post
    well, kk has been optioned to the AA team. i thought there was something in his contract about having to approve a move to the minors?
    No, I don't see anything about that.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Morosi View Post
    http://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/4581620195532800
    well, if it's true. there you go PBF.

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