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Thread: The Umpires - When is Enough Enough?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ol' aches and pains View Post
    The stuff with West is bad enough, but hardly surprising. The incident with Mattingly and Mike DiMuro is surprising to me. For DuMuro to first admit he isn't 100% sure of his call, and then refuse Mattingly's request to ask another umpire is inexcusable, in my opinion.
    Moving a little off the topic, and encroaching on another topic, Mattingly made an interesting point in that in the incident in question, an instant replay would have taken much less time than all arguing that went on, and the correct decision would have resulted. The same would have applied in the Francona incident. It may even see the demise of umpires like West when they know their decisions will be under more scrutiny.
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  2. #22
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    Here's another video where they talk about altercations over the last week or so..

    http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=14747287

    An umpire man-handles a manager and gets no penalty. A player makes incidental contact with an umpire and gets suspended. Wake up MLB!
    Mike Hopper
    Former Gateway Grizzlies Intern

  3. #23
    I am an admirer of and sympathizer with umpires almost all of the time. West was, as he often is, out of line, MAINLY for this reason: Angel Hernandez is a nearly 20-year veteran. If the umpire Francona wanted to question had been a rookie, the crew chief often will step in to protect him. Some crew chiefs don't step in, believing that a newer umpire has to take some heat, but they don't let it escalate. West escalated it himself.

    The Mattingly-DiMuro business surprised me, and for a few reasons. One, DiMuro is a good umpire. Not only that, he is the son of another fine umpire, the late Lou DiMuro, and by his account he said something like, "How often are any of us 100% sure of anything?" No. They teach you from the outset in umpire school not to say something like that to give wiggle room for an argument. Two, Mattingly doesn't have a reputation, so far as I know, as a whiner or anything like that. Managers who make silly arguments--the classic was Earl Weaver--would get no slack. There's a story about Walter Alston about the time he stepped out of the dugout and called over the umpiring crew--and they came over to him! He had their respect.

    Rapuano is widely regarded as one of the best umpires in baseball, and deservedly so. The Victorino footage reminded me of something the late, great Jocko Conlan once said. He said a player who had been ejected would say, I didn't say a word, and Conlan said, oh, but if they knew what he DID. Rapuano may have thought Victorino gave him the finger, for example. That doesn't mean Victorino did. But I notice that fans, writers, and broadcasters display this incredible ability to know exactly what was said in an argument, and 99.9999999% of the time, their knowledge favors the player or manager over the umpire. Well, I think of the umpire quoted in a recent book as saying that maybe the steroid revelations will make people understand why umpires had to get a bit more physical in recent years, because players were foaming at the mouth.

  4. #24
    Foaming at the mouth? Now, that's funny. Well-written and concise commentary, and right on point. Though West is largely panned by observers of the game as well as participants, I wonder how much is due to the 24-7 availability of coverage via the Net and various cable channels? A fellow can't even pick his nose in private anymore without seeing it televised worldwide, it seems. We as fans/viewers/observers are able to dissect and interpret, or misinterpret, every move made by another person (be they public figure, sports icon, someone on their honeymoon, driving the kids to school in sweats, with a stain on the shirt, with a bad hair day, etc.). On the whole, I think most umpires/referees/game officials, down to grade school level, try hard and do a darn fine job.

    Then there's Joe West. He might have been a decent ump at one time, now he's a short-fused egoist. Union or not, there ought be a review board after so many egregious incidences.

  5. #25
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    I detest umpires who have the strike zone of a postage stamp and do not keep the game moving at a good pace. They should be promoted and demoted like the players.

  6. #26
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    So who is surprised this umpiring crew is involved in controversy once again?

    http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=15095195
    Mike Hopper
    Former Gateway Grizzlies Intern

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog19 View Post
    So who is surprised this umpiring crew is involved in controversy once again?
    Ah jeeze, what the heck is the MLB thinking by assigning a rookie umpire to this crew? Really? They want Joe West to be mentoring new umpires? This is so stupid it hurts.

  8. #28
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    http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=16242041

    This umpiring crew apparently doesn't need a 1st base umpire..
    Mike Hopper
    Former Gateway Grizzlies Intern

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog19 View Post
    http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=16242041

    This umpiring crew apparently doesn't need a 1st base umpire..
    The important thing is to get the call right, which they did. The first baseman never tagged the runner. I have no problem with this one.
    What's the rumpus?

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ol' aches and pains View Post
    The important thing is to get the call right, which they did. The first baseman never tagged the runner. I have no problem with this one.
    I have no stake in this particular play. I just found that video and thought it was interesting.

    Well I guess that depends on who you ask. How can the guys from the other side of the field make that call? And if they can see it better than the guy standing in position closer to the play, then he needs to be replaced or they can eliminate that spot completely. Also, another umpire is not supposed to be allowed to overrule his partner which clearly happened in this case.
    Mike Hopper
    Former Gateway Grizzlies Intern

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog19 View Post
    Well I guess that depends on who you ask. How can the guys from the other side of the field make that call? And if they can see it better than the guy standing in position closer to the play, then he needs to be replaced or they can eliminate that spot completely.
    Just because one ump is a lot closer to the play, it doesn't mean that he is in the best position to see a tag. Angle is sometimes more important than distance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog19 View Post
    Also, another umpire is not supposed to be allowed to overrule his partner which clearly happened in this case.
    I would use the word interfered, not overruled. It appeared that the home plate umpire called for a conference, and the rules say that he shouldn't do that. "(c) If a decision is appealed, the umpire making the decision may ask another umpire for information before making a final decision. No umpire shall criticize, seek to reverse or interfere with another umpire's decision unless asked to do so by the umpire making it."

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog19 View Post
    I have no stake in this particular play. I just found that video and thought it was interesting.

    Well I guess that depends on who you ask. How can the guys from the other side of the field make that call? And if they can see it better than the guy standing in position closer to the play, then he needs to be replaced or they can eliminate that spot completely. Also, another umpire is not supposed to be allowed to overrule his partner which clearly happened in this case.
    So would you rather see them let an obviously incorrect call stand? I thought the object was to get it right.
    What's the rumpus?

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ol' aches and pains View Post
    So would you rather see them let an obviously incorrect call stand? I thought the object was to get it right.
    You must have footage that I don't have. I see no "obviously incorrect call" in that video. And even if I did, remember that is in SLOW MOTION. The umpire saw it one time at full speed. The home-plate umpire was out of line.

    And I have never said that they should let an obviously incorrect call stand. In fact, if you'd read my past posts, you'd find that I argue for them to correct the calls!
    Mike Hopper
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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ol' aches and pains View Post
    So would you rather see them let an obviously incorrect call stand? I thought the object was to get it right.
    Why didn't they do that with Jim Joyce last year??? Oh yeah, because he's been in the league soooo long, any missed call he makes would stand. I don't think it's coincidence Gallaragga has never come that close to a no hitter again. I thought Morse got the cleat on that one, and when it's a bang-bang play without the benefit of super slo-mo, you got a 50-50 shot of being incorrect. Have the Umps been told to do more of this since the no-hitter that wasn't? This seemed almost like a fraternity hazing ritual than a hunt for justice.
    LETS GO BUCS!!

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeatEmBucs View Post
    I don't think it's coincidence Gallaragga has never come that close to a no hitter again.
    What does that mean?

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeatEmBucs View Post
    I don't think it's coincidence Gallaragga has never come that close to a no hitter again.
    Probably not, since he never came that close before either.
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  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog19 View Post
    So who is surprised this umpiring crew is involved in controversy once again?

    http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=15095195
    I was just about to post this one and I am glad I clicked your link. I saw this live (on tv anyways) and guess who comes to save the day.

  18. #38
    I don't think the "Hawk" and Joe exchange Christmas cards...

    http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=11290195

    Anyone else find it amusing that we are finding all these vids (with commentary) from mlb.com? It would be like Toyota running commercials blaming their problems on their own engineers.

  19. #39
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    Where else would you find them? MLB has them deleted from YouTube daily...
    Mike Hopper
    Former Gateway Grizzlies Intern

  20. #40
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    Did West ever get reprimended for the Mark Buehrle balk calls, I remember watching that game and I recall Guillen telling reporters fans arent paying money to watch me manage or to watch Joe West ump. He said something along those lines but he prob threw in some cuss words too. West umped for the Sox recently and Harrelson and Stone actually said he was being consistent with his calls.
    "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

    "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

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