View Poll Results: Will Ryan Braun make the HOF?

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  • Yes, his numbers will be deserving of a place in the HOF

    16 29.63%
  • No, his numbers will not merit HOF induction

    38 70.37%
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Thread: Ryan Braun

  1. #101
    Updated career projections, using Bill James' Favorite Toy:

    1,901 G
    8,327 PA
    7,511 AB
    1,318 R
    2,363 H
    493 2B
    59 3B
    384 HR
    1,354 RBI
    247 SB
    61 CS
    668 BB
    1,392 K
    .315 BA
    Last edited by Cowtipper; 01-11-2012 at 07:09 AM.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowtipper View Post
    Updated career projections, using Bill James' Favorite Toy:

    1,901 G
    8,327 PA
    7,511 AB
    1,318 R
    2,363 H
    493 2B
    59 2B
    384 HR
    1,354 RBI
    247 SB
    61 CS
    668 BB
    1,392 K
    I don't know if that's a HOF line in this day-and-age, especially for a slugging corner OF. And that's ignoring the controversial failed test, which some people are unfazed by and others are up in arms.

    Does BJ's Favorite Toy produce rate stats?

  3. #103
    he better finds a very good explanation for this test. otherwise no chance if you see how much better cheaters are treated.
    I think walks are overrated unless you can run. If you get a walk and put the pitcher in a stretch, that helps, but the guy who walks and cant run, most of the time hes clogging up the bases for somebody who can run. Dusty Baker.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Cowtipper View Post
    Updated career projections, using Bill James' Favorite Toy:

    1,901 G
    8,327 PA
    7,511 AB
    1,318 R
    2,363 H
    493 2B
    59 3B
    384 HR
    1,354 RBI
    247 SB
    61 CS
    668 BB
    1,392 K
    .315 BA
    I tend to question the motives of the person bumping these threads when they bump 10 of them in one day.

    Here is the direct link to Bill James' favorite toy for anyone who wants to look at the myriad of average players currently active though out the various levels of professional baseball and see where their careers can potentially go:

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/billjames
    Last edited by jjpm74; 01-11-2012 at 02:16 PM.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by jjpm74 View Post
    I tend to question the motives of the person bumping these threads when they bump 10 of them in one day.

    Here is the direct link to Bill James' favorite toy for anyone who wants to look at the myriad of average players currently active though out the various levels of professional baseball and see where their careers can potentially go:

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/billjames
    The motive was boredom.

  6. #106
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    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/0...rade+Rumors%29

    Appeal successful; suspension overturned!!

  7. #107
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    The report says it was because the chain of custody was broken ie: test prosessor incompetence. So the mystery remains. Did he fail anyway or was the sample tampered with (which is why you have to prove the chain of custody every step of the way). Can he shoot whoever let the news out since he can never get his reputation back and "legally" he is "innocent."

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by PVNICK View Post
    The report says it was because the chain of custody was broken ie: test prosessor incompetence. So the mystery remains. Did he fail anyway or was the sample tampered with (which is why you have to prove the chain of custody every step of the way). Can he shoot whoever let the news out since he can never get his reputation back and "legally" he is "innocent."
    He's not allowed to shoot that jerk, of course. If we allowed the shooting of people who acted like jerks, the bodies would pile up fast. He could sue MLB if he wanted to, but unless he is truly innocent rather than not guilty due to a technicality, he wouldn't want to do that. If he did, MLB and/or the perpetrator, if he/she could be ID'd, would almost have to contest how much this report unfairly damaged Braun's reputation, which would be the main element determining how much money he'd win. If it's true he juiced, the damage would likely be seen as minimal. If he didn't, the damage is rather significant.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  9. #109
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    I think Braun should revert to the same benefit-of-the-doubt as every other player in MLB at this point.

    Who knows how many vials of urine were in that guy's refrigerator? Maybe they got mixed up, maybe it was tampered with, maybe, maybe, maybe,...

    All we know for certain is that MLB screwed up the chain of custody, and screwed up worse when the results of the test leaked.

    Regardless, Braun has been punished enough if he's guilty with the damage to his reputation, and if he's innocent he has suffered a grievous wrong.

  10. #110
    Great job by Bud Selig protecting his Brewers players.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cougar View Post
    I think Braun should revert to the same benefit-of-the-doubt as every other player in MLB at this point.

    .
    I don't know how any MLB player could get the benefit of the doubt regarding PEDs. I'm extremely skeptical of any MLB player who denies using PEDs.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdTarbusz View Post
    I don't know how any MLB player could get the benefit of the doubt regarding PEDs. I'm extremely skeptical of any MLB player who denies using PEDs.
    While I understand the skepticism on Braun under the circumstances, what you said above means you're skeptical of everyone who's been asked the question, which is most of them. IMHO, that's not right.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdTarbusz View Post
    I don't know how any MLB player could get the benefit of the doubt regarding PEDs. I'm extremely skeptical of any MLB player who denies using PEDs.
    We've all got our individual ratios of trust and skepticism. You're more skeptical than I am, and that's OK. I just don't think we ought to be more or less trusting of Braun re. PEDs than we should be of, say, Matt Kemp. He's earned whatever benefit of the doubt Player X enjoys, which may be a lot or a little depending on the individual.
    Last edited by Cougar; 02-25-2012 at 09:32 AM.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cougar View Post
    We've all got our individual ratios of trust and skepticism. You're more skeptical than I am, and that's OK. I just don't think we ought to be more or less trusting of Braun re. PEDs than we should be of, say, Matt Kemp. He's earned whatever benefit of the doubt Player X enjoys, which may be a lot or a little depending on the individual.
    In this case, I can't quite go that far. Braun was declared not guilty because MLB messed up. That entitles him to more deference than many named in the Mitchell report, for instance, but less than someone who has never had a positive test result. Now, if more comes out to discredit the MLB procedures, I might go as far as you, but on the record at this point, I wouldn't. OTOH, I'm not one to automatically exclude everyone who ever tested positive, either.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cougar View Post
    We've all got our individual ratios of trust and skepticism. You're more skeptical than I am, and that's OK. I just don't think we ought to be more or less trusting of Braun re. PEDs than we should be of, say, Matt Kemp. He's earned whatever benefit of the doubt Player X enjoys, which may be a lot or a little depending on the individual.
    My level of trust of Kemp is the same as it is with Braun. I don't think any player is above suspicion.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalbright View Post
    While I understand the skepticism on Braun under the circumstances, what you said above means you're skeptical of everyone who's been asked the question, which is most of them. IMHO, that's not right.
    I'm skeptical of every MLB player who has played since 1998. I'm not going to accuse a player of using but I doubt if I would believe a player who denied using after he tested positive.

  17. #117
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    Can I change my vote?
    "Tactics were resorted to, unworthy of fair, manly players" - Brooklyn Eagle, June 12,1890

  18. #118
    As been repeated countless times before, way too early to tell and almost ridiculous to predict, another cliche "Anything can happen".
    Those rate statistics will definitely be dropping the longer his career goes, and I dont think he'll keep his .300 career average. Every player to have played the game has had several bad seasons (relative to their expected performance) which will certainly water down the numbers, well, except for Pujols and Gehrig, but them are only two people in a pool of thousands. I just pronounce "pool" twice there
    He's already shown the ability to hit under 300 and post a mediocre on-base in a previous season.
    If a player does post numbers like his year in and year out with a Steady Eddie like consistency around 20 years, then yea, HOF.

  19. #119
    He's having another thoroughly excellent year, but his relatively late start (age 23) may hurt him. He's past the 'magical' age 27 mark and the exit of his prime isn't too far away. He's going to have to age really well to become a Hall of Famer.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowtipper View Post
    He's having another thoroughly excellent year, but his relatively late start (age 23) may hurt him. He's past the 'magical' age 27 mark and the exit of his prime isn't too far away. He's going to have to age really well to become a Hall of Famer.
    He still has another 3-4 seasons of "prime" left. What do you consider "aging really well" to be? Say for instance from age 33 on?

    A. .300 AVG, 200 HR, 600 RBI?
    B. .295 AVG, 175 HR, 550 RBI?
    C. .290 AVG, 150 HR, 500 RBI?
    D. .285 AVG, 125 HR, 450 RBI?
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    "A ballplayer has to just go out and be mean. You can't play half-heartedly. If you do, there's someone right over your shoulder that'll take your job away. If you don't do your job, what they're paying you for, why should they pay you? You just can't put in eight hours, that's what a lot of people don't realize about athletes. Very few people realize the pressure." Dave Kingman

  21. #121
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    The poll choices are too narrow. How can anyone know if a player's numbers will or will not merit induction if he hasn't even finished his 6th season? Albert Belle and Dale Murphy were good for a while, too, but I wouldn't put them in the HoF.
    "Allen Sutton Sothoron pitched his initials off today."--1920s article

  22. #122
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    Three or four more seasons similar to his last few, followed by a not-too-swift decline and I think Braun will be a pretty easy HOFer.

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by GiambiJuice View Post
    Three or four more seasons similar to his last few, followed by a not-too-swift decline and I think Braun will be a pretty easy HOFer.
    The elephant in the room says hi.

  24. #124
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    He will not be a HOF'er but not solely for the reason that his numbers won't be good enough (which they won't be)
    "Herman Franks to Sal Yvars to Bobby Thomson. Ralph Branca to Bobby Thomson to Helen Rita... cue Russ Hodges."

  25. #125
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    I voted yes at the time, obviously I would vote no, now, knowing what I know now that I know it.
    "Tactics were resorted to, unworthy of fair, manly players" - Brooklyn Eagle, June 12,1890

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