This is our fifty-fourth election in this project. The entire rules follow.
This election will end at 11:59:59 PM EST on January 21, 2011.
The prior election, and the ballots of the 1988 voters, are in this thread
Researcher/advocate/mod
This is our fifty-fourth election in this project. The entire rules follow.
This election will end at 11:59:59 PM EST on January 21, 2011.
The prior election, and the ballots of the 1988 voters, are in this thread
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Researcher/advocate/mod
Rules
1) All BBF users in good standing may participate. However, if there is more than one vote being cast from any one computer or IP, it must be cleared in advance. Should there be unannounced multiple votes from the same IP, I will investigate the circumstances, and all user names involved may be barred from this project as a result, and all but one of the multiple usernames permanently banned from the site. I only anticipate exceptions for family members living in the same home, but I will entertain requests on other bases. Please note that I and the other mods who participate in the project have the capability of determining the IP from which posts come, and I for one intend to monitor same. I have had to deal with a single user manipulating a project with multiple votes, and I don't intend to repeat the experience.
2) Elections will require a 10 voter quorum. If we do not get ten voters and there are candidate(s) who would be elected no matter what the voters needed to make a quorum did, those candidate(s) will be inducted. Otherwise, no one will be inducted. Further, if we fail to meet a quorum in two of any four consecutive elections, the portion(s) of the project failing to meet the quorum requirement will end. If, for instance, we're doing fine on the player end but not the contributor end, I would drop the contributor end under this rule.
3) We will start in 1936, just as Cooperstown did. For the first election (1936), voters will rank their top 20, taking 10. After that we will go to having voters rank their top 12 players. Points awarded 12-11-10, etc. We will take the top five through 1940, then top three players per year elected until 2010, then two per year. If a voter does not number his selections, I will try to get him/her to do so. If they do not do so before the end of the election period, I may in my sole discretion invalidate the ballot. I have included this provision in order to ease the process of recording the votes. On another point, I know, the 1936 backlog is huge--but that was a historical issue they couldn't avoid, so neither will we.
4) We will also have a contributor ballot, which will elect one a year through 1985, then one every three (3) years. Contributors will be ranked 1 through 5, with points awarded 5-4-3-2-1. Voters may choose to participate in either one of the ballots or both.
5) It is permissible to vote for a candidate on both the contributor and player lists.
6) You are allowed to change your ballot at any time the voting is open. However, if you change your ballot, you've got to notify me (jalbright) by PM or by a new post in the voting thread, or the changes likely will not be registered.
7) Players are eligible at the later of age 45 or the first year thereafter in which the player does not play. If the birthdate is not known, add five years to the first time the player misses a season and has less than 10 games the next season. There is an exception for early death, in which case the year of death plus two will be used if that yields an earlier date.
8) Contributors become eligible at age 65 or in the year of death plus two. whichever comes first.
9) Each election will run for approximately two weeks unless expressly altered by the project manager, contributors and players done simultaneously.
10) No one is excluded from being a candidate, regardless of the league they played in, except those elected in either the contributor or player ballots. At that point, they are removed from further consideration. If there are players who returned to the Negro Leagues or Japan after going to the majors, the departure from the majors will be their career end date for purposes of this project.
11) The standard for including a player on one's ballot is that the player must in the voter's opinion be among the very best eligible players (preferably the number voted on, but if a voter wishes to support someone they feel is 15th in a 12 person ballot instead of one of the top 12, it's too close for anyone to reasonably object. On the other hand, supporting the 25th best eligible candidate on a 12 person ballot is probably beyond the pale). I reserve the power to invalidate ballots which I do not feel are a reasonably knowledgeable, good faith effort to rank the players. One issue I am quite concerned about is that I do not want to see what clearly appear to be attempts to manipulate the ballot so as to elect a candidate. In isolation, I probably could live with this, but if it became a widely used tactic, the project would devolve into something I have no desire to be associated with. Moreover, I think that this position asks everyone else to cast legitimate votes so that you can manipulate the system to favor your pet candidates. I cannot accept that, as it strikes me as unfair to other voters. For example, you can't expect to favor even a legitimate HOF candidate like Bill Dahlen over Babe Ruth to get Dahlen elected without being asked to provide a reasonable justification for ranking Dahlen over Ruth. If you can provide a reasonable justification in that scenario, the ballot will stand. If not, you will be asked to make a change. I realize voters will sometimes have idiosyncratic choices, and I try to allow for that. However, a clear flouting of a consensus is apt to be met with a request that the ballot be justified pursuant to this rule. Certainly, a reasonable justification does not indicate in essence simply that you want Dahlen elected. Furthermore, if I invalidate multiple ballots by the same individual as failing to meet this rule, that individual will forever lose the right to have his/her ballots counted. Voters are encouraged to consider character, sportsmanship, and compliance with the rules and spirit of baseball in their rankings of players.
12) I will post lists of eligible players and contributors before each election. If you have a question about the eligibility of a candidate, please ask. I will provide a list of future eligibility dates as well.
13) My eligibility lists come from all persons in the BBF HOF, BBTF Hall of Merit, and Cooperstown, plus all persons getting a vote in a BBF HOF election in the past year and a half or in a BBWAA election. This is a relatively comprehensive list, and thus I must request that if you want another candidate included, you provide some justification for why said candidate is worthy of getting a vote in this project. The main area I think this might come into play is if a voter supports a person who was eligible for the final selections from the recent pre WWII or Negro League committees but not on my master list. That fact alone would serve as ample justification for putting said candidate on the list. We may learn more about Cuban ball or what have you and thus include others after a case is made for them, however. The contributor list is undoubtedly not as comprehensive, and this fact will be taken into consideration. For players, any request for a multiple time all-star in the all-star era will be approved. Players of that quality will generally be approved without much ado. However, when a player lacks that kind of qualification, I will likely ask for you to get a second from among our voters via a post in the current election thread. When in doubt, I will also require a second for suggested contributors. If a second is forthcoming, the player will be added. If not, the request will be rejected. I want to limit requests and seconds to players or contributors you actually might vote for.
14) Other than the sportsmanship and character issues, players are to be evaluated solely upon their play. I would prefer that if a player is qualified by his play standing alone that he be elected on that basis. However, a candidate may only be elected either as a contributor or a player, but not both. Contributors are the area where the entire body of work during his career in the sport, including his play, managing, scouting, executive, writing, broadcasting or other work in the sport is relevant. Contributors are to be ranked based on who the voter thinks is most worthy of induction into the Contributor group in this project.
15) Any ballot with two (2) or more spots unfilled with eligible candidates is invalid. In the event of the listing of ineligible names, I will try to notify the voter so that he/she can correct the ballot before the end of the voting period. If the change is made timely, it will count. If not, and there are two or more invalid names, the ballot will not be considered valid. If there is only one, the ineligible name will be stricken and all names after it on the affected ballot will be moved up one spot.
16) Any players listed beyond the 12th place for any ballot but the first (in which case it is 20th place) will be ignored. If more than one person is listed as tied for the last available place and the ballot is oversize, all names will be dropped, which may lead to the invalidation of the ballot.
17) Ties are not permitted in ballot listings. I reserve the right to invalidate ballots for use of ties in the rankings, be it within a single ballot or over the course of several ballots. If the voter does not correct such a listing voluntarily, except in the case of an oversize ballot tie for the last eligible place, if do not invalidate the ballot, I will choose the placement of the two "tied" candidates, generally preferring the candidate preferred by the other voters.
18) For any ties between candidates straddling the in/out line of selections, the first thing considered is the ranking of the candidates by the ballots cast. If there are more than two candidates tied, use a 2-1-0 or whatever is appropriate for the number of players tied system. If a voter does not list a candidate, he receives zero points in the tiebreaker procedure. Once one person separates from the tied group, restart with the remaining candidates until there are only as many candidates as the rules call for being elected. If they remain tied after this process, the candidate with the most votes received wins. If it is still tied after that, those with the most #1 votes as the next step, then the most #2 votes and so on to see if that breaks the tie. If not, we will induct all candidates who remain tied at that point.
19) One thing we're going to have to be aware of is the timeline in the case of at least a few contributors. Two which jump out at me are Buck O'Neill, 1976, and Branch Rickey, 1946. I intend to eventually vote for both men, but in 1946, Jackie Robinson was still in Montreal. Really, Branch should wait until at least 1947 after Jackie's success in the majors to get credit for that move. If you think Rickey belongs in the top 5 in 1946 without his role in breaking the color line, that's fine--but he shouldn't get credit for that important success until it actually happened. Buck O'Neill did some important things up until 1976, but after that he was in Ken Burns' Baseball and he was instrumental in the establishment of the Negro Leagues Hall of Fame (both occurred in or around 1994). If you think he belongs based on accomplishments before those two things, that's perfectly acceptable, but please don't credit him with them before they actually happened.
20) I will maintain a thread of the project's history and rules which will provide a listing of all elected candidates.
21) Feel free to ask questions by either sending jalbright a PM, or by posting a question in voting thread
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Researcher/advocate/mod
The players who become eligible in 1989 are:
On the contributor side, we add these names in 1989:Code:Bando , Sal Belanger , Mark Bibby , Jim Blair , Paul Carlton , Steve Harrelson , Bud Jackson , Sonny Lyle , Sparky McGraw , Tug McLain , Denny Nettles , Graig Niekro , Joe Sanguillen , Manny Seaver , Tom Staub , Rusty
Code:Berger , Sy Buck , Jack Campbell , Jim
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Researcher/advocate/mod
The 1988 player candidates who were not elected had these results in the that election:
The 1988 contributor candidates who were not elected had these results in the that election:Code:Player…………….. votes pts Moore , Dobie 8 54 Mendez , Jose 9 53 Oms, Alejandro 9 51 Lemon, Bob 9 49 Smith, Hilton 9 49 Grimes , Burleigh 7 45 Joss , Addie 6 41 Roush , Edd 6 30 Tiant, Luis 6 29 Rixey , Eppa 4 28 Torre, Joe 5 25 Brock, Lou 4 24 Jennings , Hughie 3 22 Bresnahan , Roger 6 21 Berger , Wally 2 15 Wynn, Jimmy 3 14 Brown, Willard 2 13 McVey , Cal 2 13 Beckley , Jake 3 10 Richardson , Hardy 1 10 Keller , Charlie 1 9 Kelley , Joe 2 9 Elliott, Bob 1 7 Howard, Frank 1 7 Cepeda, Orlando 2 6 Sheckard , Jimmy 2 6 Aparicio, Luis 1 4 Freehan, Bill 1 4 Childs , Cupid 1 3 Gomez, Lefty 1 2 Matlock, Leroy 1 1 Rice , Sam 1 1 Sewell , Joe 1 1
I strongly suggest that you pay attention to this list, as the leaders of the holdovers are likely to join any strong newcomer candidates as the leaders for winning induction.Code:Contributor……….. votes pts Lopez, Al... 7 19 Frick, Ford 5 18 Tsuruoka, Kazuto 6 17 Rizzuto, Phil 4 16 Greenlee, Gus 5 14 Caray, Harry 2 8 Evans, Billy 2 8 Caylor , O. P. 2 7 Chandler, Happy 2 6 Harris, Vic 3 6 Ferguson, Bob 2 4 Krichell, Paul 1 4 Smith, Red 1 4 Jennings , Hughie 1 3 McCarthy, Tommy 1 2 Murtaugh, Danny 1 2 Giles , Warren 1 1 Murnane, Tim 1 1
Last edited by jalbright; 01-08-2011 at 02:08 PM.
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Researcher/advocate/mod
Members of the Best of Baseball Hall. Last election's inductees are in red.
Players
ContributorsCode:Hank Aaron Pete Alexander Dick Allen Cap Anson Luke Appling Richie Ashburn Earl Averill Frank Baker Ernie Banks Ross Barnes John Beckwith Cool Papa Bell Charlie Bennett Yogi Berra Akira Bessho Lou Boudreau Ken Boyer Dan Brouthers Mordecai Brown Ray Brown Jim Bunning Jesse Burkett Roy Campanella Max Carey Bob Caruthers Oscar Charleston Fred Clarke John Clarkson Roberto Clemente Ty Cobb Mickey Cochrane Eddie Collins Jimmy Collins Roger Connor Stan Coveleski Sam Crawford Joe Cronin Bill Dahlen George Davis Dizzy Dean Ed Delahanty Bill Dickey Martin Dihigo Joe DiMaggio Larry Doby Bobby Doerr Don Drysdale Buck Ewing Red Faber Bob Feller Wes Ferrell Elmer Flick Whitey Ford Willie Foster Nellie Fox Jimmie Foxx Frankie Frisch Pud Galvin Lou Gehrig Charlie Gehringer Bob Gibson Josh Gibson Jack Glasscock Joe Gordon George Gore Goose Goslin Frank Grant Hank Greenberg Heinie Groh Lefty Grove Stan Hack Billy Hamilton Isao Harimoto Gabby Hartnett Harry Heilmann Billy Herman Pete Hill Paul Hines Rogers Hornsby Carl Hubbell Kazuhisa Inao Monte Irvin Joe Jackson Ferguson Jenkins Grant "Home Run"Johnson Walter Johnson Al Kaline Masaichi Kaneda Tim Keefe Willie Keeler King Kelly Harmon Killebrew Ralph Kiner Sandy Koufax Nap LaJoie Buck Leonard Pop Lloyd Ted Lyons Biz Mackey Sherry Magee Mickey Mantle Juan Marichal Eddie Mathews Christy Mathewson Willie Mays Willie McCovey Joe McGinnity Bid McPhee Joe Medwick Minnie Minoso Johnny Mize Joe Morgan Stan Musial Shigeo Nagashima Hal Newhouser Kid Nichols Phil Niekro Katsuya Nomura Sadaharu Oh Jim O'Rourke Mel Ott Satchel Paige Gaylord Perry Eddie Plank Charlie Radbourn Pee Wee Reese Robin Roberts Brooks Robinson Frank Robinson Jackie Robinson Bullet Joe Rogan Pete Rose Red Ruffing Amos Rusie Babe Ruth Ron Santo Louis Santop Al Simmons George Sisler Enos Slaughter Duke Snider Warren Spahn Tris Speaker Victor Starffin Willie Stargell Joe Start Turkey Stearnes Harry Stovey Mule Suttles Ezra Sutton Bill Terry Sam Thompson Cristobal Torriente Pie Traynor Dazzy Vance Arky Vaughan Rube Waddell Honus Wagner Bobby Wallace Ed Walsh Paul Waner John M. Ward Willie Wells Zack Wheat Deacon White Hoyt Wilhelm Billy Williams Smoky Joe Williams Ted Williams Jud Wilson George Wright Early Wynn Carl Yastrzemski Cy Young
Code:Doc Adams Mel Allen Walter Alston Red Barber Ed Barrow Buzzue Bavasi Ed Bolden Alexander Cartwright Henry Chadwick Frank Chance Charlie Commiskey Charles Conlon Tom Connolly Jim Creighton Jack Dunn Leo Durocher Rube Foster Clark Griffith Ned Hanlon William Hulbert Miller Huggins Ban Johnson Tetsuharu Kawakami Bill Klem Kenesaw Landis Connie Mack Larry MacPhail Joe McCarthy John McGraw Bill McKechnie Marvin Miller Walter O'Malley Dickey Pearce Cum Posey A. J. Reach Francis Richter Branch Rickey Jacob Ruppert Frank Selee Ben Shibe Matsutaro Shoriki Billy Southworth Al Spalding Alfred Spink J. G. T. Spink Casey Stengel C. I. Taylor Bill Veeck George Weiss Sol White J. L. Wilkinson Harry Wright
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Researcher/advocate/mod
The complete list of eligible players:
The complete list of eligible contributors:Code:Adams , Babe Adams , Bobby Adams , Sparky Allen , Johnny Alou , Jesus Alou , Matty Alou, Felipe Altrock , Nick Aparicio, Luis Archer , Jimmy Arlett , Buzz Austin , Jimmy Avila, Bobby Bailey , Bob Bancroft , Dave Bando , Sal Barry , Jack Bartell , Dick Battin , Joe Bauer , Hank Beaumont , Ginger Beckert, Glenn Beckley , Jake Belanger , Mark Bender , Chief Benton , Larry Berg , Moe Bergen , Marty Berger , Wally Berry , Charlie Bibby , Jim Bigbee , Carson Billingham , Jack Bishop , Max Blackwell , Ewell Blades , Ray Blair , Paul Blass , Steve Blue , Lu Bluege , Ossie Bodie , Ping Boley , Joe Bond , Tommy Bottomley , Jim Boyer , Clete Bradley , Bill Brecheen , Harry Breitenstein , Ted Bresnahan , Roger Brewer , Jim Bridges , Tommy Brock, Lou Brown , Willard Browning , Pete Bruton, Bill Burdette , Lew Burgess , Smoky Burns , George J. Bush , Joe Bush , Donie Bush , Guy Cadore , Leon Camilli , Dolph Camnitz , Howie Campaneris , Bert Cardenal , Jose Cardenas , Leo Carlton , Steve Carrasquel. Chico Carrigan , Bill Carroll, Clay Case , George Cash, Norm Cavaretta , Phil Cepeda , Orlando Cepeda , Perucho Chandler , Spud Chapman , Ben Chapman , Ray Chapman , Sam Chase , Hal Chesbro , Jack Childs , Cupid Cicotte , Eddie Cissell , Bill Clark , Watty Clarkson , Bus Clift, Harlond Coakley , Andy Colavito, Rocky Collins , Shano Combs , Earle Conroy , Wid Coombs , Jack Cooper , Andy Cooper , Mort Cooper , Walker Cooper , Wilbur Courtney , Clint Cox , Billy Crandall , Doc Crandall, Del Cravath , Gavvy Criger , Lou Critz , Hughie Cross , Lave Crowder , Al Cruise , Walt Cuccinello , Tony Cummings , Candy Cuyler , Kiki Dandridge , Ray Danning , Harry Dark , Alvin Daubert , Jake Davis , Curt Davis , Harry Davis , Spud Day , Leon Derringer , Paul DiMaggio , Dom Dinneen , Bill Doak , Bill Donlin , Mike Donovan , Bill Dooin , Red Doyle , Jack Doyle , Larry Dropo , Walt Duffy , Hugh Dugan , Joe Dunlap , Fred Dykes , Jimmy Earnshaw , George Easter, Luke Edwards , Hank Ehmke , Howard Elberfeld , Kid Elliott , Bob Elliott , Jumbo Ennis, Del Ens , Jewel Erskine , Carl Evers , Johnny Face, Roy Fairly , Ron Falkenberg , Cy Ferrell , Rick Fitzsimmons , Freddie Fletcher , Art Flood , Curt Fonseca , Lew Foster , Eddie Fraser , Chick Freehan, Bill Fregosi , Jim Furillo , Carl Galan , Augie Garver, Ned Gelbert , Charlie Gleason , Kid Gomez , Lefty Gonzalez , Mike Gowdy , Hank Grant , Eddie Grantham , George Grimes , Burleigh Grimm , Charlie Grissom , Marv Groat, Dick Gromek , Steve Grove , Orval Gustine , Frank Haas , Mule Haddix, Harvey Hafey , Chick Hahn , Noodles Haines , Jesse Hallahan , Bill Harder , Mel Hargrave , Bubbles Harrelson , Bud Harris , Bucky Harris , Vic Hatton , Grady Hearn , Jim Hegan , Jim Helms, Tommy Hemus , Solly Henrich , Tommy Herman , Babe Herzog , Buck Hickman , Jim Higgins , Mike Hiller , John Hinchman , Bill Hodges, Gil Holmes , Tommy Hooper , Harry Horton , Willie Houtteman , Art Howard , Frank Howard, Elston Hoy , Dummy Hoyt , Waite Huggins , Miller Hutchinson , Fred Irwin , Charlie Jackman , Will Jackson , Sonny Jennings , Hughie Jensen , Jackie Johnson , Bob Johnson , Davey Johnson , Judy Jones , Charley Jones , Fielder Jones , Sam P. Jordan , Tim Joss , Addie Judge , Joe Jurges , Billy Kaat, Jim Kamm , Willie Kawakami , Tetsuharu Kell , George Keller , Charlie Kelley , Joe Keltner , Ken Kerr , Dickie Kessinger , Don Killefer , Bill Kilroy , Matt Kinder , Ellis Klein , Chuck Kling , Johnny Kluszewski, Ted Knabe , Otto Koosman , Jerry Koyama, Masaaki Kremer , Ray Kress , Red Kuenn, Harvey Kuhel , Joe Kuzava , Bob Lange , Bill Lanier , Hal Larkin , Henry Larsen, Don Latham , Arlie Lavagetto , Cookie Law, Vern Lazzeri , Tony Leach , Freddy Leach , Tommy Lee , Bill Leever , Sam Lemon , Bob Leonard , Emil (Dutch) Lewis , Duffy Lewis, Buddy Lindstrom , Freddie Lobert , Hans Lockman , Whitey Lolich, Mickey Lollar, Sherm Lombardi , Ernie Lonborg , Jim Long , Herman Lopat , Ed Lopez , Al Lowe , Bobby Lucas , Red Lundy , Dick Luque , Dolf Lyle , Sparky Lyons , Denny Maglie , Sal Maloney, Jim Mancuso , Gus Manush , Heinie Maranville , Rabbit Marberry , Firpo Marion , Marty Maris, Roger Marquard , Rube Marshall , Mike G. Martin , Morrie Martin , Pepper Mathews , Bobby May , Lee Mays , Carl Mazeroski , Bill McAleer , Jimmy McCarthy , Tommy McCarver , Tim McCormick , Frank McCormick , Jim McDaniel , Lindy McDougald, Gil McGowan , Bill McGraw , Tug McInnis , Stuffy McLain , Denny McLean , Larry McMahon, Don McManus , Marty McMillan, Roy McNally , Dave McVey , Cal Meadows , Lee Mendez , Jose Meusel , Bob Miksis , Eddie Milan , Clyde Millan , Felix Miller , Bing Miller , Dots Miller , Hack Monroe , Bill Moon, Wally Moore , Dobie Moore , Jo-Jo Moore , Terry Moran , Pat Mostil , Johnny Mota, Manny Mulcahy , Hugh Mullane , Tony Mungo , Van Munson , Thurman Murphy , Danny Murray , Red Myer , Buddy Nehf , Art Nettles , Graig Newcombe , Don Newsom , Bobo Nicholson , Bill Niekro , Joe Northey , Ron O'Doul , Lefty Oeschger , Joe O'Farrell , Bob O'Leary , Charlie Oliva, Tony Oms , Alejandro O'Neill , Buck O'Neill , Steve O'Neill , Tip Orr , Dave Pabor , Charlie Pafko , Andy Pascual, Camilo Paskert , Dode Pearson , Monte Peckinpaugh , Roger Peitz , Heinie Pennock , Herb Perdue , Hub Perez , Tony Perkins , Cy Perranoski , Ron Perry , Jim Pesky , Johnny Petrocelli, Rico Phillippe , Deacon Pierce , Billy Pike , Lip Piniella, Lou Pinson, Vada Pipp , Wally Podres, Johnny Poles , Spotswood Porterfield , Bob Powell , Boog Power , Vic Pruett , Hub Quinn , Jack Raschi , Vic Raymond , Bugs Redding , Dick Reiser , Pete Remsen , Jack Reynolds , Allie Rice , Del Rice , Sam Richardson , Bobby Richardson , Hardy Ring , Jimmy Ritchey , Claude Rixey , Eppa Rizzuto , Phil Robertson , Dave Roe , Preacher Rolfe , Red Rommel , Eddie Root , Charlie Rosen, Al Roush , Edd Rucker , Nap Rudolph , Dick Ruel , Muddy Ryan , Jimmy Sain , Johnny Sanguillen , Manny Sauer , Hank Schacht , Al Schaefer , Germany Schalk , Ray Schang , Wally Schoendienst , Red Schreckengost , Ossie Schulte , Frank Scott , Everett Scott , Jack Seaver , Tom Selkirk , George Severeid , Hank Sewell , Joe Sewell , Luke Sewell , Rip Seymour , Cy Shantz, Bobby Sheckard , Jimmy Sherdel , Bill Shocker , Urban Short , Chris Siebert , Sonny Sievers , Roy Simmons, Curt Sisti , Sibby Smith , Earl Smith , Hilton Smith , Sherry Sparks , Tully Stahl , Jake Stanky , Eddie Stanley , Mickey Staub , Rusty Steinfeldt , Harry Stephens , Vern Stephenson , Riggs Stottlemyre , Mel Street , Gabby Suhr , Gus Sukeforth , Clyde Sweeney , Bill Tannehill , Jesse Taylor , Ben Tebbetts , Birdie Tenney , Fred Thevenow , Tommy Thomas , Ira Thomson , Bobby Tiant, Luis Tiernan , Mike Tinker , Joe Tobin , Jim Toney , Fred Torgeson, Earl Torre, Joe Travis, Cecil Trouppe , Quincy Trout , Dizzy Trucks , Virgil Turner , Terry Uhle , George Valo , Elmer Van Haltren , George Vander Meer , Johnny Veach , Bobby Vernon , Mickey Walberg , Rube Walker , Harry Walters , Bucky Wambsganss , Bill Waner , Lloyd Warfield , Frank Warneke , Lon Welch , Mickey Werber , Billy Wertz, Vic West , Sam Westrum , Wes White , Sol White , Will Whitehill , Earl Williams , Cy Williams , Ken Williamson , Ned Willis , Vic Wills, Maury Wilson , Hack Wilson , Jim Wilson , Jimmie Witt , Whitey Wood , Joe Wood , Wilbur Wright , Glenn Wyatt , Whit Wynn , Jimmy Yerkes , Steve York , Rudy Young , Pep Youngs , Ross Zachary , Tom Zimmer , Chief
Code:Abe , Iso Ashford, Emmet Autry, Gene Bancroft , Frank Barlick, Al Berger , Sy Brickhouse , Jack Buck , Jack Bulkely , Morgan Busch , Augie Cambria , Joe Campbell , Jim Canel, Buck Caray, Harry Carrigan, Bill Caylor , O. P. Chandler, Happy Chylak , Nestor Conlan , Jocko Cooper , Andy Cummings , Candy Dark , Alvin Dinneen , Bill Doubleday , Abner Dreyfuss , Barney Dyer , Eddie Dykes , Jimmy Elias , Al Munro Evans, Billy Feller, Sherm Fergsuon, Bob Fetzer, John Foster , John B. Fowler, Bud Frick, Ford Fullerton , Hugh Giles , Warren Gleason , Kid Gonzalez , Mike Gowdy , Curt Greenlee, Gus Grimm, Charlie Haak , Howie Haney , Fred Harridge, Willie Harris , Bucky Harris, Vic Harwell, Ernie Heydler, John Hillerich , John Hodges, Gil Hodges, Russ Houk , Ralph Howsam, Bob Hubbard , Cal Hutchinson , Fred Jennings , Hughie Krichell, Paul Lanigan, Ernest Lardner , Ring Leavitt, Jr. , Charles W. Lopez, Al Luque , Dolf MacPhail, Lee Manley , Effa McCarthy , Tommy McGowan, Bill Mendez , Jose Mills , A. G. Mizuhara, Shigeru Moran , Pat Murnane, Tim Murtaugh, Danny Mutrie , Jim Navin , Frank Nelson , Lindsey Norworth, Jack O'Day, Hank O'Doul, Lefty O'Neill, Buck O'Neill, Steve Osborn , Frank Pasquel, Jorge Patkin, Max Pesky , Johnny Pompez , Alex Pulliam, Harry Ramirez, Felo Reese , Jimmie Rice, Grantland Richards, Paul Ritter , Lawrence Rizzuto , Phil Robinson , Wilbert Schoendienst, Red Sewell , Luke Sheppard, Bob Smith, Red Stallings , George Street, Gabby Thayer , Ernest Tsuruoka , Kazuto Tyson, Ty van der Ahe, Chris Warfield , Frank Wilson , Horace Wrigley, Phil Yawkey, Tom
Last edited by jalbright; 01-08-2011 at 12:00 PM.
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Researcher/advocate/mod
My ballot
Players
1. Tom Seaver
2. Steve Carlton
3. Alejandro Oms
4. Dobie Moore
5. Jose Mendez
6. Luis Tiant
7. Bob Lemon
8. Hughie Jennings
9. Hilton Smith
10. Roger Bresnahan
11. Joe Torre
12. Jimmy Wynn
Contributors
1. Phil Rizzuto
2. Kazuto Tsuruoka
3. Al Lopez
4. Vic Harris
5.Iso Abe
Tom Seaver and Steve Carlton take the two top spots, and Jimmy Wynn takes the #12 slot. On the contributor side, I added Iso Abe.
Last edited by jalbright; 01-08-2011 at 12:03 PM.
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Registered User
01. Tom Seaver
02. Steve Carlton
03. Wally Berger
04. Burleigh Grimes
05. Eppa Rixey
06. Hilton Smith
07. Alejandro Oms
08. Jose Mendez
09. Luis Tiant
10. Jake Beckley
11. Dobie Moore
12. Bob Lemon
01. Ford Frick
02. Phil Rizzuto
03. Al Lopez
04. Vic Harris
05. Kazuto Tsuruoka
Registered User
We just elected Sol White so the Contributors table at #4 needs correction.
Indeed, the players table needs parallel correction.
Now (after correction) the first four holdover Players are from the Negro Leagues.
--if you prefer reverse alphabetical order, as Wendt does but Albright does not.
Jose Mendez played primarily before the Leagues were established beginning with the first NNL in 1920. Dobie Moore played importantly and Alejandro Oms briefly before that time. Hilton Smith played importantly outside the Leagues but only including a couple years, at most, when no "Negro major league" was in operation.
Registered User
I do not anticipate repeating my last-minute vote for Tim Murnane so I am looking to add two Contributors. (I have been Murnane's only supporter, off and on, while all the others on my ballot now have support elsewhere.)
Seeing Jack Buck on the list reminds me that I am always looking for comparative judgments of the so-called broadcasters. I do not have the interest to read much on that subject, certainly not to study, so I am hoping for remarks posted in this forum. --or the history forum, where we now have Bill Burgess' "Meet the Sportswriters".
Vin Scully, Jack Brickhouse, Ernie Harwell, Harry Caray, Jack Buck: it's common to read suggestions and even explicit claims that so and so was a great one. Often it's my impression that that is written by someone who listened to so and so, perhaps for many seasons, but has not studied the subject.
With our current group of voters it seems likely that we will elect none but Red Barber and Mel Allen, and someone such as Phil Rizzuto whose broadcast work is secondary. That's fine with me.
Researcher/advocate/mod
Correction made. Haste once again has made waste.Originally Posted by Paul Wendt
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Registered User
1. Tom Seaver
2. Steve Carlton
3. Hughie Jennings
4. Charlie Keller
5. Jose Mendez
6. Alejandro Oms
7. Cal McVey
8. Joe Kelley
9. Willard Brown
10. Jimmy Wynn
11. Leroy Matlock
12. Lip Pike
Bleed the Freak
1 Tom Seaver
2 Steve Carlton
3 Hughie Jennings
4 Charlie Keller
5 Joe Kelley
6 Masaaki Koyama
7 Dick Lundy
8 Jimmy Sheckard
9 Phil Rizzuto
10 Alejandro Oms
11 Jimmy Wynn
12 Johnny Pesky
I am insufficiently familiar with the contributor side of baseball to make a well informed ballot.
Can I find a thread with detailed backgrounds of contributors to use as a guideline?
If time permits, I plan to make comments on the 12 selections.
I am impressed with the body of work of the Best of Baseball Hall.
I do not see any HUGE oversights (Although my system likes shortstops and war credit candidates more), and I only spot two clear mistakes in my system (Nellie Fox and Pie Traynor) elected to the Best of Baseball- while the Baseball Think Factory Hall of Merit has elected four (Pete Browning, Rollie Fingers, Nellie Fox, and Edd Roush).
Last edited by Jar of Flies; 01-09-2011 at 10:30 AM.
a posse ad esse
Give us time. We haven't caught up to the Hall of Merit yet.
Welcome aboard -- I'll get started on contributors with manager Al Lopez.
Alfonso Ramon Lopez started as a MLB catcher who played for four teams from 1928-1947, and incidentally held the Major League record for games caught (1918) for a long time after his retirement. But that's not why we're voting for him.
Al managed the Cleveland Indians (1951-1956) and Chicago White Sox (1957-1965, 1968-1969). He was elected as a manager to the National Baseball Hall of Fame in 1977. Notes on his tenure:
- His career record was 1410-1004. His 410 career managerial wins are 23rd all time, and 12th at the time of his retirement. Every eligible manager with more wins than Lopez is in Cooperstown save one (Gene Mauch).
- His .584 win% is 8th all-time (McCarthy, Mutrie, Comiskey, Selee, Southworth, Chance, McGraw).
- My favorite managerial stat is "games above .500", where he also ranks 8th (McGraw, McCarthy, Cox, Alston, Selee, Clarke, Weaver).
- Lopez managed only 64 games part-time in 1968-1969. In his 15 full seasons as a manager, Lopez's teams not once finished below .500 (worst record: 1962 White Sox, 85-77, .525).
- In 10 of those 15 seasons Lopez's team won at least 90 games. In 12 of those 15 seasons Lopez's team finished 1st or 2nd in the American League.
- Lopez managed both teams (Indians 1954, White Sox 1959) once to the American League Pennant. These were the only two years from 1949-1964 that the New York Yankees did not reach the World Series.
If we were to play the "if" game; if it weren't for the Yankee dynasty, Lopez's overachieving teams would have dominated the AL and perhaps taken a World Series or three. As it is, he'll have to settle for being the definitive "bride's maid" manager in history, as well as one of the most influential on-field influences for Latin American baseball.
Last edited by J W; 01-09-2011 at 02:11 PM.
September 16, 2012: The Losing Streak Ends
Registered User
Players:
1. Tom Seaver
2. Steve Carlton
3. Dobie Moore
4. Jimmy Wynn
5. Bob Elliott
6. Burleigh Grimes
7. Roger Bresnahan
8. Hilton Smith
9. Bob Lemon
10. Jimmy Sheckard
11. Joe Torre
12. Sal Bando
Contributors:
1. Harry Caray
2. Phil Rizzuto
3. Ford Frick
4. Al Lopez
5. Kazuto Tsuruoka
Seaver and Carlton debut at #1 and #2. Bando edges out Jennings for #12. Tsuruoka debuts at #5 to replace the elected S. White on the contributor's side.
In my consideration set are Jake Beckley, Chief Bender, Wally Berger, Max Bishop, Lou Brock, Perucho Cepeda, Cupid Childs, Hugh Duffy, Bill Freehan, Dummy Hoy, Hughie Jennings, Charley Jones, Fielder Jones, Joe Kelley, Rabbit Maranville, Cal McVey, Jose Mendez, Thurman Munson, Graig Nettles, Don Newcombe, Tony Perez, Lip Pike, Sam Rice, Pete Rose, Eppa Rixey, Edd Roush, Wally Schang, Joe Sewell, Urban Shocker, Rusty Staub, Luis Tiant Jr., George Van Haltren. Some may make my ballot, some may not depending on who we are looking at in terms of newcomers.
1. Tom Seaver
2. Steve Carlton
3. Lou Brock
4. Joe Torre
5. Edd Roush
6. Frank Howard
7. Dobie Moore
8. Orlando Cepeda
9. Bill Freehan
10. Cupid Childs
11. Hilton Smith
12. Alejandro Oms
Tony Perez probably is first in line
1. O.P. Caylor
2. Red Smith
3. Billy Evans
4. Tommy McCarthy
5. Bob Ferguson
a posse ad esse
Players
1. Tom Seaver
2. Steve Carlton
3. Willard Brown
4. Joe Torre
5. Addie Joss
6. Roger Bresnahan
7. Bob Lemon
8. Eppa Rixey
9. Alejandro Oms
10. Jose Mendez
11. Edd Roush
12. Joe Sewell
Nettles nestles nicely into the position players queue (7th), with Bando not far behind him (11th).
Contributors
1. Al Lopez
2. Paul Krichell
3. Hughie Jennings
4. Danny Murtaugh
5. Kazuto Tsuruoka
No change, though Sy Berger is on the short list of imminent names.
September 16, 2012: The Losing Streak Ends
southpaw
1. Steve Carlton
2. Tom Seaver
3. Jose Mendez
4. Hilton Smith
5. Bob Lemon
6. Alejandro Oms
7. Dizzy Dean
8. Burleigh Grimes
9. Luis Tiant
10. Edd Roush
11. Lou Brock
12. Addie Joss
Contributors:
1. Vic Harris
2. Kazuto Tsuruoka
3. Gus Greenlee
4. Ford Frick
5. Al Lopez
"The kid doesn't chew tobacco, smoke, drink, curse or chase broads. I don't see how he can possibly make it." - Richie Ashburn
carpe baseball
Players
1. Tom Seaver
2. Steve Carlton
3. Dobie Moore
4. Alejandro Oms
5. Bob Lemon
6. Luis Tiant
7. Jose Mendez
8. Joe Torre
9. Jimmy Wynn
10. Burleigh Grimes
11. Hilton Smith
12. Edd Roush
Contributors
1. Al Lopez
2. Kazuto Tsuruoka
3. Gus Greenlee
4. O.P. Caylor
5. Tim Murnane
"When you have no basis for an argument, abuse the plaintiff." -- Cicero
Registered User
1 Tom Seaver
2 Steve Carlton
3 Burleigh Grimes
4 Eppa Rixey
5 Bob Lemon
6 Addie Joss
7 Luis Tiant
8 Ed Roush
9 Lou Brock
10 Roger Bresnahan
11 Hughie Jennings
12 Orlando Cepeda
2004 & 2007
Players:
1. Tom Seaver
2. Steve Carlton
3. Hilton Smith
4. Addie Joss
5. Dobie Moore
6. Alejandro Oms
7. Wally Berger
8. Jose Mendez
9. Luis Tiant
10. Roger Bresnahan
11. Bob Lemon
12. Willard Brown
Contributors:
1. Ford Frick
2. Gus Greenlee
3. Phil Rizzuto
4. Kazuto Tsuruoka
5. Al Lopez
OSHA-certified Moderator
1. Tom Seaver
2. Steve Carlton
3. Burleigh Grimes
4. Edd Roush
5. Bob Lemon
6. Addie Joss
7. Hilton Smith
8. Luis Aparicio
9. Dobie Moore
10. Lefty Gomez
11. Alejandro Oms
12. Jose Mendez
Contributors
1. Billy Evans
2. Ford Frick
3. Gus Greenlee
4. Happy Chandler
5. Al Lopez
Tom Tresh George Kell Mark Fidrych Bob Feller
Ernie Harwell Soupy Sales Alex Chilton Sparky Anderson
Joe Nuxhall Gary Carter MCA Emanuel Steward
Sonny Elliot Dave Brubeck Earl Weaver Stan Musial
Jonathan Winters Neil Armstrong Roger Ebert Anthony Zahler
Ray Manzarek
Researcher/advocate/mod
Your ballot will still count with this inclusion of a guy elected in the last election. However, everyone below him would move up and the #12 spot would be empty. I'd prefer if you fixed this oversight, however. I'll also send you a PM on this topic.
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Researcher/advocate/mod
We have passed the quorum of 10 player ballots and are one shy of reaching the quorum on the contributor side.
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Registered User
Players:
1. Tom Seaver
2. Steve Carlton
3. Addie Joss
4. Lou Brock
5. Hilton Smith
6. Jake Beckley
7. Jose Mendez
8. Edd Roush
9. Roger Bresnahan
10. Burleigh Grimes
11. Sam Rice
12. Bob Lemon
Contributors:
1. Happy Chandler
2. Harry Caray
3. Al Lopez
4. Warren Giles
5. Phil Rizzuto
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