2011 gameday thread

[chip&smoltz95]

Wren has a share of the blame for treating this guy like a prized special prospect but Gonzalez continues to run him out there in high leverage situations and then make the most brain dead of all possible excuses (he said it wouldn't have been fair to use Cory there because he's too young to pitch in such a high pressure situation) when called on it.

which we all know is BS, because i believe his first mlb appearance was a 2 inning extra inning appearance.

[PureBaseballFan]

Why Alex bats ahead of anyone that isn't a pitcher astounds me.

[PureBaseballFan]

Mark Bradley believes that the Braves should swap Minor for Beltran, do you guys agree?

[SamtheBravesFan]

Hell no. Swap Vizcaino for Beltran. If Minor is traded, that means the Braves won't have a left-handed starter until Sean Gilmartin or Brett Oberholtzer are ready. Not to mention that Minor could step into the Mets rotation immediately and possibly blossom with that cavernous park.

Braves would only get two months of Beltran for a shot at the wild card and hopefully advance in the playoffs. Mets could get a top lefty for years to come.

[PureBaseballFan]

Hell no. Swap Vizcaino for Beltran. If Minor is traded, that means the Braves won't have a left-handed starter until Sean Gilmartin or Brett Oberholtzer are ready. Not to mention that Minor could step into the Mets rotation immediately and possibly blossom with that cavernous park.

Braves would only get two months of Beltran for a shot at the wild card and hopefully advance in the playoffs. Mets could get a top lefty for years to come.

I would actually be more against giving them Viz because he has that potential to be a number 1 while Minor likely is going to be a good middle of the rotation guy.

Hey look at that Gonzalez grounded into an easy double-play that is rare these days.

[SamtheBravesFan]

Potential? All I'm hearing is that he should be a reliever. A few guys I know say he should be a reliever right now, and one says Vizcaino's mechanics are so poor that he'd burn out if he was a starter.

I'm not watching the game. It's Dontrelle Willis. Law of Braves Averages says that he either dominates them or they kick his butt. Remember last year that they lost a game that Willis started as a Diamondback.

[PureBaseballFan]

Potential? All I'm hearing is that he should be a reliever. A few guys I know say he should be a reliever right now, and one says Vizcaino's mechanics are so poor that he'd burn out if he was a starter.

Sure he might be a reliever but pure and simple he has the stuff (two pitches right now) to develop into a frontline starter.

I can't talk of mechanics because I haven't seen him pitch enough and I am far from an expert on them but I haven't read anything that says he has poor mechanics or ones that scouts are concerned by.

Most the chatter around Viz going to the pen appears to be driven by a couple facts, 1 being the Braves have pitching rotation depth that is young with guys clearly ahead of him (though I think he could have jumped ahead of Randall this season), and 2 being the fact they could potentially use him this year down the stretch. Sure he has the stuff right now to be a good reliever in the majors but it is rare you get an arm like Viz and unless you are 99.9% sure his future is in the pen then there is no way in hell you send him to a team in the same division and I think people who are automatically putting him in the pen are doing so prematurely.

I would be fine with trading Viz to someone like the Astros for Pence or maybe even the Rays for Upton but trading him in division would make me stage a one man protest in front of Turner Field.

[SamtheBravesFan]

I would be fine with trading Viz to someone like the Astros for Pence or maybe even the Rays for Upton but trading him in division would make me stage a one man protest in front of Turner Field.

People seem to be saying the same thing about Mike Minor too. :P All in the perspective.

The Braves need someone like Beltran; it's painfully obvious. The question is, who is the best pitcher to give up for him if they go that route?

I'd be fine with Delgado or Vizcaino and I don't think I can waver from that. I believe Teheran is completely off-limits and the Braves desperately need to keep a left-handed starter that can pitch in the majors right now.

[PureBaseballFan]

People seem to be saying the same thing about Mike Minor too. :P All in the perspective.

The Braves need someone like Beltran; it's painfully obvious. The question is, who is the best pitcher to give up for him if they go that route?

I'd be fine with Delgado or Vizcaino and I don't think I can waver from that. I believe Teheran is completely off-limits and the Braves desperately need to keep a left-handed starter that can pitch in the majors right now.

I mean no matter how you look at it trading any of these guys to a division rival could comeback and bite the Braves in the a** but for upside I think Minor has the lowest of the 4 which makes him the guy you trade if you are going to make the trade.

As for the lefties having a left in the rotation would be nice but I just don't find it critical, I want the five best starters if Minor is one of them that is fine but if not then I don't want them to force a lefty in there to have one.

Edit :: The latest I have read is that the Braves are starting to fall out of the race which if I am honest doesn't really make me sad, I would rather the Braves try and get someone who can actually play CFer like Upton or Bourn (who they are also talking about).

[PureBaseballFan]

Some other things to add.

Braves are one of the teams that has kicked the tires on BJ Upton, the Nationals are also in on him though have balked at the price of Peacock or Detwiler which. Using the midseason prospect lists (top 50) Peacock didn't make Keith Law's while he was 42nd in Baseball America's ranking close to Braves prospect Randall Delgado at 44.

The Braves are also looking at the Blue Jays relievers of Jon Rauch and Jason Frasor, both have club options for 3.75 Million in 2012. Rauch isn't great but is a solid reliever and should cost less in prospects, Frasor is the better reliever and that extra year of control makes the cost for him being higher.

[PureBaseballFan]

Is Tosca the smartest manager in the Atlanta dugout because he seems to hate Scott Proctor?

[PureBaseballFan]

WTF was that ending? I am glad the game ended and I can finally go to sleep but even I am mad for the Pirates on that one. It was a terrible night for the strikezone and to end it on that is just amazing.

[Los Bravos]

Meals got sick of listening to that little girl.

[PureBaseballFan]

Jair tonight = Big Fail. 2 HRs to Ankiel, an RBI to Livan, and a bad sacrifice bunt turned into a double play.

[Los Bravos]

No argument. They have to win games like this, especially on nights when the Phillies do things like what they did tonight.

I have little to no expectation of winning tomorrow. We always make Lannan look like Warren Spahn and Lowe will have us down 4-0 after 20 pitches.

[PureBaseballFan]

Braves need to start using their pitching depth by giving Derek Lowe's spot to one of the young guys because he just can't go past 3 innings without imploding this year.

[Los Bravos]

Braves need to start using their pitching depth by giving Derek Lowe's spot to one of the young guys because he just can't go past 3 innings without imploding this year.

Co-sign. We can't take a guaranteed once a week like clockwork ass kicking/bullpen reaming.

[PureBaseballFan]

Wait Delgado gets taken out after giving up a HR for the first hit of the game after throwing 74 pitches but Derek Lowe can stay in and give up 5 or 6 runs by the 5th throwing over 100 pitches, how does that work?

[AStubbs7]

Fredi Gonzalez is an awful in game manager. The hook tonight on Delgado could have gone either way IMO.

[SamtheBravesFan]

Wait Delgado gets taken out after giving up a HR for the first hit of the game after throwing 74 pitches but Derek Lowe can stay in and give up 5 or 6 runs by the 5th throwing over 100 pitches, how does that work?

Easy: it's Delgado's second major-league start and Lowe has been pitching since 1997 and is getting paid $15 million to pitch. It's possible that he doesn't trust rookie starters much.

What the early hook prevented us from seeing is how Delgado would react to coughing up a game-tying home run in a major league situation. He could have kept pitching dominantingly, but I think he could have just as easily lost his composure and imploded.

[Los Bravos]

I don't mind him being taken out there (I like to see a guy who has pitched well but is in danger of having the game get away from him removed while he still has a lot of good feelings about his performance), but I do hate the fact that Randall was sent down and probably won't start again until September.

I have to say that I'm pleasently surprised by your disdain for Lowe's 2011 efforts, PBF. I'm getting a lot of pushback from sabermetrically inclined people on other boards when I complain about his general worthlessness (lots of invocations of xFIP and the word "unlucky" are the leading culprits.)

[PureBaseballFan]

I don't mind him being taken out there (I like to see a guy who has pitched well but is in danger of having the game get away from him removed while he still has a lot of good feelings about his performance), but I do hate the fact that Randall was sent down and probably won't start again until September.

I have to say that I'm pleasently surprised by your disdain for Lowe's 2011 efforts, PBF. I'm getting a lot of pushback from sabermetrically inclined people on other boards when I complain about his general worthlessness (lots of invocations of xFIP and the word "unlucky" are the leading culprits.)

I look at his advanced stats as well and watching some games he is clearly getting unlucky with dinks and dunks but there are other times that he is simply getting rocked. Sure he could be getting unlucky but the simple truth is that you can't simply expect it to regress to the mean and balance out. From watching the games it isn't that Lowe is purely getting unlucky but he really seems to be struggling with command.

Easy: it's Delgado's second major-league start and Lowe has been pitching since 1997 and is getting paid $15 million to pitch. It's possible that he doesn't trust rookie starters much.

I realize that but it is stupid logic. I know it will never happen but the Braves should put Lowe in the bullpen, I don't care that you have a $15 Million dollar reliever because at least he could be effective in the role, Splits of Lowe look at by Inning and Pitch Count, as he falls apart the later he gets into the game.

[SamtheBravesFan]

I didn't say I disagreed with you. Baseball decisions aren't made out of complete logic, as you know. It's perfectly logical to banish Derek Lowe to the bullpen and have him make spot starts or pitch 2-3 innings at a time.

[PureBaseballFan]

I didn't say I disagreed with you. Baseball decisions aren't made out of complete logic, as you know. It's perfectly logical to banish Derek Lowe to the bullpen and have him make spot starts or pitch 2-3 innings at a time.

Not saying you did sorry if it came off that way.

[SamtheBravesFan]

Not saying you did sorry if it came off that way.

Naw, I didn't take it that way at all. I understand how you feel. It's a shame Derek Lowe seems to be nearing the end. At the same time, the Braves do have arms that could replace him quite easily.

That's a good thing.