The Umpires - When is Enough Enough?

[Bulldog19]

Great Reyes called out at 3rd when he was clearly never tagged by ARod. Problem was 3/4 of the crew screwing up, not being in position causing the HP ump to have to run up the line and not be in correct position to make right call.

What do you think they should have done differently? The only thing I could maybe think of would be for the 1st base umpire to go out for the catch. In this case though, I believe the 2nd base ump goes out so the 3rd base umpire has to slide over for a play at second. Then the "wheel play" is on for the umpires. 3rd base ump goes to second, HP ump heads for third, and the 1st base umpire covers the plate..

[metfan13]

But the 2nd base ump was wandering around the infield - he was inside the 2B bag, the 3rd base ump was about 20 feet into the OF and kind of close to the line causing the HP ump to run up the line. He's either blind or wasn't in the correct spot to make the right call.

[Bulldog19]

I watched it again and would say you're right. I thought the umpire at second base when he slid there was the 3rd base ump, but watching it again you're correct. Mechanics appear to be way off..

[SHOELESSJOE3]

But the 2nd base ump was wandering around the infield - he was inside the 2B bag, the 3rd base ump was about 20 feet into the OF and kind of close to the line causing the HP ump to run up the line. He's either blind or wasn't in the correct spot to make the right call.

For sure he's not blind. It's easy to see why he got it wrong. First of all he blocked out by AROD and add to that he did not get the replay view from the side like we did.
I could understand how it appeared the tag was made, AROD's swipe was close enough to make it appear he did tag the runner.
Again, bottom line, from where the ump was it was not easy to see, he got it wrong.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

One thing for sure.................all teams get some bad calls, homers always think their teams gets the worst.
Been a Yankee fan all my life, watching many games and my son thinks the Yanks always get the short end.
I try to explain, not true, the Yanks get some gifts at times, all teams do.

The call on Reyes obviously wrong. But not blatent, look where the ump was, tried to get into position but did not.
Looks obvious to me, he was blocked out and from where he was, looked like the tag was made.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

This one almost put my father in the grave, this was a crucial blown call, Yanks lost this one in extra innings, won the WS. The ump looks to be in a good position to see the play. How is this for balls, ump looks at the picture and still believes Sain was out.

[metfan13]

Funny, but after the game Layne had pretty much the same response as Passarella. How about checking the replay and admitting that you weren't in position due to how the play worked out and missed the call.

[Bulldog19]

The home plate umpire was in the best position you can expect from him in that situation. I want to know why the 3rd base umpire is out in left field..

[SHOELESSJOE3]

The home plate umpire was in the best position you can expect from him in that situation. I want to know why the 3rd base umpire is out in left field..

Thats the way I saw it, he tried. Again, easy to see how he missed the call, the missed tag was by inches and the most important factor, he was blocked out by AROD.
I like all of us don't like to see bad calls, this was far from terrible, compared to those when the ump has a great view and some how he doesn't see the play as it actually was.

[metfan13]

Eh, he wasn't down the line far enough. Don't know whether he got a late start because he didn't notice the 3B out in LF or perhaps they were all caught by surprise by Reyes making a play almost no one else tries. After all in a 90 feet race I guess Reyes will beat Layne.

[Bulldog19]

Eh, he wasn't down the line far enough. Don't know whether he got a late start because he didn't notice the 3B out in LF or perhaps they were all caught by surprise by Reyes making a play almost no one else tries. After all in a 90 feet race I guess Reyes will beat Layne.

He had a late start. For one, it's a play that rarely happens and really shouldn't happen. And you can tell the umpire was surprised; he wasn't really set up for a play.. he's still moving when the play was made..

[Bulldog19]

No wonder the umpires are so bad.. their supervisor is too concerned with the players talking to each other in pregame!

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseb...00c27606d.html

[metfan13]

Joe shold worry more about the umps being in shape to cover their positions. IF a play is out of shape and can't perform, he's out of a job. Umps get away with too much and hang around for years past their prime.

[ipitch]

No wonder the umpires are so bad.. their supervisor is too concerned with the players talking to each other in pregame!

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseb...00c27606d.html

Well, it is a rule. But, Torre didn't seem to have a problem with it when he was with the Yankees.

3.09
Players in uniform shall not address or mingle with spectators, nor sit in the stands before, during, or after a game. No manager, coach or player shall address any spectator before or during a game. Players of opposing teams shall not fraternize at any time while in uniform.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Well, it is a rule. But, Torre didn't seem to have a problem with it when he was with the Yankees.

3.09
Players in uniform shall not address or mingle with spectators, nor sit in the stands before, during, or after a game. No manager, coach or player shall address any spectator before or during a game. Players of opposing teams shall not fraternize at any time while in uniform.

Wondering ipitch, is this the current rule. I guess maybe they just overlook player fraternizing as they did many years ago.
I really don't get that, what is the harm with opposing players having a few words with players from the other team.

[Bulldog19]

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=16505329

I'm sure this pitcher will likely be suspended and probably should be. But I want to know when this home plate umpire is going to grow a thicker skin.. nothing like a quick trigger!

[ipitch]

Wondering ipitch, is this the current rule. I guess maybe they just overlook player fraternizing as they did many years ago.
I really don't get that, what is the harm with opposing players having a few words with players from the other team.

Yes, it's the current rule.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't like to tune into a playoff game and see two opponents laughing and having a good time with each other before the game. It makes it seem like winning isn't that important to them. I like watching an intense game between two teams that hate each other.

[Bulldog19]

Who better to be in the middle of controversey with balks?

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=16579187

And again grabbing coaches too!

[KHenry14]

Who better to be in the middle of controversey with balks?

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=16579187

And again grabbing coaches too!

Good Grief, Hernandez again??? WORST UMPIRE CREW EVER!

[metfan13]

Good Grief, Hernandez again??? WORST UMPIRE CREW EVER!

Definitely. Hernandez has been bad since say 1. West has gotten worse over the years.

[Blue387]

I think there should be a poll of least favorite umpires. Joe West would probably garner more than a few votes.

[metfan13]

I think there should be a poll of least favorite umpires. Joe West would probably garner more than a few votes.

I think if youlre talking pure incompetence plus crap attitude it's Hernandez easily. CB Bucknor is as bad an ump as Hernandez, but without the attitude and West is the more obnoxious, but Hernandez is the perfect storm of all things wrong with umpires.

[Bulldog19]

Long night for the Marlins...

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=16609869
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=16612503

And the unprofessionalism of umpires continues as well. In the second one, the umpire lets the whole world know the conversation is going on. That's an automatic ejection if the catcher does it..

[Michael Green]

The other day, Chipper Jones was complaining about how incompetent the officiating is. I would note that Chipper Jones has a lifetime batting average of about .300. That would mean that he is successful 3/10 of the time at his main job. I have never seen an umpire with that low a percentage.

Yes, I'm being snarky, and I don't disagree about bad calls. But I also know that many umpires have said the swipe tag is their toughest call. There was an incredibly close one in a Dodgers game the other night and Vin Scully noted that we have the replay and a lot of different angles, and it still wasn't conclusive.

[metfan13]

This is true. There are tough calls. And as long as the ump is in the best position he can be and makes the best effort he can then there's not much you can say, unless the same guys tend to miss the same calls. Then maybe they're not good enough. And the one's who are not in the right position, because they're out of shape or lazy should also be sent packing. And any ump whose replay to strike calls references "their" strike zone should be given a pink slip. There's one strike zone. Call it. We can allow for the variance in different people's eyes to account for some differences but not someone's decision to enforce something other than what's in the rules.