Results 1 to 22 of 22

Thread: What is "collapsing the back side" ?

  1. #1

    What is "collapsing the back side" ?

    Sometimes I read about a swing fault called "collapsing the back side"... associated with a loopy, uppercut swing.

    Now, personally, I'm a fan of the 1-plane uppercut swing, call it loopy if you will.

    What is "collapsing the back side"? Is it a real flaw? Is it overdiagnosed? Is it a pejorative used by the "swing down to create backspin" crowd to bash the folks who uppercut? Is it just a lack of forward weight transfer?

    I mean, songtitle has this huge emphasis on the initial "move" that involves dropping the back shoulder. Can you do this (or, "how do you do this") without the dreaded back side collapse?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Daytona Beach
    Posts
    140
    Blog Entries
    3
    Collapsing the back side is simply having the back shoulder dropping at a level below the front shoulder. It's often the result of a hitter trying to create lift on the ball or having too long of a stride. Yes I think it is a real flaw, but I also believe , like every other mechanical flaw, is subject to being, as you put it, "over-diagnosed". The truth is, there are players in the big leagues that have a slight tilt of the front shoulder and still are able to make consistent contact. There is an exception to every rule I suppose.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    2,897
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Brooks View Post
    Collapsing the back side is simply having the back shoulder dropping at a level below the front shoulder. It's often the result of a hitter trying to create lift on the ball or having too long of a stride. Yes I think it is a real flaw, but I also believe , like every other mechanical flaw, is subject to being, as you put it, "over-diagnosed". The truth is, there are players in the big leagues that have a slight tilt of the front shoulder and still are able to make consistent contact. There is an exception to every rule I suppose.
    I'd like some further explanation of what you mean by this. Any decent MLBer's back shoulder is lower than the front one unless they are swinging at a pitch well up at rib/letters height.






  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Southeast
    Posts
    6,102
    collapsing the back side
    It's a non-sensical term that doesn't mean anything. People say it when they know something is wrong, but they don't know what it is.
    eFastball.com hitting and pitching fact checker

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Brooks View Post
    Collapsing the back side is simply having the back shoulder dropping at a level below the front shoulder.
    Based on this definition, I would say there are some (efastball.com for example) who believe that what you call "collapsing the back side" is actually "the secret to hitting".

    PS -- I am not trying to initate a debate of Camp A vs. Camp B. I am just trying to understand this term to see if it is universally seen as a fault, or if whether it is considered a fault is based on hitting philosophy.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    2,897
    Quote Originally Posted by bbrages View Post
    Sometimes I read about a swing fault called "collapsing the back side"... associated with a loopy, uppercut swing.

    Now, personally, I'm a fan of the 1-plane uppercut swing, call it loopy if you will.

    What is "collapsing the back side"? Is it a real flaw? Is it overdiagnosed? Is it a pejorative used by the "swing down to create backspin" crowd to bash the folks who uppercut? Is it just a lack of forward weight transfer?

    I mean, songtitle has this huge emphasis on the initial "move" that involves dropping the back shoulder. Can you do this (or, "how do you do this") without the dreaded back side collapse?
    Collapsing the backside is an overcompensation of trying to match the plane of the pitch and results in way too steep of an uppercut to the plane. Most likely the hitter is staying back too much (instead of transferring into the front side).

  7. #7
    the back shoulder being lower then the front shoulder is not what i call collapsing the back side.

    http://www.hittingacademy.com/ohalib...llapsepicx.jpg

    This is a good picture of what we are talking about. You see no major leaguers like this.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    9,193
    Quote Originally Posted by pb07bp View Post
    the back shoulder being lower then the front shoulder is not what i call collapsing the back side.

    http://www.hittingacademy.com/ohalib...llapsepicx.jpg

    This is a good picture of what we are talking about. You see no major leaguers like this.






    This might be a valid criticism if you are talking about squishing the bug being bad, but I don't think that's what they are referring to.

  9. #9
    What I identify as collapsing the back side is an early(before swing launch) drop of the back shoulder and/or hands and/or no weight transfer or even negative weight shift at swing launch causing excessive hinging of the back knee which in turn makes the swing plane steepen too much. 2 separate problems that would require different fixes, but I would call both of these collapsing the back side.
    Last edited by bamajeff; 05-13-2011 at 08:00 AM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    1,114
    Collapsing the back side occurs when the hitter does not stride to balance. What happens when a backside collapse occurs varies from hitter to hitter. Most uppercut more than they should (30-35 degrees up, rather than 5-10)

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by pstein View Post
    Most uppercut more than they should (30-35 degrees up, rather than 5-10)
    Most hitters, or most collapsers?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by bamajeff View Post
    What I identify as collapsing the back side is an early(before swing launch) drop of the back shoulder and/or hands and/or no weight transfer or even negative weight shift at swing launch causing excessive hinging of the knee which in turn makes the swing plane steepen too much. 2 separate problems that would require different fixes, but I would call both of these collapsing the back side.
    Agreed

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Daytona Beach
    Posts
    140
    Blog Entries
    3
    I was assuming that we were talking about a pre-swing movement. I can't argue that the back shoulder is indeed lower than the front especially when a hitter is hitting the inner half of the ball, but this is a movement that is the result out of an adjustment being made. Not nessasarily a consistent part of a swing.

  14. #14
    Here's my swing:



    it looks good altogether, but if you stop it at one particular frame, you can see this position:



    I'm hitting a lot of foulballs / popups / miss under the ball.

    Maybe this is the "collapsing of the back side", not sure if it has something to do with the misses, but it could be the reason, because I'm focusing on driving the ball straight back like a line drive.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny89 View Post
    Here's my swing:



    it looks good altogether, but if you stop it at one particular frame, you can see this position:



    I'm hitting a lot of foulballs / popups / miss under the ball.

    Maybe this is the "collapsing of the back side", not sure if it has something to do with the misses, but it could be the reason, because I'm focusing on driving the ball straight back like a line drive.



    Johnny,
    Have you seen this "Hole in the Swing" tutorial? Might help.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjlrLwq7qM0

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny89 View Post
    Here's my swing:



    it looks good altogether, but if you stop it at one particular frame, you can see this position:



    I'm hitting a lot of foulballs / popups / miss under the ball.

    Maybe this is the "collapsing of the back side", not sure if it has something to do with the misses, but it could be the reason, because I'm focusing on driving the ball straight back like a line drive.
    I think that you are not getting to a 50-50 position at toe touch. Your weight on the back side is not making a positive movement toward the pitcher. When you land most of your weight is still on the back side, which is not 50-50 position. Does not look like a bad swing otherwise.

    For the bottom position I analyzed your position with four pros. A-rod, Manny, Magglio, and Pujols. All of them had better posture. Work on getting to a better 50-50 position with your back bone more upright at toe touch. I think in your current position it will be tough to hit a high pitch well. If I saw this video I would pitch you high.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Auburn, CA
    Posts
    2,822
    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny89 View Post
    Here's my swing:



    it looks good altogether, but if you stop it at one particular frame, you can see this position:



    I'm hitting a lot of foulballs / popups / miss under the ball.

    Maybe this is the "collapsing of the back side", not sure if it has something to do with the misses, but it could be the reason, because I'm focusing on driving the ball straight back like a line drive.
    Do you hit a lot of balls on the handle side of the sweet spot? I wouldn't say your colapsing on the back side but rather pulling the bat around. Look at the position you are in in the still pic. All you can do from there is pull the bat around and then push it. I would do drills to help you learn to use your hands better.

    JMHO

  18. #18
    BamaJeff said: What I identify as collapsing the back side is an early(before swing launch) drop of the back shoulder and/or hands and/or no weight transfer or even negative weight shift at swing launch causing excessive hinging of the knee which in turn makes the swing plane steepen too much. 2 separate problems that would require different fixes, but I would call both of these collapsing the back side.
    Nicely put - and it feeds nicely into this analysis of Johnny's swing:

    Quote Originally Posted by pb07bp View Post
    I think that you are not getting to a 50-50 position at toe touch. Your weight on the back side is not making a positive movement toward the pitcher. When you land most of your weight is still on the back side, which is not 50-50 position. Does not look like a bad swing otherwise.
    Like many young hitters, Johnny starts his weight shift and then stops it before front heel drop, so his weight just drops straight down rather than into the front heel, like a javelin driving into the turf. So, the dropping of the back shoulder is more of a 'collapse' like PB07 detects.
    It's not whether you fall -- everyone does -- but how you come out of the fall that counts.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Southeast
    Posts
    6,102
    Johnny, if you want to tweek your weight shift, just keep your front knee back a little longer prior to toe touch. Notice how your front knee is "reaching" before toe touch.
    eFastball.com hitting and pitching fact checker

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    137
    I'm pretty sure "collapsing the back side" is what happens about 30 minutes after your post-game visit to Taco Bell.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Kan-Man View Post
    I'm pretty sure "collapsing the back side" is what happens about 30 minutes after your post-game visit to Taco Bell.
    For me that's a collapse from the front side.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by The Uncoach View Post
    Collapsing the backside is an overcompensation of trying to match the plane of the pitch and results in way too steep of an uppercut to the plane. Most likely the hitter is staying back too much (instead of transferring into the front side).
    Sorry, didn't mean to post on an old thread, just reading for education.
    Last edited by heretolearn; 04-03-2012 at 11:56 AM. Reason: Sorry, old thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •