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Thread: Player Per Team Draft: Roster Thread

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    8,497

    Player Per Team Draft: Roster Thread

    Columbus Conquerors
    Roster
    C- Mickey Cochrane (Athletics; LHB)
    C- Gabby Hartnett (Cubs; RHB)
    1B- Lou Gehrig (Yankees; LHB)
    1B- Albert Pujols (Cardinals; RF/LF; RHB)
    2B- Charlie Gehringer (Athletics; SS; LHB)
    2B- Bobby Grich (Orioles; SS; RHB)
    SS- George Davis (White Sox; 3B; CF/2B; SHB)
    3B- Buddy Bell (Rangers; RHB)
    3B- George Brett (Royals; 1B; LHB)
    LF- Joe Kelley (Defunct; CF/RF; RHB)
    LF- Willie Stargell (Pirates; 1B/RF; LHB)
    LF- Ted Williams (Red Sox; RF; LHB)
    CF- Ken Griffey Jr. (Reds; LF/RF; SHB)
    RF- Vladimir Guerrero (Expos; LF; RHB)
    RF- Tony Gwynn (Padres; CF/LF; LHB)
    RF- Manny Ramirez (Indians; LF; RHB)

    Batting Order
    1. Davis, ss
    2. Gehringer, 2b
    3. Williams, lf
    4. Pujols, 1b
    5. Gehrig, dh
    6. Griffey, cf
    7. Brett, 3b
    8. Guerrero, rf
    9. Cochrane, c

    Rotation
    SP- Tom Seaver (Mets; RHP)
    SP- Carl Hubbell (Giants; LHP)
    SP- Robin Roberts (Phillies; RHP)
    SP- Sandy Koufax (Dodgers; LHP)
    SP- Nolan Ryan (Astros; RHP)

    Bullpen
    CP- Johan Santana (Twins; LHP)
    RP- Troy Percival (Angels; RHP)
    RP- Phil Niekro (Braves; RHP)
    RP- Teddy Higuera (Brewers; LHP)
    Last edited by Brad Harris; 03-08-2011 at 02:34 PM.
    "The value of a stat is directly proportional to how good it makes Steve Garvey look." -- Nerdlinger

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    4,226
    Green Bay Blues

    1B Jeff Bagwell - Astros
    2B Rogers Hornsby (SS, 3B) - Cardinals
    SS Luke Appling - White Sox
    3B Wade Boggs - Red Sox
    CA Ivan Rodriguez - Rangers
    LF Mickey Mantle (RF, CF, 1B) - Yankees
    RF Hank Aaron (LF, CF, 1B) - Braves
    CF Ty Cobb (LF/RF) - Tigers
    DH Jim Thome (1, 3) - Indians

    Code:
    Lineup VS RHSP		BA	OB	SLG	OPS+
    1. Ty Cobb		.366	.433	.512	168	L
    2. Hornsby		.358	.434	.577	175	R
    3. Mantle		.298	.421	.557	172	S
    4. Bagwell		.297	.408	.540	149	R
    5. Jim Thome		.278	.404	.559	147	L
    6. H Aaron		.305	.374	.555	155	R
    7. Boggs		.328	.415	.443	130	L
    8. Luke Appling		.310	.399	.398	113	R
    9. I-Rod		.298	.334	.466	107	R
    Code:
    Lineup VS LHSP		BA	OB	SLG	OPS+
    1. Ty Cobb		.366	.433	.512	168	L
    2. Hornsby		.358	.434	.577	175	R
    3. Frank Robinson	.294	.389	.537	154	R
    4. Mantle		.298	.421	.557	172	S
    5. Bagwell		.297	.408	.540	149	R
    6. H Aaron		.305	.374	.555	155	R
    7. Boggs		.328	.415	.443	130	L
    8. Luke Appling		.310	.399	.398	113	R
    9. I-Rod		.298	.334	.466	107	R
    Code:
    Rotation		ERA+	WHIP	IP
    R Pete Alexander	136	1.121	5190	Cubs
    R Bert Blyleven		118	1.198	4970	Twins
    R Gaylord Perry		117	1.181	5350	Giants
    L Jerry Koosman		110	1.259	3839	Mets
    R Don Drysdale		121	1.148	3432	Dodgers
    Code:
    Bullpen			ERA+	WHIP	IP
    R Trevor Hoffman	141	1.058	1089	Padres
    R Kent Tekulve		132	1.250	1436	Pirates
    R Dennis Eckersley	116	1.161	3285	A's
    R Kevin Appier		121	1.294	2595	Royals
    L Dan Plesac		118	1.286	1072	Brewers
    L Chuck Finley		115	1.376	3197	Angels
    Code:
    Bench			BA	OB	SLG	OPS+
    R Ernie Lombardi	.306	.358	.460	126	CA	Reds
    R Frank Robinson	.294	.389	.537	154	LF/RF	Orioles
    L John McGraw		.334	.466	.410	135	SS, 3B	(Defunct)
    L Chase Utley		.293	.380	.514	129	2B	Phillies
    Notes: If Bagwell needs a day off, Thome moves to 1st and Robinson becomes DH. Appling's days off will be against RHSP, and McGraw will come in. Cobb's days off will be against lefties; Mantle moves to CF, Robinson moves to LF; McGraw comes in for Boggs and becomes my leadoff hitter. All other positional replacements are pretty straight forward.

    * * * * *

    The main argument for my team is pretty simple. Most of my pitching can match up against your pitching without too much of a problem. But my lineup beats every other lineup. Game 1, Alexander can match up well against anyone you put out there. Game two, the best rotations have an edge over Blyleven, but he can go toe-to-toe with many #2 starters. And even when Blyleven is clearly outmatched, my lineup can often carry my team. Games 3-5? My guys match up pretty well across the board, but once again my lineup still crushes yours. If you just add my team's BA/OB/SLG and divide by 9, my team would have almost exactly a .300/.400/.500 line. But then you realize that my best players all underrepresented in that system because they had tons of playing time.

    But there's more to my team than just that. I have solid (or better) defense at basically every position. The only obvious problem with my defense is that Hornsby was weak against popups (although quite good at everything else). And with Cobb and Aaron in the outfield behind Rajah, I'm not too worried about that either. Cobb is hands down the ultimate leadoff man (sorry, Henderson). Hoffman, Tekulve, and Eck are good at slamming the door on you, and having a 12 man pitching staff means I can handle the extra workload all staffs face against lineups like these. And most of my bench provides amazing flexibility, and can often replace a player without me losing out on any production (as opposed to bringing in Willie Wilson or Jose Reyes).


    Matchups:
    VS Brad's team - I have better hitting, and may even have slightly better pitching. The heart of his lineup is impressive, but his leadoff and #2 hitter are much less impressive than mine. Also, a 9 man pitching staff? That's just asking for trouble, especially in a league where Hank Aaron is a #6 hitter. And Koufax is great and all, but he had an awfully short career. Who's going to step up and fill his place? Is it going to become an 8 man staff?

    VS No Roids - His team is probably the most similar to mine. Our pitching is probably more or less the same, but his hitting is a bit worse. The real problem with his team is that his bench is HORRIBLE. He talks about his switch hitters confounding managers, but that just makes it easy for me - go with whoever's best (or play the odds against the next batters). I'll take Utley with a bad pitching matchup over someone with a 101 OPS+ (or someone with a sub-100 OPS+). Or I could bring in John McGraw or Frank Robinson. And he talks about how much speed they have, but all the speed in the world doesn't help if you never get on base...

    VS RMB - His pitching is clearly better than mine, but my lineup is clearly FAR better than his. Any time our guys on the mound for that game match up evenly, my lineup makes me the favorite. Any time our pitchers are close, I'm again the favorite. And when his pitcher is much better than mine, it might not even be enough to make up for my hitting. Also, notice that his bullpen is fairly similar to mine. That means every time we get to the end of the game (not to mention any times we go into extra innings, or his starter gets chased), my hitting advantage will shine. Also, his bench is mediocre

    VS BigRon - His team is similar to RMB's. Probably a bit better, but then you have to discount for steroids with Clemens and Bonds. His bench is probably worse than RMB's but not as bad as No Roids. Overall, I'd say BR and RMB's teams are about the same.

    VS Tyrus - His lineup is clearly worse than mine, but his pitching is only marginally better.

    VS Ian - Like Tyrus. Slightly better rotation, but his lineup needs work.
    Last edited by Wade8813; 03-14-2011 at 02:06 PM.
    The Dark Knight is the best movie I've ever seen.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDxgNjMTPIs

  3. #3
    New England Witchhunters


    Position player roster:
    C Joe Mauer (WA/MN, C, LHB)
    C Brian Downing (Cal, C LF/RF, RHB)
    1B Jimmie Foxx (Bos, 1B, backup 3B &C, RHB)
    1B Hank Greenberg (Det, 1B, backup LF/RF, RHB)
    1B Prince Fielder (Mil, 1B, LHB)
    2B Nap Lajoie (Cle, 2B, backup 1B, RHB)
    2B Frankie Frisch (Stl, 2B, 3B, SH)
    SS Arky Vaughan (Pitt, SS, backup 3B, LHB)
    SS Jose Reyes (NYM, SS, SH)
    3B Eddie Mathews (Atl, backup 1B, LHB)
    LF Rickey Henderson (Oak, CF, RHB)
    LF Willie Wilson (KC, LF/CF/RF, SH)
    CF Andre Dawson (Mont,RF/LF, RHB)
    RF Babe Ruth (NYY, backup P, LHB)
    RF Ken Singleton (Balt, LF/RF, SH)


    Regular batting lineup
    Henderson LF
    Lajoie 2B
    Ruth RF
    Foxx 1B
    Greenberg DH
    Mathews 3B
    Dawson CF
    Mauer C
    A Vaughn SS

    "Speed" lineup
    Henderson LF
    W Wilson CF
    Frisch 3B
    Ruth RF
    Foxx 1B
    Greenberg DH
    Lajoie 2B
    Mauer C
    Reyes SS

    Pitching rotation:
    Christy Mathewson (NYG, RHP)
    Steve Carlton (Phil, LHP)
    3 Finger Brown (ChiCubs, RHP)
    Dazzy Vance (Bkn, RHP)
    Hoss Radbourn (19C, RHP)

    Bullpen:
    John Franco (Cinn, LHP)
    Heath Bell (SD, RHP)
    Francisco Cordero (WA/TX, RHP)
    JR Richard (Hou, RHP)
    Billy Pierce (ChiSox, LHP)

    The Witchhunters regular batting lineup features some serious power with Ruth, Foxx, Greenberg, Mathews and Dawson in slots 3-7. There is a good lefty-righty balance in power-Ruth and Mathews are lefties and Foxx, Greenberg and Dawson are all right handed.
    Joe Mauer and Arky Vaughn at the bottom of the lineup both sport lifetime OBP of over .400 to bring things back around to the top.
    At the top of the lineup, the Witchhunters feature arguably the greatest leadoff man of all time-Rickey Henderson-who features an unrivalled combination of power and speed. While Nap Lajoie is not a prototypical #2 hitter in that he doesnt draw a ton of walks, he is a lifetime .338 hitter who is more than capable of laying down a sac bunt.

    On the bench, the 'Hunters feature several switch-hitters like Frisch, Singelton, Reyes and Wilson to confound opposing managers. Singelton is the power hitter of the group and Frankie Frisch is a very good run-producer even though he's not a big home run hitter. Reyes and Wilson are jackrabbits who can create havoc on the basepaths.
    They also have left handed slugger Prince Fielder to supply late inning thunder when needed. Backup catcher Brian Downing supplies right-handed power off the bench and also has a career OBP that is over 100 points higher than his lifetime BA. Downing can also play left or right field if needed. Jimmie Foxx is the emergency 3rd string catcher.

    The starting rotation is headed up by one of the top 5 starters of all time in Mathewson, capably backed up by 4 more HOFers. Steve Carlton is routinely mentioned as one of the top 3 or 4 lefties of all time. Mordecai Brown, Dazzy Vance and Hoss Radbourn round out the rotation. Vance is a strikeout master, Brown is annually among the league leaders in fewest walks AND hits per 9 innings and Radbourn is legendary for his durability.
    In the bullpen, all-time top LH closer John Franco leads the way-set-up men Heath Bell and Francisco Cordero are good enough to be closers on a lot of other teams. Cordero in particular is another strikeout artist.
    Long men JR Richard and LH Billy Pierce round things out-Richard is a fireballer and Pierce is a guy who is always among the league leaders in fewest hits AND walks per 9 innings and who also gets strikeouts galore.
    Last edited by No Roids; 03-09-2011 at 05:49 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    The Moon
    Posts
    5,112
    I'll post mine when it's 100% finished in case any of my plans change. Still playing with my options
    "Allen Sutton Sothoron pitched his initials off today."--1920s article

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    northeast Ohio
    Posts
    26,622
    *Mex-Italian Juanaviccis*

    *Lineup*
    C-Piazza
    1B-Carew
    2B-Morgan
    3B-Killebrew
    SS-ARod
    LF-Raines Sr
    CF-Speaker
    RF-Burkett
    DH-Winfield

    *Batting Order*
    Carew (Angels, 1B, 2B, LHB)
    Raines (Expos, LF, SHB)
    Morgan (Astros, 2B, LHB)
    ARod (Yankees, SS/3B, RHB)
    Killebrew (Twins, 3B/1B, RHB)
    Speaker (Indians, CF, LHB)
    Winfield (Padres, RF/DH, RHB)
    Deacon White (defunct Bisons, 3B/C, LHB)
    Piazza (Mets, C/1B, RHB)

    *Bench*
    Bn- Larkin (Reds, SS, RHB)
    Bn- Sandberg (Cubs, 2B, RHB)
    Bn- Cecil Cooper (Brewers, 1B/DH, LHB)
    Bn- Frank Howard (Rangers, OF/1B, RHB)
    Bn- Ted Simmons (Cardinals, C)
    Bn- George Van Haltren (Giants, CF)

    *Rotation*
    SP- Pedro Martinez (Red Sox, RHP)
    SP- Maddux (Braves, RHP)
    SP- Rube Waddell (Athletics, LHP)
    SP- Walsh (White Sox, RHP)
    SP- Newhouser (Tigers, LHP)

    *Bullpen*
    RP- Quisenberry (Royals, RHP)
    RP- Orosco (Orioles, LHP)
    RP- Schilling (Phillies, RHP)
    RP- Leever (Pirates, RHP)
    RP- Shocker (Dodgers, RHP)

    The WORST ERA+ of my rotation is 130.
    I have great positional flexibility even among my positional starters (Piazza, Carew, Killebrew, ARod).
    Last edited by RuthMayBond; 03-14-2011 at 08:45 AM.
    Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
    Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

  6. #6
    BIGRON'S ONE OFF BUMS
    ROSTER

    C Yogi Berra BL (Yankees) (LF)
    C Benito Santiago BR (Padres) .263/.307/.415 93 OPS+
    1B Johnny Mize BL (Cardinals)
    1B Andres Galarraga BR (Expos) .288/.347/.499 118 OPS+
    2B Craig Biggio BR (Astros) (CF,RF,LF,C)
    SS Honus Wagner BR (Louisville Colonels)
    3B Mike Schmidt BR (Phillies)
    3B/OF Chipper Jones BB Braves (3B,LF,RF)
    INF Mike young BR (Rangers) (2B,SS,3B) .300/.347/.448 105 OPS+
    INF Jose Valentin BB (Brewers) (SS,2B,3B) .243/.321/.448 96 OPS+
    LF Barry Bonds BL (Pirates)
    CF Duke Snider BL (Dodgers)
    RF Al Kaline BR (Tigers)
    OF Kirby Puckett BR (Twins) (CF,LF,RF) .318/.360/.477 124 OPS+
    OF Darryl Strawberry (BL (Mets) (RF,LF) .259/.357/.505 138 OPS+

    P Lefty Grove TL (Athletics)
    P Roger Clemens TR (Red Sox)
    P Bob Feller TR (Indians)
    P Juan Marichal TR (Giants)
    P Mike Mussina TR (Orioles)
    P Ferguson Jenkins TR (Cubs)
    P Brett Saberhagen TR (Royals)
    P Hoyt Wilhelm TR (White Sox)
    P Frank Tanana TL (Angels)
    P Eppa Rixey TL (Reds)

    NORMAL STARTING LINEUP AGAINST RIGHTHANDERS
    1. Wagner SS BR .328/.391/.467 150 OPS+
    2. Jones DH BB (L) .306/.405/.536 142 OPS+
    3. Bonds LF BL .298/.444/.607 181 OPS+
    4. Mize 1B BL .312/.397/.562 158 OPS+
    5. Schmidt 3B BR .267/.380/.527 147 OPS+
    6. Snider CF BL .295/.380/.540 140 OPS+
    7. Kaline RF BR .297/.376/.480 134 OPS+
    8. Berra C BL .285/.348/.482 125 OPS+
    9. Biggio 2B BR .281/.363/.433 111 OPS+

    NORMAL STARTING LINEUP VS LEFTHANDERS
    1. Wagner SS BR .328/.391/.467 150 OPS+
    2. Jones DH BB (R) .306/.405/.536 142 OPS+
    3. Bonds LF BL .298/.444/.607 181 OPS+
    4. Schmidt 3B BR .267/.380/.527 147 OPS+
    5. Mize 1B BL .312/.397/.562 158 OPS+
    6. Kaline RF BR .297/.376/.480 134 OPS+
    7. Puckett CF BR .318/.360/.477 124 OPS+
    8. Berra C BL .285/.348/.482 125 OPS+
    9. Biggio 2B BR .281/.363/.433 111 OPS+


    STARTING ROTATION
    Grove TL 3940 IP 148 ERA+
    Clemens TR 4916 IP 143 ERA+
    Feller TR 3827 IP 122 ERA+
    Marichal TR 3507 IP 123 ERA+
    Mussina TR (Spot start/middle relief) 3562 IP 123 ERA+
    Rixey TL (Spot start/middle relief) 4494 IP 115 ERA+

    Jenkins TR (Middle relief/setup) 4500 IP 115 ERA+
    Saberhagen TR (Setup/late relief) 2562 IP 126 ERA+
    Tanana TL (Setup/late relief) 4188 IP 106 ERA+
    Wilhelm TR (Late relief) 2254 IP 147 ERA+

    There's a lot that goes into a championship team- not just great hitting, but also superior pitching and defense. BigRon's One-Off Bums show remarkable balance, flexibility, and talent in all areas.

    Hitting? We've got 6 career 140+ OPS+ hitters, led by Barry Bonds. We have 8 batting champs on the roster, led by the great Honus Wagner with 8 titles himself. We've got 6 home run kings, including the alltime career and single season holder, plus Mike Schmidt, 8 time home run leader, and Johnny Mize, 4 time leader despite missing 3 prime seasons to WW2! We've got 5 guys who've led their league in OBP- led by Bonds with an incredible 10 times. Honus Wagner is one of the great baserunners and base stealers of all time. We've also got guys all through the lineup who run well. Our lineup is strong enough that Yogi Berra, 3 time MVP, bats 8th. We also have excellent left-right balance and flexibility, with 6 lefties (including switch hitting Chipper Jones) starting against righthanders, and 6 righthanders (including Jones) starting against lefthanders. Our lineup is so strong that only one starter (Biggio) has career OPS below 125- and he's a 3000 hit man. Our bench has 2 home run champs (Strawberry and Galarraga) on it, and 3 batting champs (Puckett, Young, and Galarraga). We've also got a switch hitting utility infielder, Valentin, with enough pop that he hit 249 career homers. Puckett will usually spell Snider against lefthanders. Galarraga, a righthanded hitter, will back up and occasionally spell Mize at 1B. Chipper Jones, one of the greatest switch hitters, will be DH most of the time, with an occasional start at 3B. Strawberry will give Kaline and Bonds an occasional day off.

    Defensively, we're very strong. We've got a brilliant left side of the infield with Schmidt and Wagner. Biggio and Mize play well on the right side. Our outfield defense of Bonds, Snider, Kaline (and Puckett) is excellent. Berra is a good defensive catcher, and is spelled by multiple Gold Glove winner Benito Santiago. Valentin and Young provide great infield flexibility, both playing well at 2nd, short, and third. In fact, we've got at least 3 players ready to play at each position. No other team has more defensive flexibility.

    Plus, it's worth mentioning that our team has 3 players who normally are regarded as the greatest alltime at their positions- Wagner at SS, Schmidt at 3B, and Bonds in LF. And, Berra is mentioned as often as Bench as the greatest catcher in ML history. No other team has this concentration of top position players.

    On to pitching. I think The Bums clearly have the best staff in the league. We're the only team that has 2 starters who normally are considered among the top 5 pitchers alltime- Grove and Clemens. Grove won 9 (!) ERA and ERA+ titles, Clemens 7. Grove led the league 7 times in Ks, Clemens 5 times. Our third starter, fireballing Bob Feller, won 266 games despite missing 3 1/2 seasons from the heart of his career to WW2. Feller, who led the league 7 times in Ks, is regarded as very close to an alltime top 10 pitcher. Juan Marichal slots 4th- The Dominican dandy won 243 games despite an arm injury which curtailed his career, and usually is considered to have had the best overall pitching performance in the 1960s. Marichal also is usually considered to be one of the top 25 pitchers alltime. Backing these guys up are such luminaries as HOFer Ferguson Jenkins and certain HOFer Mike Mussina (both top 25-30 guys), HOFer Eppa Rixey, Brett Saberhagen (2 CYAs), Frank Tanana, and the great Hoyt Wilhelm. Wilhelm was so outstanding that, despite not entering the Majors until age 29, he pitched in 1070 ML games! Wilhelm routinely pitched 2, 3, even 4 innings in relief. He was so good he's the only pitcher ever to win the ERA crown BOTH as a starter and reliever! Our pitching staff has great flexibility. We've got 3 southpaws- Grove, Rixey ,and Tanana (who won 240 games). Rixey and Mussina will each see spot duty in the 5th starting spot, plus middle relief. We've got the luxury of using Saberhagen a 2 time CYA winner, in middle, setup, or short relief. Jenkins, another CYA winner, will pitch mostly middle and setup, but clearly can step in as a great starter.

    That's BIGRON'S ONE OFF BUMS. Balanced excellence- ready to take on all challengers!
    Last edited by BigRon; 03-14-2011 at 07:26 AM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    The Moon
    Posts
    5,112
    Boston Alphas

    Starters
    C- Roy Campanella (Dodgers; RHB)
    1b- Dan Brouthers (Bisons (defunct); LHB)
    2b- Pete Rose (Reds; LF/RF, 1B, 3B; SHB)
    3b- Ron Santo (Cubs; RHB)
    ss- Robin Yount (Brewers; OF, RHB)
    lf- Stan Musial (Cardinals; RF, 1B, LHB)
    cf- Willie Mays (Giants; OF, RHB)
    rf- Billy Hamilton (Phillies; OF, LHB)
    dh- Frank Thomas (White Sox; 1B, RHB)

    Bench
    bn- Paul Waner (Pirates; LF/RF; LHB)
    bn- Gary Carter (Expos; C, LF/RF; RHB)
    bn- Frank White (Royals; 2B, SS; RHB)
    bn- Rafael Palmeiro (Rangers; 1B, LF/RF; LHB)
    bn- Eddie Yost (Twins; 3B; RHB)
    bn- Sam Crawford (Tigers; LF/RF; LHB)

    Rotation
    Sp- Cy Young (Red Sox; RHP)
    Sp- Warren Spahn (Braves; LHP)
    Sp- Whitey Ford (Yankees; LHP)
    Sp- Jim Palmer (Orioles; RHP)
    Sp- Bob Lemon (Indians; RHP)

    Bullpen
    rp- Tug McGraw (Mets; LHP)
    rp- Chief Bender (Athletics; RHP)
    rp- Francisco Rodriguez (Angels; RHP)
    rp- Billy Wagner (Astros; LHP)
    cp- Rollie Fingers (Padres; RHP)

    Batting Order
    Billy Hamilton (L)
    Pete Rose (S)
    Willie Mays (R)
    Stan Musial (L)
    Frank Thomas (R)
    Robin Yount (R)
    Dan Brouthers (L)
    Ron Santo (R)
    Roy Campanella (R)



    The Boston Alphas has no gaps whatsoever. My batting and pitching blends lefties and righties such to avoid any handedness disadvantage. The same goes for fielding depth; there isn’t a single position without backups, with some having multiple. Hamilton and Rose start the game, a lefty and a switch, meaning an easy walk and a hit especially against righties. Mays and Musial are more than capable of knocking them in, followed by Thomas, who can power everything else out of the park. Next comes Yount and Brouthers, two more great hitters, followed by support from Santo. All of them exceed the ability to score runs. Finally, Campanella waddles in to hit, possibly a homer, and the whole thing starts again. The 6-9 slots all feature peak players with multiple 150 OPS+ seasons and roughly 5000 RBI. They also knew how to draw a walk.

    On the bench, two more five-tool greats patroll the outfield. Crawford and Waner both batted over .300 and boast over 130 OPS+. As a contact-slugger combo: Waner hits it, Crawford drives him in. Gary Carter himself is a great starting catcher, and he is quite the hitter like Campanella, with six 120+ seasons of OPS+. Palmeiro is a dominant lefty ready to crush the opposition when I need a PH, DH, or 1B. White and Yost back up my infield with impeccable fielding skills, and Yost can draw walks (8 seasons 120+ BB) to be knocked in by the guys backing him up. Most likely to be played in the 2 or 6 slot.

    The rotation is an unstoppable force of five HoFers, with the lowest ERA+ being 119, and that comes in times of batter-favored conditions and thousands of innings pitched. Spahn and Ford can be strategically placed based on upcoming lineups. As guys who all pitched on sometimes two days rest, the starting five doesn’t have to be set in stone.

    The bullpen brings the best names to the game. All were prime pitchers in their time. Everyone is well aware of how to hold or save a game. Bender will have no problem converting his large IP as a starter to holding a score for an inning or two. Durability allows me to use them less conservatively. When in danger, I can take from an iron rotation.

    Defensively, The Alphas outrank all. Mays and Hamilton dominate the outfield. Musial holds his own out in left while Santo and Yount protect the left infield like a wall. Rose is also a versatile and respectful fielder, and I doubt Brouthers will have trouble covering his base now that he actually has a glove. Campanella and Carter, both champs at blocking bad pitches, shoot down any runner who dares steal. Waner and Crawford are also applauded for a defensive prowess, blending speed and glove to provide excellent depth. Frank White’s fielding skill hardly goes matched. Palmeiro is an adequate fielder in the outfield and at first, which may not matter if he ends up DH. Yost? Another good fielder with league-leading FP, assists, and putouts.

    Wade can amp up his lineup all he wants, but his depth and pitching are seriously flawed. He stocked up on pitchers which, despite his claims, don’t match any of ours. His lineup will tire far faster than his decent rotation and a mediocre bullpen that boasts counting numbers much more than quality pitching. Once his lineup cracks, or someone slumps, what then?


    Brad has a very respectable team, no complaints about the lineup. But his bullpen is also weak. His pitchers are more than capable of going the distance, but a lacking bullpen may not always be there to save him. His rotation can’t keep up forever; an injury or fatigued arm dooms him. Koufax and Roberts built careers on short peaks, and we all know Ryan can have a bad game more than wanted regardless of the amount of Ks. In addition, his bench is nothing special in defense.

    No Roids lineup is also intimidating, but the bench scares no one, filled with players picked because he ran out of options once he piled up his lineup in bulk. There’s too much speed and power and not enough players who claim both. The rotation consists of those who thrived in the dead ball, who will have trouble adjusting to modern play, and modern greats who let up a lot of runs and will falter against dead ball guys. The bullpen is decent, but it’s full of modern specialists who can’t go the distance. And who’s to say they can always be counted on even if for an inning?

    RuthMayBond has a scary rotation, I’ll admit. His bullpen is decent and given the rest of his team, he likes guys who can get on base. Combined with stolen bases and bunts, he’ll be favoring dead-ball era play. But my defense is ready for it; Campanella and Carter to gun down the steals, Santo to flank the bunts. His team lacks the certain “oomph” to drive in runs once men get on base.

    Two of BigRon’s top players lose value in an all-time draft. Clemens and Bonds lag due to PEDs. As I’ve said before, my lineup is ready for righty pitchers. BigRon favors them. When we discount Bonds, the lineup receives a decent grade. Bench spots like Santiago, Strawberry, and Galarraga dull in comparison to my bench. Santiago didn’t pull his weight and Strawberry built success off of peak. Galarraga’s best years came in inconsistent splurts.
    Last edited by Tyrus4189Cobb; 03-13-2011 at 03:29 PM.
    "Allen Sutton Sothoron pitched his initials off today."--1920s article

  8. #8
    NORTH SHORE WONDER MEN

    Pitchers

    Bob Gibson (Cardinals, RHP)
    Walter Johnson (Twins, RHP)
    Randy Jones (Padres, LHP)
    Kid Nichols (Braves, RHP)
    Roy Oswalt (Astros, RHP)
    Eddie Plank (Athletics, LHP)
    Mariano Rivera (Yankees, RHP)
    Steve Rogers (Nationals, RHP)
    CC Sabathia (Indians, LHP)
    John Wetteland (Rangers, RHP)

    Catchers

    Johnny Bench (Reds, C, 3B, 1B, COF, RHB)
    Bill Freehan (Tigers, C, 1B, RHB)

    Infielders

    Cap Anson (Cubs, 1B, 3B, C, RHB)
    Eddie Collins (White Sox, 2B, LHB)
    Jack Glasscock (Cleveland Blues (defunct), SS, RHB)
    Keith Hernandez (Mets, 1B, LHB)
    Paul Molitor (Brewers, 3B, 2B, 1B, RHB)
    Cal Ripken Jr. (Orioles, SS, 3B, RHB)
    Jackie Robinson (Dodgers, 2B, 3B, 1B, COF, RHB)

    Outfielders

    Carlos Beltran (Royals, CF, SHB)
    Roberto Clemente (Pirates, COF, RHB)
    Ed Delahanty (Phillies, COF, 1B, CF, 2B RHB)
    Jim Edmonds (Angels, CF, LHB)
    Mel Ott (Giants, COF, 3B, CF, LHB)
    Carl Yastrzemski (Red Sox, COF, 1B, CF, LHB)


    ----
    ROTATION

    SP - Johnson (R) (147 ERA+)
    SP - Nichols (R) (140 ERA+)
    SP - Gibson (R) (128 ERA+)
    SP - Plank (L) (122 ERA+)
    SP - Oswalt (R) (135 ERA+)

    BULLPEN

    Long lefty - Sabathia (L) (123 ERA+)
    Long righty - Rogers (R) (116 ERA+)
    LOOGY - Jones (L) (101 ERA+)
    Setup man - Wetteland (R) (149 ERA+)
    Closer - Rivera (R) (205 ERA+)

    LINEUP VS LHP

    HTML Code:
    2B - Robinson (R)      (.311/.409/.474, 131 OPS+)
    DH - Molitor (R)       (.306/.369/.448, 122 OPS+)
    LF - Delahanty (R)     (.346/.411/.505, 152 OPS+)
    C - Bench (R)          (.267/.342/.476, 126 OPS+)
    1B - Anson (R)         (.334/.394/.447, 142 OPS+)
    RF - Clemente (R)      (.317/.359/.475, 130 OPS+)
    CF - Beltran (S)       (.282/.359/.494, 118 OPS+)
    SS - Glasscock (R)     (.290/.337/.374, 111 OPS+)
    3B - Ripken (R)        (.276/.340/.447, 112 OPS+)
    LINEUP VS RHP

    HTML Code:
    2B - Collins (L)        (.333/.424/.429, 142 OPS+)
    1B - Hernandez (L)      (.296/.384/.436, 128 OPS+)
    LF - Yastrzemski (L)    (.285/.379/.462, 129 OPS+)
    DH - Ott (L)            (.304/.414/.533, 155 OPS+)
    C - Bench (R)           (.267/.342/.476, 126 OPS+)
    CF - Edmonds (L)        (.284/.376/.527, 132 OPS+)
    RF - Clemente (R)       (.317/.359/.475, 130 OPS+)
    SS - Glasscock (R)      (.290/.337/.374, 111 OPS+)
    3B - Ripken (R)         (.276/.340/.447, 112 OPS+)
    -----
    What makes the North Shore Wonder Men so great? Simple: run prevention. You think you'll get an easy single against them? Think again. This defense is solid-to-outstanding at every position. You think you'll blast your way to victory? Not so fast. These pitchers keep the ball in the park, turning your sluggers into popfly and groundout machines. You think you'll coax a walk? Oh, surely you jest. This staff has some of history's best control artists.

    If you're going to beat them, you'd better get ahead early, because Wetteland and Rivera are two dominant bullpen anchors. The weakest member of the relief corps is Jones, but the strong defense behind him plays to the junkballer's strengths.

    As far as offense goes, don't even think about starting a left-hander against them, because they have enough righties to make your life miserable. Your odds are a little bit better with a right-hander, but you'd still better watch out for the heart of that order. They have a platoon of two dominant leadoff men, either of whom can post a .400+ OBP and steal some bases. Their #2 men are both good at avoiding the double play, meaning you'll frequently find yourself with two men on facing a Hall of Fame slugger with good on-base skills. Ott and Bench both pack a wallop, and Anson, Clemente and Edmonds aren't exactly easy outs. The only relief you might get is at the bottom of the order, but neither of those guys is Mario Mendoza either.

    In short, this team will be difficult to score against, and they're capable of scoring enough to win. Don't take them lightly just because they aren't stocked with eye-popping names. They're a pesky bunch who'll beat you in subtle ways.
    Last edited by ian2813; 03-14-2011 at 03:38 PM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Wade8813 View Post
    Green Bay Blues

    VS BigRon - His team is similar to RMB's. Probably a bit better, but then you have to discount for steroids with Clemens and Bonds. .
    Why do you have to discount for steroids for Clemens and Bonds? Their performance is what it is. If you discount them (which you shouldn't), you must discount every player who played since the mid-1980s, since they all must be suspect.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRon View Post
    Why do you have to discount for steroids for Clemens and Bonds? Their performance is what it is. If you discount them (which you shouldn't), you must discount every player who played since the mid-1980s, since they all must be suspect.
    Technically, we don't HAVE to, but it's generally what people do. They give war credit, they penalize steroid users, whatever. Why do they penalize steroid users? Because those players didn't earn the accomplishments. Bonds was an amazing player. But he was starting to decline, and suddenly he was outhitting Ruth's best years.

    And it makes very little sense to deduct from every single player from the mid-eighties on. Just like it doesn't make sense to assume everyone from the 20's was violating the Prohibition, or that everyone from the 60's used misc. recreational drugs. Bonds' performance fits the profile, he has been accused by people close to him, and he's been charged by our legal system. Then you compare that to someone like Ichiro, who's performance doesn't fit the profile, and there's no reason to suspect anything except the fact that he happened to play in this era.
    The Dark Knight is the best movie I've ever seen.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDxgNjMTPIs

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Wade8813 View Post
    Technically, we don't HAVE to, but it's generally what people do. They give war credit, they penalize steroid users, whatever. Why do they penalize steroid users? Because those players didn't earn the accomplishments. Bonds was an amazing player. But he was starting to decline, and suddenly he was outhitting Ruth's best years.

    And it makes very little sense to deduct from every single player from the mid-eighties on. Just like it doesn't make sense to assume everyone from the 20's was violating the Prohibition, or that everyone from the 60's used misc. recreational drugs. Bonds' performance fits the profile, he has been accused by people close to him, and he's been charged by our legal system. Then you compare that to someone like Ichiro, who's performance doesn't fit the profile, and there's no reason to suspect anything except the fact that he happened to play in this era.
    Well, let's discount Arod and Palmeiro while we're at it. They've both been caught using banned PEDs. I understand your point very well, but it seems to me to be a bit mean spirited. Neither Bonds nor Clemens has been found guilty of anything.

  12. #12
    If we're deciding winners based on votes, doesn't that mean we can decide for ourselves whether we want to discount for steroids?

  13. #13
    I have to say, I beg to differ about Cobb being the ultimate leadoff hitter.
    Henderson was a FULL-TIME leadoff man. While Cobb probably batted leadoff from time to time, he was primarily a #3 or 4 hitter. No doubt Cobb is among the 2 or 3 best hitters of all-time. But in proper, historically accurate terms, he was NOT a full-time leadoff hitter.
    He just happens to be Wade's leadoff hitter.
    If Cobb had been the Tigers' leadoff hitter for his actual career, I would agree that he was the best leadoff hitter ever, but he wasnt, so I cant agree with calling him the best at a position he rarely batted.
    Its kinda similar to calling Jimmie Foxx the greatest hitting catcher ever, just because he happened to catch over 100 games in his career.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRon View Post
    Well, let's discount Arod and Palmeiro while we're at it. They've both been caught using banned PEDs. I understand your point very well, but it seems to me to be a bit mean spirited. Neither Bonds nor Clemens has been found guilty of anything.
    Oh, I plan to discount A-Rod and Palmeiro. But they're on teams where I already beat the heck out of those lineups, so I didn't analyze those lineups as much. And Palmeiro's on the bench, so I have even less reason to be worried about him.

    You're right that they haven't been found guilty (yet), but it seems pretty obvious to me.

    Who am I being mean to? Your team? Them personally? Normally I would have mentioned A-Rod, Palmeiro, etc as well, I just happened to overlook them this time. I was writing my analysis in a kind of haphazard way. I'd write a little bit, then go back and edit in more, then go back and redo some of it, etc. As far as them personally, if I ever somehow met them, I would be perfectly willing to overlook something as trivial as whether or not they used PEDs.

    Quote Originally Posted by ian2813 View Post
    If we're deciding winners based on votes, doesn't that mean we can decide for ourselves whether we want to discount for steroids?
    Of course, since no rule was established one way or the other, it's up to our discretion.

    Quote Originally Posted by No Roids View Post
    I have to say, I beg to differ about Cobb being the ultimate leadoff hitter.
    Henderson was a FULL-TIME leadoff man. While Cobb probably batted leadoff from time to time, he was primarily a #3 or 4 hitter. No doubt Cobb is among the 2 or 3 best hitters of all-time. But in proper, historically accurate terms, he was NOT a full-time leadoff hitter.

    He just happens to be Wade's leadoff hitter.

    If Cobb had been the Tigers' leadoff hitter for his actual career, I would agree that he was the best leadoff hitter ever, but he wasnt, so I cant agree with calling him the best at a position he rarely batted.

    Its kinda similar to calling Jimmie Foxx the greatest hitting catcher ever, just because he happened to catch over 100 games in his career.
    I have no idea how many games Cobb led off. Do you know?

    Would it make you feel better if I'd said Cobb is "The best guy batting leadoff on one of our teams" instead? It'd mean basically the same thing...

    If Foxx were allowed to be your fulltime catcher without any penalty, he would have been taken in the first round - maybe even in the first couple picks. Being a catcher would significantly boost his value. And if he had played catcher full time, he almost certainly wouldn't have been as productive at the plate and wouldn't have played as long because of the immense wear and tear catchers go through.

    On the other hand Cobb fits the profile of a leadoff hitter to a T, and it would quite possibly have helped him to have good hitters behind him in the lineup. And from what I've heard, he excelled at distracting pitchers while he was on base, meaning everyone batting after him might do better as well.

    Besides, if he played even a quarter of his games as the number 1 hitter, that would be over 700 games; and if it's enough to qualify someone at a position, it should be enough to qualify Cobb as a leadoff hitter ;-).

    --------

    And while we're critiquing team analyses...

    Quote Originally Posted by ian2813 View Post
    NORTH SHORE WONDER MEN
    What makes the North Shore Wonder Men so great? Simple: run prevention. You think you'll get an easy single against them? Think again. This defense is solid-to-outstanding at every position. You think you'll blast your way to victory? Not so fast. These pitchers keep the ball in the park, turning your sluggers into popfly and groundout machines. You think you'll coax a walk? Oh, surely you jest. This staff has some of history's best control artists.
    I would just like to point out that it's a lot easier to keep the ball in the park when you're pitching in the deadball era.

    And I DARE you to refuse to walk my batters. Because that means you'll be throwing strikes to these guys.
    Last edited by Wade8813; 03-11-2011 at 11:29 PM.
    The Dark Knight is the best movie I've ever seen.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDxgNjMTPIs

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Wade8813 View Post
    I would just like to point out that it's a lot easier to keep the ball in the park when you're pitching in the deadball era.
    Obviously, but many of these guys were/are among the best at preventing home runs relative to their eras. And you can forget about inside-the-parkers with my outfield.

    And I DARE you to refuse to walk my batters. Because that means you'll be throwing strikes to these guys.
    What do you take my pitchers for? Cowards? These guys have good control. They'll find those spots in the zone your hitters don't like and put the ball right there. Huge swing and it's...a weak groundout to Glasscock.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ian2813 View Post
    Obviously, but many of these guys were/are among the best at preventing home runs relative to their eras. And you can forget about inside-the-parkers with my outfield.
    Haha, yeah - I don't think any teams are going to rely on hitting inside the part home runs, no matter what your defense is like

    What do you take my pitchers for? Cowards? These guys have good control. They'll find those spots in the zone your hitters don't like and put the ball right there. Huge swing and it's...a weak groundout to Glasscock.
    It has nothing to do with being cowards. I don't care how good of control you have, pitchers can't hit the precise spot they were aiming for every time. And missing by two inches can be the difference between a weak groundout and a pitch in the batter's wheelhouse.

    In real games, your pitchers gave up runs against mediocre lineups. They're gonna give up more runs against the weakest of these all-time lineups, and even more runs against a lineup like mine.
    The Dark Knight is the best movie I've ever seen.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDxgNjMTPIs

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Wade8813 View Post
    In real games, your pitchers gave up runs against mediocre lineups. They're gonna give up more runs against the weakest of these all-time lineups, and even more runs against a lineup like mine.
    In real games your batters were retired by mediocre pitchers. They're going to be retired more often against the weakest of these all-time pitching staffs, and even more often against a pitching staff like mine.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by ian2813 View Post
    In real games your batters were retired by mediocre pitchers. They're going to be retired more often against the weakest of these all-time pitching staffs, and even more often against a pitching staff like mine.
    Check my post #6 in the playoff thread. In our league the batters will do worse than they did in real life and the pitchers will also do worse.

  19. #19
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    Of course. My point was that you (Ian) were talking about you pitchers being Control masters who would somehow be able to usually induce weak groudouts. They couldn't always do that against mediocre lineups, and they can't do it against all-time lineups.
    The Dark Knight is the best movie I've ever seen.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDxgNjMTPIs

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Wade8813 View Post
    Of course. My point was that you (Ian) were talking about you pitchers being Control masters who would somehow be able to usually induce weak groudouts. They couldn't always do that against mediocre lineups, and they can't do it against all-time lineups.
    They can't do it against all-time lineups? Golly gee, I guess I might as well admit defeat to your almighty lineup now, because no matter what argument I try to make for my team's strengths I'm apparently wrong.

    It doesn't matter how good my pitchers are, as soon as they step onto the mound against your musclebound batsmen they'll be reduced to writhing in a puddle of their own urine, because the Green Bay Blues' batting order is just too intimidating for them to handle. If any of them ever gets up the composure to throw a pitch, they'll be chased by the middle of the second, because there's no way to stop this invincible juggernaut. If they play a best-of-seven series the Blues will win by default, because the entire Wonder Men roster will have committed suicide after Game 2. The league commissioner will realize how unstoppable they are and declare the rest of the season forfeited to the Blues to prevent anymore needless deaths.

    However, all is not lost. True to their team name, the dead players' spirits will visit their bookish, unathletic identical twin brothers. Those brothers will use their investigative skills to uncover the fact that Aaron's using greenies, I-Rod's using steroids, Cobb's sharpening his spikes to a lethal degree, Boggs and Mantle are cheating on their wives, Appling's malingering, McGraw's holding onto the belts of baserunners, and on the pitching staff Perry's doctoring the ball, Drysdale's throwing at people's heads and Alexander's drunk. With these new revelations, the spirits will inhabit the bodies of their brothers and challenge the Blues to a rematch. Due to the Blues' objectionable activities, the umpires will have no choice but to penalize them by awarding victory to the Wonder Men!

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ian2813 View Post
    They can't do it against all-time lineups? Golly gee, I guess I might as well admit defeat to your almighty lineup now, because no matter what argument I try to make for my team's strengths I'm apparently wrong.

    It doesn't matter how good my pitchers are, as soon as they step onto the mound against your musclebound batsmen they'll be reduced to writhing in a puddle of their own urine, because the Green Bay Blues' batting order is just too intimidating for them to handle. If any of them ever gets up the composure to throw a pitch, they'll be chased by the middle of the second, because there's no way to stop this invincible juggernaut. If they play a best-of-seven series the Blues will win by default, because the entire Wonder Men roster will have committed suicide after Game 2. The league commissioner will realize how unstoppable they are and declare the rest of the season forfeited to the Blues to prevent anymore needless deaths.
    You seem to misinterpret what I state. A lot. Your post implied that your pitchers were some sort of mythological control masters who will induce weak groundouts all the time.

    Sure, there will be weak groundouts. There will also be sharp groundouts, and sharp grounders that make it through for base hits. There will also be bloopers, line drives, and towering home runs.

    In case I haven't been clear enough I agree that my batters will get out more against your pitchers than in real life. But when you say things like "You think you'll coax a walk? Surely you jest", that implies either a level of dominance that's flat out impossible and/or an absolute refusal to try to nibble the corners, which would result in a lot more hits than it would if your pitchers pitched as they normally would.

    Maybe you were using hyperbole. That's fine - I was just saying that if you were being completely serious, it's not going to work out as you describe. And somehow from my statement that it won't be as easy as you describe, you think I'm saying your pitchers don't stand a chance.
    The Dark Knight is the best movie I've ever seen.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDxgNjMTPIs

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Wade8813 View Post
    You seem to misinterpret what I state. A lot. Your post implied that your pitchers were some sort of mythological control masters who will induce weak groundouts all the time.

    Sure, there will be weak groundouts. There will also be sharp groundouts, and sharp grounders that make it through for base hits. There will also be bloopers, line drives, and towering home runs.

    In case I haven't been clear enough I agree that my batters will get out more against your pitchers than in real life. But when you say things like "You think you'll coax a walk? Surely you jest", that implies either a level of dominance that's flat out impossible and/or an absolute refusal to try to nibble the corners, which would result in a lot more hits than it would if your pitchers pitched as they normally would.

    Maybe you were using hyperbole. That's fine - I was just saying that if you were being completely serious, it's not going to work out as you describe. And somehow from my statement that it won't be as easy as you describe, you think I'm saying your pitchers don't stand a chance.
    For crying out loud, I can't believe we're having this conversation. Of course I was using hyperbole. Anyone with half a brain knows that even the greatest players aren't invincible. However, if I want to win this competition, I have to convince people to vote for my team, which means selling their strengths as best I possibly can. Isn't that the whole point of having an accompanying blurb?

    I tried to be light-hearted throughout our exchange because I couldn't tell whether your responses were meant as good-natured smack-talk or whether you were bent on tearing my team to shreds. The more you insisted on schooling me as though I literally thought my pitchers were unhittable, the more it seemed like the latter.

    All I've been doing is trying to argue for my team with a touch of humor, and it's frustrating when I continually have to defend every quip down to the letter. I really don't think my humor is that subtle.

  23. #23
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    I thought you were being hyperbolic, and merely responded to your post as "yah, but your hyperbole doesn't beat my team". But then you responded that way again, and it suddenly seemed like you were being serious. I apologize if I misunderstood you.
    The Dark Knight is the best movie I've ever seen.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDxgNjMTPIs

  24. #24
    I see that both Wade and Tyrus claim two of my players, Bonds and Clemens, must/should be discounted due to PED use. It's certainly their right to use whatever criteria they wish. But I don't think it's appropriate to suggest that everyone must/should follow that logic. Reality is reality. Bonds and Clemens (and ARod and Palmeiro and probably many other players from the last 25 years) performed the way they performed- for real- against the competition. To my knowledge, neither Bonds nor Clemens has been convicted of anything (though I, as many others, believe it is likely that they used some form of PEDs at some time). But, their records and performances are what they are. You can't change it. Bonds hit 762 career homers- you can't rewrite the record books and say that he actually hit 629. Clemens won 7 Cy Young Awards- you can't rewrite the books and say he won 4.

    While we're at it, are we going to also discount the performances of Gaylord Perry, Whitey Ford, and a number of other accused cheaters?

    In the end we're all going to vote the way we want, why we want. But, you can't change the reality of the performances.
    Last edited by BigRon; 03-14-2011 at 02:12 PM.

  25. #25
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    I shoulda known that I'd want to reply to something in this thread even though there were no new posts; obviously people would be editing their posts, which dont' show up as New Posts...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrus4189Cobb View Post
    Hamilton and Rose start the game, a lefty and a switch, meaning an easy walk and a hit especially against righties. Mays and Musial are more than capable of knocking them in, followed by Thomas, who can power everything else out of the park. Next comes Yount and Brouthers, two more great hitters, followed by support from Santo. All of them exceed the ability to score runs. Finally, Campanella waddles in to hit, possibly a homer, and the whole thing starts again. The 6-9 slots all feature peak players with multiple 150 OPS+ seasons and roughly 5000 RBI. They also knew how to draw a walk.
    If Hamilton and Rose are an easy walk and a hit, I'd love to see what Cobb and Hornsby can do.

    The rotation is an unstoppable force of five HoFers, with the lowest ERA+ being 119, and that comes in times of batter-favored conditions and thousands of innings pitched.
    Batter-favored conditions are supposed to be accounted for already. Just sayin'...

    Wade can amp up his lineup all he wants, but his depth and pitching are seriously flawed. He stocked up on pitchers which, despite his claims, don't match any of ours. His lineup will tire far faster than his decent rotation and a mediocre bullpen that boasts counting numbers much more than quality pitching. Once his lineup cracks, or someone slumps, what then?
    My Bullpen depends on counting numbers? Hoffman is widely regarded as one of the top closers of all time. Tekulve had a career 132 ERA+. And sure, a lot of Eck's value comes from a long time pitching as a starter, but he proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that he would have dominated far more had he spent that time in the bullpen.

    I'm surprised you'd try to attack my bench. Because honestly, in comparison to everyone else's it might be even better than my lineup. Obviously, my lineup is more valuable to my team and has the better players, but that's true for everyone. But if Mantle needs a day off, my outfield will be Ty Cobb, Hank Aaron, and Frank Robinson. Are you trying to tell me that's a weakness for my team? My bench is so strong that two guys I originally intended to have be starters on my team are going to usually be on my bench (Robinson and Bagwell). A lot of my guys will get days off when they don't even need it, just because I have enough flexibility and I'll be playing the matchups.
    The Dark Knight is the best movie I've ever seen.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDxgNjMTPIs

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