Thank you Omar.

[AJbaseball00024]

In 2006 I remember Omar preaching the importance of having a great bullpen in this day and age when starters are usually done after 6. He kept hammering this point as we watched the 2006 Mets dominate in no small part to their great bullpen. Omar even backed his belief of a lockdown pen when in reaction to the devastating injury to Duaner Sanchez he traded away Xavier Nady, a very important productive righty bat for Roberto Hernandez and Oliver Perez. Losing Nady was a huge hit to the offense in regards to hitting lefty pitchers.

For some inexplicable reason, Omar ignored his own preachings by letting Darren Oliver walk, as well as letting Chad Bradford walk. Not re-signing Bradford killed me and eventually killed the Mets. The guy had a great year for the Mets and had pitched 15.1 post-season innings up until that point in his career without having allowed a run. I remember being steamed as I watched Bradford pitch in the 2008 WS for Tampa Bay. Bradford pitched 8 post season innings that year and gave up his first and only run to Boston in the ALCS.

How could Omar chance letting two very productive bullpen members go when a third productive member in Duaner Sanchez was injured with a severe shoulder injury? Well he did, and the bullpen played a huge roll in the collapses of 2007, and 2008.

If Omar had stuck to his early emphasis on a dominating pen, things may have, and probably would have turned out differently for the Mets the following two years.

I honestly believe that if that bullpen did not **** the bed in 2007 and 2008, Santana wins the Cy Young and we probably make and maybe win the World Series. This is why Omar sucks.

[Paulypal]

I honestly believe that if that bullpen did not **** the bed in 2007 and 2008, Santana wins the Cy Young and we probably make and maybe win the World Series. This is why Omar sucks.

Omar probably has a good eye for talent. Probably.

Other than that I find it hard to thank him for anything. Except for some of the most entertaining press conferences ever. The last two years Omar was nothing but an embarassment.

[Mongoose]

Omar probably has a good eye for talent. Probably.

Other than that I find it hard to thank him for anything. Except for some of the most entertaining press conferences ever. The last two years Omar was nothing but an embarassment.

We're near the end of June. Wright was hurt or out all year. Santana's been out all year. Looks like Ike will be out the rest of the year. The team is still at .500 - who would have imagined? Except for Turner and Capuano all these guys are Omar's. Almost none of the contributors were blue chip prospects. With two exceptions Omar wasn't allowed to go over slot for high ceiling arms. Still we're seeing good results from gutty guys like Gee and Niese.

I think he certainly did have a good eye for talent. Some of the larger free agent signings and high profile moves were mistakes, but I tend to think these had greater Wilpon involvement. The areas he was certainly in control of - later round draft picks and low profile signings - are looking pretty good.

This is a decent team. With better health and a couple of better relievers they'd certainly be in the hunt for the Wild Card. I think Omar's work as GM is quite underrated.

[metsfan88]

I dont think Omar is underrated I think he did a pretty good job at digging this team into a hole. He always seemed to focus on the area that the Mets had the biggest need (bullpen, starting pitching, offense) but he spent so much time and money on that area that the rest of the team would end up suffering. He just never seemed to put together a complete team. And there never seemed to be depth because he always spent too much money on big name players. The thing is the Mets have and had a great core of players during Omar's tenure. All he needed to do is fill the roster with a depth of decent to good players.

[Mongoose]

I dont think Omar is underrated I think he did a pretty good job at digging this team into a hole. He always seemed to focus on the area that the Mets had the biggest need (bullpen, starting pitching, offense) but he spent so much time and money on that area that the rest of the team would end up suffering. He just never seemed to put together a complete team. And there never seemed to be depth because he always spent too much money on big name players. The thing is the Mets have and had a great core of players during Omar's tenure. All he needed to do is fill the roster with a depth of decent to good players.

Affordable depth usually comes from the farm system.

Think: Who was ready to come up to the majors and fill roles when Omar took over? Got any names?

The farm system was a shambles when Omar arrived. The Wilpons never spent money in the draft. Their puppet GMs never drafted well. As a result, instead of rookie scale contracts for these kinds of players Omar had to sign more expensive veterans or fish players out of the dumpster. The strategy you're talking about preceded Omar. It was a Wilpon strategy. The only other GM who was able to do anything with the farm system with the non-resources Fred and Jeff provided was Joe McIlvaine.

Omar finally built depth to go with the sprinkling of stars. He did it on a shoestring. This is what I give him credit for. I also must correct myself. I'd forgotten Turner was actually picked off the waiver wire last year. Justin Turner was an Omar Minaya acquisition as well.

[metsfan88]

How can you say Omar created depth when he traded away most of the farm system during his tenure. I am certainly not saying he had it easy and that he did a terrible job. There were a few things he did well. But in my opinion this team is not that much better after Omar.

[Mongoose]

How can you say Omar created depth when he traded away most of the farm system during his tenure. I am certainly not saying he had it easy and that he did a terrible job. There were a few things he did well. But in my opinion this team is not that much better after Omar.

Once again, names please. Who the heck was there in the minors? Outside of Heath Bell, who was any good elsewhere?

Wilpon & Son never spent on draft picks, so Omar had to go for guys who were perceived to have limited potential: Like Neise, Gee, Murphy, Turner, etc. - the guys who are helping the club now. He did the best he could with what he had. The frustrating thing about the Wilpon era was regardless of GM they'd seldom get the prize free agent, but overspend for the cheaper option. This made payrolls high with little to show for it. This is a strategy that preceded Omar, so I don't blame him for it.

Was he perfect? Certainly not. If he'd been given a decent budget in the draft so his ability to judge talent could have been better used I suspect the Mets would be in much better shape now.

[PVNICK]

The big prizes meaning A-Rod and Vlad to name two that were kinda dismissed and in A Rod's case bad mouthed to the press. Were there any others?

[metsfan88]

Well the most recent was Bay or Halliday.

[CokeMachineGlow]

Once again, names please. Who the heck was there in the minors? Outside of Heath Bell, who was any good elsewhere?

Wilpon & Son never spent on draft picks, so Omar had to go for guys who were perceived to have limited potential: Like Neise, Gee, Murphy, Turner, etc. - the guys who are helping the club now. He did the best he could with what he had. The frustrating thing about the Wilpon era was regardless of GM they'd seldom get the prize free agent, but overspend for the cheaper option. This made payrolls high with little to show for it. This is a strategy that preceded Omar, so I don't blame him for it.

Was he perfect? Certainly not. If he'd been given a decent budget in the draft so his ability to judge talent could have been better used I suspect the Mets would be in much better shape now.

Jason Vargas, Jeff Keppinger, and Matt Lindstrom are the only players I can think of. BTW, Turner was drafted by the Orioles, not Mets.

[Mongoose]

Just reviving this discussion, since Strawman had brought up the point.

Fred and Jeff were in charge of the large expenditures like big free agent signings - this was the main arena where they'd play GM themselves. It's therefore no surprise those signings were generally poor. Omar, meanwhile, had to make something out of nothing with what was left. He had to dumpster dive for spare parts and found guys like Dickey, Tatis, Pagan, Turner, and more. With no bonus money to sign blue chip prospects, he found guys like Murphy, Duda, Tejada, Thole and more in the mid to late rounds.

I think Omar did a commendable job. If ownership had resigned Reyes and filled in some gaps in the pitching staff, the Mets would be a pretty legitimate Wild Card contender now. That's how good a job Omar did - and make no mistake: despite a large overall payroll he was working on a shoestring.

[Strawman]

Just reviving this discussion, since Strawman had brought up the point.

Fred and Jeff were in charge of the large expenditures like big free agent signings - this was the main arena where they'd play GM themselves. It's therefore no surprise those signings were generally poor. Omar, meanwhile, had to make something out of nothing with what was left. He had to dumpster dive for spare parts and found guys like Dickey, Tatis, Pagan, Turner, and more. With no bonus money to sign blue chip prospects, he found guys like Murphy, Duda, Tejada, Thole and more in the mid to late rounds.

I think Omar did a commendable job. If ownership had resigned Reyes and filled in some gaps in the pitching staff, the Mets would be a pretty legitimate Wild Card contender now. That's how good a job Omar did - and make no mistake: despite a large overall payroll he was working on a shoestring.

Yeah this is exactly right - yeah we can all agree Omar wasn't great at doing the PR (though Alderson's living on borrowed honeymoon time himself) and he was even worse at telling the Wilpons no, but he did do a commendable job. Mets fans who are happy with the team's modest improvement this year have Minaya to thank, in terms of talent acquisition.

[CokeMachineGlow]

I hardly call it commendable. He was able to come out victorious in a few blockbuster trades, but his efforts and management were all together average. Not the worst, but not commendable-worthy.

[Strawman]

I hardly call it commendable. He was able to come out victorious in a few blockbuster trades, but his efforts and management were all together average. Not the worst, but not commendable-worthy.

Well consider this, then. Winning percentages under some recent Mets General Managers:

Frank Cashen
984-898
.523
Pretty much the reference standard for all-time Mets GMs. WS title.

Omar Minaya
506-466
.521
Shockingly close to Cashen, but without (sadly) the WS title. However, second best winning percentage run as GM in Mets history.

Bob Scheffing
402-401
.501
Glory years early 70s GM after Johnny Murphy, who led Mets to '69 title but whose W-L record is way below .500.

Richard "Sandy" Alderson
98-103
.488
Yes, too small a sample to really consider with the three all-time front office guys head of him.

[CokeMachineGlow]

Alderson is dealing with considerably less talent than the previous GM's. It's pointless to compare them to him at the moment.

[Strawman]

Alderson is dealing with considerably less talent than the previous GM's. It's pointless to compare them to him at the moment.

The point wasn't to knock/defend Alderson - I noted it's too early to compare anyway (the talent level will, of course, be at least partially his choice!) - the point is to show Omar's relative strength among all GMs in New York Mets history.

[Paulypal]

The point wasn't to knock/defend Alderson - I noted it's too early to compare anyway (the talent level will, of course, be at least partially his choice!) - the point is to show Omar's relative strength among all GMs in New York Mets history.

Omar was given $140 million dollar payroll no other GM ever got close.

End this thread now. It is ridiculous. The only thing I will thank Omar for is some of the most hilarious interviews by a mental midget that I have ever heard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amxTBFn0YpM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IP85...endscreen&NR=1

Nothing but good times man!. Stay thirsty my friends.

[Strawman]

Omar was given $140 million dollar payroll no other GM ever got close.

End this thread now. It is ridiculous. The only thing I will thank Omar for is some of the most hilarious interviews by a mental midget that I have ever heard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amxTBFn0YpM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IP85...endscreen&NR=1

Nothing but good times man!. Stay thirsty my friends.

Nice job by the "mental midget" then, leading the Mets to the second best record as GM in team history. Sure, he had his issues but your response is frankly lacking in analysis and actual thought - you're reacting only to style points....and yes, Minaya lost on all style points required by the modern corporate-style GM.

Further, Minaya wasn't "handed $140 million" - that's both simplistic and inaccurate. His tenure payrolls were:

2004 - $100M
2005 - $104M
2006 - $101M
2007 - $115M
2008 - $137M
2009 - $135M
2010 - $132M

Average - $117M (Note: Alderson's first-year Mets payroll was $120M)

And the Wilpons were clearly driving the size of the payroll - you've said so yourself! You've said it 1,000 times - the owners set the budget, not the GM.

Finally, Omar didn't have the full big market budget to put the Mets over the top. He had to scramble to fill out the roster with talent. And he did a decent job. as Mongoose said:

Omar, meanwhile, had to make something out of nothing with what was left. He had to dumpster dive for spare parts and found guys like Dickey, Tatis, Pagan, Turner, and more. With no bonus money to sign blue chip prospects, he found guys like Murphy, Duda, Tejada, Thole and more in the mid to late rounds.

Exactly. Minaya had his faults, but let's please be honest about what he did and didn't actually accomplish.

[Blue387]

Omar's press conference after resigning Oliver Perez:

[Ralf]

Nice job by the "mental midget" then, leading the Mets to the second best record as GM in team history. Sure, he had his issues but your response is frankly lacking in analysis and actual thought - you're reacting only to style points....and yes, Minaya lost on all style points required by the modern corporate-style GM.

Further, Minaya wasn't "handed $140 million" - that's both simplistic and inaccurate. His tenure payrolls were:

2004 - $100M
2005 - $104M
2006 - $101M
2007 - $115M
2008 - $137M
2009 - $135M
2010 - $132M

Average - $117M (Note: Alderson's first-year Mets payroll was $120M)

And the Wilpons were clearly driving the size of the payroll - you've said so yourself! You've said it 1,000 times - the owners set the budget, not the GM.

Finally, Omar didn't have the full big market budget to put the Mets over the top. He had to scramble to fill out the roster with talent. And he did a decent job. as Mongoose said:

Exactly. Minaya had his faults, but let's please be honest about what he did and didn't actually accomplish.

This post is so incredibly disingenuous (shocker). First of all, the fact that you actually counted the 2011 payroll to Sandy says it all. That was 99% Omar's team and payroll still, as is a large part of this year. It just shows that you have zero argument so you have to distort the truth to make your point. Second, Omar came in at the end of the 2004 season so that wasn't his payroll. HOWEVER, he did have the luxury of considerable dollars coming off the payroll for 2005, giving him enormous flexibility to add $30m that year alone for just 2 players. In 2 years of being the GM, Alderson has had LESS than that to add to the team. Third, Omar was probably the worst GM I've ever seen at roster management. He continually let the 25 man roster linger for days with a man down before he would make a bumbling decision. Fourth, in the history of the franchise, no GM has had more money to spend over his tenure and failed to produce. He routinely left himself little payroll flexibility to add to the teams down the stretch so that we were blessed with 2 consecutive years of historic collapses. Brilliant. Lastly, if you choose to give him full credit for the entire draft each year, than it must be said that he not once drafted an annual All Star type player. Most of the guys playing now that came up to the system are just good pieces to a team. However, as I said many times, the GM has little to do with the mid to late rounds. His biggest task is the first few rounds and by that measure, Omar was a complete failure. Through his tenure, his first picks were as follows:

2005 - Mike Pelfrey (could have had Jay Bruce instead)
2006 - no first rounder
2007 - Eddie Kunz & Nathan Vineyard (brilliant picks there)
2008 - Ike Davis (jury still out) & Reese Havens (looks like a bust)
2009 - Brad Holt (another doozy)
2010 - Matt Harvey (jury still out)

If scouting was Omar's strength as some say, maybe he should consider a new career......

[redban]

Well consider this, then. Winning percentages under some recent Mets General Managers:

Frank Cashen
984-898
.523
Pretty much the reference standard for all-time Mets GMs. WS title.

Omar Minaya
506-466
.521
Shockingly close to Cashen, but without (sadly) the WS title. However, second best winning percentage run as GM in Mets history.

Bob Scheffing
402-401
.501
Glory years early 70s GM after Johnny Murphy, who led Mets to '69 title but whose W-L record is way below .500.

Richard "Sandy" Alderson
98-103
.488
Yes, too small a sample to really consider with the three all-time front office guys head of him.

Steve Phillips (1997-2003)
502 - 441
.532

Does that mean Steve Phillips is the greatest GM in Mets history?

I know he got Piazza, but what about Burnitz, Mo Vaughn, and Roberto Alomar?

[Strawman]

Steve Phillips (1997-2003)
502 - 441
.532

Does that mean Steve Phillips is the greatest GM in Mets history?

I know he got Piazza, but what about Burnitz, Mo Vaughn, and Roberto Alomar?

Yeah good point about Phillips - no he's not the greatest GM but he did have some success. Cashen's obviously the best in the pantheon. Phillips had personal issues we all recall rather clearly. But you have to give him Piazza over those other two guys, I think. And he took the team to one WS.

[Paulypal]

The second best record of any GM in a historically failed organization. Terrific.

[redban]

Third best

Steve Phillips and Frank Cashen had better records.

[EasilyFound]

This thread proves the point that you can make just about any point with statistics.