Why does baseball have minor leagues?

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Yes, his improvement was so "staggering" as the months went by, that by seaon's end he was swatting a lusty .202.

Exactly. In the spring I doubt Jordan had even elite college level playing ability. By mid summer he was driving the ball and having much better pitch recognition, and leaning baseball instincts.

Almost makes you wonder why he retired again, and went back to basketball.

The 1995 baseball strike had some influence on him. Part of the reason he retired from the NBA the first time was that he was burned out according to him plus the recent death of his father always weighed heavily on him.

It was a joke from the beginning, as you yourself aknowledged a few posts back.

Where did I say it was a joke? All the negative press that Jordan got because of his lack of skill was form the spring. By mid summer some of these people had changed their tune. There was the famous SI cover with Jordan lunging at the ball. The author, Steve Wulf, wrote this in that April article.

He called the first base umpire "the ref." In the field, he played a single into a double and an out into a single. Though he moves well on the base paths, his best time to first base, 4.35 seconds, is slower than average. At bat he brings to mind a taller, righthanded Rich Gedman-the Walt Hriniak disciple who can no longer hit the ball out of the infield.

Then Wulf goes back in July to see Jordan and is surprised to what he saw.

I was totally blown away. He was a totally different player than the player I'd seen in spring training […] I was astounded! I said: 'My god. I was wrong. We were wrong! Sports Illustrated was wrong!'

Well, after that I wrote a little story saying guess what, Michael Jordan is actually becoming a professional baseball player. So, when I turned this in, they refused to run it. And it was clear that it wasn't substandard in execution or writing. They were being stubborn about their stance that Michael Jordan shouldn't be playing baseball.

He was never going to sniff the Majors, Terry Francona notwithstanding.

Right because you saw Jordan play every day in 1994 like Francona did. I think his perspective is far more accurate than yours is 16 years after the fact.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJc3aVv5hew

[ol' aches and pains]

Where did I say it was a joke?

Post #11: "Well no one thought Jordan was ever going to play in the majors based on merit. If Jordan thought he was going to make it he greatly overestimated his ability."

Right because you saw Jordan play every day in 1994 like Francona did. I think his perspective is far more accurate than yours is 16 years after the fact.

Then what were you thinking in post#11? Sorry, I'm not convinced. Living in Chicago at the time, I saw plenty of highlights from Birmingham on the local sportscasts. Did I mention he couldn't play defense either? I remember seeing video of Jordan dropping several routine fly balls that any competent professional outfileder would have easily caught.

[Captain Cold Nose]

How did this turn into a detailed thread on Michael Jordan?

Bring it home, folks.

[Captain Cold Nose]

How did this turn into a detailed thread on Michael Jordan?

Bring it home, folks.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

How did this turn into a detailed thread on Michael Jordan?

Bring it home, folks.

We can't chase rabbit trails? The Michael Jordan discussion still baseball related.

[Nutt]

In response to the OP, basketball and football do have a minor-league; it's the NCAA.

To the MJ comments....he was supposedly suspended for one-year for gambling. That was why he played baseball. Nobody even knows for sure but it is mentioned in the 30 for 30 "Jordan Rides the Bus". Michael quit in 1995 because they asked him to cross the picket lines and be a scab. MJ was a member of the NBPA previously and he opted not to cross because he wouldn't agree with it if the NBPA was on strike and the owners opted for replacement players.

[Captain Cold Nose]

We can't chase rabbit trails? The Michael Jordan discussion still baseball related.

It's kind of its own little argument, and seperate from the initial post.

[Seattle1]

Twenty-one players have debuted in the majors since the draft started in 1965. It happened quite a bit in the 1970's (13 times). This has become extremely rare with today's huge money given to top draft picks.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/feats/feats9.shtml

Also, there are some guys who do play in the MiLB, but come up to the MLB relatively quickly. Ken Griffey, Jr. was still a teenager when he started playing for the Seattle Mariners, for example.

[_sturt_]

Besides the development issues mentioned, a quick scan of this thread did not reveal perhaps the most major reason.

Baseball is a business.

If they could make money doing a true NBA minor league system, they would... same NFL.

Their problem?

The colleges and universities got too far of a head start. Same might've happened for baseball except that traditionally students don't choose to attend in the summer, so the opportunity was there for all of the small-town regional leagues to develop back-when.

[Rich the Giants fan]

Because Branch Rickey was a genius. The real question is why the NFL doesn't. The NBA actually does have a developmental league now and the NHL has had a minor league type of system for years.

[abolishthedh]

Major League Baseball owes the minor leagues as we know it to the genius of Branch Rickey and his network of Cardinal minor league teams in the 1920s and 1930s. He did this to compete with the East Coast, especially with New York I presume, and his influence continues to this day.

MLB owners saw the value in a minor league system, because these professional players would not be subjected to the NCAA's nonsense. This was understood decades ago by owners as a group. The NCAA has a far outdated set of standards and rules for basketball and football players. Because baseball takes a few years to learn at the major league level, the minors had a place. There was never a need to create an impression of scholar/athlete for the sake of baseball players. While it is still true that ballplayers need to move on and get real jobs more often than not, this fact was recognized and overcome by major league players since the start of professional baseball itself.

Meanwhile, basketball and football players rarely need a five or ten year learning curve to learn which niche to fill on a big league roster. By age 23 or so, college basketball and football players have reality thrust upon them by coaches, family, and even girlfriends, all of whom suggest finishing college.

It takes a while for a young player to give up the dream of major league baseball. A player may gradually become a contact hitter, learn to pitch, catch or learn to play the outfield, and especially when big bucks are still possible at ages 25-29 or so. The minors provide the venue for it.

Show me a 25 year old college basketball or football player and I'll show you a master at deception over his coaches and the media.

[Captain Cold Nose]

Major League Baseball owes the minor leagues as we know it to the genius of Branch Rickey and his network of Cardinal minor league teams in the 1920s and 1930s. He did this to compete with the East Coast, especially with New York I presume, and his influence continues to this day.

MLB owners saw the value in a minor league system, because these professional players would not be subjected to the NCAA's nonsense. This was understood decades ago by owners as a group. The NCAA has a far outdated set of standards and rules for basketball and football players. Because baseball takes a few years to learn at the major league level, the minors had a place. There was never a need to create an impression of scholar/athlete for the sake of baseball players. While it is still true that ballplayers need to move on and get real jobs more often than not, this fact was recognized and overcome by major league players since the start of professional baseball itself.

Meanwhile, basketball and football players rarely need a five or ten year learning curve to learn which niche to fill on a big league roster. By age 23 or so, college basketball and football players have reality thrust upon them by coaches, family, and even girlfriends, all of whom suggest finishing college.

It takes a while for a young player to give up the dream of major league baseball. A player may gradually become a contact hitter, learn to pitch, catch or learn to play the outfield, and especially when big bucks are still possible at ages 25-29 or so. The minors provide the venue for it.

Show me a 25 year old college basketball or football player and I'll show you a master at deception over his coaches and the media.

Heisman Trophy winner Chris Weinke, who I think took time off from college to play you guessed it.

[davewashere]

The NFL and NBA both have competing professional leagues internationally who regularly grab talented players who weren't drafted in the United States. A player at the local college was projected to be picked in the final round of the NFL draft, but he wasn't and no team showed an interest in signing him after the draft and now he plays in the CFL, which has produced a fair share of NFL players through the years.

From the business side of things, I think minor league baseball has an advantage over other sports because the ballparks are relatively low-cost compared to basketball arenas and they can play a lot of games in a season. Football has a major disadvantage in that they can only play a dozen or so games a season due to the violent nature of the game, plus the rosters are generally huge compared to other sports, which means a lot of people on the payroll. I don't think people would pay significantly more for a minor league football game compared to a minor league baseball game, even though there are far fewer tickets available per season and even though they are willing to pay significantly more to see an NFL game compared to an MLB game. Minor league sports is all about getting people through the turnstiles and then making money off beer and food sales, and baseball has the competitive advantage because it can be played every day for 5 months straight.

[DownUnderDodger]

Nutt made the point about NCAA, which makes for a huge emphasis on both Football and Basketball in College, with huge amounts of money spent on players. It seems that Baseball is nowhere near as strong at College level. Therefore College level Football and Basketball are better prepared for the majors. Also MLB has a recruitment program in USA and various parts of the world for prospects as young as 15, who are signed at young ages and learn their skills through the minor leagues.

[redban]

In response to the OP, basketball and football do have a minor-league; it's the NCAA.

To the MJ comments....he was supposedly suspended for one-year for gambling. That was why he played baseball. Nobody even knows for sure but it is mentioned in the 30 for 30 "Jordan Rides the Bus". Michael quit in 1995 because they asked him to cross the picket lines and be a scab. MJ was a member of the NBPA previously and he opted not to cross because he wouldn't agree with it if the NBPA was on strike and the owners opted for replacement players.

They have baseball in the NCAA too. Why doesn't NCAA work as the minor leagues for MLB then?

[SteveJRogers]

They have baseball in the NCAA too. Why doesn't NCAA work as the minor leagues for MLB then?

First of all, do you really want baseball to be flooded with both the social off the field and on the field issues that have been associated with "leaving school early" or not even attending college to go the MLB right way?

I think it's the idea that being in the minors, even if you are a bonus baby, is kind of on the job training and getting you ready for the "real world" as much as playing Major League Baseball for a living can be considered real word!

Also, Minor League Baseball is such an intrinsic part of the professional sports landscape, and a popular one due to economic and fan friendly factors of going to a game, I'm sure no one wants to mess with the system by eliminating that need.

Yeah the NBA does have the Developmental League, I don't know what the NFL has now, but I think the lack of popularity of lesser level professional versions of the sport have something to do with it why it's not nearly automatic that new draftees are sent there.

Also, I'm sure the massive popularity (for whatever underlying *coughgamblingcough* reasons) of NCAA basketball and football have a hand in that as well. You saw that player on the national scale in the January Bowl season or during March Madness, now see them debut on the professional stage on the bright national TV stages of the NFL and NBA.

While, the college, or even HS player that is highly touted has to be SO UBER HYPED to the point of annoyance by the national media, just to get any attention for their final college/HS game, and their pro-debut.

Plus as I kind of hinted at on top, the minors are probably a safer place to "wash out" than the NBA and NFL are. While sure the baseball nerds will wisecrack at the Brien Taylors and Todd Van Poppels and even the Mets Generation Ks of the world, I'd guess it probably easier on them than the highly touted NFL or NBA flame outs.

[Rich the Giants fan]

Because Branch Rickey was a genius.

[Seels]

Jordan was 31 years old when he tried to play baseball after not playing baseball since high school. He hit .202 in AA. I thought that was very impressive. How many men could have only played high school baseball, then not play any baseball of any kind for over 13 years, then go to AA and hit .202? What if Jordan continued to play baseball in college what kind of player could he have been? We'll never know. Baseball is game that must be learned at a young age. It's not something that can be picked up later in life and expect to play at the professional level. Jordan's one season at AA was

127 G (497 PA) .202/.289/.266, 3 HR, 51 RBI, 46 R,17 doubles, 1 triple, 51 BB, 114 K, 30 SB, 18 CS

Again for someone that never played college baseball and didn't play any baseball for 13 years that is an impressive. Jordan was simply too old to learn baseball and be really good at it.

It's been reported by various people that Jordan was played soft against in the minors. People were trying to make him succeed and it wasn't happening (and really, a .550 ops is so terrible its nothing to gloat about).

[TonyK]

The first minor leagues began in 1877, one year after the National League formed, and six years after the first professional league, the National Association began (Note: Many historians believe the 1871 NA was the first major league).

Minor leagues struggled during the 19th Century as organizers had to deal with small attendances (games began at 3:30 PM, before most workers got out of work), the majors signing/stealing their best players, and how to formulate rules that would ensure competitive pennant races year after year. Most 19th Century minor leagues instituted team salary limits, but were almost powerless to control teams who exceeded the limits in order to sign "ringers" at the same salaries as major leaguers. One wealthy businessman would be pursuaded to pay the monthly salary of their ringer so nobody would know.

Gradually the minors organized into Classes A, B, C, and D, with the theory being the young local phenom would be signed by a Class C or D team and slowly work his way up the system, receiving pay increases in higher classes, and eventually making the majors. There was a wealth of young talent across the country and the minors served the purpose of aiding major league teams without a broad scouting system. A New York or Philadelphia ML team had little way of knowing how good a pitcher from Oshkosh was back in those days. One way to find out would be to telegram or write to a minor league manager (often a former MLer) and ask him for an opinion. ML teams were able to sign any player they wanted. The beginnings of the farm system began in the 1890's but was not widely approved of.

It wasn't perfect but I think they did a fantastic job building a brand-new system from scratch.

In 1902, the National Association of Professional Baseball Leagues organized these minor leagues into what they are now. I believe Branch Rickey helped devise the farm system.

[KevinWI]

Consequently, MLB drafts get no attention.

wut?

How did I miss this comment last year when I replied to this thread?

Have you missed all the attention that guys like Bryce Harper, Steven Strasburg and Matt Wieters got in the year of their draft?

[SteveJRogers]

wut?

How did I miss this comment last year when I replied to this thread?

Have you missed all the attention that guys like Bryce Harper, Steven Strasburg and Matt Wieters got in the year of their draft?

Pretty sure he means why isn't there a Mel Kiper Jr or Todd McShay and their NBA Draft equivalent on ESPN some time before the draft is even usually relevant to discuss.

There are no combines, there is no pre-draft workouts, no carving board press conferences for athletes declaring their intentions to leave early, etc.

[Second Base Coach]

To answer the title of the thread... enough people will attend a game to make it worth the while to charge admission to a scrimmage.

The NBA looks at the NCAA for similar service.

The NFL has the same built in advantage. Big time coverage they don't have to pay for.

Minor League Hockey is all over the place. Die hard fans will tell you how the hierarchy works. There are also independent leagues.

Baseball is at a huge disadvantage in one regard, and it has been addressed here already.

Nearly every player of consequence is between the ages of 25 and 32. So teams have a problem on both ends. College guys aren't good enough to be impact players right out of the gate, and just when you got a guy playing well for you, he hits 30 and begins to fall apart. The need to replace that player is clearly evident. Remember most baseball players only play for about three years, and that is in their late 20s when they finally have the timing and skills.

So a training system was put in place, and because minor league baseball is exactly like major league baseball (the Majors just have more good players), we can charge admission. People love the game just enough to make it profitable for nearly every team.

Also part of it was the fact that there used to be a time when there was no Major League Baseball West of St. Louis. So the Pacific Coast League was just one example of how minor league baseball filled the need folks had for that kind of entertainment.

So we have "tradition" and "training". That about covers it.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

To answer the title of the thread... enough people will attend a game to make it worth the while to charge admission to a scrimmage.

The NBA looks at the NCAA for similar service.

The NFL has the same built in advantage. Big time coverage they don't have to pay for.

Minor League Hockey is all over the place. Die hard fans will tell you how the hierarchy works. There are also independent leagues.

Baseball is at a huge disadvantage in one regard, and it has been addressed here already.

Nearly every player of consequence is between the ages of 25 and 32. So teams have a problem on both ends. College guys aren't good enough to be impact players right out of the gate, and just when you got a guy playing well for you, he hits 30 and begins to fall apart. The need to replace that player is clearly evident. Remember most baseball players only play for about three years, and that is in their late 20s when they finally have the timing and skills.

So a training system was put in place, and because minor league baseball is exactly like major league baseball (the Majors just have more good players), we can charge admission. People love the game just enough to make it profitable for nearly every team.

Also part of it was the fact that there used to be a time when there was no Major League Baseball West of St. Louis. So the Pacific Coast League was just one example of how minor league baseball filled the need folks had for that kind of entertainment.

So we have "tradition" and "training". That about covers it.

More to it, I think the answer is more difficult to just jump into MLB than it is to go from college to the pros in basketball and football, they do it all the time.

[Grandslam2012]

Baseball's a national game too. Lots of people trying to become great players. Also, not everyone is within traveling distance to an MLB team so the option with having Minor League teams around the country means that people will still pay to watch baseball games. This makes Minor League teams feasible, plus it gives those players the opportunity to develop which has already been discussed in this thread.

[leagueleader]

They have baseball in the NCAA too. Why doesn't NCAA work as the minor leagues for MLB then?

Baseball needed a minor league system because its been a major sport for 100 years while Pro Football & Pro Basketball became popular in the late 50's and therefore were able to use college ball as there own talent resource. From say 1910 thru 1955 most of the baseball players never went to college and were found by recruiters from town teams or company teams or major league tryouts given a few bucks and sent right to the minors.

Some of the minor league teams especially in the Pacific Coast league had attendence better than some major league clubs and were very well run and successful. Probably the greatest lefthanded pitcher of all time Lefty Grove was actually owned by the Baltimore team of the International League
and the owner of Baltimore refused to sell Grove to the majors until he was 25 years old taking 4 years off Groves major league stats.
As I said few players had no interest nor the money to go to college and it was a more rural society in America when Pro Baseball was the only game in town.