View Poll Results: My Candidate for the Greatest Team Ever

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  • 1926-29 New York Yankees

    9 15.25%
  • 1929-32 Philadelphia Athletics

    11 18.64%
  • 1936-43 New York Yankees

    12 20.34%
  • 1917-20 Chicago White Sox

    2 3.39%
  • 1910-14 Philadelphia Athletics

    0 0%
  • 1921-24 New York Giants

    0 0%
  • 1894-96 Baltimore Orioles

    1 1.69%
  • 1955-58 New York Yankees

    0 0%
  • 1949-56 Brooklyn Dodgers

    2 3.39%
  • 1949-53 New York Yankees

    9 15.25%
  • 1997-2002 New York Yankees

    3 5.08%
  • 1906-10 Chicago Cubs

    3 5.08%
  • 1970-76 Cincinnati Reds

    4 6.78%
  • 1988-92 Oakland A's

    0 0%
  • 1972-74 Oakland A's

    2 3.39%
  • 1976-81 New York Yankees

    0 0%
  • 1930's Pittsburgh Crawfords

    0 0%
  • 1930's Homestead Greys

    1 1.69%
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Thread: Philadelphia Athletics, 1928-1932

  1. #21
    great list(s) above

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by SavoyBG View Post

    These are based on standard deviations, meaning how much each team's runs scored and runs allowed exceeded the league norms. It is only based on regular season numbers. Once you throw in the post season it becomes very clear that the 1936-1939 Yankees were clearly the greatest team of all time.

    Your favorite team does not score all that well here, as the 1931 season was not all that great in standard deviations. The best that those teams do on any of these lists would be an 11th place finsih for the 1928-1929 A's on the TWO SEASON list.
    That kind of analysis underrates those A's teams, since they beat their pythagorean W/L record every year, sometimes by large amounts. In otherwords, they were a greater team than their stats suggest.

    1927 +4 wins
    1928 +1 win
    1929 +4 wins
    1930 +9 wins
    1931 +10 wins


    If they could have gotten it done against the Cards in '31, and managed to beat out the Yankees in '28, I might be able to see them as the best ever. But since they didn't, I must also go with those incredibly deep late 30's Yankees' teams of Gehrig & DiMaggio as the best ever.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SavoyBG View Post
    The 1936-1939 Yankees are CLEARLY the greatest team of all time. It's really not all that debatable. You can look at run differential over the 4 years, their 16-3 record in 4 world series, or whatever you want. They are easily the best team of all time.
    Wouldn't logic suggest that it would depend on the definition that one uses?

    Just as in our previous Greatest Player discussion, it would largely rely on which definition one chose to use. While many, even most people would probably agree with you, Bruce, on using a statistical definition, there will always be those who hold out for a more traditional definition, which is more subjective, and based on intangibles.

    For example, in my companion thread, the 1926-29 New York Yankees, I explored why that particular team initially became so imbued with fame. An intangible-laden definition, while perhaps too subjective to satisfy today's stat-based fan, is still embraced, and enjoyed by a small number of fans. Like me.

    But let's keep this a pleasant discussion, shall we? Alright?

  4. #24
    27 Yankees
    Lazzerri,Meusel were set ups for prime Ruth and Gherig
    Kinda scary

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshfan View Post
    27 Yankees
    Lazzerri,Meusel were set ups for prime Ruth and Gherig
    Kinda scary
    As is OBP machine Max Bishop setting up prime Cochrane/Simmons/Foxx. And he best defense and pitching in baseball didn't hurt either. And don't forget who dethroned that great Yankees' team in dominating fashion - even with prime Gehrig and Ruth and Combs, Lazzerri having his best year ever, and young Bill Dickey behind the plate.

  6. #26
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    Nobody can say for sure which team is the greatest. That's why it's such a fun debate.

    I'd like to see some more love for Frank Selee's Boston Beaneaters of the 1890s. They were a better team than the Orioles of the same era, IMO, and yet the Baltimores get all the love.

    I can't say as where the Boston club is the greatest of all time, but I'd certainly rank them above the Old Orioles -- even if McGraw, Keeler, etc. were more colorful.

    And although there's simply no way to quantify it, those Pittsburgh Crawfords clubs of the 1930s had some pretty impressive ballplayers on the roster, most of whom were in their prime. I'd throw them on my "all-time" list, just because of the eye-popping talent assembled, even though we'll never really know how good they could have been. But, man, you talk about ballplayers! They rival the Big Red Machine for sheer star power: Paige, Gibson, Cool Papa Bell, Oscar Charleston, Judy Johnson, Double-Duty Ratcliffe. That's a hellova team right there!!!
    "Hey Mr. McGraw! Can I pitch to-day?"

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victory Faust View Post
    And although there's simply no way to quantify it, those Pittsburgh Crawfords clubs of the 1930s had some pretty impressive ballplayers on the roster, most of whom were in their prime. I'd throw them on my "all-time" list, just because of the eye-popping talent assembled, even though we'll never really know how good they could have been. But, man, you talk about ballplayers! They rival the Big Red Machine for sheer star power: Paige, Gibson, Cool Papa Bell, Oscar Charleston, Judy Johnson, Double-Duty Ratcliffe. That's a hellova team right there!!!
    Don't forget the '31 Homestead Grays. Gibson, Charleston, Smokey Joe Williams, Bill Foster, Ratcliffe, Jud Wilson.

  8. #28
    No mention of a team that won 5 consecutive pennants, averaging 101 wins per season. 2 WS wins, of the 3 WS they lost, once they out-scored their opponent 55-27, were beat by a HR in the 9th. Another 7 game loss, they outscored the opposition 33-32, beaten by 2 runs in 7th game. They were swept in 4 games in one WS, but 2 of the games they lost by 1 run.

    The 1960-1965 NY Yankees.
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  9. #29
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    Another team I'd say might be in the mix would be those 1940's Cardinals teams. Certainly you've got to discount them because of the war, but they still had a very impressive run.

    1941 - 97 wins, 2nd place NL
    1942 - 106 wins, won World Series
    1943 - 105 wins, lost World Series
    1944 - 105 wins, won World Series
    1945 - 95 wins, 2nd place NL
    1946 - 98 wins, won World Series
    1947 - 89 wins, 2nd place NL
    1948 - 85 wins, 2nd place NL
    1949 - 96 wins, 2nd place NL (1 game out of first)

    And from 1939 to 1953 they never finished lower than 3rd place in the National League. And from 1941-1947 they never had an team ERA+ lower than 115, and led the NL in ERA+ every year but 1945 (when they finished a close 2nd).

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by mwiggins View Post
    Another team I'd say might be in the mix would be those 1940's Cardinals teams. Certainly you've got to discount them because of the war, but they still had a very impressive run.

    1941 - 97 wins, 2nd place NL
    1942 - 106 wins, won World Series
    1943 - 105 wins, lost World Series
    1944 - 105 wins, won World Series
    1945 - 95 wins, 2nd place NL
    1946 - 98 wins, won World Series
    1947 - 89 wins, 2nd place NL
    1948 - 85 wins, 2nd place NL
    1949 - 96 wins, 2nd place NL (1 game out of first)

    And from 1939 to 1953 they never finished lower than 3rd place in the National League. And from 1941-1947 they never had an team ERA+ lower than 115, and led the NL in ERA+ every year but 1945 (when they finished a close 2nd).

    I would take the 1942 Cardinals as the greatest NL team of all time.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by SavoyBG View Post
    I would take the 1942 Cardinals as the greatest NL team of all time.
    I'd probably still have to go with the '06 Cubs, but that Cards pitching staff was just unbelievably loaded. Cooper and Beazley were 1-2 in ERA+ that season (by a long shot - Beazley was 30 pts better than 3rd place that year), and their team ERA+ was 135. And they had two superstars on offense in Musial and Slaughter; as well as a rock solid defense up the middle with Cooper, Marion, and Moore.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by SavoyBG View Post
    I would take the 1942 Cardinals as the greatest NL team of all time.
    I don't even think any Cardinals team was the greatest NL team, and I don't think 1942 was the best Cards team
    Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
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  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by RuthMayBond View Post
    I don't even think any Cardinals team was the greatest NL team, and I don't think 1942 was the best Cards team
    Based on what?

    The 42 Cardinals had the best run differential ever for any non wartime Cardinal team, and they easily beat the mighty Yankees in the world series that year, and this was before the war depleted the ranks of MLB players.

    The 42 team was 106-48 led the league with 755 runs acored, and also led the league allowing the fewest number of runs with 480. They scored 275 more runs than they allowed. What Cardinal team do you think was better than them?

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by mwiggins View Post
    I'd probably still have to go with the '06 Cubs, but that Cards pitching staff was just unbelievably loaded. Cooper and Beazley were 1-2 in ERA+ that season (by a long shot - Beazley was 30 pts better than 3rd place that year), and their team ERA+ was 135. And they had two superstars on offense in Musial and Slaughter; as well as a rock solid defense up the middle with Cooper, Marion, and Moore.

    The league had to have been much stronger in 1942 than it was in 1906, plus there is the small matter of the world series. The Cubs lost to a bunch of no names and the Cardinals easily beat one of the greatest teams in history. Check the numbers on the '42 Yankees, they were a great team too.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by SavoyBG View Post
    Based on what?

    The 42 Cardinals had the best run differential ever for any non wartime Cardinal team, and they easily beat the mighty Yankees in the world series that year, and this was before the war depleted the ranks of MLB players.

    The 42 team was 106-48 led the league with 755 runs acored, and also led the league allowing the fewest number of runs with 480. They scored 275 more runs than they allowed. What Cardinal team do you think was better than them?
    I was thinking 1944.
    1) Their pitching was about equally as strong
    2) 42 Cards did not lead their league in adjusted batting runs (or OPS+), 44 Cards did
    3) 44 Cards had a better RATIO of Runs Scored/Runs Allowed than 1942

    so 44 Cards were best compared with their league, you can argue about the war stuff and I'm not sure how to allow for it
    Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
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  16. #36
    Musial has said that the 42 Cards were the best team he played on and as good as any ballclub he's ever seen.

    44 team had lost a couple of their best players to WW2, Slaughter and Terry Moore. He was before my time, but I've heard the old timers who saw him say that Moore may have been the greatest defensive CFer ever.
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  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by 64Cards View Post
    Musial has said that the 42 Cards were the best team he played on and as good as any ballclub he's ever seen.

    44 team had lost a couple of their best players to WW2, Slaughter and Terry Moore. He was before my time, but I've heard the old timers who saw him say that Moore may have been the greatest defensive CFer ever.
    I was talking best relative to their league. Otherwise you might consider the 98 Yanks
    Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
    Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

  18. #38
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    I'd like to offer this thread for your voting pleasure, for the recent visitors.

  19. #39
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    The following photos are from 1927-28 A's, mostly the 1928 A's. Connie Mack's strategy was to bring the savvy of experienced veteran players to impart their knowledge to his young players. It worked beautifully. He brought in Ty Cobb, Tris Speaker, Eddie Collins, Zack Wheat, Jack Quinn and coach Kid Gleason.

    Connie's Board of Strategy: 1927
    L-R: Kid Gleason, Ty Cobb, Connie Mack, Eddie Collins.


    March 22, 1927, Spring Training, Clearwater, FL
    L-R: Zack Wheat, Eddie Collins, Ty Cobb, Connie Mack.


    March 22, 1927: L-R: Eddie Collins, Connie Mack, Ty Cobb.


    March 12, 1927: Philadelphia training camp in Ft. Myers Florida.
    L-R: Kid Gleason, Eddie Collins, Ty Cobb, Zack Wheat, Connie Mack.



    Eddie Collins, Ty Cobb, Babe Ruth, Tris Speaker; April 20 1928, Yankee Stadium.


    Eddie Collins, Ty Cobb, Babe Ruth, Tris Speaker; April 20, 1928, Yankee Stadium.-----------------------Opening Day, 1928, Shibe Park.


    Lou Gehrig, Tris Speaker, Ty Cobb, Babe Ruth; Opening Day, 1928, Shibe Park. Yanks won 8-3.


    Lou Gehrig, Tris Speaker, Ty Cobb, Babe Ruth: Opening Day, 1928, Shibe Park.-------Ty Cobb, Babe Ruth, Eddie Collins: 1927 Opening Day, Yankee Stadium.


    1927 Opening Day, Yankee Stadium. L-R: Ty Cobb, Babe Ruth, Eddie Collins.


    1928: Ty Cobb, Tris Speaker, Eddie Collins.----------------------Al Simmons, Tris Speaker, Ty Cobb.------------------Al Simmons, Tris Speaker, Ty Cobb.


  20. #40
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    A homer pick, but I think the 1986 Mets were one of the twenty or so greatest teams ever.

    Greatest team ever? Probably the 1998 Yanks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cougar View Post
    "Read at your own risk. Baseball Fever shall not be responsible if you become clinically insane trying to make sense of this post. People under 18 must read in the presence of a parent, guardian, licensed professional, or Dr. Phil."

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