Can we steal Thatcher away from them too? Not sure what else it would take but adding Thatcher and Street to the pen would be solid moves.
Registered User
Can we steal Thatcher away from them too? Not sure what else it would take but adding Thatcher and Street to the pen would be solid moves.
Registered User
Yep generally in agreement here as well! I think Valdespin may be one of those prospects it's best to deal...and I'd take a decent reliever for him this summer.Originally Posted by Ralf
Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.
Registered User
Speaking only for myself, Alderson's snide attack on Mets fans because they didn't stuff the All Star ballot box like those rubes in California was .... typical of the man, I guess. But not cool.
NY Mets general manager Sandy Alderson says fans did David Wright wrong
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...#ixzz1zfIazbNA
Get us a bullpen, Sandy - and shut yer yap.
Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.
Moderate Moderator
Um, David Wright had easily 500,000 more votes than any other NL thirdbaseman, but the fans don't decide who starts. I'm not sure what Sandy's talking about.
Put it in the books.
Paulypal
Sandoval had more votes by far (1.6 million) because of some type of scam on their website. BUT the Met fans did a bad job....if the ASG matters to you. Alderson is correct.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/allstar12/sto...tar-fan-voting
Personally I dont vote so I cant complain.
Last edited by Paulypal; 07-05-2012 at 05:32 AM.
Registered User
Yeah, I just don't know why the GM of the Mets would care any more than you, Pauly - get some relief help! The team can be in this thing....
Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.
Paulypal
The whole All Star Game has become a joke. I remember when the players use to really want to win the game. Inter-league play (which I hate) has taken some of that luster away. The fact that home field for WS gets decided by this game is so off the charts stupid that its not measureable.
Bud Selig has been a nightmare of a commissioner:
1) interleauge play - has taken away from the ASG and the WS. An over reaction to the 1994 strike.
2) steroids - he and his cronies were fully away of steroid use and were LOVING it when it was making them money..then they bailed on the players when Big Mac had the Andro in his locker. Truly a s'bag. They loved the roids when it was making fans forget about the 1994 strike.
3) All Star game for home field - ok so an ASG ended up in a tie. Big deal. So Bud Selig has to go over board and make it mean something.
4) as a Met fan-- the special dispensation he gave Wilpon in unforgiveable. He hangs McCourt and lets Wilpon walk away clean. This also led us to your favorite GM.
Bud will tell us that the game has grown, and blah blah blah. The game would have grown with Mo, Larry and Curly running it. Its a great game, always was, always will be. Bud has done nothing to make it better.
Sorry for the Bud rant, but this whole ASG mess leads back to one short sighted over reactionary moron.
Last edited by Paulypal; 07-06-2012 at 06:32 AM.
Registered User
I agree with your basic points here. 1)As far as interleague, it started out trying to get interest back into the game but there are no enough real rivalries. Yanks-Mets, Chisox-Cubs, Giants -A's, Dodgers-Angels...that is about it. No real Indian-Reds, Rays-Marlins type of heat. MLB tried to create a Red Sox-Braves thing even though 99% of people never saw the Braves in Boston. As the Cubs complained long ago, they may split 3-3 with the Sox and St Louis could sweep KC, and through an unbalanced schedule they lose 3 games in the standings. Then, there is no excuse for the Mets and Yankees playing 6 games a year....let alone the Braves and Yankees playing 6 times this year. Crazy.
2)I also agree with the roids stuff. They knew what was going on. Just like there were stories back in 1914-1918 that baseball games were being thrown, MLB acted shocked after the 1919 WS???? Then why did Comiskey hire Christy Matthewson before the WS and told him to write down every suspect play? Why did A's owner Connie Mack get rid of his team after the 1914 WS ? hmmmmm
3)I never understood why the alternate 'home team' for the WS was done away with....it seemed to work for about a century.
4)As for McCourt.....I wondered why he never went after Bud for his favoritism. I guess he was content with making a billion dollars profit in 7 years, but still...you know someone like George would have been all over Bud !
Registered User
Yep, I agree with all of this. And add to that the next crazy iteration of the balanced inter-league sked and added WC single-game playoffs. Yuck.
No question, Selig is a disaster. And he did get us Alderson to boot!
Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.
Registered User
Carlos Beltran 20 hr 65 rbi .304 avg 50 runs scored
How would he look in the Mets lineup, protecting Wright, and pushing Davis down a spot.
Registered User
Yeah and with Reyes leading off and providing speed and defense, pushing Tejada to 2B and Murphy to 1B/super-sub. In retrospect, Mets were on the brink of fielding one the franchise's great teams.
Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.
Paulypal
The Dodgers should have protected Roberto Clemente
The Jets should have drafte Dan Marino instead of Ken Obrien
The Red Sox shouldnt have sold Babe Ruth
The Reds shouldnt have traded Frank Robinson
The Padres shouldnt have traded Ozzie Smith
Hindsight is 20/20 which also doesnt change the fact that the team was broke. Nobody saw Beltran's year coming, and Reyes is having a very subpar season. I cant blame the the front office for not keeping either one.
Registered User
The last thing that drove John McGraw from the NY Giants was allowing Hank Greenberg to leave NYC....and he was ridiculed for not signing him. They won 3 pennants without Greenberg, who won three pennants with Detroit. Imagine id they were together.
As for your others above, the Jets have a long history of drafting the wrong players...that is why they are the Jets. The owner of the Red Sox was more interested in financing "No, No Nannette" then baseball. The Reds blew it big time. And the Padres thought they stole Gary Templeton....that is why they are the Padres.
Alderson traded Beltran. Beltran is having a career year at age 35. Alderson has to take the flack, and the Cardinals take the applause. It comes with being the GM; evaluating talent. Just like Omar was crucified for signing Ollie and Bay.....it comes with the territory.
And nobody has ever officially stated the team was broke. In fact, they always seemed to deny they had money problems !
Registered User
I wouldn't be so quick to give Alderson flack on this one. Even if the Mets were flush with money and willing to spend, I see no way that Beltran would have chosen the Mets over the Cards considering the treatment he got from fans and media during his tenure here. And Alderson's decision to trade him for Wheeler last year may have brought us a stud in the rotation for years to come. Way too soon to call though, so we'll have to wait a few years to pass judgement on that one.
Paulypal
C'mon where was your criticism last year when he was traded and we got Wheeler, and Beltran was terrible with the Giants?
I love the Monday morning QB. Utterly ridiculous. Just a reach to knock Alderson..as usual.
Registered User
No....not Monday morning QB. I was just putting Beltran in the line up this season and with him in the mix, the Mets are in first place. No question. Sometimes you have to play for this season....sometimes the future never comes. I am still waiting for the Generation K staff to come and make us forget Seaver, Koos, Gentry, Ryan !! Maybe Wheeler is the real deal...maybe not. We have to wait.
Have you seen me rip Alderson on many issues? I believe he has zero say on spending money and has done a good job, with the exception of the bull pen. I have said I want him to go get some pitching help as a show of good faith to the fans. I realize Wilpon holds the purse strings.
Now, I have made myself clear since joining here in 2006 that I don't like the Wilpons. But I don't blame Alderson for a lot of things. In fact, I don't think I would have given Reyes the money he got in Miami. And it is not his fault they are stuck with Bay !
Registered User
Yeah, I'm the one who argues that Alderson is actively a poor GM, below par and a bad fit for the Mets - especially since he took the gig with the in-house MLB knowledge of where the finances were.
Others will say he's just mediocre or all right....I actually think his lieutenants are much better baseball guys.
Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.
Paulypal
So are you saying that the Mets should have played for "NOW" last year, and kept Beltran? At this point last year they were 7 1/2" games out of the Wild Card and already going in the wrong direction. They were going to cut payroll and Beltran was going...we all knew that. Or are you saying they should have kept him because they should have known that this rag tag bunch was going to be in the mix in 2012? If anyone knew that their crystal ball was better than anyone elses.
Yes with him in the mix this year they are in first. Assuming he puts up the same numbers....big assumption by the way. I still cant knock anyone for trading him. It was a good move.
Registered User
Beltran did have a pretty good season with the Mets 15 hr 66 rbi .289 avg .391 obp. over 98 games. Prorated over the rest of the season, he could have had about 25 hr and 109 rbi. They did not have to dump Beltran. They could actually have signed him. In fact, they could have traded him, then signed him in the off season basically rent him to the Giants for a couple of months ! And his salary would have been reduced by about $5 million a year .
So far there as not been one public statement by Fred or Jeff Wilpon saying that they MUST cut salary. In fact, we could probably find sources where ownership, and the GM, stated they were not dumping salary.
Getting Clendennon in '69 put the Mets over the top. Getting Carter was the final piece for the Mets winning a second time. Who knows, Beltran could have been that added pop in the lineup in 2012 if the Mets had resigned him.
Reyes was way too injury prone for such a huge long term contract. Pagan never seemed to progress. I don't mind they both are gone, and I was glad they dumped K-Rod. But Beltran at $13 million was a bargain compared to Jason Bay at $18 million !!! And Beltran ONLY got a 2 yr deal with St Louis.....not much risk in a 2 yr deal.
So...I think he did the right thing with Reyes, Pagan, K-Rod....but I disagree with him on Beltran so that means I am always attacking Alderson? Do I have to shill for him 100% ? 75% approval is not enough?
Paulypal
Nothing at all about cutting salary except for the FACT that they cut almost 30 million in payroll from 2011 to 2012, and Santana would be gone if they were losing...so that would have been 50 million...so they would dump salary if they could...and they did.Beltran did have a pretty good season with the Mets 15 hr 66 rbi .289 avg .391 obp. over 98 games. Prorated over the rest of the season, he could have had about 25 hr and 109 rbi. They did not have to dump Beltran. They could actually have signed him. In fact, they could have traded him, then signed him in the off season basically rent him to the Giants for a couple of months ! And his salary would have been reduced by about $5 million a year .
So far there as not been one public statement by Fred or Jeff Wilpon saying that they MUST cut salary. In fact, we could probably find sources where ownership, and the GM, stated they were not dumping salary.
Getting Clendennon in '69 put the Mets over the top. Getting Carter was the final piece for the Mets winning a second time. Who knows, Beltran could have been that added pop in the lineup in 2012 if the Mets had resigned him.
Reyes was way too injury prone for such a huge long term contract. Pagan never seemed to progress. I don't mind they both are gone, and I was glad they dumped K-Rod. But Beltran at $13 million was a bargain compared to Jason Bay at $18 million !!! And Beltran ONLY got a 2 yr deal with St Louis.....not much risk in a 2 yr deal.
So...I think he did the right thing with Reyes, Pagan, K-Rod....but I disagree with him on Beltran so that means I am always attacking Alderson? Do I have to shill for him 100% ? 75% approval is not enough?
If you shill for Alderson or attack him...doesnt matter.
Curmudgeon
Beltran for Zack Wheeler... seems like a good trade to me.
Curmudgeon
I don't think he understands that the 2002 ASG ended in a tie because both teams ran out of pitchers...
Selig sucks, plain and simple. But he'll be there a long time, since he shills for the owners. He knew about steroids YEARS before it became well known. But of course, the owners have to make money, so Selig allows use to run rampant until Congress gets involved. Bart Giamatti is rolling over in his grave.
Pete Rose got banned for gambling. ALL those who tested positive in 2003 would've been banned if Giamatti was still in charge.
Registered User
It could be a great deal. However, the Mets could have made the deal...and a couple of months later signed Beltran for $5 million less than he was getting.
So for renting Beltran to the Giants for 2 1/2 months, the Mets could get Wheeler and also save $5 million per for 2 years.
The Alderson Era
Not only would that create a cap constraint, but would've prevented Alderson from attempting to fix the bullpen - note: how they've performed thus far is irrelevant. Add the fact that Beltran cannot play centerfield, we're trying to develop Duda, and Bay takes up left, it would've been inane to re-sign Beltran to what was a re-building team.
It's easy to say that we should have signed him now, hindsight is always 20/20, but we weren't considered a playoff team and Beltran would just be cap waste.
Registered User
There is so much to digest here:
What exactly is a "cap constraint" ? This is not the NFL, the MLB teams have no cap. And there is no salary luxury tax until the payroll exceeds $189 million. Only the New York Yankees are above this amount. And what exactly is cap waste?
The Mets payroll is currently listed at $93 million, which puts them 14th behind the Twins (yes, those small market Twins)
Trading Beltran was a good move , getting Wheeler. Signing Beltran for $13 million , a $5 million dollar reduction and only for 2 years, would have been a good move too.
The Mets payroll would be $106 million, good for 10th place in MLB.
Just because Bay 'takes up left" does not mean he should play. They are stuck with that contract....and the last time Bay got hurt didn't some of those loyal Mets fans actually CHEER that he got hurt ??? I would not doubt some folks here on baseball fever were among those cheering ! Beltran could be playing LF instead.
And 'developing' Duda ? When an outfielder reaches the majors, isn't he developed? Isn't that the purpose of Binghamton and Buffalo?
And no matter how passionate the fan, it really isn't "we"....it's them. Unless you are somehow on the payroll !
http://content.usatoday.com/sportsda...salaries/team/
http://bizofbaseball.com/index.php?o...ials&Itemid=39
I admire the fans who are optimistic and passionate. However, I think back to the Mets losing 5 of 6 to the Yankees (particularly the sweep at YS) and then I recall the fans who were invisible for days on baseball fever, and those who were no longer so optimistic, to say the least. Guys like Strawman and Pauly are there, rain or shine, good or bad, win or lose.
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