This is our fifty-seventh election in this project. The entire rules follow.
This election will end at 11:59:59 PM EST on March 4, 2011.
The prior election, and the ballots of the 1991 voters, are in this thread
Researcher/advocate/mod
This is our fifty-seventh election in this project. The entire rules follow.
This election will end at 11:59:59 PM EST on March 4, 2011.
The prior election, and the ballots of the 1991 voters, are in this thread
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Researcher/advocate/mod
Rules
1) All BBF users in good standing may participate. However, if there is more than one vote being cast from any one computer or IP, it must be cleared in advance. Should there be unannounced multiple votes from the same IP, I will investigate the circumstances, and all user names involved may be barred from this project as a result, and all but one of the multiple usernames permanently banned from the site. I only anticipate exceptions for family members living in the same home, but I will entertain requests on other bases. Please note that I and the other mods who participate in the project have the capability of determining the IP from which posts come, and I for one intend to monitor same. I have had to deal with a single user manipulating a project with multiple votes, and I don't intend to repeat the experience.
2) Elections will require a 10 voter quorum. If we do not get ten voters and there are candidate(s) who would be elected no matter what the voters needed to make a quorum did, those candidate(s) will be inducted. Otherwise, no one will be inducted. Further, if we fail to elect a full complement of candidates for the ballot in question in two of any four consecutive elections, the portion(s) of the project failing to meet the election requirement will end. If, for instance, we're doing fine on the player end but not the contributor end, I would drop the contributor end under this rule.
3) We will start in 1936, just as Cooperstown did. For the first election (1936), voters will rank their top 20, taking 10. After that we will go to having voters rank their top 12 players. Points awarded 12-11-10, etc. We will take the top five through 1940, then top three players per year elected until 2010, then two per year. If a voter does not number his selections, I will try to get him/her to do so. If they do not do so before the end of the election period, I may in my sole discretion invalidate the ballot. I have included this provision in order to ease the process of recording the votes. On another point, I know, the 1936 backlog is huge--but that was a historical issue they couldn't avoid, so neither will we.
4) We will also have a contributor ballot, which will elect one a year through 1985, then one every three (3) years. Contributors will be ranked 1 through 5, with points awarded 5-4-3-2-1. Voters may choose to participate in either one of the ballots or both.
5) It is permissible to vote for a candidate on both the contributor and player lists.
6) You are allowed to change your ballot at any time the voting is open. However, if you change your ballot, you've got to notify me (jalbright) by PM or by a new post in the voting thread, or the changes likely will not be registered.
7) Players are eligible at the later of age 45 or the first year thereafter in which the player does not play. If the birthdate is not known, add five years to the first time the player misses a season and has less than 10 games the next season. There is an exception for early death, in which case the year of death plus two will be used if that yields an earlier date.
8) Contributors become eligible at age 65 or in the year of death plus two. whichever comes first.
9) Each election will run for approximately two weeks unless expressly altered by the project manager, contributors and players done simultaneously.
10) No one is excluded from being a candidate, regardless of the league they played in, except those elected in either the contributor or player ballots. At that point, they are removed from further consideration. If there are players who returned to the Negro Leagues or Japan after going to the majors, the departure from the majors will be their career end date for purposes of this project.
11) The standard for including a player on one's ballot is that the player must in the voter's opinion be among the very best eligible players (preferably the number voted on, but if a voter wishes to support someone they feel is 15th in a 12 person ballot instead of one of the top 12, it's too close for anyone to reasonably object. On the other hand, supporting the 25th best eligible candidate on a 12 person ballot is probably beyond the pale). I reserve the power to invalidate ballots which I do not feel are a reasonably knowledgeable, good faith effort to rank the players. One issue I am quite concerned about is that I do not want to see what clearly appear to be attempts to manipulate the ballot so as to elect a candidate. In isolation, I probably could live with this, but if it became a widely used tactic, the project would devolve into something I have no desire to be associated with. Moreover, I think that this position asks everyone else to cast legitimate votes so that you can manipulate the system to favor your pet candidates. I cannot accept that, as it strikes me as unfair to other voters. For example, you can't expect to favor even a legitimate HOF candidate like Bill Dahlen over Babe Ruth to get Dahlen elected without being asked to provide a reasonable justification for ranking Dahlen over Ruth. If you can provide a reasonable justification in that scenario, the ballot will stand. If not, you will be asked to make a change. I realize voters will sometimes have idiosyncratic choices, and I try to allow for that. However, a clear flouting of a consensus is apt to be met with a request that the ballot be justified pursuant to this rule. Certainly, a reasonable justification does not indicate in essence simply that you want Dahlen elected. Furthermore, if I invalidate multiple ballots by the same individual as failing to meet this rule, that individual will forever lose the right to have his/her ballots counted. Voters are encouraged to consider character, sportsmanship, and compliance with the rules and spirit of baseball in their rankings of players.
12) I will post lists of eligible players and contributors before each election. If you have a question about the eligibility of a candidate, please ask. I will provide a list of future eligibility dates as well.
13) My eligibility lists come from all persons in the BBF HOF, BBTF Hall of Merit, and Cooperstown, plus all persons getting a vote in a BBF HOF election in the past year and a half or in a BBWAA election. This is a relatively comprehensive list, and thus I must request that if you want another candidate included, you provide some justification for why said candidate is worthy of getting a vote in this project. The main area I think this might come into play is if a voter supports a person who was eligible for the final selections from the recent pre WWII or Negro League committees but not on my master list. That fact alone would serve as ample justification for putting said candidate on the list. We may learn more about Cuban ball or what have you and thus include others after a case is made for them, however. The contributor list is undoubtedly not as comprehensive, and this fact will be taken into consideration. For players, any request for a multiple time all-star in the all-star era will be approved. Players of that quality will generally be approved without much ado. However, when a player lacks that kind of qualification, I will likely ask for you to get a second from among our voters via a post in the current election thread. When in doubt, I will also require a second for suggested contributors. If a second is forthcoming, the player will be added. If not, the request will be rejected. I want to limit requests and seconds to players or contributors you actually might vote for.
14) Other than the sportsmanship and character issues, players are to be evaluated solely upon their play. I would prefer that if a player is qualified by his play standing alone that he be elected on that basis. However, a candidate may only be elected either as a contributor or a player, but not both. Contributors are the area where the entire body of work during his career in the sport, including his play, managing, scouting, executive, writing, broadcasting or other work in the sport is relevant. Contributors are to be ranked based on who the voter thinks is most worthy of induction into the Contributor group in this project.
15) Any ballot with two (2) or more spots unfilled with eligible candidates is invalid. In the event of the listing of ineligible names, I will try to notify the voter so that he/she can correct the ballot before the end of the voting period. If the change is made timely, it will count. If not, and there are two or more invalid names, the ballot will not be considered valid. If there is only one, the ineligible name will be stricken and all names after it on the affected ballot will be moved up one spot.
16) Any players listed beyond the 12th place for any ballot but the first (in which case it is 20th place) will be ignored. If more than one person is listed as tied for the last available place and the ballot is oversize, all names will be dropped, which may lead to the invalidation of the ballot.
17) Ties are not permitted in ballot listings. I reserve the right to invalidate ballots for use of ties in the rankings, be it within a single ballot or over the course of several ballots. If the voter does not correct such a listing voluntarily, except in the case of an oversize ballot tie for the last eligible place, if do not invalidate the ballot, I will choose the placement of the two "tied" candidates, generally preferring the candidate preferred by the other voters.
18) For any ties between candidates straddling the in/out line of selections, the first thing considered is the ranking of the candidates by the ballots cast. If there are more than two candidates tied, use a 2-1-0 or whatever is appropriate for the number of players tied system. If a voter does not list a candidate, he receives zero points in the tiebreaker procedure. Once one person separates from the tied group, restart with the remaining candidates until there are only as many candidates as the rules call for being elected. If they remain tied after this process, the candidate with the most votes received wins. If it is still tied after that, those with the most #1 votes as the next step, then the most #2 votes and so on to see if that breaks the tie. If not, we will induct all candidates who remain tied at that point.
19) One thing we're going to have to be aware of is the timeline in the case of at least a few contributors. Two which jump out at me are Buck O'Neill, 1976, and Branch Rickey, 1946. I intend to eventually vote for both men, but in 1946, Jackie Robinson was still in Montreal. Really, Branch should wait until at least 1947 after Jackie's success in the majors to get credit for that move. If you think Rickey belongs in the top 5 in 1946 without his role in breaking the color line, that's fine--but he shouldn't get credit for that important success until it actually happened. Buck O'Neill did some important things up until 1976, but after that he was in Ken Burns' Baseball and he was instrumental in the establishment of the Negro Leagues Hall of Fame (both occurred in or around 1994). If you think he belongs based on accomplishments before those two things, that's perfectly acceptable, but please don't credit him with them before they actually happened.
20) I will maintain a thread of the project's history and rules which will provide a listing of all elected candidates.
21) Feel free to ask questions by either sending jalbright a PM, or by posting a question in voting thread
Last edited by jalbright; 02-26-2011 at 05:08 AM.
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Researcher/advocate/mod
The players who become eligible in 1992 are:
On the contributor side, we add these names in 1992:Code:Bench , Johnny Boone , Bob Cruz , Jose Evans , Darrell Hebner , Richie Lowenstein , John Money , Don Singleton , Ken Tekulve , Kent
Tommy Lasorda
Vin Scully
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Researcher/advocate/mod
The 1991 player candidates who were not elected had these results in the that election:
The 1991 contributor candidates who were not elected had these results in the that election:Code:Player……………......... votes pts Sutton, Don........ 9 58 Mendez , Jose.... 9 55 Joss , Addie....... 5 47 Tiant, Luis.......... 5 43 Bresnahan , Roger 9 42 Torre, Joe.......... 7 41 Jennings , Hughie 8 40 Roush , Edd ....... 6 36 Rixey , Eppa....... 4 31 Grimes , Burleigh 3 28 Wynn, Jimmy..... 5 26 Brock, Lou.......... 3 25 Kelley , Joe......... 4 22 Brown, Willard.... 4 18 Sheckard , Jimmy 3 17 Berger , Wally.... 2 16 Beckley , Jake..... 3 15 Keller , Charlie.... 3 12 Richardson , Hardy 1 10 Smith, Reggie.... 1 10 Elliott, Bob......... 1 9 McVey , Cal........ 2 9 Aparicio, Luis...... 1 7 Howard, Frank.... 1 7 Lundy , Dick....... 1 7 Cepeda, Orlando... 1 6 Freehan, Bill........ 1 5 Gomez, Lefty....... 1 5 Rizzuto , Phil...... 1 5 Childs , Cupid...... 1 4 Rice , Sam......... 1 3 Bando, Sal......... 1 2 Perez, Tony....... 1 2 Yamamoto, Koji...... 1 2 Bancroft , Dave.... 1 1 Newcombe, Don... 1 1 Sewell , Joe........ 1 1
I strongly suggest that you pay attention to this list, as the leaders of the holdovers are likely to join any strong newcomer candidates as the leaders for winning induction.Code:Contributor……. votes pts Rizzuto, Phil 5 17 Greenlee, Gus 4 16 Caylor , O. P. 5 13 Harris, Vic 5 10 Caray, Harry 2 9 Elias, Al Munro 3 8 Evans, Billy 2 8 Ferguson, Bob 3 8 Chandler, Happy 2 7 Jobe, Frank 1 5 Krichell, Paul 1 5 Murnane, Tim 2 5 Abe, Iso 2 4 Martin, Billy 2 4 Smith, Red 1 4 Davids, Bob 1 2 McCarthy, Tommy 1 2 Murtaugh, Danny 1 2 Giles , Warren 1 1 Grimm, Charlie 1 1
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Researcher/advocate/mod
Members of the Best of Baseball Hall. Last election's inductees are in red.
Players
ContributorsCode:Hank Aaron Pete Alexander Dick Allen Cap Anson Luke Appling Richie Ashburn Earl Averill Frank Baker Ernie Banks Ross Barnes John Beckwith Cool Papa Bell Charlie Bennett Yogi Berra Akira Bessho Lou Boudreau Ken Boyer Dan Brouthers Mordecai Brown Ray Brown Jim Bunning Jesse Burkett Roy Campanella Rod Carew Max Carey Steve Carlton Bob Caruthers Oscar Charleston Fred Clarke John Clarkson Roberto Clemente Ty Cobb Mickey Cochrane Eddie Collins Jimmy Collins Roger Connor Stan Coveleski Sam Crawford Joe Cronin Bill Dahlen George Davis Dizzy Dean Ed Delahanty Bill Dickey Martin Dihigo Joe DiMaggio Larry Doby Bobby Doerr Don Drysdale Buck Ewing Red Faber Bob Feller Wes Ferrell Elmer Flick Whitey Ford Willie Foster Nellie Fox Jimmie Foxx Frankie Frisch Pud Galvin Lou Gehrig Charlie Gehringer Bob Gibson Josh Gibson Jack Glasscock Joe Gordon George Gore Goose Goslin Frank Grant Hank Greenberg Heinie Groh Lefty Grove Stan Hack Billy Hamilton Isao Harimoto Gabby Hartnett Harry Heilmann Billy Herman Pete Hill Paul Hines Rogers Hornsby Carl Hubbell Kazuhisa Inao Monte Irvin Joe Jackson Reggie Jackson Ferguson Jenkins Grant "Home Run"Johnson Walter Johnson Al Kaline Masaichi Kaneda Tim Keefe Willie Keeler King Kelly Harmon Killebrew Ralph Kiner Sandy Koufax Nap LaJoie Bob Lemon Buck Leonard Pop Lloyd Ted Lyons Biz Mackey Sherry Magee Mickey Mantle Juan Marichal Eddie Mathews Christy Mathewson Willie Mays Willie McCovey Joe McGinnity Bid McPhee Joe Medwick Minnie Minoso Johnny Mize Dobie Moore Joe Morgan Stan Musial Shigeo Nagashima Hal Newhouser Kid Nichols Phil Niekro Katsuya Nomura Sadaharu Oh Alejandro Oms Jim O'Rourke Mel Ott Satchel Paige Jim Palmer Gaylord Perry Eddie Plank Charlie Radbourn Pee Wee Reese Robin Roberts Brooks Robinson Frank Robinson Jackie Robinson Bullet Joe Rogan Pete Rose Red Ruffing Amos Rusie Babe Ruth Ron Santo Louis Santop Tom Seaver Al Simmons George Sisler Enos Slaughter Hilton Smith Duke Snider Warren Spahn Tris Speaker Victor Starffin Willie Stargell Joe Start Turkey Stearnes Harry Stovey Mule Suttles Ezra Sutton Bill Terry Sam Thompson Cristobal Torriente Pie Traynor Dazzy Vance Arky Vaughan Rube Waddell Honus Wagner Bobby Wallace Ed Walsh Paul Waner John M. Ward Willie Wells Zack Wheat Deacon White Hoyt Wilhelm Billy Williams Smoky Joe Williams Ted Williams Jud Wilson George Wright Early Wynn Carl Yastrzemski Cy Young
Code:Doc Adams Mel Allen Walter Alston Red Barber Ed Barrow Buzzue Bavasi Ed Bolden Alexander Cartwright Henry Chadwick Frank Chance Charlie Commiskey Charles Conlon Tom Connolly Jim Creighton Jack Dunn Leo Durocher Rube Foster Ford Frick Clark Griffith Ned Hanlon William Hulbert Miller Huggins Ban Johnson Tetsuharu Kawakami Bill Klem Kenesaw Landis Al Lopez Connie Mack Larry MacPhail Joe McCarthy John McGraw Bill McKechnie Marvin Miller Walter O'Malley Dickey Pearce Cum Posey A. J. Reach Francis Richter Branch Rickey Jacob Ruppert Frank Selee Ben Shibe Matsutaro Shoriki Billy Southworth Al Spalding Alfred Spink J. G. T. Spink Casey Stengel C. I. Taylor Kazuto Tsuruoka Bill Veeck George Weiss Sol White J. L. Wilkinson Harry Wright
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Researcher/advocate/mod
The complete list of eligible players:
The complete list of eligible contributors:Code:Adams , Babe Adams , Bobby Adams , Sparky Allen , Johnny Alou , Jesus Alou , Matty Alou, Felipe Altrock , Nick Aparicio, Luis Archer , Jimmy Arlett , Buzz Austin , Jimmy Avila, Bobby Bailey , Bob Bancroft , Dave Bando , Sal Barry , Jack Bartell , Dick Battin , Joe Bauer , Hank Beaumont , Ginger Beckert, Glenn Beckley , Jake Belanger , Mark Bench, Johnny Bender , Chief Benton , Larry Berg , Moe Bergen , Marty Berger , Wally Berry , Charlie Bibby , Jim Bigbee , Carson Billingham , Jack Bishop , Max Blackwell , Ewell Blades , Ray Blair , Paul Blass , Steve Blue , Lu Bluege , Ossie Bodie , Ping Boley , Joe Bond , Tommy Bonds , Bobby Boone, Bob Bottomley , Jim Bowa , Larry Boyer , Clete Bradley , Bill Brecheen , Harry Breitenstein , Ted Bresnahan , Roger Brewer , Jim Bridges , Tommy Brock, Lou Brown , Willard Browning , Pete Bruton, Bill Burdette , Lew Burgess , Smoky Burns , George J. Bush , Joe Bush , Donie Bush , Guy Cadore , Leon Camilli , Dolph Camnitz , Howie Campaneris , Bert Cardenal , Jose Cardenas , Leo Carrasquel. Chico Carrigan , Bill Carroll, Clay Case , George Cash, Norm Cavaretta , Phil Cepeda , Orlando Cepeda , Perucho Chandler , Spud Chapman , Ben Chapman , Ray Chapman , Sam Chase , Hal Chesbro , Jack Childs , Cupid Cicotte , Eddie Cissell , Bill Clark , Watty Clarkson , Bus Clift, Harlond Coakley , Andy Colavito, Rocky Collins , Shano Combs , Earle Conroy , Wid Coombs , Jack Cooper , Andy Cooper , Mort Cooper , Walker Cooper , Wilbur Courtney , Clint Cox , Billy Crandall , Doc Crandall, Del Cravath , Gavvy Criger , Lou Critz , Hughie Cross , Lave Crowder , Al Cruise , Walt Cruz , Jose Cuccinello , Tony Cummings , Candy Cuyler , Kiki Dandridge , Ray Danning , Harry Dark , Alvin Daubert , Jake Davis , Curt Davis , Harry Davis , Spud Day , Leon Derringer , Paul DiMaggio , Dom Dinneen , Bill Doak , Bill Donlin , Mike Donovan , Bill Dooin , Red Doyle , Jack Doyle , Larry Dropo , Walt Duffy , Hugh Dugan , Joe Dunlap , Fred Dykes , Jimmy Earnshaw , George Easter, Luke Edwards , Hank Ehmke , Howard Elberfeld , Kid Elliott , Bob Elliott , Jumbo Ellis , Dock Ennis, Del Ens , Jewel Erskine , Carl Evans , Darrell Evers , Johnny Face, Roy Fairly , Ron Falkenberg , Cy Ferrell , Rick Fingers , Rollie Fitzsimmons , Freddie Fletcher , Art Flood , Curt Fonseca , Lew Foster , Eddie Fraser , Chick Freehan, Bill Fregosi , Jim Furillo , Carl Galan , Augie Garver, Ned Gelbert , Charlie Gleason , Kid Gomez , Lefty Gonzalez , Mike Gowdy , Hank Grant , Eddie Grantham , George Grimes , Burleigh Grimm , Charlie Grissom , Marv Groat, Dick Gromek , Steve Grove , Orval Gustine , Frank Haas , Mule Haddix, Harvey Hafey , Chick Hahn , Noodles Haines , Jesse Hallahan , Bill Harder , Mel Hargrave , Bubbles Harrelson , Bud Harris , Bucky Harris , Vic Hatton , Grady Hearn , Jim Hebner , Richie Hegan , Jim Helms, Tommy Hemus , Solly Henrich , Tommy Herman , Babe Herzog , Buck Hickman , Jim Higgins , Mike Hiller , John Hinchman , Bill Hodges, Gil Holmes , Tommy Holtzman , Ken Hooper , Harry Horton , Willie Houtteman , Art Howard , Frank Howard, Elston Hoy , Dummy Hoyt , Waite Huggins , Miller Hunter , Catfish Hutchinson , Fred Irwin , Charlie Jackman , Will Jackson , Sonny Jennings , Hughie Jensen , Jackie John , Tommy Johnson , Bob Johnson , Davey Johnson , Judy Jones , Charley Jones , Fielder Jones , Sam P. Jordan , Tim Joss , Addie Judge , Joe Jurges , Billy Kaat, Jim Kamm , Willie Kawakami , Tetsuharu Kell , George Keller , Charlie Kelley , Joe Keltner , Ken Kerr , Dickie Kessinger , Don Killefer , Bill Kilroy , Matt Kinder , Ellis Klein , Chuck Kling , Johnny Kluszewski, Ted Knabe , Otto Koosman , Jerry Koyama, Masaaki Kremer , Ray Kress , Red Kuenn, Harvey Kuhel , Joe Kuzava , Bob Lange , Bill Lanier , Hal Larkin , Henry Larsen, Don Latham , Arlie Lavagetto , Cookie Law, Vern Lazzeri , Tony Leach , Freddy Leach , Tommy Lee , Bill Lee , Bill (Spaceman) Leever , Sam Leonard , Emil (Dutch) Lewis , Duffy Lewis, Buddy Lindstrom , Freddie Lobert , Hans Lockman , Whitey Lolich, Mickey Lollar, Sherm Lombardi , Ernie Lonborg , Jim Long , Herman Lopat , Ed Lopes , Davey Lopez , Al Lowe , Bobby Lowenstein , John Lucas , Red Lundy , Dick Luque , Dolf Lyle , Sparky Lyons , Denny Maglie , Sal Maloney, Jim Mancuso , Gus Manush , Heinie Maranville , Rabbit Marberry , Firpo Marion , Marty Maris, Roger Marquard , Rube Marshall , Mike G. Martin , Morrie Martin , Pepper Mathews , Bobby May , Lee Mays , Carl Mazeroski , Bill McAleer , Jimmy McCarthy , Tommy McCarver , Tim McCormick , Frank McCormick , Jim McDaniel , Lindy McDougald, Gil McGowan , Bill McGraw , Tug McInnis , Stuffy McLain , Denny McLean , Larry McMahon, Don McManus , Marty McMillan, Roy McNally , Dave McVey , Cal Meadows , Lee Mendez , Jose Messersmith , Andy Meusel , Bob Miksis , Eddie Milan , Clyde Millan , Felix Miller , Bing Miller , Dots Miller , Hack Monday , Rick Money , Don Monroe , Bill Moon, Wally Moore , Jo-Jo Moore , Terry Moran , Pat Mostil , Johnny Mota, Manny Mulcahy , Hugh Mullane , Tony Mungo , Van Munson , Thurman Murcer , Bobby Murphy , Danny Murray , Red Myer , Buddy Nehf , Art Nettles , Graig Newcombe , Don Newsom , Bobo Nicholson , Bill Niekro , Joe Northey , Ron O'Doul , Lefty Oeschger , Joe O'Farrell , Bob O'Leary , Charlie Oliva, Tony Oliver , Al O'Neill , Buck O'Neill , Steve O'Neill , Tip Orr , Dave Pabor , Charlie Pafko , Andy Pascual, Camilo Paskert , Dode Pearson , Monte Peckinpaugh , Roger Peitz , Heinie Pennock , Herb Perdue , Hub Perez , Tony Perkins , Cy Perranoski , Ron Perry , Jim Pesky , Johnny Petrocelli, Rico Phillippe , Deacon Pierce , Billy Pike , Lip Piniella, Lou Pinson, Vada Pipp , Wally Podres, Johnny Poles , Spotswood Porterfield , Bob Powell , Boog Power , Vic Pruett , Hub Quinn , Jack Raschi , Vic Raymond , Bugs Redding , Dick Reiser , Pete Remsen , Jack Reynolds , Allie Rice , Del Rice , Sam Richardson , Bobby Richardson , Hardy Ring , Jimmy Ritchey , Claude Rixey , Eppa Rizzuto , Phil Robertson , Dave Roe , Preacher Rolfe , Red Rommel , Eddie Root , Charlie Rosen, Al Roush , Edd Rucker , Nap Rudolph , Dick Ruel , Muddy Ryan , Jimmy Sain , Johnny Sanguillen , Manny Sauer , Hank Schacht , Al Schaefer , Germany Schalk , Ray Schang , Wally Schoendienst , Red Schreckengost , Ossie Schulte , Frank Scott , Everett Scott , Jack Selkirk , George Severeid , Hank Sewell , Joe Sewell , Luke Sewell , Rip Seymour , Cy Shantz, Bobby Sheckard , Jimmy Sherdel , Bill Shocker , Urban Short , Chris Siebert , Sonny Sievers , Roy Simmons, Curt Singleton , Ken Sisti , Sibby Smith , Earl Smith , Reggie Smith , Sherry Sparks , Tully Stahl , Jake Stanky , Eddie Stanley , Mickey Staub , Rusty Steinfeldt , Harry Stephens , Vern Stephenson , Riggs Stottlemyre , Mel Street , Gabby Suhr , Gus Sukeforth , Clyde Sutton , Don Sweeney , Bill Tannehill , Jesse Taylor , Ben Tebbetts , Birdie Tekulve, Kent Tenace , Gene Tenney , Fred Thevenow , Tommy Thomas , Ira Thomson , Bobby Tiant, Luis Tiernan , Mike Tinker , Joe Tobin , Jim Toney , Fred Torgeson, Earl Torre, Joe Torrez , Mike Travis, Cecil Trouppe , Quincy Trout , Dizzy Trucks , Virgil Turner , Terry Uhle , George Valo , Elmer Van Haltren , George Vander Meer , Johnny Veach , Bobby Vernon , Mickey Walberg , Rube Walker , Harry Walters , Bucky Wambsganss , Bill Waner , Lloyd Warfield , Frank Warneke , Lon Watson , Bob Welch , Mickey Werber , Billy Wertz, Vic West , Sam Westrum , Wes White , Sol White , Will Whitehill , Earl Williams , Cy Williams , Ken Williamson , Ned Willis , Vic Wills, Maury Wilson , Hack Wilson , Jim Wilson , Jimmie Witt , Whitey Wood , Joe Wood , Wilbur Wright , Glenn Wyatt , Whit Wynn , Jimmy Yamamoto , Koji Yerkes , Steve York , Rudy Young , Pep Youngs , Ross Zachary , Tom Zimmer , Chief
Code:Abe , Iso Ashford, Emmet Autry, Gene Bancroft , Frank Barlick, Al Berger , Sy Brickhouse , Jack Buck , Jack Bulkely , Morgan Busch , Augie Cambria , Joe Campbell , Jim Canel, Buck Caray, Harry Carrigan, Bill Caylor , O. P. Chandler, Happy Chylak , Nestor Conlan , Jocko Cooper , Andy Cummings , Candy Dark , Alvin Davids , Bob Dinneen , Bill Doubleday , Abner Dreyfuss , Barney Dyer , Eddie Dykes , Jimmy Elias , Al Munro Evans, Billy Feller, Sherm Fergsuon, Bob Fetzer, John Foster , John B. Fowler, Bud Fullerton , Hugh Giles , Warren Gleason , Kid Gonzalez , Mike Gowdy , Curt Greenlee, Gus Grimm, Charlie Haak , Howie Haney , Fred Harridge, Willie Harris , Bucky Harris, Vic Harwell, Ernie Heydler, John Hillerich , John Hodges, Gil Hodges, Russ Houk , Ralph Howsam, Bob Hubbard , Cal Hutchinson , Fred Jennings , Hughie Jobe , Frank Krichell, Paul Kuenn , Harvey Kuhn , Bowie Lanigan, Ernest Lardner , Ring Lasorda, Tommy Leavitt, Jr. , Charles W. Luque , Dolf MacPhail, Lee Manley , Effa Martin , Billy Mauch , Gene McCarthy , Tommy McGowan, Bill Mendez , Jose Mills , A. G. Mizuhara, Shigeru Moran , Pat Murnane, Tim Murtaugh, Danny Mutrie , Jim Navin , Frank Nelson , Lindsey Norworth, Jack O'Day, Hank O'Doul, Lefty O'Neill, Buck O'Neill, Steve Osborn , Frank Pasquel, Jorge Patkin, Max Pesky , Johnny Pompez , Alex Pulliam, Harry Ramirez, Felo Reese , Jimmie Rice, Grantland Richards, Paul Ritter , Lawrence Rizzuto , Phil Robinson , Wilbert Schoendienst, Red Scully, Vin Sewell , Luke Sheppard, Bob Smith, Red Stallings , George Street, Gabby Thayer , Ernest Tyson, Ty van der Ahe, Chris Warfield , Frank Weyer , Lee Wilson , Horace Wrigley, Phil Yawkey, Tom
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Researcher/advocate/mod
My ballot
Players
1. Johnny Bench
2. Jose Mendez
3. Luis Tiant
4. Hughie Jennings
5. Roger Bresnahan
6. Joe Torre
7. Jimmy Wynn
8. Joe Kelley
9. Willard Brown
10. Charlie Keller
11.Perucho Cepeda
12. Cupid Childs
Contributors
1. Phil Rizzuto
2. Vic Harris
3. Tom Lasords
4. Iso Abe
5. Al Munro Elias
Johnny Bench goes to the top of my ballot, and I'm adding Perucho Cepeda and Cupid Childs in the 11th and 12th spots. On the contributor side, Al Munro Elias enters the ballot. On the contributor side, Tommy Lasorda enters in the #3 spot, and Tim Murnane drops off the ballot for the time being.
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Researcher/advocate/mod
Perucho ("The Bull") Cepeda
This man is Orlando ("The Baby Bull") Cepeda's father. According to Jim Riley, many observers feel the elder Cepeda was the better ballplayer. This Cepeda never played in the states, as he was a proud man with a temper. He realized a black man with those traits could easily get into serious trouble in the States in those days, so he never came and played here, despite repeated offers. I don't even see that he played in Cuba or Mexico, which surprises me. Anyway, when the Puerto Rican Winter League started, he was already 32. He played shortstop, and according to William McNeil's Baseball's Other Stars, he was a good fielder. In his first five seasons in the Puerto Rican Winter League, Cepeda did the following despite quality opponents like Satchel Paige, Leon Day, Josh Gibson, Buck Leonard, Tetelo Vargas, Francisco Coimbre and Roy Campanella (I don't know if any of them were there all five years--but there were some very good ballplayers in the PRWL at the time):
Won two MVPs
Won two batting titles and finished third twice
Won three RBI titles and finished second once
was second in HR once
Led in triples once and was third once
was third in runs scored once and fourth twice
According to a book in Spanish by Jose Crescioni Benitez, Cepeda's totals for his first four years are as follows:
That sure impresses me. After those first four years, it looks like he tailed off due to age. He at least played in the Dominican Republic in the 1930's, including in that fabulous 1937 season when so many Negro League greats played there.Code:AB H 2B 3B HR avg slg 713 293 43 22 9 0.411 0.571
We can add to that this from AG2004:
Originally Posted by AG2004
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Registered User
01. Johnny Bench
02. Luis Tiant
03. Jose Mendez
04. Eppa Rixey
05. Wally Berger
06. Jake Beckley
07. Jimmy Wynn
08. Burleigh Grimes
09. Willard Brown
10. Addie Joss
11. Koji Yamamoto
12. Perucho Cepeda
01. Frank Jobe
02. Vin Scully
03. Tommy Lasorda
04. Phil Rizzuto
05. Vic Harris
Registered User
Players:
1. Johnny Bench
2. Jimmy Wynn
3. Reggie Smith
4. Bob Elliott
5. Roger Bresnahan
6. Jimmy Sheckard
7. Joe Torre
8. Hughie Jennings
9. Sal Bando
10. Cal McVey
11.Rabbit Maranville
12. Perucho Cepeda
Contributors:
1. Harry Caray
2. Phil Rizzuto
3. Bob Ferguson
4. O.P. Caylor
5. Tommy Lasorda
With 3 names daparting and only 1 strong newcomer on the player's side, Johnny Bench goes into slot one, Rabbit Maranville and Perucho Cepeda move into slots 11 and 12. On the contributor's side, Tommy Lasroda debuts in slot 5 with Iso Abe, Happy Chandler, Jocko Conlan, Candy Cummings, Al Munro Elias, Bud Fowler, Gus Greenlee, Vic Harris, Gil Hodges, Ring Lardner, Billy Martin, Shigeru Mizuhara, Lefty O'Doul, Red Schoendienst and Vin Scully all being strongly considered at this point.
In my consideration set on the players side are Jake Beckley, Chief Bender, Wally Berger, Max Bishop, Bob Boone, Willard Brown, Lou Brock, Cupid Childs, Hugh Duffy, Bill Freehan, Burleigh Grimes, Dummy Hoy, Catfish Hunter, Charley Jones, Fielder Jones, Joe Kelley, Jose Mendez, Thurman Munson, Graig Nettles, Don Newcombe, Tony Perez, Lip Pike, Jack Quinn, Sam Rice, Pete Rose, Eppa Rixey, Edd Roush, Wally Schang, Joe Sewell, Urban Shocker, Rusty Staub, Don Sutton, Luis Tiant Jr., George Van Haltren. Some may make my ballot, some may not depending on who we are looking at in terms of newcomers.
2004 & 2007
Players:
1. Johnny Bench
2. Addie Joss
3. Wally Berger
4. Jose Mendez
5. Luis Tiant
6. Roger Bresnahan
7. Willard Brown
8. Joe Torre
9. Hughie Jennings
10. Don Sutton
11. Edd Roush
12. Perucho Cepeda
Contributors:
1. Gus Greenlee
2. Tommy Lasorda
3. Phil Rizzuto
4. Vic Harris
5. Iso Abe
a posse ad esse
Players
1. Johnny Bench
2. Willard Brown
3. Joe Torre
4. Addie Joss
5. Roger Bresnahan
6. Don Sutton
7. Eppa Rixey
8. Jose Mendez
9. Edd Roush
10. Joe Sewell
11. Rollie Fingers
12. Luis Aparicio
Somewhat contraversial "old school thinking" additions to my ballot. Fingers is in anticipation of Goose Gossage, who'll be higher in the queue but not by far. Aparicio is an "if-then" selection following Nellie Fox; he is two spots behind Fox in my position players' queue. Of note, I have boosted the position of Jack Glasscock (elected, but would have been #2 in the position players' queue, three spots behind Aparicio overall). By association I have boosted Hardy Richardson (#12 in the position players' queue, in the crowd with Sam Thompson, King Kelly, and John Ward).
Among newcomers... Darrell Evans is #9 among position players just behind Graig Nettles. Ken Singleton is #33 just behind Chuck Klein (who I feel is a highly comparable player). Bob Boone just makes the bottom of the queue near Rick Ferrell. Kent Tekulve finds himself #21 among pitchers ahead of Sparky Lyle.
Contributors
1. Tommy Lasorda
2. Paul Krichell
3. Al Munro Elias
4. Billy Martin
5. Danny Murtaugh
Charlie Grimm falls off, though the queue is shortened a bit with the election of Frick. Grimm, Howsam and Berger are first in line. Scully would probably be my next announcer if I pick one.
September 16, 2012: The Losing Streak Ends
Bleed the Freak
1 Johnny Bench
2 Hughie Jennings
3 Don Sutton
4 Joe Kelley
5 Charlie Keller
6 Dick Lundy
7 Darrell Evans
8 Jimmy Sheckard
9 Phil Rizzuto
10 Jose Mendez
11 Jimmy Wynn
12 Don Newcombe
1. Johhny Bench
2. Lou Brock
3. Joe Torre
4. Don Sutton
5. Edd Roush
6. Frank Howard
7. Orlando Cepeda
8. Bill Freehan
9. Cupid Childs
10. Tony Perez
11. Dave Bancroft
12. Ray Dandridge
queing up now are: Darrell Evans, Pinson, Evers, Maranville, Leach, Reggie Smith and Tommy John to name a few.
1. O.P. Caylor
2. Red Smith
3. Billy Evans
4. Tommy McCarthy
5. Bob Ferguson
Vin Scully will be here as soon as one of these five gets in
carpe baseball
Players
1. Johnny Bench
2. Luis Tiant
3. Joe Torre
4. Jimmy Wynn
5. Don Sutton
6. Darrell Evans
7. Jose Mendez
8. Edd Roush
9. Roger Bresnahan
10. Reggie Smith
11. Willard Brown
12. Hughie Jennings
Contributors
1. Gus Greenlee
2. O.P. Caylor
3. Tommy Lasorda
4. Vic Harris
5. Al Munro Elias
"When you have no basis for an argument, abuse the plaintiff." -- Cicero
Registered User
1. Johnny Bench
2. Hughie Jennings
3. Charlie Keller
4. Darrell Evans
5. Cal McVey
6. Jose Mendez
7. Joe Kelley
8. Willard Brown
9. Jimmy Wynn
10. Leroy Matlock
11. Lip Pike
12. Jimmy Sheckard
OSHA-certified Moderator
1. Johnny Bench
2. Burleigh Grimes
3. Edd Roush
4. Addie Joss
5. Luis Aparicio
6. Don Sutton
7. Lefty Gomez
8. Jose Mendez
9. Hughie Jennings
10. Roger Bresnahan
11. Luis Tiant
12. Joe Torre
Contributors
1. Billy Evans
2. Gus Greenlee
3. Happy Chandler
4. O.P. Caylor
5. Vic Harris
Tom Tresh George Kell Mark Fidrych Bob Feller
Ernie Harwell Soupy Sales Alex Chilton Sparky Anderson
Joe Nuxhall Gary Carter MCA Emanuel Steward
Sonny Elliot Dave Brubeck Earl Weaver Stan Musial
Jonathan Winters Neil Armstrong Roger Ebert Anthony Zahler
Ray Manzarek
Researcher/advocate/mod
We have a quorum on the player side and 8 contributor ballots so far.
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Registered User
Players:
1. Johnny Bench
2. Addie Joss
3. Lou Brock
4. Jake Beckley
5. Jose Mendez
6. Edd Roush
7. Roger Bresnahan
8. Don Sutton
9. Joe Kelley
10. Sam Rice
11. Burleigh Grimes
12. Luis Tiant
Contributors:
1. Tommy Lasorda
2. Happy Chandler
3. Harry Caray
4. Phil Rizzuto
5. Vin Scully
Registered User
1 John Bench
2 Burleigh Grimes
3 Eppa Rixey
4 Addie Joss
5 Luis Tiant
6 Don Sutton
7 Ed Roush
8 Lou Brock
9 Rog Bresnahan
10 Hugh Jennings
11 Joe Torre
12 Jim Wynn
Researcher/advocate/mod
Next election will be a good one for holdovers. There's no new names for the contributors, and the player field isn't strong:
We have only one person who voted in the last election yet to vote in this one, Paul Wendt I will follow up with him if he hasn't voted by Monday.Code:Campbell , Bill Cash , Dave Cey , Ron Concepcion , Dave Enatsu , Yutaka Foster , George Garvey , Steve Harrah , Toby Jorgenson , Mike Kingman , Dave Rivers , Mickey Russell , Bill Yeager , Steve
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
a posse ad esse
Meanwhile I would encourage anyone who put forth a players' ballot to consider adding a contributors' ballot. We've been in danger of dropping that part of the project in the past and if Paul can't get to his computer in time, we won't make the quota this year.
Cey will probably be the highest ranked player from the upcoming class... Concepcion, Foster, Garvey and Harrah will also make my queue. Toby Harrah is the dark horse of the class... but his (lack of) glove really hurts his chances. But yeah, looks like next year will be a great chance to do some clean-up work.
September 16, 2012: The Losing Streak Ends
Researcher/advocate/mod
I made a slight tweak to the rules that will help keep the contributor ballot alive, at least it will for this election. What I have done is make the standard for putting a part of the ballot on the endangered list is a failure to elect a full slate rather than a failure to get 10 votes. That is, if a candidate is far enough ahead to be elected even if there were exactly 10 votes, assuming that the nearest candidate was #1 on all the needed votes and the leader was left off those mythical ballots. Thus, if a candidate is 6 or more points ahead on the contributor ballot in a 9 candidate ballot, we'd elect him, and the ballot would not be endangered as a result. Actually, if he's 5 points ahead and would win the tiebreaker even with the mythical vote, we'd meet this requirement.
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Registered User
I detest LaSorda but at this stage of the project,
Contributors
1. Vin Scully
2. Bob Ferguson
3. Tommy LaSorda
4. Gus Greenlee
5. Tim Murnane
Recently I have cast votes for or strongly considered Caylor, Davids, Elias, and Harris.
With Ferguson and Greenlee they make CDEFGH.
Researcher/advocate/mod
We now have a quorum on both ballots.
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
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