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Thread: BBF Mets Hall of Fame - Round One

  1. #1

    BBF Mets Hall of Fame - Round One

    IMPORTANT REMINDERS:
    - Ballot size remains the same for expansion era teams (i.e. up to 15 players and 5 contributors).
    - There must be at least 8 ballots cast in order for election to count.
    - Currently active players are not eligible.
    - The Rangers First Round Election is currently open and will end on Tuesday, March 8, 2011, at 4:00 p.m.
    - The Angels First Round Election is currently open and will end Wednesday, March 9, 2011, at 12:00 p.m.

    This election will close on Friday, March 11, 2011, at 2:00 p.m.

    PLEASE READ THE FORMAT AND RULES SECTION BEFORE VOTING. THANK YOU.

    FORMAT AND RULES

    Purpose: The purpose of this project is to create a Hall of Fame for each franchise whereby each franchise will honor those individuals whose contributions and accomplishments are most notable, significant, and enduring to that franchise's history. This project is not about simply honoring those with the best statistics with each franchise.

    Standards: Each franchise has its own unique history and context, and thus contributions and accomplishments that may stand out remarkably within one franchise's history, may not be so remarkable in another franchise's history. Standards from franchise to franchise will inherently vary, and thus there should be no impetus to create equal standards among the franchises or to aspire to the standards of the National Baseball Hall of Fame. Consequently, subjectivity within the context of the franchise in question will play an inevitable role when considering an individual's contributions and accomplishments with respect to that franchise. In sum, a franchise's Hall of Fame should be unaffected by the standards and contexts of other franchises as well as the National Baseball Hall of Fame, and should be entirely a product of its own history.

    Election Format: Elections will be conducted one franchise at a time starting in chronological order with the oldest continuously and currently operational franchise. Each election will last approximately seven days.
    - Ballot Size: Voters can select up to 15 players and 5 contributors per election. Ballots that exceed the maximum limits at the close of an election will not be counted. There is no minimum ballot size.
    - Ballot Editing: To account for ongoing discussion, voters may edit their ballots as often as necessary through the end of an election.
    - Election Percentage: Any individual that is listed on at least 75% of either the player or contributor submitted ballots will be elected to that team's Hall of Fame. In instances where an individual receive votes as both a player and a contributor, that individual will be elected if listed on at least 75% of ballots in either category or if the individual's combined vote total is at least 75% of the category with the greatest number of ballots submitted.
    - Subsequent Rounds: After an election has been performed for each franchise, a second round of elections will commence, again proceeding in chronological order. A third round of elections (and perhaps beyond) may also be held depending on interest.

    Eligibility:
    - Players: Players may be considered by any currently operational franchise for which they appeared and are eligible either immediately upon officially retiring or after having not appeared at any level of professional baseball for an entire season for reasons not due to injury.
    - Contributors: Individuals that contributed in other capacities to a franchise may be considered, including managers, coaches, executives, owners, and broadcasters, but not fictional characters such as mascots. Contributors that are still active may only be elected by their current employing franchise, and cannot be considered by prior employing franchises until no longer active (this does not apply to individuals who are employed by a franchise only in nominal and/or non-integral ways, such as in scouting, consulting, or public relations capacities).
    - Multiple Capacities: The totality of contributions and accomplishments with respect to a franchise are to be considered, and thus an individual can only be elected once by a franchise. For purposes of ballot size limits, an individual should be designated either a player or contributor based on what the voter perceives to be the individual's greater role with the franchise. An individual should not be listed as either a player or contributor merely to facilitate ballot space for the other category.
    - Relocations/Renaming: Franchises that have relocated and/or been renamed, may still consider and elect individuals that were with the franchise prior to the relocation/renaming.
    - Multiple Franchises: An individual may be considered and elected by multiple franchises.


    NEW YORK METS
    This election will end on Friday, March 11, 2011, at 2:00 p.m.

    Franchise History
    - Founded: 1962 (NL for entire existence)
    - Former Locations/Names:

    Titles
    - World Series Championships: 2 (1969, 1986)
    - Pennants: 4 (1969, 1973, 1986, 2000)
    - Division Titles: 5 (1969, 1973, 1986, 1988, 2006)
    - Wild Card Berths: 2 (1999, 2000)

    Helpful Links
    The following links are all courtesy of baseball-reference.com, baseball-almanac.com, and wikipedia.com, and may assist voters in determining an individual's impact on this franchise:
    - Franchise Almanac
    - All Batters
    - All Pitchers
    - Batting Leaders
    - Pitching Leaders
    - Most Common Positional Starters
    - Most Common Pitching Staff Alignments
    - Managers
    - Notable Owners and Executives
    - Notable Broadcasters

    Award Recipients
    - MVP Recipients (0):

    - Cy Young Recipients (4): Dwight Gooden (1985), Tom Seaver (1975), Tom Seaver (1973), Tom Seaver (1969)

    - RoY Recipients (4): Dwight Gooden (1984), Darryl Strawberry (1983), Jon Matlack (1972), Tom Seaver (1967)

    - Batting Triple Crown (0):

    - Pitching Triple Crown (1): Dwight Gooden (1985)

    Multiple All Star Selections (no adjustment for double selections for 1959-1962)
    Code:
    Rank 	Player			Selections
    1	Tom Seaver		9
    t2	Mike Piazza		7
    t2	Darryl Strawberry	7
    4	David Wright*		5
    t5	Carlos Beltran*		4
    t5	Gary Carter		4
    t5	Dwight Gooden		4
    t5	John Stearns		4
    t9	Keith Hernandez		3
    t9	Jon Matlack		3
    t9	Jose Reyes*		3
    t12	Richie Ashburn		2
    t12	Bobby Bonilla		2
    t12	David Cone		2
    t12	Sid Fernandez		2
    t12	Tom Glavine		2
    t12	Jerry Grote		2
    t12	Bud Harrelson		2
    t12	Todd Hundley		2
    t12	Ron Hunt		2
    t12	Howard Johnson		2
    t12	Jerry Koosman		2
    t12	Pedro Martinez		2
    t12	Willie Mays		2
    t12	Jesse Orosco		2
    t12	Rick Reed		2
    t12	Frank Viola		2
    t12	Billy Wagner		2
    
    * Player is currently active
    Notable Managers (with at least 300 games managed with this franchise or at least one pennant win)
    Code:
    Manager			Games		Win %	WS Titles	Pennants	Div Titles	Wild Cards
    Yogi Berra		588		.497
    Dallas Green		512		.447			1		1
    Gil Hodges		649		.523	1		1		1
    Art Howe		323		.424
    Davey Johnson		1012		.588	1		1		2
    Jerry Manuel		417		.489
    Willie Randolph		555		.544			1
    Casey Stengel		582		.302
    Joe Torre		709		.405
    Bobby Valentine		1003		.534			1				2
    Wes Westrum		380		.375
    Last edited by DoubleX; 03-09-2011 at 01:52 PM.

  2. #2
    Players
    John Franco
    Dwight Gooden
    Keith Hernandez
    Howard Johnson
    Jerry Koosman
    Mike Piazza
    Tom Seaver
    Darryl Strawberry

    I could also pretty easily be swayed to vote for any of the following: Gary Carter, Edgardo Alfonso, Cleon Jones, Rusty Staub, Mookie Wilson, Kevin McReynolds, Jesse Orosco, Sid Fernandez, Jon Matlack, Al Leiter, David Cone, Ed Kranepool, Tug McGraw


    Contributors
    Frank Cashen
    Gil Hodges
    Davey Johnson
    Ralph Kiner
    Bob Murphy

    I strongly considered Bobby Valentine, but went with the announcing duo of Murphy and Kiner.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    7,084
    Blog Entries
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    Tom Seaver
    Jerry Koosman
    Jerry Grote
    Bud Harrelson
    Rusty Staub
    Dwight Gooden
    Darryl Strawberry
    Keith Hernandez
    Mike Piazza
    Edgardo Alfonzo
    Cleon Jones
    Tug McGraw
    Mookie Wilson
    Jesse Orosco

    Gary Carter could be 15 or Matlack, Agee, Milner, Mazzili, Cone Darling, Sid etc. but for now it's open perhaps because I missed an obvious one.

    Contributors

    Joan Payson
    Frank Cashen
    Gil Hodges
    Bob Murphy
    Lindsey Nelson

    the first three seem indispensable which means unless you allow Murphy, Nelson, Kiner to go in as a one entry trio the active broadcaster misses the cut
    Davey and Bobby V miss the cut
    Herzog and anone else who ran the show from the mid 60s could get some recognition

  4. #4
    Gary Carter
    John Franco
    Dwight Gooden
    Jerry Grote
    Bud Harrelson
    Howard Johnson
    Jerry Koosman
    Jon Matlack
    Tug McGraw
    Jesse Orosco
    Mike Piazza
    Tom Seaver
    Darryl Strawberry
    Mookie Wilson
    Joel Youngblood

    Contributors:

    Frank Cashen
    Gil Hodges
    Ralph Kiner
    Bob Murphy
    Lindsey Nelson
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  5. #5
    Players:

    Wally Backman
    Gary Carter
    Sid Fernandez
    George Foster
    John Franco
    Dwight Gooden
    Bud Harrelson
    Keith Hernandez
    Howard Johnson
    Jerry Koosman
    Ed Kranepool
    Mike Piazza
    Tom Seaver
    Daryl Strawberry
    Mookie Wilson

    Contributors:

    Frank Cashen
    Gil Hodges
    Davey Jhnson
    Ralph Kiner
    Bob Murphy

    Player Queue:

    Tommy Agee
    Hubie Brooks
    Dave Cone
    Jerry Grote
    Lee Mazzili
    Tug McGraw
    Kevin McReynolds
    Rusty Sraub

    Contributor Queue:

    Joe McIlvaine
    Lindsey Nelson
    William A. Shea
    Mel Stottlemyre
    Last edited by jjpm74; 03-05-2011 at 08:09 AM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleX View Post
    I could also pretty easily be swayed to vote for any of the following: Gary Carter, Edgardo Alfonso, Cleon Jones, Rusty Staub, Mookie Wilson, Kevin McReynolds, Jesse Orosco, Sid Fernandez, Jon Matlack, Al Leiter, David Cone, Ed Kranepool, Tug McGraw
    It's hard to ignore how amazing Carter was while on the Mets. He was one of the main reasons they were as good as they were from 1985-1988.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by jjpm74 View Post
    It's hard to ignore how amazing Carter was while on the Mets. He was one of the main reasons they were as good as they were from 1985-1988.
    I was most torn on Carter. When I first got into baseball as a young kid, the Mets were for a few years my favorite team. It was during that '85-'88 period, perhaps the one and only time the Mets were able to eclipse the Yankees in popularity in New York. So given their success all the hype around them, it was hard for a young kid such as myself to ignore. Carter was actually one of my favorite, if not my favorite player on the team at that time. He team with Keith Hernandez to provide a necessary and valuable veteran presence which pushed the team over the top.

    That all being said, I look at the numbers now, and Carter's overall career with the Mets wasn't that impressive. Less than 2500 plate appearances is a pretty small sample size, and the 104 OPS+ isn't that great, especially considering the small sample size.

    All told, I'm still torn. He did have two big years with the team and was subjectively, a very important piece of the puzzle, but the whole of his career with the team isn't that impressive. I'll have to think more, but I might actually be inclined to add him at this point.

    As an aside, the Mets as a whole from that period have to rank up there as one of the biggest disappointments in the game's history. They did win it all in '86 and were back in the NLCS in '88, but this is a team that really should have won more and perhaps evolved into a dynasty. It was a prospect factory for several years, and the powers that be seemed to have an eye for making shrewd deals to import the right talent. Perhaps it was all the distractions of being successful in NY during the '80s, but this is a team that should have won more.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleX View Post
    I was most torn on Carter. When I first got into baseball as a young kid, the Mets were for a few years my favorite team. It was during that '85-'88 period, perhaps the one and only time the Mets were able to eclipse the Yankees in popularity in New York. So given their success all the hype around them, it was hard for a young kid such as myself to ignore. Carter was actually one of my favorite, if not my favorite player on the team at that time. He team with Keith Hernandez to provide a necessary and valuable veteran presence which pushed the team over the top.

    That all being said, I look at the numbers now, and Carter's overall career with the Mets wasn't that impressive. Less than 2500 plate appearances is a pretty small sample size, and the 104 OPS+ isn't that great, especially considering the small sample size.

    All told, I'm still torn. He did have two big years with the team and was subjectively, a very important piece of the puzzle, but the whole of his career with the team isn't that impressive. I'll have to think more, but I might actually be inclined to add him at this point.

    As an aside, the Mets as a whole from that period have to rank up there as one of the biggest disappointments in the game's history. They did win it all in '86 and were back in the NLCS in '88, but this is a team that really should have won more and perhaps evolved into a dynasty. It was a prospect factory for several years, and the powers that be seemed to have an eye for making shrewd deals to import the right talent. Perhaps it was all the distractions of being successful in NY during the '80s, but this is a team that should have won more.
    I was a little older but echo your sympathies on Carter, who seemed the missing piece when they got him in the winter of 84/85, and the team underachieving.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleX View Post
    I was most torn on Carter. When I first got into baseball as a young kid, the Mets were for a few years my favorite team. It was during that '85-'88 period, perhaps the one and only time the Mets were able to eclipse the Yankees in popularity in New York. So given their success all the hype around them, it was hard for a young kid such as myself to ignore. Carter was actually one of my favorite, if not my favorite player on the team at that time. He team with Keith Hernandez to provide a necessary and valuable veteran presence which pushed the team over the top.

    That all being said, I look at the numbers now, and Carter's overall career with the Mets wasn't that impressive. Less than 2500 plate appearances is a pretty small sample size, and the 104 OPS+ isn't that great, especially considering the small sample size.

    All told, I'm still torn. He did have two big years with the team and was subjectively, a very important piece of the puzzle, but the whole of his career with the team isn't that impressive. I'll have to think more, but I might actually be inclined to add him at this point.
    I was a big fan of the team around that time as well. (who remembers this silly music video?) Carter is the catcher I tried to mimic when I played baseball. Especially his snap catches where he went out of his way to try to frame the strike zone and stretch it a bit.

    One intangible about Carter is that beyond the offensive numbers, he was also a smart catcher who, along with Mel Stottlemyre, might deserve some credit for how well that pitching staff was. Gooden, Fernandez and Darling were all solid pitchers with or without a good catcher, but the Mets also saw pitchers like Aguilera and Leach enjoy a great deal of success during that period.
    Last edited by jjpm74; 03-04-2011 at 03:19 PM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Braves Country
    Posts
    808
    Players:
    Darryl Strawberry
    Keith Hernandez
    Rusty Staub
    Howard Johnson
    Mike Piazza
    Tom Seaver
    Dwight Gooden
    John Franco
    Jerry Koosman
    Sid Fernandez
    Al Leiter
    David Cone
    Ron Darling
    Tug McGraw
    Jon Matlack
    Contributers:
    Davey Johnson
    Bobby Valentine
    Gil Hodges
    Ralph Kiner
    Bob Murphy
    Chop! Chop! Chop!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    southeastern PA
    Posts
    14,921
    Blog Entries
    34
    Players:
    Edgardo Alfonzo
    David Cone
    Sid Fernandez
    Dwight Gooden
    Keith Hernandez
    Howard Johnson
    Cleon Jones
    Jerry Koosman
    Al Leiter
    Jon Matlack
    Mike Piazza
    Tom Seaver
    John Stearns
    Darryl Strawberry

    Not yet eligible:
    Carlos Beltran
    Jose Reyes
    David Wright

    Contributors:
    George Weiss
    Frank Cashen
    Gil Hodges
    Davey Johnson
    Ralph Kiner
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
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  12. #12
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalbright View Post
    Players:
    Edgardo Alfonzo
    David Cone
    Sid Fernandez
    Dwight Gooden
    Keith Hernandez
    Howard Johnson
    Cleon Jones
    Jerry Koosman
    Al Leiter
    Jon Matlack
    Mike Piazza
    Tom Seaver
    John Stearns
    Darryl Strawberry

    Not yet eligible:
    Carlos Beltran
    Jose Reyes
    David Wright

    Contributors:
    George Weiss
    Frank Cashen
    Gil Hodges
    Davey Johnson
    Ralph Kiner
    My exact ballot, minus Coney.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cougar View Post
    "Read at your own risk. Baseball Fever shall not be responsible if you become clinically insane trying to make sense of this post. People under 18 must read in the presence of a parent, guardian, licensed professional, or Dr. Phil."

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    3,321
    Players
    Edgardo Alfonzo
    Gary Carter
    David Cone
    Sid Fernandez
    Dwight Gooden
    Keith Hernandez
    Howard Johnson
    Cleon Jones
    Jerry Koosman
    Al Leiter
    Tug McGraw
    Mike Piazza
    Tom Seaver
    Darryl Strawberry
    Mookie Wilson

    Contributors
    Frank Cashen
    Gil Hodges
    Davey Johnson
    Ralph Kiner
    Bobby Valentine

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Moot Point
    Posts
    5,179
    Players
    Edgardo Alfonzo
    David Cone
    Sid Fernandez
    Dwight Gooden
    Keith Hernandez
    Howard Johnson
    Jerry Koosman
    Al Leiter
    John Matlack
    John Olerud
    Mike Piazza
    Tom Seaver
    John Stearns
    Darryl Strawberry
    Mookie Wilson
    *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! *** Also: Buck the Fraves!

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Baton Rouge, LA
    Posts
    2,077
    Players (15)
    Gary Carter
    Sid Fernandez
    John Franco
    Dwight Gooden
    Jerry Grote
    Bud Harrelson
    Keith Hernandez
    Howard Johnson
    Cleon Jones
    Jerry Koosman
    Al Leiter
    Mike Piazza
    Tom Seaver
    Darryl Strawberry
    Mookie Wilson

    Contributors (5)
    Frank Cashen
    Gil Hodges
    Davey Johnson
    Bob Murphy
    Bobby Valentine
    RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

  16. #16
    Players (15)
    Ed Kranepool
    Cleon Jones
    Jerry Grote
    Tom Seaver
    Jerry Koosman
    Jon Matlack
    John Stearns
    Darryl Strawberry
    Keith Hernandez
    Sid Fernandez
    Dwight Gooden
    Howard Johnson
    Al Leiter
    Edgardo Alfonzo
    Mike Piazza

    someday?: Reyes, Wright, Beltran

    others?: Harrelson, Staub, Carter, McReynolds
    more?: McGraw, Darling, Cone, Franco


    Contributors
    Joan Payson
    William Shea
    Gil Hodges
    Frank Cashen
    Dave Johnson

    others?: Donald Grant, George Weiss, Casey Stengel
    Last edited by Paul Wendt; 03-08-2011 at 07:39 AM. Reason: add... add... add

  17. #17
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Williamsport PA
    Posts
    3,116
    Meet the Mets... Meet the Mets...



    Tom Seaver
    Jerry Koosman
    Dwight Gooden
    John Franco
    Tug McGraw
    Mike Piazza
    Gary Carter
    Keith Hernandez
    Edgardo Alfonso
    Howard Johnson
    Bud Harrelson
    Cleon Jones
    Lee Mazzilli
    Rusty Staub
    Darryl Strawberry

    ---------------------

    Gil Hodges
    Casey Stengel
    Davey Johnson
    Ralph Kiner in Kiner's Korner
    William Shea

    -------------------

    Reyes and Wright are the best ever Mets at their position already....
    Last edited by Second Base Coach; 03-07-2011 at 06:59 AM.
    Your Second Base Coach
    If Rfield was a better stat, and actually measured fielding ability, we would not need Rpos.
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  18. #18
    Players (15)
    Edgardo Alfonzo
    Gary Carter
    Sid Fernandez
    John Franco
    Dwight Gooden
    Bud Harrelson
    Keith Hernandez
    Howard Johnson
    Cleon Jones
    Jerry Koosman
    Al Leiter
    Mike Piazza
    Tom Seaver
    Darryl Strawberry
    Mookie Wilson

    Contributors (5)
    Frank Cashen
    Gil Hodges
    Davey Johnson
    Bob Murphy
    Bobby Valentine

  19. #19
    >Meet the Mets... Meet the Mets...
    Step right up and beat the Mets?

    First the Knicks, then the Jets
    Baltimore beware the Mets
    :-(


    Above I have filled both ballots by adding Gil Hodges, Frank Cashen, and Dave Johnson as well as seven players. Even Ron Washington of Texas has a few votes. We seem to approach consensus that the managers of World Series champions belong in a team Hall of Fame and I think I will go along with that.

    Nevertheless Joan Payson is my first choice and I am surprised so see that she and Shea have almost no votes.
    This isn't ancient history like Adams or Apollonio for the Braves, McKnight for the Pirates, Somers for the Indians.
    Last edited by Paul Wendt; 03-08-2011 at 07:49 AM.

  20. #20
    This election is over. I started to post the results last night but my computer crashed, so I'll get them up again later. From memory, I believe we only elected the following seven players:

    Dwight Gooden
    Keith Hernandez
    Howard Johnson
    Jerry Koosman
    Mike Piazza
    Tom Seaver
    Darryl Strawberry

    I also remember that Sid Fernandez was a near miss, needing just one more vote. I hadn't started to tabulate the contributors, but I'll do that as well.

    EDIT: Here are the actual results:

    Elected Players (12 ballots submitted, 9 votes required for election)
    Dwight Gooden - 12 votes (100%)
    Jerry Koosman - 12 votes (100%)
    Mike Piazza - 12 votes (100%)
    Tom Seaver - 12 votes (100%)
    Darryl Strawberry - 12 votes (100%)
    Keith Hernandez - 11 votes (91.67%)
    Howard Johnson - 11 votes (91.67%)

    Elected Contributors (11 ballots submitted, 9 votes required for election)
    Gil Hodges - 11 votes (100%)
    Frank Cashen - 9 votes (81.82%)
    Davey Johnson - 9 votes (81.82%)


    Other Players Receiving Support
    Sid Fernandez - 8 votes (66.67%)
    Edgardo Alfonzo - 7 votes (58.33%)
    John Franco - 7 votes (58.33%)
    Cleon Jones - 7 votes (58.33%)
    Al Leiter - 7 votes (58.33%)
    Mookie Wilson - 7 votes (58.33%)
    Gary Carter - 6 votes (50.00%)
    Bud Harrelson - 6 votes (50.00%)
    Jon Matlack - 5 votes (41.67%)
    Tug McGraw - 5 votes (41.67%)
    David Cone - 4 votes (33.33%)
    Jerry Grote - 4 votes (33.33%)
    Rusty Staub - 3 votes (25.00%)
    John Stearns - 3 votes (25.00%)
    Ed Kranepool - 2 votes (16.67%)
    Jesse Orosco - 2 votes (16.67%)
    Wally Backman - 1 vote (8.33%)
    Ron Darling - 1 vote (8.33%)
    George Foster - 1 vote (8.33%)
    Lee Mazzilli - 1 vote (8.33%)
    John Olerud - 1 vote (8.33%)
    Joel Youngblood - 1 vote (8.33%)

    Other Contributors Receiving Support
    Ralph Kiner - 7 votes (63.64%)
    Bob Murphy - 7 votes (63.64%)Bobby Valentine - 4 votes (36.36%)
    Lindsey Nelson - 2 votes (18.18%)
    Joan Payson - 2 votes (18.18%)
    William Shea - 2 votes (18.18%)
    Casey Stengel - 1 vote (9.09%)
    George Weiss - 1 vote (9.09%)
    Last edited by DoubleX; 03-13-2011 at 04:48 PM.

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