BBF Progressive HoF Election: 2015

[jjpm74]

This thread should be moved to the Progressive HOF sub forum since it is the last non-annual thread and the one that has the most complete progressive HOF.

This thread should also be moved to that sub forum:

http://www.baseball-fever.com/showth...lection-Thread

[SavoyBG]

Guys, wondering why these players are not listed as a DH for their primary positions?

Molitor - games by position:
3B - 791
2B - 400
1B - 197
DH - 1174

Thomas - games played:
1B - 971
DH - 1310

Check out the title of his Wikipedia article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Thom ... ted_hitter)

[Cowtipper]

I was giddy as a little schoolgirl when I saw this. I thought we were doing another election. I hope there's another one coming up this year.

[SavoyBG]

Here's my picks for a team of players made up of the best players at each position who are inducted here but not in Cooperstown. Only players who are eligible for Cooperstown are included.

Catcher - Bill Freehan
First Base - Jeff Bagwell
Second Base - Bobby Grich
Third Base - Stan Hack
Shortstop - Bill Dahlen
Left Field - Tim Raines
Center Field - George Gore
Right Field - Bobby Bonds
Starting Pitcher - Bob Caruthers, Wes Ferrell, Carl Mays, Tony Mullane
Designated Hitter - Edgar Martinez

[BigRon]

Guys, wondering why these players are not listed as a DH for their primary positions?

Molitor - games by position:
3B - 791
2B - 400
1B - 197
DH - 1174

Thomas - games played:
1B - 971
DH - 1310

Check out the title of his Wikipedia article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Thom ... ted_hitter)

Hmmm..... well, as we all know, DH is not a position- it's a spot in the batting order. But, I get your drift. If it was up to me, I'd place each guy who's role was primarily as DH at the position where he played the most. For Thomas- 1B, for EMartinez- 3B, for Molitor- 3B. That seems most reasonable to me.

[SavoyBG]

Hmmm..... well, as we all know, DH is not a position- it's a spot in the batting order. But, I get your drift. If it was up to me, I'd place each guy who's role was primarily as DH at the position where he played the most. For Thomas- 1B, for EMartinez- 3B, for Molitor- 3B. That seems most reasonable to me.

Why would you consider it reasonable to put Martinez at 3B when he only played 564 games there in his entire career? The guy was clearly a DH. You may not like the rule, but that is not relevant here.

[BigRon]

Why would you consider it reasonable to put Martinez at 3B when he only played 564 games there in his entire career? The guy was clearly a DH. You may not like the rule, but that is not relevant here.

I never said I didn't like the rule. What I said is that DH is NOT a position, and that is correct. It is a place in the batting order, not a defensive position.

[SavoyBG]

I never said I didn't like the rule. What I said is that DH is NOT a position, and that is correct. It is a place in the batting order, not a defensive position.

No one said that it's a "defensive position" It is a position in the batting order, and thus, a position in the game. They give a silver slugger every year to the best hitting DH, so it is recognized as a position.

[BigRon]

No one said that it's a "defensive position" It is a position in the batting order, and thus, a position in the game. They give a silver slugger every year to the best hitting DH, so it is recognized as a position.

Well, I've said my piece. We'll agree to disagree. If you think it is a position, check on BB-REF and look at the defensive stats for any modern-day AL player who was used as a DH.

[SavoyBG]

Well, I've said my piece. We'll agree to disagree. If you think it is a position, check on BB-REF and look at the defensive stats for any modern-day AL player who was used as a DH.

Why would I look at defensive stats for an offensive position?

But since you mentioned it, they do list DH in the yearly defensive stats at BB-REF. They just don't give you a career total at the bottom.

Paul Molitor
Standard Fielding

Year Tm Lg Age Pos G GS
1978 MIL AL 21 2B 91 87 86 784.1 492 197 283 12 57 .976 4 5 5.51 5.27 .980 5.47 5.42 RoY-2
1978 MIL AL 21 SS 31 31 30 271.0 182 54 118 10 17 .945 2 10 5.71 5.55 .964 4.92 4.87 RoY-2
1978 MIL AL 21 3B 1 1 0 7.0 2 2 0 0 0 1.000 -0 -86 2.57 2.00 .955 2.96 3.00 RoY-2
1978 MIL AL 21 DH 1 1 RoY-2
1979 MIL AL 22 2B 122 121 119 1075.2 717 289 413 15 81 .979 5 6 5.87 5.75 .978 5.50 5.43 MVP-20
1979 MIL AL 22 SS 10 9 9 89.0 48 20 27 1 3 .979 -2 -20 4.75 4.70 .965 5.01 4.95 MVP-20
1979 MIL AL 22 DH 8 8 MVP-20
1980 MIL AL 23 2B 91 90 86 798.1 550 240 294 16 80 .971 -3 -4 6.02 5.87 .981 5.60 5.58 AS
1980 MIL AL 23 SS 12 11 11 99.0 64 19 41 4 10 .938 -1 -12 5.45 5.00 .963 4.99 4.98 AS
1980 MIL AL 23 DH 7 7 AS
1980 MIL AL 23 3B 1 1 1 9.0 2 1 1 0 0 1.000 -0 -13 2.00 2.00 .950 3.00 3.00 AS
1981 MIL AL 24 OF 46 48 45 421.2 126 119 4 3 1 .976 -1 -2 2.63 2.67 .983 2.48 2.47
1981 MIL AL 24 CF 44 44 41 385.2 119 113 4 2 1 .983 -2 -5 2.73 2.66 .988 2.90 2.89
1981 MIL AL 24 DH 15 15
1981 MIL AL 24 RF 4 4 4 36.0 9 8 0 1 0 .889 1 27 2.00 2.00 .980 2.15 2.15
1982 MIL AL 25 3B 150 150 145 1338.1 497 128 340 29 48 .942 -1 -1 3.15 3.12 .954 3.07 3.05 MVP-12
1982 MIL AL 25 DH 6 6 MVP-12
1982 MIL AL 25 SS 4 3 3 27.0 19 6 10 3 0 .842 -2 -98 5.33 4.00 .965 4.87 4.85 MVP-12
1983 MIL AL 26 3B 146 147 144 1297.1 464 105 343 16 37 .966 8 7 3.11 3.07 .955 3.07 3.05
1984 MIL AL 27 3B 7 7 7 63.0 30 7 21 2 3 .933 1 23 4.00 4.00 .950 2.74 2.73
1984 MIL AL 27 DH 3 3
1985 MIL AL 28 3B 135 133 129 1168.0 408 126 263 19 30 .953 3 3 3.00 2.88 .953 2.85 2.82 AS
1985 MIL AL 28 DH 4 4 AS
1986 MIL AL 29 3B 91 91 89 804.0 267 82 170 15 25 .944 0 0 2.82 2.77 .948 2.74 2.71
1986 MIL AL 29 DH 10 10
1986 MIL AL 29 LF 4 4 3 34.0 5 4 1 0 0 1.000 -1 -49 1.32 1.25 .976 2.25 2.22
1986 MIL AL 29 OF 4 4 3 34.0 5 4 1 0 0 1.000 -1 -49 1.32 1.25 .980 2.38 2.38
1987 MIL AL 30 DH 58 58 MVP-5,SS
1987 MIL AL 30 3B 41 40 30 329.0 94 25 64 5 8 .947 -4 -16 2.43 2.17 .952 2.77 2.74 MVP-5,SS
1987 MIL AL 30 2B 19 18 16 165.0 84 35 49 0 16 1.000 4 31 4.58 4.42 .980 5.12 5.06 MVP-5,SS
1988 MIL AL 31 3B 105 104 88 896.0 290 86 187 17 15 .941 1 2 2.74 2.60 .954 2.71 2.69 AS,MVP-8,SS
1988 MIL AL 31 DH 49 49 AS,MVP-8,SS
1988 MIL AL 31 2B 1 1 0 8.0 2 1 1 0 0 1.000 0 0 2.25 2.00 .980 5.18 5.10 AS,MVP-8,SS
1989 MIL AL 32 3B 112 112 98 968.1 338 78 243 17 18 .950 1 2 2.98 2.87 .943 2.73 2.70
1989 MIL AL 32 DH 28 28
1989 MIL AL 32 2B 16 15 12 123.0 73 28 44 1 9 .986 1 7 5.27 4.50 .981 5.24 5.18
1990 MIL AL 33 2B 60 60 49 503.1 330 136 190 4 36 .988 -1 -3 5.83 5.43 .984 5.23 5.18
1990 MIL AL 33 1B 37 36 32 311.0 355 325 25 5 28 .986 -1 -4 10.13 9.46 .992 9.63 9.53
1990 MIL AL 33 DH 4 4
1990 MIL AL 33 3B 2 2 2 18.0 10 2 7 1 1 .900 0 33 4.50 4.50 .944 2.75 2.75
1991 MIL AL 34 DH 112 112 AS,MVP-11
1991 MIL AL 34 1B 46 46 40 406.2 427 389 32 6 52 .986 0 1 9.32 9.15 .992 9.75 9.74 AS,MVP-11
1992 MIL AL 35 DH 108 108 AS,MVP-10
1992 MIL AL 35 1B 48 48 44 425.2 489 461 26 2 44 .996 -1 -3 10.30 10.15 .993 9.68 9.64 AS,MVP-10
1993 TOR AL 36 DH 137 137 AS,MVP-2,SS
1993 TOR AL 36 1B 23 23 22 206.0 195 178 14 3 16 .985 -1 -6 8.39 8.35 .993 9.57 9.48 AS,MVP-2,SS
1994 TOR AL 37 DH 110 110 AS,MVP-18
1994 TOR AL 37 1B 5 5 5 44.0 50 47 3 0 6 1.000 -1 -35 10.23 10.00 .992 9.57 9.48 AS,MVP-18
1995 TOR AL 38 DH 129 129
1996 MIN AL 39 DH 143 143 MVP-13,SS
1996 MIN AL 39 1B 17 17 16 145.2 152 138 13 1 13 .993 0 0 9.33 8.88 .992 9.24 9.18 MVP-13,SS
1997 MIN AL 40 DH 121 121
1997 MIN AL 40 1B 12 12 9 97.1 107 99 7 1 6 .991 0 1 9.80 8.83 .992 9.31 9.23
1998 MIN AL 41 DH 115 115
1998 MIN AL 41 1B 9 9 8 74.0 86 79 7 0 4 1.000 -2 -31 10.46 9.56 .992

[SavoyBG]

Here are the highest career WAR totals for players who are eligible but are not yet inducted into this HOF.

Rank Player (yrs, age) Wins Above Replacement Bats/Throws
92. Jim Edmonds (17) 67.9 L
96. Larry Walker (17) 67.3 L
109. Rafael Palmeiro (20) 66.0 L
112. Kenny Lofton (17) 65.3 L
Rick Reuschel (19) 65.3 R
121. Kevin Brown (19) 64.0 R
128. Gary Sheffield (22) 63.3 R
131. Mark McGwire (16) 63.1 R

[SavoyBG]

Ace, in the list of pitchers who are inducted there's a couple of mistakes.

Lefty Grove, Tom Glavine, Carl Hubbell,

Glavine is out of alphabetical order.

Joe McCormick

Should be "Jim" McCormick, not Joe.

[Ace Venom]

Replying to a few points en masse:

-As far as the goofs in the list go, I'll fix those in the near future.
-I don't remember my justification for not first listing Molitor as a DH.
-There will be another election, but not now.

[Cowtipper]

So, about that other election....

[Ace Venom]

So, about that other election....

I'm ending this project. I thought long and hard about doing another election, but I don't have a lot of motivation to do this anymore.