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Thread: 1926-28 New York Yankees

  1. #1
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    The 1926-28 New York Yankees

    Since I created a thread to the 1929-32 Philadelphia Athletics, I think it's only appropriate to create one to the team that so many consider the Greatest Team Ever.

    Everyone seems to enjoy all things related to Babe Ruth and the 1927 New York Yankees, so here's a thread to them, all their own.

    The 1927 New York Yankees originally gained fame due to their winning 110 games, winning their pennant race by 19 games and clinching by September 13. They beat their World Series opponents, the Pittsburgh Pirates, in 4 straight games. Quite impressive accomplishments, I will freely admit.

    Furthermore, they played in the most famous baseball stadium, in the most famous American city, with the most famous player (Babe Ruth), and all of that made them the most famous team. Their most famous player, Babe Ruth, created arguably the most famous record in sports, 60 home runs, which served as the benchmark of power for decades to come.

    The team also boasted 7 future Hall-of-Famers. Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Miller Huggins, Herb Pennock, Waite Hoyt, Tony Lazzeri and Earle Combs. The 1929 Philadelphia A's had 6; Foxx, Cochrane, Grove, Simmons, Collins, Mack.

    Their Legend continues to this very day.

    1926 Yankees---91-63, .591, 3 g ahead, (WS: L 4-3 to Cardinals)
    1927 Yankees---110-44, .714, 19 g ahead, (WS: W 4-0 over Pirates)
    1928 Yankees---101-53, .656, 2.5 g ahead, (WS: W 4-0 over Cardinals)

  2. #2
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    1924 New York Yankees; 89-63, .586, 2nd Place, 2 g behind---BB Ref---Player identifications provided courtesy of Gary Livacari (GaryL).

    Top, L-R: Benny Bengough (C), Joe Bush (P), Herb Pennock? (P), Ben Shields (P), Waite Hoyt? (P), Wally Pipp (1B), Babe Ruth (RF), Bob Meusel (LF), unidentified, unidentified, Oscar Roettger? (P).

    Middle L-R: unidentified, Wally Schang (C), Joe Dugan (3B), Aaron Ward (2B), Miller Huggins (Mgr.), Bob Shawkey (P), Whitey Witt (CF), Cliff Markle? (P), Walter Beall (P).

    Bottom, L-R: Ernie Johnson (IF), Lou Gehrig (1B), unidentified, Earle Combs (CF), Charlie O'Leary (Coach), Mike Gazella (IF), Milt Gaston (P), George Pipgras? (P).
    Eddie Bennet (Mascot).



    1926 New York Yankees; 91-63, .591, 3 games ahead, (WS: L 4-3 to Cardinals)---BB Reference---photo taken October 19, 1926.---Player identifications provided courtesy of Gary Livacari (GaryL).

    Top Row, L-R: Doc Albert A. Woods (trainer), Roy Carlyle (RF), Walter Beall (P), Ben Paschal (OF), Sam Jones (P), Earle Combs (CF), Babe Ruth (RF), Herb McQuaid (P), Hank Severeid (C), Lou Gehrig (1B), Benny Bengough (C), Bob Meusel (LF), Fred Merkle (1B), Joe Dugan (3B).

    Middle Row, L-R: Waite Hoyt (P), Bill Skiff (C), Dutch Ruether (P), Bob Shawkey (P), Charlie O'leary (coach), Miller Huggins (Mgr.), Aaron Ward (2B), Pat Collins (C), Urban Shocker (P), Tony Lazzeri (2B), Spencer Adams (IF).

    Sitting on ground: Leo Durocher (IF), Herb Pennock (P), Eddie Bennet (Mascot), Mark Koenig (2B), Garland Braxton (P), Myles Thomas (P), Mike Gazella (3B).



    1927 New York Yankees: 110-44, .714, 19 g ahead, (WS: W 4-0 over Pirates)---BB Ref---Player identifications provided courtesy of Gary Livacari (GaryL).

    Top Row: L-R: Lou Gehrig (1B), Bob Meusel (LF), Babe Ruth (RF), Wilcy Moore (RP), George Pipgras (P), Earl Combs (CF), Don Miller (P), Waite Hoyt (P), Tony Lazzeri (2B), Mark Koenig (SS), Urban Shocker (P), Cedric Durst (OF), Doc Albert A. Woods (trainer).

    Middle Row: L-R: Bob Shawkey (P), Joe Giard (P), Johnny Grabowski (C), Charles O'Leary (coach), Miller Huggins ( Mgr.), Art Fletcher (coach), Herb Pennock (P), Julie Wera (3B), Pat Collins (C).

    Bottom Row: L-R: Walter 'Dutch' Ruether (P), Joe Dugan (3B), Ben Paschal (OF), Benny Bengough (C), Myles Thomas (P), Mike Gazella (3B), Ray Morehart (2B), Eddie Bennett (mascot).



    Same player identifications as the photo above.


    1927 New York Yankees: 110-44, .714, 19 g ahead, (WS: W 4-0 over Pirates)---BB Ref---Player identifications provided courtesy of Gary Livacari (GaryL).

    Top Row, L-R: Lou Gehrig (1B), Herb Pennock (P), Tony Lazzeri (2B), Wilcy Moore (RP), Babe Ruth (RF), Don Miller (P), Bob Meusel (LF), Bob Shawkey (P), Waite Hoyt (P), Joe Giard (P), Ben Paschal (OF), unidentified, Doc Albert A. Woods (trainer).

    Middle Row, L-R: Urban Shocker (P), Joe Dugan (3B), Earl Combs (CF), Charles O'Leary (coach), Miller Huggins Mgr.), Art Fletcher (coach), Mark Koenig (SS), Walter 'Dutch' Ruether (P), Johnny Grabowski (C), George Pipgras (P).

    Bottom Row, L-R: Julie Wera (3B), Mike Gazella (3B), Pat Collins (C), Eddie Bennett (mascot), Benny Bengough (C), Ray Morehart (2B), Myles Thomas (P), Cedric Durst (OF).



    1928 New York Yankees; 101-53, .656, 2.5 g ahead, (WS: W 4-0 over Cardinals)---BB Ref---Player identifications provided courtesy of Gary Livacari (GaryL) and Bill Burgess.
    Pictured at Navin Field where they clinched the pennant, September 30, 1928.

    Top Row, L-R: Babe Ruth (RF), Tony Lazzeri (2B), Bill Dickey (C), Pat Collins (C), George Pipgras (P), Ben Paschal (OF), Mark Koenig (SS), Al Shealy (P), Bob Meusel (RF), Johnny Grabowski (C), George Burns (1B), Fred Heimach (P), Harry Mathews (coach), Lou Gehrig (1B).

    Middle Row, L-R: Doc Albert A. Woods (trainer), Joe Dugan (3B), Mike Gazella (3B), Charlie O'Leary (coach), Miller Huggins (Mgr.), Art Fletcher (coach), Benny Bengough (C), Gene Robertson (3B).

    Bottom Row, L-R: Tom Zachary (P), Cedric Durst (OF), Leo Durocher (SS), Eddie Bennett (mascot), Myles Thomas (P), Hank Johnson (P), Rosey Ryan (P)



    1928 New York Yankees; 101-53, .656, 2.5 g ahead, (WS: W 4-0 over Cardinals)---BB Ref---Player identifications provided courtesy of Gary Livacari (GaryL).

    Top row, L-R: Tom Zachary (P), George Pipgras (P), Pat Collins (C), Mark Koenig (SS), Fred Heimach (P), Babe Ruth (RF), Johnny Grabowski (C), Tony Lazzeri (2B), Bob Meusel (LF), Earl Combs (CF).

    Middle Row, L-R: Bill Dickey (C), Leo Durocher (SS), Harry Mathews (coach), Charlie O'Leary (coach), Miller Huggins (Mgr.), Art Fletcher (coach), Hank Johnson (P), Waite Hoyt (P), Cedric Durst (OF), Lou Gehrig (1B).

    Bottom Row, L-R: Doc Albert A. Woods (trainer), Mike Gazella (3B), Joe Dugan (3B), Eddie Bennett (mascot), Ben Paschal (OF), Myles Thomas (P), Gene Robertson (3B), Rosy Ryan (P).


  3. #3
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    In his book, Baseball's Golden Age: The Photographs of Charles M. Conlon, Charles Conlon had created a photographic portrait of some of the 1927 of New York Yankees. So, here they are. I hope they assist GaryL and Bmarlowe in conducting their identifying work for us.

    ------------------------------------Pat Collins--------------------------------------------------------------------Ben Paschal


    --------------------------------------------------Tony Lazzeri------------------------------------------------------------------------Bob Meusel


    ----------------------------------------Earle Combs--------------------------------------------------------------------Mark Koenig


    --------------------------------Joe Dugan-------------------------------------------------------------------Benny Bengough (not a Conlon)----------------------Benny Bengough


    -------------------------------------------Babe Ruth-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Lou Gehrig



    The Miller Huggins images are not Conlons.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------Leo Durocher (Conlon)


    ----------Wally Pipp (only a 1915-25 Yankee, but still a Conlon)-------------------------Julian Wera----------------------------------George Pipgras


  4. #4
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    A's/Yankees:

    The late 20's A's vs. Yankees rivalry is one of the fun subjects for me. The Yanks hit their high water mark in 1927, the A's in 1929. Both teams merit all time status. They were extremely fierce rivals. Much like the Red Sox/Yankees of today.

    1927 Yankees - 110-44 - .714 - 19 games ahead of Phil.
    1929 A's----- - 104-46 - .693 - 18 games ahead of Yanks.

    1927 Yankees' Hall of Famers - Ruth, Gehrig, Pennock, Lazzeri, Combs, Hoyt, Huggins,
    1929 A's Hall of Famers----- - Foxx, Cochrane, Grove, Simmons, Collins, Mack,

    Mack/Ruppert were exceedingly determined men. Ruppert had the edge financially. I'd like to insert a few sentences from my Ty as Manager article, which I warehouse in Ty Cobb Thread. It's only a couple of paragraphs.
    --------------------
    Another critical issue that one must look at is how much a team invests to keep improving. Certain other teams were going all out to bolster their clubs. For example, in NY, Jake Ruppert was conducting operations like a mad scientist. He brought almost the entire Red Sox team to NY. Ruppert was serious about his club. In pitchers alone, he raided these from Boston: Carl Mays, Herb Pennock, Sam Jones, Waite Hoyt, Joe Bush, Ernie Shore. He also raided shortstop Everett Scott, catcher Wally Schang, left fielder Duffy Lewis. These alone will win you a pennant.

    When the '25 Yankees collapsed to 7th place, Huggins and Barrow got rid of some players and started their '26 spring training with others. While Ty was making do with the scraps from other teams leftovers, Jake Ruppert was just barely beginning to flex his wallet. During Ty's days managing the Tigers, Jake Ruppert armed his Yankee dugout with Lou Gehrig, Tony Lazzeri, Bob Meusel, Earl Combs, Marty Koenig, Joe Dugan, as well as the championship Red Sox team from '15-18. Jake was intent on making his team the envy of Balldom.

    Meanwhile, over in Philadelphia, hardly less earnest activity was in progress to meet the Yankees challenge on even terms. Mack suddenly was spending like Ruppert in an exclusive men's clothing shop. Mack & Ruppert turned the '20's into dueling checkbooks, & neither were bouncing any checks. Over in Philly, Mack was rebuilding & Connie wasn't kidding. In '21 he got Eddie Rommel, in '22, Bing Miller & Joe Hauser, '23 Rube Walberg, in '24, he got Al Simmons & Max Bishop.

    For 1925, he picked up Grove, Cochrane, Foxx, veteran pitcher Jack Quinn. For '26, he got shortstop Billy Wambsganss and vet pitcher Howard Ehmke, whom Ty had discarded after '22. These players proved that Connie wasn't fooling about bringing pennants home. He paid $100K for Grove in 10 installments, $50K for Cochrane( plus $150K invested in Portland team, just to sign Cochrane). These were major moves.

    Both these teams, the 20's Yankees and Phil. A's were only 2 of the teams that Ty's men had to face on the open battlefield. Coping with 2 of the greatest baseball teams of history, is utterly germane to whether Ty was a good manager. To this day, most of the most respected, authoritative baseball minds consider the '29-31 Phil. A's & the '26-28 Yankees as 2 of the very finest baseball teams in all-around balance, that ever played the game.
    --------------------------------------
    Back to basics.

    Here I'd like to show the results of the Yanks/A's rivalry for the era.

    -------------A's-Yanks---------------Shibe---Yankee S.
    1926----------13-9--------------------5-6----------8-3
    1927-----------8-14-------------------5-6----------3-8
    1928-----------6-16-------------------2-9----------4-7
    1929----------14-8--------------------7-4----------7-4
    1930----------12-10------------------12-10---------5-6
    1931----------11-11-------------------7-4----------4-7
    1932-----------8-14-------------------6-5----------2-9
    totals-------82-72-1----------------39-38-------33-44
    (numbers taken from baseball-reference)

    ----------Earle Combs, 1924


    ---------Benny Bengough, 1924


    --------------Waite Hoyte, 1924


    -----------Pat Collins, 1924


    ------------Herb Pennock, 1923-33


    1927 Yankee catchers: Pat Collins, Benny Bengough, Johnny Grabowski.


    1928 New York Yankees; 101-53, .656, 2.5 g ahead, (WS: W 4-0 over Cardinals)---BB Reference

    1928 Yankees' infielders: Leo Durocher, Lou Gehrig, Tony Lazzeri, Joe Dugan, Mike Gazella, Gene Robertson, Mark Koenig.


  5. #5
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    Weak Sisters:

    One of my past posts, concerned the issue of lack of competitive balance in eras past (1900-1930). Here was the thrust of my argument.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    10. Another important factor in attracting the fans to come out is to have attractive, competitive teams, featuring good players.

    Around the turn of the century, BB lacked competitive balance. In the AL, the Browns, Senators, Highlanders, were the weak sisters in the league, upon whom the others beat up on. It was hard for those teams to compete for fans.

    In the NL, the Phillies, Braves, Dodgers, Reds, Cards were the weak sisters. The Cubs, Giants, Pirates, were the strong brothers.

    And that lack of competitive balance contributed to low attendance. Plus the lack of stars to go all the way around. There were no good stadiums until the Pirates built Forbes Field in '09. First modern steel/concrete park.

    To summarize: A fan in 1905 Pittsburgh/Detroit had little money to go to a game, which were only held in afternoons, where he'd sit on wooden stands, which held around 15,000 fans, enjoyed primitive concessions facilities, had to fight rush hour traffic to get home.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Jeffrey made response to my above argument:

    Weak sisters? Anyone heard of Tampa Bay, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, Montreal, Kansas City, Texas for the most part. Strong teams? Anyone heard of the Yanks, Braves, Twins, Oakland, Boston?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In order to bolster my arguing points, I'd like to submit the following data.
    An example of the lack of competitive balance in a league is demonstated by the following data.

    Code:
    1927 New York Yankees------------------1929 Philadelphia Athletics
    St. Louis Browns------21-1----.955-----Boston Red Sox--------18-4---.818
    Boston Red Sox--------18-4----.818-----Detroit Tigers--------18-4---.818
    Chicago White Sox-----17-5----.773-----Washington Senators---16-4---.800
    Philadelphia A's------14-8----.636-----Cleveland Indians-----14-7---.667
    Detroit Tigers--------14-8----.636-----New York Yankees------14-8---.636
    Washington Senators---14-8----.636-----Chicago White Sox-----13-9---.591
    Cleveland Indians-----12-10---.545-----St. Louis Browns------11-10--.524
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    So, this is an example of the lack of competitive balance, which rendered it difficult for the bottom weak sisters to draw on their fan base.

    One of the reasons why I always resist singing the praises of the High & Mighty 1927 New York Yankees, is because as one can see at a glance, they were able to roll up the score on a league which had a team which couldn't defend themselves that yr. So the Yanks were able to appear like gods, and finish 19 games ahead due to the extreme weakness of the Brownies, BoSox and White Sox, not because they were gods. So much for hype.

    Curiously, 2 yrs. later, the Brownies were the hardest team for the mighty A's to beat up, but they also beat the snot out of the 3 weak sisters in the league.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    1927 Yankees Pitchers/1929 Athletics Pitchers:

    Now that we've all agreed that a pitcher's W-L record is so team-dependent, as to be devoid of all meaning in showing a pitcher's value, I think the next stat to go into the rubbish bin, would have to be his team's W-L record without him.

    Example: Pitchers on teams which win over 100 games, obviously have some other good pitchers. 1927 Yanks & the 1929 Athletics had:

    Code:
    1927 NY Yankees pitchers-------------1929 Philadelphia Athletics pitchers
    Waite Hoyt,-----22-7, 146 ERA+-------Lefty Grove,      20-6,  151 ERA+
    Urban Shocker,--18-6, 136 ERA+-------George Earnshaw,  24-8,  129 ERA+
    Wilcy Moore,----19-7, 169 ERA+-------Rube Walberg,     18-11, 118 ERA+
    Herb Pennock,---19-8, 128 ERA+-------Ed Rommel,        12-2,  149 ERA+
    Dutch Ruether,--13-6, 113 ERA+-------Bill Shores,      11-6,  118 ERA+
    George Pipgras--10-3,  94 ERA+-------Jack Quinn,       11-9,  107 ERA+
    Myles Thomas-----7-4,  79 ERA+-------Howard Ehmke,      7-2,  129 ERA+
    Bob Shawkey------2-3, 133 ERA+
    Their hitting got them runs, but great pitching/defense suppressed the other teams runs-producing potential. So it wasn't all done with offense alone. But team W-L minus pitchers record, makes it appear their team won their games for them, which is a very insideous half-truth. It was mutually beneficial.

    Of what real value can it have, since it so utterly favors pitchers on weak teams (Young, Johnson, Alexander, Carlton, Vance), while it makes pitchers on strong teams (Matty, Brown, Ford, Grove, Pennock, Hoyt, Shawkey) appear good only due to team strength. Team WPCT minus the pitcher's W-L PCT. gotta go, guys.

    1921 New York Yankees; 98-55, .641, 4.5 g ahead, (WS: L 5-3 to Giants)---BB Ref---Polo Grounds, New York, October 2, 1921.---Player identifications provided courtesy of Gary Livacari (GaryL).

    Top Row, L-R: Jack Quinn (P), Tom Rogers (P), Alex Ferguson (P), Elmer Miller (CF), Mike McNally (3B), Rip Collins (P), Bill Piercy (P), Frank Baker (3B), Harry Harper (P), Lew Devormer (C), Fred 'Bootnose' Hoffman (C), Bob Meusel (RF), Bobby Roth (OF).

    Middle Row, L-R: Aaron Ward (2B), "Chick" Fewster (UP), Wally Pipp (1B), Bob Shawkey (P), Wally Schang (C), Babe Ruth (LF), Carl Mays (P), Waite Hoyt (P), "Chicken" Hawkes (OF).

    Bottom Row, L-R: Johnny Mitchell (UP), Eddie Bennet (mascot), Miller Huggins (Mgr.), Charles O'Leary (coach), Frank Roth (pitching coach).



    1922 New York Yankees; 94-60, .610, 1 g ahead, (WS L 4-0-1 to Giants)---BB Ref (San Antonio, Texas - March 31, 1922.)---Player identifications provided courtesy of Gary Livacari (GaryL).

    L-R: Miller Huggins (Mgr.), Charlie O'Leary (Coach), Whitey Witt (CF), Fred "Bootnose"Hofman (C), Bob Shawkey (P), Al DeVormer (C), Wally Schang (C), Elmer Smith? (OF), Everett Scott (SS), Wally Pipp (1B), Mike McNally (2B), "Bullet" Joe Bush (P), Babe Ruth (LF), Frank "Homerun" Baker (3B), "Jumpin'"Joe Dugan (3B), Chick Fewster (OF), Carl Mays (P), "Sad" Sam Jones (P), Lefty O'Doul (P), Waite Hoyt (P), unidentified (coach), unidentified, unidentified, batboy?, Johnny Mitchell (IF), Aaron Ward (2B), Norm McMillan (OF), Charlie O'Leary (Coach).
    Note that Charlie O'Leary is at both ends! He had run behind the tripod as it slowly panned from left to right.



    1924 New York Yankees; 89-63, .586, 2nd Place, 2 g behind---BB Ref---Player identifications provided courtesy of Gary Livacari (GaryL).

    Top, L-R: Benny Bengough (C), Joe Bush (P), unidentified, Ben Shields (P), Waite Hoyt? (P), Wally Pipp (1B), Babe Ruth (RF), Bob Meusel (LF), unidentified, Walter Beall (P), Oscar Roettger? (P).

    Middle L-R: unidentified, Wally Schang (C), Joe Dugan (3B), Aaron Ward (2B), Miller Huggins (Mgr.), Bob Shawkey (P), Whitey Witt (CF), Cliff Markle? (P), "Sad Sam" Jones (P).

    Bottom, L-R: Ernie Johnson (IF), Lou Gehrig (1B), unidentified, Earle Combs (CF), Charlie O'Leary (Coach), Mike Gazella (IF), Milt Gaston (P), George Pipgras? (P).
    Eddie Bennet (Mascot).



    1927 New York Yankees: 110-44, .714, 19 g ahead, (WS: W 4-0 over Pirates)---BB RefSpring Training in St. Petersburg, FL., March 30, 1927.--Player Identifications provided courtesy of Mark Fimoff (bmarlowe) and Gary Livacari (GaryL).

    Top Row, L-R: Don Miller (P)(former Dartmouth), Joseph Styborsky (P)(former Penn State), Ray Morehart (2B), Paul Krichell (scout), Lou Gehrig (1B), Babe Ruth (OF), Johnny Grabowski (C), Dutch Reuther (P), George Pipgras (P), Jake Ruppert (owner), Mark Koenig (SS), Bob Meusel (OF), Earle Combs (CF), Wilcy Moore (P), Julian Wera (3B), Pat Collins (C), Mark Roth (Traveling Secretary), Al Brennan.

    Middle Row, kneeling, L-R: Ben Paschal (OF), Urban Shocker (P), Hank Johnson (P).

    Bottom Row, L-R: Cedric Durst (OF), Charlie O'Leary (Coach), Eddie Bennett (mascot), unidentified, Myles Thomas (P), Joe Giard (P), Bob Shawkey (P), Miller Huggins (Mgr.), Herb Pennock (P), Art Fletcher (Coach), Waite Hoyt (P), Benny Bengough (C), Mike Gazella (3B), John 'Pee Wee' Dougherty, Joe Dugan (3B).


    Discovered online caption (Florida Museum of Modern Arts): 1927 NY Yankees Photo Courtesy Burgert Brothers Photographic Collection, John F. Germany Public Library. New York Yankees Baseball Team at Spring Training, St. Petersburg, Florida, March 30, 1927.

    Standing, L-R: Don Miller, Joseph Styborsky, Roy Morehart, unidentified, Lou Gehrig, Babe Ruth, Johnny Grabowski, Dutch Reuther, George Pipgras, Owner Jacob Ruppert, Mark Koenig, Bob Meusel, Earl Combs, Wilcy Moore, Julian Wera, Pat Collins, unidentified, unidentified.

    Kneeling, L-R: Ben Paschal, Urban Shocker, Hank Johnson.

    Sitting, L-R: Cedric Durst, Coach Charles O’Leary, Mascot Eddie Bennett, Tony Lazzeri, Myles Thomas, Joe Giard, Bob Shawkey, Manager Miller Huggins, Herb Pennock, Coach Art Fletcher, Waite Hoyt, Ben Bengough, Mike Gazella, unidentified, Joe Dugan.


    1927 New York Yankees: 110-44, .714, 19 g ahead, (WS: W 4-0 over Pirates)---BB Ref---April 01, 1927, spring training in St. Petersburg, FL.---Player identifications provided courtesy of Gary Livacari (GaryL).

    Top Row, L-R: Walter Beall (P), Cedric Durst (OF), Ray Moreheart (2B), Babe Ruth (RF), Dutch Reuther (P), George Pipgras (P), Colonel Jake Ruppert (owner), Roy Chesterfield, Bob Meusel (LF), Lou Gehrig (1B), Herb Pennock (P), Earle Combs (CF), Myles Thomas (P), Pat Collins (C), Mark Roth (Traveling Secretary), Joe Dugan (3B), Al Brennan.

    Middle Row, L-R: Paul Krichell (scout), Julian Wera (3B), John Grabowski (C), Urban Shocker (P), Ben Paschal (OF), Bob Shawkey (P), Wiley Moore (P), Mark Koenig (SS), Shep L. Cannon, John Dougherty (administrator).

    Bottom Row, L-R: Hank Johnson (P), Bennie Bengough (C), Eddie Bennett (mascot), Miller Huggins (Mgr.), Joe Girard (P), Waite Hoyt (P), Arthur Fletcher (coach), Mike Gazella (3B), Charlie O'Leary (coach).



    1928 New York Yankees; 101-53, .656, 2.5 g ahead, (WS: W 4-0 over Cardinals)---BB Ref---Player Identifications provided courtesy of Mark Fimoff (bmarlowe) and Gary Livacari (GaryL).

    Top row, L-R: Tom Zachary (P), George Pipgras (P), Pat Collins (C), Mark Koenig (SS), Fred Heimach (P), Babe Ruth (RF), Johnny Grabowski (C), Tony Lazzeri (2B), Bob Meusel (LF), Earl Combs (CF).

    Middle Row, L-R: Bill Dickey (C), Leo Durocher (SS), Harry Mathews (coach), Charlie O'Leary (coach), Miller Huggins (Mgr.), Art Fletcher (coach), Hank Johnson (P), Waite Hoyt (P), Cedric Durst (OF), Lou Gehrig (1B).

    Bottom Row, L-R: Doc Albert A. Woods (trainer), Mike Gazella (3B), Joe Dugan (3B), Eddie Bennett (mascot), Ben Paschal (OF), Myles Thomas (P), Gene Robertson (3B), Rosy Ryan (P)
    .



    1928 New York Yankees; 101-53, .656, 2.5 g ahead, (WS W 4-0 over Cardinals)---BB Reference---Spring Training at St. Petersburg, FL.---Player identifications provided courtesy of Gary Livacari (GaryL) and Bill Burgess.

    Top Row: L-R: Lou Gehrig (1B), Johnny Nee (scout), Herb Pennock (P), Al Shealy (P), Tony Lazzeri (2B), Ben Paschal (LF), Earl Combs (CF), Wilcy Moore (RP), Babe Ruth (RF), Bill Dickey (C), Mark Koenig (SS), Shep L. Cannon (P), George Pipgras (P), Herbert A. Bryant (C), Bob Meusel (LF), Waite Hoyt (P), Vic Hanson (IF), Archie S. Campbell (P), Bill Eisemann (C), Myles Thomas (P).

    Bottom Row: L-R: Cedric Durst (OF), Leo Durocher (IF), Johnny Grabowski (C), Benny Benough (C), Mike Gazella (3B), Hank Johnson (P), Miller Huggins (Mgr.), Charles O'Leary (coach), Art Fletcher (coach), Joseph Marty (P)(from Lincoln), Pat Collins (C), Sammy Byrd (OF), Stan Coveleski (P), Gene Robertson (3B), Joe Dugan (3B).

    Seated on ground: Eddie Bennett (mascot).



    1929 New York Yankees; 88-66, .571, 2nd Place, 18 g behind---BB Reference---Player identifications provided courtesy of Gary Livacari (GaryL).

    Top Row: L-R: Lyn Lary(SS/3B), Gene Burns (1B), Wilcy Moore (RP), Benny Bengough (C), George Pipgras (P), Fay Thomas (P), Art Jorgens (C), Harry Mathews (coach), Babe Ruth (RF), Al Shealy (P), Lee Craig (P), Tony Lazzeri (2B).

    Middle Row: L-R: Lou Gehrig (1B), Mark Roth (Traveling Secretary), Earl Combs (CF), Chink Outen (C), Roy Sherid (P), Bob Meusel (LF), Tom Zachary (P), Johnny Grabowski (C), Bill Dickey (C), Miller Huggins (Mgr.), Mark Koenig (SS/3B), Jake Ruppert (owner), Ed Wells (P), Sammy Byrd (OF), Waite Hoyt (P), Leo Durocher (IF), Cedric Durst (OF), Gene Robertson (3B), Liz Funk (OF), Doc Albert A. Woods (trainer).

    Bottom Row: L-R: unidentified, unidentified, Eddie Bennett (mascot), Art Fletcher (coach), Charles O'Leary (coach), Myles Thomas (P), Floyd Van Pelt (P), Ben Paschal (OF), Fred Heimach (P), Gordon 'Dusty' Rhodes (P), Himes (P)(Scranton), Hank Johnson (P), Herb Pennock (P)(holding his son), Johnny Nee (scout).



    1931 New York Yankees; 94-59, .614, 2nd place, 13.5 g behind---BB Reference (Photo was taken at spring training in St. Petersburg, FL.)---Player identifications provided courtesy of Gary Livacari (GaryL).

    Top, L-R: Lefty Gomez (P), Dixie Walker (OF), Jim Weaver (P), Lefty Weinert? (P), Walter "Jumbo" Brown (P). , George Pipgras (P).

    2nd, L-R: Ben Chapman (LF), unidentified, Eddie Wells (P), Red Ruffing (P), Tony Lazzeri (2B), Hank Johnson? (P), Earle Combs (CF), unidentified, Mark Roth (Traveling Secretery), Lou McEvoy? (P), Myril Hoag (IF).

    3rd, L-R: Ivy Paul Andrews (P), Roy Sherid (P), Gordon "Dusty" Rhodes (P), unidentified, Babe Ruth (RF), Jacob Ruppert (Owner), Joe McCarthy (Mgr.), Jimmy Burke (Coach), Art Fletcher (Coach), Lou Krichell (scout), Sammy Byrd (OF), Lou Gehrig (1B), Joe Sewell (3B), Doc Painter (trainer).

    Bottom Row, L-R: unidentified, Herb Pennock (P), Red Rolfe (IF), Art Jorgens (C), Lyn Larry (SS), Eddie Bennett (Mascot), unidentified, Dusty Cooke (OF), Cy Perkins (C), Jimmy Reese (2B), Bill Dickey (C).


  6. #6
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    AG2004 contributed this analysis to beautifully refute my above theory:
    The Browns weren't a last-place team in 1927; Boston finished last in the AL that year.

    In 1927, the Yankees went 14-8 against 2nd-place Philadelphia, 14-8 against 3rd-place Washington, and 14-8 against 4th-place Detroit. That's an impressive performance against the better AL clubs.

    Competitive balance in a league does play a role - if the league as a whole is better, that makes the overall record of the champion more impressive than otherwise. However, since the 1927 Yanks did so well against the league's top clubs, their 21-1 record against the Browns doesn't matter a lot.

    The 1954 Indians, by contrast, really beat up on the bottom-feeders. The Indians went 111-43, but there were only three AL teams better than .450; the league was very unbalanced. (The 1927 AL had four teams with winning records and five teams above .450.) The 1954 Indians went just 11-11 against the second-place Yankees, and 11-11 against the third-place White Sox. They proceeded to get swept by the Giants in the World Series.

    The 1927 Yankees were impressive against the top teams. Beating up on the 7th-place Browns and 8th-place Red Sox helped their record, but they would still be legendary had they lost a few more games to the bottom-feeders. The 1954 Indians, however, needed to dominate the bottom teams in order to get their impressive record; they were just average against the better teams that year.

    As I pointed out earlier, the 1927 Yankees had a better winning percentage against upper-division teams than the 1929 Athletics had. The Yankees' performance against St. Louis doesn't count towards that record, since the Browns were 7th. If one were to ignore the games against lower-division clubs, the 1927 Yankees would still have a better record than the 1929 Athletics, despite the abolition of the league competitiveness issue.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    let's see how the teams did against the just the top teams in baseball.
    Let's throw out all the games against the bottom-feeders, and just focus on how
    the teams did against clubs that finished in the top four in their league.

    1927. The Philadelphia Athletics finished second in the AL, the Washington
    Senators finished third in the AL, the Detroit Tigers finished fourth in the AL,
    and the Pittsburgh Pirates won the NL. Against only those four teams , the
    New York Yankees went 46-24, for a .657 winning percentage.

    1929. The Yankees finished second in the AL, Cleveland finished third, the
    Browns finished fourth, and the Cubs won the NL pennant. Against only those
    four teams , the Philadelphia Athletics went 43-26, for a .623 winning
    percentage.

    1917. Boston finished second in the AL, Cleveland third, and Detroit fourth.
    The Giants won the NL pennant. Against only those four teams , the Chicago
    White Sox went 45-26, for a .634 winning percentage.

    And, out of curiosity,

    1998. Boston, Cleveland, and Texas all finished among the top four in winning
    percentage in the AL. San Diego and Atlanta finished among the top four in
    winning percentage in the NL (they were the only such teams that the Yankees
    played that year). Against only those five teams , the New York Yankees went
    36-16, for a .692 winning percentage. If you look at the regular season alone,
    the New York Yankees went 25-13, for a .658 winning percentage.

    So, here's a short list of how various clubs did against only those teams that
    finished in the top four in their league:

    1998 New York Yankees, .692 winning percentage (including postseason)
    1998 New York Yankees, .658 winning percentage (regular season only)

    1927 New York Yankees, .657 winning percentage (including postseason)
    1927 New York Yankees, .636 winning percentage (regular season only)

    1917 Chicago White Sox, .634 winning percentage (including postseason)
    1917 Chicago White Sox, .630 winning percentage (regular season only)

    1929 Philadelphia Athletics, .623 winning percentage (including postseason)
    1929 Philadelphia Athletics, .609 winning percentage (regular season only)

    From this we see that:

    1) The 1927 Yankees did a better job against the league's top teams than the
    1929 Athletics.

    2) The 1998 Yankees were even better against the league's top teams than those
    earlier squads, despite the fact that the overall standard of teams was better
    in the 1990s than it was pre-integration.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    1927 Yankees - Reported Salaries


    Miller Huggins, Manager $37,500
    Ed Barrow, GM $25,000

    Babe Ruth, OF $70,000
    Herb Pennock, P $17,500
    (plus $1,000 bonus if attained 25 wins)
    Urban Shocker, P $13,500
    Bob Meusel, OF $13,000
    Joe Dugan, 3B $12,000
    Waite Hoyt, P $11,000
    (plus $1,000 bonus if attained 20 wins)
    Earle Combs, OF $10,500
    Bob Shawkey, P $10,500
    Benny Bengough, C $8,000
    Tony Lazzeri, 2B $8,000
    (plus round trip train fare for he and his wife at the beginning and end of season)
    Lou Gehrig, 1B $7,500
    Mark Koenig, SS $7,000
    Pat Collins, C $7,000
    Ben Paschal, OF $7,000
    Myles Thomas, P $6,500
    John Grabowski, C $5,500
    Mike Gazella, IF $5,000
    Joe Giard, P $5,000
    Cedric Durst, OF $4,500
    George Pipgras, P $4,500
    Wilcy Moore, P $2,500
    (plus $500 bonus if finishes year with club)
    Julie Wera, IF $2,400

    Total Payroll (est.) $250,000
    Average $10,000
    Median $7,000

    Each player received a 1927 World Series winner's share of $5,592.17.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    1932 New York Yankees; 107-47, .695, 13 g ahead, (WS W 4-0 over Cubs)---BB Reference---December 17, 1932.---Player identifications provided courtesy of Gary Livacari (GaryL).

    Top Row, L-R: Eddie Farrell (IF), Red Ruffing (P), George Pipgras (P), Wilcy Moore (P), Charles Devens (C), Daniel McFayden (P), Art Jorgens (C), Joe Sewell (3B), Joe Glenn (C).

    Middle Row, L-R: Cy Perkins (C), Johnny Allen (P), Edward Wells (P), Tony Lazzeri (2B), Lefty Gomez (P), Babe Ruth (RF), Walter Brown (P), Lou Gehrig (1B), Earl Combs (CF), Lyn Lary (IF).

    Bottom Row, L-R: Herb Pennock (P), Sam Byrd (OF) Frank Crosetti (SS), Art Fletcher (coach); Joseph McCarthy (Mgr.), James Burke (coach), Myril Hoag (OF), Ben Chapman (OF), Bill Dickey (C).



    1933 NY Yankees; 91-59, .607, 2nd place, 7 g behind---BB Reference---at spring training in St. Petersburg, FL.---Player identifications provided courtesy of Gary Livacari (GaryL).

    Top Row, L-R: Myril Hoag (OF), Ben Chapman (LF), Ed Wells (P), Charlie Devens (P), Walter "Jumbo" Brown (P), Babe Ruth (RF), Red Ruffing (P), Wilcey Moore (P), Earle Combs (CF), George Pipgras (P), Tony Lazzeri (2b), Dixie Walker? (OF), unidentified.

    Middle Row, L-R: Mark Roth (Traveling Secretary), Lefty Gomez (P), unidentified, unidentified, Frankie Crosetti (SS), Art Fletcher (Coach), Jacob Ruppert (President/Owner), Joe McCarthy (Mgr.), Jimmy Burke (Coach), Sammy Byrd (OF), Bill Dickey (C), Dusty Cooke (OF), Lou Gehrig (1B), George Ruppert (VP), Doc Painter (trainer).

    Bottom Row: Joe (Gurzensky) Glenn (C), Art Jorgens (C), Herb Pennock (P), George Uhle (P), Don Brennan? (P), Lyn Larry (SS), Doc Farrell (IF), unidentified, Tony Rensa? (Catcher), unidentified, unidentified, unidentified, Joe Sewell (3B), Danny McFadden (P).


  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Burgess View Post
    So, who do you think was the Greatest Team of them all?
    Interesting that even though you already "created a thread about the 1929-1932 Athletics" , 1/3 of the 1926-1929 Yankee poll would be about the A's too! Nice try disguising another A's vs. Yankees all-time team thread.

    For the record , I have no favorite here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by STLCards2 View Post
    Interesting that even though you already "created a thread about the 1929-1932 Athletics" , 1/3 of the 1926-1929 Yankee poll would be about the A's too! Nice try disguising another A's vs. Yankees all-time team thread.

    For the record , I have no favorite here.
    If you notice, those posts involve the Yankee/A's rivalry.

    Those posts relate to both, but I suspect you slyly intuit that already, you salty ole sleuth.

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    Bill, thanks for the great work in creating this thread.
    Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

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    Quote Originally Posted by KCGHOST View Post
    Bill, thanks for the great work in creating this thread.
    You're so welcome! I do what I can to create interesting historical discussions.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Burgess View Post
    If you notice, those posts involve the Yankee/A's rivalry.

    Those posts relate to both, but I suspect you slyly intuit that already, you salty ole sleuth.
    I am feeling especialy salty lately - always fun to give you a hard time!
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    Would it be too much of a stretch to say the 1928 Athletics vs. Yankees pennant race featured the most talented, star-laden*, dominant pair of teams to ever square off for a league title?

    The Yankees had by far the best offense in the league, while the Athletics offense far outstripped any other team in the league. The Yanks pitching was fairly ordinary, but the A's boasted the best defense in the league and by far the best pitching staff. The A's finished only 2.5 games back, the only team in the league that got within 19 games of the Yanks.

    * Ruth, Gehrig, Foxx, Grove, Cobb, Speaker, Collins, Cochrane, and Simmons.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by STLCards2 View Post
    I am feeling especialy salty lately - always fun to give you a hard time!
    All communications from you have always been solid and worth-while. So, keep giving me a hard time and I'll keep giving you solid historical baseball discussions.

    Deal?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwiggins View Post
    Would it be too much of a stretch to say the 1928 Athletics vs. Yankees pennant race featured the most talented, star-laden*, dominant pair of teams to ever square off for a league title?

    The Yankees had by far the best offense in the league, while the Athletics offense far outstripped any other team in the league. The Yanks pitching was fairly ordinary, but the A's boasted the best defense in the league and by far the best pitching staff. The A's finished only 2.5 games back, the only team in the league that got within 19 games of the Yanks.

    * Ruth, Gehrig, Foxx, Grove, Cobb, Speaker, Collins, Cochrane, and Simmons.
    Would have just loved to sit in the stands in the warm sun and watched those 2 teams. Popcorn, soda, candy. Does it get any better?

    Only if you add a sweet, blond/blue, shapely honey with a big butt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Burgess View Post
    Would have just loved to sit in the stands in the warm sun and watched those 2 teams. Popcorn, soda, candy. Does it get any better?

    Only if you add a sweet, blond/blue, shapely honey with a big butt.
    Yep, would have loved to be in Yankee Stadium in September for that A's-Yanks double header, with the A's coming in a half game up on the defending champs.

    It's interesting that the race was so close, and the A's actually had a better Pythagorean expected W-L record, but the Yanks mauled them (16-6 vs. the A's, outscoring them by 2 runs a game on avg.) when they met head-to-head.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mwiggins View Post
    Yep, would have loved to be in Yankee Stadium in September for that A's-Yanks double header, with the A's coming in a half game up on the defending champs.

    It's interesting that the race was so close, and the A's actually had a better Pythagorean expected W-L record, but the Yanks mauled them (16-6 vs. the A's, outscoring them by 2 runs a game on avg.) when they met head-to-head.
    Ain't it interesting what a difference a year makes.

    In 1928, the Yanks beat the A's, 16-6, yet only a year later, the A's take the Yanks down, 14-8. What happened that the 2 teams switched places so completely?

    Were basicly the same teams.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Burgess View Post
    Ain't it interesting what a difference a year makes.

    In 1928, the Yanks beat the A's, 16-6, yet only a year later, the A's take the Yanks down, 14-8. What happened that the 2 teams switched places so completely?

    Were basicly the same teams.
    They got rid of Cobb.

    Seriously, though, the Yanks pitching slumped BADLY in '29. Hoyt, Pipgras, and Pennock all had significantly worse years in 1929 than they did in 1928.

  18. #18
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    Ha ha ha. Yeah, I hear ya. Getting rid of your .323 hitters normally solves your problems. Makes sense.

    But seriously, they just didn't need Speaker, Cobb, Wheat anymore. Ty had taught them to hit, and that was his on-going contribution.

  19. #19

    Five O'Clock Lightning

    There is an excellent article on the 1927 Yankees in the Third Fireside Book Of Baseball (any baseball "fan" should have all three of these in their library, truly great baseball stuff). It is titled "five o'clock lightning" which became the nickname of the 1927 Yankees.


    "The team struck so often in the late innings that Combs called this delayed attack "five o'clock lightning". The phrase caught on, spread through the league and seeped into the consciousness of opposing pitchers. They began to dread the approach of five o'clock and the eighth inning."
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Burgess View Post
    All communications from you have always been solid and worth-while. So, keep giving me a hard time and I'll keep giving you solid historical baseball discussions.

    Deal?
    Deal!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9RoyHobbsRF View Post
    There is an excellent article on the 1927 Yankees in the Third Fireside Book Of Baseball (any baseball "fan" should have all three of these in their library, truly great baseball stuff). It is titled "five o'clock lightning" which became the nickname of the 1927 Yankees.


    "The team struck so often in the late innings that Combs called this delayed attack "five o'clock lightning". The phrase caught on, spread through the league and seeped into the consciousness of opposing pitchers. They began to dread the approach of five o'clock and the eighth inning."
    I just read the book Five O'Clock Lightening by Harvey Frommer and enjoyed it immensely.

  22. #22
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    I have read that second baseman, Tony Lazzeri, was an epileptic.

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    Allow me to try and refute AG's refutation.

    In his 1927 discussion he mentions that the Yanks had a 14-8 record against each of the 2nd through 4th place team. What he fails to mention is that these teams also got to play Boston as well and they too beat up on Boston. And they only reason STL wasn't in last place is because they beat up on BOston as well. The top 4 teams in the league had their records pumped up by the bottom two teams in the league. The Yanks being the best team got theirs most inflated but the other teams look good on paper because of those two bottom teams.

    A little better basement and Detroit could have been a .500 team with Washington close to that as well and Philadelphia in the mid to upper 90's.

    One can argue that the Yanks did well against the next 3 teams but one also needs to recognize that the next 3 teams were not as talented as their record would indicate.

    The 1927 Yankees will always be legendary but they got 110 wins and had the stats they did largely because their league was weak.

  24. #24
    One of my favorite baseball quotes is from Lefty Gomez

    I guess there was a game Gomez was pitching and a plane was flying overhead.

    Gomez wouldn't pitch and just was gazing at the airplane. Lazzeri went to the mound to coax Gomez to stop watching the plane and pitch.

    Gomez supposedly said "you worry about spaghetti and second base, I will worry about airplanes and pitching"
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  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiquitous View Post
    Allow me to try and refute AG's refutation.

    In his 1927 discussion he mentions that the Yanks had a 14-8 record against each of the 2nd through 4th place team. What he fails to mention is that these teams also got to play Boston as well and they too beat up on Boston. And they only reason STL wasn't in last place is because they beat up on BOston as well. The top 4 teams in the league had their records pumped up by the bottom two teams in the league. The Yanks being the best team got theirs most inflated but the other teams look good on paper because of those two bottom teams.

    A little better basement and Detroit could have been a .500 team with Washington close to that as well and Philadelphia in the mid to upper 90's.

    One can argue that the Yanks did well against the next 3 teams but one also needs to recognize that the next 3 teams were not as talented as their record would indicate.

    The 1927 Yankees will always be legendary but they got 110 wins and had the stats they did largely because their league was weak.

    I think you are reaching here

    Most baseball historians rank this as easily the best team ever. Some baseball authors refuse to write a book on the greatest baseball teams ever because A) if they do it "correctly" the 1927 Yankees will be listed #1 and who needs yet another book with the same conclusion B) if they name another team #1, they will lose credibility

    in either case th ebook won't sell

    The Yankees are more than just a 110-44 team, it is how they did it and the numbers they put up in doing it, plus they cruised to a 4-0 series win, I guess the 1927 Pirates played in a weak league too

    You want a weak league, go see the 1950 AL where the teams were so upside down it is funny

    You want a balanced league? go see NL 1982 and I guess you can claim the 1982 Cards were the best ever?

    you are (in my opinion) reaching upon reaching to find a something to criticize

    they were the best ever
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