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Thread: Team Halls of Fame general discussion thread

  1. #101
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    I will require a second, but except for cases I present, I will guarantee any decently made argument (like the one for Joan Payson) that if no one else seconds it, I will. That doesn't guarantee my vote when her (or others that I second) is considered, but does guarantee it will be considered.. I'll assume jjpm74's comment amounts to a seconding of my nominees posted above unless I hear to the contrary from him, whether by a post here or by PM. Of course, others may chime in on any of these cases, whether in favor or not.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  2. #102
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    If you have any doubt who's in, see this post: http://www.baseball-fever.com/showth...75#post1832175

    All the teams and some other groups like the Negro Leagues, the American Association, defunct NL teams and the pre 1876 players have the members of their Halls listed, and anyone not in those Halls is someone you are free to try and make the case for. However, I will not second any cases which are not reasonable, and may in fact disallow any which I find clearly ridiculous.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  3. #103
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    Here's a case by jjpm to add William Shea as a contributor to the Mets:

    Quote Originally Posted by jjpm74 View Post
    From what I know of the Mets, it was William Shea and not Joan Payson who was the catalyst for getting a new team in NY. He was the one who proposed and formed the Continental League in the hopes of bringing a second team back to NY:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_League
    I will guarantee this will be presented.
    Last edited by jalbright; 01-27-2012 at 07:46 AM.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  4. #104
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Moot Point
    Posts
    5,182
    Here's a list of the individuals elected to each team's Hall of Fame so far.
    Code:
    Arizona Diamondbacks (3)
    
    NAME                 ELECTED AS   RND
    Luis Gonzalez        Player       1st
    Randy Johnson        Player       1st
    Curt Schilling       Player       1st
    
    Atlanta Braves (27)
    
    NAME                 ELECTED AS   RND
    Hank Aaron           Player       1st
    Joe Adcock           Player       4th
    Wally Berger         Player       2nd
    Tommy Bond           Player       3rd
    Bobby Cox            Contributor  1st
    Del Crandall         Player       4th
    Hugh Duffy           Player       3rd
    Bob Elliott          Player       3rd
    Tom Glavine          Player       1st
    Tommy Holmes         Player       3rd
    David Justice        Player       5th
    Johnny Logan         Player       3rd
    Herman Long          Player       2nd
    Greg Maddux          Player       1st
    Rabbit Maranville    Player       4th
    Eddie Mathews        Player       1st
    Leo Mazzone          Contributor  2nd
    Dale Murphy          Player       1st
    Kid Nichols          Player       1st
    Phil Niekro          Player       1st
    John Schuerholz      Contributor  1st
    Frank Selee          Contributor  2nd
    John Smoltz          Player       1st
    Warren Spahn         Player       1st
    Joe Torre            Player       2nd
    Ted Turner           Contributor  1st
    Vic Willis           Player       3rd
    
    Baltimore Orioles (19)
    
    NAME                 ELECTED AS   RND
    Brady Anderson       Player       3rd
    Mark Belanger        Player       2nd
    Paul Blair           Player       2nd
    Harlond Clift        Player       3rd
    Bobby Grich          Player       1st
    Eddie Murray         Player       1st
    Mike Mussina         Player       1st
    Jim Palmer           Player       1st
    Boog Powell          Player       1st
    Cal Ripken           Player       1st
    Brooks Robinson      Player       1st
    Frank Robinson       Player       1st
    Urban Shocker        Player       2nd
    Ken Singleton        Player       2nd
    George Sisler        Player       1st
    Vern Stephens        Player       2nd
    Bobby Wallace        Player       2nd
    Earl Weaver          Contributor  1st
    Ken Williams         Player       2nd
    
    Boston Red Sox (33)
    
    NAME                 ELECTED AS   RND
    Wade Boggs           Player       1st
    Bill Carrigan        Contributor  2nd
    Roger Clemens        Player       1st
    Joe Cronin           Combination  1st
    Dom DiMaggio         Player       2nd
    Bobby Doerr          Player       1st
    Theo Epstein         Contributor  2nd
    Dwight Evans         Player       1st
    Carlton Fisk         Player       1st
    Jimmie Foxx          Player       2nd
    Terry Francona       Contributor  2nd
    Nomar Garciaparra    Player       2nd
    Lefty Grove          Player       2nd
    Harry Hooper         Player       2nd
    Tex Hughson          Player       3rd
    Jackie Jensen        Player       4th
    Fred Lynn            Player       2nd
    Pedro Martinez       Player       1st
    Mel Parnell          Player       3rd
    Johnny Pesky         Player       3rd
    Rico Petrocelli      Player       3rd
    Manny Ramirez        Player       3rd
    Jim Rice             Player       1st
    Babe Ruth            Player       3rd
    Reggie Smith         Player       2nd
    Tris Speaker         Player       1st
    Vern Stephens        Player       3rd
    Luis Tiant           Player       2nd
    John Valentin        Player       4th
    Ted Williams         Player       1st
    Smoky Joe Wood       Player       3rd
    Carl Yastrzemski     Player       1st
    Cy Young             Player       1st
    
    Chicago Cubs (20)
    
    NAME                 ELECTED AS   RND
    Pete Alexander       Player       2nd
    Cap Anson            Combination  1st
    Ernie Banks          Player       1st
    Mordecai Brown       Player       1st
    Harry Caray          Contributor  1st
    Frank Chance         Combination  1st
    Bill Dahlen          Player       2nd
    Johnny Evers         Player       1st
    Mark Grace           Player       2nd
    Charlie Grimm        Contributor  1st
    Stan Hack            Player       1st
    Gabby Hartnett       Player       1st
    William Hulbert      Contributor  1st
    Fergie Jenkins       Player       1st
    Ryne Sandberg        Player       1st
    Ron Santo            Player       1st
    Al Spalding          Contributor  1st
    Joe Tinker           Player       2nd
    Billy Williams       Player       1st
    Philip Wrigley       Contributor  1st
    
    Chicago White Sox (27)
    
    NAME                 ELECTED AS   RND
    Luis Aparicio        Player       1st
    Luke Appling         Player       1st
    Harold Baines        Player       2nd
    Eddie Collins        Player       1st
    Charlie Comiskey     Contributor  1st
    George Davis         Player       2nd
    Red Faber            Player       1st
    Carlton Fisk         Player       1st
    Nellie Fox           Player       1st
    Tommy John           Player       3rd
    Fielder Jones        Player       3rd
    Willie Kamm          Player       3rd
    Jim Landis           Player       4th
    Chet Lemon           Player       3rd
    Sherm Lollar         Player       2nd
    Al Lopez             Contributor  1st
    Ted Lyons            Player       1st
    Jack McDowell        Player       4th
    Minnie Minoso        Player       1st
    Billy Pierce         Player       1st
    Ray Schalk           Player       2nd
    Frank Thomas         Player       1st
    Bill Veeck           Contributor  2nd
    Robin Ventura        Player       2nd
    Ed Walsh             Player       1st
    Doc White            Player       3rd
    Wilbur Wood          Player       2nd
    
    Cincinnati Reds (28)
    
    NAME                 ELECTED AS   RND
    Sparky Anderson      Contributor  1st
    Johnny Bench         Player       1st
    Ewell Blackwell      Player       3rd
    Dave Concepcion      Player       2nd
    Eric Davis           Player       3rd
    Paul Derringer       Player       3rd
    George Foster        Player       2nd
    Heinie Groh          Player       1st
    Noodles Hahn         Player       3rd
    Ted Kluszewski       Player       2nd
    Barry Larkin         Player       1st
    Ernie Lombardi       Player       3rd
    Frank McCormick      Player       4th
    Bill McKechnie       Contributor  1st
    Bid McPhee           Player       1st
    Joe Morgan           Player       1st
    Tony Mullane         Player       3rd
    Joe Nuxhall          Contributor  1st
    Tony Perez           Player       1st
    Vada Pinson          Player       2nd
    Jose Rijo            Player       2nd
    Eppa Rixey           Player       2nd
    Frank Robinson       Player       1st
    Pete Rose            Player       1st
    Edd Roush            Player       1st
    Mario Soto           Player       3rd
    Johnny Vander Meer   Player       3rd
    Bucky Walters        Player       2nd
    
    Cleveland Indians (26)
    
    NAME                 ELECTED AS   RND
    Earl Averill         Player       1st
    Bobby Avila          Player       3rd
    Albert Belle         Player       2nd
    Lou Boudreau         Combination  1st
    Rocky Colavito       Player       2nd
    Stan Coveleski       Player       1st
    Larry Doby           Player       1st
    Bob Feller           Player       1st
    Elmer Flick          Player       3rd
    Mel Harder           Player       1st
    Mike Hargrove        Contributor  2nd
    John Hart            Contributor  1st
    Addie Joss           Player       1st
    Ken Keltner          Player       2nd
    Nap Lajoie           Player       1st
    Bob Lemon            Player       1st
    Kenny Lofton         Player       2nd
    Al Lopez             Contributor  1st
    Sam McDowell         Player       2nd
    Gaylord Perry        Player       2nd
    Manny Ramirez        Player       2nd
    Al Rosen             Player       1st
    Joe Sewell           Player       1st
    Tris Speaker         Combination  1st
    Bill Veeck           Contributor  2nd
    Early Wynn           Player       1st
    
    Colorado Rockies (3)
    
    NAME                 ELECTED AS   RND
    Vinny Castilla       Player       1st
    Andres Galarraga     Player       1st
    Larry Walker         Player       1st
    
    Detroit Tigers (31)
    
    NAME                 ELECTED AS   RND
    Sparky Anderson      Contributor  1st
    Tommy Bridges        Player       1st
    Jim Bunning          Player       3rd
    Donie Bush           Player       4th
    Jim Campbell         Contributor  1st
    Norm Cash            Player       1st
    Ty Cobb              Player       1st
    Mickey Cochrane      Contributor  2nd
    Sam Crawford         Player       1st
    Bill Freehan         Player       1st
    Charlie Gehringer    Player       1st
    Kirk Gibson          Player       4th
    Hank Greenberg       Player       1st
    Ernie Harwell        Contributor  1st
    Harry Heilmann       Player       1st
    John Hiller          Player       4th
    Hughie Jennings      Contributor  1st
    Al Kaline            Player       1st
    George Kell          Combination  2nd
    Chet Lemon           Player       4th
    Mickey Lolich        Player       1st
    Dick McAuliffe       Player       4th
    Jack Morris          Player       3rd
    Hal Newhouser        Player       1st
    Lance Parrish        Player       2nd
    Alan Trammell        Player       1st
    Dizzy Trout          Player       2nd
    Virgil Trucks        Player       4th
    Bobby Veach          Player       2nd
    Lou Whitaker         Player       1st
    Rudy York            Player       3rd
    
    Florida Marlins (0)
    
    NAME                 ELECTED AS   RND
    [none]
    
    Houston Astros (17)
    
    NAME                 ELECTED AS   RND
    Jeff Bagwell         Player       1st
    Craig Biggio         Player       1st
    Cesar Cedeno         Player       1st
    Jose Cruz            Player       1st
    Glenn Davis          Player       2nd
    Larry Dierker        Combination  1st
    Bill Doran           Player       2nd
    Joe Morgan           Player       2nd
    Joe Niekro           Player       1st
    Terry Puhl           Player       1st
    J.R. Richard         Player       1st
    Nolan Ryan           Player       1st
    Mike Scott           Player       1st
    Billy Wagner         Player       2nd
    Bob Watson           Player       1st
    Don Wilson           Player       1st
    Jim Wynn             Player       1st
    
    Kansas City Royals (14)
    
    NAME                 ELECTED AS   RND
    Kevin Appier         Player       1st
    George Brett         Player       1st
    Whitey Herzog        Contributor  1st
    Dick Howser          Contributor  1st
    Ewing Kauffman       Contributor  1st
    John Mayberry        Player       1st
    Hal McRae            Player       1st
    Jeff Montgomery      Player       1st
    Amos Otis            Player       1st
    Dan Quisenberry      Player       1st
    Bret Saberhagen      Player       1st
    Mike Sweeney         Player       1st
    Frank White          Player       1st
    Willie Wilson        Player       1st
    
    Los Angeles Angels (15)
    
    NAME                 ELECTED AS   RND
    Garret Anderson      Player       1st
    Gene Autry           Contributor  1st
    Dean Chance          Player       2nd
    Brian Downing        Player       1st
    Jim Edmonds          Player       2nd
    Chuck Finley         Player       1st
    Jim Fregosi          Player       1st
    Bobby Grich          Player       1st
    Mark Langston        Player       2nd
    Gene Mauch           Contributor  1st
    Troy Percival        Player       1st
    Nolan Ryan           Player       1st
    Tim Salmon           Player       1st
    Mike Scioscia        Contributor  2nd
    Frank Tanana         Player       1st
    
    Los Angeles Dodgers (4)
    
    NAME                 ELECTED AS   RND
    Walter Alston        Contributor  1st
    Red Barber           Contributor  3rd
    Buzzie Bavasi        Contributor  2nd
    Dolph Camilli        Player       2nd
    Roy Campanella       Player       1st
    Al Campanis          Contributor  3rd
    Ron Cey              Player       2nd
    Willie Davis         Player       2nd
    Don Drysdale         Player       1st
    Leo Durocher         Contributor  3rd
    Charlie Ebbets       Contributor  2nd
    Carl Furillo         Player       3rd
    Steve Garvey         Player       2nd
    Jim Gilliam          Player       2nd
    Burleigh Grimes      Player       4th
    Pedro Guerrero       Player       2nd
    Orel Hershiser       Player       2nd
    Gil Hodges           Player       1st
    Burt Hooton          Player       5th
    Sandy Koufax         Player       1st
    Tommy Lasorda        Contributor  1st
    Davey Lopes          Player       3rd
    Van Mungo            Player       4th
    Don Newcombe         Player       2nd
    Claude Osteen        Player       2nd
    Mike Piazza          Player       1st
    Johnny Podres        Player       3rd
    Pee Wee Reese        Player       1st
    Pete Reiser          Player       4th
    Branch Rickey        Contributor  1st
    Jackie Robinson      Player       1st
    Wilbert Robinson     Contributor  2nd
    Preacher Roe         Player       3rd
    Nap Rucker           Player       3rd
    Vin Scully           Contributor  1st
    Jimmy Sheckard       Player       4th
    Duke Snider          Player       1st
    Don Sutton           Player       1st
    Fernando Valenzuela  Player       2nd
    Dazzy Vance          Player       1st
    Dixie Walker         Player       2nd
    Bob Welch            Player       3rd
    Zack Wheat           Player       1st
    Maury Wills          Player       2nd
    
    Milwaukee Brewers (8)
    
    NAME                 ELECTED AS   RND
    Jeff Cirillo         Player       1st
    Cecil Cooper         Player       1st
    Teddy Higuera        Player       1st
    Paul Molitor         Player       1st
    Don Money            Player       2nd
    Ben Oglivie          Player       1st
    Bob Uecker           Contributor  1st
    Robin Yount          Player       1st
    
    Minnesota Twins (21)
    
    NAME                 ELECTED AS   RND
    Ossie Bluege         Contributor  2nd
    Bert Blyleven        Player       1st
    Rod Carew            Player       1st
    Joe Cronin           Player       2nd
    Gary Gaetti          Player       2nd
    Goose Goslin         Player       1st
    Clark Griffith       Contributor  1st
    Bucky Harris         Contributor  1st
    Kent Hrbek           Player       1st
    Walter Johnson       Player       1st
    Jim Kaat             Player       1st
    Tom Kelly            Contributor  1st
    Harmon Killebrew     Player       1st
    Buddy Myer           Player       2nd
    Tony Oliva           Player       1st
    Camilo Pascual       Player       2nd
    Kirby Puckett        Player       1st
    Sam Rice             Player       1st
    Cecil Travis         Player       2nd
    Mickey Vernon        Player       2nd
    Frank Viola          Player       2nd
    
    New York Mets (18)
    
    NAME                 ELECTED AS   RND
    Edgardo Alfonzo      Player       3rd
    Frank Cashen         Contributor  1st
    David Cone           Player       2nd
    Ron Darling          Player       3rd
    Sid Fernandez        Player       2nd
    Dwight Gooden        Player       1st
    Keith Hernandez      Player       1st
    Gil Hodges           Contributor  1st
    Davey Johnson        Contributor  1st
    Howard Johnson       Player       1st
    Cleon Jones          Player       2nd
    Ralph Kiner          Contributor  2nd
    Jerry Koosman        Player       1st
    Al Leiter            Player       3rd
    Jon Matlack          Player       2nd
    Mike Piazza          Player       1st
    Tom Seaver           Player       1st
    Darryl Strawberry    Player       1st
    
    New York Yankees (51)
    
    NAME                 ELECTED AS   RND
    Mel Allen            Contributor  2nd
    Ed Barrow            Contributor  3rd
    Hank Bauer           Player       4th
    Yogi Berra           Player       1st
    Spud Chandler        Player       4th
    Earle Combs          Player       2nd
    Bill Dickey          Player       1st
    Joe DiMaggio         Player       1st
    Whitey Ford          Player       1st
    Lou Gehrig           Player       1st
    Lefty Gomez          Player       1st
    Joe Gordon           Player       2nd
    Rich Gossage         Player       4th
    Ron Guidry           Player       2nd
    Rickey Henderson     Player       3rd
    Tommy Henrich        Player       3rd
    Ralph Houk           Contributor  4th
    Elston Howard        Player       2nd
    Waite Hoyt           Player       3rd
    Miller Huggins       Contributor  2nd
    Charlie Keller       Player       3rd
    Tony Lazzeri         Player       2nd
    Mickey Mantle        Player       1st
    Roger Maris          Player       3rd
    Billy Martin         Contributor  3rd
    Don Mattingly        Player       2nd
    Joe McCarthy         Contributor  1st
    Gil McDougald        Player       3rd
    Thurman Munson       Player       1st
    Bobby Murcer         Player       3rd
    Mike Mussina         Player       3rd
    Graig Nettles        Player       2nd
    Paul O'Neill         Player       4th
    Jorge Posada         Player       4th
    Herb Pennock         Player       3rd
    Andy Pettitte        Player       2nd
    Willie Randolph      Player       2nd
    Allie Reynolds       Player       4th
    Phil Rizzuto         Player       2nd
    Red Rolfe            Player       4th
    Red Ruffing          Player       1st
    Jacob Ruppert        Contributor  3rd
    Babe Ruth            Player       1st
    Bill Skowron         Player       4th
    George Steinbrenner  Contributor  1st
    Casey Stengel        Contributor  1st
    Mel Stottlemyre      Player       3rd
    Joe Torre            Contributor  2nd
    Roy White            Player       2nd
    Bernie Williams      Player       1st
    Dave Winfield        Player       4th
    
    Oakland Athletics (27)
    
    NAME                 ELECTED AS   RND
    Home Run Baker       Player       2nd
    Sal Bando            Player       1st
    Chief Bender         Player       2nd
    Vida Blue            Player       2nd
    Bert Campaneris      Player       2nd
    Mickey Cochrane      Player       1st
    Eddie Collins        Player       1st
    Harry Davis          Player       4th
    Dennis Eckersley     Player       1st
    Charles Finley       Contributor  1st
    Jimmie Foxx          Player       1st
    Lefty Grove          Player       1st
    Rickey Henderson     Player       1st
    Catfish Hunter       Player       1st
    Reggie Jackson       Player       1st
    Bob Johnson          Player       2nd
    Eddie Joost          Player       4th
    Connie Mack          Contributor  1st
    Mark McGwire         Player       3rd
    Dwayne Murphy        Player       3rd
    Eddie Plank          Player       1st
    Eddie Rommel         Player       2nd
    Ben Shibe            Contributor  1st
    Al Simmons           Player       1st
    Gene Tenace          Player       3rd
    Rube Waddell         Player       1st
    Dick Williams        Contributor  2nd
    
    Philadelphia Phillies (24)
    
    NAME                 ELECTED AS   RND
    Pete Alexander       Player       1st
    Dick Allen           Player       1st
    Richie Ashburn       Player       1st
    Jim Bunning          Player       2nd
    Johnny Callison      Player       2nd
    Steve Carlton        Player       1st
    Jack Clements        Player       3rd
    Gavvy Cravath        Player       3rd
    Ed Delahanty         Player       1st
    Del Ennis            Player       2nd
    Pat Gillick          Contributor  2nd
    Billy Hamilton       Player       2nd
    Harry Kalas          Contributor  1st
    Chuck Klein          Player       1st
    Greg Luzinski        Player       2nd
    Sherry Magee         Player       1st
    Charlie Manuel       Contributor  3rd
    Paul Owens           Contributor  1st
    Danny Ozark          Contributor  2nd
    Robin Roberts        Player       1st
    Curt Schilling       Player       2nd
    Mike Schmidt         Player       1st
    Roy Thomas           Player       2nd
    Sam Thompson         Player       1st
    
    Pittsburgh Pirates (35)
    
    NAME                 ELECTED AS   RND
    Babe Adams           Player       1st
    Ginger Beaumont      Player       3rd
    Jake Beckley         Player       3rd
    Barry Bonds          Player       2nd
    Joe Brown            Contributor  2nd
    John Candelaria      Player       3rd
    Max Carey            Player       1st
    Fred Clarke          Combination  1st
    Roberto Clemente     Player       1st
    Wilbur Cooper        Player       1st
    Barney Dreyfuss      Contributor  1st
    Bob Elliott          Player       4th
    Roy Face             Player       3rd
    Bob Friend           Player       2nd
    Brian Giles          Player       3rd
    Jason Kendall        Player       4th
    Ralph Kiner          Player       1st
    Vern Law             Player       2nd
    Tommy Leach          Player       2nd
    Sam Leever           Player       2nd
    Bill Mazeroski       Player       1st
    Danny Murtaugh       Contributor  1st
    Al Oliver            Player       3rd
    Dave Parker          Player       2nd
    Tony Pena            Player       3rd
    Deacon Phillippe     Player       3rd
    Bob Prince           Contributor  3rd
    Manny Sanguillen     Player       4th
    Willie Stargell      Player       1st
    Chuck Tanner         Contributor  3rd
    Pie Traynor          Player       1st
    Andy Van Slyke       Player       2nd
    Arky Vaughan         Player       1st
    Honus Wagner         Player       1st
    Paul Waner           Player       1st
    
    San Diego Padres (5)
    
    NAME                 ELECTED AS   RND
    Tony Gwynn           Player       1st
    Trevor Hoffman       Player       1st
    Randy Jones          Player       1st
    Terry Kennedy        Player       1st
    Dave Winfield        Player       1st
    
    San Francisco Giants (34)
    
    NAME                 ELECTED AS   RND
    Johnny Antonelli     Player       3rd
    Barry Bonds          Player       1st
    Bobby Bonds          Player       2nd
    Roger Bresnahan      Player       3rd
    George Burns         Player       3rd
    Orlando Cepeda       Player       2nd
    Will Clark           Player       2nd
    Roger Connor         Player       1st
    Roger Craig          Contributor  2nd
    George Davis         Player       2nd
    Art Devlin           Player       3rd
    Larry Doyle          Player       2nd
    Leo Durocher         Contributor  1st
    Buck Ewing           Player       3rd
    Frankie Frisch       Player       3rd
    Carl Hubbell         Player       1st
    Travis Jackson       Player       2nd
    Tim Keefe            Player       3rd
    Jeff Kent            Player       2nd
    Juan Marichal        Player       1st
    Christy Mathewson    Player       1st
    Willie Mays          Player       1st
    Willie McCovey       Player       1st
    John McGraw          Contributor  1st
    Johnny Mize          Player       3rd
    Mel Ott              Player       1st
    Gaylord Perry        Player       2nd
    Amos Rusie           Player       1st
    Bill Terry           Combination  1st
    Robby Thompson       Player       3rd
    Mike Tiernan         Player       3rd
    Mickey Welch         Player       2nd
    Matt Williams        Player       3rd
    Ross Youngs          Player       3rd
    
    Seattle Mariners (7)
    
    NAME                 ELECTED AS   RND
    Jay Buhner           Player       1st
    Alvin Davis          Player       1st
    Ken Griffey          Player       1st
    Randy Johnson        Player       1st
    Edgar Martinez       Player       1st
    Jamie Moyer          Player       1st
    Lou Piniella         Contributor  1st
    
    St. Louis Cardinals (27)
    
    NAME                 ELECTED AS   RND
    Jim Bottomley        Player       2nd
    Ken Boyer            Player       1st
    Harry Brecheen       Player       2nd
    Lou Brock            Player       1st
    Bob Caruthers        Player       3rd
    Dizzy Dean           Player       1st
    Jim Edmonds          Player       2nd
    Curt Flood           Player       2nd
    Frankie Frisch       Player       1st
    Bob Gibson           Player       1st
    Keith Hernandez      Player       2nd
    Whitey Herzog        Contributor  1st
    Rogers Hornsby       Player       1st
    Larry Jackson        Player       3rd
    Ray Lankford         Player       3rd
    Tony LaRussa         Contributor  2nd
    Marty Marion         Player       2nd
    Joe Medwick          Player       1st
    Johnny Mize          Player       1st
    Stan Musial          Player       1st
    Tip O'Neill          Player       2nd
    Branch Rickey        Contributor  1st
    Red Schoendienst     Player       2nd
    Ted Simmons          Player       1st
    Enos Slaughter       Player       1st
    Ozzie Smith          Player       1st
    Billy Southworth     Contributor  2nd
    
    Tampa Bay Rays (1)
    
    NAME                 ELECTED AS   RND
    Joe Maddon           Contributor  1st
    
    Texas Rangers (15)
    
    NAME                 ELECTED AS   RND
    Buddy Bell           Player       1st
    Will Clark           Player       2nd
    Julio Franco         Player       2nd
    Juan Gonzalez        Player       1st
    Toby Harrah          Player       1st
    Charlie Hough        Player       1st
    Frank Howard         Player       1st
    Fergie Jenkins       Player       2nd
    Ken McMullen         Player       2nd
    Johnny Oates         Contributor  1st
    Rafael Palmeiro      Player       1st
    Kenny Rogers         Player       1st
    Nolan Ryan           Combination  1st
    Ruben Sierra         Player       1st
    Jim Sundberg         Player       1st
    
    Toronto Blue Jays (11)
    
    NAME                 ELECTED AS   RND
    Roberto Alomar       Player       1st
    Jesse Barfield       Player       1st
    Joe Carter           Player       1st
    Carlos Delgado       Player       1st
    Tony Fernandez       Player       1st
    Cito Gaston          Contributor  1st
    Pat Gillick          Contributor  1st
    Tom Henke            Player       1st
    Jimmy Key            Player       1st
    John Olerud          Player       1st
    Dave Stieb           Player       1st
    
    Washington Nationals (8)
    
    NAME                 ELECTED AS   RND
    Felipe Alou          Contributor  1st
    Gary Carter          Player       1st
    Andre Dawson         Player       1st
    Dennis Martinez      Player       1st
    Tim Raines           Player       1st
    Steve Rogers         Player       1st
    Jose Vidro           Player       1st
    Tim Wallach          Player       1st
    And here's everyone who has been elected to multiple franchise HOFs. Nolan Ryan is the only individual so far to be elected to more than 2 Halls.

    Pete Alexander (Cubs and Phillies)
    Sparky Anderson (Reds and Tigers)
    Barry Bonds (Pirates and Giants)
    Jim Bunning (Tigers and Phillies)
    Will Clark (Giants and Rangers)
    Mickey Cochrane (Tigers and Athletics)
    Eddie Collins (White Sox and Athletics)
    Joe Cronin (Red Sox and Twins)
    George Davis (White Sox and Giants)
    Leo Durocher (Dodgers and Giants)
    Jim Edmonds (Angels and Cardinals)
    Bob Elliott (Braves and Pirates)
    Carlton Fisk (Red Sox and White Sox)
    Jimmie Foxx (Red Sox and Athletics)
    Frankie Frisch (Giants and Cardinals)
    Pat Gillick (Phillies and Blue Jays)
    Bobby Grich (Orioles and Angels)
    Lefty Grove (Red Sox and Athletics)
    Rickey Henderson (Yankees and Athletics)
    Keith Hernandez (Mets and Cardinals)
    Whitey Herzog (Royals and Cardinals)
    Gil Hodges (Dodgers and Mets)
    Fergie Jenkins (Cubs and Rangers)
    Randy Johnson (Diamondbacks and Mariners)
    Ralph Kiner (Mets and Pirates)
    Chet Lemon (White Sox and Tigers)
    Al Lopez (White Sox and Indians)
    Johnny Mize (Giants and Cardinals)
    Joe Morgan (Reds and Astros)
    Mike Mussina (Orioles and Yankees)
    Gaylord Perry (Indians and Giants)
    Mike Piazza (Dodgers and Mets)
    Manny Ramirez (Red Sox and Indians)
    Branch Rickey (Dodgers and Cardinals)
    Frank Robinson (Orioles and Reds)
    Babe Ruth (Red Sox and Yankees)
    Nolan Ryan (Astros, Angels, and Rangers)
    Curt Schilling (Diamondbacks and Phillies)
    Tris Speaker (Red Sox and Indians)
    Vern Stephens (Orioles and Red Sox)
    Joe Torre (Braves and Yankees)
    Bill Veeck (White Sox and Indians)
    Dave Winfield (Yankees and Padres)
    Last edited by Nerdlinger; 03-31-2012 at 03:32 PM.
    *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! *** Also: Buck the Fraves!

  5. #105
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    While making the list above, I discovered that Jim Edmonds was elected to the Cardinals HOF twice, in both the 2nd and 3rd round. Just thought I'd share that tidbit.
    *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! *** Also: Buck the Fraves!

  6. #106
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    [QUOTE=jalbright;1973875]Here's a case by jjpm to add William Shea as a contributor to the Mets:

    Quote Originally Posted by jjpm74 View Post
    From what I know of the Mets, it was William Shea and not Joan Payson who was the catalyst for getting a new team in NY. He was the one who proposed and formed the Continental League in the hopes of bringing a second team back to NY:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_League

    I will guarantee this will be presented.
    I would say if you had to pick one and only one pick Shea but if you are a broad based HOF person for these then there should be room for Joan Payson as well.

  7. #107
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    We've now finished the third round, and we'll start the fourth shortly. I expect the round to last six weeks from now, with one pair of teams going each week, with each election lasting for two weeks. The pairings will be:

    Yankees and Mets
    Braves and A's
    Red Sox and Tigers
    Dodgers and White Sox
    Pirates and Reds

    The Yankees are the only franchise which still has a contributor election.
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  8. #108
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    Updated the cumulative list. Bunning was added to the list of players elected to multiple Halls.
    *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! *** Also: Buck the Fraves!

  9. #109
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    After we finish the second chance election, I think I'll do a round which involves only candidates who were active in the game from 2010 onward.
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  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjpm74 View Post
    These are all excellent candidates who are glaring oversights. I plan on making a case for Johnny Kling who I also see as a glaring omission for the Chicago Cubs when I have the time. They were the one team in this project who definitely got short changed.
    I have at least the start of the case for Kling, I think:
    He was the best catcher in WAR in the majors 1902 and 1903, the second best (to Bresnahan each time) in 1906, 1907, and 1908, and 4th best (but 3rd in the NL) in 1910. The Cubs were in probably their best period from 1906-1910, and this guy was a big part of it.

    jjpm74 adds this for him:
    Quote Originally Posted by jjpm74 View Post
    I'm surprised that people are not voting for Johnny Kling at this point:

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...lingjo01.shtml

    Kling was one of the cornerstones of 4 pennants in the most dominant era in the team's long history
    Last edited by jalbright; 02-12-2012 at 08:57 AM.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
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  11. #111
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    Here's a case jjpm74 made for Harry Wright as a contributor for the Braves:

    A lot of this organization's early success is due to Harry Wright. More here.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
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  12. #112
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    Here's a case made by dgarza and BigRon for Del Crandall of the Braves:

    Quote Originally Posted by BigRon View Post
    I'll post tomorrow. I'm amazed and dismayed that Del Crandall has only 3 of 7 votes so far. Crandall was an outstanding defensive catcher for many years, and by standards of the time, a decent hitter for a catcher. He was an important part of the strong Braves teams of the 50s through early 60s. He'll get my vote, and should have more than he has garnered, in my opinion.
    For me, Del Crandall was my #1 choice this round. He may not have played the most games or have the highest WAR or be the "best" statistical eligible Braves candidate available, but he is pretty high on the list.
    And then add to that 4 Gold Gloves and 11 All Star Games (for 8 seasons)[8 as a starter]. He led league in catching assists 6 times.
    And he's a member of the real Braves HOF (he's 1 of just 15 player inductees).
    Lost 2 years to Korean War.
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  13. #113
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    Here's a case made for Bud Selig as a contributor of the Brewers:

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    I'd like to point out Bud Selig's name for contributor. You'll find a strong disdain for Selig here but no one can deny the gratitude people have for him bringing a team to Milwaukee.
    Last edited by jalbright; 02-12-2012 at 11:36 AM.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
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  14. #114
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    Here's a case for Jesse Haines with the Cardinals, made by DoubleX:

    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleX View Post
    Jesse Haines [is] second in both IP and wins with the Cardinals, and his 109 ERA+ should be decent enough to merit induction here.
    He later added this:
    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleX View Post
    It really seems that Jesse Haines is suffering from the stigma of being a poor Cooperstown selection. He was a staple of the Cardinals rotation for 15 years, as he is one of only two pitchers with the Cardinals with 3,000+ IP and one of only with 200+ wins. He also pitched well in four World Series, posting a 1.67 ERA in 32 IP. His 109 ERA+ isn't great, but in the context of just this franchise but should be good enough given his longevity with the franchise, and I don't think any pitcher contributed more to the Cardinals save Bob Gibson.
    Last edited by jalbright; 02-12-2012 at 11:35 AM.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
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  15. #115
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    DoubleX gave us this case on behalf of Jimmy Ryan of the Cubs:
    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleX View Post
    I suspect Jimmy Ryan may be a forgotten man here, but his 15 seasons in centerfield for the Cubs with a 125 OPS+ merits a good look, IMO.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
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  16. #116
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    Paul Wendt gave us this for Frank Selee as a contributor with the Cubs:

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Wendt View Post
    Certainly I will vote for Frank Selee if i cast a ballot. Who better? He was the architect of a great team, one of "only" two great teams that played more than a season or two for this club. I know that by reputation but also by inference from reading contemporary news. Among others the team had lost Clark Griffith to the AL, the only plausible captain/manager after Anson. None of the remaining players were important recruiters or scouts. Both Tom Loftus (before the 1901 losses) and Frank Selee were hired as professional managers to rebuild the team.
    Last edited by jalbright; 02-12-2012 at 11:35 AM.
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  17. #117
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    DoubleX made this argument for Herb Score as a contributor for the Indians:
    Noteworthy for contributions as a player and long-time broadcaster
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  18. #118
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    Domenic made this argument for Dave Niehaus as a contributor for the Mariners:

    Niehaus was the voice of the Mariners for 34 years, coining the nicknames A-Rod and 'The Kid' while winning a Frick Award along the way.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
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  19. #119
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    Here's both sides of the issue on Gary Carter with the Mets, DoubleX taking the "no" side:
    Quote Originally Posted by jjpm74 View Post
    It's hard to ignore how amazing Carter was while on the Mets. He was one of the main reasons they were as good as they were from 1985-1988.
    I was most torn on Carter. When I first got into baseball as a young kid, the Mets were for a few years my favorite team. It was during that '85-'88 period, perhaps the one and only time the Mets were able to eclipse the Yankees in popularity in New York. So given their success all the hype around them, it was hard for a young kid such as myself to ignore. Carter was actually one of my favorite, if not my favorite player on the team at that time. He team with Keith Hernandez to provide a necessary and valuable veteran presence which pushed the team over the top.

    That all being said, I look at the numbers now, and Carter's overall career with the Mets wasn't that impressive. Less than 2500 plate appearances is a pretty small sample size, and the 104 OPS+ isn't that great, especially considering the small sample size.

    All told, I'm still torn. He did have two big years with the team and was subjectively, a very important piece of the puzzle, but the whole of his career with the team isn't that impressive.
    jjpm74 replied with:
    Quote Originally Posted by jjpm74 View Post
    One intangible about Carter is that beyond the offensive numbers, he was also a smart catcher who, along with Mel Stottlemyre, might deserve some credit for how well that pitching staff was. Gooden, Fernandez and Darling were all solid pitchers with or without a good catcher, but the Mets also saw pitchers like Aguilera and Leach enjoy a great deal of success during that period.
    I added this thought:
    I know what standards I'm looking for, but I don't think it's outlandish for voters to expect several all-star type years or a MVP/Cy Young type year (especially the Cleon Jones model--in a surprise World Series year). Carter was a four time all-star with the Mets. Now, that arguably has something to do with 1) his reputation, and 2) his competition in the NL for a catching slot. Even so, he was a 4 time all-star.
    Last edited by jalbright; 02-12-2012 at 11:03 AM.
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  20. #120
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    Here is Brooklyn's case for Ed Kranepool with the Mets, followed by my responses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brooklyn View Post
    [H]ere is my plea for Kranepool - I'm surprised he is getting so little support. He was certainly not a superstar, but he was on the Mets every year in the 60's and 70's. I would never vote a player into Cooperstown based solely on longevity, but it is something special for a player to be on one team so long. And with his 97 career OPS+, he wasn't as bad as he is sometimes remembered (granted, you want more from your IB/OF, but this isn't just about stats). Due to my age i didn't really start following baseball until the late 70's, but I can't think of the first two decades of the Mets without including Kranepool. Through 5the Mets 50 years of existence, he is still their all time leader in hits, games played and at-bats, second in total bases and doubles, and top 10 in runs, triples, RBIs and homeruns. While that might be more indicitive of the anemic Mets offense over the years, someone that high up on all their leaderboards deserves to be in the team hall of fame.
    Quote Originally Posted by jalbright View Post
    I know what standards I'm looking for, but I don't think it's outlandish for voters to expect several all-star type years or a MVP/Cy Young type year (especially the Cleon Jones model--in a surprise World Series year). Kranepool, was only a one time all-star in 1965--probably the Met representative in a day when every team had at least one all-star. If you look at Kranepool's WAR, he never had a season as good as 2 WAR--and five is all-star level. In fact, his career WAR is 4.4. At that level of play, I don't care how long Kranepool was a Met. I'm not a Met fan, and I'm not going to get a largely emotionally based case--and one of the prices this project exacts is that those types of cases for players are exceedingly tough to succeed with.
    After a little discussion with jjpm74, I posted this:
    Quote Originally Posted by jalbright View Post
    I didn't have time to respond about Kranepool earlier. If we look at the three elements of WAR I use, he can't even come close to Franco:
    career: 4.4
    top 3: 5.1
    top 5 consecutive: 4.7

    That's not impressive for an everyday player, to say the least. If we dig into the WAR at bb-ref, we find that he had only four seasons where his total runs above replacement were less than the run differential between average and replacement for a player with as much playing time as he had:
    1962 when both figures were 0 ( 6 PA);
    1971 when he had three more runs above replacement than average for his playing time;
    1975 when he had his highest total above replacement than average for his playing time, a whopping four runs; and
    1976 when he had two more runs above replacement than an average player for his playing time.

    All other seasons were below average by this measure. In other words, 1) it's being kind to say Kranepool was mediocre, and 2) Kranepool's one notable attribute was his ability to keep a job with the Mets. IMHO, putting Kranepool into the team HOF turns what should be an honor into a gold watch earned solely by a sufficient amount of playing time. I resolutely refuse to go there.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
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  21. #121
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    Here's a debate between myself and jjpm74 over John Franco and the Mets:

    Quote Originally Posted by jjpm74 View Post
    It can't be overstated how important Franco was to this franchise. He was the face of the franchise for 15 years and their closer for most of that time.
    I replied with this:
    Quote Originally Posted by jalbright View Post
    He also amassed only 12.8 WAR in those 14 seasons. Pass.
    Jjpm74 responded:
    Quote Originally Posted by jjpm74 View Post
    1. WAR is not a reliable tool when looking at relievers.
    2. You have Cleon Jones on your ballot who managed a whopping 17.3 WAR as an everyday player.
    I answered:
    Quote Originally Posted by jalbright View Post
    WAR isn't perfect, but if he was, oh, a total of 10 WAR higher in the three measures I look at, I could go for him. As it is, he has 5.2 WAR in his best 3 seasons and a best 5 consecutive of 7.2. Jones had 15.3 in his best 3, and 16.6 in his best 5, plus his best season was for a world champion. Even so, he just squeaks in for me, basically because he really put everything into 3 years. Franco was there a long time, but IMHO he wasn't ever overwhelming with the Mets. It's also hard to do enough to get in when those whole 14 years total just over 700 IP. Interestingly, Franco was more valuable with the Reds in all three measures: 13.5 career, 9.0 best three, and 12.6 in best 5 consecutive. Basically, if he could have had a peak for the Mets like he had with the Reds, I think I'd support him.
    Jjpm74 posted this:
    Quote Originally Posted by jjpm74 View Post
    I'd like to remind everyone voting for this franchise that John Franco was elected to the NY Mets Hall of Fame this year:

    Read here for more.

    Another article that shows just how important Franco is to his fans.

    This guy was the heart and soul of the Mets for 14 years. For a project like this, it is important to not just crunch numbers and think about the role a given player had for a given franchise and the impact he had as a leader and to fans of the team who were the ones who watched and cheered for him every day.

    For the stat minded, John Franco is one of the all time saves leaders and put up an impressive career as a closer.
    I compared Franco to the weakest reliever I had supported in the project, Kent Tekulve:
    Quote Originally Posted by jalbright View Post
    [S]ince this is only in terms of performance for the franchise, I consider only the WAR for the franchise. Franco was at his best as a Red, but that's irrelevant to whether he belongs in the Met HOF. I also look at peak performance for the franchise. Let's look at Franco and the weakest reliever I voted for, Kent Tekulve of the Pirates with my main measures:

    Franco
    career WAR with franchise 12.8
    best 3 seasons of WAR with franchise 5.2
    best 5 consecutive WAR with franchise 7.2

    Tekulve
    career WAR with franchise 18.8
    best 3 seasons of WAR with franchise 9.7
    best 5 consecutive WAR with franchise 11.4

    We can also compare Tekulve and Franco with the Pirates and Mets, respectively in terms of how they performed against the relievers who were their peers. Franco, when compared to other relievers (defined as relieving at least 80% of their appearances) of his time, never had a season where he ranked higher than 19th , in 1997. Tekulve had five rankings better than that, a 4th in 1978, a 5th in 1983, a 7th in 1979, a 13th in 1981, and an 18th in 1982.
    Another guy who could be considered the weakest reliever I've supported is Roy Face of the Pirates. I'll do the same comparison for him:

    Face
    career WAR with franchise 16.9
    best 3 seasons of WAR with franchise 8.7
    best 5 consecutive WAR with franchise 10.3

    But when we compare Face to his peer relievers, he was better than Tekulve: 2d overall in 1956 and 1962, 3d overall in 1959, 7th in 1960, 8th in 1958, 14th in 1966 and 1967, and 18th in 1957. It's a close call between Teke and Face, but both comfortably outperformed Franco.
    Last edited by jalbright; 02-12-2012 at 12:51 PM.
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  22. #122
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    Paul Wendt mentioned this for Ray Miller as a contributor for the Orioles:
    from Ray Miller at wikipedia
    >>It was announced March 22, 2010 that Miller will be inducted into the Baltimore Orioles Hall of Fame. Press release from mlb.com: "Miller will be enshrined for his work as a pitching coach with the Orioles. He had three stints with the Birds in that role - 1978-85, 1997 and 2004-05.
    <<
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  23. #123
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    DoubleX had this to say about Bill DeWitt as a contributor for the Orioles:

    Quote Originally Posted by Beady View Post
    I see Bill DeWitt has gotten a number of votes and Luke Sewell none at all. Can I ask why that is?

    I often find it difficult to decide whether the manager of a winning team or the general manager or GM-equivalent should get more credit.
    Bill DeWitt was with the organization I believe for over 20 years, and perhaps as much as 30, rising through the organization in various capacities before becoming general manager and I believe a part owner for about 15 years. So I think he played a much bigger role in the organization, especially given the length of his service, than Sewell did during his six year managerial run.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
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  24. #124
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    hwmongoose made this pitch for Chuck Thompson as a contributor for the Orioles:
    Quote Originally Posted by hwmongoose View Post
    Contributors:
    Chuck Thompson, longtime radio announcer extraordinaire
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
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  25. #125
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    Here's JW's case for Dave McNally for the Orioles:
    Quote Originally Posted by J W View Post
    McNally is not favored by the WAR system (21.2 WAR in 13 seasons) but then, none of the pitchers for the Baltimore Orioles in their glory years are. McNally is a consummate Oriole having spent nearly his entire career there. He won 183 games for the Orioles at a .616 clip, sported a proud 3.18 ERA (108 ERA+), a 1.203 WHIP and was durable, starting over 30 games eight times (averaging 226 IP per 162 games). He has three top-five CYA finishes, getting as close as 2nd in 1970. He also finished 5th in MVP voting in 1968, his best season (152 ERA+, 0.842 WHIP!). What seals the deal is his postseason performance: 14 games (12 started), 7-4, 2.49 ERA, 1.096 WHIP and four World Series appearances (winning twice).
    Last edited by jalbright; 02-13-2012 at 06:36 PM.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
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