Page 3 of 71 FirstFirst 123451353 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 1403

Thread: The Sandy Alderson Thread

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Brooklyn, New York
    Posts
    709
    Quote Originally Posted by metfan13 View Post
    OK, Alderson made his choice on who will fill out line-ups cards and call for the hit and run. Now let's get working on the ones who will really determine winning and losing - the players.
    Thank you for realizing its the PLAYERS, NOT THE MANAGER, that matters.
    Just call me a sports fan.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by AJbaseball00024 View Post
    If you think the manager can effect the win/loss total of a team, there is nothing I can do to help you. You are hopeless.
    Yah, yah you're right - manager don't manage at all - have no effect whatsoever on a season. I withdraw my complaint. Happy to have this angry, older Collins fellow pose in uniform for two years.
    Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Western Central, NJ
    Posts
    170
    I just posted this elsewhere:

    The team is in a rebuilding phase. Collins is in for 2 years so that all the CRAP that Omar heaped on this team can be swept away without the real manager being saddled with 1-2 losing seasons like we should be expecting.

    Do you really want Wally or say Bob V starting off year One of their new Mets reign with a sub 500 record???? I can just imagine what most Mets fans would be like when Wally would have been sub .500 in 2011. (Yes you can book on it happening with what Omar has left this team, especially with Santana gone till July or beyond.)

    I'd rather the post transitional manager start off 0-0 when Omar's crap contracts are gone or traded.
    Last edited by cringey; 11-21-2010 at 08:18 PM.
    ------------
    I have been to:

    Citi Field, Shea, NYS, RYS, PNC, Fenway, AT&T, CBP, Rangers Ballpark, Minute Maid Park, Wrigley, Dodger Stadium, Angel Stadium of Anaheim, PETCO Park, Coors, Chase Field, Turner, Miami, OP@CY, U.S.F., Comerica, Nationals Park, GABP, Progressive, Trop, Miller, Oakland-A C., Dolphin, RFK, Olympic Stadium, Metrodome

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Long Island
    Posts
    8,599
    Quote Originally Posted by Strawman View Post
    No, I'm entirely realistic. And yes, based on this decision alone - he's made zero player moves of note - Alderson's not as good as Minaya. Omar would have pressed the Bobby V. button and quickly (or gone for Backman, who will emerge as one of the best manager for somebody else), and the Mets would be competitive next year even with very limited starting pitching. What we've got now is a guy players hate to play for.
    Alderson is not as good as Minaya? Either your taking serious drugs or you need them. Minaya was an embarassment. Alderson helped build some good teams with 1/3 the Met budget. You already know the players hate Collins. Collins has a rep as a tough hard nose guy.......I thought this was the reason everyone wants trailer trash as the manager to flip a table then sit down and have a six pack?

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles County
    Posts
    2,617
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulypal View Post
    If the players play well they will win. If they dont they wont. Its really a simple game. The day I see a manager give up a homer, make an error, or strikeout is the day I will give the manager more credit or blame.
    So you believe we should treat the Jerry Manuels and Dalls Greens the same as we would the John McGraws and Casey Stengels?

    Managers DO impact the game, and if you want to tell me "McGraw had great players, anyone can win with them," remember that McGraw also MOLDED his players...

    The same way there's a world of difference between a Vince Lombardi and a Dennis Erickson--Lombardi had good players, but that's definitely somewhat due to the way he trained them, the way he fashioned a working relationship between himself and Bart Starr...

    The way good managers and their captains and star pitchers work together to coax that little extra effort out of the others that makes the difference between making the playoffs and falling just short.
    "Ya Gotta Believe!" -Tug McGraw ... "How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life." -James T. Kirk ... "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -Sherlock Holmes ... "It is out of the deepest depth that the highest must come to its height." -Friedrich Nietzsche ... "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    5,539
    Casey Stengel is a bad example. When he didn't manage the Yankees, his record was 756-1146. Pretty much proves the opposite of the point you're trying to make; managers are only as good as the names on the lineup card.
    "I'm happy for [Edwin Encarnacion] because this guy bleeds internally, big-time" -Dusty Baker

    "If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it on the scoreboard?" -Jeff Francoeur

    "At the end of the day, the sun comes up and I still have a job" -Joba Chamberlain

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Strawman View Post
    Yah, yah you're right - manager don't manage at all - have no effect whatsoever on a season. I withdraw my complaint. Happy to have this angry, older Collins fellow pose in uniform for two years.




    Not only that, why are the Wilpons paying Sandy Alderson and his crew to interview angry old men to pose in a uniform for the next two years? If the manager isn't that important and it's all about the players, then why spend so much wasted time with a bunch of stiffs?

    I don't get it.

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Orange County NY
    Posts
    6,540
    Personally, I could not care if the media dislikes a manager; being media friendly does not put W's on the board. And the Club Mets attitude needs to change also. The Mets may need strict no nonsense guys during a time when they need to completely overhaul the franchise. The team can't have players running the franchise. Hopefully the days of a pitcher refusing to go to Triple A to work on his game, or a relief pitcher beating up his girl friend's father in front of other players wives and kids, are over.

    Fans may like former players (especially former Mets) to come back and manage, but Wally needs to manage above rookie half season ball. Let him do some stints in double A and then triple A; then see what his track record is.

    Even the media can't predict what type of a manager someone will turn out to be. Back around 1930, Babe Ruth wanted the Yankees to make him player-manager but the NYY brass knew better. They picked a guy named Joe McCarthy instead, a guy known as a 'busher' because he only played in the minors. All McCarthy did was lead the team to 7 WS and 8 pennants.

    I am not suggesting Collins will end up doing this, but I hope he does !

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    267
    Quote Originally Posted by Strawman View Post
    Omar would have pressed the Bobby V. button and quickly.
    Omar would have pressed the Manny Acta button and quickly.
    "We have a plan; and I like our plan." ...Omar
    "I belive in our minor leagers; and I like our minor leagers." ...Omar

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    3,478
    For what it's worth Collins has a winning record as a major league manager.

    Not that it's worth much.

    But wasting breath whining about the manager is pointless. Especially when your preferred option (Backman) is a complete guess as a major leaguer. There's no idea how his act plays at a higher level.

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    9,908
    Blog Entries
    4
    I wouldn't have been thrilled if they picked Backman which IMO would have been pandering to the fan base. Leyland, Scioscia and Schowalter are off the board as apparently was Bobby V so I don't see any stellar candidates out there. I can't get too worked up about the manager and hopefully the media lets him breathe instead of trying to create controversy (ala ambushing Randy Johnson and sticking a camera in his face as he is walking up the steps of a doctor's office).

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Long Island
    Posts
    8,599
    Quote Originally Posted by Shea Knight View Post
    So you believe we should treat the Jerry Manuels and Dalls Greens the same as we would the John McGraws and Casey Stengels?

    Managers DO impact the game, and if you want to tell me "McGraw had great players, anyone can win with them," remember that McGraw also MOLDED his players...

    The same way there's a world of difference between a Vince Lombardi and a Dennis Erickson--Lombardi had good players, but that's definitely somewhat due to the way he trained them, the way he fashioned a working relationship between himself and Bart Starr...

    The way good managers and their captains and star pitchers work together to coax that little extra effort out of the others that makes the difference between making the playoffs and falling just short.
    Before you post you need to start thinking about what your typing. You just compared McGraw with Green/Manual. Are you serious? First of all as Mets523 informed you Stengal was not so good without Berra, Mantle, Dimaggio, etc. So really no reason to address that.

    Now on to McGraw. Starting in 1902....thats right 1902 McGraw started with the Giants. He managed them for 31 years. 31 years. Also in 1902 teams were not set up as they are now. McGraw was also the GM, and talent evaluater. So yes he was capable of molding the players because well.........he chose all of them. Add into the fact that you can mold some players when your the manager for 31 years and have no threat of being fired. John McGraw WAS the Giants organization.

    Even with that said....how much does a manager "mold" a player? Either the player has talent or he doesnt. That hasnt changed. McGraw was obviously a good evaluater of talent. I am not sure how many players he actually molded. Neither are you.

    This does lead me to a question about McGraw. When he was the player manager of both the Orioles and the Giants.....did he mold himself? Interesting food for thought.

    If read anything above - I said baseball managers have the least amount of impact of all the managers/coaches of different sports. So you Lombardi analogy is moot. Although Lombardi had a team full of HOF'ers. Something many of the Met managers never had to worry about. Their teams have stunk for the most part.

    Your looking for too much from a manager. You think the manager is a manager/coach/tutor/father/priest to the players. He isnt.

    In 1973 Secratariat could have won with Fred Flinstone on his back. Ron Turcotte didnt mold Secratariat. Hey if you can bring in Football and 1902 baseball - I can talk about a horse.

    So whats next from you? How Caesar molded Spartacus into a great gladiator?
    Last edited by Paulypal; 11-22-2010 at 07:36 AM.

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    5,539
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulypal View Post
    In 1973 Secratariat could have won with Fred Flinstone on his back. Ron Turcotte didnt mold Secratariat. Hey if you can bring in Football and 1902 baseball - I can talk about a horse.
    I don't know about that. I think Fred Flinstone would have slowed Secratariat down.
    "I'm happy for [Edwin Encarnacion] because this guy bleeds internally, big-time" -Dusty Baker

    "If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it on the scoreboard?" -Jeff Francoeur

    "At the end of the day, the sun comes up and I still have a job" -Joba Chamberlain

  14. #54
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Long Island
    Posts
    8,599
    Quote Originally Posted by NYMets523 View Post
    I don't know about that. I think Fred Flinstone would have slowed Secratariat down.
    Hey I carefully selected Fred Flintstone as my example. If the man can pick up his car and run with it to get it started then he can only be an asset.

  15. #55
    Bob Klapisch takes apart the Terry Collins hiring (it's basically more Dodgers in the pot) and hints that Alderson's tenure may not be a long one - tough stuff, but I agree:

    http://www.northjersey.com/sports/pr...y_Collins.html
    Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Orange County NY
    Posts
    6,540
    Quote Originally Posted by NYMets523 View Post
    I don't know about that. I think Fred Flinstone would have slowed Secratariat down.
    Maybe Fred Flintstone was on Secretariat when ONION beat him at the Spa after the Belmont !

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ik9U4JVrr_Q

  17. #57
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Long Island NY
    Posts
    3,221
    To answer the OP. Collins is only signed for two years. He was signed to "whip the boys into shape" and to separate the men from the boys for the upper management. This is a "safe" pick for Alderson because 1) not much is expected this year, 2) he is a know quality, and 3) DePodesta fought for this hire. My expectations are very low for next year anyway. If this team begins to turn the corner, and it appears that Collins is losing the players, then we go for a young up and coming players manager like Chip Hale. Collins wasnt my first choice, but I can live with it.
    unknown brooklyn cabbie " how are the brooks doin"
    unknown fan "good they got three men on base"
    unknown brooklyn cabbie "which one?"

  18. #58
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Long Island NY
    Posts
    3,221
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulypal View Post
    Before you post you need to start thinking about what your typing. You just compared McGraw with Green/Manual. Are you serious? First of all as Mets523 informed you Stengal was not so good without Berra, Mantle, Dimaggio, etc. So really no reason to address that.

    Now on to McGraw. Starting in 1902....thats right 1902 McGraw started with the Giants. He managed them for 31 years. 31 years. Also in 1902 teams were not set up as they are now. McGraw was also the GM, and talent evaluater. So yes he was capable of molding the players because well.........he chose all of them. Add into the fact that you can mold some players when your the manager for 31 years and have no threat of being fired. John McGraw WAS the Giants organization.

    Even with that said....how much does a manager "mold" a player? Either the player has talent or he doesnt. That hasnt changed. McGraw was obviously a good evaluater of talent. I am not sure how many players he actually molded. Neither are you.

    This does lead me to a question about McGraw. When he was the player manager of both the Orioles and the Giants.....did he mold himself? Interesting food for thought.

    If read anything above - I said baseball managers have the least amount of impact of all the managers/coaches of different sports. So you Lombardi analogy is moot. Although Lombardi had a team full of HOF'ers. Something many of the Met managers never had to worry about. Their teams have stunk for the most part.

    Your looking for too much from a manager. You think the manager is a manager/coach/tutor/father/priest to the players. He isnt.

    In 1973 Secratariat could have won with Fred Flinstone on his back. Ron Turcotte didnt mold Secratariat. Hey if you can bring in Football and 1902 baseball - I can talk about a horse.

    So whats next from you? How Caesar molded Spartacus into a great gladiator?
    Actually you are way off base Pauly....Spartacus' gladiatorial days was before Caesar was emperor! lol
    unknown brooklyn cabbie " how are the brooks doin"
    unknown fan "good they got three men on base"
    unknown brooklyn cabbie "which one?"

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Long Island
    Posts
    8,599
    Quote Originally Posted by theAmazingMet View Post
    Actually you are way off base Pauly....Spartacus' gladiatorial days was before Caesar was emperor! lol
    Sorry Lentulus Batiatus.

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Long Island
    Posts
    8,599
    Quote Originally Posted by Strawman View Post
    Bob Klapisch takes apart the Terry Collins hiring (it's basically more Dodgers in the pot) and hints that Alderson's tenure may not be a long one - tough stuff, but I agree:

    http://www.northjersey.com/sports/pr...y_Collins.html
    Well I wouldnt say he took it apart exactly. He said it was very risky. and not what the fans wanted.

    I say who cares about Klapisch? The fans want Backman. Why? Because he was on the 1986 team, and because he has a rep for being tough. Most Met fans bitching about Collins dont realize he is cut form the same mold as Backman..minus the trailer.

    My question for Klapisch is...why is Backman the safer and better choice? He called Collins a journeyman. At least Collins had a journey. Backman has had nothing. Zero. Zip Nada. I really didnt get the memo that Backman became a genius some how. Is he the safer choice because its what fans want....honestly....should that matter. Most fans couldnt name you 10 guys in the American League. They know they think Angel Pagan is the greatest player ever. They know Wright and Reyes are Mets Gods. All of a sudden Backman became this baseball genius. Most fans that are dying for Backman to run the team is for only one reason.....he has 1986 lineage. Big Deal!

    If Collins dont work out or the plan is to get him to whip the boys into shape as previously written on here, then he gets fired too, and we move on.

Page 3 of 71 FirstFirst 123451353 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •