Harold Baines, DH/RF (1980-2001) - 1st Year
Buddy Bell, 3B (1972-1989) - 13th Year
Albert Belle, LF (1989-2000) - 2nd Year
Dante Bichette, RF (1988-2001) - 1st Year
Bobby Bonilla, 3B/OF (1986-2001) - 1st Year
Jay Buhner, RF (1987-2001) - 1st Year
Ken Caminiti, 3B (1987-2001) - 1st Year
Jose Canseco, OF/DH (1985-2001) - 1st Year
Will Clark, 1B (1986-2000) - 2nd Year
Dave Concepcion, SS (1970-1988) - 14th Year
Eric Davis, CF (1984-1994, 1996-2001) - 1st Year
Darrell Evans, 3B/1B (1969-1989) - 13th Year
Dwight Evans, RF (1972-1991) - 11th Year
Tony Fernandez, SS (1983-1995, 1997-1999, 2001) - 1st Year
Steve Garvey, 1B (1969-1987) - 15th Year
Bernard Gilkey, LF (1990-2001) - 1st Year
Dwight Gooden, SP (1984-1994, 1996-2000) - 2nd Year
Ron Guidry, SP (1975-1988) - 14th Year
Tony Gwynn, RF (1982-2001) - 1st Year
Orel Hershiser, SP (1983-2000) - 2nd Year
Glenallen Hill, OF (1989-2001) - 1st Year
Tommy John, SP (1963-1974, 1976-1989) - 13th Year
Wally Joyner, 1B (1986-2001) - 1st Year
Fred Lynn, CF (1974-1990) - 12th Year
Dave Magadan, 3B/1B (1986-2001) - 1st Year
Ramon Martinez, SP (1988-2001) - 1st Year
Don Mattingly, 1B (1982-1995) - 7th Year
Mark McGwire, 1B (1986-2001) - 1st Year
Jack Morris, SP (1977-1994) - 8th Year
Dale Murphy, CF/RF (1976-1993) - 9th Year
Graig Nettles, 3B (1967-1988) - 14th Year
Paul O'Neill, RF (1985-2001) - 1st Year
Dave Parker, RF (1973-1991) - 11th Year
Lance Parrish, C (1977-1995) - 7th Year
Dan Quisenberry, RP (1979-1990) - 12th Year
Willie Randolph, 2B (1975-1992) - 10th Year
Jim Rice, LF (1974-1989) - 13th Year
Cal Ripken, SS (1981-2001) - 1st Year
Bret Saberhagen, SP (1984-1995, 1997-1999, 2001) - 1st Year
Lee Smith, RP (1980-1997) - 5th Year
Dave Stieb, SP (1979-1993, 1998) - 4th Year
Darryl Strawberry, RF (1983-1999) - 3rd Year
Bruce Sutter, SP (1976-1986, 1988) - 14th Year
Kevin Tapani, SP (1989-2001) - 1st Year
Devon White, CF (1985-2001) - 1st Year
John Wetteland, RP (1989-2000) - 2nd Year
None of the Above (Blank Ballot)
I don't understand the support for Saberhagen. He was never consistently great and he was injured or not playing so much of the time. Remove 1989 and he is 144-111...that's like Mark Buehrle territory.
A starting pitcher who averages 10 wins and only 160 innings pitched a year, even in this era of using starting pitchers less, should not be in the Hall of Fame - especially one who was never great consistently.
I'm not supporting him, even though he's a personal favorite of mine, but I think he's close and I can certainly see why others would support him for this Hall.
And this is further proof that WAR is a flimsy, unreliable statistic. Maybe its not that WAR has found a hidden statistical treasure in Bret Saberhagen that we have all missed...maybe it is that WAR is wrong.
The Hall of Fame is rarely about "what could have beens" unless in the most extreme of examples like Koufax and Joss. Saberhagen's career was not so exemplary that it merits a "what could have been" induction.
Saberhagen - 2 Cy Youngs, 1 3rd place CYA finish
It's hard to overstate how important the above is when you're talking Hall of Fame worthiness.
And I bet there is some support for Hudson as a Hall of Famer in this project. Not 37%, but he's not a one-and-done. Especially if we're talking 10 years after his career was over, like we are with Saberhagen. If Hudson retired today, in 10 years his stats would become more important to the electorates evaluation of him (especially for voters that never saw him) and the perception that he wasn't a Hall of Famer when we watched him would be come less powerful.
I'd be curious to see how much of the support for Saberhagen is from people who watched him in the mid-to-late 80's when he considered an uber elite pitcher when healthy, and how much is from people who never saw him pitch in his prime and are basing their support of him on his advance metrics.
Cy Young Awards
Bret Saberhagen: 2
Jimmy Key + Tim Hudson: 0
And again, I think a big thing with Saberhagen is just how good he was through age 25 and thus how much promise there was if not for the overuse.
I honestly don't see the love affair with Saberhagen. He certainly was a solid pitcher in his prime and had serious Hall of Fame potential. Potential doesn't get you into the Hall of Fame, but meeting your potential can get you there. Sabermetrically (at least according to WAR), it would seem his career WAR would get him some discussion much like Tommy John received. Tommy John isn't getting much love here though and John certainly has a bit more of the "fame" factor on his side than Saberhagen does. I liked Saberhagen as a player, but he just didn't live up to his potential. I have more sympathy for him than I do Dwight Gooden, who is an even bigger disappointment for obvious reasons. As far as I'm concerned, neither one quite makes the cut.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
Saberhagen on the other hand, reached 54.7 WAR, good for 60th all time. He led the league in pitching WAR twice and finished in the top 3 four times, plus another top 6 finish. He also pitched just 16 seasons and 2560 innings.
So what this all says is that while WAR shows they had similar career value, John needed to pitch almost twice as much to have as much value as Saberhagen. The fact that Saberhagen could accumulate so much value despite such a short career speaks to how great he was at peak.
Mattingly (alltime fav player)
O'Neill (#2 fav alltime player)
Oh my- looks like Murphy's going to miss again! 16/23 right now. He'll have to get 5 for 5 by tomorrow to finish at 21/28, 75%. He almost made it right off the bat, but has hovered around 70% year after year. Murphy's career has some warts, but given the scope of our HOF, I think he clearly belongs. Apparently there are enough who don't agree to keep him out.
What a stellar list to pick from!!
Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball
This election is closed. We elected Tony Gwynn and Cal Ripken.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
Last edited by hairmetalfreek; 12-01-2010 at 02:42 AM.