José Reyes Watch

**Strawman** · 03-03-2011, 10:11 AM

Sadly, we need this thread.

When I saw Buster Olney's item today that the Yanks might consider signing Reyes and moving Jeter after this year, I knew we were going to have to have this conversation.

Alderson was brought in to bring a middle market model to the Mets while the franchise tries the weather the midnight of its financial crisis, and it's been clear all along that he doesn't like one of the Mets all-time top five everyday players - and a huge fan favorite to boot.

Reyes' years from 2006 through '08 are three of the best in team history - then there was a season lost to serious injury and another that can be put in the 80% comeback category. So now he's 27 and in his walk year, looking strong and looking for 5-6 year deal - a deal he will undoubtedly get from the Red Sox, Yankees, Giants or other similarly oriented teams if he shows some '08-era form this year.

Only a movement of Mets fans will keep him in Queens - I do believe the Mets are indeed stupid enough to let him walk and watch their fan base enthusiasm dip even further.

**Mongoose** · 03-03-2011, 10:26 AM

Jose Reyes better keep an eye on his watch or Jeff Wilpon is liable to sneak it out of the locker room and pawn it.

**m8644** · 03-03-2011, 10:47 AM

Actually Straw....it's only clear to YOU that Alderson doesnt like Reyes.......He's said NUMEROUS times that he wants Reyes on this team, but he wants to see a healthy.."reyes" like season first....which is perfectly fine. Reyes NEEDS to raise his OBP from that pathetic .321 it was last year......and i'm sure he will.

If the money is there to sign Jose....then Alderson will, as long as Reyes deserves it. If this situation gets worse and the $$$ flat out is not there...then that sucks. But how exactly is that Alderson's fault in any logical way??????????

**Strawman** · 03-03-2011, 11:13 AM

“Jose has done more to make me a better player than anyone I’ve played with,” David Wright told Bob Klapisch of the Bergen Record about Reyes. “I can’t think of what it would be like if he were gone.”

Yet the wheels are turning....this won't be Seaver II but it will be a solid second place in New York Mets history.

**m8644** · 03-03-2011, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by Strawman

“Jose has done more to make me a better player than anyone I’ve played with,” David Wright told Bob Klapisch of the Bergen Record about Reyes. “I can’t think of what it would be like if he were gone.”

Yet the wheels are turning....this won't be Seaver II but it will be a solid second place in New York Mets history.

a quote from Wright....in which he was SPECIFICALLY asked the question of what it would be like IF reyes was gone means that the "wheels are turning"???

OK then.....I'll ask my friend what it would be like if him and his wife get divorced..........and that will mean the wheels are turning on divorce proceedings I guess.....

**m8644** · 03-03-2011, 11:32 AM

Im still waiting to hear how it's "clear all along" that Alderson doesnt like Reyes.......Just because you dont respect the new front office talent doesnt mean you can throw out acqusations like that. He's said 300 times he likes reyes......even compared him to Rickey Henderson at one point this offseason......and said he wants to see him put up a true "reyes" season before he gives him a huge contract offer

So please logically explain how Alderson doesnt like him

**Shea Knight** · 03-03-2011, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by Strawman

When I saw Buster Olney's item today that the Yanks might consider signing Reyes and moving Jeter after this year, I knew we were going to have to have this conversation.

I swear...ANY uniform other than a Mets' uniform for Jose would be bad enough...

But if he went to the Yankees...!

**Shea Knight** · 06-06-2011, 12:59 AM

So, got to see the Mets on TV for a change...and got to see them WIN on TV, an even nicer change...and got to see them beat the BRAVES on TV...

Wow--in all my years of watching the Mets, I haven't seen a lot of those (at least not as many as I'd have liked to see.)

But anyway, on ESPN's telecast of the Mets/Braves game Sunday, I think bobby V had a great point about this whole Reyes/salary business.

His points, summarized:

You NEED players to build a team around, plain and simple.
Good players are needed for good teams.
And good players cost money.
Reyes is 27, and having arguably his best season so far in the majors.
Leads the league in triples.
Up there in doubles.
2nd in steals.
Nearly a .340 batting average.
Near the top in runs scored.
Sure-fire All-Star, and maybe the starting SS.
Good OBP.
Healthy as a horse.
New York will NOT accept a Pittsburgh Pirates/Kansas City Royals-level payroll or roster.
New York can SUPPORT better than a PIT/KC-level payroll or roster.
Ollie and Castillo come off the books for sure, K-Rod/Beltran maybe, probably at least one, if not both.
One, two, or even three All-Star-level players and their salaries is NOT too much to expect for a NY-market team.
The fans CLEARLY want Jose, he's drawing well, and with T-shirts and rallies, they want him BADLY.

Hence...

JOSE REYES CAN AND MUST BE KEPT!

I'm sorry, I refuse to believe both of the following cop-outs:

-The Mets don't have the money (Again, millions come off the books this year, so that fees up cash, and the new part-owner brings something to the table, assuming he wants a winner, and there's no question Jose Reyes is both a palyer to build around and will draw fans and make that expenditure justified. Besides all that--Ike isn't getting paid a lot, Turner isn't, Thole isn't, Pagan isn't Murphy isn't, Tejada, Dickey, Niese, NONE of them paid all that much, so it's not like this is the Yankees and everyone is costing a fortune right now; Wright/Reyes/Beltran/Bay and maybe Santana are the 5 big expenditures for the Mets. Bay we're stuck with or we trade and eat some of that salary--and given how poorly he's played and how well Pridie and Murphy are going, I'd be alright with that, give Pridie the spot, maybe groom Murph to eventually become decent enough to take the LF job, because his bat really does warrant his staying, and he's a low cost, he shoudl stay--and so that leaves 4. Santana isn't going anywhere, not being injured and having not pitched at all this year. Beltran likely is gone, probably as a DH somewhere. That leaves Reyes and Wright to be paid for--figure K-Rod to be gone, given he's on pace to be used 55+ times and max out his deal. So, the Mets can't afford to keep Wright/Reyes/Santana and then the other good players they currently have signed tosmall-scale-contracts? I don't buy it...and neitehr does Bobby V.)

-Reyes isn't worth it (See above for every last reason WHY he's worth it.)

Reyes MUST be kept.
Santana will have to stay, there's no trade option there.
Beltran is likely gone, sadly.
Ditto K-Rod.
Bay can go either way.
And that leaves Wright, whose having a subpar season, but still might be worth keeping, and isn't in a contract year yet.

Oh, and one final thing:

ESPN's stat analysis showed the overall numbers for Crawford and Reyes to be nearly identical, and the all-important-for-Alderson OBP WAS identical.

So sorry, Freddy Wilpon--he DOES deserve Carl Crawford money, and I don't believe you when you say you can't dish it out to even 1 of your 25 players, especially with the new ownership's money, MLB's urging Wilpon to keep the team a contender to preserve the all-important NY market--the same thing's going on in their handling of the Dodgers in my neck of the woods, trying to fix the situation and keep them intact as a team because they represent so much revenue--and the fans and stats clearly warranting Jose's stay.

You can afford it, in fact, you can't afford NOT to pay the one player who's really your beacon of light on the team.

So, to reiterate Bobby V's oh-so-wise Words of Wisdom:

WRIGHT/REYES CAN AND SHOULD BE PRESERVED!

And at the very least...lest we need to say it again...

JOSE REYES CAN AND MUST BE KEPT!!!

**Shea Knight** · 06-06-2011, 01:07 AM

Really, this is not a team that needs to be blown up, just one that needs to be managed properly and, amybe, get some better trainers (one or two players and maybe they're fragile; when EVERY Mets player seems to get injured...it's the staff, time to hire a new one.)

Wright, Reyes, Ike, Turner--who has a shot at ROY--Tejada--who's really impressed me so far, wasn't that impressed last year, he's really got a great glove and a much improved bat this year to go with that speed of his--Pridie, Pagan, Murphy...

All of them cann and should stay.

Bay and Beltran...eh...Carlos I'd like to ssee stay, but naturally he'll likely be gone and it'll be Bay that stays, if even him.

Dickey/Niese/Pelfrey is a fair #3-5.

GEE IS AMAZING SO FAR...he's not the second coming of Tom Seaveer, to be sure, heck, not even up to Al Leiter-status, but 6-0 is a pretty good start, you can say he's had help, but for anyone 6-0 is a great start, and for a relative rookie, even more so.

Santana...well, we'll see when he gets back.

The bullpen, with the exception of one or two, like Pedro Beato and Bobby Parnell, are irelevant now, not at all worthy of discussion, it's a weak spot, to be sure (Manny Acosta, you proved tonight why I have absolutely no faith when you come into the game...)

This is a salvagable team, and NOT, contrary belief, a salvage job that'd be expensive if players were to be kept. We can afford a couple All-Stars, and we're getting some great production from folks not paid a ton (see: Gee, Murphy, Turner...)

**Paulypal** · 06-06-2011, 06:55 AM

Originally Posted by Shea Knight

So, got to see the Mets on TV for a change...and got to see them WIN on TV, an even nicer change...and got to see them beat the BRAVES on TV...

Wow--in all my years of watching the Mets, I haven't seen a lot of those (at least not as many as I'd have liked to see.)

But anyway, on ESPN's telecast of the Mets/Braves game Sunday, I think bobby V had a great point about this whole Reyes/salary business.

His points, summarized:

You NEED players to build a team around, plain and simple.
Good players are needed for good teams.
And good players cost money.
Reyes is 27, and having arguably his best season so far in the majors.
Leads the league in triples.
Up there in doubles.
2nd in steals.
Nearly a .340 batting average.
Near the top in runs scored.
Sure-fire All-Star, and maybe the starting SS.
Good OBP.
Healthy as a horse.
New York will NOT accept a Pittsburgh Pirates/Kansas City Royals-level payroll or roster.
New York can SUPPORT better than a PIT/KC-level payroll or roster.
Ollie and Castillo come off the books for sure, K-Rod/Beltran maybe, probably at least one, if not both.
One, two, or even three All-Star-level players and their salaries is NOT too much to expect for a NY-market team.
The fans CLEARLY want Jose, he's drawing well, and with T-shirts and rallies, they want him BADLY.

Hence...

JOSE REYES CAN AND MUST BE KEPT!

I'm sorry, I refuse to believe both of the following cop-outs:

-The Mets don't have the money (Again, millions come off the books this year, so that fees up cash, and the new part-owner brings something to the table, assuming he wants a winner, and there's no question Jose Reyes is both a palyer to build around and will draw fans and make that expenditure justified. Besides all that--Ike isn't getting paid a lot, Turner isn't, Thole isn't, Pagan isn't Murphy isn't, Tejada, Dickey, Niese, NONE of them paid all that much, so it's not like this is the Yankees and everyone is costing a fortune right now; Wright/Reyes/Beltran/Bay and maybe Santana are the 5 big expenditures for the Mets. Bay we're stuck with or we trade and eat some of that salary--and given how poorly he's played and how well Pridie and Murphy are going, I'd be alright with that, give Pridie the spot, maybe groom Murph to eventually become decent enough to take the LF job, because his bat really does warrant his staying, and he's a low cost, he shoudl stay--and so that leaves 4. Santana isn't going anywhere, not being injured and having not pitched at all this year. Beltran likely is gone, probably as a DH somewhere. That leaves Reyes and Wright to be paid for--figure K-Rod to be gone, given he's on pace to be used 55+ times and max out his deal. So, the Mets can't afford to keep Wright/Reyes/Santana and then the other good players they currently have signed tosmall-scale-contracts? I don't buy it...and neitehr does Bobby V.)

-Reyes isn't worth it (See above for every last reason WHY he's worth it.)

Reyes MUST be kept.
Santana will have to stay, there's no trade option there.
Beltran is likely gone, sadly.
Ditto K-Rod.
Bay can go either way.
And that leaves Wright, whose having a subpar season, but still might be worth keeping, and isn't in a contract year yet.

Oh, and one final thing:

ESPN's stat analysis showed the overall numbers for Crawford and Reyes to be nearly identical, and the all-important-for-Alderson OBP WAS identical.

So sorry, Freddy Wilpon--he DOES deserve Carl Crawford money, and I don't believe you when you say you can't dish it out to even 1 of your 25 players, especially with the new ownership's money, MLB's urging Wilpon to keep the team a contender to preserve the all-important NY market--the same thing's going on in their handling of the Dodgers in my neck of the woods, trying to fix the situation and keep them intact as a team because they represent so much revenue--and the fans and stats clearly warranting Jose's stay.

You can afford it, in fact, you can't afford NOT to pay the one player who's really your beacon of light on the team.

So, to reiterate Bobby V's oh-so-wise Words of Wisdom:

WRIGHT/REYES CAN AND SHOULD BE PRESERVED!

And at the very least...lest we need to say it again...

JOSE REYES CAN AND MUST BE KEPT!!!

Originally Posted by Shea Knight

Really, this is not a team that needs to be blown up, just one that needs to be managed properly and, amybe, get some better trainers (one or two players and maybe they're fragile; when EVERY Mets player seems to get injured...it's the staff, time to hire a new one.)

Wright, Reyes, Ike, Turner--who has a shot at ROY--Tejada--who's really impressed me so far, wasn't that impressed last year, he's really got a great glove and a much improved bat this year to go with that speed of his--Pridie, Pagan, Murphy...

All of them cann and should stay.

Bay and Beltran...eh...Carlos I'd like to ssee stay, but naturally he'll likely be gone and it'll be Bay that stays, if even him.

Dickey/Niese/Pelfrey is a fair #3-5.

GEE IS AMAZING SO FAR...he's not the second coming of Tom Seaveer, to be sure, heck, not even up to Al Leiter-status, but 6-0 is a pretty good start, you can say he's had help, but for anyone 6-0 is a great start, and for a relative rookie, even more so.

Santana...well, we'll see when he gets back.

The bullpen, with the exception of one or two, like Pedro Beato and Bobby Parnell, are irelevant now, not at all worthy of discussion, it's a weak spot, to be sure (Manny Acosta, you proved tonight why I have absolutely no faith when you come into the game...)

This is a salvagable team, and NOT, contrary belief, a salvage job that'd be expensive if players were to be kept. We can afford a couple All-Stars, and we're getting some great production from folks not paid a ton (see: Gee, Murphy, Turner...)

I agree with Bobby V. You need good players to build around. Reyes is an excellent player when healthy and having a great year. Their is a ton of money coming off the books. All very true. I still seriously doubt he is a Met in 2012. If he is a Met for the rest of season its because of the draft pick. Just my opinion. Fred can save a lot of face by signing him, but I still doubt he does. You said it yourself he deserves what Crawford got, but he isnt getting it here...he is not giving a hometown discount, and he will test the FA market. Again my opinion. Jose hasnt called me to tell me all this but its the most logical out come.

I disagree because you almost sound like you think you have major league team here. Do you really think this team is capable of competing? This team needs to be reconstructed.

Its time to stop trying to patchwork the team. Its time to rebuild. Pridie is ok but should be a 4th or 5th OF'er on a contender at the very best. Turner has also looked good but can we wait until he up here for a big enough sample size before we crown him ROY or "the guy" that the Mets can count on. I feel the same way about Gee. He has looked very good, but can we wait before we start calling him our ace?

Your doing what many Met fans do.............. Hang you hopes on mediocrity. Hoping that one day soon....(its coming....I swear its coming) all things will work out perfectly. Last year you were raving about Tejada early on...then not so much...now again.

As far as the training staff goes - your 100% correct. Something is missing. Either the PR department is not giving us the facts on injuries and trying to soften the blow or the trainers are Mo, Larry, and Curly.

I started a thread about the Mets medical staff and Abraham Lincoln...I guess it didnt meet the BBF authorities approval because its gone, but it was basically poking fun of the routine that they go through.

**theAmazingMet** · 06-06-2011, 11:39 AM

I was loving it when Bobby V said all that. I'm frankly sick and tired of hearing how the Mets cant afford to keep Jose. The Mets can afford to keep him, and damn well had better, or the wilponzis will see what being poor really is!

Thank you ESPN (never thought I'd say that) for showing all the keep Jose fans on a national forum. All the ill will and angst of the last 4+ years will spew forth like Mt Vesuvious if they trade Jose. Trade Beltran and K-Rod, keep Jose, and David. Simple as that. Castillo and Perez' millions come off next year, as well as Beltrans, and if we trade him, K-Rods. There's your savings Mr Coupon.

**CokeMachineGlow** · 06-06-2011, 11:44 AM

Reyes doesn't deserve Crawford money, but he's going to get it. He also doesn't deserve 7 years, but he's going to get it. I'm not sure if Alderson is going to make such a huge commitment just to satisfy the fans.

**Shea Knight** · 06-06-2011, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by theAmazingMet

Thank you ESPN (never thought I'd say that) for showing all the keep Jose fans on a national forum. All the ill will and angst of the last 4+ years will spew forth like Mt Vesuvious if they trade Jose. Trade Beltran and K-Rod, keep Jose, and David. Simple as that. Castillo and Perez' millions come off next year, as well as Beltrans, and if we trade him, K-Rods. There's your savings Mr Coupon.

Exactly.

Reyes and Wright CAN be kept.

And if they're not...all Hell shall break loose...

**Paulypal** · 06-06-2011, 05:57 PM

Ok there have been threads and posts all over the place on this board about Jose Reyes staying or going. Alderson not wanting him...Wilpon not wanting him. How the Mets have to make him an offer. Its all been said, the arguments have been heard, the questions answered.

Every question but one.

Why would Jose Reyes forego his one and only shot at big time Free Agency to sign with the Mets?????

Before you put your Met cap on, and Jose Reyes jersey...think about the question.

He is 27 years old in the prime of his career or entering the prime. This is his one and only shot at a big time Free Agency and yet every Rah-Rah guy thinks that its the Mets right and Jose Reyes' obligation to remain a Met. I have read "there is no way the Mets can let him go"....."there is no way Jose can go anywhere". Really ....why not?

Does everyone on the Rah-Rah squad understand what the word "Free" means. Jose can have 3-4 teams bidding him up over the off season. He is the "cat-bird" seat for sure. He is having a career year (in a walk year....what a coincidence).

I as much as anyone want Reyes to remain a Met, but I am not silly enough to think "its just got to happen". It is a business decision and some of you are really clueless as to the business side of the free agent transaction.

A couple of things:

1) Some of you think he will give the Mets a hometown discount - Forget it immediately. Thats not happening. He has one shot at this and he and his agent will make it count. If some of you think he is bleeding blue/orange then your just lost in la la land somewhere.

2) Somehow the Mets will sign him before the seasons end. Ha Ha. Now its possible, that they could be they better bring the big checkbook and the pen with lots of ink. I dont know how players from the Domincan Republic say "look at Carl Crawfords contract", but in order to get it done before seasons end and make it look like they never were going to let him go, and that Jose never wanted to really be a free agent, thats what its going to take

Now some of you (I wont mention names Strawman, Shea Knight) talk like it MUST happen. Your dead WRONG. Arod left the Mariners, as did Griffey, as did Randy Johnson. You talke about three faces of a franchise that all left in short time..well there you go. We have seen players leave before for money. Please dont give me the NY market crap. The franchise is drowning. The investor - Einhorn - is just waiting for the body to die so he can take over.

It really is time to grow up and face reality and understand that baseball is a business and its not a business to quell the fans the way the Wilpons run it. Its a business to make money.

I would love Reyes to stay here but I know its not a MUST, and know its a business decision. In all reality.....if Reyes signs with the Mets before December,,,,then he and his agent are truly stupid. I hope they have a brain freeze and do it but I am not counting on it.

You can throw all the stats at me that you want it doesnt matter. You can talk about fans up on the bridge with their cute T-shirts chanting Jose it doesnt matter. The point is Jose could and should test the market.

**theAmazingMet** · 06-06-2011, 06:25 PM

He probably will test the market, but if we are offering on par with other teams I like our chances. If we lowball him, he can take big money elsewhere, and claim the Mets insulted him. This is about the only time I wish Omar was still the GM, because he would throw a blank check at Reyes to keep him in town. As hard as it is to say I think our chances wouldve been better keeping Jose with Omar as GM, than Sandy. I truely hope we keep him, simply because he is a top 3 SS in the game, at a very thin position.

**Paulypal** · 06-06-2011, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by theAmazingMet

He probably will test the market, but if we are offering on par with other teams I like our chances. If we lowball him, he can take big money elsewhere, and claim the Mets insulted him. This is about the only time I wish Omar was still the GM, because he would throw a blank check at Reyes to keep him in town. As hard as it is to say I think our chances wouldve been better keeping Jose with Omar as GM, than Sandy. I truely hope we keep him, simply because he is a top 3 SS in the game, at a very thin position.

I agree if the Mets offer on par...which means to me....matching the highest offer then the Mets can retain him.

I disagree that they had a better chance with Omar. Omar was responsible for Ollie, Castillo, Bay. He lost all credibility in my opinion. He needed to go because he was horrendous.

**theAmazingMet** · 06-06-2011, 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by Paulypal

I agree if the Mets offer on par...which means to me....matching the highest offer then the Mets can retain him.

I disagree that they had a better chance with Omar. Omar was responsible for Ollie, Castillo, Bay. He lost all credibility in my opinion. He needed to go because he was horrendous.

You actually are agreeing by saying he was responsible for those signings. You dont think he would overpay to keep Reyes? I highly doubt Sandy will.

**Paulypal** · 06-06-2011, 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by theAmazingMet

You actually are agreeing by saying he was responsible for those signings. You dont think he would overpay to keep Reyes? I highly doubt Sandy will.

No, my point was because he lost all credibility with his boss that he was no longer gaining accesss to the checkbook. I think Omar would suggest to overpay, but would get shot down. Sandy will not over pay.

**AJbaseball00024** · 06-18-2011, 08:02 AM

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/n...s-radar-061711

We are ******* doomed.

**m8644** · 06-18-2011, 09:26 AM

I hate to be a complete cynic, but if he changes agents and goes to Boras.........you may as well start talking about a replacement at Shortstop for Reyes.

**theAmazingMet** · 06-18-2011, 10:04 AM

We're #@&(%*). Bye Bye Reyes. Scott "the avenging agent" Boros will ask for the Earth, Sun, and Moon for Reyes.

**Paulypal** · 06-18-2011, 10:32 AM

First of all it was a very very long shot the Mets were signing Reyes without Boras. The ordds were off the charts not in favor of signing Reyes.

Now...not to tell you I told you so...but........again....

This is Reyes' last shot at a big free agent contract. He is going to be a very rich man and he plans on maximizing his earning potential. In that case Boras is a great hire - if it gets done. I too would hire Boras to represent me. Great potential move by Reyes....bad move for the Mets. Although if Reyes agent was Mr. Met it was still a long shot he ended up with the Mets next year.

All of this "the Mets must sign Reyes" by a couple of the forum members was really just wishful thinking. Everyone had to know it wasnt going to happen..more than likely.

Let this also end all the talk about Reyes wanting to be a Met. He was going to give the Mets a hometown discount. He bleeds blue and orange.....what a bunch of garbage. He is going to be bleeding green. End of story.

If Reyes hires Boras what we have to start talking about is:

1) do we trade him for prospects in July or
2) hold onto him and get the draft picks after he signs elsewhere.

What I am hoping is that the Met fans dont turn on Reyes and start booing him for his decision. His decision is an excellent one and if he were a family member or a good friend I would have advised him of the same.

**metfan13** · 06-18-2011, 10:36 AM

And that pretty much wraps up the Reyes talk. Have all the demonstrations at Citi that you like. You don't hire Boras to give a "hometown" discount. You also don't sign before exploring FA.

It's eaither a huge check in competition with others (Yankees?) or trade him for something useful. Unless waiting for a couple of draft picks to develop seems like a good idea.

**metfan13** · 06-18-2011, 10:37 AM

I wonder if Fred saying he'll never get Crawford money helped push him to this decision?

"Oh no, Mr. Wilpon? Watch this."

**Paulypal** · 06-21-2011, 04:38 PM

....and is told they wont negotiate during the season. I heard this on WFAN on the way home from work. Ed Coleman was discussing it and said that the Mets will have a small window to negotiate with Reyes before he files for free agency, but believes he is going free agent.

Everyone is saying the right things right now. Reyes saying he wants to be here for the remainder of his career. Well we shall see. I believe he does. I dont think Jose wants to go anywhere, but its going to cost a big dollar to make that happen.

If he was going to give a hometown discount he would have his agent negotiate with Alderson right now. It doesnt have to be a distraction because lets face it,,,,,the agent does most if not all the work during the negotiation. So as ususal this is going to come down to money.