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Thread: BBF Tigers Hall of Fame - Round One

  1. #1

    BBF Tigers Hall of Fame - Round One

    NOTE: The Twins First Round Election is still open and will close on Tuesday, February 8, 2011, at 2:00 p.m.

    This election will close on Sunday, February 13, 2011, at 12:00 a.m.

    PLEASE READ THE FORMAT AND RULES SECTION BEFORE VOTING. THANK YOU.

    FORMAT AND RULES

    Purpose: The purpose of this project is to create a Hall of Fame for each franchise whereby each franchise will honor those individuals whose contributions and accomplishments are most notable, significant, and enduring to that franchise's history. This project is not about simply honoring those with the best statistics with each franchise.

    Standards: Each franchise has its own unique history and context, and thus contributions and accomplishments that may stand out remarkably within one franchise's history, may not be so remarkable in another franchise's history. Standards from franchise to franchise will inherently vary, and thus there should be no impetus to create equal standards among the franchises or to aspire to the standards of the National Baseball Hall of Fame. Consequently, subjectivity within the context of the franchise in question will play an inevitable role when considering an individual's contributions and accomplishments with respect to that franchise. In sum, a franchise's Hall of Fame should be unaffected by the standards and contexts of other franchises as well as the National Baseball Hall of Fame, and should be entirely a product of its own history.

    Election Format: Elections will be conducted one franchise at a time starting in chronological order with the oldest continuously and currently operational franchise. Each election will last approximately seven days.
    - Ballot Size: Voters can select up to 15 players and 5 contributors per election. Ballots that exceed the maximum limits at the close of an election will not be counted. There is no minimum ballot size.
    - Ballot Editing: To account for ongoing discussion, voters may edit their ballots as often as necessary through the end of an election.
    - Election Percentage: Any individual that is listed on at least 75% of either the player or contributor submitted ballots will be elected to that team's Hall of Fame. In instances where an individual receive votes as both a player and a contributor, that individual will be elected if listed on at least 75% of ballots in either category or if the individual's combined vote total is at least 75% of the category with the greatest number of ballots submitted.
    - Subsequent Rounds: After an election has been performed for each franchise, a second round of elections will commence, again proceeding in chronological order. A third round of elections (and perhaps beyond) may also be held depending on interest.

    Eligibility:
    - Players: Players may be considered by any currently operational franchise for which they appeared and are eligible either immediately upon officially retiring or after having not appeared at any level of professional baseball for an entire season for reasons not due to injury.
    - Contributors: Individuals that contributed in other capacities to a franchise may be considered, including managers, coaches, executives, owners, and broadcasters, but not fictional characters such as mascots. Contributors that are still active may only be elected by their current employing franchise, and cannot be considered by prior employing franchises until no longer active (this does not apply to individuals who are employed by a franchise only in nominal and/or non-integral ways, such as in scouting, consulting, or public relations capacities).
    - Multiple Capacities: The totality of contributions and accomplishments with respect to a franchise are to be considered, and thus an individual can only be elected once by a franchise. For purposes of ballot size limits, an individual should be designated either a player or contributor based on what the voter perceives to be the individual's greater role with the franchise. An individual should not be listed as either a player or contributor merely to facilitate ballot space for the other category.
    - Relocations/Renaming: Franchises that have relocated and/or been renamed, may still consider and elect individuals that were with the franchise prior to the relocation/renaming.
    - Multiple Franchises: An individual may be considered and elected by multiple franchises.


    DETROIT TIGERS
    This election will end on Sunday, February 13, 2011, at 12:00 a.m.

    Franchise History
    - Founded: 1901 (AL for entire existence)
    - Former Locations/Names:

    Titles
    - World Series Championships: 4 (1935, 1945, 1968, 1984)
    - Pennants: 10 (1907, 1908, 1909, 1934, 1935, 1940, 1945, 1968, 1984, 2006)
    - Division Titles: 3 (1972, 1984, 1987)
    - Wild Card Berths: 1 (2006)

    Helpful Links
    The following links are all courtesy of baseball-reference.com, baseball-almanac.com, and wikipedia.com, and may assist voters in determining an individual's impact on this franchise:
    - Franchise Almanac
    - All Batters
    - All Pitchers
    - Batting Leaders
    - Pitching Leaders
    - Most Common Positional Starters
    - Most Common Pitching Staff Alignments
    - Managers
    - Notable Owners and Executives
    - Notable Broadcasters

    Award Recipients
    - MVP Recipients (9): Willie Hernandez (1984), Denny McLain (1968), Hal Newhouser (1945), Hal Newhouser (1944), Hank Greenberg (1940), Charlie Gehringer (1937), Hank Greenberg (1935), Mickey Cochrane (1934), Ty Cobb (1911)

    - Cy Young Recipients (3): Willie Hernandez (1984), Denny McLain (1969), Denny McLain (1968)

    - RoY Recipients (7): Justin Verlander (2006), Lou Whitaker (1978), Mark Fidrych (1976), Harvey Kuenn (1953)

    - Batting Triple Crown (1): Ty Cobb (1909)

    - Pitching Triple Crown (1): Hal Newhouser (1945)

    Multiple All Star Selections (no adjustment for double selections for 1959-1962)
    Code:
    Rank 	Player			Selections
    1	Al Kaline		18
    2	Bill Freehan		11
    3	Harvey Kuenn		8
    t4	Jim Bunning		7
    t4	Hal Newhouser		7
    t6	Tommy Bridges		6
    t6	Charlie Gehringer	6
    t6	Lance Parrish		6
    t6	Alan Trammell		6
    t10	Norm Cash		5
    t10	Hank Greenberg		5
    t10	George Kell		5
    t10	Lou Whitaker		5
    t10	Rudy York		5
    t15	Rocky Colavito		4
    t15	Travis Fryman		4
    t15	Willie Horton		4
    t15	Jack Morris		4
    t15	Ivan Rodriguez*		4
    t20	Cecil Fielder		3
    t20	Carlos Guillen*		3
    t20	Willie Hernandez	3
    t20	Frank Lary		3
    t20	Mickey Lolich		3
    t20	Dick McAuliffe		3
    t20	Denny McLain		3
    t20	Justin Verlander*	3
    t20	Vic Wertz		3
    t29	Hank Aguirre		2
    t29	Al Benton		2
    t29	Ray Boone		2
    t29	Mickey Cochrane		2
    t29	Hoot Evers		2
    t29	Mark Fidrych		2
    t29	Charlie Maxwell		2
    t29	Paul Mullin		2
    t29	Bobo Newsom		2
    t29	Magglio Ordonez*	2
    t29	Schoolboy Rowe		2
    t29	Birdie Tebbetts		2
    t29	Jason Thompson		2
    t29	Dizzy Trout		2
    	
    * Player is currently active
    Notable Managers (with at least 300 games managed with this franchise or at least one pennant win)
    Code:
    Manager			Games		Win %	WS Titles	Pennants	Div Titles	Wild Cards
    Sparky Anderson		2580		.516	1		1		2
    Bill Armour		305		.497
    Del Baker		778		.540
    Buddy Bell		461		.399
    Ty Cobb			933		.519
    Mickey Cochrane		600		.582	1		2
    Chuck Dressen		411		.539
    Phil Garner		330		.439
    Bucky Harris		1078		.481
    Ralph Houk		806		.450
    Fred Hutchinson		396		.397
    Hughie Jennings		2127		.538			3
    Jim Leyland		811		.523			1				1
    Billy Martin		452		.549					1
    George Moriarty		310		.489
    Steve O’Neill		933		.551	1		1
    Red Rolfe		539		.521
    Bob Scheffing		384		.548
    Mayo Smith		651		.560	1		1
    Alan Trammell		486		.383
    
    * Current manager
    Last edited by DoubleX; 02-05-2011 at 08:31 PM.

  2. #2
    Players
    Tommy Bridges
    Norm Cash
    Ty Cobb
    Sam Crawford
    Bill Freehan
    Charlie Gehringer
    Hank Greenberg
    Harry Heilmann
    Al Kaline
    Mickey Lolich
    Jack Morris
    Hal Newhouser
    Alan Trammell
    Bobby Veach
    Lou Whitaker

    Several difficult cuts here as I wish I had room this time around for at least John Hiller, Dizzy Trout, and Rudy York. After that, a strong cue including Jim Bunning, Donie Bush, Mickey Cochrane, Rocky Colavito, Hooks Dauss, Bill Donovan, Darrell Evans, Cecil Fielder, Travis Fryman, Kirk Gibson, Mike Henneman, Willie Hernandez, Willie Horton, Todd Jones, Harvey Kuenn, Frank Lary, Dick McAuliffe, Denny McLain, George Mullin, Lance Parrish, Virgil Trucks, Vic Wertz, Earl Whitehill

    Contributors
    Sparky Anderson
    Jim Campbell
    Ernie Harwell
    Hughie Jennings
    George Kell - Combined contributions as a player and broadcaster

    Was very close on owners Frank Navin and Walter Briggs, Sr.
    Last edited by DoubleX; 02-06-2011 at 06:10 AM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Moot Point
    Posts
    5,172
    Players
    Tommy Bridges
    Norm Cash
    Ty Cobb
    Sam Crawford
    Bill Freehan
    Charlie Gehringer
    Hank Greenberg
    Harry Heilmann
    Al Kaline
    Mickey Lolich
    Hal Newhouser
    Alan Trammell
    Dizzy Trout
    Bobby Veach
    Lou Whitaker
    Last edited by Nerdlinger; 02-06-2011 at 07:39 AM.
    *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! *** Also: Buck the Fraves!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    southeastern PA
    Posts
    14,920
    Blog Entries
    34
    My player ballot:
    Tommy Bridges
    Norm Cash
    Ty Cobb
    Sam Crawford
    Bill Freehan
    Charlie Gehringer
    Hank Greenberg
    Harry Heilmann
    Al Kaline
    Mickey Lolich
    Hal Newhouser
    Alan Trammell
    Dizzy Trout
    Bobby Veach
    Lou Whitaker

    My contributor ballot:
    Sparky Anderson
    Jim Campbell
    Mickey Cochrane
    Ernie Harwell
    Hughie Jennings

    current players who can't make my queue yet, but will:
    Carlos Guillen
    Justin Verlander

    Players in my queue (in approximate order):
    Donie Bush
    Dick McAuliffe
    Jack Morris
    Frank Lary
    Lance Parrish
    Jim Bunning
    Tony Phillips
    Chet Lemon
    Bill Donovan
    John Hiller
    Billy Rogell
    Virgil Trucks
    Travis Fryman
    Rudy York
    Kirk Gibson
    Denny McLain
    Willie Horton
    George Mullin
    Fred Hutchinson
    Schoolboy Rowe
    George Kell
    Hooks Dauss
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  5. #5
    Player ballot (15)
    Tommy Bridges
    Norm Cash
    Ty Cobb
    Sam Crawford
    Bill Freehan
    Charlie Gehringer
    Hank Greenberg
    Harry Heilmann
    Al Kaline
    Mickey Lolich
    Hal Newhouser
    Alan Trammell
    Dizzy Trout
    Bobby Veach
    Lou Whitaker

    Contributor ballot (5)
    Sparky Anderson
    Jim Campbell
    Mickey Cochrane
    Ernie Harwell
    Hughie Jennings

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Baton Rouge, LA
    Posts
    2,077
    Players (15)
    Tommy Bridges
    Ty Cobb
    Sam Crawford
    Bill Freehan
    Charlie Gehringer
    Hank Greenberg
    Harry Heilmann
    Al Kaline
    George Kell
    Mickey Lolich
    Jack Morris
    New Newhouser
    Lance Parrish
    Alan Trammell
    Lou Whitaker

    Contributors (5)
    Sparky Anderson
    Jim Campbell
    Mickey Cochrane
    Ernie Harwell
    Hughie Jennings
    Last edited by Ace Venom; 02-06-2011 at 07:32 AM.
    RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Williamsport PA
    Posts
    3,116
    Detroit Tigers... These guys certainly do span quite a few "eras".

    Hal Newhouser
    Jack Morris
    John Hiller
    Bill Freehan
    Lance Parrish
    Hank Greenberg
    Norm Cash
    Charlie Gehringer
    Lou Whitaker
    Alan Trammell
    Bobby Veach
    Ty Cobb
    Al Kaline
    Sam Crawford
    Harry Heilmann

    ------------

    Hughie Jennings
    Sparky Anderson
    Ernie Harwell
    George Kell
    Mickey Cochrane
    Your Second Base Coach
    If Rfield was a better stat, and actually measured fielding ability, we would not need Rpos.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5hCIvMule0

  8. #8
    Players:

    Tommy Bridges
    Norm Cash
    Ty Cobb
    Sam Crawford
    Bill Freehan
    Charlie Gehringer
    Hank Greeberg
    Harry Heilman
    Al Kaline
    Mickey Lolich
    Dick McAuliffe
    Hal Newhouser
    Lance Parrish
    Alan Trammell
    Lou Whitaker

    Contributors:

    Sparky Anderson
    Jim Campbell
    Mickey Cochrane
    Ernie Harwell
    Hughie Jennings

    In my player queue:

    Lu Blue
    Jim Bunning
    Donie Bush
    Rocky Colavito
    Hooks Dauss
    Bill Donovan
    Pete Fox
    Kirk Gibson
    Harvey Kuenn
    Frank Lary
    Chet Lemon
    Heinie Manush
    Charlie Maxwell
    Jack Morris
    Mickey Tettleton
    Virgil Trucks
    Bobby Veach
    Gee Walker
    Rudy York

    Cochrane's stay with the Tigers was brief, but under him, he won the league MVP as a player, and the pennant as manager. The Tigers had some very successful years under him as manager, so he gets the nod as a contributor rather than as a player.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    3,321
    Players
    Tommy Bridges
    Donie Bush
    Norm Cash
    Ty Cobb
    Sam Crawford
    Bill Freehan
    Charlie Gehringer
    Hank Greenberg
    Harry Heilmann
    Al Kaline
    Mickey Lolich
    Hal Newhouser
    Alan Trammell
    Bobby Veach
    Lou Whitaker

    Contributors
    Sparky Anderson
    Jim Campbell
    Mickey Cochrane
    Ernie Harwell
    Hughie Jennings

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Braves Country
    Posts
    807
    Players:
    Ty Cobb
    Al Kaline
    Sam Crawford
    Charlie Gehringer
    Lou Whitaker
    Alan Trammell
    Hank Greenberg
    Norm Cash
    Bill Freehan
    Harry Heilmann
    Hal Newhouser
    Mickey Lolich
    Tommy Bridges
    Dizzy Trout
    George Mullin
    Contributers
    Sparky Anderson
    Hughie Jennings
    Jim Campbell
    George Kell
    Ernie Harwell
    Chop! Chop! Chop!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Ravena NY
    Posts
    1,075
    Players
    Tommy Bridges
    Norm Cash
    Ty Cobb
    Sam Crawford
    Bill Freehan
    Charlie Gehringer
    Hank Greenberg
    Harry Heilmann
    Al Kaline
    Mickey Lolich
    Jack Morris
    George Mullin
    Hal Newhouser
    Alan Trammell
    Lou Whitkaer

    Contributors
    Sparky Anderson
    Jim Campbell
    Mickey Cochrane
    Ernie Harwell
    Hughie Jennings
    Lets Go Yankees, Valley Cats, Dutchmen, UT Spartans and ECU Pirates.

  12. #12
    Tommy Bridges
    Norm Cash
    Ty Cobb
    Sam Crawford
    Bill Freehan
    Charley Gehringer
    Hank Greenberg
    Harry Heilmann
    Al Kaline
    Mickey Lolich
    Hal Newhouser
    Alan Trammell
    Dizzy Trout
    Lou Whitaker
    Bobby Veach

    Contributors

    Sparky Anderson
    Jim Campbell
    Hughie Jennings
    Ernie Harwell

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    mariners country
    Posts
    23,570
    Tommy Bridges
    Ty Cobb
    Sam Crawford
    Bill Freehan
    Charlie Gehringer
    Hank Greenberg
    Harry Heilmann
    Willie Horton
    Al Kaline
    Mickey Lolich
    Jack Morris
    New Newhouser
    Lance Parrish
    Alan Trammell
    Lou Whitaker

    Contributors (5)
    Jim Campbell
    Mickey Cochrane
    Ernie Harwell
    Hughie Jennings
    George Kell

  14. #14
    This is the oldest ballclub in the league, original to the reorganization of the Western League, November 1893 in Detroit. Yet it must have been the least weighty continuing member during the time that the league achieved majority. There was a lot of turnover in ownership and management at least from 1899 to 1907 when Hugh Jennings took the bench. (George Stallings, Frank Dwyer, and Ed Barrow preceded him, among others.)

    IIRC there were deep pockets for a while, with owner Sam Angus from 1902, but the polar opposite was the case during 1900 and 1901. At that time the rival American Association had pretty good financial backing in Detroit (Angus?) but the Wolverines/Tigers did not. Founding owner Vanderbeck put the club on the market anticipating his divorce settlement, later changed his mind and fought for control in the newspapers if not in the courtroom. New owners Jimmy Burns and George Stallings were small-time sporting entrepreneurs, focusing on indoor events iirc. They did acquire and develop a ballpark where the Tigers could profitably play Sunday games, practically in Detroit.

    Contributors
    Frank Navin
    Hugh Jennings
    Ty Tyson
    Ernie Harwell
    Sparky Anderson
    Last edited by Paul Wendt; 02-09-2011 at 01:34 PM.

  15. #15
    Players
    Sam Crawford
    Ty Cobb
    Donie Bush
    Bobby Veach
    Harry Heilmann
    Charlie Gehringer
    Tommy Bridges
    Hank Greenberg
    Hal Newhouser
    Al Kaline
    Norm Cash
    Dick McAuliffe
    Bill Freehan
    Alan Trammell
    Lou Whitaker
    Last edited by Paul Wendt; 02-09-2011 at 01:45 PM.

  16. #16
    I'm not sure whether the Western League existed in 1893, but bb-ref has it operating in 1894, with Detroit and Milwaukee the only cities that survived into the twentieth century, and of course Milwaukee was gone by 1903, so Detroit is comfortably the oldest city in the AL.

    George Stallings may have had other irons in the fire, but he is the (later) famous Miracle Braves manager. He had a successful tenure as manager in Detroit, or rather two tenures sandwiched around a miserable failure running in Philadelphia, where he alienated his players and made widely criticized trades. He was a very intense guy, and with a manager like that, perhaps it's a safe generalization that when he is good, he is very, very good and when he is bad he is horrid.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Beady View Post
    I'm not sure whether the Western League existed in 1893, but bb-ref has it operating in 1894, with Detroit and Milwaukee the only cities that survived into the twentieth century, and of course Milwaukee was gone by 1903, so Detroit is comfortably the oldest city in the AL.
    Relying on Wikipedia, I revised that to say
    "original to the reorganization of the Western League, November 1893 in Detroit."

  18. #18
    Sorry, I think you made the change before I posted and I just overlooked "November."

    At any rate, you are right, Detroit's club has the longest continuous history of any in the American League.

  19. #19
    As Paul's post points out, the actual order here is something of an ambiguous issue. I said earlier, for ease and convenience, I've just gone by the order when you sort on baseball-reference.com, which traces a franchise back to its first year in a Major League, but likely doesn't have the order exactly right for teams clustered together, such as all original 8 AL clubs.

    In any event, I think we can all agree, the order isn't particularly germane to this project as the results of one franchise have no bearing on the others. Nevertheless, to keep things interesting, I think next time through, I will do the order in terms of success based on World Series wins, than Pennant wins, than overall win percentage. So obviously the Yankees would go first, followed by the Cardinals, the A's, and Red Sox, and so forth. This will obviously mean a longer wait again for the expansion team, but it will mix things up. For the third time through, perhaps I'll go in geographic order from east to west.

  20. #20
    It isn't criticism of this project. I posted it here because it is mainly about the Detroit ballclub. The content is relevant, too, although for this club I don't believe there is a good first or second round Team Hall of Fame candidate among those who were founders in some sense.


    Speaking of Dick McAuliffe, he is the keynote guest at the next meeting of the Connecticut/Smoky Joe Wood chapter of SABR, Feb 26. Meetings are open to nonmembers.
    : SABR Calendar
    Perhaps of general interest here: "Other speakers include Bill Lamb on the legal proceedings surrounding the Black Sox scandal; Dennis Corcoran on the history of the Hall of Fame induction ceremonies ..."

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleX View Post
    In any event, I think we can all agree, the order isn't particularly germane to this project as the results of one franchise have no bearing on the others. Nevertheless, to keep things interesting, I think next time through, I will do the order in terms of success based on World Series wins, than Pennant wins, than overall win percentage...
    It certainly isn't that important, but I had actually been thinking it would be fun to go just the other way, starting with the least successful franchises and working up to the Yankees...

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Wendt View Post
    It isn't criticism of this project. I posted it here because it is mainly about the Detroit ballclub. The content is relevant, too, although for this club I don't believe there is a good first or second round Team Hall of Fame candidate among those who were founders in some sense.
    No criticism was taken.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beady View Post
    It certainly isn't that important, but I had actually been thinking it would be fun to go just the other way, starting with the least successful franchises and working up to the Yankees...
    We could go that way too, my only concern is that we would have to wait a really long time to get back to many franchise and we'd be doing second rounds for teams that we would have recently done a first round for. For instance, the Cardinals were the third franchise we did, and we wouldn't get to them again until next to last if we started with the least successful. I think people would be more eager to get back to the more storied franchises, especially since some of the more recent and less successful franchises, may not really have many viable candidates after the first round.

  23. #23
    Players:
    Tommy Bridges
    Ty Cobb
    Sam Crawford
    Bill Freehan
    Charlie Gehringer
    Hank Greenberg
    Harry Heilmann
    Al Kaline
    George Kell
    Mickey Lolich
    Jack Morris
    Hal Newhouser
    Alan Trammell
    Bobby Veach
    Lou Whitaker

    Contributors:
    Sparky Anderson
    Jim Campbell
    Mickey Cochrane
    Ernie Harwell
    Hughie Jennings


    Not a single vote for Denny McLain. The wages of sin...

    (now that I think about it a little, the wages of sin are actually a lot worse than not being a first-round choice for the Tigers' Hall of Fame)
    Last edited by Beady; 02-10-2011 at 05:14 PM. Reason: on second thought...

  24. #24
    It's notable that WAR gives McLain more credit for 1969 (7.1) than for 1968 (5.4).

  25. #25
    I apologize if I'm too late with this ballot...been busy with other projects this week.

    Players
    Tommy Bridges
    Norm Cash
    Ty Cobb
    Sam Crawford
    Bill Freehan
    Charlie Gehringer
    Hank Greenberg
    Harry Heilmann
    Al Kaline
    Mickey Lolich
    Jack Morris
    Hal Newhouser
    Alan Trammell
    Bobby Veach
    Lou Whitaker


    Contributors
    Sparky Anderson
    Jim Campbell
    Mickey Cochrane
    Ernie Harwell
    Hughie Jennings

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