OK, Alderson made his choice on who will fill out line-ups cards and call for the hit and run. Now let's get working on the ones who will really determine winning and losing - the players.
Registered User
OK, Alderson made his choice on who will fill out line-ups cards and call for the hit and run. Now let's get working on the ones who will really determine winning and losing - the players.
Registered User
This has been the best off-season in team history. If you're unhappy with Alderson and staff, you're just unhappy. Perhaps you'd like Omar back? Alderson hires Collins, I'm happy. Not because I am familiar with Collins, but because I'm familiar with Alderson. Sit back, shut up and enjoy the fact that we are no longer a laughingstock organization.
Last edited by Gr8Beldini; 11-21-2010 at 06:07 PM.
"We have a plan; and I like our plan." ...Omar
"I belive in our minor leagers; and I like our minor leagers." ...Omar
Paulypal
I'm starting to like you.Originally Posted by metfan13
Registered User
Odd, I was just thinking the other day that I notice myself actually reading your posts again and agreeing with much of what you're writing.
Registered User
I think I read it in the daily news, that some thought he was too intense and moody....Who knows in the end.
New York (N.L.)
1888, 1889, 1904, 1905, 1911, 1912, 1913, 1917, 1921, 1922, 1923, 1924, 1933, 1936, 1937, 1951, 1954, 1969, 1973, 1986, 2000
Brooklyn (N.L.)
1890, 1899, 1900, 1916, 1920, 1941, 1947, 1949, 1952, 1953, 1955, 1956
New York (A.A.) 1884 Brooklyn (A.A.) 1889
Registered User
You're right, I shouldn't start a smear campaign. I want the guy to succeed. It just worries me, that it seems this guy hasn't been successful and has left a bad taste with every team he's managed. I haven't heard that he's a great strategist, players seem to not like playing for the guy, and his best attributes are he's an intense guy, and the front office people he's worked for love him....and that he's good at overseeing an organizations farmclubs.
New York (N.L.)
1888, 1889, 1904, 1905, 1911, 1912, 1913, 1917, 1921, 1922, 1923, 1924, 1933, 1936, 1937, 1951, 1954, 1969, 1973, 1986, 2000
Brooklyn (N.L.)
1890, 1899, 1900, 1916, 1920, 1941, 1947, 1949, 1952, 1953, 1955, 1956
New York (A.A.) 1884 Brooklyn (A.A.) 1889
Registered User
Anybody ever notice that Davey Johnson was the last Mets manager that got fired by the Mets and went on to manage another MLB club?
Buddy Harrelson
Jeff Torborg
Dallas Green
Bobby Valentine
Art Howe
Willie Randolph
Jerry Manuel - possibly the next victim
Thats 20 years of manager careers coming to an end once the Mets touched em.
Bobby V may break that streak eventually...
New York (N.L.)
1888, 1889, 1904, 1905, 1911, 1912, 1913, 1917, 1921, 1922, 1923, 1924, 1933, 1936, 1937, 1951, 1954, 1969, 1973, 1986, 2000
Brooklyn (N.L.)
1890, 1899, 1900, 1916, 1920, 1941, 1947, 1949, 1952, 1953, 1955, 1956
New York (A.A.) 1884 Brooklyn (A.A.) 1889
Registered User
I know Jeff Torbog managed the Marlins so you're wrong there.
Registered User
He did! ur right about that.....you got me there. Shoot, I thought I had a great trivia question on my hands.
So it's been 18 years since a fired Met manager got another managing gig in MLB. Still pretty impressive.
New York (N.L.)
1888, 1889, 1904, 1905, 1911, 1912, 1913, 1917, 1921, 1922, 1923, 1924, 1933, 1936, 1937, 1951, 1954, 1969, 1973, 1986, 2000
Brooklyn (N.L.)
1890, 1899, 1900, 1916, 1920, 1941, 1947, 1949, 1952, 1953, 1955, 1956
New York (A.A.) 1884 Brooklyn (A.A.) 1889
I for one have no knowledge whatsoever of Tom Collins, but I will reserve my judgement until I see him, hear what he has to say, and see his style of managing.
You must pick battles that are small enough to win, but large enough to matter
Paulypal
That is pretty impressive. Although Bobby V will manage again, but thats still 5 out of 7 that never did. "The Mets -- where managers go to die".
Paulypal
If the players play well and win Collins is good..if they dont than he isnt. Thats just the way it goes. Baseball managers have the least amount to do with the outcome of a game as opposed to other sports. When I see a horse riding a jockey I will think differently.
In my opinion Jim Leyland has been one of the best managers in baseball for a really long time, and he has one WS win. The same could be said for Mike Scioscia. Is anyone going to tell me that Joe Torre is nearly as good as these guys despite having 4 WS wins? If either one was the Yankee manager they easily win the same four and win in 2004 as well which Torre made a complete abortion of. He should have been fired after 2004 in my opinion. He was horrendous against the Sox. As little as a baseball manager can affect a game Torre did in a negative manor enough to cost them the series. My point is its all about timing. Torre was in the right place at the right time.
Registered User
Bingo - exactly right. An aging, pissed off, media-unfriendly fake disciplinarian without even the single success Dallas Green once had. What a disaster.
Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.
Registered User
No, I'm entirely realistic. And yes, based on this decision alone - he's made zero player moves of note - Alderson's not as good as Minaya. Omar would have pressed the Bobby V. button and quickly (or gone for Backman, who will emerge as one of the best manager for somebody else), and the Mets would be competitive next year even with very limited starting pitching. What we've got now is a guy players hate to play for.
Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.
Rozay.
Just call me a sports fan.
Rozay.
Thank you for realizing its the PLAYERS, NOT THE MANAGER, that matters.
Just call me a sports fan.
Registered User
Yah, yah you're right - manager don't manage at all - have no effect whatsoever on a season. I withdraw my complaint. Happy to have this angry, older Collins fellow pose in uniform for two years.
Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.
Registered User
I just posted this elsewhere:
The team is in a rebuilding phase. Collins is in for 2 years so that all the CRAP that Omar heaped on this team can be swept away without the real manager being saddled with 1-2 losing seasons like we should be expecting.
Do you really want Wally or say Bob V starting off year One of their new Mets reign with a sub 500 record???? I can just imagine what most Mets fans would be like when Wally would have been sub .500 in 2011. (Yes you can book on it happening with what Omar has left this team, especially with Santana gone till July or beyond.)
I'd rather the post transitional manager start off 0-0 when Omar's crap contracts are gone or traded.
Last edited by cringey; 11-21-2010 at 08:18 PM.
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I have been to:
Citi Field, Shea, NYS, RYS, PNC, Fenway, AT&T, CBP, Wrigley, Dodger Stadium, Angel Stadium of Anaheim, PETCO Park, OP@CY, U.S.F., Comerica, Nationals Park, GABP, Progressive, Trop, Miller, Oakland-A C., Miami, RFK, Metrodome
Coming soon: Summer 2013: Minute Maid Park, Arlington ?
Paulypal
Alderson is not as good as Minaya? Either your taking serious drugs or you need them. Minaya was an embarassment. Alderson helped build some good teams with 1/3 the Met budget. You already know the players hate Collins. Collins has a rep as a tough hard nose guy.......I thought this was the reason everyone wants trailer trash as the manager to flip a table then sit down and have a six pack?
Metsistentialist Thinker
So you believe we should treat the Jerry Manuels and Dalls Greens the same as we would the John McGraws and Casey Stengels?
Managers DO impact the game, and if you want to tell me "McGraw had great players, anyone can win with them," remember that McGraw also MOLDED his players...
The same way there's a world of difference between a Vince Lombardi and a Dennis Erickson--Lombardi had good players, but that's definitely somewhat due to the way he trained them, the way he fashioned a working relationship between himself and Bart Starr...
The way good managers and their captains and star pitchers work together to coax that little extra effort out of the others that makes the difference between making the playoffs and falling just short.
"Ya Gotta Believe!" -Tug McGraw ... "How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life." -James T. Kirk ... "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -Sherlock Holmes ... "It is out of the deepest depth that the highest must come to its height." -Friedrich Nietzsche ... "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Retired User
Casey Stengel is a bad example. When he didn't manage the Yankees, his record was 756-1146. Pretty much proves the opposite of the point you're trying to make; managers are only as good as the names on the lineup card.
"I'm happy for [Edwin Encarnacion] because this guy bleeds internally, big-time" -Dusty Baker
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it on the scoreboard?" -Jeff Francoeur
"At the end of the day, the sun comes up and I still have a job" -Joba Chamberlain
Registered User
Not only that, why are the Wilpons paying Sandy Alderson and his crew to interview angry old men to pose in a uniform for the next two years? If the manager isn't that important and it's all about the players, then why spend so much wasted time with a bunch of stiffs?
I don't get it.
Registered User
Personally, I could not care if the media dislikes a manager; being media friendly does not put W's on the board. And the Club Mets attitude needs to change also. The Mets may need strict no nonsense guys during a time when they need to completely overhaul the franchise. The team can't have players running the franchise. Hopefully the days of a pitcher refusing to go to Triple A to work on his game, or a relief pitcher beating up his girl friend's father in front of other players wives and kids, are over.
Fans may like former players (especially former Mets) to come back and manage, but Wally needs to manage above rookie half season ball. Let him do some stints in double A and then triple A; then see what his track record is.
Even the media can't predict what type of a manager someone will turn out to be. Back around 1930, Babe Ruth wanted the Yankees to make him player-manager but the NYY brass knew better. They picked a guy named Joe McCarthy instead, a guy known as a 'busher' because he only played in the minors. All McCarthy did was lead the team to 7 WS and 8 pennants.
I am not suggesting Collins will end up doing this, but I hope he does !
Registered User
Omar would have pressed the Manny Acta button and quickly.
"We have a plan; and I like our plan." ...Omar
"I belive in our minor leagers; and I like our minor leagers." ...Omar
Registered User
For what it's worth Collins has a winning record as a major league manager.
Not that it's worth much.
But wasting breath whining about the manager is pointless. Especially when your preferred option (Backman) is a complete guess as a major leaguer. There's no idea how his act plays at a higher level.
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