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Thread: throwing acrosss the body in pitching?

  1. #1

    throwing acrosss the body in pitching?

    I have heard an MLB commentator say that a pitcher is "throwing across his body". He said this is a good thing because the ball will fly in an angle to the plate instead of straight to the hitter, making it more difficult when the FB flies hard away or hard in to the batter.

    What do you think? Is this an important quality in pitching?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by dominik View Post
    I have heard an MLB commentator say that a pitcher is "throwing across his body". He said this is a good thing because the ball will fly in an angle to the plate instead of straight to the hitter, making it more difficult when the FB flies hard away or hard in to the batter.

    What do you think? Is this an important quality in pitching?
    Kind of like Madison Bumgarner? If you can do it accurately, it may be harder to hit. However, I don’t know if I would try to throw this way if it is not your natural delivery.

  3. #3
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    Dom,

    I have heard an MLB commentator say that a pitcher is "throwing across his body"
    All traditional pitchers perform this injurious mechanic recovery position because of the preceding centrifugal mechanic. Injuries you can expect are, posterior labrum tears, anterior labrum tears, bicep and bracialis tendon pinch and overstress where it attaches through the edge of the labrum and into the glenoid fossa, deceleration muscle tears in the small Teres minor and one of the worst ones in youth pitchers is “LL shoulder” where the humerus levers over and against the pech over stressing and sometimes breaking the very large proximal humeral growth plate.

    “He said this is a good thing because the ball will fly in an angle to the plate instead of straight to the hitter”
    This would be why you should not be listening to non-credentialed so called experts discuss mechanics when they have proven to be in the past and still continue with their “yard myth” mechanical explanations of how thing work that keep the injury rates at a high level.

    What do you think?
    I think proper force application resulting in proper recovery positions that also allow you to be in the best position to defend and avoid line drives back at your dome are optimal. By staying tall, attaining a high humeral vector during ball drive and throwing your hand directly at the target by pronating your drive and release, rotating your shoulders 180 degrees with your arm (Humerus) staying in alignment with your shoulders.

    “Is this an important quality in pitching?”
    Absolutely not, this is not normally taught anyways and has always been put in the realm of seemingly unimportant and non-injurious when the opposite is actually true.
    By performing the standard traditional over early rotated shoulder rotations from the leg lifted gateway the shoulders then never finish fully rotated at the end causing this “across the body “ finish from the shoulders only attaining about 90 to 110 degrees of rotational finish causing this poor postural finish.
    “the first left turn circuit”

  4. #4
    Dirt I agree with you from the injury standpoint. for sure throwing across the body can create those problems.

    But ignoring injury and just considering difficulty to hit coulnd't it be right that a bal that has an angle into or away from the plate be harder to hit? for example a ball that travels away from the RHB and only catches the outside of the plate can be very hard to hit.

    I think this angle to the batter is the main advantage sidearm throwers have.

    This is on wikipedia about randy
    "Due to his height, long arms, and side-arm pitching, Johnson's pitches appear as if they are coming from the first base side of the mound, easily deceiving left-handed hitters. This deceives the hitter into thinking that Johnson is pitching from closer than he actually is. However, with the decline in his fastball's velocity, right-handed batters had greater success in noticing his release point and hitting his pitches"

    The injury thing is of course a problem that has to be considered.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by dominik View Post
    "Due to his height, long arms, and side-arm pitching, Johnson's pitches appear as if they are coming from the first base side of the mound, easily deceiving left-handed hitters. This deceives the hitter into thinking that Johnson is pitching from closer than he actually is. However, with the decline in his fastball's velocity, right-handed batters had greater success in noticing his release point and hitting his pitches"
    This doesn't make any sense.

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    Angry

    Quote Originally Posted by dominik View Post
    Dirt I agree with you from the injury standpoint. for sure throwing across the body can create those problems.

    But ignoring injury and just considering difficulty to hit coulnd't it be right that a bal that has an angle into or away from the plate be harder to hit? for example a ball that travels away from the RHB and only catches the outside of the plate can be very hard to hit.

    I think this angle to the batter is the main advantage sidearm throwers have.

    This is on wikipedia about randy
    "Due to his height, long arms, and side-arm pitching, Johnson's pitches appear as if they are coming from the first base side of the mound, easily deceiving left-handed hitters. This deceives the hitter into thinking that Johnson is pitching from closer than he actually is. However, with the decline in his fastball's velocity, right-handed batters had greater success in noticing his release point and hitting his pitches"

    The injury thing is of course a problem that has to be considered.
    Bingo! Because that pulling action can lengthen the Gleno-Humeral Ligaments in the front of his pitching shoulder, a pitcher who throws that way will eventually no longer generate the pitching arm speed that he needs to throw that pitch.

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    Dom,

    Those are great points on angles and how batters perceive velocity, also movement, Madison Bumgarner who does not have high measured velocity just showed us how he has an advantage over lefty batters but this is true and has always been known and why opposite the throwing arm batters have a greater advantage.
    All things considered Tim Lincecum pitches from the a centered vertical Humeral/forearm ball driveline and does pretty well plus he has the ability by doing this to get the ball to move more prominently to both sides than the 5/8’s guys like Johnson and Bumgarner plus eliminates many of the injurious effects.
    “the first left turn circuit”

  8. #8
    Are there any pitchers that throw a ball that breaks to the pitching arm side(at least in the MLB)?

    Most pitches I know break to the Glove arm side.

    Which pitches break to the PAS?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by dominik View Post
    Which pitches break to the PAS?
    Pretty much anything that's pronated.

    2-seamers, change-ups, screwballs.

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    Dom,

    Are there any pitchers that throw a ball that breaks to the pitching arm side(at least in the MLB)?
    10 years ago there were very few (accept fastballs) but now there is a new proliferation in pronated (ulnar flexed wrist joint) pitches, Sinkers, circle changes and fastballs any seam configuration. The Screwball was thrown more in the distant past and will also make a comeback!

    ”Most pitches I know break to the Glove arm side.”
    As Marshall has proven even these pitches can be pronated that makes it possible to pronate (radial flexed wrist joint) all your pitches even the Cutter (4 or 2 seam), Slider (4 or 2 seam) and Curve (always 4 seam) although the curve is very difficult to perform pronated if you have been proprioceptivly (muscle memory) pre-programmed to supinate it, Newbe kids always perform it better.

    As in the pronation thread it must be emphasized that this most important tenet that all pitches can be pronated be taught because it a non-injurious gateway mechanic.
    I still hear top pitching coaches out here say the opposite. They could not be more destructive in their beliefs!!!!
    “the first left turn circuit”

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris O'Leary View Post
    Originally Posted by dominik "Due to his height, long arms, and side-arm pitching, Johnson's pitches appear as if they are coming from the first base side of the mound, easily deceiving left-handed hitters. This deceives the hitter into thinking that Johnson is pitching from closer than he actually is. However, with the decline in his fastball's velocity, right-handed batters had greater success in noticing his release point and hitting his pitches"
    This doesn't make any sense.
    It's from Wikipedia, fer cryin' out loud.

    Harley said: Bingo! Because that pulling action can lengthen the Gleno-Humeral Ligaments in the front of his pitching shoulder, a pitcher who throws that way will eventually no longer generate the pitching arm speed that he needs to throw that pitch.
    But, yeah, too bad Johnson had that bad motion, otherwise he'd still be throwing that 97 MPH heater today, instead of having to cut his career short as a young stripling, with only 305 wins. Oh, and tell Javier Lopez of the Giants to knock off that sidearm motion of his, too. I'm sure Ryan Howard and Josh Hamilton would be more than happy to pay for the cost of the call.

    Oh, and the reason that the Republicans took over control of the House of Representatives last Tuesday was because Obama hasn't been using Marshall mechanics when he's been throwing out the first pitch at Washington Nationals games.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ursa Major View Post
    Oh, and the reason that the Republicans took over control of the House of Representatives last Tuesday was because Obama hasn't been using Marshall mechanics when he's been throwing out the first pitch at Washington Nationals games.
    I thought that was Marshall mechanics.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris O'Leary View Post
    Pretty much anything that's pronated.

    2-seamers, change-ups, screwballs.
    Chris,

    Any idea how much spin is imparted on these pronated pitches--i.e., how many revolutions on the way to the plate?

    How does this compare to amount of spin on a supinated pitch (e.g., a slider, etc.)?
    Skip

  14. #14
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    Skipper5,

    ”How does this compare to amount of spin on a supinated pitch (e.g., a slider, etc.)?”
    Marshall used to take 500 frames a second pin slotted film at entry and compares the spin ratios later after the clients have learned the pronated curve and has found out that this pitch almost doubles the spin ratio of the injurious supinated version. The other pitches remain similar.
    Last edited by Dirtberry; 11-09-2010 at 09:44 AM.
    “the first left turn circuit”

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