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Thread: José Reyes Watch

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by m8644 View Post
    He is literally ON RECORD as saying that as long as Jose puts together a quality season like he normally does...he has zero issue resigning him. He's said that about 30583848383 times. As far as resigning him right now........He is NOT the owner....Our owner is borrowing money left and right just to pay for the electric bill right now. There's a VERY real possibility that he simply cannot sign Reyes at this moment due to budget contraints.........and since apparently you aren't quite understanding this....alderson DOES NOT set the budget....no GM ever does.

    I literally cannot comprehend someone killing Sandy for this reyes situation. His boss is under one of the biggest lawsuits in history, he had no money to spend this offseason at all, we are trying to borrow money just to cover basic operating costs of a ballclub........and somehow this means that our GM hates our shortstop because he hasnt resigned him yet????????
    Good luck trying to drill through concrete with a Q-Tip.

    The team is about to go belly up and Strawman wants the Mets to drop a 100 million........more specificallly he wants Alderson to take it out of his pocket and give it to Jose personally.

    It may be the most ridiculous thing I have read on this forum since I joined.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strawman View Post
    If trying his best means cutting Reyes loose, then yes, he's a disaster - he hasn't even made an offer or indicated he will.

    Enjoy Jose in NYY pinstripes.
    I have no confidence in Alderson. He was sent here to try to save Wilpon. Part of saving him means slashing payroll. I doubt it will work, but we'll see... Alderson's not here to build a winner. His interviews are so obviously dishonest I no longer pay much attention to them. When he starts dumping salaries at the trading deadline the personality cult surrounding him will dissipate.

    In any event, I'm not sure Alderson can be blamed any more than any other GM here. They've all had little power. Fred and Jeff always called the shots. Now Fred and Jeff's pending bankruptcy is calling the shots.

    Omar rebuilt the team in about 2 years to near championship level. Fred and Jeff never spent any money on the draft. Who did they have in the minors when he arrived? Omar went and found guys like Tatis and Dickey for major league minimum. Beyond a small cluster of big name free agents Omar didn't have much to work with.

    Jeff would give him exactly enough money for signing a Jason Bay in the off-season and nothing more. Jeff would tell him to sign Bay. Omar would follow orders. Omar would then have to slap a team together out of whatever retreads he could fish out of the garbage for Major League minimum. Whenever I hear anyone say Omar had resources to work with it annoys me. They were kept very limited by Fred and Jeff.

    Omar assembled most of the team on a shoestring. He wasn't nearly as bad as it seems popular to remember him. He overpaid for a few players, but not by so much that a New York team shouldn't be able to eat the salary. The team in the Bronx has handed out worse contracts and just keeps spending and winning. It's not Omar's fault the Wilpons were stingy about putting the Mets over the top, or are bad with money when they're not benefiting from a Ponzi scheme.


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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose View Post
    I have no confidence in Alderson. He was sent here to try to save Wilpon. Part of saving him means slashing payroll. I doubt it will work, but we'll see... Alderson's not here to build a winner. His interviews are so obviously dishonest I no longer pay much attention to them. When he starts dumping salaries at the trading deadline the personality cult surrounding him will dissipate.

    In any event, I'm not sure Alderson can be blamed any more than any other GM here. They've all had little power. Fred and Jeff always called the shots. Now Fred and Jeff's pending bankruptcy is calling the shots.

    Omar rebuilt the team in about 2 years to near championship level. Fred and Jeff never spent any money on the draft. Who did they have in the minors when he arrived? Omar went and found guys like Tatis and Dickey for major league minimum. Beyond a small cluster of big name free agents Omar didn't have much to work with.

    Jeff would give him exactly enough money for signing a Jason Bay in the off-season and nothing more. Jeff would tell him to sign Bay. Omar would follow orders. Omar would then have to slap a team together out of whatever retreads he could fish out of the garbage for Major League minimum. Whenever I hear anyone say Omar had resources to work with it annoys me. They were kept very limited by Fred and Jeff.

    Omar assembled most of the team on a shoestring. He wasn't nearly as bad as it seems popular to remember him. He overpaid for a few players, but not by so much that a New York team shouldn't be able to eat the salary. The team in the Bronx has handed out worse contracts and just keeps spending and winning. It's not Omar's fault the Wilpons were stingy about putting the Mets over the top, or are bad with money when they're not benefiting from a Ponzi scheme.
    With all due respect......taking the Wilpon's situation out of the equation......If you have "no confidence" in our front office that we have now.......the question must be asked, when exactly will you?........this is VERY easily the most talented and intelligent front office we've had since the Cashen days........I think even the biggest sane Minaya supporter would admit that the people we have in place now are simply better at their job, wilpon meddling or not. ......and I'd hope we can all safely agree that they are better than Steve Phillips and Al Harazin.

    The (hopefully) new owners would be doing a very bad thing to get a new front office
    "all the mets road wins against the dodgers this year have occured at Dodger Stadium"---Ralph Kiner

    "Blind people came to the park just to listen to him pitch"---Reggie Jackson, talking about Tom Seaver

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by m8644 View Post
    With all due respect......taking the Wilpon's situation out of the equation......If you have "no confidence" in our front office that we have now.......the question must be asked, when exactly will you?........this is VERY easily the most talented and intelligent front office we've had since the Cashen days........I think even the biggest sane Minaya supporter would admit that the people we have in place now are simply better at their job, wilpon meddling or not. ......and I'd hope we can all safely agree that they are better than Steve Phillips and Al Harazin.

    The (hopefully) new owners would be doing a very bad thing to get a new front office
    No I think the 'Goose is right about Alderson - his mission and his motives. And yeah, Omar comes in for too much blame that belongs with ownership. He built competitive teams and outside of a few bad contracts - and a terrible way with the media - was (is?) a good baseball man, especially on judging talent. I don 't agree that "the people we have in place now are simply better at their job."

    The reason it's Alderson's call this year on Reyes is just what everybody's been saying - the Wilpons are fighting the lawsuit, fighting to keep the team. Alderson is the regent to the incompetent king and his making all the calls. If he's good, he signs Reyes and tries to build franchise value. If he's bad, he doubles down on middle market restructuring a la Selig.
    Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strawman View Post
    No I think the 'Goose is right about Alderson - his mission and his motives. And yeah, Omar comes in for too much blame that belongs with ownership. He built competitive teams and outside of a few bad contracts - and a terrible way with the media - was (is?) a good baseball man, especially on judging talent. I don 't agree that "the people we have in place now are simply better at their job."

    The reason it's Alderson's call this year on Reyes is just what everybody's been saying - the Wilpons are fighting the lawsuit, fighting to keep the team. Alderson is the regent to the incompetent king and his making all the calls. If he's good, he signs Reyes and tries to build franchise value. If he's bad, he doubles down on middle market restructuring a la Selig.
    It all comes down to one simple thing.....if the Yankees decide they want Reyes, Jose will be a Yankee.
    Pure and simple. There is no way the Mets can get into a bidding war with the NYY right now. Hell, the Yankees could buy whoever and whatever they want. In 1988 who would have predicted that in a few years that Strawberry goes to the NYY, and that Gooden throws a no hitter as a Yankee and that David Cone throws a perfect game as a Yankee.

    Really I can see Reyes in the Bronx next year (and if the Mets are still in trouble in the future, I can see Wright swinging at those bandbox dimensions at YS...especially RCF)

  6. #26
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    I'd almost pay to see the response from actual professionals like Jeter when Reyes goes into his dance routine or vapor locks in the field.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by PVNICK View Post
    I'd almost pay to see the response from actual professionals like Jeter when Reyes goes into his dance routine or vapor locks in the field.
    The dances are fine and he's older now anyway, but i've always loved the enthusiasm. Vapor locks? Can't come up with any funnily enough....Reyes is the Tug McGraw of this era, just so happy to be playing the game. Very refreshing actually. Love Jeter as an athlete, but as a person he's a bore...dull as dishwater.
    Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Strawman View Post
    No I think the 'Goose is right about Alderson - his mission and his motives. And yeah, Omar comes in for too much blame that belongs with ownership. He built competitive teams and outside of a few bad contracts - and a terrible way with the media - was (is?) a good baseball man, especially on judging talent. I don 't agree that "the people we have in place now are simply better at their job."

    The reason it's Alderson's call this year on Reyes is just what everybody's been saying - the Wilpons are fighting the lawsuit, fighting to keep the team. Alderson is the regent to the incompetent king and his making all the calls. If he's good, he signs Reyes and tries to build franchise value. If he's bad, he doubles down on middle market restructuring a la Selig.
    AGAIN......ALDERSON DOES NOT SET THE BUDGET......You dont think it's quite possible that Sandy has orders right now to not make any huge money decisions until this whole lawsuit is more clear?????...Really man????????? You honestly think that Alderson....or any gm, can just do whatever they want and throw around big money contracts with no input from ownership at all???
    "all the mets road wins against the dodgers this year have occured at Dodger Stadium"---Ralph Kiner

    "Blind people came to the park just to listen to him pitch"---Reggie Jackson, talking about Tom Seaver

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by m8644 View Post
    AGAIN......ALDERSON DOES NOT SET THE BUDGET......You dont think it's quite possible that Sandy has orders right now to not make any huge money decisions until this whole lawsuit is more clear?????...Really man????????? You honestly think that Alderson....or any gm, can just do whatever they want and throw around big money contracts with no input from ownership at all???
    Exactly, and I am sure Strawman knows this. He just needs to bitch about something, so its Alderson. The funny thing is even if Alderson was brought in here to make the Mets a middle of the pack payroll team (which I seriously doubt) its still up to ownership. The GM is the baseball operations person, not the checkbook behind the operations.

    Again I have to believe Strawman knows this and is just being...well....he is just being himself to put it nicely.

    Strawman when you go to a restaurant do you blame the waiter if the prices are too high? Because that is exactly what your doing here. Your blaming the front man for what ownership has laid out.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulypal View Post
    Exactly, and I am sure Strawman knows this. He just needs to bitch about something, so its Alderson. The funny thing is even if Alderson was brought in here to make the Mets a middle of the pack payroll team (which I seriously doubt) its still up to ownership. The GM is the baseball operations person, not the checkbook behind the operations.

    Again I have to believe Strawman knows this and is just being...well....he is just being himself to put it nicely.

    Strawman when you go to a restaurant do you blame the waiter if the prices are too high? Because that is exactly what your doing here. Your blaming the front man for what ownership has laid out.
    Not at all.

    Let me ask you this - who do you blame for the Castillo contract? For the Perez contract? For the Beltran contract, the Bay contract, the Santana contract?

    Easy - everyone lays those at Omar's feet. He got permission from ownership, but those were his calls on strategy and direction. Same with Alderson, even if he's gotta go to MLB eventually. He can argue (but won't because he doesn't get it, doesn't see it) that Jose Reyes is a critical re-signing for the future of the franchise. So far, he chooses not to.
    Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by PVNICK View Post
    I'd almost pay to see the response from actual professionals like Jeter when Reyes goes into his dance routine or vapor locks in the field.

    That was allowed to happen. Also he is older and more mature and if he goes to a team that does not do that sort of thing then he won't. It's early and a lot could happen but imo I think the Yankees go after a FA Reyes (if healthy) and I also think they will be the front runners to get him. A healthy Reyes is a switching hitting Carl Crawford at a more important position. The Red Sox will be players but they just made Crawford (a corner OF) the highest paid OF in the game (helped along by a steak dinner from Cashman) and Adrian Gonzalez will be looking for an extension. The Phillies may also be interested as Rollins is also a FA I believe and you have to respect them as being an organization that will go the extra mile to win. I also think the whole Jeter signing and the way it played out was used by the Yankee FO to... 1. let Jeter know that he probably will not be ending his career as a SS and 2. get fan and other baseball people reaction. Not that that would or should be determining factors but good to know before you start messing with one of your all time greats.

    Hindsight but the mets may have missed out on trading Reyes to the Red Sox a couple of years ago The Sox were looking for a young SS to replace the trading of H. Ramirez. The mets probably could have gotten a Lester or Buchholz (among others). As for right now the mets just picked a bad time to become a small market team. They are in a tough position. They need Reyes to have any chance of getting people in the seats but they also have a Reyes FA staring at them down the road. If he has a bad year or gets hurt again..... less trade value. If he gets off to a great start and keeps playing great then his expected contract just gets bigger.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Strawman View Post
    Not at all.

    Let me ask you this - who do you blame for the Castillo contract? For the Perez contract? For the Beltran contract, the Bay contract, the Santana contract?

    Easy - everyone lays those at Omar's feet. He got permission from ownership, but those were his calls on strategy and direction. Same with Alderson, even if he's gotta go to MLB eventually. He can argue (but won't because he doesn't get it, doesn't see it) that Jose Reyes is a critical re-signing for the future of the franchise. So far, he chooses not to.
    ummm, Omar didnt have owners who were in debt up to their eyeballs and needed to borrow money just to literally have basic operating costs of the team. That's kind of a big difference there that you're leaving out.
    And for the 494853339393958338383rd time......Sandy has said he wants to resign Reyes....those were LITERALLY his exact words. Word for word. He wants to wait until after the season....he wants to see Reyes put up a true great season like he has in the past.....and not his pathetic .321 OBP season that he had (which we all think will be much better this season)......along with the fact that again, there is a VERY VERY real possibility that he cannot make a huge montary decision at this moment due to what is going on......and if that's the case, that's not something a GM can admit in the public eye (not just ours, but ANY gm) Whether you agree or disagree with that.....it is what it is.
    "all the mets road wins against the dodgers this year have occured at Dodger Stadium"---Ralph Kiner

    "Blind people came to the park just to listen to him pitch"---Reggie Jackson, talking about Tom Seaver

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strawman View Post
    Jose Reyes is a critical re-signing for the future of the franchise. So far, he chooses not to.
    You haven't posted any valid points to support this statement. Actually, you haven't posted any points at all!

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strawman View Post
    Not at all.

    Let me ask you this - who do you blame for the Castillo contract? For the Perez contract? For the Beltran contract, the Bay contract, the Santana contract?

    Easy - everyone lays those at Omar's feet. He got permission from ownership, but those were his calls on strategy and direction. Same with Alderson, even if he's gotta go to MLB eventually. He can argue (but won't because he doesn't get it, doesn't see it) that Jose Reyes is a critical re-signing for the future of the franchise. So far, he chooses not to.
    If Reyes continues his decline, the Mets would have to be idiots to re-sign him. The Yankees won't want him because they have an heir apparent to Jeter. I blame Omar Minaya for the Castillo and Perez contracts. I feel that he made a good move getting Beltran. Beltran helped us immensely over his 6 years. The jury is still out on Bay. Santana was not a terrible contract. The Mets needed an ace. They got an ace in Santana. Perez and Castillo were just terrible signings. Castillo had one good year (and people forget that year because of the pop-up drop). Perez won 15 games in consecutive years and then he began to spiral downward.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strawman View Post
    Not at all.

    Let me ask you this - who do you blame for the Castillo contract? For the Perez contract? For the Beltran contract, the Bay contract, the Santana contract?

    Easy - everyone lays those at Omar's feet. He got permission from ownership, but those were his calls on strategy and direction. Same with Alderson, even if he's gotta go to MLB eventually. He can argue (but won't because he doesn't get it, doesn't see it) that Jose Reyes is a critical re-signing for the future of the franchise. So far, he chooses not to.
    Your not getting this through your cranium................. The Mets have no money, The Wilpons are busted, Alderson was hired under that umbrella - as we found out later on.

    He chooses not to sign Jose Reyes? Cmon dude you cant be serious. They have no money. The owners may get handcuffed, the last thing on their mind is their dancing, million dollar smile light up the night sky (sorry Shea Knight) shortstop.

    First of all I dont blame anyone for signing Beltran or Santana....they were excellent signings at the time. Maybe they didnt end up that way but I wont lean on 20/20 hingsight. Beltran was a great player for the Mets and Santana was a true ace.

    Perez and Castillo were hideous signings from day one.

    So let me get this straight. The Mets blew up their line of credit, they borrowed 25 million, they tried to borrow more. They are involved in the biggest scam EVER, and Alderson is supposed to go to MLB and ask for 100 million to sign Reyes?

    Do you read what you type before you hit enter or just wing it? Wow.

    While we are at it, I think Alderson should put together 300 million and execute a sign and trade for Pujols right now. So thats 400 million he needs. I am sure Fred has that. Who else should we sign while we are playing with Monopoly money?

    Silly rabbit tricks are for kids.
    Last edited by Paulypal; 03-04-2011 at 05:13 PM.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by CokeMachineGlow View Post
    You haven't posted any valid points to support this statement. Actually, you haven't posted any points at all!
    He wont either. He is just going to blame Alderson again...................and again..........................and again because the Wilpons have no money.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strawman View Post
    Not at all.

    Let me ask you this - who do you blame for the Castillo contract? For the Perez contract? For the Beltran contract, the Bay contract, the Santana contract?

    Easy - everyone lays those at Omar's feet. He got permission from ownership, but those were his calls on strategy and direction. Same with Alderson, even if he's gotta go to MLB eventually. He can argue (but won't because he doesn't get it, doesn't see it) that Jose Reyes is a critical re-signing for the future of the franchise. So far, he chooses not to.
    Are you hard headed? Do you not realize that Alderson has NO CONTROL on this team's finances?! The person who sets the payroll for him is a man who is in the midst of a massive lawsuit where he could lose 300 Million to 1 BILLION DOLLARS, borrowing money from the league and from banks, trying to sell a minority stake in his team, and invested in the biggest Ponzi scheme in modern world history! Alderson has said over and over again that he wants to resign Reyes but at this point this team's finances are in complete shambles to the point where it will be impossible to give a guy like Reyes a big contract. Finally, Alderson is doing his best to clean up the mess of a predecessor who thought a certain pitcher, after a 2008 season where he went 10-7 with a 4.22 ERA, deserved a $36 Million dollar contract. Can we leave Alderson alone?! He has not even seen this win or lose a single regular season game yet and we have people ALREADY CALLING FOR HIS HEAD!
    Just call me a sports fan.

  18. #38
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    http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/mets/wilpons_may_need_all_out_NEfhfOZZddNJBXybA4obtM

    This article could be very true:


    Wilpons may need all-out fire sale to keep Mets

    By JOEL SHERMAN

    Last Updated: 9:17 AM, March 6, 2011

    Posted: 1:04 AM, March 6, 2011

    Fans hate fire sales by their teams. And Mets fans detest the Wilpons.

    So putting the two together would seem a worse idea than giving Charlie Sheen a microphone.

    But, really, it is one of the few gambits the Wilpons have left in trying to retain the team. This is not about endorsing Wilpon ownership. Because it probably would be best for the team and baseball if the Wilpons were to sell the club as a way to restore finances and faith in the Mets.

    Nevertheless, the Wilpons are fighting ardently to retain the team, and it would not be unique for an ownership in financial hell to make its costliest players available. For the Mets, that would mean not only the free-agents-to-be, Carlos Beltran and Jose Reyes, but also Jason Bay, Francisco Rodriguez, Johan Santana and, yes, even seeing what would be available for organizational icon David Wright.

    PROSPECTS COUNTDOWN

    Two executives heavily involved in major league finances said it would be wise for the Mets to reduce payroll dramatically; even to, say, the $70 million range as soon as the 2012 season. This hardly would solve all of the Wilpons’ financial problems because they carry hundreds of millions of dollars in debt before even learning their ultimate fate in the Madoff debacle.

    But the two executives felt even a stripped-down version of the Mets still would draw no worse than two million spectators to Citi Field. That would allow the Mets to make money, moving banks to feel less edgy about current loans and, possibly, even consider future loans.

    “That approach would be helpful,” one of the executives said. “Banks like to see operating profits over losses and it also would eliminate the need to plug holes in operating costs, which is what forced them to seek extra loans from Major League Baseball.”

    General manager Sandy Alderson already has said the plan for 2012 is to bring the payroll significantly down from the current $140 million-plus. Much of that will be achieved with expiring contracts for the Pariah Brothers — Luis Castillo and Oliver Perez — plus Beltran, Reyes and possibly K-Rod.

    But why stop there? The 2012 Mets are unlikely to be legitimate contenders with a $110 million payroll, so why not get the long-term benefits — for the talent base and the Wilpons’ finances — of going further? Here is the question: Are the Mets closer to being a champion by continuing to try to build around what they have or by starting over — with the head start that could come from adding prospects through a fire sale?

    The Mets long have conned themselves that they are just a player or two away from being of championship timber. But I don’t think any NL East team would trade all the players in their organization for those of the Mets. Even the Nationals can imagine their next three-to-seven years being better than the Mets’ simply by having Bryce Harper and Stephen Strasburg under control.

    The Mets do not have a veteran making significant money who is likely to be a member of their next sustained contender, except perhaps Wright. So why not speed up the process of getting to that next strong roster? Because it will upset the fans? Really? Can they be more upset than they have been the past two years?

    “Everyone sees the elephant in the room,” an AL executive said. “They need all the moons to align just to win 85 games, and all the moons are not going to align. It is time to get real. And this is the perfect time. The smart fans will get it. They understand that the talent level is not nearly good enough in the majors or the minors. They see what is happening with Madoff. A total renovation is needed.”

    It would be up to the new front office to create a reservoir of young talent by making strong trades, and then use some of the saved money to invest wisely in the draft and Latin America. The Wilpons have not had the discipline or intellect to stick with a rebuilding plan in the past. But what are their choices now?

    This is not a desirable path, but probably a necessary one. And $70 million payrolls for a few years do not mean having to stay at that austere (for New York) level for good. Also, remember that a team with a $60 million payroll that spent much of last year in bankruptcy, the Rangers, went to the World Series.

    For now, though, the Mets must hope Beltran and Reyes are healthy, productive and, thus, viewed as desirable commodities in July. Perhaps Bay and K-Rod can build value, as well. If Santana comes back healthy, it is conceivable that, for example, the Yankees would be willing to absorb a 2012-13 salary of more than $50 million.

    Wright is the toughest call. He is signed for $15 million in 2012 with a $16 million option for 2013 (or a $1 million buyout). Will the Mets win during the remainder of this contract? If he wants to stay, will Wright be worth a significant extension in his 30s? Or is his best long-term value to the organization as a desirable trade chip?

    My suspicion is the Mets would get no less, say, than Kansas City received in the offseason for Zack Greinke, especially because the interest would be heavy. I could see teams such as the Angels, Orioles, Braves, Marlins, Cubs, White Sox, Blue Jays, A’s, Cardinals, Brewers, Dodgers, Rockies and Giants all having interest Again, this is not a desirable path. But if these Mets owners really are going to keep the team, then all options need to be considered to make the long-term picture better than the current one.

    joel.sherman@nypost.com

  19. #39
    ahh yes, that noted baseball expert Joel Sherman....I always value his opinion.
    "all the mets road wins against the dodgers this year have occured at Dodger Stadium"---Ralph Kiner

    "Blind people came to the park just to listen to him pitch"---Reggie Jackson, talking about Tom Seaver

  20. #40
    Mandrake's right - this is the situation, and this is the job Alderson was brought in to do.

    It's extremely sad that we'll have to watch him trade off iconic homegrown talent - especially when you consider there will still be a club of Mets fans who think that "Sandy" is a "true professional" who knows what he's doing. That may be true - but what he's doing is what Selig hired him to do: take the Mets middle market to try and save the Wilpons, or failing that, set things up for a sale.

    Letting Reyes go is the symbol of this horrific new era - though Sherman may be correct in saying that trading David Wright would be worse. Don't be shocked if our pal Sandy goes that route....
    Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.

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